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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
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with me this week is my very special guest, Aaron from the Generation Why podcast. Hey Nick, great to be on your
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show. Thank you for joining us. I thought since you are our guest this week that it would be appropriate to ask
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you if you have a beer that you would like to choose for the beer of the week this
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week. Absolutely. My favorite beer, hands down. If someone said, "You'll get free beer for a year, but you can only
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drink this beer." it would be Deschutes Obsidian Stout. How about a garage grade?
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It would be five caps out of five easily. Well, Deschutes Brewery describes their Obsidian Stout like
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this, "Deep, robust, and richly rewarding. This is beer to linger over. Obsidian has distinct notes of espresso,
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chocolate, roasted malt, and black barley with just enough hot bite to cut the sweetness."
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Now, for me, the reason I like it is because it's not too hoppy. It's very dark. I mean, you can't see through it.
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And it's perfectly balanced between the chocolate and the malt and the espresso. So, it's the kind of
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beer that I can linger over, as they say, or I can just drink it regular. I can just I can down a couple pretty
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quick. So, it seems like a beer that fits pretty much any occasion. Thank you, Aaron. And this week's beer is
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brought to us by all of you good listeners out there. First up, we have Amy from Columbus. Next, a shout-out to
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Valerie L from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And we have Jessica and her friend Mallory Forza Young in Portland, Oregon. And
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last but not least, we have Robin in Kirkwood, Missouri. So, thanks to everybody for going to
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truecrimegarage.com and helping out with this week's beer fund. If you want to help us out with
00:02:32
next week's show, go to truecrimegarage.com and click on the donate button. And that's enough of the business. Everybody
00:02:39
gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime. Randy and Debra Sandstrom lived together
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for about 20 years at their home on South River Road, about 2 miles out in the country beyond the Delaware County
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Fairgrounds in Walton, New York. Walton is a small town, population of a little over 3,000 people.
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Debra was born on January 4th, 1965. She and her siblings grew up in Walton, and she graduated from high school there
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in 1984. Randy was from Roscoe. He was one of three children of farmers. Randy joined the army in 1981
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after high school and served two years. Afterward, he operated a small engine repair shop. The Sandstroms did not have
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children together, but before they got together back in 1989, Randy had a child with his girlfriend at the time. His
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daughter's name is Mindy. Randy and his girlfriend, the child's mother, didn't stay
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together. And unfortunately, Randy left when his daughter was just about 2 years
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old, moving about 30 miles away. Now, Randy failed to maintain a relationship with
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his daughter. He would send cards, money, and sometimes a gift for birthdays or Christmas, but he did not
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see his daughter after he left. Mindy has talked about this since, saying that she thought maybe, at least
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from what she heard, is that Randy's wife, Debra, was jealous and didn't want him to have a relationship with his
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daughter because that would take away from their relationship. Yeah, Melin- she stated that
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uh and now she's in her late 20s, but she said that, quote, "He wasn't around." Uh or I'm sorry, he was only around
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until she was about two, and that seems to be when he met Debra and then moved to Walton.
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And she says, "I didn't see him again after that." adding that she didn't really know him at all.
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So, all of this takes place seemingly when Randy and Debra meet or fall in love or what have
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you. We do already know that they went on to be married and have a long relationship.
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Debra worked for years with a Delaware County Social Welfare Agency. Later, she began working as a grocery store
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cashier. Randy worked for many years at the warehouse for Drogan's Home Furnishings.
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And then for some time at Scott Machine Corporation, an engraving firm in Walton.
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Now, the Sandstroms had an interesting hobby. Randy, being the son of farmers, why not, right? Uh they sometime in the
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late '90s, they started growing pumpkins, and they wanted to learn how to grow the biggest pumpkins that maybe
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anyone in the great state of New York has ever seen. Randy was the founding president of the
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New York State Giant Pumpkin Growers Association. And in 1999, Randy and Debra set a goal
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to break the state record for the largest pumpkin. I guess in 2008, they grew a pumpkin that weighed almost 1,500
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lb. Yeah, there there are these pumpkins, and you can't just go buy seeds at a store, from what I
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understand. You have to get the right seeds, and the type of pumpkins they're growing are
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Dill's Atlantic Giant. They were trying to grow these giant pumpkins. Now, 2008,
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1,500 lb, huge, right? Well, to give you some perspective, nowadays, they're 2,600 lb.
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So, these pumpkins are no joke, and they start uh as a little potling, as I would
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call it, in your kitchen, basically. And then they end up outside, and you have to grow them a certain way. It takes a
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lot of care, a lot of patience, and of course, later, you need a crane, basically, to move these things.
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Um they were even in a documentary from 2007 titled The Lords of the Gourd. Also in their garden, they they tended
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to pumpkins, dozens of tomato plants, and other standard vegetables, as well as blueberries and grapes. They didn't hang
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out at bars, they didn't go to church, they farmed, and they grew big, fat, giant pumpkins. Simple life, simple
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story, right? Nothing out of the ordinary, except for the poor, sad decision Randy made to not be a real
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father to a little girl. But we wouldn't be talking about this story on a show like The Garage or on a
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show like Generation Why if it were just that simple, would we? So, in 2010, apparently, Randy
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did his whole Houdini trick once again, apparently leaving Debra high and dry. Now, Debra told friends and neighbors
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that Randy had run off. Randy had met someone else, and that new love interest got pregnant. Debra said
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Randy took off to start a new life, and according to Debra, the Sandstroms had been hiding a secret for years. The
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family secret is Randy was an abusive man, and Debra was forced to live in an abusive relationship for years.
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After Randy was gone, Debra told friends and neighbors that they did not know the real Randy.
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She told a story of a late-night fight when Randy came home very late one night, and because Debra was upset with
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Randy for being out so late, she locked him out of the house. So, Randy tried to break into the house, and
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this ultimately led to a physical altercation in which Randy hit Debra, and then Debra hit Randy. Yeah, this is
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a story someone reported that they had heard. As best as I can tell, it seems like a
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deviation from the couple that everyone knew. I mean, you already talked about how
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they didn't go out to bars, they didn't go on road trips, they were gardeners. Gardening was their life. I mean, it
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went beyond a hobby. It became their life. Yeah, Debra went on to say that her ticket out of this abusive
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relationship was when Randy fell for another woman and then took off. With Randy gone,
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Debra continued to work and live at the couple's home. She continued gardening and walking their dog. She would often
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walk her dog with the next door neighbor. It became kind of routine for the two of
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them to talk, and sometimes Debra to share stories about Randy. Now, about a year after Randy was gone, Debra got a
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job as a cashier at the Big M Supermarket in Walton. The owner said that Debra was a hard
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worker and was a customer favorite. She had been working at Big M Supermarket for about two years, I
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believe, when in February of 2013, she was accused of stealing a pocketbook that a customer had left at the store.
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Apparently, Deborah kept the pocketbook and when confronted about the missing pocketbook, she lied saying she didn't
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know where it could be. But the store's video surveillance footage told a much different story. The
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pocketbook was, in fact, in Deborah's possession. The store decided the best thing to do
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was to press charges and Deborah was charged with larceny. Yeah, it's a it's a theft and it cost her her job.
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And then she was charged. Five counts of larceny in the fourth degree. And basically, this is
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because she took a pocketbook and this is verified on video. And the amount that she stole was in
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excess of a thousand dollars. At least the value of the pocketbook. So, she's charged with this five counts, you said,
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and for unknown reasons, Deborah Sunstrom decides to not appear in court. She failed to appear in court.
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And what happens when you don't show up to court? Well, a bench warrant is issued.
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They're going to go and deliver the warrant and make you go to court. So, the warrant was typed up and now it's
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time to deliver said warrant. Law enforcers learned that Deborah was spending a lot of time at a some of some
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have called it a vacation home or second home that was owned by the Bosco family.
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Deborah was involved in a relationship with Dominic Bosco. So, that's where law enforcement is going to go once they
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don't find Deborah at her home. They don't just send a couple of officers. They send
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the Walton Police Chief, Brian Lauser, and Delaware County Sheriff Office Senior Investigator, Carl Vaughts, Jr.
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Sounds like pretty pretty important law enforcement personnel showing up to serve this
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warrant. They're sending the brass. So, this is at at about 2:00 p.m. on February 19th, 2013.
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As you said, Aaron, we have the Walton Police Chief. We have a ranking investigator from the Sheriff's Office.
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They're going to serve this warrant at 294 John Lockwood Road. Deborah Sunstrom answered the door when
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they knocked. The officers informed her she was being arrested. Now, Deborah answered the door wearing a
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nightshirt. She asked if the officers could possibly wait on the stoop just outside the front
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door so that she could get dressed before they arrest her. Now, this is a small town, as we
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mentioned. One of the officers knew Deborah and apparently had known her for years. So,
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he agrees to allow her request. So, they're going to give her a moment to change out of her nightclothes. Now,
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Deborah shuts the door and within a minute, things change drastically. I'll say, they hear a couple of gunshots,
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which, of course, since the officers were there to serve this bench warrant uh for failure to show up in court on
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these charges, now they're going to break in through the door and investigate. And that's
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uh that's a pretty risky move. It it's just hard to imagine. They they knew this woman. She had a good reputation.
00:13:40
And they just never could have imagined that gunshots would have rang out from the house
00:13:45
in this situation. Yeah, one of the officers reported hearing two gunshots within approximately one minute of
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Deborah closing the door. Police Chief Lauser is the one who went upstairs and discovered two bodies. One of Deborah
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Sunstrom and the other was her beloved dog, an Australian Shepherd named Shadow.
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Both have been shot to death with a weapon that was found very close by, a .30-30 rifle. The other officer
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noticed that the house was on fire and yells to the chief to get out. Now, they managed to escape the fire,
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but they watched helplessly as the house burned. Apparently, leaving only the wraparound
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deck and a fireplace chimney near the front door. Firefighters saved a detached garage.
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Now, Deborah must have acted very fast after the door closed. Later, police said Deborah set the house ablaze, then
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she shot and killed her dog, Shadow, with one shot from that .30-30 rifle, and then with a second
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shot, she shot and killed herself. Now, once the fire was out and the smoke cleared, investigators have to go into
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the house and recover the woman's body, and this is when they get another surprise.
00:15:06
Yeah, they you know, they really tried to preserve this scene. They had firefighters from both Walton and Delhi
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coming by uh to try and put this fire out. And they just weren't able to put it out in time. In fact, the call from
00:15:20
the officers went out soon after that 2:00 p.m. time that they reported to the house. So,
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even with quick action, you can't always save a scene. Mhm. And uh with everything burned down like that, now
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they have to see what they can recover. But it's it's also been said that she may have set the fire as soon as she
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knew that they were there, uh even before she opened the door. Yeah, this is a situation where you really feel
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like she she had to believe that they would come for her at some point. And it it
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almost seems to me like too much has to be done in too little of amount of time that some of this had to to been put
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into action before they even knocked on the door. And we know that neither of the gunshots took
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place until after they had already spoke to her. So, you have to wonder how much
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was already set into motion before she ends up taking her life. And when was the decision made by her that that was
00:16:24
going to be the result should they come for her? I think we'll be able to answer
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that better after we cover more of the story. Of course, it it's somewhat speculation, but there may be some clues
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as to why she did what she did. So, what else in the house did they find when they were in there looking through
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the rubble trying to protect the scene? They spent more than a couple of days just going through this house because it
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was mostly burnt down. Now, they're just sifting through everything, essentially.
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But they end up finding the unidentified an unidentified man in what was the basement of the home, and he was
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situated where you could say the stair the stairs had gone down from the upper floor.
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So, they but they didn't know who this man was, and because Deborah, at least from all appearances, seemed to
00:17:21
have committed arson, shot her dog, and then shot herself, this is really out of character, at
00:17:27
least as far as anybody knew about her. So, now they're wondering, who's the man? Could it be Dominic Bosco?
00:17:36
You know, after all, it was his family's home, or it might also be that of Randy Sunstrom,
00:17:41
because heck, maybe she was lying that whole time. Yeah, and ultimately, it turns out to be
00:17:48
the body of Dominic Bosco. And it's believed that she, if she in fact was the one that killed
00:17:56
him, it's believed that he died one to three days before Deborah killed herself. It's
00:18:03
kind of a mystery, but on the other hand, they're just going by the last time anyone had heard from him. Mhm. And
00:18:11
they it so it's it involves some speculation. He did die, and then, of course, his body was
00:18:18
in a home that burnt down. So, it could be very difficult to get the answers that the investigators require. But
00:18:26
before they even identified, you know, whose body it was, they found something else interesting.
00:18:33
Because over the course of several days, they were searching this Bosco house, but they were also starting to search
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Deborah's own home. And there was a a state police investigator who used a cadaver dog to search around
00:18:48
her home. And the dog alerted to a sealed 55-gallon drum outside of the house. And
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when the investigator removed the lid, he found the moldering remains of a body. So, at that point, they had two
00:19:04
mysterious bodies. And I think all they knew at that point at that time was that
00:19:09
they were both men. That's it. Yeah, and I think this is pretty simple here, just
00:19:14
the search itself. You know, police are going to be tasked with trying to find Randy Sunstrom. Being that I mean,
00:19:22
technically, he and Deborah would still be legally married at this time. So, they're going to be looking for him.
00:19:30
I I don't know what kind of hunch that the police were working with, but it doesn't take
00:19:37
Albert Einstein to figure out, "Hey, we've she killed herself while in the process of us trying to serve a
00:19:43
warrant." She kills her dog, sets a house on fire. We find an unidentified body that turns out to be that of
00:19:51
Dominic Bosco, her her known to be boyfriend at the time. It's not really a leap here for them to
00:19:59
go out and get the proper search warrant for her home and then to bring a cadaver sniffing dog to the house with
00:20:07
them. And like you said, the dog hits almost immediately leading the handler to that 55-gallon
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drum. Molder, which is what moldering comes from, is slowly decay or disintegrate, especially
00:20:24
because of neglect. Going off of their statement, his body may have just been folded up
00:20:31
and placed in that barrel. Basically, just left there. It doesn't seem like she has applied anything to try to speed
00:20:41
up the process or or diminish the the odor or anything like that. Uh so, he's found
00:20:50
in a 55-gallon barrel. This is located behind the couple's garage. Now, keep in mind, he's been missing for like over
00:20:59
1,000 days at this time and and then ultimately, the body was hiding in plain sight just 25 to 30 paces from the back
00:21:08
door of the Sunstroms' home. Yeah, a neighbor reported that he mowed the lawn right next to that drum
00:21:16
many, many times and he had no idea. But that See, that's the thing is no one expected anything like this to happen
00:21:24
with Deborah. And so, I think that's why they wanted to search her home because they were
00:21:28
thinking, "Why would she shoot her dog and herself over this bench warrant? Because Sure,
00:21:36
you have law enforcement visiting your home to arrest you, but it wasn't as if they were going to arrest her for a
00:21:42
murder. This was for the theft of a pocketbook for a wallet." So, it just didn't make sense. So,
00:21:48
that's when their inner sense says, "There's something else going on here." Yeah, and
00:21:54
Deborah Sunstrom is really the only suspect in her husband's death. And the thing here, too, is we have Deborah
00:22:05
who she she got away with murder for like 3 years. And this is basically just because no one reported Randy as
00:22:14
missing. His parents had passed away by this point. And he was not in contact with
00:22:20
his two siblings, both of whom lived lived out of state. His few close friends believed Deborah's
00:22:29
story about him leaving her. And one of his friends is on record saying, "Look, I just thought maybe he was
00:22:37
embarrassed about taking off and that he would eventually reach out to me at some
00:22:43
point, but he never did." And then it's only in hindsight that his friend is saying,
00:22:49
"Wow, that much time passed and he never reached out to me. I should have I should have thought that something was
00:22:57
wrong here." Yeah, should have, but I think we need to give more credit to the fact that
00:23:02
Deborah had won people over. And and not for any kind of devious reasons or anything. It's just They were
00:23:11
together for 20 years. And over that time, people got to know her and they really liked her. She was
00:23:16
very personable. And so, why wouldn't she be telling the truth? But, you know, I'll often say when
00:23:23
someone goes missing and the only other person that may have known what had happened is saying, "Oh,
00:23:28
yeah, they just ran off." But then that person never contacts anyone else anyone else, I find it really,
00:23:34
really questionable. But then again, Deborah was personable and people liked her. And we know he'd already left his
00:23:43
own daughter behind before. So, why not his wife? Yeah, I think that probably would have added a lot of validation to
00:23:51
any skeptics out there that she was that Deborah was in fact telling the truth that he had done this before.
00:24:00
And I would imagine the people closest to him, the ones that would be concerned of his whereabouts, would be aware of
00:24:08
this story. So, it's not like it's not like this isn't something that he would not be capable of
00:24:16
because he in fact did the very same thing just at a much younger age. Now, you said that she got
00:24:22
away with murder for 3 years. Dr. James Turgeon, the pathologist, conducted the autopsies on
00:24:30
then the two unidentified bodies. He identified them. We already talked about that, but
00:24:36
for Dominic Bosco, he said he couldn't figure out his manner or cause of death. So, both were
00:24:44
listed as undetermined. So, Dominic Bosco, he is listed as cause of death undetermined,
00:24:52
manner of death be it homicide, accident, natural causes undetermined. Undetermined.
00:25:02
And then that, I guess you could say when we get to Randy Sunstrom, the manner of death was homicide,
00:25:10
but the cause was undetermined. Now, to me, this is interesting because he's saying he believes that Randy was
00:25:17
as a result of a homicide. I don't know if that's because of the the drum that he was found in,
00:25:24
but we don't really have any real clues as to how he was killed. What what I've seen from several of the cases that
00:25:31
we've covered is is this exact situation where the concealment of the body is leading him to
00:25:42
to the determination of a homicide. Where Dominic Bosco, you could make an argument that where he was found at the
00:25:51
what would have been the foot of the stairs to the basement, could have possibly he could have
00:25:57
fallen, he could have heart attack uh and just fell there. It The placement of that body is
00:26:08
is such a manner where it could have just he could have just died where he fell. Where we know in Randy's
00:26:14
situation, it wo- the the probability of him being in that barrel when he died of natural
00:26:22
causes is so incredibly mathematically damn near impossible that that is where we're getting the
00:26:30
determination of of homicide as well. It'd be I would be curious to see what else was in the barrel with him or
00:26:40
if there was even more evidence to push the pathologist to that determination. Yes, and I know that uh before we
00:26:49
recorded, we actually had a discussion about would there be any follow-up? And I know that these pathologists are kind
00:26:57
of stretched thin to begin with. And if I guess for the sake of argument, if Deborah
00:27:04
was responsible for these deaths, then with her death, who are you going to prosecute? I mean,
00:27:11
why spend the money or the time? Why do the follow-up if you really can't take this case anywhere?
00:27:18
Think about it this way. No one called on behalf of Randy the whole time he was missing.
00:27:25
No one. Not one person called any law enforcement uh department to say, "Randy Sunstrom is missing
00:27:34
and I want to file a report about it." No one did that. So, obviously, there's probably not a lot of
00:27:42
uh voices ringing out saying, "Do something about this. Figure out how he died."
00:27:47
Now, as far as Dominic Bosco, his parents, they didn't really want to talk about Deborah, and I'm not sure
00:27:54
why, but it could be that they just didn't see this coming and I think maybe they're lost for words.
00:28:00
Well, his family, I believe they were out of they were out of towners, and that was
00:28:07
kind of their like second home or retreat type of home where he was he had been staying. Apparently, he was really
00:28:14
into the outdoors and and enjoyed staying in this I saw one description where they called
00:28:21
it a cabin, but um I don't know that I would call it a cabin. But that's where we have this
00:28:29
difficult situation. So, we we have what we see to be technically unsolved, at least one unsolved homicide
00:28:40
as far as the ruling goes. But are these in fact closed cases where they believe everything points to
00:28:51
Deborah as being the murderer of both Dominic and Randy. She's no longer with us, died by her own
00:29:00
hand. In that manner, are these cases no longer open and closed, but technically still unsolved.
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love. That's betterhelp.com/garage. Betterhelp.com/garage. Well, it's one thing to know who
00:33:47
committed the murders, and I think the police know, at least in their own minds, that Deborah Sunstrom is the one
00:33:54
who killed both Dominic Bosco and Randy Sunstrom. But, I'm not sure it's that simple.
00:34:02
There might actually be reasons for why these murders were committed and why Deborah took her own life.
00:34:09
Well, let's get into that. And And what is your speculation as far as cause of death for Dominic and or Randy? I
00:34:18
honestly, you know, thinking about it, I couldn't come up with anything. Uh the only thing that I could say is we
00:34:25
might have to entertain many more possibilities given the fact that she was able to take her
00:34:33
pretty burly husband Randy and get him into a barrel, into this drum. Because that sounds like no easy feat.
00:34:41
He was kind of a big dude. I know people have said she was very strong, but that's that's a determined woman
00:34:48
right there to get this big guy into a drum. So, I think the sky's the limit. Now, obviously, they didn't find
00:34:55
anything obvious, but there could be many things here that could have been the cause of death
00:35:01
and I just can't really think other than to say I think we would have to include a lot of
00:35:07
possibilities. Well, we know it wasn't, or at least the pathologist does not believe that gun
00:35:15
that a gun was involved in either of their deaths because they found no bullets.
00:35:21
Just going off of playing the numbers, I feel like poison a poisoning is probably
00:35:28
a good consideration in maybe both of these cases. And if that if that is the case, then
00:35:36
we're talking about something very premeditated, especially if it was done twice. But,
00:35:42
also fast-acting. Because Randy's, you know, they always try to narrow down the time frame of when someone died.
00:35:51
Uh in Randy's case, as far as they can tell, he died about the time he disappeared.
00:35:57
And we know from uh Dominic's death that he appeared to have died one to three days prior. So,
00:36:05
that might also be a clue as to why he was killed. But, if it was a poison, it would have
00:36:11
to be fast-acting, I would think. Well, and because the house burnt down, the the pathologist is playing at a huge
00:36:21
disadvantage trying to figure out the cause and manner of death for Dominic. And really,
00:36:27
that that determination of him being dead one to three days is is, as you said, based off of when was
00:36:33
he last seen. I believe a lot of it to be from his work, what they could track through his work records
00:36:41
for that week or for that time period just shortly before his death. Yeah, the other interesting thing, and and we
00:36:47
didn't talk about this yet, but about close to two weeks before Dominic's death, or at least the time we
00:36:55
believe he died, she had informed his family that he lost his phone. So, if they
00:37:00
needed to get a hold of him, they should call her. But, he had a relative, I believe his
00:37:07
brother, after he heard about the house being on fire, he started calling both his brother and Deborah and couldn't get
00:37:15
a hold of either one, but then he wasn't sure because she had told him that he didn't have his phone
00:37:21
anymore. So, he could sort of understand why his brother didn't answer the phone,
00:37:27
but then Deborah wasn't answering hers, either. This is a very weird thing to me
00:37:32
because then you have to wonder if we are dealing with a poisoning or any form of premeditated murder
00:37:39
from Deborah killing Dominic. Was this planned before this phone call is made to her to
00:37:49
his relative explaining away the phone and why you would not be able to reach him by phone? Right, and that's what I
00:37:56
wondered. Was he still going to work? What was going on with him? Because if she was planning this weeks
00:38:04
out, which we could understand because that was about the time she had been served. She had been charged with these
00:38:10
offenses, but to me, I think she was already planning his death, if not already had him in an
00:38:17
incapacitated state or something. Because that's some real control there. Oh, yeah, don't call him because you
00:38:24
won't get a hold of him. His phone's gone. So, if she did kill both of them, why
00:38:30
what are the the the theories on on why? Because that's really what we're left with. I personally, I feel there
00:38:39
there are other answers. There are other questions that need to be answered. But, all all arrows seem to point to
00:38:47
Deborah in both of these cases. Now, somebody else could be involved. Maybe there are
00:38:53
other players here that we are unaware of, but what is the motivator? Why did she
00:39:00
do it? Why would she kill Randy? Why would she kill Dominic? And there's there's also
00:39:07
thought that it doesn't have to be for the same reason. And it seems very strange that this
00:39:14
stealing of a pocketbook cuz that seems to be what what's what started this domino effect.
00:39:23
That's the only thing that jumps off the page, but that just doesn't it doesn't ring true. It doesn't make sense. I
00:39:29
think it does in a way because the only thing that's weird about it is why did she take the pocketbook?
00:39:37
Was it just an opportunity where she didn't think she would be caught? Did she not know about the cameras?
00:39:43
But yes, this is what invited law enforcement into her life. We already accept that she likely killed
00:39:49
Randy. But no one followed up on that. So, she got away with that as you said. But why kill Dominic?
00:39:57
I think there is more of a complicated story here really. When they started asking her friends and
00:40:03
neighbors and family, "What were they like? What was this couple like?" And meaning Randy and Deborah. Well, a lot
00:40:11
of people said they were the perfect couple. They did everything together. They were
00:40:16
in love. They spent all their time together. They lived for gardening. But while that's true, other people started
00:40:24
saying, "Well, she told me that she had been abused by Randy." And then they would recount these stories like the one
00:40:31
you gave about Randy trying to break into the home and then being mad that she had locked him out and then him
00:40:37
hitting her. But in the end, a lot of people just said, "Well, that's what she told me."
00:40:42
They didn't have any first-hand accounts until they talked to their neighbor, which was Al Budin.
00:40:48
And hopefully I'm saying his name right, but Al Budin is the one that was mowing the lawn
00:40:54
right next to the drum for all that time. And he said that there were two separate incidents
00:41:00
where Deborah ran over to his home having been beaten by Randy and she was trying to
00:41:07
find refuge. She was trying to get away to be safe for a little while until things calmed down.
00:41:12
And he went on to say that there was even a report to the police about this after
00:41:18
one of those incidents. So, in his mind, the police should have known about this.
00:41:23
But see, who called the police? Because when the police were discussing this case,
00:41:29
they didn't think domestic violence was a part of this case at all. Right. They They thought it was
00:41:34
unrelated. Now, between you, me, and our great audience, I would say there's a real
00:41:42
possibility that domestic violence was involved. How well did anyone know Randy?
00:41:48
I mean, what would be her motive to kill him after 20 years where it seemed like
00:41:53
they were only getting closer? Now, we know he didn't run off and he didn't have a pregnant girlfriend.
00:41:59
We know that's not true. Mhm. But why did she murder him? There's a real possibility that she murdered him
00:42:05
because he was beating her. I mean, are we going to discount uh Al's story? I mean, unless he was in on it, I
00:42:12
I find his story pretty compelling. I do too. I do as well. I reading a couple different versions of
00:42:21
that same story, I I I wish that I was able to ask Al exactly what he saw and what he was told.
00:42:32
Because that's really his That's where his story is different than everybody else's.
00:42:37
If we are to go by that statement of she appeared to have been beaten when she arrived at his home asking for
00:42:45
help, that's much different than all these other stories where it's just it's just
00:42:51
Deborah relaying something that she says happened. Relaying actions of Randy's that she
00:42:58
says he did. So, yes, it's a very different story in that sense. I would love to
00:43:06
I would love to see if he could look me in the eye and say, "Yes, it's uh I that's what I saw."
00:43:12
Not that not that she was running from the house saying and telling him, "He's He's going to beat me."
00:43:19
The way that his statement comes off in that in the one article makes it sounds like the damage had already been done.
00:43:26
She had already been harmed by Randy before she went to Al for help. Yes, he used
00:43:33
the phrase beaten to hell. And so, we could have a situation where And that's what's so weird to me about,
00:43:41
you know, domestic violence violence isn't supposed to make sense. So, I don't know why I'm trying to make
00:43:48
sense out of it. But the the pictures that I saw of Deborah and Randy and the the lifestyle that they were were living
00:43:59
and the way that everybody spoke about them just makes the domestic violence so weird to me. It doesn't seem It's like
00:44:06
it doesn't fit. But again, if it was there, then maybe it was the quote-unquote family secret.
00:44:16
And that's how it works sometimes. I know I've had uh many people write in to Generation Why and say,
00:44:23
"No one knew about the abuse that was happening to me." And in some cases, they felt afraid to
00:44:28
say anything because they just knew that no one would believe them because the other person was so well-liked.
00:44:36
And in this case, it worked that way for both of them. If it was true that he was
00:44:40
beating his wife, then who would have believed it? And then he didn't really run away, but that's
00:44:47
what Deborah said and everyone bought it. It's all about perception, I guess, and
00:44:53
what you think you know. In the killing of Randy, do you believe that she acted alone?
00:45:03
It sounds like you have some suspicions of uh because of how the body was found.
00:45:10
Um once again, we're relying on Al. Al believes that she was more than capable of getting her husband into that
00:45:18
drum. Yeah, I think she she would outwork any man is the way he described her. Yeah, I don't know what it would take in
00:45:30
in But also, Randy is not described as being a small man. No, both of the men in her life uh
00:45:40
both Randy and Dominic or Nick as people knew him, they were both known to be pretty burly guys.
00:45:48
Uh and especially Dominic, he was described as a guy who could take care of himself.
00:45:52
And so, people said he must have been ambushed. They just didn't see how she would have
00:45:58
been able to harm him if he saw her coming. But I I think uh when it comes down to it
00:46:05
for me, um I I lean toward the domestic violence as being a real factor here. Um that's barring any other strange or
00:46:19
unexpected change in the relationship, of course, but to me, I could understand that being a part of this.
00:46:25
And then, why would she kill Dominic? Well, she decided to take that pocketbook for
00:46:30
some reason. I That's actually the biggest mystery to me. I'm not sure why she did that.
00:46:36
But I think she started to panic and she'd already murdered one man. And I think for her, she was hoping to
00:46:43
ride this out. So, she murdered her other man. And with the you know, the police chief and
00:46:51
his investigator coming to her home, well, to what was her boyfriend's home, I think she started to feel put into a
00:46:58
corner where she couldn't get out. And she was I guess more afraid of what would happen to her
00:47:06
than worried about what it would be like to take her own life. I think part of my my theory there rests
00:47:13
upon her killing her dog. Because apparently, she really liked Shadow. He was an Australian Shepherd,
00:47:19
which I don't know a lot about dogs, but from people I've talked with, they love this breed.
00:47:25
And I think it was a situation where she didn't want to leave her dog behind. I could see that. And actually,
00:47:33
the thing here that I I think always kind of threw me off on developing a good theory was the
00:47:40
situation of the house being burnt down. And but now I'm I'm almost wondering if if
00:47:47
she was in the process of doing that, whether the authorities were going to show up
00:47:53
anyway. And did she kill Dominic plan on burning the house to the ground? It Look, we know that it We know that it
00:48:04
already concealed his cause of death. So, if if she was planning to burn the house down to
00:48:12
to conceal his cause of death, who's to say she would have got charged with anything in Dominic's murder or
00:48:21
death? And where was she going to go? You know, I wonder I wonder if a lot of that stuff was already in motion, at
00:48:29
least planned out in her mind, and she happened to be it just happened to be that they knocked on the door before she
00:48:35
left that day. Before she lit the match and tossed it and and was able to drive off. Right, it's a
00:48:43
real question. Your theory makes total sense, but it's also the kind of theory that could throw
00:48:49
into question my theory. So, I don't like it. No, I'm just kidding. Um No, it's a great theory. Um
00:48:56
and it what But what it would do is you would say, "Maybe she had a different motive than
00:49:01
what I was thinking because if she was just trying to protect herself and she snapped and killed her husband because
00:49:08
she was tired of the abuse. And then she ended up killing her boyfriend because she made a mistake and
00:49:15
she was scared of what was going to happen." Well, that doesn't quite make as much
00:49:20
sense if what you say is possible and she was already planning to burn the house and then leave and then she could
00:49:27
say, "Oh, well, I don't know what happened." Right. Because as we know, the chances of
00:49:32
proving that she did anything wrong kind of get a little sketchy. So, you could have an arson investigator go in there
00:49:39
and prove it was arson, but maybe it's a 50/50 chance. But, if they go into the home and find a
00:49:48
dead man at the bottom of the stairs, well, at that point, she's looking at prison time.
00:49:53
Well, and I also like the thought that you put into about her shooting her dog, because I think that that is could be
00:50:03
some indicator of her motivation in some of this. And and I This is going down a
00:50:09
different road than the theory I already presented, but this was one that struck
00:50:14
me when looking into this case. Just the simple amount of Well, not the simple amount, the
00:50:23
overwhelming amount of of control on her behalf in this whole situ- Not only is Randy dead, but he's
00:50:31
concealed. Not only is Dominic dead, the house was burnt down. And she loved her dog. She could have
00:50:41
let the dog out the back door or let the dog run free instead of shooting the dog
00:50:46
and then shooting herself. And then, the amount of of control that you add to it with her
00:50:52
shooting herself. This is going to end the way I want it to or the way that in at least in a way that I can control the
00:51:00
outcome. And some people have speculated that Randy was not involved with his biological daughter
00:51:08
because maybe Deborah would not allow him to do so. And I wonder if we could have a
00:51:16
situation here where did Randy decide that he was going to leave Deborah for any reason? Maybe they were fighting.
00:51:23
Maybe Maybe it wasn't just one-sided abuse. Maybe there was abuse by both individuals. We even have the one story
00:51:31
that Deborah recounted saying that he hit me and I hit him back. Maybe Randy wanted to see his daughter
00:51:40
or maybe create some type of relationship there and Deborah wasn't going to have it or Deborah was not
00:51:46
going to put up with Randy leaving her. The Dominic thing, I think is more confusing to me about what the motive
00:51:54
is. And that's just simply because we don't know for certain what the motivation would have been to kill
00:52:02
Randy, but there's there's different things to look at and examine there. There's different thoughts and
00:52:09
speculation that you can apply to that murder. With Dominic situation, you're really only left with a couple of
00:52:18
things that make sense and that's either was this in some weird, super bizarre way
00:52:25
of covering up the whole pocketbook incident? That That just doesn't seem right. But,
00:52:32
then you could easily make the leap to going, well, could Dominic somehow have figured out
00:52:38
what happened to Randy? And that might be motivation enough for her to act. But, I keep going back to this whole
00:52:46
thing of if she did in fact kill both those men, she killed the dog, she set the house on fire, she took her own
00:52:51
life, there's just so much overwhelming an overwhelming amount of control on on her behalf. And that may be the only
00:53:01
truth we know of this case is we know from all of the evidence, the one thing that you can tie it all together with is
00:53:08
control. It's a case that that that opens itself up to more speculation than than information to provide. But, those
00:53:17
kinds of cases are interesting because sometimes, you know, it's like I was talking with someone today about zombie
00:53:23
movies. The best ones, the zombies are characters in the film, but they're not really the drive of the
00:53:30
film. There are these other storylines running that really grab your interest. And so, with cases like this, it's not
00:53:39
that someone was killed in a spectacular way. Heck, we don't even know how they were killed.
00:53:43
But, it's the motive. It's the why. And so, we're trying to figure out why did Deborah, who seeming seemingly had a
00:53:50
great life, had a great husband, why did she start to kill? And why did she ultimately decide to
00:53:57
kill herself? So, to me, it makes for very interesting conversation and for anyone listening, now they can start to
00:54:06
talk with their friends who listen and try to figure out what they think happened.
00:54:10
Well, and I think what adds a lot to this mystery, too, is it does not seem that
00:54:15
I don't want to paint the picture of Deborah and Randy being shut-ins. They were certainly outgoing people. I mean,
00:54:20
he was the founding president of that pumpkin society or whatever it was and they they participated in a lot of
00:54:27
county fairs and I imagine state fairs as well. So, they were certainly outgoing in in
00:54:35
in that aspect, but they don't seem to have a lot of close knit relationships with
00:54:42
with a lot of people. It seems like their circle of friends was was quite small.
00:54:50
And we see that that not only added to Randy's disappearance not being such a mystery or of concern,
00:55:00
but it also, I think, leaves a lot of blanks and a lot of gaps that we're kind of left wondering about
00:55:06
of what could have been actually going on in that relationship. Because you also have the thought of
00:55:13
it's a two-sided coin where you say, well, the allegations of abuse put forward by Deborah only come out after
00:55:20
Randy is no longer around to defend himself, but the flip side of that coin is if she was an abused woman, she wouldn't
00:55:28
have felt safe telling people about what was really going on. Well, she did tell her neighbor.
00:55:35
But, as far as we can tell, he was the one out of everyone that seemed to have gotten the closest to them
00:55:44
because he was right next door. They were always out gardening, he was out gardening.
00:55:49
They spent a lot of time outside together. Was Al the the gentleman that called himself their their pumpkin
00:55:56
mentor or was that a different friend? Cuz they had somebody that like taught him the the secrets of growing these
00:56:02
giant fat pump- pumpkins. No, it was uh Bill Beaubier, I think his name was. He was the one
00:56:10
that was their pumpkin mentor. So, he was the other one. So, their two closest friends
00:56:17
were Al Budine and Bill Beaubier. Well, and in one situation that we can talk about of somebody doing the right thing,
00:56:26
in in an ironic twist, Randy's daughter, Mindy Lackey, says law enforcement told her she was
00:56:33
the legal next of kin, so she had the responsibility to take care of her father, Randy's body. Now, initially,
00:56:42
Mindy said it really threw her for a loop. She didn't know what to do. She says, quote, "I could have said he
00:56:49
wasn't there for the 23 years of my life, so why should I be there for him?" But, adds, "That's just not who I am. I
00:56:58
have a bigger heart than that." So, she did the right thing. Mindy organized a proper send-off
00:57:05
for the stranger who was her father. This included a proper military burial at Sullivan County Veterans Cemetery.
00:57:15
And I like that because so often in life, we can just say, "Well, no one cared about me."
00:57:21
But, you know, nothing ever gets better. Nothing ever gets set right if someone doesn't sacrifice their own time or set
00:57:29
aside their own feelings. I mean, life's not fair. I My mom has always told me that. So, it's nice to
00:57:35
see when someone can say, "Yeah, my dad, he didn't care about me. He was never there for me.
00:57:42
But, I'm the only one left to try and handle his affairs, to help put him to rest." And she did that. So,
00:57:49
wow, I mean, all respect to Mindy. Yeah, they often say that the harder thing to
00:57:54
do and the right thing to do are the same. And that's this situation here. She didn't have to give up her time or
00:58:06
maybe even some of her own money or regardless, but her efforts. She didn't need to make that effort for a guy that
00:58:13
made little to no effort on her behalf for so many years, but like you said, it's
00:58:19
you do the right thing, break the cycle. She knows what it feels like more than anybody else to not be feel not to feel
00:58:26
wanted. And I think that she was wise enough and and had a big enough heart to say, "You know what? I'm going
00:58:37
to do what I think is right here and I'm going to take care of this man in death
00:58:45
even though he wasn't there for me." And you know, Dominic Bosco, he was laid to rest by
00:58:51
his family and they talked about him and about how they wanted him to re- be remembered rather
00:58:57
than this almost forgotten victim of Deborah's uh you know, in in their minds, he was a
00:59:05
hard worker, he was an honest guy, he was not afraid to tell the truth no matter what. They said he would stand up
00:59:11
to anything. He would face anything. And they said they were going to miss him. Yeah, and he's the only one out of the
00:59:18
three that is accused of nothing. And like you said, hard worker and he may have just simply crossed
00:59:27
paths with the wrong woman at the wrong stage of in her life. You know, I I I've been wondering if things were
00:59:35
really coming in on her. The walls were closing in. I wonder if she had said something.
00:59:42
Maybe they got into an argument. What if she said to him, "Yeah, keep talking. You'll end up like
00:59:47
Randy." Right. And then he said, "Oh, yeah? What happened to Randy?" And then she thought,
00:59:54
"Damn." Mhm. He was found at the bottom of the stairs. And like you said, it's difficult to figure out what happened to
01:00:02
him. But given everything that occurred and everything that we know, it's not a stretch to say
01:00:09
that the stairway had something to do with his death, whether he was poisoned or pushed or hit in the head or
01:00:15
something. Something happened to him that was probably foul play. And unfortunately, with all the key
01:00:23
players involved all now deceased, we may never know what really happened. There's also the possibility that there
01:00:31
things about this case that we haven't thought of. Well, this is one that's going to keep
01:00:35
me up tonight. Absolutely, because to me, domestic violence is something that is often behind closed doors. We
01:00:44
don't know about it. But the people who are suffering, they have to live with it. They have to
01:00:49
suffer through it. And if this was the case with Deborah, we have no idea how domestic violence
01:00:56
may have shaped her future. Yes, and real quick before we wrap up here tonight, Aaron, I do want to mention
01:01:04
so this episode of True Crime Garage will come out just before Independence Day.
01:01:11
And shortly after Independence Day, we will have the our better halves, if you if you will, or our equal halves. I
01:01:21
don't know what we should call them. But Justin and the Captain will be doing an episode on Generation Y on the
01:01:29
Generation Y podcast. Yeah, it's really funny when we had paired up before, we had talked about switching hosts
01:01:36
again. But then in the end, it turned out that all we did was we decided to keep the
01:01:42
same hosts together for the swap, but then release the episodes on the other podcast. So
01:01:48
Yeah. we're recording together again, but this time our recording will be on True Crime
01:01:52
Garage. And then the Captain and Justin, their episode will be on Generation Y. Well, and it's a really fun friendship
01:02:01
and relationship that the four of us have developed over the years. And it was great seeing you and Justin at Crime
01:02:09
Con. And it was great that somebody was brilliant enough to put our two tables in close proximity to one another
01:02:17
because we do have so many people we share a lot of listeners. And um you guys do a fantastic show.
01:02:24
And it's it's been been a lot of fun talking these cases over with you. Oh, absolutely. And it's always a pleasure
01:02:32
to talk with you. Well, thanks for coming and joining me in the garage tonight, Aaron. You have a
01:02:38
fantastic evening. Yeah, have a great evening, Nick. Thank you to Aaron from the Generation Y
01:03:00
podcast for joining me via satellite for this week's show. And make sure you check out the Generation Y podcast this
01:03:06
weekend because our good friend the Captain joins Justin for a fantastic conversation. Check that out. Also, make
01:03:15
sure you check out the Stitcher app. It's absolutely free. It has all of our old episodes on there. And if you want
01:03:22
more of Nick and the Captain, check out our other show Off the Record, available
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today. And thanks again to Aaron from the Generation Y podcast. And thank you to all of you out there for listening
01:04:56
and telling a friend. Until next time, be good, be kind, and don't litter.