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n [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you were doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who is helping you to learn how to survive when
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law gets Lawless here is the captain punch him right in the nuts it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for
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listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] this week we are very happy to be featuring do Eis logger Especial dosaki
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logger Especial is a golden pilsner style beer made from spring water and the choicest of hops with a balanced
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composition and a smooth clean finish garage grade three and 3/4 bottle caps out of five and let's do some shout outs
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to some of our friends who are aeal first up we have Mali hawk in Polo Illinois the old haak Tua and last but
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certainly not least we have Catherine Buchanan up in Victoria British Colombia Canada everyone we just mentioned they
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subscription and Colonel that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer
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let's talk some true cry [Music] [Music] in the fall of 1992 the State of Arizona
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had a problem 120 M apart two women were snatched abducted murdered and dismembered while police say there is no
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evidence telling them that there is a direct Connection in the two cases to the public it didn't matter
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women were afraid and rightfully so the first case was on October 24th when the severed arms of Diana Vari were
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found in a dumpster near downtown Tucson vakari a 19-year-old college student was last seen wearing a purple
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blouse faded jeans and purple shoes just 16 days later on November 9th the decapitated and ounded body of Angela
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braso was found in a vacant field in Northwest Phoenix braso a 22-year-old trainer at a
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Communications company was riding her purple bike when she disappeared the night before her body was
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found the bike was not recovered but her head was 11 days later 1 and 1/2 miles away
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found in canal in Phoenix Arizona this is true crime [Music] garage today we go out to the great
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state of Arizona and fortunately as you heard in the trailer we have some particularly gruesome and horrific
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crimes to discuss Us in this week's True Crime Story the first is that of 19-year-old Diana Vari she was at the
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Tucson Community Center at about midnight on Thursday October 22nd 1992 her car was found abandoned near the
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laosa street the following Monday due to traffic parked cars and statements from
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residents in the area it was quickly determined by police that vicari's car had been parked in that spot since early
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Friday morning okay so she goes missing last seen around midnight on that Thursday October 22nd her vehicle is
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found on Monday morning but they're able to kind of backtrack that and figure out
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that the vehicle had been there since early Friday morning so shortly after she is last scene Diana Vari was missing
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at the time so was her car so police are out looking for both on Saturday in the
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meantime so this is during the weekend in the meantime on Saturday October 24th two severed arms were found wrapped in
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plastic bags in a dumpster this is near downtown Tucson and not terribly far from where she was last seen it would
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take some time but police would later confirm that the arms were that of the missing 19-year-old college student
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Diana Vari this location of where her vehicle was found would quickly become of interest to police obviously because
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that same very night the last night that she was seen there was a rather large house party there in the area we have a
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witness captain that comes forward trying to help out police this is an acquaintance of the victim his name is
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Troy Olen Troy tells police that on the night of October 22nd the night that vicari was last seen he had actually
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spoke with her Troy Olsen worked as a bartender at the New Orleans nightclub and bar this is located in Tucson he
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said that vicari was with some guy that he didn't know vicari mentioned a party that night to Troy and said that Troy
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should meet her there so vicari wrote down the address of this house party gave it to her friend and then she left
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the New Orleans Club Troy Olen said that he had not seen Diana Vari since so police find her car in the vicinity of
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that party her arms were found in a dumpster in Tucson they were able to determine a couple of things based on
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the recovery of the arms evidence indicated the arms had been severed from the body after death the medical
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examiner determined that two different instruments were used to to sever the arms and what the me referred to as a
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heavy knife was used for the bones and a sharp serated knife was used for cutting
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the flesh so this is not part of an attack this is a cleanup and conceal project by whoever killed her the
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medical examiner was able to determine that the victim had in fact been killed and dismembered but the rest of the
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remains have never been found then we go to approximately 120 mil away but only 16 days later this is only 16
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days after the gruesome discovery of the arms in the dumpster in Tucson this is when the body of Angelo
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Brasso 22 age 22 was found in a vacant field near her home in Northwest Phoenix she had been stabbed in the back
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decapitated and dis about authorities speculated that it appeared as if the killer had attempted to cut her in half
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the body also showing evidence the killer likely tried to skin the victim 11 days after the body was recovered and
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found her head which had been severed cleanly below the chin was found in a canal in the Phoenix area and as said in
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the trailer Angela's purple bike was not located in fact this case is from 1992 that bike has never been found to this
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very day anytime law enforcement finds a victim with severed body parts and within a short time period again we have
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a distance here but short time period you would think that law enforcement is going to try to connect these cases on
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on some level yeah well and with the that's exactly right captain and these cases as said are about 120 mil apart
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that is a significant distance the distance alone is suggestive that these murders are not connected the
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dismemberment is different it's very different and the dismemberment might indicate and be suggestive that the
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cases are in fact connected because it's such a rare thing that somebody goes to
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these lengths to dispose of a body afterward and we get the opportunity here to hear some of the thoughts and
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remarks about these two cases from some experts so first we have Captain Michael
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Ulin of the Tulsa Police Department in the early stages of the vicari homicide investigation the captain says not our
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captain the Tucson Police Department's captain says quote at this point there doesn't
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appear to be a tremendous amount of similarities in the two cases but he did say the police department is not
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discounting any possibilities now when asked if he thought that it could be possibly that vicari's murderer is a
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serial killer this answer doesn't make doesn't add any comfort to anyone's thoughts or fears at the time his answer
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says quote I think the person who did it will probably do it again end quote there's a certain level of piece of [ __ ]
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that becomes a murderer but there's another level to that piece of [ __ ] it's kind of like a spicy taco piece of [ __ ]
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that will dismember their victims shout out to the Tucson Citizen newspaper and the at the time assistant City editor
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Gabrielle fimbr uh they were smart enough to send the newspapers right up of each of these
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cases to a garage hero this is the late great Robert wrestler so the other expert opinion we're going to have here
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is one of the original mind Hunters the news media was really honing in on the idea of a serial killer working in the
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state of Arizona okay so we have to kind of remember everybody about the times here
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right this is 1992 and keep in mind that just the year prior the country saw two big things right the
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the release of the forever popular movie Silence of the Lambs in 1991 which had everybody talking in '92 you and I were
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little kids back then but however I I'm sure you can remember everybody talking about that movie and I remember talking
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about I had a full beard back in '92 I remember trying to figure out how the heck could I watch that movie right like
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I'm like I know I'm way too young to watch I know my parents would never allow me to watch something like that
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and I remember trying to strategize on how I could figure out how to watch that movie so Not only was that movie talked
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about because of how gruesome and it was like taking a slasher film but making it very real
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life making it incredibly realistic and then on top of that it wins the Oscar yeah movie of the year so and and
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several other Oscars as well so it was a incredibly popular movie to that's an understatement but then on top of that
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months later you have the discovery and the arrest of Jeffrey dmer oh Jeffrey and keep in mind this is 1992 when these
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two murders took place when the brosso and vicari murders take place this is the peak of power days of magazine sales
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newspaper sales were huge at the time and local news ratings were extremely important there was no streaming back
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then so the things that were selling the headlines that were selling papers and magazines and the images that were
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selling magazines and the the stories that were getting people to tune into the local news unfortunately were serial
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killer stories because it was on the mind the minds of the people of the nation so you have the newspapers here
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the local media from Tucson and from the Phoenix area trying to hone in on this idea of
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they're connected and that there there's a serial killer at work here so they reached out to Big Bad Bob wrestler to
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get his expert opinion and this is what he had to say so while Tucson and the Phoenix police are saying early on that
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there is no evidence that the cases are connected what the paper referred to as one nationally known expert on such
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crimes says he would take a strong look to see whether the two could be related wrestler said he has studied dozens and
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even hundreds of dismemberment murders while wrestler cautioned that he was speaking in general terms and was not
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very familiar with the Arizona cases he said the proximity in time and location of the slangs would cause him to
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investigate whether they could be related wrestler said Killers dismember their victims for different reasons some
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Killers chop up their victims to make it more difficult ult for police to discover that a murder has been
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committed quote it's easier to dispose of a body that has been dismembered end quote he also said police have a harder
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time identifying bodies that have been dismembered and they're also are killers who simply quote get a thrill out of the
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dismemberment some Killers leave dismembered bodies in locations where they are likely to be found to shock
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Society he said it's a feeling of power control and Authority my first thought when looking at this is not connected
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based on the locations two hours away but you have this dismemberment and that is not common but the scarier question
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is if they're not connected do we have two serial killers happening at the same time in a pretty pretty close proximity
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to each other well I like what you're saying there Captain like that was my reaction based off of initial research
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on each one of these two cases right like you have to have that conversation right the newspapers are right the the
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Tucson Police Captain is right by saying hey we don't have any evidence to suggest that they're connected but we're
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not ruling out that possibility we're not going to Discount that possibility wrestler he's being interviewed he's in
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Virginia at the time I believe and he's being interviewed from thousands a thousand miles away saying that you have
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to consider it and in large part you do because of dismemberment is such a rare thing and we'll get into some of that
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psychology here with wrestlers comments in a minute but to what you're saying I want to add to that because my feeling
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is these are not connected because of the type of dismemberment and I apologize for this being an extra
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gruesome and horrific episode but we're reporting the facts of these crimes and there's no way getting around it to me
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when I look at the vicari murder her severed arms are found in wrapped in plastic in a dumpster like somebody's
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trying to hide evidence that's like I said earlier that's a clean up and conceal job that's somebody who is while
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they're not above dismembering a victim they appear to be doing it for the purpose of hoping that the victim's
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never found you go to the braso case 16 days later 120 miles away she's found in
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a vacant field not far from a from a rather busy part of town yeah so the the first murder is like you're saying it's
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to cover up to conceal evidence and the arms are probably not the only part of the victim that was possibly spread
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throughout the the rest of the city but in the second victim it's like it's not to conceal because the body wasn't
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concealed yeah and you don't even have to take our word for it I mean listen to what wrestler we just take our word for
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it some of what wrestler just said and he's somebody who's reviewed hundreds of these dismemberment cases he's saying at
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one part he says quote it's easier to dispose of a body that has been dismembered and he also says that police
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have a hard time identifying bodies that have been dismembered so that seems to 100% apply to the vicari murder and then
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he he ends that question by saying and there are some Killers who simply get a thrill out of the dismemberment that to
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me describes the braso murder yeah to me this is Black Dalia thank you I'm glad you said that
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because that's where my mind went immediate like was somebody attempting to recreate the Black Dalia but but
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couldn't do it because they were they had to do it appears to me that everything that was done to that poor
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victim Angela braso was done out in the open was done in or around where she was
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found because and we'll get into her timeline a little bit later but the the thing with her case is she very likely
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was abducted attacked and murdered all within a very small area and and very likely all of this took place outside
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with the vicari case we have no indication at all of where the dismemberment or any of that took place
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so it goes back to what I was saying or the question I was posing if these aren't connected then do we have two
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serial killers cuz to me these don't seem like firsttime murders the this seems like uh escalation I would think
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that it would be too hard to to make that come to that conclusion in in the investigation of either of these cases
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but I would think that th those are suspicions that you have to have looking at at both of these and and I yeah I
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would say that anybody look anybody capable of murder is capable of murder again if you tell me that they did these
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things to the bodies after the fact and we don't know how much of this trauma took place to braso before she was in
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fact dead which is a whole another scary sad thing to think about but yeah there's no way that you can't think of
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serial killers or serial offender with with this type of uh behavior and these type of actions that have been taken now
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wrestler goes on to say that dismemberment murders are usually stranger killings killings in which the
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victim did not know the killer he goes on to add in studying the cases it is crucial to know whether the murder
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scenes or scenes where the bodies were dumped are organized or not he says a killer who leaves a disorganized crime
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scene or a a scene that is left in disarray is more likely to be psychotic but cases like the one in Phoenix where
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the victim's clothing was piled next to the body are more organized in his opinion and he says if vicari's arms
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were meant to be found that could indicate that the killer that the killing was also organized he says it
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does not look like a psychotic person who is flipping out and doing these things that's interesting because he's
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saying that it's you would think that you'd have to be psychotic to dismember a body absolutely but I think it's what
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kind of monster are we dealing with here like are we dealing with with one who can organize plan and and form a
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strategy and carry it out right even somebody in a total frenzy and who's totally off the rails could have a plan
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the problem is they can't carry it out and what I think he's saying here and suggesting here that from what he's been
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able to see what the information that was sent to him in his review is in the vicari murder somebody very cold and
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callously and calculatedly tried to conceal this body so that shows some form of
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organization and then with this other case with the braso case it appears the same thing that the killer came prepared
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to the scene think of when we discuss all of those injuries and and everything that that we kind of we went through
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very quickly on purpose but when you think about that all of that stuff takes would take a good deal of time if the
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person that was attempting to perform those acts did not do it in a in a sort of matter OFA strategic way this is
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taking place out in the open this is this person could be spotted could be seen and un unfortunately that's not
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what happened they weren't seen doing any of this there was no eyewitness and not only that they were able to leave
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the scene themselves and not have put themselves under any suspicion yeah this guy's a real butt licker uh wrestler
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went on to say that it isn't unusual for serial killers to move from City to city
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and in cases when body parts are missing it is possible that they were disposed of as well and have not been found he
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also said the killer or Killers could have a morbid desire to keep a souvenir quote people who do these things are
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losers they've been through the system before and they are getting back at the system they are throwing out a challenge
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so there a profound quote at the end of the interview from one of the best who have ever done it Robert wrestler now
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like with most things our audience understands it's a numbers game you review the numbers and you play the
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percentages looking at some numbers here to find a dismemberment case in the City
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of Tucson there had been none in over a decade prior to the varkari case there was a case in 78 1978 they caught and
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convicted the guy who did it the last case to go unsolved prior to vicari's dismemberment murder was in
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1975 and that was a male victim and unfortunately that victim remains unidentified and obviously no
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try Greenlight for free greenlight.com garage [Music] all right we are back cheers mates tall
00:29:38
cans in the air cheers to you Colonel squatty cans in the air too these two horrific homicides are
00:29:46
they related or not well the the the good news for these investigations here looking at this from far away many years
00:29:55
later there are couple of OB obious points that I want to make do so now one these are larger cities right two
00:30:04
different investigative agencies both with a lot of resources so that's that's going to be good for your investigations
00:30:12
two it's 1992 so you have 90s technology to help you with physical evidence collected at the scenes physical
00:30:21
evidence from the victim's car in the viari case you're hoping to find something there and a better
00:30:28
understanding of forensics in general and the not so obvious good news is in both cases we have a suspect a suspect
00:30:37
for each case both right from Jump Street so while the media was busy hunting for a connection law enforcement
00:30:46
is working these cases as not connected and both working on a different suspect well sadly I think the media looks for
00:30:54
those connections because it makes a better story let's not not try to tear the media apart for doing so because you
00:31:03
know we we've said this dozens of times if you if if this is your first time listening to the garage warning we've
00:31:09
said this dozens of times John Walsh taught all of us in the early 80s that the best thing that you could do for any
00:31:16
of these victims is to keep the story alive and keep it in the media and if if making a connection and trying to create
00:31:24
a story that there's a serial killer working in Arizona if that gets people to put
00:31:31
their eyeballs on a story and put their earballs on a story and read a story and
00:31:36
watch a watch a news clip for for the evening news even better as long as people are paying attention that's good
00:31:45
so if that's if that's what the media is providing here then God bless them but I
00:31:50
think the scarier story is that it's not one killer that we have multiple serial
00:31:54
killers well and the scarier thing that you're getting at that we need to kind of underline here is if in fact these
00:32:03
two are budding serial killers or active serial killers that's the scary thing they're
00:32:10
both operating in large cities at the same time and that needs to put everybody on high alert especially
00:32:18
females nobody's safe hide your kids hide your wife hide your husbands too lock your doors for the vicari murder
00:32:27
they are looking for the man that was with Diana Vari that night that she went missing right that's obvious right we
00:32:34
have the the friend they have a description of this man but no name for this man the friend that saw the two of
00:32:41
them together at the bar when she invited the friend to the party we got to figure out who that dude is right
00:32:48
he's not come forward to say I was with her that night this is where I dropped her off or this is where I last saw her
00:32:54
the last reported sighting that we have of our victim is from her acquaintance friend bartender at that New Orleans
00:33:02
nightclub so we need to figure out who that dude is police were looking to figure out who that guy was well
00:33:09
potentially if she went to the party with that victim CU we know her car was found by that party then we'd have a lot
00:33:16
of other eyewitnesses that might not have a name but might have detailed descriptions of this individual with the
00:33:24
reporting the constant reporting that the last sighting of was at that nightclub that's indicative to me that
00:33:31
she never made it to that party but why was her car found by the party because you have a a cunning killer who decided
00:33:38
to place her vehicle there or maybe that was the abduction site maybe he rode with her to the to or followed her there
00:33:46
and she never made it indoors very interesting that that's either your abduction site or he was smart enough to
00:33:53
place her vehicle there knowing because in his presence in his presence if if the dude that she was with that night at
00:34:01
the bar was the killer in his presence she handed the address to the bartender and if he's going to go to the links to
00:34:09
cut her up and drive around town and put her in different dumpsters which is what
00:34:14
I think happened here yeah absolutely we shouldn't gloss over the fact that it was probably pretty easy for him to know
00:34:20
that that address and to to do something about it to put to put something there to he's clearly trying to cover up and
00:34:29
conceal the murder yeah I think that's a great point he's trying to conceal the murder but then he's also trying to
00:34:35
create a a separate narrative that maybe she did make it to that party whether or
00:34:40
not people remember seeing her now we have another location and now we have other individuals that we have to
00:34:46
question and if he's not at that party then he then doesn't become a suspect yeah and and police are looking for a
00:34:54
breadcrumb trail why not give them several false breadcrumb to follow yeah he seems very organized for the Angelo
00:35:01
braso case they were looking at Angela's boyfriend so let's go back to the night
00:35:06
on the braso case and examine the timeline shall we 22-year-old Angela braso worked in the tech industry at a
00:35:14
Communication Center she is a transplant she grew up in Pennsylvania I believe she spent some time in California and
00:35:22
then at the time of the Murder She was building a career in Phoenix Arizona she lived with her boyfriend Angela
00:35:30
regularly and some Reports say almost every night would go out for a solo bike ride it's Arizona so she preferred to
00:35:39
ride around sunset time when it's you know starting to cool off but it's not yet dark out so she can still see but
00:35:48
she would ride her bike in the same area because it's Scenic it's convenient and
00:35:54
it's near her home and this is what is referred to as the Arizona Canal or the Phoenix Canal so the canal which spills
00:36:03
from empty fields from more than 20 miles east it winds through old Scottsdale Arizona and Arcadia and then
00:36:13
past the builtmore resort it meanders through workingclass Sunny Slope which is a nearby Town skirts North Mountain
00:36:23
and then starts its final run Northwest so the the canal itself is man-made from
00:36:31
my understanding and it looks very man-made if anybody's seen pictures of this or seen it on TV even on a map the
00:36:38
canal winds through this busy metro area and at times it goes under bridges goes
00:36:46
under traffic and even even the interstate uh Interstate 17 so when she goes out riding and you'll see like this
00:36:54
area is popular for people walking walking their dogs and riding bikes a lot of bike riders out there but what's
00:37:02
cool and kind of creepy about this area especially if it were to be dark out like the cool part is that the path goes
00:37:09
it's a Concrete path on both sides of the canal it it makes it very convenient in an obvious location for people to
00:37:17
want to to walk or to ride their bikes so one could one could ride next to the canal make their trip turn around and
00:37:28
now you're riding on the other side of the canal if you want back or just simply turn around but the creepy part
00:37:34
to me would be if it's dark out we talked about the canal going under traffic so at some parts the bike rider
00:37:44
braso Angela braso would there's like these little tunnels right that that still stay alongside of the canal but
00:37:52
now you can't see the canal you can't see the traffic you can't see the sky you're down in this tunnel so that you
00:37:58
can go underneath a major road or th and she's riding through these tunnels she's
00:38:03
riding through these tunnels but keep in mind they're just they're intermittent right there's you you're riding along
00:38:08
the scenic area next to this canal and then you have to go into this tunnel briefly and then you're back out you
00:38:14
know what I say to that not today Satan not today but let's not fault our victim
00:38:20
here because there's hundreds of people that do this no no I'm not faulting her I'm just saying I'm a I'm kind of a puss
00:38:26
I'm not I'm not going through tunnels well keep in mind that's why her friends and family are telling police she'd like
00:38:35
to ride at Sunset because it's not dark out yet she can still see and but it's also not 110 degrees with the sun
00:38:44
beating down on you this is part of her regular routine and this is where somebody abducted her from well like you
00:38:51
said wrestler was saying it's most likely because of the dismemberment a stranger on Stranger crime but in this
00:39:01
case it's with the the braso case it's because of her bike ride you would go well who who knows about this routine
00:39:12
people close to her so is it possible that the suspect is somebody that knows her and knows her routine oh yeah as an
00:39:20
investigator you're not just taking wrestler's word for it and eliminating everybody that knows her
00:39:27
wouldn't be doing a great job would they oh well we've seen some bad jobs conducted I I'm here to tell you I don't
00:39:33
think a bad job was conducted here in in this case at all or in the Vari case either now so on the evening of no
00:39:41
November 8th she goes out on a bike ride her bike ride as usual I believe this was a Sunday so she does not come home
00:39:49
she's we know that later she's found dead the next day the bicycle has never been found mhm but in the meantime the
00:39:56
boyfriend who lives with her says that he's at home when she went out he says he's at
00:40:03
home baking a cake the two were going to be celebrating I believe it was her birthday that they were going to be
00:40:08
celebrating that night and some reports state that the couple had plan to watch television together that evening but
00:40:14
when Angela didn't return her boyfriend he got worried got concerned he grabbed his bike according to his statements to
00:40:21
police he grabbed his bike and then he went out looking for her well not just TV they were going to watch HBO which
00:40:27
which is premium content and he searched in his in his words for an extended period of time and in fact he says
00:40:36
several hours to no avail and then he notified the police okay so she's found the next day in that vacant field and
00:40:44
from my understanding Captain it wouldn't have been too hard to spot her there so that's going to be a red flag
00:40:49
for police when when you're told by this guy he he knows where she rides he hopped on his bike and and went out
00:40:55
looking for her for several hours never discovered her okay so that's going to be concerning for you if you're an
00:41:02
investigator but we should focus in on the timeline if she is in fact riding at sunset during Twilight and it's going to
00:41:10
be dark soon one could surmise that by the time he's out looking for her it is in fact dark she's not found on the bike
00:41:19
path or directly near the bike pass she's found in this vacant field that he just simply was looking for her and and
00:41:27
as said did not find her the other problem though becomes his Alibi is that he was out looking for her for
00:41:35
hours you're not going to have anybody to cooperate that alibi right right and so he could have been doing the right
00:41:43
thing and not guilty of anything at all but The Alibi isn't solid either if you're an investigator and then then
00:41:53
this comes into play it just it it seems too vicious of a crime time for somebody
00:41:58
that's into Bak Goods the police say that the boyfriend became a suspect after telling the detectives that the
00:42:05
relationship was great and then they talked to some of Angela's friends and they told a different story right now I
00:42:13
want to be clear here because of we we need to make sure we are accurate on the details none of the
00:42:22
friends were saying that this guy was terrible that he was abusive or anything like that keep in mind Angela braso was
00:42:29
22 years old anybody that's been in a relationship in their early 20s look there there sometimes you're
00:42:36
just with the per you live together and you discover maybe this is not the guy or girl for me yeah right like maybe we
00:42:44
don't have as much in common or maybe we don't have the same interest or maybe we
00:42:48
don't have the same goals for our life or family life and it takes to living together to learn and understand
00:42:57
yeah not all boyfriends are going to be Ryan goling well and while he says the relationship is great it may have been
00:43:04
great it may have been great for him maybe maybe Angela was bored or maybe she just she's 22 she's young you know
00:43:12
so she she had told some friends that she was considering ending the the relationship at some point so this makes
00:43:21
police Wonder did the boyfriend in fact do something when you're hearing two sides of the story the question then
00:43:28
becomes is he telling us a fib right that that's where it goes to me if if if he's if he's telling a a fib or and
00:43:38
that's what you have to get to the bottom of I think when you're doing this investigation is he telling us a story
00:43:44
is he just telling us what he thinks we want to hear or is this what he actually
00:43:50
belied what was going down in the relationship and the other thing we we should point out here too and this is
00:43:56
from the Phoenix Police Department statements they they said that at no time was he not Cooperative with the
00:44:05
investigation that he he cooperated with police he anytime that they asked to interview him anytime they asked to
00:44:12
search the apartment where where they lived he always he always followed through and allowed them to do that he
00:44:19
always sat down and discussed anything with them so not not major red flags but you have you you have to form a pull and
00:44:28
that's naturally where it's going to start well and again the guy could be cooperating with you but if he's telling
00:44:34
you the truth his truth still might not line up or it might not give not might line up with what like his his truth
00:44:45
that he's telling you for example when he says when they go well where were you well I was out looking for her so that
00:44:52
could be the truth but there is no way to back up that story so as far as law enforcement goes you go
00:45:00
Alibi doesn't have one yeah yeah of course that's all I'm saying that's something we talked about but the the
00:45:07
the thing that that you I I believe you trying to get to earlier and this was an
00:45:12
item of concern for me a major item of concern for me here yeah would be the victim's head okay and I'm sorry there's
00:45:20
no nice way to talk about this stuff but the victim's head was found some reports
00:45:25
State 10 days later after body was recovered most say 11 so we're going to say 11 because it's like 90% of the
00:45:32
reports say 11 days later the victim's head was found and all reports say that the the victim's
00:45:40
head was found in the canal okay we say it all the time water is the killer of evidence time is the killer of evidence
00:45:48
do you want to know what everyone was saying when this item was recovered that there is no way that this
00:45:56
had been in the water for 11 days no way that this is what everybody was saying I'm just I'm relaying it so now I know
00:46:05
that perverse and psychotic comes in all sorts of different kinds of packaging but from a homicidal psychology
00:46:14
perspective here the boyfriend the husband when they are the killer rarely rarely rarely I can't I have a hard time
00:46:25
of thinking of one case at all where they keep the victim's head where they keep the victim's head that is what I
00:46:33
think happened here with this I think whoever did this kept the head as a souvenir yeah that is why it did not
00:46:40
look like it had been in the water for all of that time because it wasn't someone kept it preserved it until
00:46:47
things either got too hot or it no longer served its purpose or they got too scared so to further
00:46:57
along that point this is from the Arizona Republic newspaper now keep in mind this case originated in 1992 that's
00:47:06
a long time ago so over the course of over three decades that this K this case has been in the news reporters have come
00:47:14
and gone one great reporter who was on the case back in the day reported this about the head this is
00:47:23
from William Herman a great reporter and it states 11 days later a man named Mark
00:47:30
quals spotted the rest of bro's remains in the canal near Metro Center quals 39 years old was known to live outdoors and
00:47:41
went by the nickname fisher king some suggested it had come from the Robin Williams movie shout out to Robin
00:47:49
Williams rest in peace but qus also successfully fished the canal he was a fisherman of this canal and this is very
00:48:00
bizarre this next part uh and it's actually just going to keep getting more bizarre great his mother this qu's guy
00:48:07
his mother told him that she believed that he would find the slain woman's head which in fact we know that he ended
00:48:16
up finding him oh God she told the reporter William Herman quote it was just a strong
00:48:23
feeling I had now keep in mind though the fisher king she she's reading about this case in the newspaper and the canal
00:48:33
is right there her son is out there from my understanding day and night fishing this canal so if if if somebody if you
00:48:42
were to make you know this is sort of a great prognostication here but also again playing the numbers he's out there
00:48:51
every day if anyone were going to find it he's got to be at the top of the list it sounds bizarre at first but he's
00:48:58
sitting there going I'm fishing every day in this canal if anybody's likely to find this item it's going to be me so
00:49:06
William Herman one of the number one top reporters on the story at the time in 1992 here is he this is his words from
00:49:16
talking to police and from talking to the fisher king who found it quote I was told her head was in too good of shape
00:49:23
to have been in the canal all of that time Herman said the killer either kept it in a refrigerator or an ice chest now
00:49:31
we have a pretty good portrait of a 11% madman he had two trophies a head and a bike and he put the head back
00:49:42
another profound statement there now the case was drawing attention from other parts of the
00:49:49
country as police searched for similar killings and then the bad news just continues to get worse in September of
00:50:00
1993 the discovery that seemed inevitable was made Melanie Bernice's body was found in the water and no one
00:50:09
could ignore the coincidence William Herman said one of the first questions he asked was whether
00:50:16
Melanie bernus was riding a bicycle before she was killed his sources said she had a bike a green SPC Hard Rock
00:50:25
sport and had been riding it along the canal it was not found at the scene a shiver went up my spine Herman
00:50:35
said now we had [Music] two so much more to get to in this case for everything True Crime Check out true
00:50:52
crime garage.com and while you're there sign up on our mailing list until tomorrow be good be kind and don't
00:51:00
litter [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]