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[Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who bets on JV football he is the very broke Captain
00:01:55
I don't want your life it's good to be seen and it's good to see see you thanks for listening and thanks for telling a
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[Music] friend this week we are drinking scissor kick by the beer ninjas over at Kings
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County Brewers Collective this is a double dry hopped IPA featuring a massive midair karate style edition of
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Island garage grade a big four and a half bottle caps out of five and this week we are practicing High karate
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because of our good garage friends right here first up a huge thank you and cheers to Justine and the kcbc team out
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in Brooklyn yeah and somebody that likes a little naughty karate Megan from kin Ohio next up we have Landon and Lauren
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from Sanger Texas Landon and Lauren love listening to TCG while road tripping there's a cloud with with a vein and
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it's bleeding on me and a big we like your jib to Lori and Vancouver Washington all right Captain next up we
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have Christen in the far off Alaska and last but certainly not least we have Stephanie up in Markham Ontario Canada
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everyone that we just mentioned went to True Crim garage.com that's our website and they donated to this week's beer
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enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:49
[Music] crime [Music] [Music] the sounds of rural Ashland County warn of a passing train a tragedy averted the
00:04:30
SES along County Road 1181 warn of a tragedy committed white ribbons have been strung in memory of Amy mahalic
00:04:37
Amy's body was discovered right alongside 1181 last week the ground has been scraped by investigators for soil
00:04:44
sample analysis another portion is covered with flowers left by shocked residents who now have more personal
00:04:50
reasons to help in finding Amy's killer cuz he was bent down so I couldn't see him that well Larry Schuster has told
00:04:57
the FBI an amazing story on the day Amy's body was found Shuster says he saw a suspicious looking stranger drive back
00:05:05
and forth near the discovery site and he claims the driver looked very much like
00:05:09
the police composite sketch of Amy's abductor as I was leaving coming up towards 224 that's when I seen him going
00:05:16
back down again back up I think he was coming up this way to see what was going on and see if anybody found him found
00:05:22
the girl Amy mahalic is one girl this community will never forget as a card on the flowers proclaims from the people of
00:05:30
New London Ohio we're sorry Amy there is not only a sense of pity being shown by
00:05:36
the people of Ashland County but also a sense of precaution as well even though many neighbors tell me in their opinion
00:05:42
Amy was probably killed someplace else they say they plan to play it safe just in case her abductor is still in the
00:05:49
area this is the land on which Kenneth Meer spent much of his life as a grain farmer and a frequent Hunter he says he
00:05:56
now has frequent thoughts about Amy I told told my wife the other day I said you know you see this on TV all the time
00:06:02
where they go out in in the country and find a body I said but you never figure it's going to happen right in your back
00:06:07
door Myers claims children are being watched more closely as well as property while the community awaits the arrest of
00:06:14
Amy mahalic killer in Ashlin County Jack Marshall reporting for the 10:00 [Music]
00:06:28
news [Music] all right we have three more suspects to get to before we wrap up for this week
00:06:39
now I know which one I would like to end the week on so two to choose from where
00:06:45
do you want to go next Captain do you want to talk about a suspect who has been on my mind a lot lately or would
00:06:52
you like to talk about the people's suspect Dean rle you know how in wrestling they got the people's champ I
00:06:59
would I would call Dean R the people's suspect because anytime we've spoke about this case hailing from Parts
00:07:06
Unknown that's the guy yeah that's the guy that we get the most emails about or the most blog post about well let's talk
00:07:13
about the the first guy cuz he's been on my mind too okay so the the suspect that's been on my mind a lot lately is
00:07:22
Kenneth Robert Stanton he was a one-time morine Ohio resident he pled guilty to to 13 molestation cases he received 60
00:07:32
years in a Georgia prison now back in the 60s Stanton was charged with sex crimes involving children and committed
00:07:41
to a state hospital in the state of Michigan from which he escaped he later was caught and arrested and recommitted
00:07:50
he was diagnosed at the time as a criminal sexual psychopath years later he was declared to be fit to live in
00:07:58
society and Rel released now I know a lot of people are going to you know maybe laugh at those weird statements
00:08:05
being backto back like that but look in the 60s and the 70s a lot of states did operate that way they believe that this
00:08:14
type of stuff could be you could be rehabilitated and they would issue you back out into society now let's get into
00:08:22
him in detail because he's very very interesting for many reasons now in 1989 he was molesting young girls who were
00:08:32
home alone this is believed to have started in Jackson Mississippi he would pretend to be
00:08:40
either a police officer or a food safety inspector right he's using this method to get into the home with these girls
00:08:50
that are alone yeah he's using a ruse yeah he would knock on the door basically he would he would follow these
00:08:56
girls around make sure that they're going to be home alone knock on the door and he's presenting himself as an
00:09:02
authority figure a police officer or a food safety inspector giving them reason to one trust him and two to let him into
00:09:11
the home to look into whatever it is he's claiming he he's there for once inside the home his typical emmo was to
00:09:18
blindfold and molest the girl now in the summer of 1989 one of his victims began screaming
00:09:26
so loud from inside the home that Stant was scared away a neighbor boy heard the
00:09:34
screams and this draws his attention to what's going on right and he sees Stanton flee the property the boy God
00:09:44
bless him wrote down Stanton's license plate number got him yep he gives this to the police after the girl calls in
00:09:53
the complaint and then later once they have his you know drivers license photo they have some photo of him the girl
00:10:02
identifies from that photo Stanton as the as salent rather than be arrested he flees
00:10:10
the area he was suspected of assaults not only of several in Mississippi but also in the state of Alabama and Georgia
00:10:19
as well his car his vehicle was found abandoned in Ohio in December of 1989 so first let's think about his
00:10:31
timeline for a bit we have him molesting girls young girls 9 10 years old right he's using a ruse to get into their home
00:10:42
and then once he's caught for this or suspected of this with with two witnesses two eyewitnesses he flees the
00:10:48
area and that is in the summer of ' 89 now his vehicle is found in December of '89 the thing here is you have to fill
00:10:58
in the gaps but we know that his vehicle was found abandoned in the state of Ohio so that would put him somewhere in
00:11:06
the area now let's think about his previous crimes in MO for a minute right right he's molesting these girls he's
00:11:14
using the ruse using a ruse to get into their home right he's a criminal sexual psychopath as they labeled him he's
00:11:24
using a fake identity on a girl home alone and the victimology is similar it's so similar in fact it's
00:11:32
girls of the same age living in nice neighborhoods yeah but fear not because then the FBI adds Kenneth Robert Stanton
00:11:43
to their 10most Wanted list and then one of True Crime garage's favorite old shows Unsolved Mysteries featured the
00:11:53
Stanton case on the October 24th 1990 episode of their great show maybe you could help solve a mystery that's right
00:12:03
and some people were able to help solve a mystery because viewers of the show started calling in with tips that
00:12:10
Stanton was living in a trailer park in morine Ohio well Captain guess who else was
00:12:17
watching Unsolved Mysteries that night who well the Pervert On The Run Kenneth sio Stanton saw his face on TV so
00:12:28
Stanton took off again and ston is smart and scared enough to run but like a behavior that we've discussed several
00:12:38
times on this show he can't help himself his addiction owns him it controls him he is addicted to molesting
00:12:49
young girls to victimizing girls yeah so even you'll see this with all types of of criminals repeat offenders
00:12:59
serial offenders sexual predators mm that no matter what situation they're in no matter how scared they are or if they
00:13:06
are already running from law enforcement if they see someone that fits their victimology and an opportunity to
00:13:13
assault rape kill whatever it is that they are into because they're so absolutely addicted to their desire
00:13:21
result and outcome of that victim and that opportunity so just 5 days after Stanton flees from Ohio after seeing his
00:13:30
face on TV he sees an opportunity a 9-year-old girl and he can't help himself he tries to molest her
00:13:38
thankfully he's unsuccessful and he is arrested well let's let's think about this for a second because you have
00:13:45
Killers such as like dmer which will say that he he did this thing and and he he
00:13:51
killed a guy and he's never going to do it again we we hear these guys talk about their urges and how they're trying
00:13:57
to control them and and there were it's almost like a drug uh addict you know if
00:14:03
you read like Miles Davis's book he'll say and that's the last time I did heroin and and then the next page is and
00:14:09
then I was in New York doing heroin and it's very similar to some of the stuff uh Ted Bundy would talk about but again
00:14:19
remember when Ted Bundy was on the run in Florida it's almost like um this stress the heightened stress makes the
00:14:29
addiction stronger with these individuals yeah it's it's it's exactly as said an addiction that you can't you
00:14:38
can't get away from it and the the longer you are from it the the more it increases so as said he thankfully he is
00:14:46
unsuccessful this attack leads to his arrest this all takes place in a motel in Rock Hill South
00:14:55
Carolina so once again on the Run ultimately Stanton ends up pleading guilty to 13 molestation charges
00:15:04
receiving a 60-year sentence eligible for parole after 40 but we can throw a parade because Stanton did die in prison
00:15:13
this was in August of 2011 so he's no longer a threat to communities there is no threat that he will get out of prison
00:15:22
he is thankfully no longer with us right Stanton got the reason why I like him for several reasons okay one he doesn't
00:15:29
look unlike the composite drawing right two he is already known to have been using rses that were working he's
00:15:38
already trained himself to the level that his rses are working to get into the homes of these individuals now we've
00:15:46
talked about how these serial offenders whatever crime it be they are learning through trial and error and what got him
00:15:55
caught was being in the home of the girl that he was victimizing yeah she's screaming
00:16:02
somebody from the outside hears these screams alerts them to hey something's going on and they see this grown man
00:16:08
running out the door running through the yard and getting into a car and that boy
00:16:13
was smart enough and had the wherewithal to write down this creeps license plate
00:16:20
number so you're saying I'm saying maybe he adapted and rather than knocking on the front door now he's going to use the
00:16:25
telephone to enter their home yeah you have to get out of the I got to get the victim to come out of the house I got to
00:16:31
get them to me rather than me going to them because me going to them is what almost got me caught and now I'm on the
00:16:37
run I'm up here in Ohio somewhere wasn't there a bunch of speculation that uh the
00:16:43
perpetrator's car would have been like maybe in an Alleyway but probably that he didn't actually Park in if you look
00:16:51
at pictures uh of the plaza where he picked up Amy at uh it looks like there's a little parking lot in the
00:16:58
middle yeah you you could have had Amy walk just a short distance before you would be not visible to most and have
00:17:06
your car kind of stashed there right so you create this ruse to get her out of the
00:17:11
house the problem though is you're still putting in her into a public area but then you're able to move your car out of
00:17:19
the way and like you said a little walk and and nobody's ID in the car right right and one thing I've wondered about
00:17:28
too is that if at some point did you could switch rses completely when you're talking about a 10-year-old right so you
00:17:37
you tell them at one point that you're you're going to take them somewhere that they may want to go go shopping buy
00:17:42
something for their mom I'll give you some money afterwards that is your ruse but at some point if she if she starts
00:17:49
to figure you out or or if you just want to change it completely to take to take
00:17:57
the lead you could present yourself as an authority figure you could say something to this child of look you met
00:18:05
a stranger at a location and you left with them you're in big trouble here young
00:18:12
lady right you're in big trouble if your parents find out about this you're going
00:18:16
to be in big trouble I'm a police officer I'm undercover and we're doing these type of operations and you could
00:18:23
present yourself as some type of authority figure it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility we at some
00:18:29
point what we do know and can surmise just based off of simple logic at some point she knew that whatever he you know
00:18:39
the shopping trip was not going to happen at some point she knew he was not who he says he was and at some point he
00:18:46
took control of the situation now that could have been seconds before she was killed it could have been hours it could
00:18:51
have been days but we know that that happened at some point and that's why I go I go to him because the the ruse that
00:18:58
he was using at the time is not terribly unsimilar to what was used against Amy mhm but I think the problem with Stanton
00:19:09
as good as a suspect as I think that he makes and as good as a well as terrible of a human being that
00:19:16
he is I mean we already the difference between oh [ __ ] well the difference between him and several of the other
00:19:23
suspects that that are often brought up is he is a known pedophile he is a he's been convicted multiple times on
00:19:32
multiple accounts we know that he is in fact this in fact somebody that would be
00:19:38
looking for a victim of this age and her gender the the problem is can you put him in the immediate area that day or
00:19:49
leading up to the abduction that gets very difficult to do because this man was already on the Run he's not he's not
00:19:57
got a a permanent address on paper right right and that's that again but that makes
00:20:04
me that makes him a better suspect in my mind since he is on the run that he has
00:20:10
been able to have the ability to find locations so the fact that you know it took so long um I mean what was it
00:20:18
almost 3 months between the abduction and when she was discovered correct this person would have uh the knowhow uh to
00:20:28
find a location and and possibly have her there alive for a while um yeah as terrible as it is to say this
00:20:40
Stanton sicko Stanton he would have been skilled at this right unfortunately I mean he it's it's not his first time now
00:20:50
the other thing too with him being on the Run captain that makes him interesting is does he really need to be
00:20:55
accounted for that day that evening the next day you know we we don't we don't have we don't even know where he was
00:21:02
right um we know he was on the run but he fled in the summer of '89 we know that his vehicle was found
00:21:10
in Ohio in December of '89 and then later we have reports that he was still in Ohio in morine Ohio yeah in October
00:21:20
of 1990 so we can't really put him in the immediate area on October 27th 1989 but
00:21:29
we can put him in the state of Ohio for the the time of the abduction roughly and the whole time that she was
00:21:39
missing so he's he's an interesting suspect again the issue becomes how did he get the phone numbers to contact
00:21:49
these girls how did somebody on the Run somebody unfamiliar with the area no ties to the area how would he have come
00:21:58
into communication with with Amy plus with the others that received phone calls that were connected to Amy's case
00:22:06
right in Amy's case and in others I'm not going to say all but it has been reported that the phone numbers were
00:22:15
unlisted so it's not as easy as some have pointed out where they say well you could have just been driving down the
00:22:23
street and saw a potential victim and followed her home and said oh they live at 123 James place I'm going
00:22:32
to get into the phone book and try to find that address and phone number and now I can call that number it's just it
00:22:39
wasn't that easy in in some of these cases so Stanton looks good because he would
00:22:47
be the type of offender that would carry this out the issue again is putting him
00:22:52
there at that time and giving him the the knowledge he would need to carry out a ruse that was similar to he had in
00:22:59
other cases well and like you said before with other suspects law enforcement saying they don't believe
00:23:05
some of those suspects are capable of a crime like this law enforcement is definitely probably saying hey yeah he's
00:23:12
capable of this more than capable [Music] yes this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
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shopify.com podcast [Music] free [Music] all right we're back you filthy animals
00:25:03
every one of you filthy as hell um okay so captain now let's get into Dean RL our Dean RL info obviously has several
00:25:12
sources but the main source uh for the first part is a bombshell article from the Cleveland Scene titled Person of
00:25:20
Interest the FBI finally has a top suspect in the Amy mahalic murder and this of course by James rener and the
00:25:29
article is from 2008 now the article starts off by repeating statements from an eyewitness
00:25:37
on the day Amy was abducted this states that the eyewitness saw a man walk up to
00:25:42
Amy put his hand on her back he leans down to whisper something in her ear then the man puts an arm around Amy's
00:25:51
shoulders and leads her away this eyewitness is Amy's age and describes the man as Caucasian his hair is thick
00:25:59
he is wearing a beige windbreaker with plaid lining front pressed khakis and a button-up shirt we'll come back to this
00:26:07
eyewitness in in a bit the article states that just like Amy at least three others received phone calls similar to
00:26:16
the one that Amy said she received before she was abducted as we've commented over the years this number
00:26:23
should be debatable we've seen higher numbers but the worst directly from law enforcement are that they believe there
00:26:30
were two or three calls related to Amy's case the girls in this article of course now
00:26:39
they're they're grown up these girls went to school in North hestad Ohio North Olstead is about a 15-minute Drive
00:26:47
south of Bay Village so not far away and more importantly the Two Towns would have shared the same area code
00:26:56
216 this is important as it is believed that the call to Amy that set up the arrangement to meet at the bay Square
00:27:03
shopping center came from Amy's area code remember we talked about billing and how billing was conducted by the
00:27:10
phone companies back in 1989 right everybody who hears this case at the first they go well why the hell didn't
00:27:17
they just Trace that call they were only billing longdistance calls differently than local calls so there's no record of
00:27:24
local calls because they don't bill for them they just charge you for the monthly service same goes for these
00:27:30
other two or three calls they would have come from that 216 area code now that is
00:27:38
still a huge area that's still a large population but when we're talking about a case that has gone unsolved for 30
00:27:44
years we have said how many suspects there are this somewhat at least shrinks that pull a bit mhm let's take that info
00:27:56
and go exploring show so let's say those calls are in fact connected that the caller to the three girls in northstead
00:28:04
is the same man that called Amy so now this means you need to find a link between these four girls Amy included
00:28:13
all of whom we should mention were 10 or 11 years old at this time the link could
00:28:20
be a person place a club or an organization it could be anything but it needs to connect all four girls and this
00:28:28
unknown suspect the article states that in early 2005 an agent working the Amy case contacted the girls from
00:28:39
northstead the agent wanted to know if the girls went to the lake Eerie Nature and Science Center they had and in fact
00:28:48
the article claims they each went there in the weeks leading up to Amy's abduction Amy too went to the Nature and
00:28:56
Science Center but the Artic article does not specify when her last visit was or how close to her Abduction the last
00:29:03
visit would have been that information may not be known to anyone at this point including the police and FBI but what we
00:29:11
do know and can say is Amy had been to the center before and on multiple occasions keep in mind this Center is
00:29:20
close in proximity to both her school her home and the bay Square Shopping Plaza and B Bas off of where the other
00:29:29
three girls attended School Amy would have lived closer to the center than all three of them the three girls were asked
00:29:36
if they remembered signing in at a check-in or a log book by the front doors of the center MH this being
00:29:44
writing their names and phone numbers in this book this question received a mixed
00:29:50
response from the now grownup girls but keep in mind this is 15 and a half years
00:29:59
later right eventually at least two of these now grown women contacted James rener passing along that they had been
00:30:08
questioned about their possible connection to the lake Eerie Nature and Science Center back in
00:30:13
1989 then a man contacted rener about someone he was told was the suspect that the police may have been asking about a
00:30:24
man who once had volunteered at the Nature Center and who was a science teacher back in 1989 that man was Dean
00:30:33
RL Dean was born in New London and grew up not far from where Amy's body would be found just a little more than 3
00:30:43
months after she was abducted this is most interesting as retired special FBI Agent Phil torney
00:30:51
who is currently active on Amy's case and has been for years stated that he believe that Amy was transported out of
00:30:59
Bay Village after she was kidnapped as the town is too dense too close-knit to be a likely place to commit murder he
00:31:08
stated that the murder likely took place in Ashlin County which the murderer was
00:31:13
probably familiar with rle was born in 1944 After High School he attended Bowling Green University majoring in
00:31:22
education he got his first teaching job teaching science at sailor way Middle School this was in
00:31:30
1967 he earned the young educator of the Year award while teaching there he was also a pretty good ragtime piano player
00:31:39
good enough to play at Cedar Point for a regular gig during the summers in fact one point he quit teaching and played
00:31:46
piano at Disneyland for two years yeah eventually he went back into teaching yes and then he did quit again in
00:31:55
1987 at this time he returned to New London and moved back in with his parents he got a job working at a pet
00:32:03
store it is said that when the store when the store's mice population became overwhelming RL donated mice to local
00:32:11
nature centers some have said he very likely gave some to the lake eie Nature Center so if the lake Eerie Nature
00:32:21
Center and Science Center is in fact the link between these four girls Amy included and if the calls were in fact
00:32:28
connected Dean RL would have been someone probably linked to the center during that time in the fall of 1989 and
00:32:39
just side note we all know Amy was abducted in the fall of 1989 RL applied for and was hired at horde Jor high in
00:32:48
Amherst Ohio RL continued to work there until 2003 and after that he moved to Florida now early earlier we spoke about
00:32:58
the young person who saw the man approach Amy that day outside of the shopping plaza now over the years this
00:33:05
eyewitness has been shown many photos of men and asked if this man looks like the
00:33:11
man you saw with Amy that day right it was reported in this article that when this witness was shown a picture of Dean
00:33:18
rle the response was there have not been many photos that have been this close I
00:33:25
would definitely tell them meaning law enforcement to investigate this guy this is interesting for several reasons we
00:33:34
have one of the I Witnesses being shown a photo and saying hey this out of all the photos that I've seen today and out
00:33:41
of all the photos that I've seen over the years this guy looks the closest out of all the photos I would tell
00:33:48
investigators to look into this guy the weird thing about rle is we know that he
00:33:57
was a teacher and there have been many people that have gone back and tried to well not tried to they did interview
00:34:04
former students of his MH just like some of the other other suspects that we've discussed today and on yesterday's show
00:34:12
it's really a mixed bag of opinions about this individual there are some that say you know Dean did some weird
00:34:19
things and he was a weird guy he was odd he was even creepy at times he said some
00:34:24
strange things right like to handle rats that's weird but then there were other there were other kids that had the you
00:34:32
know very extremely positive things to say about Dean RL saying that he really inspired them to continue their
00:34:39
education and inspired them to go into teaching themselves or really got them to take a strong interest in science and
00:34:48
some in biology and some of the things that Dean was doing in his classes so again a mixed bag of opinions about his
00:34:56
nature and his behavior right but just to be clear you could be you could have sick fetishes and still be a good
00:35:03
teacher or good worker well yeah you could be you could be the best guy in the world one minute and then be a total
00:35:13
you know a-hole the next I I don't doubt that at all but the reason why I point that out is there are so many things out
00:35:20
there that just straight up label him as a creep right and I think you know if we're going to if we're going to label
00:35:27
him a creep I think that's hard to do on our show because I'm seeing mixed opinions
00:35:33
by by you know his students throughout the years right but out of all the suspects when you see Dean rl's picture
00:35:42
and you see the sketch you go well there's your guy I mean this is it almost looks like a drawing of his of
00:35:51
his picture what I would label the third composite sketch yes right there there again is where I think we have a problem
00:35:58
with there being a composite sketch out there or the fact that there's there was
00:36:03
four of them that's what I'm getting at he where you would say he looks like the
00:36:07
third one you may not say that he looks like one two or four right so right that's that's where
00:36:13
that composite sketch gets a gets a little weird now also the other thing too is this individual and I look I
00:36:22
believe her statements if she's saying this is the closest that I've seen s and I don't doubt that statement at all I
00:36:31
don't doubt that she believes that to be true the other thing we have to keep in
00:36:36
mind along those same lines though this she was abducted Amy was abducted in October of 1989 this witness saw this
00:36:44
man for a very limited time at the Plaza on that afternoon and then is seeing this photo of Dean RL 19 years later
00:36:53
right in 2009 the Cleveland Scene ran another article this one is titled new witness to Amy's abduction ID's rle it
00:37:03
says and I'll just read the first part of this article because it's not a long one for nearly 20 years Rick Burns
00:37:10
waited patiently for the police to return to his Auto Body Shop across the street from the station to show him
00:37:17
photos of the man he saw with Amy mahalic the day of her abduction but they never came Burns maintains that
00:37:26
strange man with shaggy hair parked in a sedan in his personal space closest to the Bay Square Plaza on October 27th
00:37:36
1989 he remembers the date because it was also the day he brought in his newly restored truck to the shop to show off
00:37:44
to his buddies and was miffed to find that somebody had parked in his spot Burns says the strange man later pulled
00:37:52
around the shop to the pumps where he was standing in the back seat was a young girl he believes to have been Amy
00:38:00
mahalic the man asked Burns for directions to I 480 and then left two days after Amy disappeared FBI agents
00:38:11
came to Burns's shop and to look through receipts for the previous two months they took his statement and that was
00:38:20
that he never heard from them again now Burns reviewed a series of photographs of suspects and
00:38:28
non-suspect without hesitation according to this article Burns picked out former
00:38:33
Amherst Middle School science teacher Dean rle as the man he saw at his shop that
00:38:40
day basically this is an eyewitness statement saying within days of the abduction I gave a report to police that
00:38:49
I saw a man shaggy-haired man asked me for directions and in the back seat of his car I believe was Amy mahalic right
00:38:59
I then waited for nearly 20 years for them to come back and show me pictures of possible suspects they never came
00:39:07
back wow all right where do we start here because this looks bad for rle on the surface but when you really kind of
00:39:14
start scratching and clawing through this statement and through this article look I believe this article was written
00:39:19
with the best of intentions I also believe that Rick Burns is is a good guy and means well and means the best for
00:39:26
the situation and probably is just simply trying to help yeah but who's the article written by um I believe it was
00:39:34
written by well there's there's multiple reporters involved in this article so I
00:39:38
don't want to I don't want to cite anybody specifically without having all the names but what I'm getting at here
00:39:44
Captain is we now have a very public statement by the Bay Village Police dep Department that says that kind of
00:39:53
contradicts the statement given by Rick Burns in this article okay so their statement is yes we did talk to Rick
00:40:00
Burns within days after Amy's abduction yes he gave a statement he his statement
00:40:07
at the time says he didn't see anybody he didn't see anything suspicious he didn't report anything suspicious the
00:40:13
article says he reported something suspicious and then waited nearly 20 years for the police to return to ask
00:40:20
him questions again Bay Village Police Department are also on record saying that Rick is a very good guy he's done
00:40:27
nothing but try to help this investigation but the problem is they're going to believe his statement that he
00:40:35
gave within days after the abduction and not the one that he came back to give them nearly 20 years later which they
00:40:42
say is a different story I've not seen the police reports I've not seen their notes I've not seen the case File I do
00:40:50
believe everything they're saying though for several reasons I do believe Rick Burns is probably a good guy that only
00:40:56
wants wants to help I also believe that he probably believes somewhat what he's saying now saying that he saw just
00:41:03
misremembering it it probably wasn't Amy and it probably wasn't on the day in question right and the reason why I say
00:41:09
that is for several reasons he says the girl that I saw in the back of the car I
00:41:16
believe was Amy mahalic well if you're saying that within two days of the abduction one if you believe that prior
00:41:25
to that statement if you've already made that connection in your mind prior to that statement you
00:41:31
should have gone to the police yourself to give that statement not waiting for them to come to you to look for receipts
00:41:37
receipts and then ask you questions right and then on top of that if you firmly believe that that is in fact what
00:41:44
you saw then you don't wait for them to come back to you you remind them hey I have information that I've passed
00:41:50
along what's going on with this yeah and I think with Rono there's a leap to kind
00:41:55
of figure out how he got the numbers to make contact with these girls if they are
00:42:00
connected uh the Nature Center I don't think there's 100% proof of that I think the tough thing about RKO is that he
00:42:09
passes the eye test of one of the the drawings and I think that's hard to for people to get around you see those
00:42:17
pictures side by side and you go well that looks like the guy and I I think people have a hard time uh moving on
00:42:24
from that so I mean there are some other suspicious things with rle I mean you said that and you're exactly right in
00:42:32
your statement of we can't 100% connect him to that nature center and some are saying that
00:42:39
the Nature Center is kind of the intersection between these girls and the killer where where that gets a little
00:42:48
skewed is we can't 100% put him there however it has been reported that he has that RL has made made some incriminating
00:42:57
statements in regards to his involvement or possible involvement with the lake eie Nature Center again we don't have
00:43:06
100% proof from law enforcement stating that he was a volunteer around that time
00:43:11
that we can put him there within the weeks or months leading up to the abduction he does have a general
00:43:19
knowledge being from the the roundabout area where Amy's body is found was found
00:43:25
and that seems to be a general consensus amongst the experts in her case that the
00:43:31
killer the abductor knew that area that there was something familiar or something something that is of bigger
00:43:40
importance to the killer rather than just driving and driving and driving and coming to a place out in the middle of
00:43:47
nowhere and dumping the body so there is a connection there as well right um but
00:43:53
again I'm I'm with you Captain it's uh loose these are loose connections some of them seem a bit of a leap we
00:44:02
would be remiss if we didn't bring up a rumor regarding rle and I State this as a rumor because I've seen people try to
00:44:12
prove it either way and I don't know which to be true right the other rumor is that at some point in his teaching
00:44:22
career they became aware the Educators became aware that they did not have rle fingerprints
00:44:29
on file and this is something that's standard practice throughout the state of Ohio right when they learned this and
00:44:36
he wasn't the only one there were other teachers throughout the state that they did not have their fingerprints on file
00:44:41
and what they did was to try to bring their records up to date they went around to all these teachers and said
00:44:46
hey we need you to go down here and get fingerprinted we're just going to add it
00:44:49
to your file no biggie and the rumor is that when approached with this request rle who was close to retirement who was
00:44:57
close to collecting a pension retired without notice without pension and that he just left very quickly after this
00:45:08
request yeah that's very fishy that's true there are people that say that that is not in fact true I can't prove it
00:45:16
either way and that's why I took you and that's why the captain took you through
00:45:19
his work history we know when he was employed with the state of Ohio as a teacher and we know when he was not
00:45:26
employed now Amy was abducted in 1989 he didn't you know he continued to work there until
00:45:33
2003 it probably wouldn't be that hard to figure out if there's a connection between him and like oers or something
00:45:40
and if if he is receiving some kind of uh you know pension for from the state that would kind of clear up that rumor
00:45:49
well and I I think you're absolutely right on that but I've seen people with two different claims and both stating
00:45:57
that they have evidence from the state of Ohio to back up their claims and they're saying opposite things one is
00:46:03
saying he retired without a pension and retired abruptly well we just need somebody that works at oers to be a
00:46:11
little shady and then the other saying in fact he continued to work there and submitted to their request so I can't
00:46:19
say for certain which one is right you're right uh somebody that's on their lunch break at oers give the captain a
00:46:24
call mhm he's available well send me an email and then just tell me tell me the information and I know you're breaking
00:46:31
the law and you might get fired for it but chances are you're not going to get caught those records might be public
00:46:38
record at some point they might be they might be okay well can we move on from rle in in a
00:46:45
sense that as much as we could from any of these suspects bun rle mhm right I think all of them look good in some form
00:46:53
or fashion and they're all being present presented this week as suspects that we
00:46:58
believe that if anybody gives a [ __ ] that the garage is list these people would be in our top 10 you know there
00:47:06
are reasons we see to dismiss some of these suspects but also plenty of reasons to keep them on the list as
00:47:14
suspicious characters one thing that I think we should include on our top 10 suspect list would be the unknown male
00:47:25
Theory and in actuality this Theory may have the highest probability out of any of the
00:47:33
suspects so one of the leading detectives on the case back in the day we already discussed him Jim Tomkins
00:47:41
said quote of all the suspects 20 to 25 were most interesting but we have never had the sense of yes this is our guy
00:47:52
authorities believe the unknown male is still out there and there are ways to catching him there are several ways in
00:48:00
fact first are the things Amy had with her that day Amy had these things when she was taken after all of these years
00:48:09
of searching none have ever been found some are rare enough to be memorable and unique enough to be clearly
00:48:18
identifiable as we have said before it is not unusual for this kind of criminal to make the Arrogant error of keeping a
00:48:26
momento of his crime a trophy if the unknown male kept one or more of these objects even for a short time someone
00:48:34
might have noticed the more distinctive of these items is a pair of shoes when her body was found Amy was dressed
00:48:42
almost exactly as she had been when she disappeared in October but forensic investigation has confirmed that she was
00:48:49
not simply seized and slain she had eaten again and after she was taken so she ate at least once the experts are
00:48:59
certain that her clothes had been removed then put back on her body after death all except her shoes and her
00:49:06
earrings the shoes were uncommon there were black leather ankle boots with vertical rows of silver
00:49:13
studs some have theorized maybe the killer had a problem getting them back on her feet yeah he either tossed them
00:49:21
out or maybe he kept them for a period of time now Steven says the earrings are even more likely souvenir items they are
00:49:31
particularly important just the kind of things the offender might give to another female they were tiny blue
00:49:39
turquoise silhouettes of horses heads according to Amy's mother they were mounted on gold metallic
00:49:46
studs Amy also had her school backpack which was a fairly common blue denim design with red piping and black plastic
00:49:55
buckles and a plain white nylon windbreaker the last item Amy's dad gave her this black
00:50:04
leather folder with a brass clasp on it and it had the Buick 3 Chevron logo and the Legend Best in Class on it this is a
00:50:15
fairly unique item as well another thing that could get this individual apprehended is actions and
00:50:22
behaviors of this unknown male a tip needed from someone in the public to put law enforcement onto the right guy here
00:50:30
are some notes from the Thomas Kelly Cleveland magazine article this is from the experts regarding the makeup of this
00:50:38
unknown male obviously because his identity remains unknown these are simply theories not facts but they state
00:50:46
that some of this information when he is finally caught will be remarkably close
00:50:51
to much of the description provided by FBI experts they go on to talk about the suspect
00:50:57
composite sketch that was released and saying remember the undistinguished drawing of the slightly built man
00:51:05
unremarkable in appearance they say forget it at least set it aside because it could be that the poster man is not
00:51:14
an accurate portrayal of the unknown male they say this is very possible because the eyewitnesses would have had
00:51:22
no reason to scrutinize this man there was nothing extraordinary about his actions or
00:51:29
appearance Ren emphasizes that people should not hesitate to contact law enforcement if they have some
00:51:36
information but the man doesn't look like the drawing and he goes on to say I cannot say that strongly enough even if
00:51:44
you suspect somebody and he doesn't look like the drawing regardless that there are four
00:51:50
of them out there contact law enforcement yeah they go on to state that the offender what they can say for
00:51:57
certain right is the offender is a white male at the time of the crime he is believed to be 25 to 35 years of age
00:52:05
this would have put him if he was in his late 30s to mid-30s would have put him older than the average for firsttime
00:52:13
child aggressors they State he is not remarkable in appearance he's within average ranges of height weight and
00:52:19
build he may look presentable but not accomplished or professional he is soal marginalized according to Eder not in
00:52:28
the mainstream not a run of the-mill Citizen he won't fit in with his peers very well especially women and the
00:52:37
people who know him will describe him as odd or difficult it's likely that he was
00:52:41
living alone with a single roommate or maybe still at his parents house at the time of the crime it is most unlikely
00:52:50
that he was in a successful marriage with a normal Home and Family Life one of the most intriguing aspects of the
00:52:57
report is that the killer was most likely to have undergone some sort of dramatic change in his behavior
00:53:03
personality or appearance in the weeks preceding the crime he developed a sudden compulsion or obsessive disorder
00:53:12
experienced a personal catastrophe or an emotional setback he may have started drinking heavily or stopped drinking
00:53:19
suddenly he may have gotten into hard drugs or quit a drug habit there was a drastic change in his life maybe a
00:53:27
sudden fascination with a cult or radical religious group dick Ren says something happened to this man in the
00:53:34
fall of 1989 something that would have been noticeable to close friends or relatives there was a pre-event stressor
00:53:42
something that took him from fantasy to action this may have been reflected in a
00:53:47
dramatic change in his physical appearance he let his hair grow long or cut it very short his health suffered
00:53:54
his weight fluctuated there were changes in his appearance or lifestyle in addition one important logistical aspect
00:54:03
should be noted this man was not passing through authorities are confident that the unknown male has reason to know this
00:54:11
area there is the need for such a predator to select a hunting ground where he can move comfortably through
00:54:18
the Tall Grass another expert explains that the Ashland County location is just as important this was not random when
00:54:28
you are disposing of something that could ruin your entire life you are going to be careful the unknown male
00:54:34
knew County Road 1181 he had been there on that lonely stretch of asphalt before he knew he
00:54:42
could quickly Place Amy's body just over a Shallow Ridge a few yards from the pavement and expect that it would go
00:54:50
undiscovered for weeks or maybe even months Ren confirms this this conclusion saying yes we think he was familiar with
00:54:58
Bay Village and familiar with the area in ashin the experts go another step saying we believe he had knowledge of
00:55:07
the family personal knowledge in considerable detail I could go on and on with this unknown male Theory I do think
00:55:16
that this is one that deserves to be on the list a lot of people were out there going well you didn't make it through 10
00:55:21
of course we didn't make it through 10 there this is such a huge case and we still have some suspects that we
00:55:27
would like to vet a little further to see if they should fall on our list I think the ones that we covered this week
00:55:34
are very good suspects they they should be and are on other list out there yeah I think they're the most popular yeah
00:55:42
and and this case along with several others out there but you don't see this in a lot of cases I would describe this
00:55:49
case as having a tornado of suspects there there are so many of them out there and when you try to wrap your head
00:55:56
around it you can't because it's like it's like on The Wizard of Oz when when Dorothy is being taken away and you can
00:56:02
she sees uh the farm hands for a little bit then she sees the witch for a little
00:56:07
bit and then she sees yeah and that's what this case is like it's a tornado of suspects when you try to focus on one
00:56:13
there's one another one that will fly by and pop in your mind and another will come up here and there throughout uh
00:56:20
your time on this case now there are some truly great sources for information on Amy's case
00:56:30
unfortunately when a case is 30 years old and 30 years unsolved many different people have had the opportunity to take
00:56:37
a look at it offer their opinions expert opinions and tell the story of the abduction and the
00:56:46
investigation we have bitten off a big chunk of that I think in our coverage on True Crime garage now at five episodes
00:56:55
dedicated to her case but if you need some more and if you want to know where some of this information came some of it
00:57:02
ripped right from the pages uh we used sources like the plane dealer magazine this was in October 21st 1990 issue
00:57:11
where they featured an article called Amy by Michael Heaton we obviously talked about the Cleveland magazine
00:57:19
October 1998 article titled who killed Amy by Thomas Kelly the of course is James renner's book Amy my search for
00:57:27
her killer and there is also who killed Amy mahalic a podcast by our good friend
00:57:33
Bill Huffman so there are plenty of sources out there at some point if there is some new
00:57:39
information we will revisit Amy's case again and probably again until this thing is solved I will say this though
00:57:49
Captain coming up on the 30-year marker of that tragic day of that that terrible
00:57:55
day right I find myself after looking into this case again within the last few weeks of a restored hope I I wasn't
00:58:07
going you know when we covered this in June just before crime con I said this to a few people at crime con and thanks
00:58:16
to everybody who made the trip I said this to a few people at crime con but I I refused to say it on
00:58:22
our show and I told you this off mik at that time I had lost all hope that this thing would ever
00:58:29
be solved and I I I just want to throw it out there that that's how I felt at that time and I want to throw it out
00:58:35
there that within the past few weeks that hope has been restored I'm feeling better about this case as we're moving
00:58:42
towards that 30-year marker well and I think it's that's one of the reasons why we we cover these things to try to get
00:58:48
the word out I think it's going to come information is going to come from a unlikely source and and that's going to
00:58:56
lead us to some [Music] answers Nick do we have a recommended reading this week why of course we do
00:59:09
Captain this week we are recommending the blood on My Hands by Shannon oi this is an
00:59:16
autobiography but it's a story about her family and a story about her and unfortunately it involves horrific abuse
00:59:24
and a ter terrifying murder that played out behind the scenes of her family life
00:59:28
so check out the blood on My Hands by Shannon o you can find that title as well as a bunch of other ones if you go
00:59:35
to True Crim garage.com and click on the recommended page and until next week be
00:59:40
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