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[Music] [Music] you [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:01:15
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that is begging David
00:01:19
Fincher to please please do something with mind Hunter here is the C at least give me season number three it's good to
00:01:27
be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling me [Music] friend in the old garage fridge we still
00:01:38
have some kulch some castaline kulch this West German style ale is light with a hint of lemon very refreshing and a 3
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with this week's shows first up a big cheers to Kristen Dey from Toledo Ohio and a big we love Ohio shout out goes to
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everybody we just mentioned they went to True Crime garage.com and contributed to
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click on the store Page all of our old items they're on sale plus we have two brand new hat designs and they're going
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quick so make sure you get one before they're gone and Colonel that's enough of the business a tip of the old True
00:02:42
Crime garage hat to you all gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:02:50
[Music] cry [Music] detective Jeff Felton worked this case from day one from minute one we talked
00:03:17
about him a couple of times on episode one he said many times that he brought this case home with him staring at the
00:03:26
case File all night long looking at it from all sort of different angles he and his colleagues conducted canvases
00:03:36
interviews and even publicity campaigns for this unsolved murder case now early on Maggie Britney's mother expressed
00:03:45
great satisfaction with this investigation she even posted on her blog quote I am lucky our detectives
00:03:51
followed the typical profile someone she knew old boyfriends all males who had contact public service
00:04:00
or might have had her address end quote of course they had to look at classmates
00:04:06
like you talked about in part one Captain co-workers former co-workers men who lived in the apartment complex and
00:04:14
so on so this is not an easy task this is not something that you're going to be able to do in over the course of a day
00:04:21
or a week this is a huge task by about a year out about a year after the murder Maggie says that police had executed
00:04:30
numerous search warrants and interviewed a lot of people for this case eventually
00:04:36
detective Felton became very frustrated with the case mainly because all of this
00:04:42
work all of this investigation failed to flush out a suspect right the investigators started to believe that
00:04:48
maybe the killer was someone that Britney didn't know and that was why it was so hard to connect perpetrator to
00:04:54
victim when the murderer doesn't know the victim it almost makes the case so much more complicated yes you see it
00:05:02
once or twice a week it feels like these days in the news where there's some 30 40 25-year-old Cold Case homicide that
00:05:10
they say oh we solved it based off of DNA the guy wasn't even in the file or we we still don't know exactly how this
00:05:18
man knew her yeah and we're not kidding ourselves sometimes these investigations
00:05:22
are just not thorough and sometimes they just don't work the case as hard as they
00:05:27
should I would say the majority of these cases they're worked hard they do their
00:05:33
due diligence but because the victim didn't know their murderer it becomes like a very complicated riddle and so
00:05:42
like you said some of these individuals their names were never in the file when you have a situation where you start to
00:05:51
think or have reason to believe that maybe the victim did not know the attacker then you go okay we probably
00:06:00
should be putting together a profile of the killer that's exactly what Tulsa PD did in this case and they released a
00:06:08
portion of that profile of the killer to the public it's it's pretty generic but
00:06:13
stay with me here everybody so their profile reads as follows someone who was a night out okay that makes some sense
00:06:24
here because it's definitely a possibility when the police are working under the idea that this attack took
00:06:31
place between 1 p.m. on the 27th and their statement is sometime in the early morning hours of the 28th right so this
00:06:42
is a third shift attacker if you will also possibly someone who traveled Interstate 35 Interstate 44 or I40
00:06:51
roadways around Tulsa often now this I'm wondering if this has to do with the proximity of the apartment complex to
00:07:00
those interstates they did say it could be somebody with anger issues and possibly sexual problems or
00:07:09
irregularities someone who possibly worked as a public service provider such as a cable installer Gas Company
00:07:16
employee phone company worker and so on and we talked about that with to me here
00:07:24
Captain when it when I see an investigation like this where the social Circle doesn't seem to flush out a a
00:07:32
suspect or point to anybody we've covered these kind of cases before I feel like this is somebody that
00:07:40
has some kind of ties to this apartment complex it's it could be a resident could be a vendor or worst case scenario
00:07:49
for your investigation it might just be some complete stranger who knows you know what the type of victim I'm looking
00:07:58
for is a young woman they got a lot of those young women young single women living alone in that big apartment
00:08:05
complex over there yeah and then it makes you wonder and this might be a leap but you got a lot of students that
00:08:13
go to that Community College that live there somebody that works at the college hears hey well you know a lot of the
00:08:21
students live in this apartment complex again well I know what type of victim I'm looking for go there KJ RH news
00:08:30
reported that tulso homicide detective Vic ragal he was one of the individuals working on Britney's case as well he
00:08:40
seemed to firmly believe that Britney's killer was some type of stalker so his words from the good detective says quote
00:08:47
whoever murdered her that night more than likely had seen her before and knew that she lived in that apartment end
00:08:54
quote now I know it sounds like I'm talking on both sides of my face here with this investigation
00:09:00
but he's not necessarily that Britney knew her attack he's simply saying that if it were to be a stalker it is his
00:09:10
belief from what he's seen in the investigation that the person that murdered her that night had seen her
00:09:17
before and knew that she lived in that apartment that does he may not have even known her name but saw her and decided
00:09:26
you know what that's the hunter that's my prey and and I might watch her for a little bit to to get a little Intel
00:09:34
about her her lifestyle her comings and goings her routines yeah and he's not saying that this individual stocked her
00:09:42
for a long period of time or even make contact with her I think the term stalker maybe confuses people a little
00:09:51
bit but I think like you said you you have a guy installing cable next door and sees her and then just keeps an eye
00:10:01
out on her or follows her home one night well and when you have a potential stranger on Stranger crime like this
00:10:09
homicide with a sexual assault not only do you do a profile of the killer but you do the old pervert Roundup and so we
00:10:17
can see here in our examination of this investigation that they did their due diligence uh the detective came up with
00:10:26
276 suspects who who either lived in the apartment complex or near this apartment
00:10:33
complex these were sex offenders and you know what that is right that's a lot of
00:10:39
perverts mhm the old pervert Roundup at one time it was just it was just the Pervert Roundup and then it had happened
00:10:47
for so many years and times that it it's old hat I think I think in episode 12 we
00:10:53
said pervert Roundup and ever since then it's been the old yeah maybe you can answer answer this question for me cuz I
00:11:00
wasn't clear in my research it seems like the the Tulsa Police Department they're the ones
00:11:08
that did the profile is there any indication that they reach out to the FBI in this case so the Tulsa Police dep
00:11:14
department they released the profile my guess would be that yes that a local they probably sent somebody from the
00:11:22
local branch to review the case file review what their findings were the evidence and such and and a lot of times
00:11:30
what you will see is I love when people call in another agency to get other eyes
00:11:37
two heads are better than one especially in homicide investigations and a lot of times you
00:11:44
know we paint this picture like the FBI is so much smarter than the local detectives a lot of times what I've
00:11:49
found in these cases Captain is the FBI is confirming what the suspicions of the
00:11:55
detectives already had you know they're they're back they're finding a lot of the same things here now back to these
00:12:03
sex offenders there's varying degrees of the sex offenders they're not going to all be violent individuals and
00:12:11
to clear that up we have the detectives words who says quote I'm talking thefts of women women's underwear I'm talking
00:12:18
peeping Toms I'm talking rapes So within that 26 276 people there's varying degrees of of what kind of gross crimes
00:12:30
these these guys have been a part of well I think this is a true statement when it's a sexually motivated crime
00:12:39
those individuals seem to escalate over time yeah a lot of times they will start
00:12:46
off as a Peeping Tom or and then graduate to breaking into the home or apartment and stealing something of the
00:12:57
the woman's and and as you said it sometimes they don't escalate and other times they do here's this is so smart
00:13:06
here so continuing on here all the men that we just talked about the 276 were investigated they police talked to all
00:13:14
of them the detective Jeff Felton he engineered the creation of a searchable database just for this case right so
00:13:23
this is so police can track the leads the tips Persons of Interest and DNA rule outs we're going to have them
00:13:33
approaching people and we'll get into DNA here in a minute with this case but here's the thing that I wanted to
00:13:38
underline that was so smart by these detectives remember a couple years back when we talked to uh an FBI agent who
00:13:47
specialized in sexual assaults and and sexually motivated murders he said that a lot of
00:13:56
times rapist get picked up on burglary charges because they're they're unsuccessful in the rape they get they
00:14:05
get the police are called or homeowner puts up a fight or pulls a gun on them and they just simply get arrested for
00:14:13
being in the home they broke into the home snuck into the home that's what they get caught for but because they
00:14:19
didn't sexually assault anybody or get to even the portion of the crime where crimes where they're attempting to do so
00:14:26
they get labeled as a burglar MH well well these detectives are saying we we went through reports regularly looking
00:14:35
not just for rapists and sex offenders at looking for burglars who were arrested in the area in the middle they
00:14:43
they're in the home or residents at odd hours the middle of the night question so you said there was 270 some during
00:14:53
the Pervert Roundup is that including possibly these break in uh these robbers or is the robbers on top of the Pervert
00:15:04
Roundup this these are additions to the list so from my understanding the 276 is
00:15:10
simply you punch in proximity to this apartment and figure out how many sex offenders live in a certain mile radius
00:15:17
from there that's your 276 now think about that for a second 276 plus I don't know how many more
00:15:25
people they added to that but look I'm quick to call out when somebody's a piece of [ __ ] I'm quick to call somebody
00:15:34
a douche canoe you got to tip your hat though to these investigators one you did the Pervert Roundup and then like
00:15:41
you said we know that it's a crime that escalates so the people that possibly broke into houses maybe they were there
00:15:49
to do something more nefarious so we're going to look at them too but to question all those individuals to track
00:15:57
down all those individuals that's a task so my hat's off to them and if anybody's out there
00:16:06
going whoa that's an alarming number of sex offenders in that area we we need to
00:16:10
be clear here we do not know how large of a scale they were looking at their words detectives words were that lived
00:16:18
in that apartment complex or near that apartment complex near to the detectives could mean a quarter of a mile or it
00:16:25
could mean within 10 miles or we don't really know exactly how far they fanned out uh in their search now
00:16:35
one thing police did have on their side Captain was DNA it's 2004 when this case
00:16:40
goes down the DNA analysis was readily available at that time obviously the investigators thank OJ for that they're
00:16:49
going to decide that DNA was going to be their best evidence and they wanted to use it for elimination purposes and we
00:16:58
already touched on that a little bit by informing everyone that they had a DAT one of the criteria on their database
00:17:06
was DNA rule outs okay so this person is on our list for reasons a b and c were they cleared by DNA y yay or nay and so
00:17:19
really what this is going to amount to is remember they found that seamen stain on Britney's bedding and the blood
00:17:29
droplet on the wall the two samples are consistent meaning they came from the same person so this DNA male DNA profile
00:17:39
is entered into codus but they find no matches they get no matches so this means now basically we're going to do a
00:17:48
DNA drag net we're just going to start asking everybody that that's name is in the case File or on this database to
00:17:56
submit their DNA which reportedly there were only a few people that declined which will immediately raise red flags
00:18:06
but it it sounds like they took the DNA of many many individuals there was another angle that they were going to be
00:18:12
working here as well Captain this this comes about in August of 2005 they put together a $5,000 reward with this
00:18:22
reward fund for information whether any tips came in only the police know that's
00:18:29
not information that they've released to us or to the public in 2007 we get tsop PD they decide a new
00:18:38
angle on this investigation right they're going to hit us with some new information asking the public for help
00:18:45
detective Felton at this time is still leading the investigation so he goes public with photos of a pillowcase that
00:18:53
was found in Britney's apartment the detective is saying we believe that it's possibility that this pillowcase
00:19:01
belonged to the killer that they brought it with them to the scene for one reason
00:19:06
or another now to be clear they suspected this because it did not match any of her other Linens or bedding but
00:19:15
she's also 18 years old we've you know everybody can remember their first apartment A lot of times you're just
00:19:21
getting things and items from wherever you can a lot of hand-me-downs so there's nothing about
00:19:29
this pillowcase that is specific enough to tell us that it's a direct specific connection to the attacker or killer
00:19:38
other than it's just simply a pillowcase of unknown Origins right the key here Captain is the
00:19:46
detective in charge thinks that this could be a potential lead and he tells the media look sometimes
00:19:53
burglars maybe we have somebody that was attempting to break into cars or apartments and steal things and may not
00:20:01
have gone out that night with the intention of sexually assaulting and killing someone but maybe they brought
00:20:08
this with them because as we know burglars will sometimes they use things like a pillowcase to grab items and and
00:20:16
carry them with them when they're fleeing from a scene yeah and like we know she got home a little later did
00:20:22
they go out when it was dark they're hey what better place to break in what better place to go look into
00:20:31
break into cars than apartment complex cuz there's a bunch of cars and and they're all in one location and so he's
00:20:39
out and about looking to commit a crime like that and sees Britney come home and
00:20:45
goes well now now my motivation has changed well and there was no label or brand
00:20:51
name for this this pillowcase but it was uni does that mean that the the individual cutout the label well I don't
00:20:59
know why there was no label or brand name I'm I'm assuming that there would have been a label at one time did it did
00:21:06
it fall fall off or was it purposely removed I can't say but what I can say is that the detective believed that the
00:21:13
pillowcase was unique enough that maybe somebody would recognize it and be able to
00:21:21
identify where it came from or or who it may have belonged to unfortunately that that was 2007 and as
00:21:32
we know all these years later pillowcase idea good idea but it it failed to bring
00:21:39
forth any information but but this is like what you were saying about hey we did the Pervert Roundup okay that that
00:21:47
happens in most cases okay we're going to go a step further let's let's look into individuals that were caught
00:21:53
breaking into a house and then this pillowcase idea these are they're not just sitting around hoping
00:22:01
that leads come to them they're working every angle that they can think of it it
00:22:07
shows the level of one in intelligence um you know sophistication and their their due diligence you know I
00:22:19
know we use that word a lot but you know they're looking at this case in every angle and here too is a bit of a concern
00:22:29
for the family and I would think for detectives as well and this is something that Britney's mother Maggie learned so
00:22:39
she learns and I don't have specific details but her words are I was horrified that years after my daughter's
00:22:47
murder I found out that several sketchy incidents occurred at the Glenn Eagles apartment complex and she references a
00:22:56
specific time she says whatever these incidents were went down about eight months before her daughter
00:23:03
Britney moved in and no one told her or Britney about these situations and then to expand on that
00:23:14
and go a little further out she's saying also after my daughter was murder murdered I
00:23:20
learned that they weren't telling any of the new people moving in the new tenants
00:23:25
moving in that a murder and unsolved murder had taken place in this apartment complex well that's not just a need to
00:23:35
know situation for people moving in for their own safety it's also a need to know for if you see something say
00:23:43
something you know if you hear if you get told something or you hear a rumor or there's some guy lurking in the
00:23:51
parking lot night after night it could have prevented new information to reaching
00:23:58
police or getting reported sometimes people don't know how serious something can be because they are unaware that
00:24:04
something serious really serious happened in that same location right um but shout out to Maggie she doesn't give
00:24:11
up this this woman is a fighter very smart very brave and leading the charge as you will see to get Justice for her
00:24:20
daughter a young woman who she described as her best friend she ends up putting up some Billboards
00:24:29
advertising and asking for information in her daughter's case and she did this with the help of a
00:24:37
company called Lamar Outdoor Advertising which oddly enough Captain we we were lucky enough to put up a billboard in
00:24:45
Ohio and that is the company same company that we used I don't know how many Billboard companies there are but
00:24:51
shout out to Lamar company because it's my understanding that they helped her as
00:24:58
far as a lot of the financials go with with putting up these Billboards in this same
00:25:05
Year Maggie decides to take things up a notch all right Crank It Up to 11 so in 2007 this is after the thir anniversary
00:25:15
of the murder Maggie launched her Caravan To Catch a killer a national campaign to
00:25:23
generate tips on her daughter's case and to help save other people's daughters so she got a Rav 4 SUV custom wrapped in
00:25:32
multiple large scale photos of Britney and information about the unsolved murder and tipline phone number all
00:25:40
wrapped around this SUV and bright pink and purple colors which she says were her daughter's favorite colors and also
00:25:47
deliberately eye-catching and her goal was like look this case has been in the media at the local level I put up these
00:25:57
billboards with the help of the good people at Lamar we're still not getting anywhere my daughter's case has not gone
00:26:05
National I'm going to put it all over this Rav 4 and I'm going to drive this vehicle to different states through
00:26:12
different cities and see if anybody sees something somewhere because who knows if
00:26:18
if you have somebody that was just working in the area maybe maybe they're not there permanently they just happen
00:26:25
to be working in the area for a week several months or what have you they may other than that may have little ties to
00:26:34
the City of Tulsa so during the what is what's coming up to 20 years since the murder yeah her mother has
00:26:46
traveled the country she she says that she's put as much as 300,000 miles that she's traveled and during that time of
00:26:55
course talking to people about about about Britney so it's driving all over the country and that's one of the ways
00:27:02
that we became aware of this still unsolved homicide was last year one of the trips that the Caravan
00:27:11
made from Oklahoma was to Orlando Florida to last year's crime con where Maggie put all of the case information
00:27:19
that she could on broch shores and passed them out to the True Crime podcasters at crime
00:27:28
conon last year let's jump back to the fifth anniversary here Captain because this was a a significant report this
00:27:35
again from kjrh news that we referenced earlier this is 2009 now and it reads it's been five years since Tulsa college
00:27:44
student Britney Phillips was brutally murdered inside her apartment and still the case remains unsolved in the past 5
00:27:51
years DNA from the crime scene has been checked against thousands of potential Suspects but there have been no matches
00:27:59
investigators now suspect Britney may not have known her attacker police labeled the murder a sex crime
00:28:07
suspecting that some unknown man targeted her raped her and murdered her Maggie Britney's mother told Tulsa
00:28:16
World that she never expected her daughter's case to remain unsolved at the 5-year Mark however she still had
00:28:24
faith in the efforts put in by the also police department she said quote they have turned over every stone they have
00:28:32
done everything they could do to keep it from becoming a cold case and that is what scares me I'm starting to realize
00:28:40
we may never solve this case end quote so as we just heard the investigators they're testing the crime scene DNA
00:28:50
against ultimately thousands of potential suspects according to that report most of these were just men who
00:28:56
lived or worked in the area but several were men who were very promising suspects two of these were brothers who
00:29:04
lived nearby and had been interested in her and now it's unclear what that means
00:29:11
but that's the information we have then there was a guy whom Britney had blocked
00:29:16
from her phone and email this was a security guard in her apartment complex whom Britney had gone on a single date
00:29:25
with I I'm take I'm sorting it out here captain that this date may not have gone
00:29:31
very well because ultimately she ends up blocking him from her phone and from email he was one of the individuals that
00:29:38
refused to give a DNA sample by the way now police obtained a search warrant to collect a buckle swab so if if you're
00:29:49
not going to give it to us willingly if we got enough on you we might be able to
00:29:52
get a judge to sign off on a document stating that you are required by by law to give us your DNA and they get this
00:30:00
DNA and they rule him [Music] out now that you've wrapped up 2023 and are ushering into the next it's a
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for you [Music] all right we are back cheers mates onward and upwards cheers to you Colonel cheers to
00:33:16
you captain now when we started off episode one I had made the statement that this is a bit of a messy case and I
00:33:25
said I think that most will agree with me when we get into some of the details here's to me where the details start
00:33:33
making this what I would refer to as a messy case so they're getting all this DNA ruling
00:33:40
people out getting search warrants to mandate that somebody has to give their DNA but one thing
00:33:48
is of course the Public's going to assume you have a rape murder case where the DNA came from but they never
00:33:56
publicly addressed exactly what the source was of the suspect DNA that they are using for comparison right we know
00:34:04
that it came from some bedding well not just bedding but also the the blood evidence exactly exactly
00:34:12
we know it came from the bedding and from the blood on the wall but this this is going to become very important as as
00:34:21
we continue on here so this is where I want to highlight Britney's mother Maggie here a little bit and the good
00:34:30
work that she's not only done for her daughter and attempts to get Justice for her daughter
00:34:36
but this she's thinking on the large scale here she's she's attempting to solve other cases too or help police to
00:34:44
solve other cases as well for other people's people's daughters so around the same time Maggie's very vocal about
00:34:52
her concerns that the killer had likely killed before or since and has slipped through the cracks
00:34:58
of the justice system somehow yeah what we're looking at is a serial killer she starts pushing
00:35:07
for legislation to allow Oklahoma Police to obtain DNA upon felony arrest so at the time you know we we know that this
00:35:17
is something that is going on and happening pretty regularly in in certain States and in certain jurisdictions but
00:35:25
not every state in back then it was not happening in Oklahoma so she is at the front of the line pushing for this
00:35:36
legislation well we see that not all the times but again she became uh activist for her daughter and then in turn became
00:35:46
an activist for every victim exactly that that's exactly right now it does take it did take a good amount of time
00:35:54
unfortunately the law did eventually pass in 2016 after Maggie was working this for so many years and now she's
00:36:06
pushing and helping others to make sure that this legislation will become a similar law in
00:36:13
other states she she says it should be something that we should be doing in all 50 states yeah I agree because because
00:36:21
people move and look criminals find out oh well heck man if I get caught breaking into one of these places and I
00:36:29
get arrested on a felony then they get my DNA boom now I'm connected to these other rapes possibly other
00:36:38
murders if I move to a state that doesn't do that because like we said good chances
00:36:45
are she didn't know the individual that killed her so if if I'm you know a murderer
00:36:57
and I'm committing other crimes I'm going well let me go to a state where they can't collect my DNA now we're
00:37:04
going to start talking about forensic genealogy okay so we have as you said the DNA samples according to law
00:37:14
enforcement in this case a comparison of 3,000 is the number that they have stated to the
00:37:24
public okay so three ,000 that's that's a crazy amount of people but this as you
00:37:31
said Captain this is this is everyone they could think of even people she went to high school
00:37:37
with people that she went college with in Florida and then the Pervert Roundup as
00:37:44
you said so they said that they obtained DNA samples from upwards of 2,000 men in
00:37:50
a square mile of Britney's Apartment 250 from what he called viable suspect that I'm guessing that's the sex
00:37:59
offender list the um and at the end of the day they're saying that the number Rose to about 3,000 men that they tested
00:38:08
this DNA against and due to all these efforts they're confused and completely mindblown that this did not lead them to
00:38:16
the killer that the killer had never been caught using this DNA Dragnet that they were doing so in 2018 the tulso PD
00:38:24
Cold Case detective his name is Eddie Majors he took the same physical evidence in the case that they had been
00:38:32
using the Seaman stain on the sheets and the blood on the wall and used it to create SNP DNA profile of the suspected
00:38:40
killer you've heard us talk about this before if you're a longtime listener sometimes it's referred to as snapshot
00:38:46
DNA this is when they're going to they take parabon Nano Labs is really great at doing this it's it's what they call a
00:38:56
phenotype so they create a phenotype image of the suspect based it's a computer generated image based on what
00:39:05
his genetic makeup indicated the killer would look like so this includes things like skin color hair and eye color face
00:39:15
shape freckling and so on now it cannot determine n age obviously facial hair weight or other variables but we've seen
00:39:24
this in the hammer Slayer case from Aurora we've seen this in in in many cases they do this phenotyping for
00:39:32
Britney's case they get the snapshot DNA image and the imag is of a blonde young
00:39:38
man with green or blue eyes and a pointy chin also a little background here saying that the suspect the killer was
00:39:48
primarily of northern European ancestry Maggie wrapped her car again this time in the image of that
00:39:58
suspect and many tips were getting called in now naming the person saying oh I know who who somebody that looks
00:40:06
just like that I know somebody that kind of fits the profile and looks a lot like
00:40:11
that image that you have here well see that seems again like and I I feel like I sound like a broken record but here's
00:40:20
law enforcement and a case doing every angle that they can and then because of their work and because
00:40:29
of going the extra mile now we have new leads hey go look into this individual so did anything come up of them looking
00:40:39
into these leads yes and actually they as said people were naming this person and what this ultimately leads them
00:40:50
to is an individual they ask him for DNA he agrees to DNA they get a buckle swab
00:41:01
and they find out it's a match his DNA matched the DNA that they had been looking for all this time so
00:41:10
this is a he's referred to as a Green County man and for reasons that will soon be clear to everyone he's not
00:41:20
named okay it's determined that he was the boyfriend of Britney's best friend at the time of her
00:41:29
murder the friend Britney's friend and her boyfriend lived in Collinsville and not in
00:41:36
Tulsa they came over for a a visit they stayed over and during that time Britney allowed them to stay in her
00:41:48
bedroom sleep in her bedroom I'll take the couch you guys are the guests sleep in the
00:41:53
bedroom this after interviewing this young young man they figure out that he and his girlfriend they had sex in that
00:42:01
bed while they stayed there MH and he says that's how the Seaman was on the sheets I don't have any clue how there
00:42:10
would be a small drop of my blood on a wall he did reference that that he thought maybe he had had a bloody nose
00:42:17
keep in mind he's being interviewed and asked about this 14 years after the murder and I'm sure that law enforcement
00:42:27
because like we said this detective unit is they're not ones to just stop stop their investigation so I'm
00:42:38
sure that once they talk to him they end up talking to his one-time girlfriend to
00:42:45
confirm some of what he was saying yeah and I don't know this this status of their relationship they could still be
00:42:52
together for all we know but because the man is not named but here's here's where
00:42:56
my mind goes to we spent so much time and I believe rightfully so on all the efforts of the detectives and how
00:43:02
thorough of an investigation they were doing meanwhile we find out 14 years later the DNA they were looking for the
00:43:09
whole time matches Britney's best friend's boyfriend that this guy is two degrees from the from the murder victim
00:43:18
right and so then it that makes me question the thoroughness of the investigation look people do slip
00:43:27
through the CRA the cracks um yeah but if you're a detective you're getting this information from the the medical
00:43:34
examiners right and and so because there's a misstep at basically step one then everything that you look into I mean
00:43:43
could you imagine the frustration we rounded up all these people and and we're eliminating these
00:43:49
people and and did they test the right guy and and for whatever reason he was scared scared and gave him their D he
00:43:58
the guy was scared gave his DNA and when it comes back oh you don't match he was
00:44:03
going oh thank God and and then he's probably wondering well how come I didn't match well because they didn't
00:44:11
get the right sample and again this this goes back to the rape kit why wasn't there a rape kit done
00:44:18
because again like you said every angle because you know and I'm not trying to throw [ __ ]
00:44:27
you know at Britney or anything else but you have a a single female let's just I
00:44:34
I'll just put myself in this situation if I was single and I was dating multiple people or talking to different
00:44:42
people there's a possibility that you would find you know evidence of multiple individuals being
00:44:53
in my bed does that make sense so it doesn't even have to be that she she let she shared her her bed and that's how
00:45:00
they found this this evidence you know it could have been somebody else that she was seeing and then let's just say
00:45:06
it was you know remember how she was talking to her old high school boyfriend what if they became intimate
00:45:14
and then the detectives tested that sample and went well it matches this guy that she's been seeing and then they
00:45:21
could put a case together against him and boom this guy was locked away for the rest of his life because they didn't
00:45:29
collect the correct sample exactly you're exactly right the short of it is the DNA evidence that they were using
00:45:39
this entire time to lead them to the suspect to find the guy the killer was wrong and so it led them to the wrong
00:45:50
man and it also begs the question why on Earth did Tulsa PD prioritize the cement sample on the
00:46:00
bedding rather than a rape kit taken from Britney's body at autopsy it doesn't make any damn sense well and
00:46:07
then think about this Captain th this is the nightmare of the situation this new DNA Prof they they
00:46:16
come up with a new DNA profile we'll get into that here in a minute but this the
00:46:20
old one uhuh when you're using that one and it's the wrong one mhm and you've tested up to 3,000 people per their
00:46:30
words there's a chance you may have tested the real killer and he didn't match well that's what I said yeah and
00:46:38
then and but could you imagine also just because of people not doing their job correctly then the the
00:46:48
mother of the victim of the raped murdered victim is driving around with this image on her car
00:46:56
thinking that this is the image of the Killer and then once they once they get a
00:47:03
match it's a a story that's pretty you know easy to eliminate him why didn't you do again I
00:47:16
mean this is just ridiculous I mean and I hate to like because this sounds disgusting but it's like what if you
00:47:23
found multiple you know samples of seen around the room it's like okay what those don't
00:47:32
matter the what matters is that we know that she was strangled is there DNA on her body is there touch
00:47:39
DNA is there again why wasn't there a rape kit done well H hang on a second now we we can sit here and be as enraged
00:47:48
as we want to be and inv vent as long as we want but they answer that so in 20 22 that they're going to address that
00:47:59
issue and what they're saying is the reason why we prioritized the Seaman sample found on the bedding was that the
00:48:07
they were unable to obtain a sufficient amount of DNA from the genal swabs taken
00:48:12
from the body at autopsy and so technology obviously is getting better as this case is getting colder and now
00:48:22
they are able to prioritize DNA that they that they weren't looking at back in 2004 and 2005
00:48:30
Unfortunately they went down all these wrong roads 3,000 of them mind you uh in the meantime and once technology had
00:48:39
caught up to where they could use other samples who knows how long it sat unknown that they should be using the
00:48:48
other DNA yeah to be fair to them yeah now what we do know is they are using other DNA that they that that is of The
00:48:57
Killers it does not match it doesn't match the individual that we just discussed at length right um so he is
00:49:05
not the killer um the the other thing too but what what tipped them off was not just the story you know they're
00:49:11
detectives they're not just going to believe oh you were there and had sex with your girlfriend that's convenient
00:49:17
right no they put together and in the timeline they said that he he physically could not have been in that location
00:49:24
remember they lived out of town and he had there were multiple um persons backing up an alibi for that
00:49:32
individual and so you you start to look at this and you can't have two things that are both factual that are are
00:49:39
giving you different results right you can't have DNA that puts him at the scene as the killer but also a million
00:49:44
reasons why he physically could not have been there in the time that she was killed right and and to also uh defend I
00:49:53
I know now I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth but also to defend law enforcement they found Seaman and they
00:50:01
found a drop of blood so what's the chances of that happening you know so and we are allowed
00:50:10
to talk out of both sides of our face that's why we typically do two episodes do you want to hear one of the
00:50:18
strangest things this is one of the stranger things that we've come across in any case so we'll get back to the DNA
00:50:26
here in a minute last year there is this strange new evidence that comes about all of a sudden in this case
00:50:36
and it comes from a what what's my favorite thing in in these cold cases what is it a letter this comes
00:50:47
from a letter oh no I thought you were going to do transfer evidence oh oh yeah that's my other favorite thing transfer
00:50:54
evidence letter okay yeah letter is your number one favorite yeah any case with a
00:51:01
letter we'll cover remember the kids grew up in Florida remember Mom and Dad were married in Florida they move around
00:51:08
a little bit and Mom and Dad separate mhm Britney was not particularly close with her father it sounds like he was
00:51:18
estrange from the family it sounds like Britney made efforts to keep a relationship with her
00:51:24
father she he had sent a birthday card the father received it and never really did anything with this so to be clear
00:51:33
it's actually a a it was a birthday card to her grandfather she mailed it to her
00:51:38
dad for him to give to his dad right makes sense I believe the way The Story Goes is he placed it in a box or in a
00:51:46
drawer or a closet or somewhere and forgot all about it he's he hears that his daughter's been killed he's upset
00:51:53
and he's got this card he never he just kind of tucked it away somewhere and then in his grief forgot all about it
00:52:01
all these years go by and he's he finds this letter and opens it up and the card
00:52:09
is in Britney's handwriting saying I love you happy birthday sorry if this arrives late love Britney very short
00:52:15
sweet message to his father whose birthday would have been September 14th the card did arrive late but what's
00:52:26
remarkable about this and when Dad finds this card and gives it to Maggie remember Maggie is the champion
00:52:37
here in the story she's the one that's going to find and get Justice for her daughter she sees this card realizes
00:52:44
it's her daughter's handwriting saying that it's you know it's a dress from Britney and everything her eyes about
00:52:49
pop out of her head when she sees the envelope the envelope the white postage office stamp
00:52:57
so anybody that's used one of those Pitney bows or the where you pay for a service or you
00:53:06
buy a digitized stamp rather than put an actual stamp on it they'll be familiar with this so this is a a machine made
00:53:16
the postage stamp well it puts a date on those and the reason why this is significant is
00:53:24
the postal stamp is dated September 29th and we don't have a date or time of death but this
00:53:33
is technically two days after it's believed that Britney was killed and murdered so the the purchase of this
00:53:43
stamp is September 29th and then when it gets stamped again going through the mail it's it's marked as September 29th
00:53:51
so it appears based off of that information that this letter was mailed 2 days after she was killed now could it
00:54:00
have gotten stuck on a conveyor belt maybe but the problem with that part is this stamp was paid for somebody paid
00:54:07
for this stamp on the 29th so the conveyor belt thing doesn't hold a whole lot of
00:54:13
water what okay so what this could indicate is did she did she give this card to somebody and say oh by the way
00:54:22
oh friend you're going to the post office tomorrow tomorrow or later today could you take this for me and they just
00:54:27
didn't get around to it for a couple days it's it's hard to say because this information is coming out 2023 and she's
00:54:33
killed in 20 in 2004 so 19 years later maybe somebody just forgot but the other thing that could point to remember what
00:54:42
did the medical examiner say that he noticed when he when he walked into the bedroom where she was killed and where
00:54:48
the body was found somebody had taken the time to place towels over top of the victim mhm we
00:54:58
know the psychology of that is some form of remorse and typically that only happens when perpetrator knows the
00:55:05
victim cares for the victim would this person have cared enough to mail the letter the
00:55:13
card it's all very strange well and like you said it could be also something very simple did she go
00:55:20
to the post office and they stamped it and she put it in the Box herself and then it got stuck on the side of the
00:55:28
box I mean there's a drop box at our post office and and I know things can get stuck or
00:55:38
they kind of go down the wrong shoot and they fall out of whatever bag is supposed to collect them I know it's
00:55:45
happened to us many times when we're shipping out orders so is it just something as simple as
00:55:51
that um but very very St strange you also have to wonder is there any chance they got the time of death
00:56:00
wrong you know we well they basing that on science well they got this sample wrong so and somebody pointed out to me
00:56:11
that look A lot of times these you can purchase these this postage at kiosk and a lot of these kiosk are often times
00:56:20
located on college campuses right I would told that pickup time for the for the mail there was early
00:56:34
afternoon I don't know it's I can't really wrap my head around this whole idea but it it is very strange that we
00:56:42
are told that she was killed late the 27th early the 28th and this this postage is purchased the 29th but now
00:56:52
that we have the right sample hope hopefully they can go back they they have the samples I mean
00:57:00
they got 3,000 samples to test against so start taking you know some other leads that you got and other information
00:57:09
you got from those interviews and and start testing you know the people that were on top of your list to begin
00:57:18
with and then again we can go back if those tests don't match we can go back through the genealogy route too so I
00:57:27
think this is like you said I mean I hate to get people's hopes up but I think well this is just a matter of
00:57:35
time before this individual is caught and I would not be surprised if this person is a is come to find that they're
00:57:45
a serial killer and they're actually responsible for for multiple deaths yeah and that goes back to what Maggie
00:57:54
suspicions were and now that we know that they were chasing the wrong DNA for all that time you could have a situation
00:58:01
where yes they they have attacked and killed since if they hadn't before Britney maybe since Britney as well and
00:58:10
I I'm with you Captain I feel like this new evidence the proper evidence that they're now testing is going to lead to
00:58:17
an arrest and a conviction as we said already Maggie was recently at crime Con in Orlando in September 2023 there to
00:58:26
raise awareness for her daughter's case that's where we met her and agreed to I I told Maggie to her face we we will be
00:58:33
covering your daughter's case as as soon as we can and look she's becoming more and more frustrated as the 20th
00:58:41
anniversary of her daughter's death approaches and that will be later this year unfortunately we wanted to do as
00:58:47
much as we could to help spread the word about this still unsolved case and keep
00:58:52
in mind at the local level and Oklahoma there's also still to this day a misconception that the case has been
00:58:59
solved because you know it's blasted on the news at some point that they found a DNA
00:59:06
match right and thank God that they didn't name this individual because I mean even just being accused of
00:59:13
something that heinous um had to take a toll on that individual and to expand on that profile
00:59:21
a little bit you know once in a while I like to do a little garage profile I think that there's some things that are
00:59:27
probably pretty spoton with their profile even as generic as it is but they're generic for a reason the most
00:59:34
logical explanation to me I think that the killer watch was watching her now for
00:59:41
how long of was that I don't know but it also I've reviewed a lot of information
00:59:46
that it seems to be that the the police believe that and they're not just pulling stuff
00:59:53
out of thin air that they they must have some reason to believe this that that it seems most likely to
01:00:00
them that she did not know her killer and they they seem to be hardcore on this theory that he was lying in weight
01:00:10
of her he was waiting for her either I I don't know necessarily that that means that he was already in the apartment MH
01:00:19
but she comes home it's late at night she's got to climb up those stairs all the way to that apart
01:00:25
he could have ambushed her anywhere or pushed his way into an apartment let's not forget Richard
01:00:33
Ramirez the nightstalker two of his victims one of them survived thank God but two of his victims he simply spotted
01:00:43
the woman driving home and decided to follow her and watches her get out of her car she goes into her house where
01:00:52
she shares with a roommate and had not had enough time to close the garage door behind her and he just
01:00:59
simply went in after her and I know of other cases as well where somebody follows somebody from a
01:01:08
parking lot and pushes their way in or somebody goes up to their apartment door opens up the door and has items in their
01:01:17
hands to put down goes to put them down on the countertop hasn't closed the door behind
01:01:23
them and turns around and see somebody standing in the doorway yeah I think this this person has some tie there's
01:01:31
some tie to this apartment complex to this individual either they lived there they had worked there uh or did work
01:01:39
there as some type of vender or this was a hunting ground for some kind of sexual
01:01:45
predator some kind of sex offender as of November of 2023 so leading up to late last year
01:01:55
unfortunately Tulsa had a horrifying backlog of untested rape kits these some of these
01:02:02
dating back as far as the early 90s from my understanding Captain late last year
01:02:07
November of 2023 the crime lab started testing these untested kits so they started with a
01:02:16
number of over 3,000 untested and now have tested close to 1,500 of those rape kits so it will be very
01:02:29
interesting to see whether the material sorry it will be very interesting to see
01:02:35
if the new DNA the correct DNA that they are using in Britney's case if it could
01:02:41
match any of those kits as they keep testing them and if anybody has any information do we have a way
01:02:51
that I mean first of all you should call law enforcement but but is there another place that they could reach out
01:02:58
to we have a we have a few different ways for you to submit a tip in this case and I do want to point out Maggie
01:03:07
her mother says look there's no tip that is too small there is no silly tips so don't think that you're you're being
01:03:15
silly don't be embarrassed if you think you have any information at all they want to hear from you there's a homicide
01:03:21
tip line 9187 98 8477 or you can email homicide at cityoftulsa.org there's a Crim Stoppers
01:03:34
number if you want to be anonymous 91 18596 cops CS again no tip is too small if you have
01:03:45
information please reach out to Tulsa PD using any of those methods [Music] you could be anywhere in the world but
01:04:05
you're here so that makes you our friend also means you probably need therapy but
01:04:13
we want to thank you so much for listening thanks for telling a friend Colonel do we have any recommended
01:04:17
reading for the beautiful beautiful listeners we do this is going to be more of a recommended reading for those that
01:04:25
want to do a deep dive or followup on this case I'm recommending that everybody go to Britney Phillips murder.
01:04:33
net her family and all the people that are advocating for her and for her family and her mother put together an
01:04:41
amazing website that is devoted to getting this case solved and it's filled with information about this case and
01:04:50
it's it's rare you know you and I we've covered so many cases here Captain but it's rare to see this type of website
01:04:58
devoted to to a case so I recommend that everybody go and check it out again that's Britney Phillips murder. net and
01:05:06
see how you can get involved see if you can help and I I I feel very good about this case because I think after all
01:05:15
these years that we might have a little light at the end of the tunnel here and I think we're getting closer to that
01:05:22
light so I hope all of you join us by going to this website and check it out you can find that recommendation and
01:05:28
many more on our recommended page on our website True Crime garage.com and if you'd like to hang out with us live
01:05:35
we're going to be at crime con UK and crime con USA crimecon USA is going to take place in Nashville and kmec con UK
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it works for both events UK and Nashville and that promo code is TCG thanks for joining us here in the
01:05:58
garage until next week be good be kind don't you [Music] litter [Music]