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welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and
00:01:52
with me as always the Brazilian bombshell he is the captain I'm neither Brazilian or bombshell I do not know who
00:02:00
writes these things well it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for
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listening thanks for spending your time with me and and the other guy and thanks
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for telling a friend tonight we are drinking circuit Bohemian pilsner by the powerful and
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big-hearted peeps over at Tin Man Brewing Company in Evansville Indiana oh oh good garage grade 3 and2 bottle
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apps out of five circuit Bohemian pilzner conducts a thrilling Buzz to your senses with bright color Clarity
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mild Aroma and energizing flavor you have a mild Aroma and this fantastic pillner was
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brought to us by first up we have Marissa and Ann Arbor Michigan next we have Ellie in Manchester Britney and
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Phoenix and ly B from Spokane washing Spokan Washington we have lazette from Long Beach she says Captain hit me up if
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if you're single well this is a true crime show not a dating show next we say hi to April in Aberdine South Dakota we
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also have Katrina from Chicago she says try some pipe Works ninja verse unicorn I've actually had that before that's a
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fine fine beer next we get a hello from Barbara and Fresno who says she loves listening to Nick and the nasty Captain
00:03:22
what does that mean I think she means you're funny you're like a funny guy I I've never caught a comedian nasty hey
00:03:29
Eddie Murphy you nasty you're so nasty and a big shout out to Nicholas from The Big Easy Che is mates we also have Karen
00:03:36
in Massachusetts and Patrick in southeast in Massachusetts thank you for the love Patrick we got Judith from
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Ontario and Jeffrey from Harper faery West Virginia all right we got any birthday shoutouts we do we have a
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birthday shout out from Rachel to Rebecca in Illinois and also Alexandra would like to wish her boyfriend a happy
00:03:58
30th on June 5th all right cheers mates and uh like your jib next up in Parts Unknown oh we got more we got more man
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the beer fun is all right this is why you have to be patient people cuz I I don't want to read 500 you know shout
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outs every show next up from Parts Unknown wait we have an announcement from the town crier the flag football
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signups are this weekend at the mess hall there is a $50 signup fee but you can wear whatever Flags you want so in
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Parts Unknown we have Vanessa line Jude Laura Alissa Patty Nikki and Andy and just a reminder to everybody at parts
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unknown when you take a shower in the communal showers please close the curtain we have some jibs flapping
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around gross all right that's enough of the business for everything true crime garage go to True Crim garage.com all
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right gather around grab a chair grab a beer and let's talk some true crime this is true crime
00:05:10
[Music] garage and this is the case of the deli [Music] murders [Music] been nearly 24 hours of course since
00:05:50
they were reported missing 13-year-olds Liberty German Abigail Williams last scene around 1:00 Monday afternoon near
00:05:57
the monan high bridge that abandoned rail Bridge just outside of Deli now news 18's Brad opheim joins us now live
00:06:05
from Carol County where that surge continues at this hour Brad Jeff like you said Liberty German
00:06:12
and Abigail Williams were last seen yesterday afternoon when they were dropped off near that bridge now they
00:06:17
had made arrangements to be picked up by family members later that afternoon but
00:06:21
they never showed up now a staging area has been set up at the deli fire department and since I've been here I've
00:06:27
seen hundreds of people come in and out of this staging area we are told that volunteers will be sent out in groups
00:06:33
where they will comb the area in efforts to find these two girls I was able to actually catch up with Abigail Williams
00:06:38
mother Anna Williams and she says she is Amazed by the outpouring of support from
00:06:42
the community I also spoke with the Carol County Sheriff Tobe lesen and he says they are working with officials on
00:06:48
getting an Amber Alert issued just in the last couple hours I have been at the staging area I've seen and spoke from
00:06:54
volunteers that don't even live in Carroll County including one man from West Lafayette who came over and joined
00:06:59
the search he said he has a teenage daughter himself and wanted to do what he could to make sure those girls make
00:07:04
it home [Music] safe well as you heard in the trailer there we have two missing girls and this
00:07:26
is a very popular case right now it's it's on the news maybe you've seen the Billboards but in Deli Indiana there's
00:07:34
been a homicide there's been two homicides of teenage girls and they went missing on Monday February 13th later
00:07:41
that week the bodies are found it's ruled a homicide and they're looking for the guy or killers that committed these
00:07:48
crimes now the thing here is this is actually very different from what we would normally cover and I know it
00:07:55
doesn't sound so different right away but when I say February 13 I mean February 13th
00:08:02
2017 usually we don't cover cases this recent this is a very not just ongoing investigation like we see in a lot of
00:08:10
the cold cases that we've covered but this is an investigation that is is very hot right now it's it's it's heated up
00:08:17
there's a massive Nationwide search for a suspect and there's a couple things that become pretty difficult for us to
00:08:25
produce the show about this case one law enforcement's keeping a lot of things close to their vest um that way when
00:08:32
they do have a suspect that they can charge it'll be more likely that they can actually get a conviction MH uh so I
00:08:39
think that's smart on law enforcement but it's hard to produce a show right um talking about this case the other thing
00:08:45
is there so there's not a lot of evidence out there there's a bunch of weird speculation um and there is nobody
00:08:55
arrested yet correct and this was a case that we were getting request from all over the country to cover this thing
00:09:03
late February and this is relatively close to us uh probably the biggest case in
00:09:10
Midwest right now yeah and we kept talking about covering it because this is something we're incredibly passionate
00:09:15
about as the captain said we're close to where this took place um this is an ongoing investigation that we've been
00:09:22
keeping up with in the news and trying to keep track of ourselves the problem was we weren't really equipped to cover
00:09:29
it in late February there wasn't a whole lot of information out there now we sit
00:09:34
here in in May and maybe there's not that much more information that's been released since then but we we feel an
00:09:41
obligation to cover it at this time they're they're hunting this guy I believe they can find him and we'd like
00:09:47
to do our part yeah and our part is just to you know shed some light on this case
00:09:51
M put it in the put it on the desk of some armchair detectives talk about the timeline talk about some theories maybe
00:10:00
some suspects maybe somebody out there could add some value to the case well let's start off with the timeline
00:10:07
regarding The Disappearance investigation regarding the murders of young Liberty and Abigail um to Pro to
00:10:14
provide you with a little bit of background so this all starts on Monday of February 13th this is the Carrol
00:10:20
County Schools they only have a half day of school scheduled for this day so only
00:10:25
classes for the first half of the day because the rest of the day they've scheduled some teacher conferences and
00:10:31
staff meetings at 1 p.m. a family member drops off the girls at a trail near the
00:10:37
moanin bridge now this is an abandoned railroad bridge over Deer Creek around 5:30 p.m. the girls fail to show up at a
00:10:46
predetermined location to be picked up by a family member the family looks for the girls searching the immediate area
00:10:54
when they turn up nothing the girls are then reported missing so almost immediately these two young girls are
00:11:00
reported missing that night a large search effort involving volunteers and multiple law enforcement agencies well
00:11:07
that's underway they scour the area in an attempt to find Liberty in Abigail the search is then called off due to
00:11:14
Darkness and that's not none of this is too weird at first right I mean we've all been dropped off by a a you know a
00:11:21
parent maybe you and your friend are going to go to the mall maybe you're going to see a movie your parents are
00:11:25
going to drop you off and we're going to meet meet up at this time mhm now be the before the age of cell
00:11:31
phones you know that would be way different because you couldn't text if there was a um you know a [ __ ] in the
00:11:39
plant snafu yeah so this is pretty simple though but we have a gap of roughly 4 and 1/2 hours yeah the girls
00:11:46
were going to go out and enjoy the weather that day it was unseasonably warm for February in Indiana and they
00:11:52
were going to go out hiking for a while they're supposed to be picked up at 5:30
00:11:56
p.m. they're nowhere to be found so around mid midnight that night the Carroll County Sheriff this is to laen
00:12:03
he says uh that they are going to call off the search you know it's getting very dark out at that time they they had
00:12:10
no reason to expect or suspect Foul Play or believe that the girls were in any immediate danger now their biggest
00:12:18
concern at this point would be exposure to the elements because it is a February
00:12:22
night and even though the day was quite warm it's going to get quite cold that night and the girls were hiking just
00:12:27
outside the town of Deli which has a very small population of 3,000 smaller community and even though that the
00:12:35
search was called off around midnight now some Searchers lingered and it's believed that they were still searching
00:12:41
the area until about 2:30 that morning now Tuesday February 14th early Tuesday morning the search resume resumes with
00:12:49
with teams of volunteers they have police officers the effort also includes can9 units and dive teams around noon
00:12:58
searchers find two bodies this is about a half mile to 3/4 of a mile away from the bridge that they were they were
00:13:06
walking on that they were dropped off nearby right so let's just keep this clear they're dropped off on Monday at
00:13:11
roughly about 10000 p.m. to go hiking mhm people search Monday night they can't find anybody they don't find the
00:13:19
girls they come back Tuesday and roughly in the afternoon they find the bodies of
00:13:24
the two girls yeah it's right around noon on that Tuesday now at 2 p.m. this is a news conference takes place this is
00:13:32
all the authorities involved you have the Carroll County Sheriff you have the city of Deli police chief and an Indiana
00:13:39
State Police official they announced the discovery of the bodies but they give no
00:13:44
indication of their identities they say for the first time that Foul Play is suspected in connection with the case uh
00:13:51
when pushed by media as to why Foul Play is expected a public relations officer simply says they they suspect Foul Play
00:14:00
because the way the bodies were found meaning just immediate obvious signs of of Foul Play to those people that found
00:14:06
the bodies right and they're not releasing if there was any trauma what kind of wounds there were if
00:14:13
they were if there were any wounds if there was any sign of strangulation or anything they're not releasing any of
00:14:19
that there's no specifics now I believe it was firefighters that may have found the bodies and even though the sheriff
00:14:25
and the state police do not immediately identify the found bodies I believe when
00:14:30
the firefighters radioed this in they said we found the missing girls and it's not good at 400 p.m. on Tuesday Deli
00:14:39
community schools superintendent Gregory BRS releases a statement saying that the
00:14:44
bodies found in the afternoon are those of the two missing Deli Community Middle
00:14:49
School students and despite no confirmation from police he's stating that it's the two girls we were looking
00:14:55
for ble says that a grief counselor will be made available to students and staff
00:15:00
and he later says that school security will be stepped up and all of the after school activities at Deli Community
00:15:07
Middle will be cancelled for the remainder of the week and a local Methodist Church is going to hold a
00:15:13
candlelight visual again at this point law enforcement is not making the statements or the claims that these are
00:15:21
the missing girls correct because on Wednesday February 15th at 8:00 a.m. the autopsies are conducted in Tera Co
00:15:29
regarding the bodies discovered during Tuesday's search now there local law enforcement and authorities are going to
00:15:35
hold a meeting afterwards this is around 10:00 a.m. on Wednesday uh Sergeant Riley with the Indiana State Police
00:15:43
provides a brief update on the investigation he says that the autopsies are complete uh but he declines to
00:15:50
confirm the identities or discuss a suspect or person of interest in the case he says police have received
00:15:57
hundreds of tips from the community community and he advises parents to keep a close eye on their children and
00:16:03
monitor their whereabouts at 300 p.m. on that same day Indiana State Police and the Carroll County Sheriff's Department
00:16:10
hold a news conference confirming that the bodies found on Tuesday are those of Liberty and Abigail they say the case is
00:16:18
being investigated as a double homicide they say they don't believe that there is any immediate danger to the community
00:16:25
that same night at 7:00 p.m. Indiana State Police release a photo of a man reportedly walking on the trail around
00:16:32
the same time of the girl's disappearance now they never say that this man is a suspect they they supplied
00:16:40
a photo of the man and they say we would like to talk to this guy we believe we have identified everyone that was
00:16:47
walking in the area of the time when the girls went missing but this guy was there around that time we have not
00:16:53
identified him we would like to speak with him we would like to find out if he has saw anything or maybe he might know
00:17:00
something police say they want to talk to this individual but again not calling him a suspect how how did they get the
00:17:06
picture we we'll get into that on Thursday February 16th at 6: p.m. the police set up a tip line for anyone with
00:17:14
information regarding the case and they can call 844455 786 that tip line is still
00:17:22
working today they say that they've had upwards of 250 tips so far at this point
00:17:26
in the investigation at 7 :45 p.m. the Indiana State Police serve a search warrant in connection with the case at a
00:17:34
home in Deli but no arrests are made well this is not the only search that's going to take place no there's there's
00:17:42
several search warrants that will be issued and executed um because they they're looking for people in the area
00:17:49
right and we have one individual where his property the the bodies are found on his property they will conduct the
00:17:56
search of his property as well as his home um it was also misreported in the media that they had received multiple
00:18:04
search warrants for this guy's property when in fact it was other nearby properties that they were searching as
00:18:11
well that that people because this is a rural area the media thought that this was still a continuation of his property
00:18:18
which which it was not now there were several search warrants conducted as we said um and all of these none no arrests
00:18:26
are made at the time there there's one in particular that was that that will get to um he's not arrested regarding
00:18:33
crimes involving the murders or The Disappearance of these girls um but police keep reminding everyone that they
00:18:41
should not be creating rumors or just because somebody is questioned or someone their property is searched that
00:18:49
that does not mean that they are a suspect in the double homicide that there's they still have to conduct a
00:18:55
certain level of police activity and Sh Sheriff activity of other things that were going on before these crimes took
00:19:03
place well this is a lot harder to do in such a small community yeah everybody's
00:19:07
eyes are watching you now on Saturday February 18th there is a public visitation for the girls this is held at
00:19:14
the deli high school now on Sunday we're going to see a little bit of Shifting Gears here in the investigation on
00:19:21
Sunday February 19th the Indiana State Police say that the man photographed walking along the trail around the times
00:19:30
of the girl's disappearance is a suspect in their deaths they again though they do not know the identity of this man so
00:19:37
what I'm going to do is I'm going to post this picture on our Instagram now if you're sitting there thinking hey I
00:19:42
don't have Instagram it's okay go to our website at trem garage.com you'll actually see a a a page that has just
00:19:50
the photos from our Instagram on it and you can click on there to see the photograph of the man on the bridge on
00:19:57
Monday February uary 20th police say they are conducting a Statewide man hunt for the man scen in the photo and tell
00:20:05
everyone to continue providing information via the hotline set up for tips in this case the Carol County
00:20:12
prosecutor he cautions Deli residents not to harass bother or accuse anyone especially those who live at a home that
00:20:22
was the subject of a search warrant that was served the previous week now on Tuesday February 2 first an official
00:20:29
says that Deen's death could lead to security changes along the monin High Bridge Trail now this is they're going
00:20:37
to possibly talk about installing security cameras and things like that this is an area that uh while it was
00:20:44
frequented by hi hikers it's also frequented by teenagers that are just kind of hanging out and you know doing
00:20:51
what teenagers do now on Wednesday what's that um you'd have to ask the teenagers well you're saying something
00:20:58
something that's pretty telling as you were saying that hey we might be we might have to beef up Security on this
00:21:04
this bridge and this these hiking paths right and we got to do so by adding a camera again so how the hell did they
00:21:12
get a picture of this guy well that that's perfect because that leads us to what took place on Wednesday on February
00:21:19
22nd the investigators hold a news conference to update the status of the investigation police revealed that
00:21:25
Liberty Germans she recorded video and audio of the suspect that they are seeking on her cell phone the
00:21:33
Indiana State Police releases an audio recording of a man's voice saying down the hill do you have a copy of that that
00:21:41
we could hear all right so obviously that's not the best quality and it's just a loop of
00:21:54
a man saying down the hill down the hill and that's what the law enforce is providing to the public correct now we
00:22:00
should assume that that's not the only audio clip that they have that is just the clip that they decided to Loop and
00:22:07
give to the public yeah they're they're stating that that Liberty or Libby uh had video an audio on her phone and the
00:22:17
thing here is like like the captain said we don't know how much video was recorded we don't know how much audio
00:22:23
was recorded did she simply hit the record button on on her video and or what picture were taken either exactly
00:22:30
but at the same time they announced that the audio is is from the prime suspect in the deli double murder case and
00:22:38
authorities announced that a $41,000 reward for information leading to a to an arrest in the girls murders that that
00:22:45
reward has started off pretty small and it's it's growing at this point it's at 41,000 back in February 22nd let's talk
00:22:54
a little bit about the elephant in the room okay so did they find so I'm I'm assuming that
00:23:00
law enforcement found Libby's phone and that's how they'd have this information and then you'd think well if somebody
00:23:07
attacked these girls if this you know if it was murder then this you know guy must have been you know pretty dumb to
00:23:14
leave the cell phone well there um with them there have been a lot of questions about Liberty's phone you know first off
00:23:23
how much audio and video was recorded I have heard there is as little as 6 minutes I have also heard that there may
00:23:29
be more as little as 6 minutes 6 minutes is a long time it's quite a bit of time
00:23:33
but I've also heard that there may be more than 40 minutes recorded yeah that's that's a ridiculous amount of
00:23:39
time so there are reports saying that that 6 minutes of audio tape contains the horrifying record of the homicide
00:23:48
itself uh so if this were true the attack would have happened very quickly but we do know that there was some video
00:23:55
recorded right before the abduction we're assuming um this is where they got the the picture of the man walking on
00:24:01
the bridge uh we also know that there was some recording of of audio uh that may have you know when he's saying down
00:24:10
the hill what kind of instruction is that he's he's directing these girls somewhere is it to a vehicle is it to a
00:24:17
different location um but I'm guessing that that if I had to get you know we don't know how long her phone would have
00:24:25
recorded before it before it died you know but I'm guessing that that we're thinking there is more audio and more
00:24:33
video than just 6 minutes in my opinion but the other rumor is the question about the phone is you know where where
00:24:41
is this phone because at 5:30 p.m. and for several hours Liberty's phone was pinging all over town the the phone was
00:24:50
not in her possession during this time is what would make you think because where she disappeared is near where
00:24:56
she's found well you but also it's such a rural area that you'd you I would just
00:25:02
assume M that you know if you're in this you know you're hiking that maybe You' you'd be kind of pinging from all
00:25:09
different locations and how um how much validity should I put on that how much weight should I put on that M and well
00:25:19
and the thing here too the fascinating question about the phone is whether or not it was recovered you know there
00:25:25
there's a theory that Liberty's phone was not recovered and all of the audio and video was taken from the from the
00:25:32
iCloud the from so basically what happened was like if you record a voice memo on your phone and you have your
00:25:40
Cloud set up that it instantly goes to your Cloud as well right so what they're saying is you know and this is very
00:25:48
important I think for people to kind of wrap their head around this is something you shouldn't
00:25:54
spend a bunch of time on was the phone left or or was it you know or was did did the did the killer take the phone it
00:26:03
doesn't matter we have the information at least from the cloud right right well let's go do you mind if I go through
00:26:10
some options here because of you know what if it if it was not if it was not recovered um you know then the theory
00:26:18
would be there's only a few theories you could come up with right that Liberty got rid of her phone at some point maybe
00:26:24
she threw it in the woods um you know she could have thrown it in the woods to to avoid it being found by their
00:26:32
abductor um maybe somebody would find it later um again her phone is pinging all
00:26:38
over town for several hours during the search now I've been told that this would be possible if the phone were in
00:26:45
the woods or near the woods where the girls were abducted um that the phone pings um look it's not something that
00:26:53
I'm going to pretend that I fully understand so I'm just going to have to believe the person that told me that if
00:26:59
the phone were in the woods or near the woods it very likely could have pinged all over town um this would make sense
00:27:06
if the phone was in the woods but it appears now uh possibly you know who knows where this thing was the other
00:27:14
idea is that the killer found Liberty's cell phone uh so the killer either disposed of the phone you know threw it
00:27:20
in the garbage or or threw the phone in the river or destroyed it by Smashing it
00:27:25
to bits and that's why it's never been found um I think if the phone was not recovered the killer probably did
00:27:33
something with it I think throwing it in the river might make the most sense right um because he's hoping to destroy
00:27:40
whatever's on that phone right because the thought process here for this individual and I would just assume this
00:27:46
IND individual is in their mid-30s to 50 right I'm just going to put that age range out there and I would just assume
00:27:56
that they thought well if if let's say they saw Liberty use her phone mhm and maybe said oh well she pushed record it
00:28:04
this guy might not understand how the phone actually works but thinks well if I just throw it in the river it
00:28:09
destroyed and they'll never have the evidence right well aha we have this thing called the cloud and this is where
00:28:17
technology you got to applaud technology at this point right yeah yeah cuz you can have your phone set up in a manner
00:28:23
that it will immediately send information to the cloud well and the reason why I saying applaud technology
00:28:28
is these might be the clues or the evidence that you have to present in in in a trial to lock this person up for
00:28:37
the rest of their life MH now on Thursday February 23rd the state police they say that they've received 3,900
00:28:46
tips in the case with 1,900 of them coming in after the release of the audio recording and then there's another
00:28:54
donation this is from uh US Representative Todd uh Rita uh he donates his office donates 9,000 so now
00:29:02
the reward amount is now $50,000 yeah but the Indianapolis Colts they they donated some money as well
00:29:10
right yes yeah the the reward in this case will grow exponentially over the next couple of weeks on this same day on
00:29:17
February 23rd the Indiana State Police announced that the FBI has taken over the tip hotline well let's get right
00:29:25
back to this case after this quick beer break [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do
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[Music] that all right we're back cheers mates cheers so we're talking about The Disappearance
00:31:32
and the murder of two young girls we have Liberty who is 14 years old and we have Abigail who is 13 years old and you
00:31:40
might often hear both of them refer to as Libby and Abby these are best friends they're dropped off near the moanin High
00:31:47
Park bridge and they disappear they find the bodies just the day later and announce the day after that it is in
00:31:55
fact the bodies of the two two young girlss now where we're at on the timeline here this brings us up to
00:32:01
Tuesday February 28th by this time police have received close to 10,000 tips the reward money is
00:32:10
now $100,000 but police are also saying despite rumors that they have not made any arrest in connection with the deaths
00:32:19
of Liberty and Abigail police asked the public not to jump to conclusions or to spread rumors on social media because
00:32:28
there was a lot of questions involving their deaths there's like the captain said earlier not a lot of information
00:32:34
that's being released as far as the investigation and details of such but we do have some evidence that's coming out
00:32:41
we're having this information that's collected from uh Liberty's phone correct and what we have so far is we
00:32:48
have a picture that we can assume is maybe taken from a video or a Snapchat we're not really for
00:32:56
sure mhm and and we have a audio clip a very small one saying down the hill looped and again we can assume that
00:33:04
there's more audio information on our phone again now with the phone we don't know if the phone was recovered or if
00:33:10
this information was recovered from the cloud mhm now on Wednesday March 1st this is when the Indianapolis Colts they
00:33:18
donated $97,000 to bring the reward money to $200,000 that same day the grandparents
00:33:26
of Abby Williams they leave a an emotional note at the police headquarters that expresses their
00:33:33
gratitude for those involved in the investigation and those investigating the case the we we don't need to go through
00:33:41
all of the donations um because for the next few days we'll we'll continue to see local companies donating money but
00:33:48
one thing that was interesting was we also had a donation from the Lowe's company that's the the Home Improvement
00:33:54
do-it-yourself store they donated 1,000 orange light bulbs to the residents of deli and they did a campaign called
00:34:03
light up Deli you know everybody would install these orange light bulbs on their front porch lamps to you know as a
00:34:10
tribute to Abby and Liberty um and I saw pictures of of that light up Deli and it
00:34:16
was a pretty cool memorial that the whole city was able to take part in all right so where are we add on this
00:34:21
timeline on March 9th Mike Patty he's the grandfather of Liberty um he will speak to the media for the first time
00:34:29
since the deaths of Libby and Abby he thanks the community for outpouring of support and says that he believes tips
00:34:37
will help solve this case well we have this individual like we said the picture and there's an interview that I heard
00:34:43
but by a local man and the sheriff mhm and both of them in the interview which I thought was interesting and I think is
00:34:50
kind of telling of where the sheriff might or where the law enforcement actually might believe they're at in
00:34:57
this scenario mhm they have this individual and like I said we have a very small town roughly about 3,000
00:35:03
people and two individuals that are on the phone the one was a local man interviewing the sheriff and both of
00:35:09
them stated this guy didn't recognize him and so when you released this photo the guy
00:35:16
that was interviewing the sheriff was like look I was hopeful that you're going to release this photo and would'
00:35:20
be able to identify this guy it's a small town but neither this man nor the sheriff were able to identify this
00:35:28
individual and like we talked about before there's tons of um well maybe we didn't talk about this before but there
00:35:34
was tons of billboards across the country I think in 43 States it was yeah it was it may have been all of the major
00:35:44
48 states but it was something yeah 43 46 some odd states that they put these Billboards up there was actually one a
00:35:51
few miles from my home uh there's a major road there and they had one and it has a picture of both both of the
00:35:57
victims as well as the the pixelated picture the grainy picture that we see of the suspect along with the phone
00:36:04
number in the email that you can submit these anonymous tips to which makes you wonder if law enforcement believes that
00:36:11
this uh individual is traveling like maybe a truck driver or or something of that nature yeah maybe he wasn't local
00:36:20
maybe he was somebody that fled the area after the the case went underway right so let's just dive into this photo real
00:36:27
quick and again I'm going to post this on uh our Instagram which will also be visible on the website if you don't have
00:36:33
Instagram so maybe you can take a look at this individual and maybe pick up some things that others aren't so
00:36:40
discussing the suspect the guy in the photo right um an expert on CNN said that they suspect that this person is
00:36:49
about 5' 10 180 lb with a bit of a middle-age man's stomach punch um law enforcement their latest estimate is
00:36:59
that the man is 40 to 50 years old now I've seen the photos in my opinion I think that seems a little young to me uh
00:37:09
I I look at this picture now and and mind you yes this is a grainy photo or or pixelated might be the better word to
00:37:16
use here but I see you know I don't think they're far off I see more like 45 to 55 years old MH I definitely see the
00:37:24
Ponch you know the the bit of the beer belt there well he's also bundled up with a coat and a jacket mhm yeah yeah
00:37:32
he he appears to be wearing layers of clothing um and this could be this could be a manner of disguising himself um but
00:37:41
another reason is this might have left few areas of his body exposed uh and this would be where the girls could
00:37:50
fight back you know they could leave scratch marks on him when they fight back and maybe his intention was to
00:37:56
cover up as much of himself as he could right but but regardless remember we said it was unseasonably warm that day
00:38:03
he is definitely overdressed for that day mhm there he he has a hat on of some nature I don't know if it's a it looks
00:38:12
kind of like a ball cap but it could be a tobogan uh also he has his hands in his pockets and uh it's a blue jacket
00:38:22
with blue jeans now yeah and so there's a and it looks like he's wearing and a hoodie under the jacket so definitely a
00:38:29
little over uh Dressed well and you bring up a good point there because early in this investigation amongst the
00:38:37
public there was quite the debate over whether the guy was wearing a hat or not or maybe if he just had a hoodie pulled
00:38:44
up uh covering his hair the thing here is they actually released two pictures um and in one picture to me it looks
00:38:54
like I'm seeing hair you know like almost like there's a part in the hair uh and this would be what is that brown
00:39:02
to to maybe dark brown hair yeah or maybe has some uh salt and pepper the other the other thought was that if he
00:39:11
was wearing a hat uh which this might go along with the theory that he was trying
00:39:15
to disguise himself or cover up of as much of himself as he could um that it it could be a camouflage hunting cap
00:39:25
with padded ear muffs you know the kind that kind of drops down over your ears on both sides and that making it hard to
00:39:32
tell from the distance that this picture is taken now one thing I've noticed it looks to me like some have suggested
00:39:40
maybe he's wearing a scarf around his neck um the way that that thing catches the the light the thing that's hanging
00:39:49
from his his neck in the and seen in both pictures it almost looks like it could be the corner of like some goggles
00:39:57
you know like the like goggles that aren't on his head but they're kind of hanging from his neck yeah I see that
00:40:04
Poss possibly yeah one thing I want to point out here too as we're describing this picture is there's a a man by the
00:40:12
name of Robert Lindsay he's a uh a writer and blogger he spent a lot of time covering this case and a lot of my
00:40:19
research came from some articles that he has written uh but law enforcement States that the guy could be wearing a
00:40:28
fanny pack um now Robert Lindsay will point out that what law enforcement is referring to as a fanny pack is actually
00:40:37
called a deer kit um this is something that would contain like knives scissors you know different things for cutting up
00:40:45
a deer after you kill it um so Robert Lindsay is going off of the theory that the guy is possibly a hunter yeah well
00:40:55
when you see again his hands are in his pockets and there's something on his right by his right hand side where it's
00:41:02
either you know a a t-shirt or something that's coming out from underneath his jacket or again like you said it's some
00:41:10
kind of pack fanny pack or uh some kind of hunting pack and and and not the close-up picture but the picture that's
00:41:19
a little bit further away it definitely looks more like some kind of fanny pack yeah and it and like Robert said it
00:41:26
almost looks too flat to be a traditional type fanny pack to me again we're looking at a picture that's taken
00:41:33
from quite some ways away um but it does look flat if it is in fact a deer kit I
00:41:40
would think that Robert Lindsay might be right regarding that the guy could be a
00:41:45
hunter because I don't think that that's something that would be common knowledge
00:41:48
to everybody that that such a kit even exist right and we were talking earlier and I was saying that necessarily just
00:41:55
because there's a a picture of this individual doesn't mean that this individual was or a possible suspect now
00:42:02
where I'm going to come back on that on is that we know this this picture is coming we can assume from Libby's phone
00:42:11
MH so therefore they have to know more about this footage than we do yeah uh and I then my argument too is like isn't
00:42:20
there wouldn't there be a better picture of this individual yeah um now now he's
00:42:25
on a bridge right mhm so the other thing that we kind of need to bring up is uh Snapchat
00:42:32
right so we all see teenagers always on their phone taking pictures of all these
00:42:38
things at some point from Libby's Snapchat she takes a picture from the bridge MH and she takes a now I'm
00:42:47
assuming that she's taken a picture of Abby of Abby and aby's walking it's a very interesting picture and I think you
00:42:54
need to take a look for yourself th this picture would have been released on her
00:42:59
Snapchat account I believe at 2:07 p.m. um they were dropped off at 1 this thing
00:43:06
came out about 2:07 p.m. so the thought is you know for at least the first hour or so of their hiking trip everything
00:43:14
was going according to plan everything was you know it was a normal day out hiking right and like we said there was
00:43:20
roughly about a 4 to 4 and 1 half um hour window so now now that we know that this is you know released about an hour
00:43:29
into the hike now our Windows a little bit smaller if you look at this picture that
00:43:34
she took on Snapchat now it's very grainy but there's uh on the bridge there's these little platforms on the
00:43:41
side it seems like she's standing on one of the Platforms in the background this
00:43:46
is something that people have talked about in the background there's something on the other side of the
00:43:51
tracks there's like a shadow or a dark figure dark spot on the p picture well I and I see that I'm going to try to make
00:44:00
mine uh the picture bigger uh because I want to I wanted to present something to you yeah I I I can
00:44:09
see the one that you're talking about um here and there's a few some people have made an argument
00:44:18
and I think maybe a decent argument that there might be a hidden object so to speak in this
00:44:23
picture yeah so here's what's weird is when you start researching this case a lot of people say well there's this
00:44:30
individual that's there I don't see that I see these like two almost like sticks
00:44:37
or whatever and if you really zoom in I'm I know this I'm going to have to edit thish yeah but basically what what
00:44:43
people are saying is that is that a man that is hiding watching Abby right but not on the bridge not the on the end of
00:44:51
the bridge or you were saying even possibly in the woods to the right yeah there there's speculation about both so
00:44:58
the dark spot you were talking about would would put would position this person if they're in fact there right
00:45:03
but behind these little two dark spots what I see is two headlights and a white vehicle that's what I see MH you know
00:45:12
now is there a dark spot 100% uh there's 100% a dark spot is it a person watching
00:45:18
her on the bridge I can't come to that conclusion it looks to me at that portion of the picture this would be if
00:45:26
you're looking at the picture of Abby at home this would be right at the start of
00:45:31
the bridge or maybe even just before you get to the bridge on the left side of the picture you can see what appears to
00:45:37
be two dark spots now the captain's saying he sees a possible vehicle behind the dark spots well yeah but there's two
00:45:44
dark spots so I'm not I don't want to go too far down this rabbit hole but two individuals standing in front of a a
00:45:52
white vehicle that is certainly a possibility but that that portion of the picture itself to me looks like an area
00:46:00
that might create a lot of Shadows um we can see from Libby walking that uh I'm sorry Abby walking there that we can see
00:46:10
her Shadow to the left of her she's facing us her Shadow is to the left of her so if if there were trees or some
00:46:17
kind of obstruction back there just before the bridge they might be casting a shadow that that we're seeing creating
00:46:25
that dark spot leading to the bridge the other portion that was talked about was
00:46:30
to the right of this now this would not be the entrance to the bridge this would
00:46:35
be in the woods to the right of the entrance of the bridge there's a dark spot that appears near a tree or either
00:46:43
behind a tree I can definitely see the dark spot other people have pointed out that that could be a man in dark
00:46:49
clothing standing there um I I don't see a man at all um I it could just be I'd like to see a
00:46:58
photo of that's taken at the same time of day on another day you know what I mean with similar conditions to see if
00:47:05
there's the same kind of shadow effects or the same or even dark spots presented
00:47:09
yeah and again just you know take a look at it I mean maybe you can add something
00:47:13
to the conversation I want to stay on the photo of Abby here for a minute from the from the Instagram uh or Snapchat
00:47:20
and I and I hate Libby Snapchat yeah and I hate to get all you know where's Waldo
00:47:25
on you but it it's very interesting because there could be a clue that's hiding in
00:47:31
this picture here um and and another thing that people have discussed and this is not the vehicle that the captain
00:47:37
was referring to but is there a car in this photo or some type of vehicle that is in this photo now if you're looking
00:47:45
at the picture of Abby on the bridge okay and I want to be clear because there's many different versions of this
00:47:51
same picture some of them are cropped but if you look at one that shows her feet she's wearing some kind of tennis
00:47:57
shoes if you can see her feet then you might be able to see what what I'm going to point out here um the in in the lower
00:48:04
left corner of the photo of Abby on the bridge this would be below the bridge itself um is there a vehicle there now
00:48:14
no one no one knows for sure if that's a car or not in the photo many people say
00:48:18
that they cannot even make out a vehicle in that photo I can see a vehicle in this photo um but what I can't tell you
00:48:28
is is this some kind of Illusion is this the trees and such is it the background
00:48:33
just showing some kind of pattern that resembles a vehicle or is there actually a vehicle there now I've been told that
00:48:42
there is a road there that this is this road would be a very little used road and that almost no one has you know no
00:48:51
no one even really knows about this road they've not heard about the road it's it's quite hard to find it's hard to get
00:48:57
to S like our podcast it appears to have been a road that was used by workers uh
00:49:04
to maintain the bridge at some point um but the new rumor going around says that
00:49:09
law enforcement believes that the Killer's vehicle was parked at a trail head on the South Side so is it is it a
00:49:19
vehicle is it the suspect's vehicle we can't say for certain that it is a vehicle I personally I think I see a
00:49:25
vehicle there right I I actually think law enforcement is talking about the vehicle that I think I see uh we'll
00:49:32
actually talk about it CU there was a vehicle that kind of matches that description that was impounded recently
00:49:37
I we'll get to that later the other interesting thing about this is as like I said the technology we have no way of
00:49:44
knowing which per uh which picture was taken first mhm so you know are we getting this Snapchat picture was that
00:49:52
taken before uh or after the picture of the suspect I don't think that's common knowledge I have to ask you a question
00:50:01
because there's you you had stated you think that law enforcement might be talking about the vehicle you think you
00:50:07
see right and I I want to kind of back up that a little bit you might be on to something here because if in fact law
00:50:15
enforcement believes that the Killer's vehicle was parked at the trail head on the South Side that's where the picture
00:50:20
would be pointing or the camera would be pointing would be the South Side Right possibly the only the only problem with
00:50:27
that is I've heard that people have said that it appears that she's walking northward on the bridge that she's
00:50:33
walking towards the north if she were in fact walking towards the north then the
00:50:38
shadow of her is in the wrong place does that make any sense it should be on the
00:50:44
opposite side of her if she's in fact walking northward however people that are familiar with that bridge they think
00:50:50
that the portion of the bridge behind her is the south side yeah and I but I think I think
00:50:56
also depending on what camera she's using the camera would be flipping well and that's why I wanted to ask you this
00:51:04
question because you you know you have a better knowledge of cameras than I do you have a better know knowledge of
00:51:10
Snapchat than I do I've I've heard I've heard it suggested from both viewpoints that that a camera could reverse it or
00:51:20
SnapChat might reverse the image yeah I'm I'm not 100% let's I don't I don't know I I just know
00:51:30
that if you take a picture that's normally a coming you know uh the way Snapchat does it you can flip it okay
00:51:40
so she could have flipped it yeah so but but no what I'm saying is that if you just open it up and take a picture I
00:51:49
don't think it flips it let's see I'm going to take a picture of you and nope it doesn't flip it okay so so it's
00:52:00
possible that she's walking Southward if we if we are to believe the Shadow or if
00:52:05
what anybody says out there regarding Snapchat or possible the camera phone that that the image is flipped then she
00:52:12
is in fact walking northward and we would be seeing the south end of the bridge yeah I'm going to believe whoever
00:52:20
you know is more familiar with that area well that's interesting podcast you talk
00:52:26
about a bunch of visual stuff yeah we got all visual there but I I would I would beg to argue see can you see it in
00:52:31
your mind's eye I would beg to argue that by this point um with our our listeners that they've probably seen the
00:52:38
pictures of the man they've seen the pictures of uh of her on the bridge well most people listen on their phone so
00:52:45
they can kind of just listen in the podcast while they Google image this stuff mhm on Monday March 13th remember
00:52:52
the trail safety task force this was the one that was set up to beef up Security
00:52:57
in the area they meet to discuss security gaps along deli's trail system and they start making recommendations
00:53:05
for potential changes now on that Friday the 17th the Indiana State Police the FBI and Carroll County sheriff's
00:53:15
deputies they serve a search warrant at the home and property of Ron Logan who owns the property where the bodies of
00:53:23
Abby and Libby were found mhm in February now Logan is taken into custody earlier that week before they serve this
00:53:32
search warrant uh but he's taken into custody on unrelated charges so DUI charge yeah so let's discuss this a
00:53:40
little bit what he was on probation for DUI uh and I don't know if he's had several of them or what his history is
00:53:47
with this but we know he's on probation for DUI what takes place is they are aware that he's broken the the rules of
00:53:56
his probation he is not to be drinking and he's not to be driving well he when asked where he is that day he's he
00:54:07
starts telling them that he was out buying tropical fish um and that he had to drive somewhere x amount of miles
00:54:13
away spent a good deal of time there and returned home with these tropical fish well that puts him in in one problem
00:54:20
because he is not supposed to be driving right so he drove him some self somewhere and furthermore I think they
00:54:29
have evidence that he was actually at a bar drinking for a portion of that day as well so he's now not only has he
00:54:38
violated his probation Logan was getting his Day drink c yeah Not only was he violating the probation by driving by
00:54:45
drinking by probably drinking and driving but it also looks like he's not been very forthcoming with law
00:54:52
enforcement about his whereabouts or what his activities were that day well he might be so drunk he can't remember
00:54:59
well in in his defense now now he looks hang on here Captain I'm just I'm laughing
00:55:07
cuz it's it's the guy that drinks a lot coming to the defense of a guy that drinks a lot well the in his defense um
00:55:16
he might not be sorry he might not be fully cooperating with police because he's terrified of getting busted on
00:55:23
breaking his probation Char well right that into and then look let's let's be honest if if you had property more than
00:55:32
let's say a couple acres or or whatever property you have if if individuals are found and they were murdered they were
00:55:39
murdered and they found on your property you wouldn't you feel protective yourself mhm like you
00:55:46
know why why wouldn't you believe that you're a possible suspect from the word go yeah and and even when he wasn't
00:55:54
forthcoming with with police um we have seen him been been somewhat forthcoming with media you know he gave several
00:56:01
interviews there's there's interviews of him walking the media people around on his property yeah if you if you just uh
00:56:08
do a YouTube search for you know uh Deli murders a lot of the reports they'll have different individuals that live in
00:56:15
the area and you'll see this individual over and over yeah and we should be clear about his property right you know
00:56:21
it's not like it's not like my neighborhood where all the homes are on a plot of land that's about 5,000 square
00:56:28
ft now he's got a big sprawling property it's not like they found them right in his backyard beside his house and where
00:56:38
these nature trails are and where these people go hiking it's it's not always clear it wouldn't be clear to you and I
00:56:45
hiking through there where the hiking trails end in Ron Logan's property begins mhm Friday March 24th the
00:56:54
authority parties announc that the investigation into the teens's death will begin to look a little different in
00:57:00
the coming weeks as they begin the normalization process in this investigation I think that's kind of
00:57:08
them stating to us to not expect to see additional photos or video or maybe even
00:57:15
audio coming out within the next few weeks that they're going to it's going to be more of your traditional
00:57:21
investigation at this point Thursday April 27th the victims families announced plans to rebuild a sports
00:57:29
complex with several softball fields in honor of the girls and this fundraising event will be held on July 15th now
00:57:38
regarding the investigation you can see there's there's very little information that has
00:57:45
come out M which is which in a way is shocking because you see rarely are you ever presented with a photo of what they
00:57:54
are telling you is the prime suspect in a double homicide yeah but again depending on what news source you get
00:58:01
that from some say this is the prime suspect some people just say we believe this individual is on the trail roughly
00:58:07
around the same time as them mhm the my issue with it is you got to know where that they got to let you know
00:58:17
where that photo is coming from right because is that cuz to this day I still I'm not 100% sure that it's from her
00:58:25
phone well it might not it might not but but we if we go off of the announcements
00:58:31
and the press conferences that they have made the statements that they have made
00:58:35
now mind you they've been cryptic along the way but according to those statements they eventually say you know
00:58:43
this guy goes from somebody they want to talk to to now he's the suspect this guy
00:58:48
that we have the picture of he's the suspect and and furthermore they believe that the audio they provide
00:58:55
us of going you know down the hill down the hill that audio is of that suspect as well and that's why I think that
00:59:03
makes me wonder if it's a there's a video at some point yeah because then you can because then in a court of law
00:59:09
you can show a video and say see this is these are words are coming from this individual's mouth yeah and and and
00:59:16
furthermore I think what that points out is that there is additional audio and video and there's something on that
00:59:22
audio and video that's made law enforcement make the connection between this guy just being a picture of some
00:59:30
guy and him actually being the guy that most likely committed the crime now um you know again it's curious to wonder
00:59:39
how much of of what they have is actual video and how much of it is just audio and with so much you know little
00:59:49
information that's coming out like we said this is a hard one to discuss and there is a bunch of room rumors and
00:59:55
speculation and that's what we're going to have to get into in the next episode yeah and I think that that's the big
00:59:59
problem that the public is having with the investigation right now not so much the way that law enforcement is
01:00:05
conducting the investigation but because they saw a picture because they heard audio and they have no other answers for
01:00:12
other things that it's leading to those rumors and to speculations and of course
01:00:16
questions you know people want to know what's going on I do want to remind everybody out there that uh the
01:00:22
Sheriff's Office the uh indana State Police they have they continually remind us um that they they are worried that
01:00:33
because there's so much talk and there's so much going on in the public eye there's so much speculation that that we
01:00:39
might believe us being the public we might believe that they're very close to solving this case they could be they
01:00:45
could be but they continually remind us to not believe that we cannot think that
01:00:51
they're close to solving the case they still need more tips to come in they don't believe that that one tip that
01:00:56
they're waiting on has reached them yet and if the public believes that they've solved it or that they're seconds from
01:01:03
solving it maybe they never get that tip so this is a very active hot fire investigation going on right now if
01:01:10
anybody has tips if anybody has any information at all even even if you think it's a minute detail please
01:01:18
contact them and that phone number that we said earlier is still good that phone
01:01:22
number is 8444 59 5786 those calls are being manned by the FBI you can also send email to Abby and
01:01:32
Libby tip CA sf.com again that's Abby and Libby tip atca sf.com we'll put both that number and
01:01:45
email in the show notes in case anybody needs that information so tomorrow what we're going to get into is some of the
01:01:52
speculation some of the theory series some of our thoughts we actually reached out to uh some web sluther and kind of
01:02:00
got their got the web sluth Community involved and kind of dive into some of those theories as well and we'll get to
01:02:08
that on tomorrow's show and please take a second to go look at those photos to see maybe you could bring something to
01:02:15
the conversation again Abby and Libby were only 13 and 14 years old and you possibly can help in this case please
01:02:24
take a minute to do so now thanks for joining us in the garage we'll see you tomorrow and until then be good be kind
01:02:30
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handle the rest of your project from start to finish so remember Angie's List is now Angie and we're here to get your
01:03:22
job done right get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app today