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[Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you were doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who owns a whole heck of a lot of oceanfront
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see you thanks for listening thanks for Tom a friend [Music] this week we are very pleased to be
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a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Applause] [Music] morgen Chantal Nik was born on September
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12 1988 when she disappeared on Friday June 9th 1995 she was six years old four feet tall 55 pounds with blue eyes and
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long blonde hair she had a protruding purple vein on the lower left of her ribcage and five visible silver caps on
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her molars that were scheduled to be removed later the AMBER Alert in Arkansas is named after Morgan neck and
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a Y magazine article by Janie Jones titled the Morgan Nick story states an old superstition says if you make a wish
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when you see the first lightning bug of the year the wish will come true but for Colleen Nick lightning bugs
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remind her of the night her six-year-old daughter Morgan went missing and Colleen
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Nick had this to say in an interview back in 1997 Miz Nick said she still has hope Morgan will be found alive quote
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you can't give up until you know for sure I don't want to have to look my daughter in the eye and tell her I gave
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up she goes on to say quote I don't know who these people are that think they can do this to our children
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[Music] [Applause] [Music] on the day in question six-year-old Morgan Nick was with her
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mom Colleen the two drove from their home in Ozark Arkansas 30 miles away to Alma Arkansas Alma is a tiny town
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population was under 4,000 back in 1995 the town is nestled in the Ozark Mountains this is a rural area but Alma
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is bisected by a major highway this is interstate 80 and Alma is only 13 miles from the Oklahoma border Morgan and
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Colleen traveled to a ballpark to watch some little league baseball games with friends who lived in Alma they were
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meeting their friends there it was a long day of baseball with the final game between the pythons and the Marlins
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starting later than scheduled and stretching into the 10:00 p.m. time frame they estimate that there was about
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300 people watching the baseball game the crowd was involved active and at times allowed Morgan was wearing a green
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Girl Scouts t-shirt blue denim shorts and white sneakers Morgan stayed close to her mother hanging out with her on
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the bleachers the little girl enjoyed silly pranks and that night she was trying to trick her
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mother by climbing down by Colleen's feet and tying her shoelaces together sometime around 10:30 p.m. according to
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Colleen Morgan was asked by some other kids to come and catch fireflies with them
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apparently it was common for the kids hanging out during the games to play on a hill with grassy areas and a sand pile
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this is adjacent to the parking lot Morgan was shy and at first she did not want to go but then decided to ask her
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mom if she could join the other kids yeah I saw it reported that the mom at first said now I don't want you playing
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away from us but one of the other mothers said hey it's common for the kids to go play over there yeah the
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tricky thing here is the time involved it's awfully late at night it's going to be dark out yes
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it was the common play area for the ballpark and these two kids from my understanding they already knew Morgan
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it wasn't like they were new to Morgan right so this was a boy named ty he is 10 years old and an 8 year old girl
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named Jessica so I think it also helps when granting permission to go off and play in a different area that these two
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children are a little older than your six-year-old daughter yeah and I don't think this other mother was out of line
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to say hey kids play there all the time but baseball games are not played there all the time that late so this area is
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fairly well lit and Colleen said that she could see Morgan and the other kids running around from where she sat in the
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bleachers now she does admit that she occasionally lost sight of her daughter this play area was approximately 75
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yards from where Colleen was sitting but then the game ended now it's right around 10:45 p.m. so not too much time
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has passed between granting permission to go off and play in the end of this game at the time Ty and Jessica the two
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other children ran back up to the bleachers but as Colleen quickly noticed Morgan was not with them when she asked
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the youngsters about Morgan they said they last saw Morgan sitting in the parking lot she was emptying out her
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shoes according to the kids emptying out sand from her shoes and after that the two kids lost track of their little
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friend Colleen is now on high alert and she starts racing toward the parking lot
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given the situation the two kids just described Colleen assumed that Morgan would meet
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her at the car this is a Nissan stanza but when she got there to her car there was no sign of Morgan she looked for her
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in the area asking everyone if they had seen her but they had not the ballpark was clearing out and there was no sign
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of Morgan Colleen got the other parents and even some of the baseball coaches involved in this search someone with the
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cell phone offered the phone to Colleen and she called the police authorities were very quick to respond
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arriving within six minutes of Colleen's frantic call once on the scene the two little kids that were playing with
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Morgan Ty and Jessica told authorities that while they were playing a man that the two described simply as creepy this
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man came up to the three children and spoke to them well interesting since it's 1995 that somebody had a cell phone
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so that's lucky for them and good for the police to respond as quickly as they did do we have a report of what el
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Creepo said to these kids we do and we don't and I think we can dive into that more later when we're looking at the
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details of this possible suspect but I think what we should talk about here is why he immediately becomes a suspect so
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from the general understanding that we have in this situation we have about 300 people at this ball park and yes it's
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loud at times it's busy there's a lot going on these games are stretching far into the night much later than expected
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right this man according to these two children spoke with Morgan remember this this
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timeframe this window of time when this little girl goes missing about 15 minutes pretty short right yeah this guy
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during that timeframe speaks to this little girl and the two others right now the reason why we don't have a 100%
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confirmation about what he said to the children is because police stated early on this guy's a suspect and we are
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holding back the information of what was said to the children by this man right because we need something to weed out
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any possible false confessions or false confessors that may come forward right he becomes an immediate suspect because
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during the short window he interacts with the three children one of them who went missing and apparently once it is
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known that Morgan is missing has disappeared this man is gone too nobody remembers seeing him or his vehicle
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after they noticed it more was missing right I I think a lot of people would assume that this guy's out
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Creepo is driving around in a repo van but but he wasn't so this man is described as having a short or clipped
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beard some reports state that it was an half an inch thick he's estimated to be about 23 to 38
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years old about 6 feet tall 180 pounds slicked back dark hair wearing denim cutoff shorts no shirt or shoes with a
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hairy chest all right so he has a hairy chest means wearing shorts he spoke to the kids in what they refer to as a
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hillbilly accent so I'm just assuming that these other two kids are possibly not from around there because I think
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this would be kind of a standard local accent because it is Arkansas the two children were from Alma from the from
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that area who lived in that area who knows where they could have been born in Alaska for all I know right so maybe but
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so maybe it wasn't common in in their local area yeah the the interesting thing here too captain is that the two
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children were not the only ones to see this what we will refer to as quote the creepy man one female adult witness
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reported seeing the man as well she apparently also verified the description of the man she saw speaking to the kids
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right she says she only saw him from afar but the important thing is she is providing authorities with a very
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similar description of this man later this woman was actually hypnotized by authorities in Little Rock to see if she
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could provide any more information unfortunately she could not now we will continue to revisit this creepy man that
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was spotted talking to the children Morgan being one of them we will revisit him as he is the crux of our case of her
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disappearance other than the three persons we have already discussed the two children playing with Morgan and an
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unnamed woman no one else seems to have remarked about this to investigators and
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Morgan's mother never saw this correct now nobody else coming forward this could be for any number of reasons
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it could be that this is a small town this man is known to locals and not seen as a threat and is really just a red
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herring or he could be someone who had a legitimate reason to be there that night
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so he didn't trigger any alarm bells or it could just be that no one other than our three witnesses noticed this man at
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all right the creepy man that we have discussed is considered a suspect not just because he was seen talking with
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these three children but also because he was seen by the woman when Morgan is there and accounted for then just a
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short time later Morgan is gone and apparently this man seems to be gone as well but at some point Morgan's mom also
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saw her plane so we have a window of 15 minutes now we have a eyewitness seeing the creepy man we also have probably
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other sightings from Morgan's mother seeing Morgan play so you could narrow down this window to probably within a
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couple minutes of when she was actually taken a sketch of the man was circulated
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and a description of a vehicle that the creepy man may have been driving was also circulated shortly after the
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abduction the charly project website states based on reporting at the time that witnesses at the ballgame said the
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unidentified man may have been seen near a red Ford pickup truck with a white camper which was about five inches too
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small for the truck bed the campers windows were covered with curtains the truck had a dull paint job because it
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was clearly old likely vintage they estimate between 1968 and 1974 and had a short wheelbase and was possibly damaged
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on its right rear end reports that it had Arkansas plates also circulated now breaks my heart to report that Morgan
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she has never been seen or heard from since there are some really important aspects to this abduction that are key
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and unfortunately not very helpful to investigators no one saw Morgan leaved the ballpark at all no one
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saw this little girl leave the ballpark alone or with anyone else she simply was there and then she wasn't
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whoa right and nobody saw her leaving because she was in the camper at the back of that truck
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it is usually reported in connection with this case that there were other attempted abductions around the same
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time now one in particular reported was that earlier that same day in a laundromat in Alma
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there was a bearded man trying to pull a nine-year-old girl out of the laundromat
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and into his truck somebody stepped in intervene in this abduction was stopped red truck says his truck I don't have a
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description of the truck itself right also on the day Morgan was abducted June 9 1995 there was another attempted
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abduction this was reported - from earlier in the day this is in regards to a four year old in Alma the attempted
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abduction stopped when the girl screamed and was saved by her mother the suspect it's been reported resembled
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Nick's abductor the next day June 10th an attempted abduction of a nine-year-old girl is reported in Fort
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Smith force Smith is just about 15 miles away the girl reported a suspect resembling Nick's abductor tried to get
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her to go into the men's restroom with him but she resisted I do want to throw out a little caveat to everybody
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listening out there those three attempted abductions those are legitimate reports that we found I have
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some suspicions that there were actually only two right and that one of the the stories of an attempted abduction has
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kind of changed or you know been molded throughout the years so it sounds like it's a second report but there are two
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legitimate at least two of these are absolute legitimate the third possibly as well it's just important to point out
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here that we have at least two situations where somebody stating somebody that looks like this same guy
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right possibly could have tried to abduct a young girl just within 24 hours of Morgan Nick going missing I will put the
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composite drawing on Instagram Facebook Twitter all that stuff at true crime garage just a couple weeks later this is
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on June 26th a Gardner claimed he saw Morgan this is Albert Harvey he's a gardener
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for State Representative Wanda Northcutt he told police Saturday morning that while clearing brush from behind mrs.
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North cuts home he saw a man trying to get into his truck he said the man had a blond headed girl with him and when the
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man realized Harvey had seen him the man grabbed the child's wrist and fled into
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a nearby thicket he claimed the man matched the description of Morgan Nick's alleged abductor right
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police concentrated their search on an area around mrs. North cuts home searchers combed the area on foot
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horseback and four wheeled vehicles they used police dogs and a helicopter this article goes on to say the nationwide
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search for Morgan has produced hundreds of leads but nothing concrete a widely distributed composite sketch of the
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suspect shows a white man with salt-and-pepper hair and a short beard driving a faded red Ford pickup with an
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ill-fitting white camper shell police find nothing during this search not even a clue or a lead then Albert Harvey took
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a polygraph afterward he said he made the story up he apologized and had no explanation for Morgan's family yeah
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that's that's so stupid again that's why we point out that they hold things back
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to weed out the the crazies the false confessors that come forward this man just wanted to be a part of the story
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right and he offers a false lead to police the aggravating thing here for the victims and for the families is that
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police efforts are concentrated on this man's bogus story well yeah the time in the effort they spent search
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I mean you're lying [ __ ] princess this is less than three weeks after the abduction this is this is crucial time
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here being wasted on a bogus store right it's very crucial and also if his story
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is correct it's telling us something it's telling us that this perpetrator kidnapped this
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girl and that she's still alive and and that there's you I mean like it's false hope the investigation and that the girl
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is still alive the fourth of July Baxter bulletin newspaper ran a story about the
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TV show America's Most Wanted which ran a segment on Morgan's case just July fourth of that year right which produced
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a lot of tips some coming from other states Texas Washington and Alabama any leads that police were calling hot were
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rundown and nothing came of the tips in the information provided by tipsters then on July 7th 1995 less than a month
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after Morgan was abducted a Baxter bulletin headline read girls report kidnap attempt third such incident
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during last ten days the article goes on to tell this was a possible abduction attempt in late June in Cotter and one
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last week so that would be late June or early July this took place in mountain home
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write the article does not describe the attempts just saying that the suspect in
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both cases resembled the composite sketch of the creepy man that was released after Morgan's abduction the
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third attempt stated its detailed and quite alarming taking place on July 5th and 6th when two men one described as 20
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to 30 years old about 6 feet tall weighing about 170 pounds with short hair and a black beard wearing a black
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shirt and black pants now the other man is described as younger possibly a teenager with blonde
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hair the younger man was driving an older two-tone brown car with Arkansas plates with seven-11
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as the last three digits the two girl girls were both 11 years old and said the two men tried to pick them up in a
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pebble Creek subdivision the report states that they tried to run the girls over when they refused to go with the
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men the girl said they saw the men again the next day after seeing them the second time they told their parents and
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the police were notified there was an active manhunt for these two men however Sheriff Benny Magnus who would
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have known a good deal more than what we have here to report stated he did not think these incidents were related to
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the Morgan Nick case boy right and let's unpack this a little bit we have several
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eyewitnesses see possible other abductions and they state there's a single individual and they mentioned
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this truck possibly a red or faded truck so it wouldn't be that uncommon if the abductors were going to continue
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that the perpetrator would switch out his vehicle for a red truck to a faded brown vehicle but now you have another
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suspect with that individual and and I think that's where they're they're separating the two well I think that
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presents a lot of good questions about the description we're given of this creepy man at the ball park rain how
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much do we really know about this guy we don't even know if the vehicle description is describing his vehicle
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right you know this guy was seen on foot we don't know if he if he walked to the
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ballpark and then left on foot and the other thing too is we don't know if somebody was with him we don't know if
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it was a different vehicle completely yeah but we don't have anybody coming forward stating hey that was my Ford red
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truck with the camper on it we also don't have anybody coming forward saying I was the man that spoke to those
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children Morgan's parents Colleen and John set up residence in the local firehouse for six weeks after the
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disappearance and eventually Colleen moved to full time to keep searching for her dog
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out daily harvest comm today [Music] all right cheers you filthy animals make sure you be careful and cheers to the
00:28:11
clean people - yeah not just the animals that don't have thumbs right and uh the clean the clean
00:28:20
humans that listen to the show watch out for the amateurs and cheers and happy new years to everybody in 1995 there
00:28:27
were two supposed sightings of Morgan in the company of a man in South Carolina that resulted in a sketch being
00:28:34
circulated that is available on the internet with a partial license plate nothing came of these two sightings that
00:28:42
we know of but then on September 12 1995 three people in a small town in central
00:28:50
Arizona say they saw Morgan Nick three people reported seeing a little girl who looked like Morgan accompanied by a man
00:28:58
matching the description given on the composite drawing driving a late-model Ford pickup with Arkansas plates this is
00:29:07
in Payson Arizona hundreds of miles west of where she disappeared police searched
00:29:13
the town but found nothing well this is a scary suspect when you think about it eyewitnesses see a man at the ballpark
00:29:21
with a truck possibly a camper attached this this guy this individual could be a
00:29:28
nomad yeah and really with all of these stories whether it be a sighting or another possible abduction I really just
00:29:36
wanted to learn more of the details of such because they're really left out of these stories here and to see if we can
00:29:44
find anything that matches up with what we do know about Morgan Nick's disappearance and abduction usually what
00:29:52
I find here captain is when you have that type of situation where it's actually not connected to the case at
00:30:00
all or followed up on and it just really goes nowhere that's why there's a lack of details because they're not really
00:30:08
necessary to this story so one has to wonder is there truth in any of these other possible connects
00:30:15
or even some of the sightings of Morgan neck but it does show you the grand scale of this investigation and how
00:30:23
everybody out there was aware of this missing girl right there is a story from May of 1997 and I'm not going to read
00:30:32
the entire article because there are some details as far as victims name that I don't really want to get into because
00:30:41
again this is another situation that seems like it could be linked but we don't have any evidence to 100% back
00:30:47
that up but I think you'll find this story strange and interesting this comes from May of 1997 in Spiro Oklahoma
00:30:59
mm-hmm this is where police were collecting ball game videos looking for clues in a girl's abduction right okay
00:31:08
so yes this is another state away but remember we said earlier that Alma was only what 13 15 miles from the Oklahoma
00:31:17
State border right and this is a town Spiro Spiro however you say it that will come up in this Morgan Nick
00:31:26
investigation time and time again so that's why I find this story to be so interesting this is a abduction a
00:31:33
successful abduction not just an attempted one like we've already discussed of a four year old girl
00:31:40
it sounds to me the way that this article reads my first thought was oh [ __ ] this little girl was abducted from
00:31:48
a ball park hmm just like Morgan Nick it sounds to me like her home was right across the street from a ball park right
00:31:57
and she may have been abducted just outside of the ball park or from her home from her property regardless they
00:32:04
were collecting you know mom and dad shows up with the video camera to watch their daughter or their son play sports
00:32:11
film everything well we have an abduction that took place if you were there we want to see your video we want
00:32:18
to see what is on that video what did you pick up in the background vehicles did you actually videotape unknowing to
00:32:25
yourself the the abduction of this girl right or people taking pictures of their kids playing playing games and
00:32:32
what evidence is in those photographs yeah and the reason why I don't want to give out the victim's name here is again
00:32:42
we don't know that this is connected it seems very interesting not far away less than two years after Morgan Nick
00:32:50
was abducted right same type of area maybe same type of ruse used fortunately this little girl was let go
00:32:59
she was found hours later on the side of the road apparently I don't know what took place during the course of the time
00:33:08
that she was missing but eventually her captor dropped her off on the side of the road miles away
00:33:14
well it's interesting too because a lot of the attempted abductions were coming for on girls around the age of 10 or 11
00:33:23
so the other thing here too that I want to point out is I can't say for certain that the this abduction is solved or
00:33:33
unsolved I couldn't find any record of it after this this situation of them finding the girl and collecting evidence
00:33:40
right but we got the victim back and seems like she's unharmed I'm thinking of reaching out to her to see what
00:33:49
information she can provide you never know because sometimes these things are most let's face it most child abductions
00:33:56
are a parental issue a custody battle where a parent takes the kid without the other parent knowing or allowing to
00:34:08
happen that could be the case here but I find this one very interesting now we do
00:34:14
know that in Morgan Nick's situation they did the same thing they were looking for anybody with a video camera
00:34:20
with their camera to see if they could find evidence regarding Morgan Nick's disappearance on those videotapes or on
00:34:30
those pictures the interesting thing really the really important thing I think that we have
00:34:36
here 300 people at the ballpark of all that stuff that was collect did we don't have any confirmation of
00:34:46
this faded red Ford pickup truck on any of those videotapes or on anybody's pictures from that night which again I
00:34:55
don't it's not impossible I don't think that's a as big of a deal it's once you add the camper element this is a truck
00:35:03
with a camper attached to the bed yeah the fact that that is not seen in anything is kind of odd but again I
00:35:11
don't think these these eye witnesses were making that up I because I think they're the devil is always in the
00:35:18
details and when they say the campers the campers seemed maybe five inches too short for the bed of the truck mm-hmm
00:35:26
that that's detail in October of 1997 the Baxter bulletin reported that the police had confiscated some items during
00:35:36
a September search according to the affidavit filed in Crawford County police searched an unnamed man's home
00:35:45
and vehicle the man's name was brought forward to police by another man who says he was friends with this now
00:35:52
suspect for about 13 years uh-huh the suspect talked to the informant that's his friend or former
00:35:59
friend whatever you want to call him about Morgan's abduction after the informant told police they set up a
00:36:06
video surveillance operation where again the man made statements about Morgan's abduction this time on videotape police
00:36:14
used this videotape to secure a search warrant during the search of the suspects vehicle listed as a dark blue
00:36:22
1988 Ford pickup investigators found a glove and a piece of paper both with dark red stains on them which
00:36:31
investigators thought could possibly be blood right inside the man's home they found a pink toothbrush and hair fibers
00:36:40
on a roll of duct tape when they attempted to question the man he gave authorities his a lawyer's business card
00:36:48
and they were unable to arrest the man or even question him police are unable to move on from this man until the
00:36:56
of the test regarding the mention items comes back right this would end up taking about a year for the results and
00:37:03
when they come back police are unable to link any of these items to morgan neck captain this is where things are going
00:37:11
to get wonky and that's the best word to describe this I prefer things to be a little wonky well in 2000 really wonky
00:37:20
there you go in 2001 Arkansas authorities circulated a new sketch a new sketch of the suspect suspected in
00:37:29
Morgan Nick's abduction I hate when they do this so they did that with the Delphi
00:37:34
murders as well Delphi they did it in a me Mahalo Vic's case we've seen this actually this is more common than people
00:37:40
understand it to be often I find that it is a much shorter duration then what is
00:37:51
this we're at five six years now right yeah but it could be similar like with the Delphi murders they actually had a
00:37:57
sketch earlier they didn't release it correct so this is this is what we know because that's where you really go okay
00:38:05
they're making a new sketch maybe they're just updating the old one no they if you look at the new sketch that
00:38:11
is not the same man that is in the first sketch that's obvious and they have said
00:38:17
so they've said that is the case now what they state in this in 2001 is that Arkansas authorities circulated a new
00:38:25
sketch this one based on actual actual witness statements from the ballpark and this sketch does not really resemble the
00:38:36
sketch initially circulated right so I'm looking at the first sketch or what I think is the first catch thicker beard
00:38:43
looks like thicker hair thicker eyebrows definitely a different nose a wider nose
00:38:50
and a very distinct square jaw line right and that's original from 1995 and then and I wouldn't say anything from
00:39:04
that original drawing looked he doesn't look that creepy then you go to the new sketch and it's creep city
00:39:14
which is a wonderful place to vacation with your family no it's not a place that you want to go to you can't fly
00:39:22
there on any airline that I know of the bad thing is it's right by parts unknown
00:39:25
so the thing here that I find weird too is we don't really know why these children describe this unknown man or
00:39:33
potential suspect as a creep right we don't have any details to back up that statement oh he was creepy because of a
00:39:42
B and C no we just have their general statement of a ten year old and an eight year old saying that he was a creepy man
00:39:50
yeah but again I think if you look at the original sketch from 95 it looks more cartoony to me so I think
00:39:58
seeing that I go yeah the creep bells aren't alarming they're not going off but in this new one kind of looks to
00:40:07
shovel it kind of looks like it's a it's almost like a beard that it's the guy's
00:40:11
not trying to grow on the beard he just hasn't shaved maybe possibly receding hairline again slicked hair but it
00:40:20
almost like greasy not because they put product in it or anything but it's just greasy your hair and then the eyes to me
00:40:29
they look like dead eyes but what's interesting to me or what I want to know is how we got from this first sketch
00:40:37
that looks nothing like the second sketch yes and that's what I really want to talk about here well but also we have
00:40:45
to on some level re-examine all the possible abductions where people said hey the guy that I saw trying to abduct
00:40:56
this girl look just like the original sketch well one phrase the that hit me hard not too long ago and I've repeated
00:41:04
it a few times is and I found this during the course of investigating some of the cases that we've looked into
00:41:10
Dushku know is sometimes we see what we want to see even if it's subconsciously where when you're later asked what did
00:41:22
the man look like well if he didn't look unlike the suspect or unlike the sketch
00:41:28
that was released you might say he looked like that guy rather than the true statement would be he didn't look
00:41:35
unlike that man right so you asked a very good question how do we get from one composite to what is obviously a
00:41:44
different man that is drawn in released to the public in the second composite drop it absolutely drives me insane so
00:41:52
there's some good information on that regarding in comparison the first sketch to the second one thing that I find
00:42:00
interesting too captain is the first sketch we have a description of what the man is wearing he's wearing the cutoff
00:42:05
jean shorts no sure they're called shorts no socks no shoes in the second composite we get no description of what
00:42:14
the man is wearing right originally when panic set in in the community when Morgan Nick was first abducted within
00:42:22
the hours and days of the abduction the original thought by the locals was that this had to be some outsider this had to
00:42:30
be some maniac some sicko pervert passing through that took Morgan and we don't have to be afraid because he's not
00:42:39
a local he's not here anymore when they released the composite a lot of that thought in fear shifted to that it could
00:42:47
be a local why the description of the vehicle states that possibly had Arkansas plates right then on top of
00:42:54
that when you really start to think about it to the description of the man shirtless with no shoes hairy chest
00:43:02
I don't know I just don't see some guy driving from states away shirtless and shoeless that just pops into this
00:43:09
ballpark all of a sudden at 10 o'clock at night 10:45 at night and sees the golden opportunity and abducts this
00:43:16
little girl and it works out great for him nobody saw the abduction nobody knows who he is okay but hold on let's
00:43:23
go back to you don't see ya outsider driving to the ballpark go over that why don't you see that
00:43:32
well this would have been off of the highway it's not like he just happened to happen upon the ballpark and these
00:43:40
unattended children and then on top of that what I'm getting at to me shirtless and shoeless suggests that the man could
00:43:47
be local more so than somebody passing through I would agree with you if there wasn't a freaking camper attached to his
00:43:55
truck if that is his truck right correct you are correct sir and the other thing
00:44:01
so I'm saying that makes more sense if that is his truck and we have a camper hey I'm just I'm I'm relaxing because
00:44:09
I'm at home this is my home this guy is a he could be from that state if the license plate suggests so but I almost
00:44:20
feel like that this individual maybe went there not so much to abduct a kid but hey we can go park at this at this
00:44:31
baseball field and we don't have to pay for campground yeah and and now that I'm
00:44:39
here and I'm just kind of lounging around oh well I am a predator and there's victims all over the place the
00:44:48
other thing I want to point out regarding the first information regarding our suspect that came out was
00:44:53
let's go back to our what the Charlie project website States based on reporting at the time the witness at the
00:45:01
ball park game said the unidentified man may have been seen near a red Ford pickup truck with a white camper which
00:45:08
was about five inches too small for the truck bed I'm with you captain I like the detailed information there right the
00:45:16
campers windows were covered with curtains again I like that maybe he's considered creepy because you don't see
00:45:22
these campers all the time maybe they just found the kids found that to be weird yeah I mean we did a big campaign
00:45:30
last year about banning the van maybe it should have been banning the the creepy
00:45:37
I call them cowboy campers well yeah I don't want to about a ban the creepy camper
00:45:44
and it'll be a truck with a camper on it here's where I think that the description mm-hmm
00:45:50
gets a little wonky remember we're getting wonky here willy wonka the truck had a doll paint job because it was
00:45:57
clearly old likely vintage 1968 to 1974 with a short wheelbase and was possibly damaged on its right
00:46:05
rear end reports that it also had Arkansas plates I'm just pointing out here ty is ten years old the girl is
00:46:18
eight years old right we know from the woman's statements that she said she saw this man but from afar we can assume two
00:46:27
things either she's able to provide better detailed information because she's older wiser more life experiences
00:46:34
mmm she's an adult these are two small children hmm or she's able to provide less detailed information because she's
00:46:42
far away from this person yeah what I'm trying what I'm trying to point out here
00:46:47
is right I don't think that the woman is the one that's we have a statement from
00:46:53
law enforcement saying we like her information that she provided because it's backing up the information that the
00:46:59
children provided us which could be as simple as a vague description of this man and I saw him talking to those two
00:47:05
kids and the two kids later telling police we only spoke to one man and so that's their their validation for those
00:47:14
witness accounts right I don't believe or I have a hard time believing that this woman from afar saw this man's
00:47:24
vehicle or was able to provide a detailed description to down to the the make of the vehicle potential year of
00:47:32
the vehicle I can get if she saw in the distance mind you it's dark out right if
00:47:37
she saw in the distance as a doll red maybe orange pickup you'd be able to see the camera you would be able to see the
00:47:44
camper that's about the best description you're going to get from afar in the dark so what I'm getting at is this
00:47:50
detailed description I have to believe comes from the two children I don't think you have to believe that I think
00:47:57
it's also very possible when they interviewed the 300 and some people watching the game
00:48:03
that somebody said well I didn't see this el Creepo by the creepy camper but I I did see the truck and and this is
00:48:14
what I notice about the truck so we can't a hundred percent that's a that's a possibility but we do have statements
00:48:22
saying that these are the only three witnesses right there that night the eyewitnesses of the man we do know that
00:48:29
police were looking for video tapes and four photographs that would contain any of the information that the witnesses
00:48:34
saw and couldn't find any of that I'm not questioning if the truck is there I'm not questioning that one bit what
00:48:41
I'm stating is I I believe that the description of the vehicle could be coming from the children if that's the
00:48:48
case regardless if it comes from the woman who's afar or the children the description of the vehicle is too
00:48:55
detailed to come from children or to come from a woman who who in her own word says I only saw the man from afar
00:49:04
she never says I saw his truck she never says that I saw him up close we're standing by the truck I find it weird
00:49:12
that a ten year old or an 8 year old is saying that this is a late-model vehicle
00:49:17
with a short wheelbase yeah yeah I get that there's probably damage to the vehicle that child would recognize that
00:49:24
a child would probably would definitely recognize Arkansas plates the reason why
00:49:28
I'm going through this whole tailspin here is because once you change the composite sketch of the suspect now you
00:49:35
change a lot of what very little we and the police know of this abduction or possible suspect you asked a damn good
00:49:45
question why do we even have a change in the composite sketch at all well I'm sure a lot of people were thinking that
00:49:51
but the only evidence the only work that I could see done on the reason why it changed came out in 2018 many years
00:50:02
after Morgan Nick was abducted and many years after the composite itself changed
00:50:08
one investigative journalist and you can find the articles on today and Fort Smith calm
00:50:15
Fort Smith as many already know is not very far from from our location in question right this reporter and some of
00:50:27
this information is backed up by police but not 100% not 100% backed up not verbatim not
00:50:34
word-for-word just a few of the details have been confirmed by police in a statement to which they are kind of
00:50:42
apologizing or saying that there were missteps in the investigation what this report ups in every investigation the
00:50:50
the problem is we're not calling anybody bad at their job when you're investigating something you are you are
00:50:58
following a phantom it ain't easy to follow the moves of a phantom when you have to piece it all together there will
00:51:06
be missteps that's how you that's how you eliminate the innocent people from the one guilty person yeah especially in
00:51:14
a case like this I mean it's we have several people in the location but very few eyewitnesses and then we have this
00:51:21
very like you were saying it's very Willie wonky situation where you have young kids as eyewitnesses now we have
00:51:29
this odd vehicle this truck with a camper that's just odd in general it's very Willie wonky the description
00:51:37
changed according to today in Fort Smith calm because it was not based off of the
00:51:45
abduction of Morgan neck the the original composite sketch that was put out that contained what this man was
00:51:52
wearing and not wearing along with the vehicle description came about from witnesses to the other attempted
00:52:01
abductions that took place police at the time having no information to go off of
00:52:06
they believed that they likely could be connected and because of whatever this to me also points out the lack of
00:52:15
information provided to them from the three witnesses at the ball park yeah they're going with this because they
00:52:21
have nothing else to go on and what they said was we made the composite of and that was seen in one of the other
00:52:28
abducting abduction attempts showed it to our three witnesses at the ballpark and they said yeah on a scale of one to
00:52:35
ten it's an eight and so that being the only thing and only information that they went off of right they released it
00:52:42
to the public it's a it's in desperation that they do this and they're doing this
00:52:47
regardless if anybody thinks this is an error a mistake or just wrongdoing they did this in desperation because they
00:52:55
were trying to find anything they could to lead them to this little girl and bring her home safely all right so
00:53:01
you're saying that this whole report that he's wearing jorts and he has a hairy chest this is not coming from by
00:53:09
witnesses of the ballpark this is coming from the other attempted abductions that's what's confusing here and that's
00:53:17
why I questioned the the vehicle description I questioned the clothing description because we know that the
00:53:22
man's description has changed what we do have is police later saying when when they say look we had to do this and this
00:53:31
is why we don't have to do anything they I mean don't fault them they feel guilty
00:53:36
for it they feel bad for it right they did a half I'm not gonna fault somebody for for doing what they believe in the
00:53:45
heat of the moment to be the right thing you could easily say that these attempted abductions we believe are
00:53:52
linked to Morgan Nick's disappearance and what that perpetrator was wearing at the time was this so the statement that
00:54:03
the police gave in 2018 regarding the clothing because that's that's the next question that everybody wants to know
00:54:09
well you you changed the composite but now we're realizing we also have this description of a vehicle we have
00:54:16
description of what the suspect may or may not have been wearing does that change the answer simply put was they
00:54:23
had a hard time confirming between the three witnesses at the ballpark exactly what the man was wearing that night so
00:54:30
rather than make another mistake they chose not to include it on the new composite that came out five six years
00:54:39
later why can understand why people would be confused when you see something that
00:54:44
looks like jeans but they're short like shorts is confusing well again a lot of people don't see jorts the problem here
00:54:54
is is simply put what we state stated earlier nobody saw Morgan Nick leave the ballpark nobody saw her leave alone or
00:55:02
with somebody else right nobody heard a scream nobody saw a man grab a child and
00:55:07
throw the child inside a vehicle and speed off right but had that gone down we would have a better different
00:55:15
description from the two children and from the woman from afar plus we would have other eyewitnesses that would have
00:55:21
noticed something going on right when you have a situation where nobody knows that something wrong is about to happen
00:55:29
you lose some of those details people are not really focusing in or honing in on certain details at the time because
00:55:37
life most of the time is just ordinary this was just an ordinary moment until later they realized that this girl was
00:55:45
missing well I don't think so I think I think mother's intuition I think when her daughter was saying when Morgan was
00:55:53
saying it let me go play and the mom said now we're not gonna do that I don't think it was so much that it was dark
00:56:01
she saw other kids playing I think that was mother it's intuition that something
00:56:06
right something's not right and then she got reassurance from somebody else don't
00:56:12
worry they play here all the time and then she let her out of her sights and and but I think that was some
00:56:21
something toner don't don't let your daughter go play the other thing too and this is just a reminder like we've done
00:56:28
in so many other cases Aimee Mahalo VIX comes to mind immediately if you suspect
00:56:34
someone or suspect something in regards to someone you know or maybe you've only
00:56:40
kind of know them right do not hesitate to provide that information to authorities just because anything given
00:56:50
an either composite would cancel out your suspicion well I'm like like you were saying there
00:56:55
was a couple there was at least one abduction where they say there was a truck but they believe the truck was
00:57:01
blue if the eyewitness accounts of the truck with the the camper maybe it wasn't red
00:57:08
maybe it was blue hmm and and but that's the stuff that frustrates me because somebody could be reading the newspaper
00:57:17
let's say in 1995 and says okay wow this kid was abducted oh I kind of know this
00:57:22
weirdo he has a he has a red truck or he has a blue truck or whatever color truck
00:57:28
he has he has a brown truck with a camper it's too small for the bed kind of strange but it doesn't match or it
00:57:38
has Texas plates or you know there's one thing that's off or a couple things that
00:57:44
are off and you go well I'm not gonna call him call it in I don't want to disrupt his life because it can't be him
00:57:49
because he's not from Arkansas or any other number of reasons and the problem is then you learned later on years later
00:57:57
that scratch that you really know nothing about the likely suspect right in 2010 federal investigators this took
00:58:09
place in November federal investigators searched a vacant trailer home in Spiro Oklahoma for DNA evidence in the Morgan
00:58:20
Nick case again this is where we hear that town name again they zeroed in on this trailer because they received a tip
00:58:27
they searched the same area again on December 18th and 19th seven years later in 2017 and a cadaver dog alerted to a
00:58:38
well that was found on the property but nothing was found in the well right but they could be alerting to some remnants
00:58:47
of something yeah there was nothing found in regards to Morgan's case and apparently this tip was from a narcotics
00:58:58
officer who alerted police to the abandoned home which belonged to a convicted child molester who was in
00:59:04
prison at the time of both of the searches the tip technically didn't pertain specifically to Morgan's case but
00:59:13
because the guy was on their suspect list they searched it right and he may have just been on the suspect list
00:59:20
because of where he was living and that he was convicted child molester I'd like
00:59:25
to know what his vehicle history was back to our creepy guy captain in the cowboy camper with the faded red truck
00:59:34
or who knows what he was drugged by the creepy camper further according to the 2018 investigative reporter looking into
00:59:43
the case this is the one that I feel put out some good information you can call it a leak you could call it speculation
00:59:50
what have you it's thought-provoking regarding Morgan Nick's case that I'm hoping does not dry up this
00:59:59
investigative reporter said that the FBI profilers that took a look at the case concluded early on that the shirtless
01:00:08
man seen talking to the kids was not a likely suspect really they thought that it would be certainly strange for
01:00:16
someone shirtless and shoeless to abduct a child in his somewhat ragged appearance seems to indicate that he was
01:00:23
likely a local who lived nearby what they are kind of suggesting here captain is maybe this individual didn't belong
01:00:31
to that vehicle did that to that truck right maybe it was somebody that lived nearby that happened to be passing
01:00:37
through on foot or had a reason to be at the ballpark right shirtless shoeless is
01:00:43
awfully casual yeah again I don't find it that casual if your if your house is in the back of your truck right but I
01:00:52
think what the FBI profilers are pointing out here is a couple things one we don't know if this man that was seen
01:00:58
that spoke to the children in fact took Morgan right that's just the suspicion too we don't know if he and the vehicle
01:01:06
belong together right three we don't even know if he had a vehicle there with him right I want to get into some of the
01:01:13
details of that night one I questioned it immediately the timeframe 10:30 at night who's playing a little
01:01:21
baseball game at 10:30 at night it ends at 10:45 I'm not gonna lies I questioned
01:01:27
a little Colleen allowing her six-year-old daughter to go off and play away from her that late at night you're
01:01:34
right but that's a very good question because she questions it herself correct and and I throw no fault at her
01:01:40
especially when you have locals people that you know and trust telling you all the kids go over there and play look
01:01:45
it's it's lit we can see them from here no big deal plus the game's gonna be over pretty soon right I think that the
01:01:52
where you would think that the number of people in the ballpark that evening that
01:01:58
night would help you in this investigation you know it gives you more sets of eyes more sets of ears I think
01:02:06
in this situation it may have hurt the investigation I wonder if we have if we have a crowd that's active that's loud
01:02:14
that's involved in the game my understanding is it was a tournament that was going on that day right and
01:02:21
that's why they had played so late because it's probably the championship game and they're trying to get it over
01:02:25
with well not only that my understanding is the game was supposed to the game that
01:02:29
they were watching was supposed to start something like two and a half or three hours earlier than what it actually
01:02:37
started and you and I growing up we played in soccer tournaments you probably played in baseball tournaments
01:02:43
I was terrible at baseball that's why I like to watch it I was bad at baseball too but I played in tournaments so now
01:02:50
with me you watch but the regarding these tournaments in basketball tournaments so on and so forth we all
01:02:57
know that if the first game runs long or if there's any kind of slip-up in between games it pushes everything back
01:03:04
and then if there's another slip-up or another game goes along it pushes everything back right and further and
01:03:09
further and especially in a tournament setting where you need to win or lose to determine who moves on you can't have a
01:03:17
tie these games can go Extra Innings well you also have people traveling from out of town that's why it's saying
01:03:23
they'll push things back and maybe not use their best judgment because I look I just don't think it's safe to have that
01:03:32
many kids and and though that many unknown people in this park you know started in a game at
01:03:40
almost 10 o'clock so I've always wondered about Morgan's case one simple thing that we don't have anyone that saw
01:03:49
her snatched and grabbed and taken away we didn't have anybody hear a scream or yell there's no buddy that witnessed an
01:03:58
altercation between a little girl and creep man right so you have to wonder two things is it possible that she went
01:04:06
willing with this individual it could be that she thought she knew him she knew him he offered money or a reason to get
01:04:14
into the vehicle and she just went quietly and willingly right or did he actually have to grab her and abduct her
01:04:22
and take her away and it was just missed because all the eyes are on the baseball
01:04:26
game and there's a hearing going loss and there's noise and you don't you don't hear a little girls yell or scream
01:04:34
seventy five yards away because everybody next to yous yelling and screaming it's just one of those tricky
01:04:40
things where I could keep going back to what the sheriff has said time and time again in this case the it's such a
01:04:47
simple case and that's what has made it such a difficult case to investigate she's there one minute and then she's
01:04:54
not there right and we don't know what information we can trust from some of the witnesses especially when it's
01:05:01
compared to these other abductions the one one of those abductions that may have contributed to the description of
01:05:08
this man this is not verified by police I couldn't find a statement them confirming this but what the statement
01:05:16
was from the article that I was reading was that they were putting forth the idea that one of those abductions was
01:05:22
actually a custody dispute and that later that's what was that's what prompted police to change the composite
01:05:32
sketch of what they later release saying this is from actual witnesses from the abduction or from that night at the ball
01:05:39
park because then they later find out oh the man that tried to take one of these
01:05:45
little girls in one of these situations it a custody dispute that's why I wonder if
01:05:50
the the vehicle description that is so detailed if it may have come from someone that knew that man or saw that
01:05:58
vehicle up close and personal or saw it for a longer period of time rather than what these children at the ballpark saw
01:06:04
yeah it it bothers me like like I said but if the FBI is look they have the best profilers they've done profiles on
01:06:16
individuals where they they say some of the craziest stuff you know like we think that the perpetrators favorite
01:06:23
color is orange yeah where he might have a disfigurement or a speech impediment or he's you know there's all kinds of
01:06:31
things that are interesting yeah but when they're correct and and it's like this very tiny detail of how the hell
01:06:38
did they know that how the hell could they profile for that detail mm-hmm and so for them to say well look we got no
01:06:46
shoes we got no shirt or we're thinking this guy is a local guy again I don't know the ball parked that well so the
01:06:54
ballpark from my understanding is now a parking lot I was trying to look up the ball park even if I couldn't find
01:07:00
pictures from 95 if I could find something closer to today I get it out find anything yeah to get an idea of the
01:07:07
layout and the size I really wanted to know the size of it and what was in the immediate area because some of the ball
01:07:13
fields that we played at growing up some of them were very small containing one one not one diamond one diamond and
01:07:20
maybe two others contained twelve he didn't play a lot of baseball I was kept wanting to call it a field court as a
01:07:27
court court I was more of a field guy no cuz yeah cuz some places you know when traveling for music and stuff like that
01:07:35
I'd see these one diamond in the middle of town and there was a couple parking spots around it it's almost like people
01:07:43
just parked at their houses and walked to the diamond and then there's a lot of other places that have multiple diamonds
01:07:51
and so you just wonder again because we don't have that information on hand it's
01:07:57
hard to get a perspective but again I just don't see look I'm no FBI profiler most the time
01:08:06
I'm a giant idiot but I just don't see that it's that hard for people to think if this individual stopped and parked
01:08:15
there to stay I'm with you the camper that makes sense that why wouldn't they just throw on some sandals and you know
01:08:24
I just can't I just woke up from a nap and I have no shirt on him I got this hairy man chest and I'm gonna show it
01:08:32
off the one little peacock in the wannabe profiler in me tells me that this ball field the ballpark whatever
01:08:40
you want to call it is probably on the smaller scale because if the games did in fact get pushed back to the point of
01:08:47
two and a half hours to three hours delay right if they had multiple diamonds you could easily move those
01:08:54
games to an open diamond right you see what I mean rather than rather than just making everybody laughs out there for an
01:09:02
extra three hour but hold on I played a lot of softball tournaments and sometimes what happens it's somebody
01:09:08
that got into the loser bracket and they just kept winning and then it became a situation where it's like well we think
01:09:17
that this team you know you have to lose two games and you're out well the team with one loss ends up destroying a bunch
01:09:25
of teams getting and facing the team that only has that has no losses and they have to beat them twice in a row so
01:09:32
that might be a reason why somebody got pushed back so far but I also questioned
01:09:38
how again I people from this town will know and and hopefully we can get some conversation on the blog about these
01:09:48
diamonds and how many were they and how how were they connected to the rest of the town and where they buy a lot of
01:09:57
residency's I'd like to know that because I think that could give us a better outlook on this case the other
01:10:05
thing too that you have to question is the profilers or the FBI agents that work this case early on they unlike us
01:10:15
would know exactly what the children said their conversation was with this man the information that they've been
01:10:23
holding on to yeah because again there could be something very simple in that conversation of oh
01:10:30
yeah that's that's my truck well the profilers are the ones saying that they think it's unlikely now I
01:10:37
questioned a lot of this stuff because we don't have actual agents names to apply and to attach to these statements
01:10:44
of we believe that the man that spoke to the children the shirtless man is an unlikely suspect but one thing that
01:10:53
comes out in some of these articles captain is that this was leaked this is not confirmed but it was that the man
01:11:01
came up to the children and yelled at them because they were breaking bottles and he was concerned about broken glass
01:11:07
in the area and in the parking lot right if in fact this is true that's where you
01:11:13
have the FBI agents going okay he he has a reason he has a purpose to speak to these children because of their actions
01:11:19
rather than something he's trying to do therefore we don't think he is a likely suspect there's a chance that the man
01:11:26
just doesn't recall speaking to children that night or spoke to many children that night what I what I do call in a
01:11:34
question is why has this man not come forward just like you pointed out earlier with the very detailed
01:11:40
description of that truck if you saw that description of that truck or heard it immediately and that's your truck you
01:11:46
know that's your truck you it's not there's no question about it right yeah well no and they a camper
01:11:52
also somewhat makes some sense as far as like travel baseball goes is because you'd be playing this tournament and you
01:11:59
would you know one of my neighbors has a big camper and they got the big camper to start going to their grandkids
01:12:07
sporting events and they just thought what a great way to go and it'll give the family a place that they could hang
01:12:14
out and during during their off times so it makes sense for a lot of the people that were possibly at the ball diamond
01:12:21
that night to have something like that there is a statement that I found captain that does offer some hope for
01:12:28
this invest Gatien and that comes from Chief Russell white he is the Alma PD police chief
01:12:35
back in 2015 he acknowledged that they have a quote lead suspect in the case but not enough evidence to make an
01:12:45
arrest right which that is very hopeful and again but maybe we can create some kind
01:12:52
of conversation some dialogue as far as the blog goes good a true-crime garage comm if you have any information about
01:12:59
this case even if you think it's very small put it out there there's a lot of intelligent people that visit the
01:13:06
blogging and put out information and some theories not-not-not that we always agree with them but we I like actually
01:13:16
posting the ones that I don't agree with because I think it's a different viewpoint out there like I said I think
01:13:21
we can create some dialogue hopefully that helps maybe even create a new lead or a new angle that they could go after
01:13:29
this suspect with after receiving more and more invitations to speak at schools and churches
01:13:37
Colleen Nick formed the Morgan Nick foundation which is a non-profit headquartered in Alma Colleen said in an
01:13:45
interview quote we still don't know where she is or what happened to her and we absolutely intend to know that our
01:13:52
message to Morgan if she ever hears or sees or reads anything about her own case is that we are coming for you
01:14:01
and we are coming with an army of people who have been fighting for you the Morgan Nick foundation offers support to
01:14:08
families of the missing and acts as a liaison with police in the media members strive to educate teachers students and
01:14:17
communities about safety skills and preventative measures they can take to ward off possible kidnappers the
01:14:25
foundation encourages legislation that protects the rights of children and enhances law enforcement ability to find
01:14:33
the missing and bring them home all right it's so good to be back in 2020 it's the year of the garage for all
01:14:54
of our old episodes check us out on the stitcher app and also check out our bonus episodes called off the record on
01:15:02
the stitcher premium until next week be good be kind and don't let [Music] [Applause]
01:15:24
[Music]