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[Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:44
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that sometimes has NyQuil for dinner he is
00:01:50
the captain it's the original purple drink it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks
00:01:56
for telling a friend [Music] this week we are drinking heart of loean by dropin Brewing Company in Middlebury
00:02:08
Vermont garage grade 4 and 1/2 bottle caps out of five this is a Scottish ale crafted to resemble a 90 Shilling ale of
00:02:17
Scotland in the 1920s it is a delicious medium bodied ale dark brown in color and finishes dry when you have a pint of
00:02:25
this bad boy you will follow it up with another and today's beer was brought to was by these bad boys and girls first up
00:02:32
we have Chandler Alex and Bryce from Covington Georgia and Captain we also have Milo who I think is a
00:02:39
human but we also have Phoebe who is a dog wait we don't have a shout out to Ross and Rachel or Joey and Monica no
00:02:46
but that's on them Captain we do have a shout out for Heather and Groveport good
00:02:51
old oh iio iio that's right and next up we have lesie she says she's the OG Jersey girl in burlson Texas a big shout
00:03:00
out to Courtney which would like for us to try some Angry Orchard on the show and we also have Holly from Wellington
00:03:07
New Zealand thanks to everybody for filling up the fridge for this week's show if you want to help us out with
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next week's show go to True Crim garage.com and click on the Donate button and for everything true crime
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garage check out true garage.com and sign up on our mailing list and that's enough of the beers new thank you
00:03:24
Captain everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
00:03:53
briana's parents the mainland fielded hundreds of tips about Brianna's possible whereabouts in the day days and
00:04:00
weeks after her disappearance and they heard it all you know she was kidnapped and killed or she was tied to a tree she
00:04:08
was in a lake she was fed to Hogs but about a month after Brianna disappeared an anonymous phone call came in to Bruce
00:04:15
maitlin that said Brianna was being held in a Cellar at a farmhouse on Reservoir
00:04:21
Road in birkshire which is just about 15 minutes away from the Black Lantern in at Bruce's insistance on April 15th 2004
00:04:31
police went to the house in question and found that the house was occupied by none other than Ryan's and Jackson the
00:04:38
last names of the two drug dealers that we had discussed in the first episode a young local couple was also present at
00:04:46
this home these are two individuals both 17 years old at the time now police were
00:04:52
granted permission to search the premises and saw in plain sight drug paraphernalia cocaine pot and drugs but
00:05:00
there was no sign of Brianna and the house didn't even have a Sellar right police arrested all four present and
00:05:09
questioned them they all professed to know Brianna but no one knew where she was or what had happened to her they
00:05:17
were arraigned and released and Jackson and Ryan they actually left the area shortly after this occurred it's unknown
00:05:25
who made the anonymous call alleging Brianna was at the house in July of 2004 Brianna's parents and
00:05:33
their private investigators sifted through rumors about their daughter's disappearance one thing they heard from
00:05:40
multiple sources was Brianna's body could be found in a manure pit on a farm in Sheldon the manure pit was drained uh
00:05:49
Brianna was not in it uh the maintenance also followed up on tips taking them to
00:05:55
New York City and other places they even borrowed an underwater slash underground
00:06:00
camera to search parts of the area which included a river um and the river in question actually had portions that were
00:06:09
were now ice free by the time these searches were being conducted uh that would have had ice there when Brianna
00:06:15
disappeared right Brianna's parents accepted help from an organization that helps to find missing persons this group
00:06:22
is mja incorporated uh in this is an investigations group that is self-funded and does not charge chared the families
00:06:30
for work done on their behalf mja Personnel claims to have found some items in a ditch under some brush near
00:06:38
the crime scene and when we say crime scene we mean where her vehicle was found these were a pair of Victoria's
00:06:45
Secret underwear matching Brianna's size there was a syringe found as well and some zip ties with hair in them mja
00:06:54
turned all of these items over to the Vermont State Police if tests were ever run on the syringe zip ties or underwear
00:07:02
we are never told of these results right but in October of 2004 two mja employees
00:07:10
processed Brianna's car after it was released by The Vermont State Police lab according to Mark Harper of mja he found
00:07:18
traces of vomit on the door frame of the car on both sides a light blue syringe cap was also found and a minute traces
00:07:27
of blood um were found using a black light well they believed that the syringe cap matched the syringe that
00:07:34
they found in the ditch they also found three green fibers possibly from the trim of a jacket or a cuff or hem that
00:07:44
this didn't seem to these fibers didn't seem to match anything found at Brianna's home or where she was staying
00:07:51
so what we mean by this indication is that these fibers could have come from somebody else other than from something
00:07:58
that Brianna was wearing now what mja proclaims to have found in the car has been met with significant
00:08:05
skepticism the thing here is you you have to wonder how unlikely it may have been for the Vermont State
00:08:13
Police to have missed all of this evidence I'm not saying that they would have missed some of it or any one piece
00:08:21
of this evidence it seems difficult for me to believe that they would have missed all of this evidence inside the
00:08:26
small confines of that car well they also claimed that there was still fingerprint tape that was left from law
00:08:32
enforcement that looked like there was fingerprints that they could you know like when they pulled off the tape that
00:08:39
they could see fingerprints and why weren't those taken and why weren't those processed is what basically mja is
00:08:47
claiming yes and I saw that report as well I left out the fingerprint information because of the rebuttal by
00:08:55
the Vermont State Police stating that those were deemed to be be unusable prints for whatever reason yeah I think
00:09:03
they said they were unreadable there you go um so here's the thing or you know regarding this evidence or possible we
00:09:11
should say possible evidence as to what had happened it's hard to believe that they missed all of it but let's say that
00:09:17
they did or let's say that they found it and for whatever reason deemed it to be
00:09:22
unrelated because this car was in their possession for quite some time before mja was able to Pro access the car right
00:09:31
so regarding the the vomit the blood any thoughts there captain of of what you you feel because here's what my
00:09:41
gut tells me regarding the fibers okay so these fibers are are rather small um as we said it's likely they did not come
00:09:50
from Brianna right but this car is almost 20 years old and it's the inside as we described it there's there's
00:09:59
litter and trash all over this car yeah it looks like somebody's either living out of this car or that they just use
00:10:05
their car as a trash can yeah so it becomes very difficult to and again I I believe law enforcement when they say
00:10:14
hey these are unreadable Prints but when you say that you found vomit well dried vomit well was this
00:10:23
something that happened a month before she went missing and she just didn't clean it up I mean there's cans of tuna
00:10:30
there's trash everywhere mhm so one night you get a little drunk and you throw up and you clean most of it up and
00:10:38
there's some um residue left over yeah right or you're sick and you get sick um the blood as far as I'm concerned same
00:10:47
thing I kind of lump all these three things together the vomit the blood and the green fibers T well but you can test
00:10:52
the blood to find out if it's hers right but what I mean by this is not not look
00:10:58
you it could go either way obviously we don't know we just don't know it could actually be evidence of something or
00:11:06
this car is 20 years old and it wasn't well kept on the inside of this vehicle like you said any of this stuff could
00:11:12
have come from not just days or weeks before but it could have come even years before for all we know I it doesn't look
00:11:21
like they were in the habit of cleaning out the inside of this vehicle right so there's a decent chance at least in my
00:11:31
mind that there's a possibility that all three of these items have literally zero
00:11:35
connection to what actually happened and there has never been a real connection established between uh the victim and
00:11:45
the underwear that was found in the ditch right and we don't again I mean when you have needles involved and you
00:11:51
have rumors of drug use you then question and then you have the zip ties are you using the zip tie to tie your
00:11:59
arm off you know to inject something into you are you using the underwear to tie your arm off um these are
00:12:07
possibilities when there's rumors of drug use so we have Harper he's the uh independent investigator that quote
00:12:16
unquote found um things in the vehicle and he would state that he found enough things in the vehicle to back up his
00:12:23
theory and his theory is that Brianna was the victim of a serial killer operating in the area who leaves little
00:12:31
to no trace of evidence behind basing this on he based this off of footprints found on takeout containers on the floor
00:12:40
of her car and the rear view mirror supposedly being bent backwards stating that he believes that there was some
00:12:47
kind of struggle that took place in the vehicle that started in the front seat and may have moved to the back seat and
00:12:54
then to the outside of the vehicle he states that he believes that Brianna was ultimately subdued by using a hot shot
00:13:01
or a quick dose of an incapacitating drug and then the killer abducted and killed her and he' used that with the
00:13:10
syringe yes okay so again though I have but you have a guy that is supposedly a serial killer that doesn't leave behind
00:13:19
evidence and he's leaving behind a syringe right so but it's possible I mean we've seen plenty of serial killers
00:13:27
start killing people and get very sloppy it is very possible but again the evidence that he points to to suggest
00:13:35
this Theory I calling a question again footprints on containers that were in the vehicle I mean if if if he could
00:13:44
tell me that those containers didn't make their way into that vehicle until like 24 hours before she disappeared
00:13:50
then maybe I'll believe that those Footprints had something to do with her disappearance but again just like all
00:13:57
the other items we discussed those containers could have been in that car for a year right but for all we know if
00:14:02
they're bootprints or whatever and then you go okay well we have we know that this killer wears this type of
00:14:10
boot that's but how are we going to know that that killer wears that type of boot
00:14:14
he's I'm just going off of his words I don't have a whole lot of information on this Theory I'm just using the thought
00:14:20
that he says that this this serial killer leaves no evidence behind right but when when the guy says hey there's
00:14:27
some evidence we got these footprints do those Footprints match another case and if they do then I think you have to
00:14:34
keep open mind to that could be a possibility I mean she's only you know a mile and a half less than a mile and a
00:14:43
half from her her work where she left that that's very strange I mean could she have picked somebody up you know did
00:14:49
she pick somebody up in the parking lot before she left um those are all possibilities the other thing I wonder
00:14:56
while we're on the topic and we'll get back to the car again because there's a lot to talk
00:15:00
about with the car I feel but the thing I wonder too here Captain is it something as innocent on on Brianna's
00:15:10
behalf could she have pulled off the road thinking she either forgot something at work or needed to turn
00:15:17
around to go to a different direction for any number of reasons pull off the road and then kind of slammed it into
00:15:24
reverse and accidentally backed into the side of the we've all had accident so very possible or one of my thoughts
00:15:33
too was you know she gets off work if these drug rumors are true if the heavy drug use is true is she leaving work and
00:15:44
pulling off the side of the road to do some drugs real quick and this is a abandoned area and then you do a little
00:15:51
drugs and then for whatever reason she gets a little freaked out oh man I got to get out of here mhm or maybe a cop
00:15:57
Drives By or a couple couple cars drive by she starts getting freaked out I got to get out of here throws into reverse
00:16:03
hits the barn well after after about a year went by we do have some of Brianna's family
00:16:10
would say that they were starting to give up hope that she would ever be found alive but they did still continue
00:16:16
to search for her but then years would go by yeah and in 2007 Brianna's parents moved away from the area to New York to
00:16:26
the state of New York well and let's dive into that a little bit more because you're of the mind and I've been of the
00:16:33
mind too if you have a missing person in your family you don't want to leave the
00:16:38
area MH but during the investigation it came out that um Brianna was molested by
00:16:47
18-year-old male uh I believe that neighbor yeah I believe that male was a direct
00:16:54
neighbor and the family was getting threaten s uh the family was getting there was just a lot of stuff happening
00:17:03
and plus now you're you have this information you didn't have before about a neighbor and now you have to see that
00:17:12
person's very small town so this is one of the cases of a missing person where when
00:17:19
somebody says we left because things were getting bad I believe them uh we've seen it in so many other cases where
00:17:27
somebody is actually a suspect and the person going missing and they they jump town I'm always suspicious of that but
00:17:34
I'm not suspicious of it here well and and like you said we usually think that's a huge red flag but that would be
00:17:42
especially in the case of younger missing persons true where Brianna being 17 she and here's the vibe I get too
00:17:51
Captain with Brian and I obviously I don't know but I feel like this was a a young adult you know 17 years old about
00:18:01
to be an adult I really feel like this was somebody if she was getting her life on track like her mother says I kind of
00:18:07
feel like this is a a 17-year-old going on 25 right you know this was somebody that was ready to venture off into the
00:18:14
world and hold herself and carry herself like an adult now the thing that the thing that I also found to regarding
00:18:23
this and you put it in a in better more detailed terms terms was that we have Bruce I'm Batman her father he said in
00:18:34
the course of his searches for his daughter he confronted a lot of people demanding to know whether they knew
00:18:40
anything and this created a lot of enemies for him and his family and as you pointed out uh they received threats
00:18:48
uh in the process of looking for their daughter Bruce was working in the for forestry industry as well and he
00:18:56
publicly said that the strain on him was was big time and this is because he you
00:19:01
know he'd be out in the woods and finding scraps of clothing in the woods or seeing buzzards circling around it
00:19:08
was like or if he saw a fire he would have to check it out yeah I mean he he's at work and he can't get away years
00:19:15
later he can't get a away from this could this could have something to do with my daughter's disappearance or this
00:19:22
this could be finding my daughter today while I'm at work well it really makes you feel bad for the family and I think
00:19:27
in a lot of these cases we see um you know there talk about the victim but we don't talk so much about I mean the
00:19:36
effect that this has on the family members is is devastating it's lifechanging forever let's get into some
00:19:44
of the rumors because we've kind of been circling around this and but there are some very that uh very specific rumors
00:19:52
that have raised questions in this case the first according to several insights sources a lime wedge was found on the
00:20:01
trunk of Brianna's car right this despite the car having backed into the barn or the the I'm sorry The Farmhouse
00:20:10
and a portion of that Farmhouse collapsing onto the trunk of the car right so it's not known exactly where
00:20:18
this lime was found the lime gave rise to a slew of rumors that there was a party at the Dutch burn house that night
00:20:28
there is quite a bit of debate whether people hung out at that house at that abandoned house we do know that a gun
00:20:34
and drug paraphernalia was found inside there um could this have been a possible
00:20:40
meeting place for teenagers or used by dealers or a Meetup spot right um but on the other hand here here's the thing on
00:20:49
the other side of the coin Captain it seems a bit weird to me it seems to make little sense to me for illegal
00:20:57
activities to be inducted at what I would consider to be such a visible spot on a well-traveled road and what I mean
00:21:04
by that is her car is only there for a limited time and we have several people stating hey I saw her car there that
00:21:12
night right there's no evidence of a party and what I mean by that is we have eyewitnesses that saw her car we don't
00:21:20
have a single eyewitness that I've seen or that I've read about that saw multiple cars there where there was a
00:21:28
party right now it could be that again could it is it possible that she met people after work and they decided let's
00:21:38
go down to this barn and and do some drugs and have a little little tiny party that is possible MH uh but again
00:21:45
there's no evidence of that well like you pointed out earlier she's less than a mile and a half away from the Black
00:21:53
Lantern in yeah this is a bar and restaurant where I would expect to see and find lime wedges yeah you put the
00:22:03
lime in the coconut and we already reported the low temperature that night was 8° right A lot of people argue that this
00:22:11
line would be in contct with alcohol so therefore it wouldn't freeze and that's also not true just also depending on
00:22:20
like is in the proof is there's something to do with the proof that yeah so the alcohol by volume would would be
00:22:28
in direct relation to whether it would freeze or not right and again this wouldn't have to be in
00:22:34
contact somebody could just have lime in the water or whatever or it could be somebody some people like to cut up the
00:22:41
limes or the lemons and and and chew on them and eat them so is it possible somebody was out by her car or was
00:22:51
somebody just being a jerk and threw it and it hit her car and she didn't even know it was there M you I mean it's uh
00:23:00
well if it was discarded after somebody was done with their drink or if somebody
00:23:03
kind of you know you just kind of you toss out the drink with keeping the the glass in your hand if that were to occur
00:23:10
I would assume if if this is a mixed drink and that's what I would expect to find a lime on um or
00:23:17
in if they were discarding their drink it could be that it was the drink was considerably watered down by that point
00:23:25
and again like I said the low temperature that night is 8° we know that we we have to believe that she
00:23:32
wrecked her car between the time of leaving work which is about 11:30 at night and between the the first sighting
00:23:41
of the vehicle yeah which was just midnight or 1:00 depending on how you read that report so that's that's a half
00:23:48
an hour to an hour and a half later and at that time of night I'm going to expect it to be very close to the lowest
00:23:56
temperature of the night right again if the lime is on her on the roof of her car and we're also talking
00:24:03
about it's a big trunk yeah so it's not like the small trunks that we have today
00:24:10
so she hits the this building or whoever hits the building and that even if the line moves a little bit it could still
00:24:17
stay on the trunk I think it has nothing to do with this case I think it's simply
00:24:22
she worked at a bar she was a mile and a half from the bar I'm sure there's constantly things put on her car I I
00:24:29
don't think it has much to do with anything I had one time when uh when I was married that I was digging a ditch
00:24:36
and I needed to go to the store to get a new shovel and I took my I had my ring off while I was digging and was on the
00:24:42
back of my car on the bumper I drove miles went to the store then drove miles back and luckily the the ring stayed on
00:24:52
the car but so I I just don't put a lot of weight into this whole lime thing if it was even there we got to we got to
00:24:59
keep in mind that this is a we're going through the rumor section of what was going on I'll just assume that it it
00:25:06
seems like a strange thing for someone to just make up so let's go with that it was true but again I'm going to go back
00:25:12
to she was coming from a place where I would expect to be many lime wedges you know it's a bar it's a restaurant right
00:25:19
you know I think that it was likely Frozen to the vehicle before she even left there now another rumor in the case
00:25:25
that has been Central to this case has to do with a story told by Brianna's mother that Brianna seems to have seen
00:25:33
someone or something that day when they were at the mall the same day that she went missing that that shook her up yeah
00:25:39
remember there she had this uh thing happen where Brianna went into the parking lot then came back and she was
00:25:47
shooken up so one witness much later told maitlyn family private investigator that he had been told by someone unnamed
00:25:57
that this individual went to the mall and warned Brianna to not go to work that night right so I mean I I guess
00:26:08
this would go probably go back to something we talked about on yesterday's show did
00:26:14
she has she made some type of enemy or did she owe somebody money or was this something to do with the local drug
00:26:22
scene right or the girl that punched her in the face multiple times the other thing to that the the true two drug
00:26:30
dealers that we've discussed on the show that there seems to be some possible connection if not directly with Brianna
00:26:36
or would have been with maybe some of the people she some of the circles she ran in right would be this Ryan's and
00:26:44
Jackson character here's the thing okay I got to believe look in a lot of these cases
00:26:53
that we've covered especially when we go back to like the 60s or 70s there's always the rumor of well soand so must
00:27:02
have owed a drug dealer money and they didn't pay up so the dealer came after him and killed him right okay let's
00:27:09
think about that for a second now I understand that crazy things do happen and that mathmatically not everything
00:27:16
always works out but can we just agree that the overwhelming majority of the time when when a situation like that
00:27:24
goes down it's because somebody owes a considerable amount of money or a considerable amount of drugs to
00:27:32
someone a a a pot dealer doesn't go after somebody for a hundred bucks and kill them it just it it it does not
00:27:42
happen o well it depends on how you run the streets you know no but can can we agree I think as a whole as all the
00:27:49
garage Army I think we need to just agree that that's not the way that these things go down so that's not how I run
00:27:55
my streets well that's fine but the thing what I'm what I'm trying to get at here is then if we
00:28:03
have to under if we go down the thought of her being killed for drug money or a debt that that was owed to drug dealers
00:28:11
right that also means that those drug dealers permitted Brianna to rack up a huge debt that typically doesn't happen
00:28:21
usually often when somebody sells somebody something or fronts them something if they're not paid for it
00:28:28
they don't front them again and again and again and again and again right but this also I mean we have rumors that she
00:28:34
was doing not just smoking pot but you know possibly smoking crack and then on top of that getting a job the rumor was
00:28:43
that she got the second job to pay off a debt right but I I don't know how that counters what I was saying about racking
00:28:51
up a a large debt well but you could rack up it might not be over and over it could been a one-time thing where this
00:28:59
person felt like Hey we're pretty you know not only are you buying drugs from me but we're friends all you need this
00:29:06
much coke or you need this much whatever and or maybe heck for all we know the the it was she was going to sell it for
00:29:15
him or something and something went bad she owed him a bunch of money right I no
00:29:20
I agree with that um but I agree with your theory that a drug dealer is not going to let her rack up a debt over a
00:29:26
period of time what I'm saying is there is that possibility of hey onetime thing
00:29:32
you know because this is a 17-year-old that's living on their own and needs money right so well and then on top of
00:29:41
that though so as far as the drugs that we mentioned uh as being well not just mentioned but what we know was being
00:29:49
brought into the area most of those you would have to sell a a huge quantity for them to be
00:29:56
EXP expensive you know the only expensive drug in that list is cocaine and usually people don't front somebody
00:30:04
you know hundreds of dollars or thousands of dollars of cocaine especially somebody they don't know very
00:30:10
well well a guy might to a pretty girl the other thing we have to consider too is if somebody owes a debt to a drug
00:30:17
dealer if you kill the person that owes the debt you can't collect on that Deb this show is sponsored by better help do
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maybe by 2049 they'll be all gone can I advise all the owners and operators of white
00:32:57
creeper Vans out there to go to the website store Page purchase a shirt and wear it anytime you are operating your
00:33:04
creeper van so that the people that see you operating this van know that you're one of the good people yes this good
00:33:11
person this is also a perfect shirt for soccer moms as well there you go so let's get into um I know we've already
00:33:19
touched on some of the theories here Captain but there are some that we've not really dove into yet and one that
00:33:26
really speaking of Creeper van let's take out the van part this Theory really creeps
00:33:32
the hell out of me and probably a lot of others out there and this was a very popular Theory early on that someone was
00:33:40
hiding in the back seat of Brianna's car while she was at work and as she drove down east Berkshire Road was attacked
00:33:49
and maybe the attack caused the accident somehow into the abandoned house and then this person hiding in her car
00:33:57
abducted her yeah possible I mean we again we have the rumors of the threats being made to not go to work she goes to
00:34:06
work anyways cuz she needs the money and then the person that maybe threatens her
00:34:10
or the group of people that threatens her goes hey we're going to teach her a lesson when she gets in the car we'll be
00:34:17
waiting and I know that sounds very urban legend is right but we do have Bruce maitlin he initially embraced this
00:34:25
Theory and police did say that it's still considered a possibility to this day so did the per wait in the car and
00:34:36
wait for her to pull off away from work there's a couple things that might be tricky about that we don't know how
00:34:44
long her shift was that day or when this person would have entered the vehicle we
00:34:49
do know it was very cold out that night it seems like um somebody sitting there quite bored and quite cold for maybe
00:34:57
hours waiting for this individual to return to that's why I would think it would be involved with the threats
00:35:02
because there's the people that were making threats to her would know what time she was starting possibly what time
00:35:08
she'd be ending as well you also have to you bring up a good um possibility could someone you have to
00:35:15
wonder could somebody go into the establishment and get a feel for when she might be leaving that night and not
00:35:22
have to wait out there in the cold right the other thought too and this was a theory that is interesting we have the
00:35:31
thought that Brianna was ambushed by multiple people with some type of Roadblock that may have forced her to
00:35:37
pull over and then she was taken from that abandoned house area this to me seems less likely than the perpetrator
00:35:45
hiding in her car the only reason why I say that is because the way this theory is
00:35:52
reads implies multiple individuals working together we already discussed that this is an area with no cell
00:35:58
service this would further complicate individuals working together plus that we never hear of any evidence or could
00:36:06
find of any evidence stating that there were skid marks on the road right but if
00:36:11
we want to talk all these possible you know crazy possibilities there's people it's the
00:36:19
threat's not coming from one person the threats coming from multiple people we know that that is something that spooked
00:36:26
her we know that they didn't want her to go to work for whatever reason that's evidence we do have so if these
00:36:33
individuals didn't want her to go to work who knows why right or but but but a warning doesn't it could be either way
00:36:42
it could be somebody saying we don't you know we don't want her to go to work for
00:36:45
whatever reason or someone that knows of something that could be going down and trying to say hey it's unsafe for you to
00:36:52
go to work right I but I think most people believe the threat that was was made while she was shopping was you
00:36:59
don't go to work not that something's bad's going to happen like you better not do that so she goes to work could
00:37:06
somebody be in the backseat of her car possibly could somebody be uh could they uh run her off the road possibly could
00:37:14
they set up a roadblock possibly could somebody be in the backseat of her car and they set up a roadblock
00:37:20
also all these things are possible I think we just have such lack of evidence these things I think that you're right
00:37:29
there and I I would agree with if I had to pick one or two of those being as being more likely the roadblock is the
00:37:36
one to me that doesn't make a lot of sense because we've already discussed that well the reason why it makes sense
00:37:40
though is it's the reversing and hitting the barn from reverse and if you set up
00:37:46
a roadblock like maybe you'd be like what the hell is happening here and then you'd slow down but once you slowed down
00:37:52
enough where you'd see who was in the cars of the road block block or who was out of the cards of the roadblock then
00:37:59
you might punch it back into gear cuz you're going to have to hit this Barn going 35 40 m an hour and that's pretty
00:38:06
fast going in reverse so that's the only reason why that that theory is plausible
00:38:12
to me I agree with that what I meant was that it's a busy road that we've we've already discussed how many people we
00:38:18
think were traveling on the road after midnight that night and it it seems to me like a roadblock would have been
00:38:24
tough for to pull off and not have anybody else see it or say hey there was some strange activity going on just
00:38:31
before midnight on that road I agree fully with that yeah then there's the other Theory and this might be even more
00:38:38
plausible that that Brianna met someone at the abandoned house or near the abandoned house the night that she uh
00:38:46
went missing and was abducted from there so pointing to the possibility of a struggle inside her car or just outside
00:38:54
of her car her family has stated that they do believe that there was a possible struggle at this scene some
00:39:03
investigators believe that there may have been a violent confrontation inside the vehicle we discussed that earlier
00:39:11
this based on the the lights and the blinkers going on and off so things scattered around inside and outside of
00:39:19
the car as well as those reports about The Lights being on the blinkers being on the blinkers not being on there is
00:39:27
the report from the police that states a broken piece of jewelry was found outside of the
00:39:32
vehicle again here's what I would like to hear in this situation a broken piece of jewelry was found outside of the
00:39:41
vehicle we know that the officer picked it up assumed that it came from the vehicle so he put it back in the vehicle
00:39:46
and then had the vehicle towed right can we get anybody friends or family to say
00:39:51
yes that was a piece of her jewelry right because just like what what we discussed about the vehicle being almost
00:39:57
20 years old and items inside of it could have been there for years for months for weeks that broken piece of
00:40:03
jewelry could have just happened to landed there years ago you know or months ago right if you could prove it
00:40:10
was her it leans that evidence leans towards the idea that there would be a struggle at that scene what I think
00:40:17
points more towards a a direct connection between uh to our victim or our missing person is the loose chain
00:40:26
that is a rumor to have been found on the ground outside of where the car would have been so we talked about what
00:40:34
she we do know that she wore to work that night that apron that had pockets on the outside of it uhhuh we we don't
00:40:40
have family or friends to tell us what else she was wearing that night but here just a general thought is either she
00:40:47
still has that apron on or maybe it's on her lap and either through the course of
00:40:52
some kind of struggle or even just the simple Act of getting out of the vehicle at that scene of the abandoned house
00:41:00
could cause loose change to come out of those pockets and fall onto the the ground there what I'm getting at with
00:41:06
this is you're saying well what does that point to to me that kind of points to Brianna could have very likely or was
00:41:14
very likely at that scene right that night so let's go back to 2006 for a minute this is when the maand started to
00:41:23
work with a private investigator named Greg overacker the maand were very frustrated with what they perceived as a
00:41:31
lack of progress in the case and at about the same time they're getting assisted by Kelly Maitland's sister
00:41:37
Tammy they have their website up and going right and they're receiving several tips and some of these tips are
00:41:43
about a man called The Joker now according to tips The Joker whom police later identified as Jorge SoDo 26 years
00:41:52
old of Springfield Massachusetts was an associate of Raymond Ryan and Nathaniel Jackson the two uh very well-known drug
00:42:01
dealers by our listeners at this point Soto reportedly bragged repeatedly that he had killed Brianna people in Richford
00:42:09
said that SoDo was Notorious in their town for having quote strangled a puppy to death at a party with his bare hands
00:42:16
end quote this is believed because its barking got on his nerves when the police questioned Soto about his
00:42:23
boastings concerning Brianna he told them that his claims were only bravado made up to make him quote appear big and
00:42:31
mean end quote in the eyes of those that He dealt drugs to right but he was big and mean well he was certainly mean I
00:42:39
didn't see the size of this man but I'll I'll go on your word um but even after police questioned him SoDo reportedly
00:42:46
continued to tell people that he killed Brianna and even told one group of teens
00:42:51
he buried her body in a cornfield behind a house he occasionally occupied so the the thing here is that I
00:43:02
did see someone this is tough because I couldn't find the actual information myself but I found someone discussing
00:43:12
that SoDo was actually arrested and put in jail prior to Brianna's disappearance and he was he was released
00:43:21
the day before she disappeared yes so I went down that trail and I was think well this person's going to say that he
00:43:27
was locked up and he couldn't have done anything to Brianna but according to this source which I've not been able to
00:43:35
verify he he was arrested but was in fact released just the day before he would have been somewhat in this area is
00:43:44
the thing that we do know at the time of her disappearance right I wonder if there's
00:43:48
any well they probably didn't ask but I wonder if what if he went to that bar that night saw her he knows her through
00:43:56
her other drug dealer connections M hey can you give me a ride that you know and
00:44:03
but there's nothing that I have found that puts him in that town that day but in law enforcement I think their claim
00:44:12
is we would have known if he's in town you wouldn't know there's 13 of you right you'd know if he's in town for a
00:44:21
while but you wouldn't know the minute he had there's not some radar that goes off so it's definitely possible I think
00:44:27
it's very creepy and you got to be a giant piece of [ __ ] to walk around telling people that you're responsible
00:44:35
for this uh and then when the cops come up on you you say ah I'm just bragging to you know to make myself look bigger
00:44:43
well and then go back to stating that you did kill her after you're done talking to the police right but they
00:44:50
need to follow up on some of these rumors I mean if he's talking about baring her and this cornfield you know
00:44:55
you know how much does it cost to get cadaver dogs to go out and and search it would seem to me like I can come to two
00:45:03
conclusions regarding Jorge SoDo or the Joker right we we either have an individual that actually killed Brianna
00:45:12
or we have a guy that's a freaking [ __ ] okay that's the only two conclusions I
00:45:17
can come to with this guy now both according to GRE Greg overaker um the private investigator he
00:45:25
stated that so eventually ended up being sent to a mental health facility and to
00:45:29
prison as well the other prevailing Theory another prevailing Theory I should say that while questioning locals
00:45:37
friends Anda acquaintances of Brianna Greg overaker repeatedly heard the following story there was a late night
00:45:45
party in Richford the night Brianna disappeared overaker was told Brianna attended and something horrible happened
00:45:53
to her at the party some people said she was killed at the party others said she
00:45:59
overdosed others said she was deliberately overdosed right several reports that overacker heard had
00:46:06
Brianna's body disposed of quote on a farm somewhere in Franklin County so under this Theory she would have
00:46:15
attended the party after crashing the car in my opinion the time frame between the witnesses seeing her uh leave work
00:46:23
and then seeing the car around 12 to 1:00 right it's seems likely that this is too short of a time period for her to
00:46:33
have gone to the party ODed and someone then ditched the car at the Dutch burn place before the witnesses saw the car
00:46:43
so if this is the case then does the car crashing into the barn have anything to
00:46:48
do with what happened to Brianna it seems unlikely that the car crash is just incidental in my opinion and then
00:46:56
her going to a party and dying of a drug overdose that same night right Brianna's
00:47:01
friend Katie believes that at least four locals know exactly what happened that night one was someone she considered a
00:47:08
friend until he told her he was present when he witnessed quote The Light leave Brianna's eyes Brianna's friend Megan
00:47:17
who says Brianna was involved in drugs also believes that Brianna odid and that the locals covered it up to hide the
00:47:25
lethal overdose by a minor and their own involvement other possibilities that have been raised over the years we have
00:47:33
a situation where Bruce and Kelly maitlin received a confidential tip concerning a 32-year-old Burlington man
00:47:41
named Gerald Montgomery the tipster told the maand that Montgomery was an associate of Ryan's and
00:47:48
Jackson we get into the story but one thing I want to point out here Captain there's a lot of rumors going on about
00:47:54
what could have happened to this girl doesn't it seem crazy that most of them seem to the names Ryan and Jackson keep
00:48:01
coming back up yeah that they're they're either Associates or they know or they were involved in somehow well and all
00:48:08
the rumors about her drug use if if you believe on one side that she was cleaning herself up or if you believe
00:48:16
that she was getting more into it or depending on it's a depending on what kind of habit you think she
00:48:22
had obviously people she's getting drug from Play A Part in that and they're going to play a part in a lot of
00:48:29
different scenarios I got you I got you it's it's like if drugs if you believe drugs were any way involved at all in
00:48:36
her life then the two well-known drug dealers are are in the storytelling right if she's doing crack or heroin
00:48:43
from these guys and she does these drugs that night and she dies from an OD well
00:48:49
guess who the cops are also going to come after yeah the people with the bad drugs so
00:48:56
so regarding this Gerald Montgomery the tipster said that um that he had something to do with this now the maand
00:49:05
are already aware of Montgomery at this point I would believe and this would be through newspapers because in March of
00:49:13
2005 Montgomery raped beat and strangled to death a 31-year-old woman this is Laura
00:49:21
winterbottom um the rape murder took place in a vehicle on Burlington Street after his arrest it was learned that
00:49:28
Montgomery worked in Burlington worked in a Burlington elementary school but was con a convicted sex offender in New
00:49:37
York so he was a convicted sex offender in New York and then moved to the Vermont area and started working in the
00:49:44
school before he killed this woman yeah I don't know the details of of him being
00:49:51
involved in Brianna's case or leading to her disappearance just this is somebody
00:49:57
that we know is capable of murder and it sounds like he was in the immediate area
00:50:03
at the time in 2008 the Vermont State Police issued a press release saying the following investigators believe that
00:50:11
there is a strong indication that Brianna is in fact a victim of Foul Play there is no evidence at all at this time
00:50:18
to indicate that Brianna willingly left the area so it sounds to me like in 2008 the Vermont state police were kind
00:50:28
of back to square one in a sense because square one started off being that they thought that she was either uh some kind
00:50:37
of runaway or just an irresponsible teenager that would turn up eventually right so in 2015 a Canadian
00:50:44
investigative journalist named trik started looking into the case now teric says he's 100% certain that Brianna's
00:50:53
disappearance was drug related although not because she owed a debt she was quote made to Disappear by several
00:51:02
people in that business not just a random killer but people said you know but people she knew according to tck tck
00:51:09
believes that the murder was planned that Brianna was warned about it that day at the mall and she chose to ignore
00:51:16
the warning both overacker he's the private investigator and TK agree that there is a conspiracy of Silence around
00:51:25
this case and agree to some extent about Brianna's fate overacker thinks that at
00:51:30
least three people know directly what happened to Brianna but it may be a group different from Ryan's and Jackson
00:51:38
the two drug dealers so in other words that locals were involved right he says up to 15 people likely have information
00:51:47
on the case looking into this case recently overacker heard from an informant that a car followed Brianna
00:51:54
that night from the Black Lantern in forced her to pull over and grabbed her according to this informant multiple
00:52:01
people were at the Dutch burn house when Brianna was taken and the car was disposed of or wanted to be disposed of
00:52:10
the informant told overacker that a tall male attempted to drive the car but his
00:52:14
knees got in the way and he accidentally crashed it into the side of the abandoned house these people all were
00:52:22
complicit in or had knowledge of Brianna's death and Disposal the informant was not a was not local to
00:52:31
this case but moved in the same circles as those responsible he said that Brianna was buried on a piece of
00:52:39
property a private property somewhere in the area now we would be remiss if we didn't
00:52:46
discuss a possible case connection right Captain there is one other theory that has now been well
00:52:56
some would say it's been debunked by law enforcement and Brianna's family but it's an intriguing one and one that we
00:53:02
should mention part of the reason that Brianna's case received so much attention from the media and the public
00:53:08
from the get-go was because it seemed all too familiar there is another case of a young woman taking off in her car
00:53:16
destination maybe unknown crashing it in the dark Rural Road in the upper New England area and Vanishing from the face
00:53:24
of the Earth yeah and in fact this case took place only 90 miles from where Brianna went missing and it occurred
00:53:32
just 5 weeks earlier and yes we are talking about Mara Murray let me just start off with the whole idea of only 90
00:53:40
miles if you said hey uh I'm moving don't worry it's only 90 miles away that's that's a far
00:53:50
distance yeah and remember we had this when we discussed the case of the two two murdered ladies that were both out
00:53:57
jogging and they were killed within like sorry I don't have my notes in front of
00:54:01
me but it would have been like a roughly a week of one another and they both happen to be out jogging when when they
00:54:07
were attacked by by separate individuals right the cases were not related at all
00:54:12
but they were in the general same area of the country and they were both doing the same activity when they were
00:54:21
attacked those cases had nothing to do with one another one thing I will say here though that that I I think it's
00:54:30
appropriate to get into it here is that I do understand the math you know everybody says regarding Mara Murray and
00:54:37
they say it as well with Brianna matlin's case well that's because you went to school for a computer no but
00:54:44
they say the math do you understand the mathematics of someone happen to they happen to be in an accident and before
00:54:54
they could could get to safety or get to another location they cross paths with a
00:54:59
serial killer yes I understand how ridiculous that would be the probability of that happening and then let's factor
00:55:09
in that it was the same serial killer that is as close to I mean we're not even talking about lightning
00:55:17
striking twice we're talking about something even more improvable than that but what is far more likely is that the
00:55:26
two could have ended with the similar fate right we could have a situation here where both did
00:55:35
accidentally crash their cars and they cross path with cross paths with a killer someone that would go on to
00:55:43
attack abduct and kill them not necessarily the same individual and what I mean by that is
00:55:51
we've covered enough cases Captain we've seen plenty of time times where somebody
00:55:56
they didn't wake up that day with the intention of abducting attacking and killing somebody but by the end of the
00:56:03
their day that's what happened for whatever reason and maybe it's because they came across the their eventual
00:56:09
victim just by happen stance right so if there is any relationship between these
00:56:16
two cases in my opinion would be that it's just a similar set of circumstances not that they're in fact
00:56:23
related in any other way so where the case stands today we have Lieutenant Glenn Hall says cops have
00:56:30
worked this case to death but still can't offer closure to the family Hall believes that the tips regarding drug
00:56:37
abuses uh parties and overdoses were exaggerated and there is no real evidence that Brianna was involved in
00:56:45
the drug scene as the rumors claim he stated in 2014 that authorities do have quote Persons of Interest in the case
00:56:54
but in a a surprise Revelation reported by WCAX in March of 2016 police indicated
00:57:01
that they have DNA evidence obtained from Brianna's vehicle and that they continue to work the case as a case of
00:57:08
missing of a missing person with suspected good to hear that though with suspected foul play as of March 2018 the
00:57:16
Vermont State Police say that the case is still active with several leads but no clear suspect so what are your
00:57:25
thoughts on the this case here Captain well this one is very difficult I think for two reasons one that you can
00:57:32
basically take all the actual evidence and put it on a very small piece of paper the amount of rumors you could put
00:57:41
the actual evidence on the lime wedge probably yes and then you could fill a whole book with the rumors yeah and and
00:57:50
that's what makes this very difficult and and the reason why it's similar to the mara Murray case to me is you have
00:57:58
all these things like the lime wedge like the the way the car was crashed mhm the are going to work these possible
00:58:07
threats you have all these things that they might mean everything or they could mean nothing
00:58:14
and probably mathematically you would have to wager that the majority of these things likely mean
00:58:22
nothing right I I I do put a little more weight um I've heard some of the private
00:58:28
investigators and some uh armchair detectives talking about the rumors that the friends have came forward I mean
00:58:35
it's been years later you know she's since she's gone missing and now you have some of her really close friends
00:58:41
that are coming forward and to me it's almost um they're trying to get something off their chest I don't think
00:58:48
the rumors were that the friends were there but they know of people that Abriana was with
00:58:55
I I put a little bit more weight into those um confessions if you will uh than I think most of the other people
00:59:04
because they're going well what they're saying makes sense but the scene at the car doesn't make any sense and I don't
00:59:14
think necessarily they have to go hand inand so we might not be able to explain the car crash we might be able to
00:59:22
explain this one in I put a little more weight into what they're saying um but this one is a big I don't know I agree
00:59:31
with that and I think a big problem like you stated not just the rumors but there's also so many different people
00:59:37
rumored to have been involved and right that makes it extremely difficult the other thing that I find Crazy is we're
00:59:43
not talking we shouldn't be talking about a large circle of people coming forward we already said there's only
00:59:49
like 900 people in the town total so the amount of people coming forward those rumors can't even seem to agree on who
00:59:57
the number one suspect is and the number one reason why she would have been killed right you know so that seems
01:00:05
weird to me and not even a clear understanding if she was even involved in drugs um on that level at all I think
01:00:14
that you know there are several possibilities that I can't walk away from one being that it could be as
01:00:22
simple as she intended to turn around on her drive for whatever reason any number
01:00:29
of reasons accidentally wedged her car up on that foundation and she couldn't drive off with that car and we know that
01:00:37
she picked up a a hitchhiker at one time this is her mom's statement that points
01:00:42
to me that she might be willing to get into somebody's car and that could be somebody that decided to do something
01:00:49
terrible at a moment's notice right for no real reason at all other than their a complete
01:00:56
monster the other troubling thing too is like we pointed out that those two same
01:01:00
drug dealers names seem to come up in most of the rumors as to what happened to Brianna uh so you can't discount that
01:01:09
really the other thought with her ex-boyfriend James is weird because he says later that he saw her vehicle yeah
01:01:19
we know they have some kind of History it's unclear to me what his history was with that key girl who I also said you
01:01:27
know like Bruce maitlin said has not officially been cleared in his opinion and I don't think she's officially been
01:01:33
cleared in my opinion either but this James guy I did come across some rumors that he may not have
01:01:40
actually been in Canada that night at all uh but I couldn't find any hardcore proof that that was in fact the case but
01:01:48
those are the rumors then the weird thing this is like the Encyclopedia Brown and me that going off on something
01:01:55
that's completely likely has nothing to do with the case but something that is mentioned
01:02:00
in the case and doesn't seem to add up or make sense was that she left the note at her friend's house stating that she
01:02:07
would return after her shift I wish we had a little more information on that because what also is reported is that
01:02:13
her friend was out of town that weekend and she reported or called the maand family to state that hey she's
01:02:23
been missing and I've been home since Sunday and now it's Tuesday and I can't find her I don't know where she is but
01:02:30
what I call into question is if you know your friend is out of town for the weekend why bother leaving the note
01:02:37
stating that you would be back at her place after her your shift you're telling somebody that's not there that
01:02:43
you're going to be there right that seems like a strange thing that that I wish we had more information on that now
01:02:51
in conclusion you know so we have the Black Lantern and it did close in 2015 eventually it would reopen under
01:02:59
new ownership the dutchburn house eventually burned to the ground in a fire in 2016 Brianna has been missing for 14
01:03:09
years many people looking into this case believe that it is likely this case will
01:03:14
be solved too many people seem to have information on what may have happened to her for it to stay under wraps forever
01:03:22
all it will take is one of them to break the quote conspiracy of Silence surrounding this case Bruce maitlin
01:03:30
doesn't believe Brianna is alive any longer he believes she knew the person who eventually abducted and killed her
01:03:38
he believes that Brianna met someone at the Dutch burn house and there was a struggle but beyond that it's all
01:03:45
speculation based on evidence that doesn't make a lot of sense quote I don't think this was a random act of
01:03:52
being in the wrong place at the wrong long time maitlin told foxnews.com he said there was something going on in
01:04:00
Brianna's life that we don't know about she had obviously made a connection with
01:04:05
someone that may have resulted in what happened to her all right we want to thank everybody
01:04:16
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