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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] Hello. >> Hello. Lah. Oh, yeah. I love the internet. Uh last
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night I was looking for Mine Hunter clips. I was like, "Oh, I'll just take, you know, a little clip from the show and
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post it on like social media." >> Mhm. >> And uh they have this clip. It's I think all it says is Ed Keer
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eats a egg salad sandwich. I I saw that same clip. I didn't didn't watch the clip, but when I was looking
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things up, that popped up as well. >> It's two minutes. >> Does he talk at all or is he just eating
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the sandwich? two. It's like two minutes 13 seconds of him eating, you know, and
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it's like cut diagonally, which is the best way to like if you're going to make like a peanut butter jelly
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sandwich, you cut it diagonal or or grilled cheese or whatever. So, it's a sandwich cut diagonally. He just eats
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one half >> and then he eats the other half and then he just kind of looks in at the camera.
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And I'm guessing like I'm I'm guessing it wasn't even for the show. Maybe it was like an actual lunch break that they
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filmed and they just thought this is so weird. So, let's just post it. >> Right.
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>> Well, if you'd like to see that, you could go to our website or you could go to our Instagram because I posted a
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minute of it just because it's so strange. I can't find the actor's name that played
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Wayne Williams. I've been looking for that because I wanted to give him a a kudos for I
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thought he played the role very well and I thought he did an amazing job. >> Yeah, they made him look a lot like him,
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too. What's really weird is years ago when reading about the Atlanta child killings and reading about that case,
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like you have a well, I did anyway. I had like an image and a and a mannerisms kind of thing in my head about Wayne
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Williams. and he he he like did the role the same way that I kind of thought uh pictured it in my
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mind years ago. And having seen Williams on TV as well, because he's done some interviews over the years, I imagine
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that's what these guys are studying, these these on camera interviews that these guys have done. And he he I mean
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he does he looks the part like you said, but he also carries the part real well and he's super
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where Wayne Williams you could debate if he's an interesting guy but I feel like he made the character
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interesting at least to me anyway. And so and same with um Albert Jones. So, I found he that's the
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actor's name who played Jim Barney, the the he's like the FBI uh he's probably stationed at the FBI
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Atlanta office and he's helping the guys when they fly in to work on the case, >> right? Yeah. I thought he did a great
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job as well. He did a fantastic job and I'm hoping that they can like keep that character reoccurring in the
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seasons going forward, you know, like if if they were to go back to Atlanta for any reason or be in that area.
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Um cuz he was actually, of course, Jim Barney is a madeup name, but um the person that he's supposed to
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be from real life, his name escapes me, but um uh he was an interesting agent that that Douglas talked about quite a
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bit in in the book Mind Hunter. And the thing that shocked me was the whole forces of evil
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killer that they they interviewed him in the prison and it was really short. Like
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it wasn't even a big to-do. It was like maybe 10 minutes or whatever. And I thought that they would they would
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make that into more of a story, maybe even to into a couple of episodes because in in the book, I can't remember
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if they actually investigated the forces of evil or if it just was um because sometimes what he'll do is
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he'll bring you up to speed on a case, but then but really he's just talking about them going to interview somebody.
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But as the reader, it helps you so much more if you know the case if he can give
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you a general um rundown of the of the case before he gets into the interview portion and why they asked certain
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questions or or what they wanted to find out from that particular individual. >> Uh it looks like Christopher Livingston
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>> has played Wayne Williams >> joined the cast as Wayne Williams. >> Oh, cool. Yeah, I'm on
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IMDb and there's a huge list of it's like everybody that's been in season one and
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two and the list is just I mean it's a lot of people. >> Yeah. I uh I almost actually
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got Mine Hunter the audio book this week and I was going to listen to it. Um >> it's good. It won't take you very long
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to uh it's one of those ones that once you get into it, it's hard to put it down and you'll you'll tear right
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through it. Well, and they were kind of talking uh one of the sample clips was him talking about and and you kind of
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see this in season one where uh he's, you know, he being Holden is really into the interviews and thinks
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that they can learn a lot from him. And then in season two, he's going, "Okay, well, we learned enough from them." you
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know, yeah, I'm sure there's more that we can learn, but we've learned enough and let's, you know, take this and put
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this into practice. >> Uh, and almost that that he's bored with the interviews and one of the clips was
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saying how he's like basic I mean, he named all the clips or all the cases that he was working at the time and it
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was something ridiculous, you know, like 50 60ome cases. Then then he was saying that he was
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doing basically no interviews, but everybody back at uh BSI was was heavily involved in interviews and and paperwork
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and the psychology of everything. So that seems like that's kind of where we're at now in the story as far as
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Netflix goes. And it will obviously continue to go that way in season 3. Well, I did see a
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>> Well, I was going to say I did see a report that uh what's the director's name? Finch.
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>> Fincher. >> Fincher. Yeah. Fincher said that if if everything goes to his plan, there's f
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there's five seasons. >> So, yeah. >> Yeah. So, the um real quick here, something that I kind
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of forgot about, which I think is like one of the biggest parts of the of season two,
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was when when Ed Keer, you know, so Holden Ford is supposed to be like the, you know,
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he's not only is he a know-it-all, but but they really hone that in on season too where he's kind of like, you know, I
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I think I know everything about everything. And you know, I I'm I'm right is is kind of his his character.
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And the thing that's interesting is it takes Ed Keer to point out to him, well, you know, you've only been
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interviewing serial killers who got caught. You know, you've b you're making these profiles off of serial killers
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that you know about and off of your interviews with serial killer killers, but they're only one. These are the only
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ones that have got caught. If if if one comes along that's really good, that's smarter than you, Holden,
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>> you won't catch them. And that's that's so interesting that they do that because
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that in in turn when you kind of spin it back to BTK and how long his his um you know as long
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as long as he evaded law enforcement and he's kind of the opposite of what Holden Ford would profile as a typical
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serial killer. you know, he's he's out living a regular life. He has a family that it and he he's a
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>> Well, yeah. And they mentioned that a lot in season two where it's like, well,
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you know, these guys don't have time for families or they they can't stay normal
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enough to be married, >> right? >> Um and we see that time and time again not to be true.
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>> Yeah. And I think the the thing that you know you were talking about with the
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interviews um I I think I think we're going to get back to more interviews in season three but I think
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it was holding forward having the frustration of like look we're interviewing current the last couple
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people we've interviewed have all been batshit crazy. We there's nothing we can learn from them. you know, they're they
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don't make any sense in their interviews and they just kind of spew wild statements and weird things. Um, you
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know, with like Manson and Forces of Evil and there was there was another guy in that kind of string of interviews
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that you see holding forward like he's like we're wasting our time. There's nothing to learn from from from these
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types. You know, there's there's stuff to learn from Ed Keer who can articulate what he was thinking and experiencing
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and what he was doing where that's not going to be the case with all of them. >> Why do you think he was so fascinated
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with Manson? Do you think it was just like the pop icon status of Manson? Yeah, I think there's a little fanboy in
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um in Douglas with some of the serial killers. And I that's a weird term to use, but um I think well I I think they
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showed that in season one when he was going to >> interview uh Richard Speck and he was
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like, "Oh my god, we're going to you know, and and remember we have Bill Tench who's like, "What are you going to
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ask him to sign your book?" you know, like he like he had a he had like a book about the case with him that he was
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reading and um so I think they wanted to point that out that in some ways he is one he's fascinated by the serial
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killer. So he's going to have he's going to have killers that he wants to interview more so than others. You know
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what I mean? like and and I think >> Manson Manson for him was probably just not
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only the the the pop icon, you know, he's in he's in all the papers, he was the biggest story of the 60s and and
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then but on top of that, he's a different animal than some of these others where you're like, okay, he he
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didn't actually use his hands to kill anybody. he directed this group of of uh wild young people to to carry out the
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killings and he had this whole helter skelter race war that he wanted to start. So I mean significantly different
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from Ed Keer who was you know driving around picking up co-eds and and essentially killing his mother over and
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over and over and over and over again. >> Right. But and you also have to wonder
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did did they fully believe the the Manson story in itself that he wasn't involved and and maybe here's a chance
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that we can interview him and to know what happened and and maybe maybe he'll confess to actually being more involved
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than he was. >> He didn't he didn't interview the Manson family. They didn't show them
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interviewing Manson family in the season two, did they? Uh, they showed them. >> Did they interview Tex?
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>> Yes. >> Tex Watson. Okay. Um, >> and did they interview the girls? >> Uh, I don't think they actually showed
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if they did. >> Okay. Cuz see, I'd like to see that. I'd like to see them interview the girls in
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season three. That's where I'm racking my brain. I'm like, well, who are they going to interview? And I think
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based off of just reading the book that they're going to have to now they're kind of getting on the time
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the time line where they're they're going to have to stray from the book big time because the
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book is about over. You know what I mean? Like um there you know. So, where they leave us is we're we're what um
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1981, you know, the Wayne Williams is arrested and um BTK isn't apprehended until 2005.
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So, >> yeah, >> if there unless there's going to be like a big time jump here, they're going to go through
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25 years in the next three seasons. [Music] Uh well I mean they didn't they have a lot
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of involvement in like the uni bomber case Ted Kazinski >> I believe so. Yeah. >> And so that would be what 96.
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>> Yeah. >> So >> with with a long investigation like years. So that could be maybe four season 4
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possible, right? >> Then what is it in the So like you said, we're at 82. So >> well, and you're going to get I would
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imagine you're going to get big portions of Holden's life and family eventually because we
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got none of that in season two. You know, he had his girlfriend in season one. Nobody. He doesn't really seem to have
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anything in season two. And we get a whole lot of of Bill Ten's family with the u you know with his son seeing the
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the death of that kid. >> Yeah. Yeah. uh holding forward or Jonathan Gruff uh his he had an interview and I think I
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talked about this before but his interview with uh Fresh Air Terry Gross it was it's just so crazy because you I
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don't I didn't know anything about him. I don't I haven't seen him in anything else and to to know that he's a a part
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of uh Hamilton was on the original soundtrack and to hear his like great singing voice and to find out that he's
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been part of Broadway forever and you just you wonder how he got cast in this role. He's done such
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a great job job in this role but you just wonder how those musicals led to here. Well, I love
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when they when they go out and I mean when when you're taking this on. So, like you said, Finchure, if he
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gets his way, he he wants to do sounds like he wants to do five seasons. And it sounds like he walked into this going,
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"Okay, this is what this thing is. This is this is a story told throughout the course of five different seasons. It may
00:17:09
take seven, eight years to film all this and release it all." And I love when they go into something knowing that it's
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going to be a big project and they're like, "Let's cast somebody. Let's cast kind of an sort of an unknown for the
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the lead role or one of the lead roles." So that you know what I mean? Like you don't really go into it having seen
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Jonathan Gruff in really anything at all. And >> Bill Tench character, he's, you know,
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he's not a super famous actor, >> right? And so now you get to see them as it to me it just makes him Holden Ford
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more so than if you would have seen him in a bazillion other things. And it it makes
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>> Holton Maloney Mall I can't I don't know his Holt's last name. >> Yeah. Bill Tench.
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It makes him Bill Tench. And like you seen he I remember him from some like action type movies. Um,
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so, so he I mean he he looks the part for me, but um but yeah, like you said, he's not uh I don't remember him in any
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major starring role that I can think of. >> I I liked a lot of the interplay between
00:18:32
the uh BSI. I think his his character's name is Greg Smith. uh actor's name, Joe
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>> Tuttle. >> Tuttle. Joe Tuttle. And I I I think it's like there's these subtle scenes that I
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actually like after the scene happened, I went back, you know, just like, "Oh, that was a pretty good scene, I thought
00:19:00
there was something interesting there." So, I just rewind it and and and watch that part again. And even though his
00:19:07
character is not a main character, there's this interplay happening. And I think like when he has the one interview
00:19:14
where he felt like he shed the bed a little bit, >> um then you start seeing him like really
00:19:21
take his certain things serious and then when they're in these, you know, now you have
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this whole situation where his character Greg Smith is doing all this work inhouse, so is Wendy the doctor, and
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then Holden's off doing whatever, not focusing on this new material. material. So,
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it's almost like Holden's like, "Well, look, we created the term serial killer. We're good to go. Just, you know, we
00:19:50
don't need to learn anymore." And at this point, Wendy is learning a lot more. Greg is learning a lot more. So,
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then you see these conflicts. And there's a couple times that uh the character Greg Smith kind of corrects
00:20:03
the group. Well, actually, this is what this means. I I don't know if you if you
00:20:08
noticed that, but I thought um >> you know, not a giant part, but here's an actor doing a killer job of his part.
00:20:18
That I think that's what makes this uh show so interesting is how many people are just knocking their their role out
00:20:27
of the park. >> Yeah. And I I like his character a lot, too. I mean, he was his character was,
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you know, somewhat fun in in season one where he's, you know, he's in the passenger seat and he's telling hold for
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it and he's like, "We're the goddamn FBI." Um, >> and and yeah, you're right. It's like
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it's cool because you can see his he's evolving as a as an FBI agent and he's he's getting smarter and he's
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learning from the stuff that the the work that the BSU has already done. He's learning that and he's applying it. And
00:21:07
yeah, like you said, we're we have Holden Ford wants to be in Atlanta. John Douglas wants to be in Atlanta. He wants
00:21:14
to help solve that case. He recognizes that. Yes, there is a serial killer at work. There might even be more than one.
00:21:22
And he also believes that law enforcement, what little work they are doing at the time to to work on the
00:21:31
cases, they they have the wrong idea and and if they pursue keep pursuing that thought and that theory, they may
00:21:40
never solve the thing. And so I think that's why I don't I don't know that he I don't know that he's like devaluing
00:21:48
the interviews. I just feel like he I I I think it's more of a time better well served. It could be locking somebody up.
00:21:57
Locking up this this child killer down in Atlanta. And yeah, they're they're going to continue the uh the interviews
00:22:04
and like you said, Tuttle's going to be well, that's not his name. Greg Smith is
00:22:09
going to be um part of those interviews and still continuing the work that they were already doing while they're off
00:22:17
hopefully solving this crime because if the FBI solves it, um then Director Gun, who took over for the for the other
00:22:28
guy, he's going to get the credit that he wants for because remember we learn in season two and he's talking
00:22:37
about how he turned down some other job to take this job. And at first my thought was that he did it because he he
00:22:45
like really truly believes in the in the science and the mechanics of this whole
00:22:51
BSU thing. And what I think is actually going on is that it's more of a more of a politics thing for him. more
00:23:01
of a this this might be taking this job instead if this goes right could be my fastest track to where I want to be. So
00:23:11
that's why I think his his character you get those moments throughout season 2 where you where you kind of like him
00:23:18
because you're like, "Oh, wow. He recognizes that that Holden Ford has talent. You know, he has these talents
00:23:25
that other agents may not possess." And so you like him in moments or I did because he he seems to be all in on this
00:23:35
whole uh behavioral science unit. Um, and but then you get these moments where he
00:23:43
feels a little slimy, and I think that's what the sliminess is. I think underneath that that um gung-ho
00:23:53
uh you know, cheering on on the these guys, Bill and and and Holden. I think the sliminess is the is the the
00:24:02
polit the politics of of this guy and and and that he is just he's just using this as a stepping stone. He doesn't he
00:24:11
he may put off the appearance that he truly cares and he loves it, but he doesn't. That's just a that's just an
00:24:18
act and underneath he's he's just worried about his own uh because we see that at the end where they're they're
00:24:24
getting on that private jet and he's kind of he's kind of slimy in that in that scene too which is
00:24:31
>> well essentially he's not it's not it's not a stepping stone in the sense of there's a lot of places higher to go
00:24:38
up. I mean, it's you're the head of Quanico. I mean, that's pretty high to be up, but what kind
00:24:46
>> There's plenty of plenty of places for him to go after that. >> Yeah. But I also think it's it's a
00:24:52
different situation, too, because if you guys are doing good work, more funding become comes your way. And so that's
00:24:59
what you see with like the private jet. See, see what happens when we do good things, then they go, "Hey, get these
00:25:06
guys a private jet." >> Right? you know what I mean? So there's um there's some stepping stones without
00:25:13
actually having to change positions. Um and and but also just I think that is a good interplay with the politics that
00:25:23
you see in Atlanta and how they actually have to try to solve the cases and how much
00:25:30
of this nonsense. I mean, just like the the flyers that they're trying to have made so they can, you know, interview
00:25:36
these people to, you know, of this benefit concert and have their own security guards and and it just never
00:25:43
happens because >> because they're, oh, well, we have to get that approved and this has to happen
00:25:49
and it's just all this constant malarkey that, you know, nobody's going to want to have to deal
00:25:56
with. So, I think it's kind of neat that it shows how politics and how just systems in
00:26:03
general get in the way from, you know, coming to the conclusion of justice at the end.
00:26:11
>> And >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you'll see that more in more in some cases than others, but it it's it's
00:26:17
interesting to see play out on on screen. >> Well, and it it really shows, too. Um,
00:26:28
you know, and the the characters even talk about this towards the end of season two, but it's like holding
00:26:34
forward learning that yeah, they can go and help and assist in these investigations, but they're they're
00:26:42
there in somebody else's jurisdiction and they're not really in control of the actual investigation even though they're
00:26:48
assisting. And you know, because when when Wayne Williams is arrested, it's almost like, you know, Holden Holden
00:26:56
doesn't know that he's going to be arrested right then and there. Um, and so it it's it's interesting to see that
00:27:04
and Holden learning, okay, this is how it is. This is how it's, you know, and Bill Ten's trying to tell him, you know,
00:27:11
it we're not in control of of a lot of this stuff. We can't control everything. We're just here to to help these people.
00:27:21
Um, do you want to give your uh do you have a top five of characters or actors or
00:27:32
>> Well, I can rattle >> we can rattle off a few here. Um, so it was of course good to see
00:27:43
it was good to see that Ed Keer was in season 2 even though it was just for a little bit, but he was such he was so
00:27:50
polarizing in season 1, excuse me, that it was great to have him back. So, um, >> yeah, go watch him eat a egg egg salad
00:28:01
sandwich. >> What's his name? Cameron Britain or something like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh I would give him
00:28:08
number five. Uh mainly he'd be number one if he was in more episodes, but he I think he was only in what the first
00:28:17
episode of season 2. Um so he was great as always. The the Manson thing was interesting, but
00:28:30
um I don't know. I found so many other parts that I thought were were better. Um, and mainly because sometimes
00:28:40
parts to me are played better when when I don't have high expectations for a role or don't or unaware of a role even
00:28:48
existing going into it. But I really liked Albert Jones who played Jim Barney. So I would say him number four.
00:28:57
And I really liked um >> which one was Jimmy? Jim Barney. Jim Barney was the the field the FBI agent
00:29:05
in in the field office in in Atlanta. >> In Atlanta, right? The one that like they go they go to the uh wherever
00:29:12
they're stationed at first and there's nobody there and then next time they come back he's still there,
00:29:18
>> but now there's a million people there. Okay. >> And he's Yeah, he's he's working on the
00:29:22
investigation. And when Bill Tench is gone, he's kind of the guy that keeps Holden Ford kind of grounded. And
00:29:32
you know what? I'm going to give him, you know, I want to skip him for now because he was in so many episodes and
00:29:38
and played such a huge role in season two. I think he should be higher up on my list than number five. um that Sony
00:29:46
uh Valancenti that that plays the uh I love how a lot of websites still just list him as ADT serviceman, but we we
00:29:55
know he he is BTK. >> His character has got even more. >> That's going to be the twist though is
00:30:01
that this guy is not the BTK >> that somebody else somebody else is the BTK. >> So I give I love number four to Sony. I
00:30:12
love when um the BTK is printing stuff off at the library. >> Mhm. >> And and he's like, "That's my property."
00:30:21
And I'm like, >> "Yeah." >> Oh, yeah. Um >> well, remember he left a letter in one
00:30:28
of the library books for either the newspaper or for the police at some point in that whole BTK case.
00:30:38
So, I give Sunny Valancenti or if I'm I'm probably not saying his last name right, but I give him number four, BTK.
00:30:46
I'm with you. I liked Joe Tuttle a lot. Greg Smith, I liked his character a lot.
00:30:50
Um, so number three for him. Jonathan Gruff, of course, I mean, he's fantastic, but but he seems too obvious
00:31:00
to be on the on the list. I think Bill Tench's character expanded more. you got to see different layers of
00:31:07
>> Bill and he's just uh he's such the focal point, you know. >> Yeah. And the kid playing his son or his
00:31:16
adopted son, Brian, did real well. I don't I don't know that actor's name, but he he did real well. Like um I know
00:31:24
he doesn't have a lot of speaking parts, but >> but he did well in that. And but I'm
00:31:30
kind of getting unclear here, but I I would give my number one to um what was the gentleman's name that
00:31:37
you said played Wayne Williams? >> Oh, I have to go back. >> Christopher >> Christopher Livingston.
00:31:45
>> Yeah. And believe it or not, he's Yeah. Christopher Livingston. He's only in, according to this list,
00:31:54
he's only in three of the episodes, but I I mean, he did I thought he did a fantastic job.
00:32:02
>> Yeah. I love when they pull him over at on the bridge. >> He's just so nonchalant about everything.
00:32:10
>> Well, when he's got an answer for everything, too. Yeah. >> And that that's how Wayne Williams was
00:32:15
or is. It it's weird to me that uh well, I guess it's not weird, but it's interesting how some cases can
00:32:26
really grab your attention and and how certain perpetrators um will stick with you as opposed to
00:32:36
other ones and and how certain victims stick out to you as opposed to different ones. And um same way with like missing
00:32:45
person cases. Like some of them you might have no similarities to the person that went missing and but it's
00:32:53
just you're so wrapped up in the case. Um and Wayne Williams is kind of that way
00:33:00
where sometimes sometimes I look at the whole of of the Atlanta child murders and say, "Well, I don't think this is
00:33:06
one individual. I think it's you know 90ome percent one ind you know one individual and if that's Wayne Williams
00:33:16
I mean I am fascinated by the whole wanting to be a producer because I worked in that
00:33:25
you know industry so that time that they go and talk to the studio about oh yeah
00:33:31
Wayne used to bring like clients here like we had those guys we had those guys that were constantly looking for new
00:33:40
talent. Um, and and guys that had their their thing, you know, you you might have a guy that was looking for um the
00:33:50
next Snoop Dogg, next Eminem, and then you'd have another guy that knew that guy that he wasn't looking for any
00:33:59
rappers. He was looking for young female or or young male singers. >> Mhm. Um, most of them stayed away from
00:34:08
like the really young, most of it was like 16, 17 year old. Um um but to even to see that development,
00:34:18
you know, you go I mean it was just one of those things where it's like even if you got to really know the guy and you
00:34:25
knew that there they were a good person, the whole situation seemed a little strange, you know,
00:34:31
>> or the fact like you'd have a guy uh a really interesting producer and I won't say his name, but he he he
00:34:41
actually drove school buses and so the he would drive the school buses and then and because of that schedule he'd have
00:34:51
time to work with these artists. But if you just kind of like just got into the situation and you
00:34:58
never met the guy you'd be like this is kind of odd situation here, you know, like
00:35:03
>> why is he putting so much time and effort into uh these kids? and and he I think he did
00:35:11
want to help the kids, but I also think he just really loved the process of finding an artist, helping him write a
00:35:19
song and producing it and and just creating something. And then you see this uh you know Wayne Williams
00:35:25
situation where he's not even writing songs, >> right? >> He's just like and that
00:35:31
>> way Yeah. It's a way for him to get kids in his car. >> Yeah. But it made me want to dive in
00:35:37
more because I mean he did have a radio station. So I think I'm really interested in like narrative
00:35:48
and how people like paint the picture now. And it's like I I wonder if he'd had no songs at all
00:35:57
or if that was just the norm. you know, maybe he had one or two songs or like I would I want to know more about this
00:36:04
radio station, how he got it up and running, what did he do with it >> because at some point like they shut it
00:36:10
down, right? >> Um so a character that never really interested me much like things like that
00:36:18
like when they when they're in the recording studio and they're like, "Yeah, he didn't have songs." That
00:36:24
really kind of opened up a different door where I was like maybe this maybe he's a little more
00:36:31
interesting than I thought he was originally, which is weird cuz you think like maybe
00:36:38
if he had hundreds of songs he would be more interesting to me, but fact that he
00:36:43
had nothing, you know, or at least that's what they're reporting. He Wayne Williams is a guy that
00:36:53
he tells some interesting stories. I will say that. Um he's interesting to listen to just because the crazy wild
00:37:02
[ __ ] that comes out of his mouth. It it's almost like you want to look at him and go,
00:37:09
"How do you expect anybody to believe these lies? The these lies are so out there."
00:37:15
>> Yeah. No, nobody would, you know, like when when they were later able to prove
00:37:21
that he knew some of the victims, he came up with the story that the reason why he knew some of the victims was that
00:37:26
he was doing this um running some kind of training program for covert operatives,
00:37:35
>> right? where he, you know, like like he was training these these people to be
00:37:40
killers and he was funded by the government to to do it. And that's why part of the
00:37:47
reason why they had him arrested, the government wanted him arrested because um he was running some top secret stuff
00:37:54
and so they labeled him a child killer and stuck him behind bars. Like I mean he tells some some tales that are out
00:38:01
there. Um, >> well, and you see this I mean, you see this with all industries, but really
00:38:09
the the music industry is just it's such a I mean, you you played in a band. We played in bands together. I mean, you
00:38:18
you saw it. I mean, just with other bands, the amount of nonsense that people would talk, you know, about um
00:38:28
and then there would be like these like legends that, you know, somebody, you know, some band
00:38:34
was telling you, well, we were going to get signed and they were also looking at
00:38:39
Limp Biscuit or somebody like that, you know, >> and and however they tell the story, I
00:38:46
don't think they're necessarily like lying. I just once you really dive into the truth, it's a little bit different
00:38:52
than how it played out in their head, you know. >> So, it it's it definitely is an industry
00:38:58
that lends itself to, you know, you have to say it and you have to believe it before anybody else.
00:39:08
Uh, and even when you are something, um, most people won't believe that you're something. So, it lends itself to be
00:39:19
industry full of a lot of liars. So, again, it's like one of those things like chicken or the egg. Like was he
00:39:26
just like notorious for making up lies and [ __ ] like that beforehand and that's
00:39:32
how he got him into this line of work or did him, you know, Wayne Williams trying to become a
00:39:41
producer and trying to become like somebody important, did that cause him to start lying more, you know?
00:39:47
>> Um, but some of those guys, they become chronic liars and they just can't get
00:39:52
out of the cycle. Who was your favorite interview that they did in season two? >> Uh, I like uh Burkowitz and and Manson,
00:40:05
but that's because um and I couldn't tell because I I don't I don't know anything uh about
00:40:13
prosthetics or anything like that. But, uh, I've always really hated this thing where like we've made a lot of
00:40:24
things CGI that shouldn't be CGI. >> Mhm. >> And they probably could have, you know,
00:40:31
they probably could take some of these individuals and with CGI effects, make them look more like the real thing.
00:40:38
Um, but the fact that they're doing it old school with prosthetics, um, the B burkowits, I mean, if I didn't
00:40:48
look up images of him before I watched that episode, you know, then you notice, you know,
00:40:57
things that they got wrong. Um, but I mean, there's parts where it's like, are they talking to the real guy? And then
00:41:05
and is and is this like from 30 years ago? Um because Manson looks like Manson and Burkowitz
00:41:15
looks like Burkowitz. I mean I think they did a great job and those two and then also the Dean uh Coral um
00:41:26
uh what's the kid's name? Oh. Um, >> Henley. >> Yeah, Henley. Because we cover that
00:41:38
case. And so, just as they're talking about the case and talking about Dean Coral,
00:41:44
these, you know, we cover a case every week, so you kind of forget little things. But, it's just like at Crime Con
00:41:52
where somebody will bring up, hey, you covered this case. Oh, yeah. And then they start talking about it. And it's
00:41:57
almost like it opens up this whole doorway of information. >> Mhm. >> Then it comes flooding back to you and
00:42:05
like, "Oh yeah, okay. Now I remember it." But and so that that was kind of interesting as far as
00:42:11
my personal reaction once he started talking. It was like, "Oh my god." Yeah. And um
00:42:20
and you know obviously it's just a port portrayal of of this person but to kind of see
00:42:28
you know if that is more true to form that's one that would be interesting to know because obviously we have video
00:42:36
footage of Charles Manson and Burkowitz and I I don't think I've ever seen uh footage uh of Henley but
00:42:48
But, you know, it's kind of interesting to see how he interacts and just knowing
00:42:53
that case very well. So, >> yeah, he and actually I'm glad you brought him up because I kind of forgot
00:43:00
about I kind of forgot about him that yeah, that part was was good and super interesting as well. Um because that's
00:43:08
the that's the interview where where Greg Smith seems to feel like he he screwed
00:43:15
up, right? Like he wasn't up to snuff in that uh that interview because um >> No, it was before then.
00:43:24
>> It was before then. >> Yeah. And that I think that was the big difference is um
00:43:33
>> cuz I thought that was the one that Dr. Wendy Carr takes over the interview. >> Yeah, but I think there was another one
00:43:42
>> where he screwed up too. >> I think there was another one before that. I could
00:43:47
>> I think Burkowitz was my favorite interview of the of season two just because
00:43:52
>> he looked like him. >> He he he looked an awful lot like him, first of all. He talked like him, too.
00:43:59
And um and it was neat too because again it's you know some of the things that you know it always makes it more
00:44:09
interesting to see a dramatization of something that you're you you know some of the story of going into it like you
00:44:15
said with some of these investigations and the different um >> uh cases that we've covered. And
00:44:23
for him, like I knew some of the things that they were going to talk about in that interview, but it was neat to see
00:44:28
it actually play out and and how it carried out, how they kind of how Ford had to kind of rub his ego a little bit
00:44:36
and tell him like, "Hey, dude, you're famous." Like, you know, he's basically saying a hundred years from now, nobody
00:44:42
will know who I am, but everybody will know. Everybody will remember the son of Sam. you know, and he has to kind of
00:44:47
play to his ego a little bit to get him to to get him to open up because, you know, he he wants to know the the
00:44:56
details and to to get him to talk, he has to he has to play the game a little bit and it and it ends up working.
00:45:05
>> Now, I I can't pronounce her name. Anna, it's T O RV. Anna >> 12v >> uh she was on the Fringe which she
00:45:18
played a FBI agent on that as well. She's the doctor Dr. Wendy Carr. >> Uh which is funny is cuz everywhere it
00:45:27
says I'm always trying to figure out what Wendy's last name is. It's Carr. C A R R. Um
00:45:36
but I I really like her character in Mine Hunter. I like the fact that she plays such a strong uh female lead. Uh
00:45:44
and I think because again because there's so many parts of great acting in some of
00:45:51
them like look Charles Manson that's great. That scene is freaking amazing. >> Mhm.
00:45:59
>> And that's it. And maybe it wouldn't be as amazing if he had more parts or had
00:46:05
longer, you know, like longer screen time, right? Maybe you'd see some chinks in the armor. Uh, so I think then you
00:46:13
get like Jonathan Gruff, um, you know, Holton and Anna, um, being overshadowed by these
00:46:22
monumental figures that come in for about 15 minutes. But, uh, I don't think she should be overlooked as well. My my
00:46:30
quick rundown, I would I I'll go um I'll just go by character. Greg Smith, I'd give five,
00:46:41
I'd say. Uh um Ed Keer, four, Anna, three. Uh I don't know. That's tough cuz the
00:46:58
Atlanta FBI agent I like. Um but so yeah, that and Wayne Williams between, you know, a tide and then number one I'
00:47:09
I'd give to Bill uh because Bill's character is so uh essential to this season two story.
00:47:19
Um and I just think like there's like not a moment that he's not believable as that character.
00:47:30
Oliver Cooper, I guess, is the guy that played David Burkowitz. He's from Toledo, Ohio.
00:47:38
>> All right. Go Toledo. All right. Well, hopefully everybody enjoys their their Monday off. Uh if you
00:47:49
had the Monday off. I'm so used to being a banker that we get every holiday off >> and then some. Like even if you even if
00:48:02
somebody once thought there should be a holiday, they they give you that day off,
00:48:07
>> right? President's Day. >> Yeah. Bankers uh um we had a day off one time that had
00:48:15
no holiday, but somebody said, "Well, it's a bank holiday." I'm like, "But all holidays are bank holiday."
00:48:22
So yeah, and everybody's safe travels while you're going to your barbecues and whatnot.
00:48:32
[Music] [Applause]