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thank you [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always as a man that knows that fishing ain't what it used to be here is
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the captain yeah ever since that SOB stole my boat is going to be seen it's good to see you
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thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] Magnolia is done right by our friends at
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the brewery this is an imperial stout aged and bourbon barrels with bananas Madagascar vanilla beans and Nilla
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wafers added you came looking for a killer and we brought the Nilla garage grade a solid five out of five bottle
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caps and let's give some praise and thank you to our friends for helping us out here in the garage first up a cheers
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to Jerry and Memphis Tennessee a shout out to Tony in San Antonio Texas and a long distance cheers goes out to Bryce
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and Coquitlam British Columbia and a big we like your trip to Kristen in St Paul
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Minnesota here's a big Southern cheers that we're sending to Julie and Leander Texas and last but certainly not least
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we have Jake listening in Los Angeles California we want to thank everybody that helped us out with this week's beer
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fun because without all of you we would just be two thirsty guys sitting in a garage that's right we would be super
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thirsty so thanks for helping out with the bwr-u-n beer run and if you need more
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True Crime garage and I know you do I know you're looking for it underneath your bed underneath your closet
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underneath that pile of dirty clothes pick those up and do some laundry because you stink my friend you need to
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get off the record on Stitcher premium and if you don't we can't be friends I can't drink any more of your mother's
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lemonade and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's
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talk some true crime foreign [Music] when we were wrapping up yesterday's episode Captain we started talking about
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possible Persons of Interest or at least people that the police told the public they were looking for people that they
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wanted to interview and this came in the form of some names as well as descriptions of unknown individuals
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we need to start diving into some of these people that they were talking about at the top of today's show one of the
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individuals that they were looking for was a 23 year old convicted sex offender who later would be known as a person of
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interest in this case and his name is Lee Allen Wu 23 years old convicted sex offender now they
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have not specifically announced or addressed any direct connection between this Lee Allen Wu and lyanna Warner
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however they said that he became a person of interest one because of his criminal background and two because he
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stole a vehicle on the same day that lyanna disappeared and operated that vehicle with a expired license or
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invalid license at the time of course when you have somebody with a criminal background and it is a sex
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offense you have a little girl who goes missing a guy that's known to be in the area and he steals a vehicle on that day
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and chooses to break other laws you want to know as an investigator why why on this day did you feel the need to steal
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a vehicle and operate illegally operate a vehicle authorities also ask for help in locating John Bartell who they said
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was not a suspect all we know about him is that police said that he was known to
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travel between Chisholm and the Twin Cities they were also looking for a Bruce William Christensen of Hibbing
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Minnesota he was not a suspect but could have Vital Information in the case Bruce
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Christensen had 17 criminal cases filed against him between the years of 1997 and 2006 so a busy guy he eventually
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went to prison for robbery where he beat a fellow inmate to death with a piece of
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railing that he broke off in order to use as a weapon he was sentenced to an additional 30 years for that murder an
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article about his sentencing says that in September of 2003 he pled guilty to making terrorist threats against Kailyn
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Warner very interesting sounds like a piece of 2003 September he pled guilty to making terrorist threats against the
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mother of lyanna Warner Christensen apparently blamed Kailyn for the police interest in him in lyanna's case and
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threatened to shoot her we don't know if there was any direct connection between
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Kailyn Warner and this guy but he attempted to attack a prosecutor in court and was subject to several mental
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health evaluations around the same time yeah a real piece of [ __ ] so it sounds
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to me Captain like when police ask you that horrible question that that nobody wants to be asked do you know anybody
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that would want to harm your family or hurt your child or would have any reason to do something against your family
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I don't know this to be the case but I'm wondering if this man for whatever reason was somebody that was named by
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the family because it seems like he wanted revenge or to retaliate against the Warner
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Family specifically Kalin uh for the police interest in him yeah but it shows you the reason why they're looking at
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you because you go on to threaten the mother it's like look if you had nothing to do with it it's like look I'm I'm
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willing to cooperate I'm willing to answer your questions I had nothing to do with this yeah he's
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definitely a violent man at the end of the day no doubt about that Sean burtek who we referenced in yesterday's episode
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was arrested on July 10th bertek was arrested on outstanding warrants rather than anything to do with Leanna Warner's
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case but he was one of the individuals that they named at that press conference as having an interest in speaking with
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but while police did confirm that bertek was a convicted sex offender they said that after interviewing him he was being
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considered more of a witness than a suspect we see that in a lot of cases when somebody goes missing or or there's
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possibly a crime within the area they do the old pedo Roundup they realize some of these
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guys are not registered correctly some of these guys have warrants and they make a rest and so there's a
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lot of arrests that are that have nothing to do with The Disappearance but that's just a byproduct of of this girl
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going missing right on these are issuing and um carrying out outstanding warrants
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on this guy and then after you speak with him you you can tell that he was in the area and you
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could probably back up what he was doing in his whereabouts during that time so he like anybody else in that
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neighborhood or that that general area would be now witness status of course in any missing child case investigators
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would not be doing their job if they did not take a hard look at those with the easiest access to the missing child and
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of course we're talking about the family authorities said fairly quickly that they were comfortable with what the
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family was telling them that lyanna disappeared while away from home and they had nothing to do with it in fact
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they don't seem to have suspected the parents at all or if they did it was very brief and behind the scenes reports
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indicate that the Warners were not asked to take polygraphs as you pointed out Captain but the fact is Kailyn Warner
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was one of the last people to see Leanna lyanna could have returned home after finding the the quirks were out putting
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her home by 5 20 or so if that were the case then what happened her mother didn't call police until 8 48 pm and we
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know that based off of the phone records and everybody else involved in this case
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so what do we know about the Warners the media covering the case revealed that Kailyn and Chris had been married before
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and there was some indication of turmoil in at least one of their relationships the year before lyanna was born in 1998
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Chris Warner and his ex-wife got into a violent confrontation involving blows both sought Mutual restraining orders
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and Chris's ex maintaining that he had an uncontrollable temper Chris's petition for a restraining order stated
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that his ex-wife had threatened Kailyn and her two daughters from a her previous marriage
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authorities looked at the situation but said that the incident with the ex-wife quote didn't raise any red flags now we
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don't know how thoroughly they looked into the ex-wife but we I would say that raises some Flags yeah and you should
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look into it but again if she has a solid another by then maybe that's why they moved on well and it sounds like a
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lot of this a lot of these issues between him and his ex by then they may have buried the hatchet right because
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the the the confrontation the violent confrontation between the two occurred in 1998. Leanna Warner didn't go missing
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until 2003. Chris Warner was a heavy equipment mechanic at a nearby employer as well as
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a volunteer for the ambulance service he shared a son Anthony Warner with his ex-wife Kalyn was a manager at easy stop
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a convenience store in Chisholm there is another weird story involving lyanna and
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the Warners that came out and again investigators dismissed it as amounting to nothing but it is a little
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strange according to the Warners and this is the Warner's telling us this story someone reported to Social
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Services that Leanna had been tied up the Warners told the social worker investigating the complaint that Leanna
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was playing with neighborhood kids and they have been playing maypole and had used lyanna as the maypole while they
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wrapped a jump rope around her it's hard to know whether Social Services dismissed this as a simple child's game
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or Child's Play or whether there was a file opened on the Warners this is one of those situations where it's like you
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can understand if there was a misunderstanding but you also go okay well it's hard to believe that somebody
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would bother to report this incident if they didn't feel that there was really something here it also seems captain
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that we're sitting here 18 years later and if this was a red flag if this was something that we should really question
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call into question the people investigating The Disappearance and and the possible suspects are not dummies
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this is not something that slips past the goalie here this is something that would be at the top of the stack as far
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as information goes on the parents and something they would have looked at and something they would have questioned
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both Chris and Kailyn about all right so we have this issue of questions some of
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the behavior question letting the child go off on her own I think that's all fair game so you have to wonder could
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the parents have some responsibility here do they know what happened to their daughter is one guilty and not the other
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all kinds of questions immediately pop up when you see these types of cases I feel pretty confident but it's just a
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guess and it's just a gut feeling that that I don't see the parents having any involvement
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in The Disappearance of this little girl the only involvement I see is people that were desperate to find
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her and went to every effort that they possibly could if somebody told them that they hear something that could help
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your case or help you find your daughter they did it they didn't hold back well and also with Christopher being a
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volunteer EMT worker a volunteer EMT worker that if there was some accident they wouldn't try to cover it up they
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would call call Squad and and try to get our help immediately here's a couple things that I want to
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point out to people too and it doesn't seem like the general public consider the parents to be suspects either and I
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think that anybody that really takes a good hard look at this case what you're going to see is a couple things it looks
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to me that Chris was gone during the time in question and an ambulance run at 6 20
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p.m that's a pretty Ironclad Alibi as far as I'm concerned there's going to be other individuals there there's going to
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be documentation of this so on and so forth that's pretty straightforward to me now we can call into question
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kaelin's decision making as a parent we can call in a question the wiggle room in the timeline that the sheriff
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referenced the other thing too you know we're quick to point out hey eyewitnesses are not always great about
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giving you an exact time on something because they're not sitting there noting everything that happened that day and
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noting what time that they witness something right so with her having this moving time of win
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Leanna left her site it could be just that exact same situation she said that we just got back
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from the lake I was busy unloading the car bringing in stuff that we purchased at these garage sales and the kids
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badgering me about wanting to go to her friend's house I really didn't want her to go there
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and I told her she could go well what time was that well I don't know it was after we got home from the lake right
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well that's when that's when sometimes you can arrive at the wrong time by the encouragement of law enforcement because
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incur they're encouraging you because they're telling you look I understand you weren't looking at the clock I need
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you to Ballpark this thing for me or at least give me a guess I need something a
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starting point and she may have given a bad time we were talking about a mother who's
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busy the reason why I think that law enforcement did not consider them suspects and didn't consider them
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suspects early on is the window of time to do something to this little girl dispose and conceal
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that crime takes time and effort and I think that when they really broke down the timeline and the people that
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were seeing the parents interacting with the parents and the what the eyewitness
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statements were that saw the little girl at 5 15 did not give a window of time that anybody could have done anything
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and covered it up and we don't know what kind of searches that law enforcement did on their vehicles
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and so if if you have cadaver dogs sniff the vehicles if you run some tests on the vehicles you're going to go well we
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we don't believe she was transported well in nine times out of ten hopefully it should be 10 out of 10. this is
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pretty standard police protocol but if you are responding to a call about a missing child the first thing you ask
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the parents of course you want to know what were they wearing when we did last see them but one of the first actions
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that you actually take Beyond asking questions of the parents or any person that may have seen the child is
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ma'am we understand that your daughter's missing we're going to search the neighborhood we're going to ask you know
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we're going to search the area we need to search your home first and that happens in in every case that
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I've ever reviewed that is the first action that seems to be taken when police are responding to that type of
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call and I have no reason to believe that that did not happen here and that also could be backing the thoughts of
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law enforcement that these people didn't have anything to do with it I also want
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to point out one big problem with the parents being guilty of anything or or uh Kalyn being
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guilty of having done anything they weren't the Kalyn wasn't the only person home that day remember her the daughter
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the other daughter was with them for the entirety of that day she was 10 years old at that time now she's not an adult
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obviously but she's also not a little kid if something bad happened she could tell us about that and the 10 year old
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daughter was active in the neighborhood search for Leanna almost immediately yeah it'd be hard to one convince her
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that you have you have to lie for Mommy and two that should be able have the capability to put on a great acting show
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for the public right and the other thing too is both Kailyn the daughter that was
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10 years old at the time and Chris Warner have remained active in front of the media on this case for 18 years
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so this ten-year-old daughter is now an adult and she continues to do interviews
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about this case so it again there doesn't seem to be time for anything to happen involving Kalin
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well two kind of creepy things and like you said when they when they when law enforcement shows up at the
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scene they go hey let's search the house but they also start asking the parents like did anything weird happen in the
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last month or so has there been a vehicle that's been seen in the neighborhood has have you seen some
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uh creepy character walking around one of the things that they said was well she one night when we went into Leanne's
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room she was sleeping in her closet because she was afraid that the monsters outside her window were gonna get hurt
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yeah that's a very curious situation to this whole story and unfortunately this happens
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daily where a child is afraid of something and we don't know exactly what it is as a parent and most of the time
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it's almost always it's nothing here it's something we really call into question
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because of the state of this case where we have a little girl who disappears and
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we can't find any trace of her but like you said a child being afraid of the monsters under her bed or monsters under
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her closet you hear that more than you hear monsters outside my window right and in this situation you do have
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the parents who would be later telling us that they thought that lyanna was behaving oddly
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in the days or maybe even weeks leading up to her disappearance which is very interesting to me and we'll dive
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into that some more but while we're still talking about the parents you know I don't want to get accused of leaving
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anything out here because we do have a situation where a few months this was uh October after their daughter went
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missing we do have a violent altercation between the two parents Kalyn and Chris where apparently
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Kalyn attempted to run Chris over with their vehicle Almighty they had apparently they had some kind of
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disagreement earlier that day or earlier that night to which police responded to
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their home and settled the matter whatever it was at the time and then within an hour or so this argument is
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now taking place in their vehicle as they're driving to which a very frustrated Chris Warner gets out of the
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vehicle and says that he would be walking the rest of the way home I'm sure he probably said it in in a
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different manner but uh Kalyn hit the gas pedal and and took off after him in the vehicle and he jumped out of
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the way he received some scrapes maybe a couple bruises but uh what happened was
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Kailyn ended up being charged with a a misdemeanor in that case but the police have been extremely vocal about that
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situation saying look we spoke with the couple before this happened and we spoke
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with them obviously afterwards and we have Kalyn who she says that the gears got jammed up and and she kind of lost
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control of the vehicle so she denies the saying that you know she denies that she
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attempted to hit her husband with the vehicle regardless of what actually happened we
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had the police saying this matter and lyanna's disappearance are not connected they are two completely separate matters
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the couple was fighting they were arguing but they were not arguing about lyanna or anything about the case
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and look I'm not going to lie to you Captain this seemed very troubling to me because what it shows is
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angry impulsive behavior especially on kalin's behalf which we know that she her own word well she's the one that if
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if if she's lying if the gears didn't get stuck if she didn't lose control of the car and she did try to hit her
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husband with the car that's the violence getting out of a vehicle and saying I'm
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gonna walk home is not a violent act at all but what we have here is we have a person who is
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admittedly the last person the last family member to see lyanna so that really made me call a lot of things into
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question but then I found this little tidbit here that made me feel completely different
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and go back to what my gut was telling me in the beginning that Kailyn and the family has nothing to do with this this
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comes from Patty wetterling whose son Jacob disappeared in 1989 and when at the time when she is quoted in
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this article this is 2003 so keep in mind Jacob disappeared in 1989 and by this point in the article he had never
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been found they didn't know what happened to him they knew he was abducted she says in this article
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that she's would like to discourage anyone from making a judgment about the Warners because of this particular
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incident she says quote nobody knows what it's like to have your child missing for this
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long people always ask me did it bring us closer together and I say no it's just the opposite
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Jerry who is her husband Jerry and I went through some very hard times with so much anger frustration and anxiety
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it's absolutely the biggest test you ever go through as a couple it's a nightmare now we know that the
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wetterlings have nothing to do with what happened to their son Jacob they were victimized just
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like everybody else in that situation and I think that what what we have Patty wetterling telling us here
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is very interesting to me because this is the way that I've always kind of seen these types of situations right
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if in the wetterling case it was the father that decided yeah you guys can ride your bikes down to the
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video store and pick up a video this was after Mom said no you can't you cannot tell me that there are not
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arguments between Mom and Dad over who's responsible who wasn't a good parent who didn't do their job if he was
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in my care this would have never have happened because you get sad your your heart
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breaks and then you get angry those are natural feelings and I have to believe in lyanna's case
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something very similar very likely happened where you get in a disagreement about this that or the other thing but
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your heart is broken and you're hurting and you want somebody to lash out to and
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it might be easy to go you know what Mom you told her she could walk down there why the hell would you let a
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five-year-old walk down there by herself if she were with me that day this would
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never have happened and you can't tell me that that woman's not going to defend her self as a mother
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so I can see this playing out exactly how it did and have nothing to do with the case and not suggest that they are
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guilty of anything other than being grieving parents that are hurting and heartbroken all right just to put a bow
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on this here Captain regarding this situation we need to point out that Chris Warner stood by his wife telling
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the media that Kalyn was on edge and had reached a breaking point he blamed this
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on a Montel Williams show that the two recently taped but it had not aired yet at this point now on the show the
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psychic Sylvia Brown told the Warners that Leanna was murdered and buried in a shallow grave not far from their home
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Chris Warner says they didn't know that that's what was going to happen during the taping of the show they didn't know
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that somebody was going to tell them that they thought she was murdered and buried near their home remember at this
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point we're just months into the case and they're still holding out hope that their daughter is a live
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and I think they felt like they were blindsided by this and they said that they left the taping feeling used and
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upset by The Montel Williams show and that this was something that that created an issue between the two of the
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parents and it was it was just not good I mean this was they kind of felt like we're down and you're gonna kick us
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while we're down so I think one can see quickly how these types of things can happen
00:27:18
foreign [Music] to the windows to the wall cheers everybody cheers everybody on September 15 2003 this is three months
00:27:57
after lyanna disappeared news reports began to surface about an interesting development a man named Matthew James
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Curtis age 24 had been questioned multiple times in connection with lyanna's case police talked to him the
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day after lyanna vanished and again four days later questions included police asking about
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his whereabouts and when lyanna was last seen Curtis lived at a house near the Warners
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in the neighborhood in fact just a couple of houses down at the time that Leanna went missing according to the
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news article in the Virginia MN paper police spoke with Curtis in the course of the investigation into lyanna
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presumably because he was such a close neighbor whatever they learned during these interviews was enough for them to
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get a warrant to search his home and when they went out to carry out this search warrant there they found Kitty
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porn on his computer so Curtis was arrested charged and released on bail on September 17th Curtis was found dead of
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an apparent suicide three men were practicing archery in a gravel pit area on National Forest land
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and found Curtis's body this is about eight miles from his home right he was found with a plastic bag tied over his
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head and the cause of death after an autopsy was declared to be self-inflicted asphyxiation the sheriffs
00:29:35
Department said it was investigating to see whether there was any connection between the two cases and said that
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Curtis had never been declared an official suspect but had never been cleared either
00:29:47
on the day Curtis's body was found he was out on bail and was scheduled to appear in court for that child poured
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charge but he failed to appear he killed himself before the court appointment the
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sheriff's department searched the Gravel Pit in Curtis's home twice but found no
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signs of lyanna what we don't know is what turned police on to Curtis in the first place what was
00:30:11
the basis for that search warrant well at the time that lyanna went missing there was a man that some people say
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maybe was in his 30s was walking around the neighborhood uh described as approximately 5-10
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to six foot and had some kind of dark tattoo so I always wondered there was like I said people in the area
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saying that there was this suspicious guy walking the neighborhood did they connect that back to Curtis I
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guess that could be a possibility but that statement from police when they're looking for the person of that
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description comes it's made public after the suicide now after they requested the
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search warrant for his home so what's difficult here is we know based off of what the police are telling
00:31:04
us that they spoke with this Curtis character the day after lyanna went missing and then again four days later
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okay so some so we can just assume that something within that questioning made him go something's not right here that's
00:31:18
what I'm thinking Captain I agree with that one something during the course of them stepping foot into his home or
00:31:24
standing on his front doorstep and asking him questions told them this guy his home is of interest to us
00:31:32
specifically in this lyanna case and that could be something as simple as this guy seemed extremely nervous
00:31:42
when we were asking him that day after that she was missing right or he couldn't tell us where he was or had no
00:31:49
alibi or he was sweating profusely or he told us something on day one and then told us something different on day four
00:31:56
it could really be any number of things but the thing that's crazy here is that when they do get that search warrant
00:32:03
they search his home they filed child pornography on his computer well that doesn't look very good
00:32:09
especially when this dude lives just a few doors down from the Warners yeah I never like it when there's a suicide no
00:32:17
in the sense of we don't have answers then and my gut always goes towards this suspect you commit suicide you're
00:32:29
you're so distraught about what you did you can't even live with yourself and suicide is not a obvious sign of
00:32:38
guilt doesn't necessarily mean that he felt guilty or or did something to Leanna I mean really he could have
00:32:44
killed himself for any number of reasons and he's not around to tell us why he did so we do have the Warners lyanna's
00:32:52
parents who say Hey you know we saw this guy around the neighborhood but never saw lyanna interacting with him and we
00:33:00
didn't personally know him I do know that police continue to look into Curtis post-mortem
00:33:07
they did admit shamefully admitted that it would have been desirable for them to
00:33:13
have talked to him some more which possibly they they were going to do that after he was charged or convicted we
00:33:19
don't know but of course now they will never get the chance to do so we do know that the Minnesota BCA confiscated
00:33:29
Matthew James Curtis's truck after he killed himself and processed it for forensic evidence of lyanna's presence
00:33:38
to see if you know they could find any proof that she had ever been inside his vehicle right this did include DNA and
00:33:45
fingerprints and fibers and hairs they couldn't find any trace of lyanna having ever been in that truck but we do need
00:33:52
to point out this was after Matthew James Curtis's death which took place in September Leanne Warner went missing
00:34:01
the 14th of June so there would have been plenty of time for one to clean this vehicle if one needed to do so well
00:34:10
like I was saying to me when there's a suicide in the case you're gonna take like the Amy mihalovic case when there's
00:34:16
a suspect that takes their own life my gut points to that that suspect but here is a different case because he's found
00:34:26
because when they're investigating this missing girl case they find this individual we don't know what led them
00:34:34
I'm guessing like we were talking about before when they're interviewing him he says
00:34:41
something not correctly or maybe just acts strangely and then when they when they do get the search warrant they find
00:34:49
child pornography and that could be enough for this individual to say hey look my life's not going right I maybe
00:34:56
have this I'm a sick individual for looking at this stuff I have these urges that I'm trying to control and and
00:35:03
that's why he took his life so there are types out there that have these fantasies urges whatever you want to
00:35:11
call them desires and they never act on them I mean we just don't know again it's a
00:35:18
situation I'm with you Captain it's you hate this suicides one uh for any you know you hate the suicide for
00:35:26
a million different reasons but one of the big reasons especially in this case is that it creates another mystery in
00:35:33
this case it creates one less person to talk to and in my opinion this guy in in
00:35:40
the humble go garage opinion here Captain this Matthew James Curtis guy I would put him in the top three of
00:35:49
suspects in this case now that's going to lead us to another top three suspect and this is an individual that I despise
00:36:00
one of the most hated men on the planet as far as my mind goes that's not a nice
00:36:05
way to talk about me this is a guy that we've spoke about several times here in the garage and I never enjoy talking
00:36:12
about him I'm talking about Joseph Edward Duncan III so we're going to jump ahead two years in this case to July of
00:36:20
2005. now of course lyanna's case is continuing to be worked at this time but meanwhile in Coeur d'Alene Idaho
00:36:27
investigators captured suspected murderer and sex offender Joseph E Duncan he was charged with the Abduction
00:36:36
of eight-year-old Shasta groney and suspected of murdering shasta's 13 year old brother Mother boyfriend and missing
00:36:46
nine-year-old brother Dylan now you may remember for the long time listeners joining us here in the garage today you
00:36:53
may recall that we covered this case in our fifth nail episodes the fifth nail was a blah log basically an online rant
00:37:02
written by Joseph Duncan in which he published his rambling fantasies and dark thoughts he also talked about his
00:37:09
love for computers you may also recall that Duncan served time in prison for the rape of a 14 year old Tacoma
00:37:17
Washington boy when Duncan was just 16 years old himself he was released in 2000 so how does Duncan's case possibly
00:37:25
tie into lyanna's case Chief Erickson said that Federal investigators were tracing Joseph
00:37:32
Duncan's movements over the past few years because of a posting on his fifth nail blog that appeared on January 4th
00:37:40
2004. in fact this post was the first of the fifth nail blog Duncan wrote that learning about lyanna's case was quote
00:37:50
the proverbial last straw that led him to start his blog to rant about the stigma of being a convicted sex offender
00:37:58
yeah because that's what we want to hear about he does not mention lyanna by name
00:38:03
and it seems that he felt the need to construct an alibi for the time that lyanna went missing the exact words of
00:38:12
the posts were quote just found out that a five-year-old girl went missing from Chisholm Minnesota on June 14 2003. I
00:38:21
did not even know until today this happened so I have tried to figure out what I was doing that day a since I'm
00:38:28
always afraid of getting accused when something like this happens end quote the post said that Duncan wanted to be
00:38:35
sure that he figured out his whereabouts in June of 2003 when lyanna vanished so
00:38:39
that he wouldn't be accused of being the one that abducted her he says he was doing this for his own safety and wrote
00:38:46
I figure it is just a matter of time before I am falsely accused of some crime or another well yes you will be
00:38:55
accused I don't know if it will be falsely in several different cases we know Captain just for the people that
00:39:03
didn't listen to the fifth nail he was convicted of all those crimes he was accused of or thought to have done this
00:39:09
guy has a dirt bag he's an animal he basically murdered a whole family so he could abduct the two youngest children
00:39:15
and he had those kids with him for a long period of time where he tormented and tortured the kids you know
00:39:23
thankfully one of them was found alive and is still alive and doing well to this day all these years later another
00:39:31
thing to be thankful about is they were able to tie Joseph Duncan to some other homicides and I suspect he's probably
00:39:38
done others that we are unaware of Duncan was not the type to admit to any of his crimes he was the type that won
00:39:47
he would like to play games mind games and torment and tease the police and the public in the media and I think that was
00:39:56
a big part of the reason why he created his blog so he could do that from behind
00:40:00
Prison Walls the other thing too is that when you did finally convict him of something he would go out of his way to
00:40:08
explain to the public that the victims were not so innocent themselves that they had some blame in this and he
00:40:15
blamed some of the victims that he killed for their own deaths which is just completely bizarre in demonic
00:40:24
behavior in my opinion thankfully we can sit here in the the garage today and raise a glass real high because Joseph
00:40:31
Duncan passed away last year and I hope he enjoyed every minute of it now Chief Erickson stated in this case that there
00:40:40
was nothing specific tying Duncan to lyanna but did say it's very suspicious that he brought the case up on his blog
00:40:47
in fact if we are to believe Joseph Duncan he says that the case is what started the whole blog to begin with
00:40:54
blog more like clog I again Duncan's a hard guy to get to put your finger on I don't know if he would do this as
00:41:03
something just simply to taunt I'm never putting my finger on him police or lyanna's family
00:41:10
I also don't think that he's above enjoying being suspected of crimes he didn't commit yeah it's attention
00:41:17
seeking exactly yeah you're exactly well looks like you just put your finger on him I told you I'm not going to touch
00:41:24
that son of a [ __ ] Duncan says that he according to his records that he was able to figure out what he claims to
00:41:32
have been doing that day was watching some co-workers parachute and that he did some shopping but could not find any
00:41:40
receipts which makes sense he's locked up anyway Duncan did live in Fargo North Dakota and was when he was arrested on
00:41:49
the grony case but he was wanted on child molestation charges stemming from an incident in Detroit Lakes Minnesota
00:41:56
in 2004. now Fargo North Dakota is much closer to Detroit Lakes Minnesota than it is to Chisholm Minnesota and in fact
00:42:04
much closer to Detroit Lakes than Detroit Lakes is to Chisholm Minnesota if that makes sense uh Duncan was
00:42:12
arrested for molesting a six-year-old boy on a playground in Detroit Lakes which is about a three-hour drive from
00:42:20
Chisholm Minnesota now I do want to point out the other crimes that he did he would have had to drive a long
00:42:27
distance to do so so I can't I cannot completely just go all right he he says he was doing this
00:42:36
on that day and the distance between him and where this disappearance took place
00:42:42
I don't think any of that rules him out in fact there was uh one person who's done some good gangbusters work here and
00:42:50
online an online sleuthor that posted that a treasure hunt winner found a treasure hunt winner log of a
00:42:59
camping and scuba trip putting Joseph Duncan in Crosby Minnesota in August of 2003. so this is interesting it's it's
00:43:09
not you know it would be weeks away from The Disappearance but it puts him much closer in proximity to Chisholm
00:43:18
Minnesota and it lists jet Duncan on this treasure hunt winner log Joseph Duncan called himself jet Duncan he won
00:43:29
a snorkel mask in defogger in that contest by July 21st of 2005 investigators stated publicly that they had cleared
00:43:40
Duncan of any possible involvement in lyanna's disappearance I have no idea how or why they reached this conclusion
00:43:48
the best that I can think of Captain they we know that investigators seized video footage
00:43:55
that Duncan took the day of his co-worker skydiving so there that's not in question he he was there and
00:44:03
witnessed these people skydiving at some point the timestamp shows that they were
00:44:08
diving in the afternoon the airport where the dive took place is about a four-hour drive from Chisholm
00:44:15
I would like to see that exact time stamp I would like to interview those people his co-workers can we determine
00:44:24
100 percent that he was where he was when that time stamp says could he have altered that time stamp in any manner
00:44:31
right those are just the the questions that I have again he's such a horrible and despicable person I think if he's
00:44:39
talking about a case and he's putting himself on your radar you cannot remove him from your radar
00:44:47
until you need definitive proof yeah because like we said this guy's a animal he's very capable of abducting a child
00:44:57
that would that's actually low on his list of what he's capable of you almost need the word of God to tell you that he
00:45:03
did not do this for for me to remove him he's I I'd like to move on from him now
00:45:09
because I'm just sick of thinking about him if that's okay with you Captain well
00:45:12
here they go because this is going to bring us to another story and probably the strangest
00:45:19
portion of this case in my mind this this actually gives me nightmares in 2006 some more information came to light
00:45:30
and this was not news to the family this news is going to come from the family because they say this is actually
00:45:38
something that they discussed with investigators but the investigators didn't seem to
00:45:44
agree with them that this was an interesting Avenue to investigate the family decided at some point well you
00:45:51
know what we're just going to tell the public about this we've told investigators about this
00:45:56
nope you know I don't know if they have done stuff the investigators I don't know if they did anything with this
00:46:01
information or not they've never referenced it but the parents say that the investigators did not seem
00:46:06
interested in this information so now we're going to put it out to the public and tell the world Chris and Kailyn
00:46:12
Warner went on the Maury Povich Show this is October of 2006. and they decided that this information
00:46:21
was worth disclosing after three years of it being largely ignored or given no Credence by police Leanna they said one
00:46:30
day came home with a case filled with Barbie dolls and clothing for the Barbie dolls
00:46:37
but would only tell her parents that she that she had got them from a little old
00:46:43
lady furthermore a week before she vanished their little daughter had packed up a
00:46:49
suitcase and said she was going to go live with her new family at her new family's house this was around the same
00:46:56
time that she started sleeping in the closet telling her father that there were monsters outside of her window yeah
00:47:03
to come home and see your daughter playing with maybe a a doll right and saying somebody gave it to her
00:47:13
okay maybe a garage sale in the neighborhood Maybe she's playing with the doll at her
00:47:22
friend's house parents said hey just take this but when there's a doll and there's
00:47:27
a case filled with dolls and clothes multiple items and all she can say is it came from a little old lady that's
00:47:36
that's pretty creepy well yeah and let's go back to you know we referenced an online sleuth or
00:47:45
putting up some information about uh Duncan and his possible whereabouts you know in August of 2003
00:47:54
there was a person a woman who posted on tapeatox website under the Leanna Warner
00:48:01
discussion group that says that she was about 12 years old at the time when Leanna went missing and was a sitter a
00:48:09
regular sitter for Leanna she tells a story that once at the park with Leanna that Leanna had told her she
00:48:18
was going on a trip without her parents now again this is something that somebody's posting online I can't verify
00:48:25
that this person was an actual babysitter for Leanna I can't verify that this story took place it does seem
00:48:33
to line up with some information that lyanna's parents are saying that they said in 2006 so I found that to be
00:48:42
incredibly interesting the thing that this really reminds me of here Captain is is a case that we've discussed here
00:48:49
in the garage the Asia degree case out of North Carolina this is where Asia seems to have taken off on foot in
00:48:59
the middle of the night we don't know where she was going or why but she disappears we've never found any
00:49:07
trace of her the only thing that they found after she went missing was a strange photo of another little girl
00:49:14
and this photo's never been identified there's never been anybody that came forward that said oh I was that person
00:49:20
in the photo or I was the person that gave Aisha that photo right so to me that photo will always be tied to her
00:49:28
disappearance and the reason possible reason for her leaving her home that night and then in this case very same
00:49:36
situation right it's it seems very similar to me Captain where we have the parents telling the public you know
00:49:43
somebody gave our daughter all these Barbie dolls and all the clothing to go with these Barbie dolls we asked her
00:49:48
where she got him some little old lady gave them to her we've never that was in 2006 let me
00:49:55
check my calendar it's 2021. we've never had anybody come forward and say I was that person that gave her those dolls I
00:50:02
I you know they were used to be my daughters my kid had grown up I had him laying around I was going to throw them
00:50:08
out or I was going to put them up in a garage sale I saw the little kid gave them to her there's never been
00:50:14
anybody come forward and say or people come forward and say oh I know who gave them to her you know there's no
00:50:21
answer to this question well that's why it reminds me of the JonBenet Ramsey case because today JonBenet Ramsey goes
00:50:28
missing she is telling people that Santa Claus is coming to visit her after Christmas it's just one of those
00:50:36
weird stories where you're never going to get that out of your head why is this little girl playing with like you said
00:50:43
it's a collection of dolls and a collection of clothes for those dolls who was this little old lady did the
00:50:52
little old lady even exist because these individuals that abduct children and thank God it's such a rare crime but
00:51:00
even these individuals that groom children or molest them or try to groom them into some kind of Bizarro
00:51:09
relationship they're very manipulative they're very in tune to how to trick these kids it's
00:51:17
much easier for them if they can get and convince the kid to go along with whatever it is that the adult wants to
00:51:23
do willingly rather than Kicking and Screaming it doesn't have to be a little old lady I'm
00:51:29
I'm with you I want to know who the little old lady is but then I also wonder could it have been a 20-something
00:51:36
your old man or a 30-something year old man that says oh if anybody asks where you got these right you know I don't
00:51:44
want to have to come and take them from you if Mom and Dad or Mom finds out that
00:51:48
you got them from me you're gonna get in trouble right just tell them that you got them from a little old lady here's
00:51:54
the other thing that's interesting too to me we know that both of lyanna's parents came from they were they were
00:52:01
married before they were married to each other if I'm an outsider and I'm viewing
00:52:06
this situation or I have any idea of that oh you got you got brothers and sisters that have other families
00:52:14
well guess what little Leanna you have another family too just like your brothers and sisters you've just
00:52:21
not met them yet and here's a gift from one of your family members yeah but there's also sickos that want to
00:52:31
want to still children and raise them as their own yes they see this precious beautiful little girl on
00:52:39
the go I want her I want her to be mine and that's a equally possible I think Captain you and
00:52:49
I we stand in agreement here that these three scenarios are of the most interest
00:52:56
to us yeah I agree these individuals Joseph Edward Duncan who for no Rhyme or Reason decides to
00:53:04
discuss the case on his blog we certainly know the horror horrific acts that he is capable of right we have the
00:53:12
guy that lives just a couple doors down that's caught with child pornography in his home and he
00:53:21
during the course of questioning he goes from being a possible witness to somebody that police have such an
00:53:28
interest in that they get a search warrant to search his home and that's when they find the child pornography in
00:53:34
his house yeah and that is Matthew James Curtis and then this weird story about lyanna having another family or going to
00:53:44
live with her other family and receiving this gift from a quote-unquote little old lady is really bizarre stuff I think
00:53:53
those three things to me in this case where you have a lot of questionable behavior and a lot of Persons of
00:54:01
Interest and we've discussed a lot of those those three for me sit at the top of my list as far as The Disappearance
00:54:09
to Leanna Warner well and don't forget about the monsters outside her window that are going come take her away
00:54:16
lyanna's parents Chris and Kailyn have moved away from the home in Chisholm that Leanna lived in with them they say
00:54:24
that this decision was very hard for them and that they were worried that she might not be able to find them should
00:54:30
she return but it seems after 18 years of holding on to Hope on the basis of nothing reality has prevailed they still
00:54:39
leave the porch light on though cases like the solving of Jacob wetterling's abduction and the three Ohio women found
00:54:47
in Ariel Castro's basement continue to give them hope and the fact that no trace of lyanna was found in the
00:54:55
thorough and painstaking searches of a wide radius makes part of them believe that she was taken out of the area and
00:55:05
possibly could still be alive most likely Chris Warner believes that she may be a victim of a black market
00:55:13
abduction 2021 marks 18 years since lyanna vanished the now Chisholm police chief
00:55:21
believes that lyanna was abducted and investigators in law enforcement have said
00:55:27
the same thing within a week or so of the case they believe this is one of those rare cases
00:55:34
of stranger abduction they still consider this to be very much an open case but everyone is incredibly
00:55:42
frustrated because there seems to be nothing to go on in 2013 the national Center for missing and exploited
00:55:50
Children released an age progression picture of what Leanna might look like at the age of 15 and continues to issue
00:55:59
flyers and posters about Leanne Road [Music] safe [Music] as always we want to hear from you
00:56:30
on any of the episodes that we covered we want to hear your thoughts and opinions because we know you guys are no
00:56:37
dumb dumbs no dum dum heads here in the garage Colonel do we have any recommended reading uh yes we do Captain
00:56:45
a little recommended reading also maybe a little more of the recommended listening this week we are recommending
00:56:52
They Call Me baba buoy we're going to step outside of True Crime and have a little fun this is for anyone that's a
00:57:00
Howard Stern fan I highly recommend the audio version of They Call Me baba buoy by the great Gary delabate you can find
00:57:10
that recommendation as well as many others on our website True Crime garage.com some say it's the best book ever written
00:57:20
some say that and until next week be good be kind and don't litter [Music] foreign
00:57:54
[Music]