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ashley.com for [Music] [Applause] details [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
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you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who if you
00:01:51
asked what his three favorite movies would be all of his answers would start with the same word and that word is
00:01:58
Rocky he is the captain yo I'm not Punchy I have what they call a relaxed brain it's good to be seen and good to
00:02:08
see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are drinking Imperial
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involves one of my favorite things Woodford Reserve this Oatmeal Stout is Barrel aged in Woodford Reserve bourbon
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barrels that's right somewhere Captain there is a guy listening to this at work and he is thinking oh my God how can I
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get out of here and get some oatmeal stout and some bourbon garage grade folks four out of five bottle caps and
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True Crime Garage on Twitter Instagram and Facebook and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather
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around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] that is [Music]
00:04:28
true [Music] in his best fact crime Edgar award nominated book legendary FBI profiler
00:04:46
Roy Hazelwood writes the impulsive offender is not an intelligent criminal he is apt to be dull-witted and foolish
00:04:57
and is least successful at evading identif ification and apprehension as the term impulsive suggests he lacks
00:05:05
discipline and self-control he makes poor decisions and carries out his crimes in an unplanned
00:05:13
and unsophisticated manner about the only thing that the impulsive and ritualistic offenders
00:05:20
share in common is an underlining need for power feelings of anger or a combination of the two
00:05:30
the impulsive offender lacks Clarity and definition and so do his fantasies actually what goes on in his
00:05:39
mind probably does not rise to the level of a fullscale fantasy whereas a ritualistic offender
00:05:47
might paint his mental pictures with patience intelligence close attention to detail and a texture from a richly hued
00:05:58
pet the impulsive offender deals in stick figures his imaginings are simple and crude more like fragmented thoughts than
00:06:09
well-defined scripts the victim appears to him in primitive terms female available and
00:06:21
vulnerable she may be a stranger his wife or a girlfriend he is not a discriminating
00:06:29
criminal women to him serve a single function they are disposable vessels for gratification this one-dimensional
00:06:39
attitude toward the opposite sex ties in with his view of his role in the crime a
00:06:45
perspective of entitlement I want to do it so I will some of the killers and crimes we
00:06:54
will discuss this week are very interesting examples of the impulsive offender described by Mr
00:07:01
Hazelwood three of the murders we will discuss are prime examples of just that and from the beginning to the end of the
00:07:10
attack show the recklessness that is so characteristic of the impulsive sex offender one who randomly selects his
00:07:19
targets with no concern for potential risk and then impulsively seizes the chance to sexually assault an available
00:07:28
victim taking no precautions to protect his [Music] identity is [Music] true Kimberly niece was born August 2nd
00:07:56
1961 and Cody wyom in she will have a little sister named Pamela the family moved out to popper Montana when Kim was
00:08:06
just 4 years old popler is a very very small City in Roosevelt County it is not just BFE it is BFE surrounded by much
00:08:17
more BFE at the time of our case and still to this very day the population of popler is less than 1,000 people oddly
00:08:28
named as the popper tree is a fast growing tree and the City of popler hasn't grown at all popler is on the
00:08:36
southern border of the fort peek Indian Reservation the start of our story takes
00:08:43
us back to 1979 and at the very start of the summer of 1979 Kimberly niece was just 17 years
00:08:51
old a pretty and smart girl coming of age in a small town at poer high school Kim was a three-year ational Honor
00:09:00
Society member she played basketball and she was on the track team she received a
00:09:06
scholarship her brains and hard work made getting good grades easy and so with it came that scholarship after
00:09:14
graduating high school Kim planned to spend the summer working on her father's farm and hanging out with friends a few
00:09:21
more times before leaving her little town in the fall Kim was off to the big city of over 33,000 residents in
00:09:29
Missoula Montana Kim was enrolled to attend Autumn classes at the University of Montana now on the evening of Friday
00:09:38
June 15th Kimberly niece went on a date to the drive-in movie theater in popper with her boyfriend his name is Greg
00:09:46
norgard they went in norgard's car and he took her home afterward sometime around midnight or 12:30 a.m. Greg was
00:09:55
21 years old and Kimberly was 177 they had been going out for a while they had been seeing each other for about a year
00:10:04
they say they were going steady for about 6 months but at this time things were not really working out well between
00:10:11
the two of them they had a disagreement which in Greg's opinion was there was no
00:10:17
really resolve to this disagreement this all stems from Greg confronting Kim about her having spent the previous
00:10:24
evening hanging out with some other guy until the we hours of the morning yeah that normally never goes over in a
00:10:31
relationship you never want to hear that do you Captain hey by the way I was spining last night with another guy and
00:10:38
we had so much fun we hung out till about I think she said it was like 4 in the morning yeah Kim did not hide this
00:10:44
from Greg she was pretty upfront about it they did have this disagreement but according to Greg they decided they were
00:10:50
going to go on their date anyway and during the date they didn't really discuss this matter too much you could
00:10:57
cut the tension with a knife well you probably could and I think maybe part of the reason for not
00:11:03
discussing the the disagreement too much is either you got to move past it at some point
00:11:09
or you're going to the movies maybe you're really into the movie and you just you know you don't want to talk too
00:11:15
much during the movie I'm not sure what movie they saw that night Captain I do know that the movie Hair which is a
00:11:23
disgusting name for anything was a big deal at the time which would absolutely be dread to watch at least you're at a
00:11:30
drive-in so you can drink beer in your car and then Captain you'll like this the movie Rocky 2 came out that very day
00:11:38
so not certain what they saw but that's probably what they saw that's what I would have seen yeah now there are some
00:11:45
good sources out there for this case and some questionable ones as well we know that with most of these cases that we
00:11:50
cover I really like the stuff posted on a website called montanans for justice that is a fantastic way to do a deep
00:11:59
dive into this case if you want to do that on your own then we have a friend of our little garage show Mr Barney
00:12:06
Doyle Doyle knows this case quite well in fact it's the subject matter of a great chapter in his book titled
00:12:12
Reckless speculation about murder and I was also able to dig up some pretty good
00:12:17
newspaper articles from the Big Sky State and also from Louisiana which will play a factor into this whole case and
00:12:26
you'll see why in a little bit so so according to Greg and there is a good deal to to back up most of his story
00:12:35
Greg says he dropped Kimberly off at home and then he went to the American Legion bar he says he told her he was
00:12:43
going to the bar she asked him if he was mad at her he says that he told her no he said he saw Kim's pickup truck this
00:12:53
is actually her father's pickup truck that she used quite a bit right parked in front of her house when he dropped
00:12:59
her off he said he did not walk her to the door shortly after Greg leaves Kim she gets in this truck and she went out
00:13:10
driving Kim was out cruising popper that night and was seen by multiple other teenagers who were doing the same thing
00:13:17
M according to at least two witnesses Kim was parked at the gas station sometime before 1:00 a.m. she was alone
00:13:25
in her father's pickup truck one of those Witnesses saw the same pickup truck traveling west on Highway 2 at
00:13:34
about 1:00 a.m. or a little after but couldn't tell how many people were in this truck at the time but they knew
00:13:42
that it was Kimberly's truck well again this is 1979 right good old 1979 so you get home
00:13:50
if it's pretty late after the movie you're not going to be calling your friends because they probably have
00:13:57
curfews back in the day you'd have a curfew you'd tell your friends don't call my house after 9: makes my parents
00:14:05
upset so 17 years old you're looking for something to do the only way to do that
00:14:12
is to get in your car drive around drive past your friend's house try to find out
00:14:17
where where people are hanging out for my understanding captain and you know again this is a very small
00:14:25
town that there were a couple things that that were going on at the time it seems
00:14:32
to me like a lot of kids were out well past whatever their curfew would be set by their parents or by the town if the
00:14:39
town even had a curfew for for juveniles I don't know they probably didn't at that time yeah and it also seemed to me
00:14:46
like the American Legion bar was really a go-to spot if you were an adult M and during the summertime when these seniors
00:14:55
or keep in mind even though Kim is is just 17 she's already graduated mhm and she's working for her father so she
00:15:04
doesn't have a whole lot of obligations and responsibilities until she goes off to
00:15:11
college so a lot of these kids it seems like while their parents were out at the
00:15:15
American Legion bar till the we hours of the morning they were borrowing their parents' vehicles and they would hang
00:15:21
out and find places to hang out outside and a lot of them would go to there were
00:15:27
a couple different clicks even though this was a small town small community but it sounds like one Community would
00:15:33
one one click would hang out at one gas station kind of park and talk and then figure out places to go right and then
00:15:40
the other click hung out at the other gas station yeah when I was in high school a bunch of people would hang out
00:15:46
at a car wash and it was like nobody's washing their car that was just like the Meetup spot it was the parking lot
00:15:53
between the big car wash and the bowling alley yeah and there was yeah there was
00:15:57
a group that hung out there I didn't really care for that group so that was not a spot for me well the yeah the
00:16:03
group would change though but but also you worked at a pizza place and that was a go-to spot to that was one of the
00:16:09
Hangouts you just drive by to see see if somebody was there but also this is 19 again
00:16:16
1979 uh I'm guessing depending on what their laws were they would have been similar to what we had in Ohio which
00:16:24
would would have meant that you didn't have to be 21 to get to a bar you could have been younger because they had 32
00:16:32
beer at the time the drinking age would have been about 18 I believe possibly yeah I I don't know I'm not very
00:16:40
familiar with Montana at all other than I know it's very big and it takes a long
00:16:45
time to drive from one side of it to the other now at about 4:15 a.m. two Tribal
00:16:52
Police Officers observed a truck parked by the train bridge at the popler River West of town just off of Highway 2
00:17:02
spoiler alert this is the truck that Kim was driving it was a popular spot for teenagers to park and hang out so the
00:17:11
officers didn't really think much of it at that time right when the truck was still there at 700 a.m. that morning the
00:17:20
officers drove down to investigate this was now weird stuff for them the officers discovered blood and
00:17:27
hair in side of the truck next to both the driver's side and the passenger side of the pickup there were what they
00:17:35
called scuffle marks or believed to be scuffle marks where the dirt was kicked up approximately 10 ft from the
00:17:42
passenger side of the truck was what appeared to be a blood spot and I've seen pictures of the old crime
00:17:48
scene and it looked to me like this is a fairly significant blood spot it the word spot doesn't do it justice this
00:17:57
this was a big a big marking you could see it from uh photos that were even taking at some decent distance away
00:18:05
we're not going to have a extended cab or even like a quad cab cuz those just weren't that popular back in
00:18:12
79 and this could have been a bench seat as well which would make it easier I think to attack an an individual inside
00:18:23
the truck yeah this was a a smaller cab for any kind of pickup and as you pointed out the pickup trucks we have
00:18:31
today quite big in size this was not that this was not of that manner at all now there were drag marks leading away
00:18:40
from the truck these marks led the officers to the edge of the bank of the river I want to point this out here
00:18:48
these drag marks were so significant that they were they were blatantly obvious to these officers and so much so
00:18:56
that they were able to follow them like a trail of breadcrumbs all the way from the truck to the river this was not a
00:19:04
quick little walk from the truck to the river this was quite some distance do we
00:19:08
know how far I do I do and we'll get to that I don't I don't have that just quite yet there at the the edge of the
00:19:14
river the officers saw a body floating face up in the shallow water about 10 ft from the Lower River Bank this was the
00:19:24
badly beaten body of 17-year-old Kimberly niece now as Doyle explains in his book he
00:19:32
says popler is a bit of a jurisdictional anomaly we already have officers from the Tribal Police Department on the
00:19:40
scene but poer as we mentioned is in Roosevelt County so the Roosevelt County Sheriff's Office can investigate as well
00:19:49
the fort peek reservation is federal land and the Bureau of Indian Affairs investigates most crimes on the
00:19:57
reservations but the Federal Bureau of Investigation usually assist on anything as serious as
00:20:04
a murder that's what we have here every one of those agencies got called in for the niece murder but when
00:20:13
they're all there Captain it seemed like nobody really knew exactly who was in charge whose case was this consequently
00:20:22
the scene got trampled evidence was contaminated now at the scene officer found that Kimberly's driver side door
00:20:30
was open but the passenger door was locked there were no keys in the truck the gear shift was in park the radio was
00:20:37
on there were three gouge marks in the ceiling with hair hanging out of them and gouge marks on the steering wheel as
00:20:46
well officers found a 3-ft crescent-shaped semicircle of blood approximately 9 to 10 ft from the rear
00:20:54
of the truck tire but there was no blood trail from the pth passenger side of the
00:20:59
vehicle there were small spots of blood all around the exterior of the pickup well those markings on the ceiling that
00:21:07
what's that term called where you have like a hammer and you and somebody strikes down and then as they pull back
00:21:15
yeah you got to pull back up yeah and that it seems like that's how those markings would happen inside that truck
00:21:21
again small cab of of the truck there was a sweater which belonged to Kim and her purse on
00:21:30
the ground beside the passenger door there was a partial palm print in Blood on the passenger side of the door if
00:21:39
you've heard anything about this case if we would have titled this Kimberly niece
00:21:45
we'd have a whole different audience chiming in and and listening in for for this case this has been a very popular
00:21:54
case in that neck of the woods for a long time and this palm print has been the topic of much debate ever since this
00:22:01
murder took place so let's dive into this single piece of evidence this palm print often referred to as the
00:22:09
unidentified palm print is as famous as this case is I mean you can talk you can't talk about the murder
00:22:16
investigation of Kim n without discussing this palm print so with the FBI's help they worked very diligently
00:22:25
to identify the finger and palm print PRS found inside the truck cab and on the outside of the truck as well after
00:22:34
getting prints from the niece family there were four members in this family they were able to identify both finger
00:22:40
and palm prints found on the vehicle this is with the exception of two palm prints not one but two so it looks to me
00:22:51
Captain from the court documentation that I was able to find that these two palm prints they do not match each other
00:22:58
other and neither have been matched to anyone all of this time even 40 years later and and doesn't match her
00:23:07
boyfriend correct but even if it matched the boyfriend we could you you can kind
00:23:13
of we don't know when those Palm PRS were put there well they're in blood okay so okay so it's either during the
00:23:22
the course of killing this poor young woman or immediately afterward right when the while the blood is still wet
00:23:29
and then did we get the identification of who she was hanging out the night before before she went to the movies
00:23:36
with her boyfriend we have that information we have that and it comes from from the boyfriend and and we'll
00:23:42
see that in a bit but I wanted to make sure that we pointed out here that palm print doesn't match him as well it does
00:23:48
not match him and he was a suspect he was somebody that was looked at really good in this case and I wanted to point
00:23:54
out that we have two identif unidentified palm prints not just one you know the surface story tells you one
00:24:01
there's actually two and the other thing though I want to point out here too I don't think this paw print just because
00:24:08
it went it went unmatched to anybody potentially linked to this crime I don't think it actually clears anybody in my
00:24:15
opinion because as said right there's no nice way of saying it the blood was still wet it might not be very accurate
00:24:24
it may not have dried just as it was placed right on the truck and because it's distorted I'm sorry distorted it
00:24:32
may not match anyone now from the truck to the riverbed you had asked about this
00:24:37
Captain it was about 250 ft that's not that's not anywhere close and every bit of evidence we have suggests that every
00:24:47
bit of the attack took place up by the truck and how much did she weigh well she was a smaller person I believe she
00:24:55
was uh I would say about 100 to no more than 115 lbs okay that's not that heavy so you would
00:25:04
think individual if there's two individuals that's not really that hard to move a body even though it's 250 ft
00:25:13
but you have two individuals 115 lbs that's not a lot so uh the the the palm prints do you think that points to two
00:25:22
individuals or or one because again uh like you just said if there's Distortion in the print maybe
00:25:32
they're the same print but one is a little more distorted than the other the other thing that I wonder
00:25:39
about too is if the attack took place inside the truck and outside of the truck why did it go down that way did
00:25:48
she try to escape the truck or was she forced out of the truck either way one of the palm prints could belong to her
00:25:57
to the victim right and it's just distorted right and as you pointed out if they're distorted they could belong
00:26:03
to the same person to be honest with you I really don't know this this case is is
00:26:08
very interesting to me because there's a good deal of possibilities I believe when looking at this thing now as said
00:26:18
we got that distance from the truck to the riverbank 250 feet from there it was a steep 10- foot drop to the
00:26:26
river in addition to the drag marks investigators also found spots of blood and hair along that trail the drag Mark
00:26:34
Trail let's get into the autopsy Captain forensic pathologist Dr John faf conducted the autopsy because this case
00:26:43
has remained an ongoing story for so long some of the materials have found their way to the Public's reach I
00:26:51
reviewed the 22-page autopsy report put together by the good doctor on Columbus Hospital of Great Falls Montana
00:26:59
letterhead page one tells us a brief description of the injuries this poor young woman suffered there were multiple
00:27:07
blunt force impact injuries involving the head and neck these are extensive skull fractures with contusions and
00:27:15
lacerations to the brain multiple blunt force impact injuries involving the upper extremities mostly the hands so if
00:27:24
you're doing a little mental image in here what does that tell us these are defensive wounds so she was aware of the
00:27:33
attack she was attacked from the front and she's putting up her hands and arms attempting to defend
00:27:39
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a restaurant wall a legacy that lives on it all comes from the power of a conversation like the one Tommy Hall
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to you Captain we are back to the Doom and Gloom that is the true crime world so Kimberly suffered a brutal beating
00:30:13
death there were dozens of blows to the head with damage to the forehead and the
00:30:18
right and left sides of the head Kim was dead before she was placed in the water
00:30:23
and there was no evidence of a sexual assault the pathologist determined that the injuries were caused by a weapon but
00:30:31
he could not initially determine what that weapon was he also noted that she was fully clothed when she was found
00:30:40
there was no evidence of her being choked violently during this attack and there are several pages of the autopsy
00:30:49
that are devoted to a hammer and crescent wrench diagrams so even though he could not
00:30:56
determine exactly what the weapon was it seems like he had a decent idea of what
00:31:02
it probably could have been the services for Kimberly were held on June 19th at the First Presbyterian Church in popper
00:31:11
Montana a dive team searched the river and discovered a discarded Hammer but the doctor examined this Hammer compared
00:31:20
it to the injuries and determined that the hammer was not used to kill Kimberly when the vehicle was returned
00:31:27
to her father he was asked to check for anything that might be missing from the truck Kimberly's father looked through a
00:31:35
toolbox in the back of the truck and determined that a 12-in metal crescent wrench was missing the doctor compared
00:31:43
that type of wrench to the injuries and determined that the wrench could have caused some but not all of Kimberly's
00:31:51
injury so now Captain we know that we have the use of at least two weapons in the commission of this homicide is that
00:31:59
what it really means though what that or does it just mean that the Crescent richen could be responsible for some but
00:32:08
that's just could yes that's what he says he says that the the crescent wrench could have caused some but not
00:32:14
all of the injuries to right what I'm saying is maybe there's a um instrument out there that would be able to cause
00:32:23
all of them that does not seem to be his findings I see what you're saying that that if they're saying this one doesn't
00:32:30
fit all of them right I I think what he's laying out for us here is that he believes at least two different types
00:32:37
different shapes of weapons were used during this attack yeah there's a lot of tools that have different
00:32:45
ends um and there's a lot of weapons there's a lot of a lot of things but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me if
00:32:51
you're hitting somebody with possibly a hammer or a crowbar or something like that that you would then stop remove
00:32:59
that that item and and then pick up a a wrench in the in in the truck usually that does not occur you're correct
00:33:08
usually somebody starts the job and finishes the job with the same weapon that's in their hand we also most of us
00:33:15
have two arms and two hands um you could be armed with two different types of weapons the thing with the crescent
00:33:23
wrench that we have to keep in mind remember the bottom portion of a crescent wrench
00:33:27
you can move it you can maneuver it up and down so that's going to have a significantly different shape than some
00:33:33
other types of tools out there especially if if it is in fact you have that point now from where the the bottom
00:33:42
portion of the I don't you're getting you're getting me talking about parts of tools that I don't don't know the the
00:33:49
terminology for so but in regards to the the evidence that was collected again we have several agencies
00:33:58
that were at the scene no one knew who was in charge the result of this was evidence stored in different locations
00:34:06
by different agencies and over the years some of this would become lost contaminated and in some cases there's
00:34:14
speculation of even maybe stolen or destroyed purposely destroyed evidence well think about this it's a very small
00:34:22
town right yes yes this is it was actually larger in population than that it is now that's never a good sign if
00:34:30
you're in a town that the population you're losing people every year something's going on but this is like
00:34:38
the Connecting Point like you said we have all these different uh departments working this case everybody probably
00:34:46
knows everybody if you are not even the suspect but you are the person responsible for this and you start
00:34:53
hearing that different departments have evidence evidence wouldn't that be a lot
00:34:59
easier to try to contaminate anything that they have yeah yeah if you have if it's
00:35:07
accessible to you yes the left hand wouldn't know what the right hand was doing you're exactly right the
00:35:13
investigators found and photographed numerous shoe Impressions at the scene but this was done again after several
00:35:21
law enforcement agencies were at the scene and moving about and looking and trying to find evidence and figure out
00:35:27
what was going on so it's easy to believe that most of these shoe Impressions I believe captain that they
00:35:35
probably belong to law enforcement we saw this with the Nicole Brown Simpson case where there was multiple shoe
00:35:42
prints and they had to then go back and figure out which Sho prints were law enforcement and which one were which
00:35:48
ones were media and which ones were unidentified mhm it's never been determined in this case what shoe prints
00:35:57
belong to whom uh or shoe Impressions whatever you want to call it belong to who so what we also have are items that
00:36:05
were collected other items that may or may not be even part of the case or crime at all you know these would be
00:36:14
your typical items standard stuff like beer cans trash cigarette butts and and different types of debris again this was
00:36:23
a hangout spot at that time for teenagers and young adults so probably a good deal of beer drinking went on down
00:36:32
there well we also have the truck to the river that's our whole scene that's 250
00:36:38
ft that's a quite a bit of an area to to have you know debris in that you're not
00:36:45
going to know what what matches the crime scene or not what I think is pretty neat in this situation is that
00:36:53
the evidence at the crime scene really does tell the story the evidence shows us how this murder took place we don't
00:37:01
know exactly why Kim was in that location near the popper river by the old train bridge did she drive there by
00:37:09
herself or with someone did she was she intending to meet someone there did someone take her there against her will
00:37:17
that part we don't know but we know that she was there her truck was there this was the location that Kim had been
00:37:24
to before she had been to this location before that night so she was familiar with this area and so more likely she
00:37:34
probably went there either with someone or was meeting someone in my mind maybe even a group of people plus she's a
00:37:42
teenager and many times okay if she's going to meet some people there we do we have we don't have any evidence of that
00:37:50
we don't have any friends coming forward and saying that she was supposed to meet
00:37:54
us there again we don't have phone records of that I I don't think that's something
00:38:01
that we should assume I think one of the things that we do have evidence of was she was at the gas station by herself
00:38:09
that we have multiple eyewitnesses that saw her driving around that night by herself mhm it it's very
00:38:19
possible if this is a local hangout that you get one or two guys that that go to
00:38:25
that area and again like I said before you remember how it was on a Friday night if you didn't make plans or you
00:38:34
didn't hear about the party you drove around in a car and you went from house to house you know well let's go to this
00:38:42
buddy's house and see what's going on and you you might like run into their parents oh well he said he was going
00:38:48
over to this guy's house so you're like okay we'll head there and then once you get there they're like oh well they
00:38:53
actually took off and went down you know what I mean so so I I just it seems like she got in this argument with her
00:39:02
boyfriend and then he was like well I'm going to go to the bar and she she wasn't okay with just staying at
00:39:10
home so it looks like she was going around trying to figure out what to do and it's very possible that she could
00:39:16
have came up to that spot just to see if anybody was there that she knew and then
00:39:23
ran into trouble well that's why I say I think she either went there with somebody or with the intention of
00:39:32
meeting somebody whether that was a plan to meet someone or just her hoping that
00:39:38
other people were there there right right and I say that because thinking back to my youth you know we didn't we
00:39:44
weren't able to text people and go hey what are you doing tonight hey what are you doing tonight no you if you got off
00:39:48
work I remember plenty of times if I got off work at 11 12:00 at night if it was
00:39:53
a Friday Saturday I had three three or four spots that I knew I could do uh it take me five
00:40:00
minutes to drive by all three or four of these spots and I might find a handful of my buddies chilling at one of these
00:40:05
spots I mean finster's garage comes to mind right I mean that was was my go-to that's where I hope to find people but
00:40:15
regardless the the other thing that I do want to point out too though the reason
00:40:19
why I believe that though Captain is because I don't think if someone abducted her or took control of her in
00:40:29
her vehicle and decided that they were they had murder in mind or rape in mind this doesn't seem to me like an
00:40:37
ideal spot to go to again it's a known hangout you don't take somebody that you're planning to do something like
00:40:45
that to to that spot yeah again I'm going to disagree because well you people people could already be there or
00:40:53
somebody could happen upon you during the commission of your ATT attack you you know the area it's a small area it's
00:40:59
it's a town of 800 people but what we're not privy to is how long did people hang out at this
00:41:08
spot was it you could drive 15 minutes in any direction and be out in the middle of nowhere from poer Montana
00:41:15
right I understand that but what I'm saying is like the car wash for example that people hung out it you weren't
00:41:22
going to see people there at 12:00 or 1:00 you know what I mean like you'd see people from maybe at 9 people would be
00:41:31
starting to hang out maybe you'd see some people by 11 you're you're forgetting the statements of the police
00:41:37
officers that said they saw the truck at 4:00 a.m. thought nothing of it cuz they
00:41:41
knew teenagers hung out there it's one car I I don't know I I I just I think it's not a bad spot you're
00:41:50
20 you know you're 250 feet from uh a great spot to dump a body well regardless the the river which is going
00:42:00
to wash away tons of evidence regardless of our our thoughts and feelings what we do know is that
00:42:07
some of the attack took place in the truck some of the attack took place outside of the truck she was hit many
00:42:14
times with at least two hard objects used as Weapons she was dragged down to the River's Edge this over 200 ft away
00:42:23
there is about 10 or so feet of a steep embankment to the actual water someone pushed her over and she rolled down this
00:42:33
embankment her killer or Killers then went down the embankment and pushed Kim they had to physically push her into the
00:42:41
water she was found face up and she had mud on her from the embankment the keys to the truck were
00:42:50
not located at the scene even though they were found uh even though they found her purse M the Mur Mur weapons
00:42:57
were not found so we have two palm prints that don't match that kind of points in the direction of killers
00:43:06
instead of killer possible multiple instruments used as weapons that points towards
00:43:15
killers and not killer the fact that it's 250 fet yes she's not that heavy but it'd be a lot easier to move her
00:43:25
with two individuals MH like you said there's a steep embankment there's a lot that that
00:43:32
points to again I even think the attack inside the truck and outside the truck makes
00:43:40
sense like I'm going to get in and you're going to go around to the other side because this is also in the middle
00:43:47
of nowhere you think depending on how she was attacked if she was fighting back she has a lot of defensive wounds
00:43:54
that there would be a possibility that she should be able to get out and run or or do something a lot harder to get away
00:44:01
from two individuals um there's just a lot that points to to two instead of one it does
00:44:10
where my mind goes to though is if you got two full-size males as the attackers I I don't I don't understand
00:44:20
why the the drag marks I think you'd be able to move her without without that that much of a a trail yeah yeah I agree
00:44:29
so let's go back to Kim's boyfriend Greg did he really drop her off as said well
00:44:34
yes we we know this for several reasons first Kim took her father's truck and drove it into town this is isn't out of
00:44:41
character we have more than one person who says they saw Kim sitting alone in the truck parked at the gas station
00:44:49
investigators learned right away about some troubles between Greg and Kim as we pointed out the two they they lived just
00:44:57
a couple of houses away from each other now late on that afternoon of June 15th Greg says that he saw Kim arriving home
00:45:06
he spoke with her and she looked tired this is where he becomes aware of her hanging out with this other guy he says
00:45:13
hey why do you look so tired she says well I was out driving around till 4:30 in the morning the previous night with
00:45:19
another guy his name is Steve shagan Greg was in his words this is his exact words a little pissed about this
00:45:29
but they were going to stick to their plan and go out on the date as well as said before the date Greg went to the
00:45:36
store to buy some beer and this this is where you start getting that whole small town story that whole
00:45:45
small town mix going on when he's at the store buying beer he sees Steve's girlfriend and Greg decides to inform
00:45:53
Steve's girlfriend her name is Susie karna about what went down what a dick oh I don't mind doing that at all I mean
00:46:03
just I just think it's funny that he saw her and he went yeah I'm going to ruin her night well he probably doesn't trust
00:46:11
the Steve guy and wants her to know what what Steve's been up to as well well I know and I understand and I know that
00:46:17
he's just trying to inform her but it's just like he just ruined her night well that be it as it may that's what
00:46:24
happened they went to the movie theater the drive-in theater this was around 8:30 after the movie he says they drove
00:46:32
around for a little bit and then he took her home dropping her off somewhere between midnight and 12:30
00:46:38
a.m. he said he was going to to the bar now multiple Witnesses all said they saw
00:46:45
and interacted with Greg when he was at the legion Club bar that night right these Witnesses include but are not
00:46:53
limited to several members of Greg's family and some of Greg's friends but also Kim's parents as well he sees them
00:47:02
there and talks with them he told investigators that he leaves this bar around 1:30 a.m. and drove around town a
00:47:09
few times looking to see if Kim was out driving so this on the surface to me seemed a little weird why would he just
00:47:18
drive around town looking to see if Kim was out driving even I thought it was even a little weird even knowing that
00:47:23
she was out driving the night before he says this is because he just saw her parents at the bar and they've known
00:47:31
each other for a long time he knows that when her parents are out late at night that Kim would go out late at night so
00:47:40
he drives by her house after driving around he doesn't see her drives by her house and confirms that she was in fact
00:47:48
gone by seeing the truck was gone at this time yeah I mean let's be honest he's he's trying to catch her in the ACT
00:47:57
if she's driving around with another guy he then goes to a pay phone and decides
00:48:02
to call Kim's house Kim's mother now home answered the phone and Greg asked if Kim was home at that time Kim's
00:48:11
mother said that she was not she asked if Greg would drive around and look for Kim at about 1:45 a.m. Greg called
00:48:20
Catherine Mo from the same pay phone according to Greg he called cther after speaking to Kim's mother he called
00:48:28
because he wanted Catherine to come out that night and he does say to the officers he's upfront about this partly
00:48:35
he wanted to make Kim jealous if he happened to see Kim out driving around with somebody else he was hoping she
00:48:42
would see him out driving with somebody gotcha that's what you would say haha two can play at this game according to
00:48:50
Catherine Greg spoke very casually and never really said why he called she said that he did not sound drunk and he
00:48:59
didn't mention anything about Kim n during the call but when questioned by police Catherine also added that Greg
00:49:07
had never called her before and the call was not expected in fact Greg told Catherine that he got her number from
00:49:15
information there are some reports out there that say these two that they dated in the
00:49:21
past I'm not clear where anybody gets that information or where that came from I'm not saying that it's not true I'm
00:49:28
just saying that in statements that Catherine Mo and her mother and her mother two statements given to police
00:49:36
both of them said that Greg had never called this girl before and we see how much activities going on on the phone
00:49:43
between all these different people and different families you would think if they did in fact actually date
00:49:48
previously that there would have been some kind of phone calls Greg says that he drove around
00:49:54
until approximately 24 5:00 a.m. or maybe 3:00 a.m. he then gave up and went home and he went directly to bed he does
00:50:02
say that he never went by the train bridge that night now remember Steve and his girlfriend yeah Susie Kar they were
00:50:12
out together the night of June 15 and they remembered seeing Greg and Kim together early that evening which makes
00:50:20
sense Steve says later he saw Kimberly alone in her truck parked at at the gas station around 12:30 or 1:00 a.m. he
00:50:29
also says that he saw Greg's Mustang parked at the legion Club at about 1:30 a.m. I go through all of that just to
00:50:38
point out that a big chunk of Greg's story is matching up with not only what he's telling police but with what other
00:50:46
Witnesses are separately individually telling the police in their statements right and and who's the information
00:50:52
coming from I think that's important because because there's no need for Kim's parents to Aid him there's no need
00:50:59
for Steve to Aid his story yeah if anything those are the two suspects right off the bat right well Kim Kim's
00:51:09
parents are the ones are are the victims you know they have they have more skin in the game than anybody when it comes
00:51:14
to nailing somebody for the murder of their daughter right but what I'm saying with with Steve he's going hey I I saw
00:51:20
his car right I you know so I have uh I believe there's a lot of weight to those um uh eyewitness accounts yeah so
00:51:32
then here's where things take a a turn Okay because really what we have very early on is police looking at Greg
00:51:40
norgard as their number one suspect he's the boyfriend he was out late Kim's out
00:51:46
late out late as well they knew that there was a disagreement between the two they're looking at Greg but officers
00:51:54
canvas the homes in the the vicinity of the train bridge looking for potential Witnesses well they find a woman named
00:52:01
Roberta Clincher she tells deputies that she did not hear anything unusual that morning
00:52:08
but her teenage son Barry Beach had returned home early that morning and he was covered in
00:52:16
blood oh my God never that's not good either not good Bob uh the beach family does they lived near Kim n's family to
00:52:27
be honest with you most of the people in this story lived quite close to one another Barry said that the blood came
00:52:33
from punching his car in frustration after it got stuck in the sand at a swimming hole i' say let me see your
00:52:43
knuckles well here's where the story starts to get wonky the the investigation the case and everything I
00:52:50
mean we already have a contaminated crime scene and missing evidence and scattered evidence really amongst
00:52:56
different jurisdictional custody let going to get willly wonky right later this woman denies saying any of this and
00:53:06
what we will learn is that the deputy that took the statement or or spoke with this woman as he claims did not write
00:53:13
down any kind of report about this claim he says that he notified the sheriff immediately about this
00:53:22
information um and then they took it from there mhm Barry Beach well he's even tied more closely
00:53:31
to the victim he dated Kimberly's younger sister Pam Beach was 17 years old at the time of Kim's death and lived
00:53:40
a few hundred yards away from the train bridge he moved to Louisiana to live with his father and his stepmother not
00:53:48
too long after Kim's death he was police did speak with him a couple times before
00:53:54
he moved away right the initial suspects as you can see are the boyfriend Gary norgard and now Barry Beach both were
00:54:03
interviewed several times both denied any involvement and investigators never found any direct evidence linking either
00:54:11
to the crime at this stage of the investigation well did they check out Barry Beach's card to see if there was
00:54:17
any dings or dents that he put in when he punched the car well his statement about punching the car is backed up by
00:54:25
two witnesses and the way that this story works is that he I think he had a Ford Rancho Ranchero I'm trying to think
00:54:34
of I I wasn't born when these vehicles were around but it let's go with Rancho cuz it's just better Rancho I think is
00:54:41
actually what it's probably what it is but Rancho is great which was kind of cool Captain because it's a like an El
00:54:47
Camino it's a it's a car in the front and truck in the back business in front party in the back no it's I think that's
00:54:56
a party in the front and the work in the back if if it's a El Camino but it sounds like something you'd buy at Taco
00:55:03
Bell at at 3:00 in the morning give me a couple Ranchos I'm going to pick up three on my
00:55:09
way home from the garage today he says that him and two friends this is another couple went to go swimming and this is
00:55:20
uh Beach and this is where his his story and it's backed up by these two friends
00:55:25
the interesting thing though is he's dating the younger sister at the time Pam he asked her to go swimming she does
00:55:34
not go swimming that day he Parks his vehicle and anybody that knows like an El Camino or any types of these vehicle
00:55:43
they're they're not super high up off of the ground they're kind of low to the ground he Parks it and he got it stuck
00:55:50
in the sand and he's a young dude he doesn't know any better he's trying to get it
00:55:55
out of the sand and instead of using his brain tries to muscle It Out by vro back
00:56:00
and forth back and forth back and forth right and he ends up blowing out the transmission trying to get it out of the
00:56:07
sand in aggravation he gets pissed he yells at his friends he punches the vehicle he kicks it um just really just
00:56:18
you know dumb teenage stuff that you're like oh why did I really bloody myself hurt my hand and and ding up my vehicle
00:56:25
out of out of just being something that I could fix later Barry beach sounds like Barry [ __ ] well interestingly
00:56:32
enough there was also a rumor going around town that a group of teenage girls killed Kimberly nie the
00:56:40
investigation went nowhere productive for about a year and a half that makes sense though too cuz even if there was
00:56:48
two killers mhm but they're both female mhm drag marks right the defensive wounds I I would like to
00:57:00
know and they probably know as far as like the autopsy goes but like how how deep some of these wounds were and they
00:57:09
could normally they could now they can maybe they couldn't back then but they could tell you the force of the trauma
00:57:16
the pressure the pounds per pressure or whatever they usually can do that when somebody's only struck a couple of times
00:57:22
the problem when you have repeated blows over and over again and I apologize for
00:57:27
having to say this but there's no nice way of saying it the more you hit something over and over again in the
00:57:31
same spot the more right deeper the impact becomes and she was as said in the autopsy report hit dozens of times
00:57:39
in the head the as as we were talking about Captain the investigation really goes
00:57:47
nowhere for about a year and a half and then in a very weird turn of events this
00:57:53
is in February of 19 1981 Kim's great uncle he's a former state senator Stanley niece he's
00:58:03
murdered Stanley niece was 77 at the time and he had a lady friend that was renting a room from him the way that
00:58:13
this goes down is investigators found the bodies of three people at niece's home it was Stanley niece it was the
00:58:22
woman renting the room from him and her friend it appeared that the three were shot in the basement of the home while
00:58:32
watching TV and baking cookies this is a small town as we've pointed out time and
00:58:38
time again murder is not a common thing in this town at all right and the sheriff frustrated that they have no
00:58:47
answers in the Kim n case now her great uncle former state senator is killed he says to the paper
00:58:55
you know he's asked is there any chance that these crimes are related and he said look we don't have any information
00:59:02
or or evidence at this time mind you this is the day that they find the bodies that these two events are
00:59:10
connected but he says I hope that they are that might give us some type of lead in the kimn case that has now gone cold
00:59:21
yeah something that they're missing from the first case that only makes sense by connecting the murders right the
00:59:29
three of these victims were killed on February 25th this was determined by scientific evidence found at the crime
00:59:38
scene the bodies were not found until the following day on the 26th of February but it gets even weirder
00:59:46
Captain because in March in early March we have an arrest that is made in this case case of the three individuals
00:59:56
killed in the basement what they did was they linked the bullet casings and bullets that were
01:00:03
used to kill these three victims to spent shell casings that were found in the possession of an individual this
01:00:12
individual lived next door to Stanley nice they determined that these bullets were all fired from the same gun the
01:00:21
same gun that killed these three people at some point was in the possession of this person now this person who is he
01:00:30
well oddly enough his name is William norgard he's 26 years old at the time next door neighbor to Stanley niece
01:00:40
Kim's great uncle and he's the older brother of Kim's one-time boyfriend Greg norgard the strange thing about this as
01:00:52
much as you want to look into it and and go this has got to be connected these two things have all got to be connected
01:01:00
in somehow and some manner it actually appears that they may not have been unfortunately William norgard was a
01:01:09
very he had a he had a lot of problems and he struggled through a lot of issues for a long long time he spent the
01:01:17
majority of his life in and out of hospitals for being treated for physical ailments as well as psychiatric
01:01:26
treatment he was quite unstable and he there's some discrepancy either he was on new meds at the time or off of his
01:01:36
meds at the time of these of this triple homicide but what happened was we know that he was home there was something
01:01:44
going on with his medication at the time and he had developed this weird obsession with Stanley nice and the the
01:01:53
financial situ situation of his parents and it's believed that he thought or held Stanley ni somewhat
01:02:01
accountable for the financial problems that his parents were experiencing and decided to attack the
01:02:08
old man and gun down him as well as these two people as well we have William norgard who's sentenced to 300 years in
01:02:17
prison they have in Montana at the time anyway what is referred to as dangerous offender status and they gave that to
01:02:26
this young man who really was I've reviewed this pretty well because I thought there had to be some
01:02:33
kind of connection I even wondered if maybe if if William norgard was involved or responsible for the killing of
01:02:40
Kimberly niece but this this kid was I say kid he was 26 when he was convicted I'm talking
01:02:48
years and years of treatment documentation to show that he was treated for this for 12 13 years prior
01:02:57
to these homicides and unfortunately he very likely in my opinion should not have
01:03:04
been sentenced to prison for this he may not even understand what it is that he did or understand right from wrong and
01:03:12
this young man took his own life while he was in prison this was in December of [Music]
01:03:23
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