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brand [Music] [Music] never [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:48
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who was a feminist before he even knew what the
00:01:53
word meant he is the captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to to see you happy
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national women's day yeah cheers to all the lady listeners out there it's ladies
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night in the garage Captain we are very happy to be drinking tweak Bourbon Barrel age Stout by Avery
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Brewing Company tweak yourself garage grade 4 and 1 half bottle caps out of five check out this American Imperial
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barrels from the very cool people at Avery Brewing and tweak was brought to us by these very cool people first up we
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00:05:07
right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime except for Darren no beer for
00:05:23
[Music] Darren [Music] investigators say Bob Evans is responsible for the deaths of Denise
00:05:40
Bowden four unidentified people in Allenstown and yuno June let's take a closer look at exactly who these victims
00:05:48
are now we begin with Denise Bowden who graduated from gtown high school in 1976
00:05:54
she worked at Carol cable and the demmer's nursing home in Manchester before her disappearance now when Bowden
00:06:01
was 23 years old she lived at 925 Hayward street in Manchester with Evans who was her boyfriend at the time
00:06:09
shortly after Thanksgiving in 1981 Bowden disappeared her body never found four years later the bodies of an adult
00:06:17
woman and a female child related to that woman were found in a barrel in a wooded
00:06:22
area of Allenstown the adult described as a white woman with brown hair 23 to 33 years old the the child described as
00:06:30
white and between the ages of 5 and 11 then in 2000 two more children were found in barrels on the same Allenstown
00:06:39
property both girls were around 2 or 3 years old new DNA results show that the girl on the left is the daughter of Bob
00:06:46
ebans and the girl on the right is also related to the unidentified woman found in the first Barrel none of the bodies
00:06:54
have been identified fast forward a year later in August 2001 yunsun June had an
00:07:01
unofficial backyard marriage ceremony with Evans in Richmond California she was reported missing in September of the
00:07:08
following year and later found buried in her basement a couple of months later Evans was arrested and eventually
00:07:15
convicted for her [Music] [Music] murder we have been discussing the Allenstown 4
00:07:34
the four unidentified victims that were found in Allenstown the first two found in a barrel 1985 the second two found in
00:07:42
a almost exact same similar Barrel in 2000 and these victims have remained unidentified well in January of this
00:07:51
year there becomes a huge break in this case yeah so the New Hampshire attorney general announced that they believe that
00:07:58
they have discovered the man involved in the Bear Brook murders also known as the
00:08:02
allent towns 4 to be clear here the state of New Hampshire attorney general he announced in a press conference that
00:08:09
after 30 some years of looking the police are confident in regards to the four female victims found in Allenstown
00:08:17
in the two barrels they now believe that they have their man which is pretty crazy though right because I mean this
00:08:22
is the first time that I've ever heard of a case where we we identify the murderer mhm M but we still can't
00:08:30
identify the victims yeah and he starts off the press conference by saying that that exact same statement you really
00:08:37
yeah that that usually you know you have to there's the that General process that
00:08:41
you identify the victims and you take it from there and then you you catch the killer this situation quite a bit
00:08:47
different but that they're putting out this information because they're hoping to receive some information in return
00:08:54
now the thing is we're going to see that there is a lot of information that's still needed on this case this is is
00:08:59
going to be something that you're going to see worked very hard in the next year
00:09:03
or two and I think we're going to see further information come out but let's go through what we do know as of this
00:09:10
year so the New Hampshire attorney general stated that Robert or Bob Evans is believed to be the killer of these
00:09:18
four victims so who is this Bob Evans actually can can we call him Robert Evans Captain I don't want to disturb my
00:09:27
my weekend breakfast um so Robert Evans is a man that just pretty recently police have been able to place him in
00:09:34
New Hampshire as late as 1981 and we will show you how they are able to connect him to the four female victims
00:09:41
in Allenstown but to do so we have to first talk about California because Robert Evans was serving a 15-year
00:09:49
sentence for murder in California for killing his girlfriendwife this is unson June right and to do that we got to go
00:09:57
back to the year 20 2 yeah September 2002 this story starts starts off in California's Contra Casta County and we
00:10:07
have a missing person's case the person in question is unson June the first signs emerg that there is something that
00:10:14
is not right when she did not show up for a scheduled lunch with a friend she also started missing her regular pottery
00:10:22
classes that she attended a friend of jun's was dissatisfied with the answers that she was getting in regards to
00:10:29
June's whereabouts from her husband she stopped believing explanations and excuses as to where her friend was and
00:10:38
then she calls the Contra Costa sheriff's department and the friend decides to file missing person's report
00:10:45
in this report the friend States the last time that she had seen unson June was around May 31st 2002 and she at this
00:10:54
point she was married to Robert Evans yeah they had some people will refer refer to them as husband and wife or
00:11:00
they will refer to this Robert Evans as a boyfriend um because they were married
00:11:06
in some like backyard ceremony so it wasn't like super official um what happens is after that missing person's
00:11:13
report is filed the sheriff's department their missing person's crime unit they decide to go do a welfare check at the
00:11:20
woman's home which is located in East Richmond Heights mhm uh the husband a man who is actually going by the name of
00:11:29
Larry Vanner told the investigators that she was out of the state and he like he's he's very Cooperative with the
00:11:37
people that you know now we we we have to we have to kind of touch upon something
00:11:44
here and it's going to come around full circle and we can explain it as we go um
00:11:49
but we're going to start to see a lot of different names in this story and a lot
00:11:54
of those names are being used by one character so Robert Evans is using multiple names throughout this story
00:12:03
when Larry Vanner and Robert Evans are the same person we will get into that a little bit later you'll see how that's
00:12:09
connected M so when Larry Vanner he's so Cooperative with these investigators we
00:12:17
should just say Larry AKA Robert okay Larry AK AKA Robert is so Cooperative with the investigators that he even
00:12:25
agrees to go down to the department to answer some questions regarding the whereabouts of his wife they interview
00:12:32
him for quite some time um and Vanner was given a phone and he makes a phone call he calls a number a number that he
00:12:41
calls for memory which turns out to be a licensed therapist in Eugene Oregon now
00:12:47
the detective would later State how she thought that was really weird because he
00:12:54
had this number memorized and she believed it was part of like a ruse like the fact that he had gone this far to to
00:13:01
form some kind of plan in advance and she couldn't really put her finger on was this something that he kept in his
00:13:08
back pocket as a plan to get out of this particular situation or really was this
00:13:14
something he would do to get out of any situation right right the detective quickly realizes that the name Lawrence
00:13:20
William Vanner which is the name that the man had given had no paper trail he had no driver's license in the state of
00:13:27
California he had no driver license in any state in the US that they could find and he had no criminal history or
00:13:34
records of any kind nothing that they looked for in their databases at the sheriff's department turned up regarding
00:13:41
the name Lawrence William Vanner but this guy he still agrees to keep talking to her answering questions and he even
00:13:49
agrees to be fingerprinted so she also said that they made quite a bit of small talk and
00:13:56
mainly this is because the guys seem to be very chat she also commented that he had these
00:14:01
really strange super blue twinkly eyes but as far as questioning went he was a very personable guy eyes yeah like The
00:14:10
Whiz from Seinfeld yes much like the whiz yeah sometimes Vanner even spoke in a type of
00:14:17
like sing songy voice when they were talking um anyway so he gives his I never really understood that sing songy
00:14:24
thing does somebody talk like this or something like this in every musical that you watch they do that well right
00:14:32
right but that's an actual song but sing songy Talk really well Verner did this from time to time during the the
00:14:38
questioning process and he does give his fingerprints as we said and while the Live Scan began to run the prince
00:14:46
through the database the detectives took Vanner out to a corner store so that he
00:14:51
could get a drink and a pack of cigarettes the detective in an attempt to get some more information about this
00:14:58
man asked him if his accent was from the East Coast she says to him your accent's
00:15:03
very interesting where did you grow up Vanner then stopped talking and he leaned in real close to the detective's
00:15:10
personal space and with a completely different tone he said that's none of your goddamn business she said it was
00:15:17
like a flick of a switch from from the normal behavior that she had seen before he completely changed con artist yeah he
00:15:26
gets he gets very aggressive with her and then she says that he then switched it off again and he kept carrying on as
00:15:33
normal like nothing had happened and I'm going to post some pictures of this guy
00:15:36
of old Robert Evans he's he's definitely creepy looking he's like a creepy clown
00:15:43
yeah you know he's like a sadistic clown with twinkly blue eyes yeah he's just got the hair on the sides and none on
00:15:49
the top and it he's kind of got that clown face yeah there's this other picture too where he's wearing a Mickey
00:15:54
Mouse shirt and he just you know kind of ruined Mickey Mouse for me for the next
00:15:58
week or so and breakfast um the fingerprints come back and what they learned from the
00:16:06
fingerprints gets even stranger okay so this now shows that Larry Vanner was the
00:16:13
same person as a man named Curtis Mayo Kimble a man who was once convicted of abusing and abandoning a little girl at
00:16:21
an RV park in 1986 what had happened was he was on Parole for that conviction and he like
00:16:28
the they let him out instead of checking in and doing all the stuff you're supposed to do on parole to you know
00:16:34
reincorporate yourself back into society instead he just takes off so the detective then reads him his rights
00:16:42
because of course Larry Vanner he's he's this Kimble guy and he's needs to be taken into custody for
00:16:50
the parole violation and of course Larry vaner at this point stops talking to the
00:16:54
detective right lawyers up um I I don't they didn't cover that in this in this portion of the story I
00:17:03
don't think that he actually L lawyered up at this point right he just said I'm not talking because this is all kind of
00:17:08
happening very quickly there none of your goddamn business so now what he said to her they decide that his
00:17:14
premises are subject to a search so they go and they get the appropriate warrant
00:17:20
and they took a key to June's house from Larry vor's belongings and then they go
00:17:25
to the house and once there they find pictures of the missing woman still on the refrigerator but then they don't
00:17:33
find any women's clothing in the house and then they well at least there's pictures Well up of her in the house
00:17:41
it's going to get it's going to get a little weird because now they start to notice the weird stuff uh there are some
00:17:47
areas on the property that look to have been recently dug up there was a dried up dead kitten Over The Back Fence the
00:17:57
that's that is weird yeah if you're going to dig up some of the property at least put the cat the dead cat in one of
00:18:03
those holes right uh the garage was padlocked so they open the padlock to the garage and inside they find Pottery
00:18:13
ail and a potter's wheel these are all Junes items at the back of the garage they find a small door they open the
00:18:22
door now this is a very dark room so they're using flashlights at this point they can see a water heater and near the
00:18:30
water he heater is a pile of kitty litter it's mounded over some extension cords yeah there are Workshop lights
00:18:40
that are hung up in this cramped little space uh they're not on uh but they also
00:18:46
see a small axe and a reciprocating saw well this is where they're starting to feel feel very bad now now we've got to
00:18:57
call in the forensics unit right cuz cuz this whole place might be a crime scene
00:19:02
so the crime scene unit came in and they started off by taking photographs of the
00:19:07
entire place now it becomes time to move the mound of cat litter so they very carefully moved just a little bit of the
00:19:15
cat litter at first and this is when they discovered a human foot still in a rubber
00:19:21
flip-flop but okay but it's fully mummified by this point right but yes the the life lesson that we learned
00:19:30
right what was it you remember was the life lesson that we learned yesterday don't go looking in the barrel don't
00:19:37
open the barrel yeah but this is their job this is different I know but I'm saying it's it's what you can take away
00:19:44
from the show what you can learn as an individual this is not our job our job is to flex our golden pipes on these
00:19:53
microphones but so lesson number one yesterday do not open the the barrel mhm and lesson number two today is don't
00:20:02
move the cat litter don't touch the kitty litter well so of course murder charges
00:20:09
followed for the man that they knew as Vanner and K Kimble right so he is charged is well real quick question
00:20:17
though so we know that he is Kimble right like that's who he is know we know that Larry Vanner is Curtis Kimbell
00:20:25
right and Curtis and Curtis Campbell actually has some kind of record we have fingerprints on file yeah and that's why
00:20:31
I think they charge him as Curtis Kimbell and not as this Larry Vanner because there is some paper trail for
00:20:37
Curtis Kimble now can you explain to me how we get to Robert Evans yes but it's going to it's going to take a little
00:20:45
more okay A little more explanation and trust me this will all come back around full circle at the end I promise so he
00:20:52
ends up playing don't you lie to me boy he's charged as Curtis Kimbell but to everyone's surprise he ends up playing
00:21:00
guilty to the charge he pleed guilty to Second deegree murder and was sentenced to 15 years to life in prison it's not
00:21:08
enough man so what ends up what what ends up happening this turns out to be a good thing for Mr Kimble AKA Vanner
00:21:16
because this avoids the man a trial and more importantly to him an investigation
00:21:21
into the man calling himself Lawrence fanner right so the short of that is this Detective not only puts This Man
00:21:29
Behind Bars but she establishes through the fingerprint match that Lawrence Vanner is also Curtis Kimble and Curtis
00:21:37
Kimble was wanted on parole violation for abuse and abandonment of a minor a minor that the court system believed to
00:21:44
be his child now this awesome detective decides that you know what we should trace this guy as far back as we can
00:21:53
right because of course the thought being here is if he is guilty of this kind of stuff stuff and he has used more
00:22:00
than one name we might want to at least round the bases once to just to be safe to see what else we can dig up in the
00:22:07
process right cuz we know he's a murderer mhm and we know that the whole child pedophilia stuff and then normally
00:22:16
repeat offenders yeah and you know what my thought here is at the very least they might want to tried to reach out to
00:22:23
that child to see what name he was going by when he was connected was he was he Kimble wasner was he a
00:22:31
different name you know there's only so much that they even have on this Kimble guy you know they traced Vanner to
00:22:38
Kimble they only have one arrest for this Kimble dude so she tracks Vanner AKA Kimble and she figures out that he
00:22:47
had had uh a relationship with June uh that began in 2000 this was the the murdered wife uh before that this
00:22:57
Detective believes that he had lived and worked in Contra Casta California from about 1990 to the year
00:23:06
2000 so from 1990 before that there's quite a bit of a gray area because they don't really
00:23:15
have much information on him until the year of 1986 as far as this detective is concerned right so the other than him
00:23:23
being arrested in 1986 for the abandonment of a girl that he called Lisa this was at an RV park in Northern
00:23:32
California she couldn't find anything else on him and she says you know that just didn't make any sense to me that
00:23:38
this guy had this little girl in 1986 so what she does is she orders a DNA paternity test in 2003 this is
00:23:48
shortly after he pleads guilty to the murder charge this is to determine whether or not he is the biological
00:23:54
father of the girl called Lisa yeah the one that was abandoned at the RV park so
00:24:00
what happened is now they've determined you know is is he the biological father the DNS DNA tests come in and it turns
00:24:08
out that he in fact is not the father of the girl named Lisa right so now we have
00:24:14
this girl that he had abandoned and no one knew where this girl had come from so now we have to go back a little
00:24:23
bit further right we let's go back to the child abuse abandonment charge that he faced as Curtis Kimble right so so
00:24:30
now we we go back to this this man Curtis Kimble shows up in January of 1986 this man is living and working at
00:24:40
the Holiday host RV Park in Scott Valley uh this is in Northern California and he's living there working there and with
00:24:49
him is a girl believed to be about 5 years old and he is calling the girl Lisa um he
00:24:58
in June or July of 1986 he leaves Lisa with a family that lives in the RV park so the way that
00:25:08
these charges come about is that after she is living with the family for several months Lisa starts telling the
00:25:15
family about the man who had abandoned her um and she believes him to be her father but she's telling the family
00:25:25
about some of the things that took place and we don't have details of that and that's probably a good thing um but what
00:25:32
ends up happening is this family then notifies law enforcement to to tell them you know something Not only was this
00:25:40
girl abandoned but we believe she was abused before she was abandoned right and so that's how we get to these
00:25:47
charges against Curtis Kimbell now we have a very strange situation though here Captain this is something that
00:25:55
doesn't happen very often at all what the detective quickly realizes is this young girl that was called Lisa she
00:26:04
might have been 5 years old that just appeared in this RV park right well now she's an adult and she is basically a
00:26:13
living Jane Doe which which we you very seldom see that so now we have a situation where we have a person that's
00:26:21
lived most of their life and they really don't know who they are or where they're
00:26:25
from one it's creepy stuff and and and it kind of makes you wonder like when you meet somebody is are they who they
00:26:32
say they are right I mean um right cuz really until you see any kind of documentation you just take people at
00:26:39
their work it doesn't even matter if you see documentation yeah really I mean this guy I'm Scott White
00:26:47
uh well you're definitely vanilla yeah you know what though uh I'm speaking to a guy that uses
00:26:54
a uses an alias so maybe shouldn't be uh they kind of frown upon it if you're teaching children they frown upon you
00:27:03
talking about murders I get you on the internet so that that's why that happened okay so's let's make some sense
00:27:11
of this let's recap this real quickly so Robert Evans we we now know that he is responsible for the deaths and the the
00:27:20
four victims that were four unidentified victims in Allenstown New Hampshire yes
00:27:25
right and from there they trace him back to California mhm and the California Connection is the murder of his wife or
00:27:34
girlfriend that he lived with in 2002 using the name Larry yep he Larry Vanner and from there with the fingerprint
00:27:42
match they trace him back to that RV Park from that charge in 1986 of abandoning a minor with with
00:27:51
possible abuse and in in regards to that um you know he was sentenced I believe it was a threeyear sentence he served
00:27:58
one year and then he up and left uh the first day of his parole well of course he did and and what I think they should
00:28:06
do and I don't know if they've done this but have they tested uh this living Jane
00:28:11
Doe's DNA with any of the DNA from the barrels um I believe that they have but we're going to get there's a whole bunch
00:28:19
of DNA that that comes up out of this but we will have to get into that after this beer
00:28:26
break [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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Angie [Music] that all right cheers and we're back everybody happy women's day okay so the man that we and police in
00:30:31
New Hampshire are calling Robert Evans was living under other names in California old IHOP Evans he ple guilty
00:30:40
to the murder of his wife girlfriend that he lives with and in 2013 that is when the DNA test is
00:30:50
requested of or required of this Robert Evans person so in August of 2013 the DNA testing determines that Robert Evans
00:31:00
and Lisa the girl that he had abandoned at the RV park were not biologically related so now we have a situation where
00:31:11
we're trying to initiate an investigation into the true identity of this girl named Lisa she was living
00:31:19
under the name of Lisa Jensen um and that was a name that was given to her by this man so again we have a a strange
00:31:27
situation where we have a living Jane Doe well and he's good at coming up with names
00:31:33
so and I mean he he doesn't come up with good names no but he's just good at coming up with names well Bob Evans I
00:31:40
mean he could have seen a sign old high hop yeah such a douche Burger so in 2014
00:31:49
San Bernardino the coso Enlisted the assistance of DNA adoption.com this is one of those like genealogy type
00:31:59
things you try to find your where you came from your family background well that's that's actually interesting cuz
00:32:05
one of the listeners posted yesterday if if they did a genealogy on the victims of the barrels which which is something
00:32:13
that police are working on doing right now oh that's good uh so we we'll get back to that it was a good listener
00:32:20
thought is what I was saying exactly some of these listeners should be involved in these cases um so they are
00:32:27
with the assistance of DNA adoption.com they use one of their search Angels is what I guess they call them a a genetic
00:32:36
genealogist to identify links to possible relatives of this Lisa girl mhm and what they find this takes quite a
00:32:44
bit of time but in 2016 they discover a first cousin and the grandfather of Lisa right now these
00:32:54
two people are identified and they are living in New Hampshire which led to proving that Lisa had ties to New
00:33:04
Hampshire right which would mean that Robert would have ties to New Hampshire as well exactly so what they discover
00:33:11
after talking with these people meeting with these people is that Lisa in fact is a girl that was known by the name of
00:33:20
Don Bowden mhm um and she happens to be the daughter of a missing person and this person's name is Denise Bowden now
00:33:29
the last known sighting of Denise Bowden would have been in November of 1981 so the police suspect that Denise
00:33:39
Bowden she went missing shortly after Thanksgiving of 1981 and at the time she had a six-month-old daughter this being
00:33:47
Don Bowden and she had a boyfriend that was going by the name of Robert Evans or
00:33:52
Bob Evans and they lived in Manchester New Hampshire what had happened was she had either spoken to or visited her
00:34:02
family for Thanksgiving and they they're not quite sure when the when these three people
00:34:09
kind of disappeared from the area but they believe that it would have been it had to have been after Thanksgiving but
00:34:16
it was definitely before Christmas so sometime in that early December time period they believe that these three
00:34:21
have disappeared and the thing that kind of blows my mind about all this is we have a missing person person that went
00:34:27
missing in ' 881 mhm and it's not until 2016 that she's reported missing correct
00:34:34
and that's what I was saying before I mean the whole idea with you know that some that people live that kind of life
00:34:41
or or people that have those kind of friends or family around them uh that would not report them missing it's it's
00:34:48
a very sad thing um you know well we don't know the Dynamics of their family um it may not have been any wrongdoing
00:34:57
on their part it see it's definitely strange 100% I mean you're talking about many years go by before she's reported
00:35:05
as missing right and then we have that information about the other serial killer Robinson and how he would you
00:35:11
know basically kidnap somebody or take somebody hostage and then he would write to the parents saying oh it's okay you
00:35:19
know I'm moving on with my life and and you were just talking earlier about how you also believe that uh Robinson would
00:35:27
have these victims sign pieces of paper yeah and so by having you know a signature maybe type up the letter but
00:35:35
with that signature you know the family just kind of believes it and I guess I think the problem here though is
00:35:43
you know if I was a father and I'm getting some letter from either a guy or I'm getting a letter that's quote
00:35:51
unquote from my daughter typed but with her signature right but then they're trying to tell me that she doesn't want
00:35:58
to be a part of my life well again hopefully I'm not you know hopefully I'm a decent father mhm and and and if I was
00:36:06
a decent father and somebody wanted to just be rid of me for no reason you know I'm going to fight that mhm so but but
00:36:17
again you again like you said we don't know their social dynamics so who knows the the thought here is what what the
00:36:23
family would tell us in 2016 was that the reason they didn't report either the mother or the daughter
00:36:31
as being missing was that it was presented to them now it's unclear to us the general public if it was Robert
00:36:40
Evans presenting this to them or if it was their own daughter presenting this to them Denise Bowden but it was
00:36:47
presented to them that they basically owed a whole bunch of money to everybody in the area of Manchester New Hampshire
00:36:54
where they lived M so the thought was was they were going to uproot move elsewhere transplant and and set up shop
00:37:02
elsewhere and create a new life somewhere debt-free right um the family probably thought they were doing their
00:37:09
daughters some favors by not leading the possible debt collectors to her um that
00:37:16
being the thought again though 30 years go by it's strange yeah again it I mean you know maybe you don't hear from the
00:37:22
first Christmas and you know nothing you know no big deal you know she's she's starting her new
00:37:29
life but by the second Christmas I'm looking for this person you know I mean how can you just let your daughter just
00:37:36
disappear almost yeah and and I said you know we don't know if it was Robert Evans that presented that the story to
00:37:43
them or if it was their own daughter my guess is it might have been the daughter
00:37:47
presenting it because the vibe I got from the attorney general and from the officers that were explaining this whole
00:37:54
situation to the public the vibe I got was that the family was not a fan of this Robert Evans like that he was
00:38:01
somebody that they they didn't like from the G which is more of a reason to go find him punch him in his stupid [ __ ]
00:38:07
face and then his clown face his clown face and then pee in his little twinkly eyes I'll make I'll make his little eyes
00:38:15
twinkle wow wow just his face it just got real no because here's why I'm getting pissed off about it because what
00:38:22
we're seeing is the cycle and it and it and it involves pedophilia that's what it involves
00:38:29
that's what it comes down to why why was this girl missing for 30 years because she had a daughter he prayed on her and
00:38:38
and it was the daughter he wanted the daughter and you see this time and time again where these uh douche bers come
00:38:46
out and they pray on single mothers with daughters or sons and they molest those
00:38:53
kids and then once the mother finds out about about it well now you got to kill the mother and that's what this Robert
00:39:00
Evans was doing time and time again mhm was getting into situations and I guarantee you his girlfriendwife that's
00:39:08
probably why she ended up dead and why they found her at her house dead because she probably figured out that he was
00:39:16
doing this [ __ ] or or figured out that he had some very sketchy past um you know anything's possible regarding that
00:39:25
uh we should State very clearly here that Denise Bowden is still technically a missing person she's not been
00:39:32
identified as having been found anywhere or um she's dead or to be living anywhere and you're exactly right the
00:39:39
way that this has been presented by the Attorney General is that they expect that knowing Robert Evans past and
00:39:48
knowing what he's capable of they firmly and the amount of time that's gone by frankly they firmly believe that that
00:39:56
their looking for remains as far as Denise Bowden would go all right so let's connect this all together yeah so
00:40:03
in the summer of 2016 the San berino uh County Sheriff's Office they contact the
00:40:10
Manchester Police Department regarding the identification of Don Bowden So Lisa Jensen the girl that was left at the RV
00:40:18
park is actually Don Bowden the daughter of Denise Bowden and I'm so glad that they did their work so she has Le has
00:40:26
some closure and that she has some sense of an actual past before this monster yeah can you imagine that though this
00:40:35
this this Lisa girl she's living with the name Lisa for all these years and she was adopted out and went on to live
00:40:42
a very normal happy life from what we have heard um can you imagine that situation though that that you you you
00:40:50
really basically have no family background or understanding of your family background or where you came from
00:40:57
you don't you don't know your mom you you well sometimes I wish I didn't know my family background you have this guy
00:41:04
that you think is your father that that probably abused you at the very least he
00:41:08
abandoned you and so you probably consider yourself lucky to have survived and got out of that situation and then
00:41:17
all these years later you're contacted you're living your normal life you know and you're doing your normal things and
00:41:23
then you get contacted and you're told you know that that guy that left you at the RV park we figured out that that was
00:41:30
not his real name and he's not your father so sorry I got sidetracked there but back to the summer of 2016 this is
00:41:39
when California contacts the New Hampshire Manchester Police Department regarding the identification of Don
00:41:46
Bowden the girl in connection with a missing female Denise Bowden the mother and they let them know that uh the
00:41:55
person that they ECT of being involved in this disappearance would be a person that they've already convicted of
00:42:02
homicide in 2002 right so that same year a multi- agency investigation begins to
00:42:09
determine that Bob Evans Robert Evans his they determine his connections to Manchester New Hampshire and Allenstown
00:42:18
New Hampshire what's the major connection between old Robert IHOP Evans and the the four in the barrel so in
00:42:26
October of 2016 they take Robert Evans DNA profile remember they already have this from
00:42:33
from checking with the Lisa girl and they compare that profile to all of the three female these are the minor female
00:42:43
victims that were found in Allenstown right well the results showed that Robert Evans was the father of the
00:42:52
middle child remember this is the child that is non-maternal related to the other victims mhm so what are the
00:43:00
Allenstown connections beyond that of the DNA this is what the officers are able to determine that at some point in
00:43:09
the late 1970s a man that shows up using the name Robert T Evans or to friends or
00:43:18
co-workers he's known as Bob Evans that he lived and worked in Manchester New Hampshire uh he worked at the wck Mill
00:43:26
in Manchester as a mechanic and electrician mhm um he when he was working there he worked with the owner
00:43:35
of the property in Allenstown where the barrels with the bodies in them were found in 1985 right because there was
00:43:41
that little store yeah and in 2000 um he provided electrical work to the Bear Brook store that was located on
00:43:50
that property uh and he here's the thing though too that makes you want Wonder Captain once you kind of see this
00:43:58
situation with Robert Evans and you know that that a lot of these crimes might be
00:44:02
driven by his pedophilia right and then we hear about the owner his last name was Callahan that owned that property
00:44:10
worked with him at the wck Mills doesn't it make you wonder does this Callahan character with his
00:44:17
background and pedophilia do you wonder if there's if there's some kind of connection there it seems a little too
00:44:25
big of a coinci to me right mhm a couple questions initially that come up one was
00:44:31
it the pedophilia that brought them together and then they decided to you know work together or was it through
00:44:39
work and odd conversation I don't know how that conversation starts but uh I don't want to ever have that happen cuz
00:44:47
I I I think I just slap the person but then a weird thought kind of popped into my head what if a lot of this pedophilia
00:44:54
stuff what if this other guy wasn't actually that involved mhm you know I mean and it was just H happen St or
00:45:03
something it's it's it's possible I the thing here is you you you imagine if this Callahan guy is guilty of lesser
00:45:10
crimes I don't think he's letting somebody dump bodies on his property right um actually guilty or not guilty
00:45:17
of anything you're not letting people dump bodies on your property um well and this starts making me feel a little more
00:45:24
like the whole idea of um sex trafficking human trafficking mhm yeah it it appears to be something of that
00:45:33
nature we we have these unidentified people that that one could think part partly they they're unidentified because
00:45:40
they were brought into that area another connection here is that the first Barrel
00:45:45
that was found uh with the adult and the oldest child that were dismembered in this Barrel remember they were found in
00:45:53
trash bags but these were multiple trash bags so what what Robert Evans did or whomever placed them there did was to
00:46:03
package these things together the trash bags were tied together with electrical wire now we already said that he has a
00:46:09
background as an electrician right so that makes sense this electrical wire could be could potentially be traced
00:46:17
back to a place called Carol cable now this is interesting because that is where Denise Bowden worked
00:46:26
so I do want to throw this out there though it is a bit of a loose connection because it's been presented to me that
00:46:35
that type of cable that type of wire was actually a very common type of wire but
00:46:40
again here that it would be another big coincidence right well but the fact of the matter with the old Denise case is
00:46:47
he had her daughter he took her daughter across the country we've know we we see
00:46:54
this pattern with him you know know as far as murders go and you know so we don't we don't have to sit there and say
00:47:01
well he he had some cable because he probably worked at this cable company that's where she worked that's another
00:47:08
nail in the head I don't need any more Nails in the head you know this guy right I think it's more of a connection
00:47:14
to the four unidentified bodies um in regards to Denise Bowden there were people that provided law enforcement
00:47:22
with pictures of this Robert Evans with Denise Bowden so it's not just somebody coming forward and saying well I know
00:47:29
this Robert Evans guy was with Denise Bowden no they have photographical proof um some other kind of loose ends here we
00:47:37
have with the Allenstown victims remember the the the girlfriend wife that he killed in California um all five
00:47:45
of these victims died from blunt force trauma um and the the uh several almost all these victims as well were
00:47:54
dismembered so we we see a bit of a pattern as far as uh cleaning up a a scene and getting rid of bodies and
00:48:02
through investigation they were able to uncover that Robert Evans was known to actually dump stuff on the site before
00:48:10
yeah and they had confirmed that barrels from the mill from the womach mill were
00:48:15
dumped on the property as well now what they're saying in regards to the actual two barrels where the bodies were found
00:48:22
stuffed into is that these they're not they can't place them as having come from the Womack Mill but it but it makes
00:48:30
sense I mean but they're similar they're very similar yes and then sometimes you
00:48:33
know if you work in any warehouse you know sometimes you have like everything normally comes in this crate or in this
00:48:42
Barrel right but then every now and then you just get a couple crates or a couple
00:48:47
barrels that look a little different get a oneoff right and those might have been
00:48:50
put to the side and he possibly could have used those CU they weren't using them at at his work mhm that now
00:48:57
remember we had said that they were able to establish that at some point in the late 1970s that Robert T Evans had moved
00:49:05
into the Manchester New Hampshire area uh they have him living there until approximately 1981 when he leaves with
00:49:13
Denise Bowden and her daughter um they are able to confirm they don't know the exact time or date that he would have
00:49:21
moved into this property but they have him as living at a at 925 Hayward street in Manchester New Hampshire now what has
00:49:30
taken place since all of this uncovering has happened is that they have gone back
00:49:36
to that property and mainly they went back there to look for the remains of Denise Bowden right um they they spent
00:49:45
almost I think they spent three or four days there uh with FBI and other agencies involved and they were unable
00:49:52
to find any trace of remains human remains Denise B the problem is it's 30 some years later mhm so of course police
00:50:01
are still looking for Denise Bowden uh she's been missing since November of 1981 she was 23 years old at the time
00:50:10
that she had disappeared or was last seen she had brown hair brown eyes she was about 5' 4 to 5' 6 in tall 120 to
00:50:19
140 lb she had a noticeable overbite um and as we had said she was known to have
00:50:25
been living in the Manchester New Hampshire area um the problem though is when you have a guy like Robert T Evans
00:50:35
who moves all over the country with all these different names you don't know where you could potentially find this
00:50:42
person she might even be a Jane Doe in some other state that that's been sitting there waiting to be named all
00:50:49
these years did they do a DNA test between the girl that he left abandoned and the girls that were in the barrel
00:50:56
to see if there was some kind of connection there there I believe they have and I believe that there's not um
00:51:03
any type of connection to to them as far as being relatives so I would I would just be it would be suspect to me that
00:51:11
that that the middle child that they believe is connected to Bob Evans or Robert Evans would be maybe related to
00:51:19
the Bowens yeah anything's a possibility at this point so what do we let's try to
00:51:26
point out what we think we know about Robert Evans uh because we have these little patches in time where we don't
00:51:33
have information on where he is and this becomes a big problem because we we're starting to see what this guy is
00:51:41
probably capable of I mean he's a chameleon right he he's a guy that moves into an area well no I mean here's what
00:51:47
we do know is we do know that he's capable of kidnapping we know he's capable of abandoning children we know
00:51:54
that he's capable he he has you know worked and probably was in cahoots with a pedophile with a known pedophile and
00:52:02
he's capable of murder so we know he's capable of a lot and it's very it's not it's very likely that he's a serial
00:52:09
killer that's been moving around this country for decades so the police estimate that Robert Evans was born
00:52:17
between the years of 1936 in 1952 well that's quite a span of time there that's 16 years of of not being able that's
00:52:28
scary when when you have this guy that you're saying he's our number one suspect he's probably guilty of this but
00:52:35
we don't even know if this is his real name and we can't tell you how old he is either MH so the reason the way that
00:52:42
they come up with these years as having been possible birth dates that he was born sometime during this time is that
00:52:49
on you know certain paperwork that he had filled out over the years he used different dates that fell within this
00:52:56
this range um he did die in prison um in December of 2010 so he will be unable to face
00:53:05
Justice regarding these victims that that we have in Allenstown he's also going to be unable to provide us with
00:53:11
any information as to who he is or potential additional victims that he may have well I can get I can tell you who
00:53:17
he is well uh he changed his name obviously frequently um he had some there's a lot of suspected aliases but
00:53:28
we can go through the confirmed aliases he he had lived or worked under these names at one time or another uh this
00:53:35
being Robert T Evans also Curtis Mayo Kimble General Gerald mockerman uh Gordon Curtis Jensen and Lawrence
00:53:45
William Vanner which was the name that he was using when he murdered his his girlfriend that he was living with yeah
00:53:52
occupations uh he had worked at different times as a electrician or a ma mechanic um they have a suspicion that
00:54:00
he might have possibly worked at the Manchester New Hampshire VA um and here's here's one thing that
00:54:07
they're really looking into right now regarding him is that they think they suspect he might have some form of
00:54:14
military background and they even kind of specify that they believe it might be the Navy mhm and this just being because
00:54:22
of the way that he would write dates the way that carried himself the way that he
00:54:26
talked to people uh at different jobs that he had had um and they they even say that he was known to kind of rig
00:54:34
things rather than fix them that he would rig them in a manner that was would be something that they would be
00:54:41
used to seeing in a military fashion right so he would kind of Jerry rig a bunch of stuff and uh but he was also a
00:54:48
known alcoholic as as well yeah they believe that he was probably an alcoholic for most of his life kind like
00:54:54
when he got cigar cigarettes and and and booze and said it's n your goddamn business yeah it's not your goddamn
00:55:02
business if I'm alcoholic well and he was obviously you know as far as characteristics go he was obviously a
00:55:08
transient um and they can confirm that he throughout his life lived in different campgrounds trailer parks and
00:55:14
motel you know not really lying roots in too many places or too many places for a
00:55:20
very long period of time um confirm locations now this is important because they're trying to figure out one where
00:55:27
this guy was from you know he pops up on the map in the late 70s they have nothing of of him before that but his
00:55:34
confirmed locations would be obviously New Hampshire and in California but they also have tied him to the state of Idaho
00:55:42
and this is because he was arrested in the mid 80s in California with a stolen vehicle from the state of Idaho now what
00:55:51
what they're really looking for and hoping for is that somebody comes forward and and says you know what I
00:55:56
know you know I knew the guy that stole my vehicle or or he lived down the street and he went by this name right um
00:56:03
so those are the confirmed locations they have some possible locations where they think that he may have lived well
00:56:10
cuz he could he could have possibly been in jail for other murders MH yeah and so
00:56:18
the possible locations of where he he may have lived at some point would be the state of Washington Oregon and
00:56:24
Arizona Wyoming Colorado Missouri Virginia Georgia Louisiana Hawaii uh small part of Canada and Quebec Canada
00:56:35
well possibly Hawaii I mean that would make sense if he was in the Navy yeah he could have been stationed there for for
00:56:40
whatever reason and also the the state of Texas um now I do want to throw this out
00:56:48
there this guy is obviously not to be believed on anything you know what I mean that we we you know you know people
00:56:56
that that tell stories and you say well take what they say with a grain of salt I I don't even think you can use a grain
00:57:01
of salt when you're talking about Robert Evans here the these are locations that
00:57:05
they question because he has some ties or he has said mentioned these places to people at some point in his life now any
00:57:15
of those background stories that he was giving to these people could be completely fabricated right complete
00:57:20
Malarkey yeah they seem to be really focusing on the state of tech as far as law enforcement goes they're
00:57:27
they're really interested in the state of Texas um and yeah and I think what's going to come down to is they're going
00:57:32
to they're doing a lot of hard work and I and I I'm grateful for them to do that
00:57:37
because there are other missing person cases there's there's probably other John or John do probably Jane do in this
00:57:46
scenario but there's missing person cases there's Jane Do's out there that are connected to this guy Y and they
00:57:53
just need to keep doing the work work to do that and maybe bring closure to somebody mhm and well then that leads us
00:58:00
perfectly into this because then you start to wonder Bob Evans Robert Evans uh his victims and potential victims who
00:58:07
would be his potential victims well obviously the Allenstown 4 which seems like he's very very likely the guilty
00:58:14
person in that situation um we also have The Disappearance of Denise Bowden who's
00:58:20
still not been found who went missing in 1981 right um of course his his ex-wife
00:58:26
ex-girlfriend that that he killed in in California um but we also have the mother of the middle child in Allenstown
00:58:37
right we have this this whole other woman that's not we don't have a name for her we don't we don't know anything
00:58:44
about this person right this is a whole potential victim that that we don't know
00:58:47
anything about now there is some suspicions regarding some possibilities of who could be that middle child's
00:58:55
mother um and this being a woman that they are trying to figure out if she even existed or not um and her name
00:59:04
would be Elizabeth Evans so in January of of 1980 a certified letter addressed to Robert Evans was signed for by a
00:59:13
person by the name of Elizabeth Evans um and at two points in in that same year he was arrested um and on both of those
00:59:22
times at both of those times he listed his spouse's name as Elizabeth now the strange thing here though is on a later
00:59:29
arrest date in October of 1980 he's arrested again and this time he does not list a spouse so right again they're
00:59:38
unable to confirm if this person even exist or not or or could it be somebody living under an alias that's traveling
00:59:45
along with him right but it right but but but by force you see what I'm saying I think it's more likely if if he was
00:59:55
traveling with somebody again he's either conning them or it's by force and he's holding people and that's goes back
01:00:03
to the whole sex trafficking and if this Elizabeth Evans person is not the mother
01:00:08
of the middle child then you increase your potential victim list by by another person um it's it's it's a crazy case um
01:00:17
one of the Stranges that that I've seen um I got to say here though Captain what
01:00:24
really what really kind of drives this whole thing and what I'm really excited about and and is to see somebody in law
01:00:31
enforcement take it the extra steps that detective that put him away for murder in California back in
01:00:39
2002 I love that she gets a gut feeling that something just doesn't sit right with her and she decides you know what
01:00:45
we're going to mandate this dude take a DNA test yeah because this guy's passed away since then if this went unnoticed
01:00:52
back then we would be sitting here with no I know we have a whole bunch of extra
01:00:56
questions involved but we'd be sitting here with no answers at all she not only did her darnest to put him behind bars
01:01:02
you we don't have a lot of cases where we we have talked about you know women and law enforcement so it's kind of
01:01:08
serendipitous since then she has been promoted to Captain and and she is nearing retirement she's a captain yeah
01:01:15
she's a captain just like you of a but she's a captain of a much bigger prestigious garage than this one I'm
01:01:21
sure captain my captain that's right I salute her she's coming up on retirement and she said that she is hoping to
01:01:29
nothing wrong with older lady all right uh you can you can you can send her some
01:01:34
fan mail on your own time how about some flowers or some socks or so yeah hey but
01:01:41
she she's coming up on retirement she does say that she plans to assist uh the New Hampshire State Police uh even well
01:01:49
into retirement as far as Robert Evans is concerned well here's what I like about it it's normally when law
01:01:55
enforcement gets the man right they get who they think is responsible for a murder or for a crime it normally
01:02:04
stops right man we don't need to go any further and yeah I understand that we're
01:02:09
going to keep diving into this Robert Evans guy because we want to know if he had any other victims and can we bring
01:02:16
closure to anybody else but we still have these four identifi unidentified people in these
01:02:23
barrels and we're going to continue to do some work to try to figure out who they are mhm because cuz they deserve
01:02:31
answers you know what I mean they deserve an end of their story and they believe that with presenting to the
01:02:38
public who this killer is who killed those people did they think that now they might be able to put an identity to
01:02:45
these people by tracing it through that of Robert Evans or any of these other aliases that he had given throughout the
01:02:51
years and what was so great is you know I posted uh you know the DNA where they reconstruct
01:02:58
what they think they would look like I I posted that picture on our Instagram and
01:03:02
and Twitter and everything and a lot of people retweeted it and you know I mean that's nice cuz it you know promotes the
01:03:08
show but it's also just to get this picture out there how many of hundreds I mean here here's the thing that drives
01:03:15
me insane is that somebody like you know Kim Kardashian or somebody will post something on the Internet and it's
01:03:21
millions and millions and for what you nobody you know put your fat ass away you know and go ruin another guy's
01:03:30
career Kanye hasn't put out [ __ ] since he's been with you nothing good anyways
01:03:36
but if people of that power if they put out this picture and millions of people saw that maybe we get some closure in
01:03:43
some of this stuff yeah and I'm hoping that this thing catches fire because you know the weird thing in researching this
01:03:50
case first of all it wasn't it wasn't a case that I Knew Too Much about um and when I started diving into it I
01:03:57
started seeing um you know Witnesses people coming forward in in the state of New Hampshire that that are saying I
01:04:05
shouldn't say Witnesses these are people being interviewed uh for for news stating that you know what I I didn't I
01:04:12
hadn't heard of this case until five six years ago which is which is crazy I mean
01:04:15
it's four bodies in a barrel but again it it never went anywhere um so well the longevity of this you know starting way
01:04:22
back in the 80s and then you know almost 15 years later then another barrel and then almost another 15 years later DNA
01:04:30
evidence and now we have a guy we still but again we still have four victims that remain uh nameless and there
01:04:40
they're working very hard they got a lot of leads that they're working on one of
01:04:43
those being something you mentioned earlier where they are going to use that same those same ways that they found out
01:04:49
who Lisa Bowden was they're using those same methods to try to trace genealogy with the with the three un three and
01:04:58
four unknown victims uh in uh Allenstown well hopefully we get some answers the thing here is though I I you touched
01:05:07
upon something too that that I want to just take a quick second to mention you know they're they're really curious
01:05:12
about the state of Texas for some reason and they won't fully disclose why um my
01:05:18
suspicion you said something maybe he had served time in prison at one point uh and maybe that why he just kind of
01:05:25
pops up on the map all of a sudden in 1977 and you would think yes you could connect him via the fingerprints to an
01:05:32
inmate but maybe they've not tested it against the right sample the thing here is I wonder One is also so old you know
01:05:39
yeah and remember when we when we covered the yogurt shop murders we talked about how the state of Texas was
01:05:45
releasing prisons due to overcrowding in the 70s this guy just pops up all of a sudden in the 70s they're focusing on
01:05:51
the state of Texas I'm curious if he might have served some time in the state of
01:05:56
Texas May maybe the other thing though is he's he's a runaway that joined the military or the Navy and he doesn't pop
01:06:03
up until he he gets out of the Navy it's a fascinating case I really do think that we're going to see a lot of
01:06:09
information come out regarding Robert T Evans and hopefully these unidentified victims within this next year again yeah
01:06:17
hopefully we get some answers and again thanks for sharing uh all the stuff on social media and do we have a
01:06:23
recommended reading for this week we do we have a recommended reading and a recommended viewing first up the reading
01:06:30
of course the book we discussed yesterday expecting to die by Lisa Jackson uh that's a fictional Thriller
01:06:36
you can pick that up we have that listed on our recommended page on our website and you can pick that up through the
01:06:41
Amazon Banner there and for a recommended viewing I'm I'm pretty pumped up about this Captain it's called
01:06:47
capture kill release it's about a young married couple that documents their descent down the rabbit hole as they see
01:06:54
seek to fulfill one of their darkest desires uh this is Loosely based off of the real life Ken and Barbie murders
01:07:01
which of course is one of the most famous cases from our brothers and sisters up north in Canada uh so check
01:07:08
out capture kill release that just came out this week and that's available on Amazon as well again big happy happy
01:07:15
happy happy happy women's day so proud of you crazy freaks that listen to murder
01:07:25
shows anyways thanks for listening thanks for the support and we'll see you next week and until then be good be kind
01:07:31
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