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subject to credit approval see store or ashley.com for details [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage Wherever
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You Are whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me
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as always is a man who knows that podcasting is a battle that is won in the trenches here is the captain
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podcasting will make your life go into the trenches it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening
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thanks for telling a [Music] friends we are still sipping on some fantastic Midwest IPA by the Great Lakes
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sign up on our mailing list and Colonel that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair
00:02:47
grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime when we left off yesterday Captain we
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were talking about a situation where we have 21-year-old Johnny Clark and he's staying at his 20-year-old girlfriend's
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home Lisa strob the home technically belongs to Lisa's parents who are away on a
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vacation so not only are they staying there but as everyone States they're also housesitting while the stobs are
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gone we left off at the point on our timeline where Johnny's parents have been notified by a woman named Tiffany
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Williams Tiffany Williams is 24 years old and she is an air quotes friend of Johnny's and Lisa's and she through
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another person alerted Johnny's parents of a couple of situations that occurred that night one that she was on the phone
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with Johnny Clark at about 10:41 that night and that she had heard what sounded to be a disturbance that Johnny
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sounded like he was interacting with somebody didn't know what was going on and it might be a situation she is then
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saying that after about two hours she decides to drive out to the st's home and check on her friends Johnny and Lisa
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and by getting no response at the door and getting no response on their cell phones she now has alerted Johnny's
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family that she's concerned and she thinks that something is wrong where we left off yesterday Johnny's parents are
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at the location they're on scene police have been called twice M Johnny's mother
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called police 911 twice and they sent out Lucas County Sheriff's Office on two occasions back to back Lucas County
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observes the situation takes a look at the house they knock on the door they shine their
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flashlights they see no probable cause and they have no probable cause to enter the home nobody body present after
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receiving those calls can give Authority for the authorities to go into the home
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now one thing that's very interesting here is that before the police leave the scene the Sheriff's Office deputies
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leave the scene for what is now a second time one of the officers pulls Johnny's
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Father John to the side and says look man not being a cop here father to father I can't tell you to do
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anything but if this were my son and he was staying at his girlfriend's home and
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I'm arriving to this scene I would wait for the police to leave and I would bust into the house to
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see what's going on now the officer is saying this and and the reason why I think that this is
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important to note here is some people have said well I don't understand why the police wouldn't just go in they
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can't just bust into a home without probable cause it's called the law now the other thing
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too is they cannot just tell Johnny's parents yeah break a window and go in they they cannot witness a crime they
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cannot encourage a crime to take place they cannot witness a crime and then do nothing about it so this guy's saying
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man to man father to father and here's why I believe that this Officer says this when they all arrive on the scene
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here's what we got going on Captain yeah the stobs the parents Lisa's parents who are
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gone they they own three vehicles okay two of those vehicles are in the driveway of this home nobody's answering
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the door Johnny's Father John is quite the strong guy he's a bit of a bodybuilder good-sized man so when the
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police are on the scene he actually physically is able to lift up the garage door just enough that one of the cops
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gets his head down there look looks in and inside the garage they see the other St vehicle along with Lisa st's car
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inside the garage as well Johnny does not have his own vehicle at this time so what's weird is the two youngsters
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Johnny and Lisa who are staying there and house sitting all their means of transportation are there present at the
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home there's no vehicles missing from the home and then you compound that with Tiffany Williams saying earlier at 10 41
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p.m. I'm on the phone with Johnny and he's saying what are you doing bro who are you bro as if that there's some kind
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of commotion at the house and I'm very thankful that this officer encouraged the Clarks to do something to
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take matters into their own hand so what the Clarks do they leave when the cops leave when the sheriff's department
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leaves they follow them out of the neighborhood and then the police go one way and the Clarks go another way they
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drive around for a bit just long enough to make sure that the sheriff's department is gone from the property and
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then they come back the Clarks just don't bust in break a window bust into the house they have a member of their
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family that is there that is a service member in our in our military serving this great country who says look I
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either I need to leave before you bust into the house cuz I don't I can't afford to get into trouble I have a rank
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and a job and everything let's let's give us reason to bust into the house so they're going around and
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they're looking in the windows they can't see anything because all of the blinds are closed now around the
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backside of the home you know those windows Captain where you have the uh the ark at the top so it's not your
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standard rectangle or square window it is on the bottom but at the top there's an there's a glass Arc a window
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pane this portion of this window in the back of the home there's no blinds up there often
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there is not when you have that kind of decorative window but there are blinds on the lower portion of it so one cannot
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see into the home this is a window that goes to the kitchen so what they decide because there's several of the Clark
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Clan there if you will they decide to boost one of the lighter individuals up remember John Clark is quite the strong
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man he's going to lift up one of the other family members who now can look into the home through that window pane
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without the blind on top or without any coverings this person sees two individuals lying on the
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floor inside with bags on their heads and they appear to be bound now seeing that witnessing
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that will now ignite a new fire and that is a third 911 call from Johnny's mom m to emergency
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services oh my God you need to get the police out longer Lane my son is in the basement tied up of this house I just
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saw him through the window I the police out here earlier and did absolutely nothing both cell phones are on the
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ground and we can see the people him and his girlfriend are tied up in the basement okay all right we'll get them
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out there get them CS out here I told them you need to calm down we'll get them out there but yelling at me is UNC
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they're unconscience ma'am oh okay you said they're unconscious yes okay all right cell phones on their we're cell
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phones on their body CL pants on she only has pants on and my hands are died okay all right we're get
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them out there ma'am oh my God I need you to call down we'll get him out there okay oh my God please hurry all right we
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will long acor okay long acor Lane I have the address we'll get them out there goodbye seems so ridiculous that these
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dispatchers are so concerned about somebody staying calm or not raising their voices
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at at them but uh this obviously will give police probable cause to enter the the property which they're not going to
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need because what happens here is when you hear M on the phone with the dispatcher and you hear that she's kind
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of you know they're tied up they're unconscious cell phones on their bodies he's only got pants on the pants
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are tied right sh the reason why she's saying it and delivering it that way to the dispatchers because she's not seen
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any of this with her own eyes remember they had to lift a family member or some other person that was there up into the
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air hoist them up to see inside of the home she is relaying what is being told it that scene is being described to her
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and then she's immediately describing it to Emergency Services on the phone right
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so that that will explain her kind of odd delivery because this is news to her as she's telling Emergency Services
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meanwhile while she's on the phone trying to get the police back out there and ambulance
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now John after he hears what's going on inside the house he Sprints around to the front of the home and with a single
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kick Dam near Kicks Down the front door of this house house he runs inside to the kitchen area now remember we hear M
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saying that they're in the basement she she doesn't know exactly what room that they're looking into they've never the
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the Clarks Johnny's parents have never been inside this home before and so John the father runs in he
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finds two person's bodies lying in the kitchen and he rips the the bag instinctively and rightfully so rips the
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bag off of one of the individuals and unfortunately it is his son who is still unconscious
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unresponsive and then he rips the bag off of what would be clear to him is Lisa's head right and gets the same
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result and he then says that he he went to go outside that he needed to get out of
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there he gets out he goes outside and on his way out or once he's outside right now things are moving very quickly and
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the parents are are completely in shock so their statements it's a little unclear how these things panned out or
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played out and it's not really important in my opinion but what we do know is at
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some point he he runs outside and he says he just loses his mind he doesn't he doesn't even know what reality is for
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a while and he says that at some point either on his way out of the home or on or once outside of the home he tells his
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wife what it is that he witnessed maybe he says something like Johnny's gone or Johnny's dead to which she then faints
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right so that's what takes place shortly like immediately after this 911 call and
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so what we have at this scene is we have we now know it's Johnny we you know it's
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Lisa it seems like they were bound and then their plastic bags were placed over their heads but do we have
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anybody seeing do we see any type of blood or what else are we seeing at the scene well we'll go through we'll go
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through the evidence and through the what they were able to witness at the crime scene
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but one thing we need to point out here too is that did we play the second call what was that no so after M's
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call Tiffany Williams who's still at the scene she then calls and makes a very brief call to 911 and she's stating very
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much of the same that was just stated by M Clark right so she has a very brief conversation with the dispatcher and at
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this point the the police emergency services are already in route and it's surprising that uh Tiffany hasn't left
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at this point because at some point there's kind of accusations coming her way as far as like why did it take you
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so long to react to them not answering their phones and then you know they're at the crime they're at the
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scene trying to figure out what's going on then you have Johnny's mom saying hey
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are you involved in this did you set my son up with something and just so everybody can
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follow along with our timeline here the report I have Captain states that that third and final 911 call from M comes in
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at approximately 3:50 a.m. so obviously the whole family is in a State of Shock it's
00:17:00
hysteria then law enforcement comes back onto the scene and obviously now they're
00:17:06
able to enter the property yeah and we've reviewed a lot of cases where Emergency Services have have told us
00:17:13
that if if they can get to a scene and someone has for a lack of better term expired 15 20 30 minutes
00:17:22
prior to their arrival that they've they've witnessed and been a part of situations they are able to actually
00:17:30
save that person's life bring them back and I'm including that because it's important to our timeline to narrow down
00:17:38
the time of death for our victims here now what we have here Captain is John gains as we said John gains entry to the
00:17:48
home he discovers Lisa and John that are they're both bound at the hands and neck
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with plastic bags over their heads he instinctively rips the bag off off of his son's head to expose his face but
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gets no response John then moves to Lisa and does the same only to get the same sad outcome she too is not responding
00:18:09
deputies from the Lucas County Sheriff's Office respond to the scene yet again this time along with firemen short
00:18:16
shortly behind them who will perform life-saving efforts but tragically this is to no avail the two youngsters have
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been out for far too long and they are officially gone at this point in our timeline sources report that when the
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bodies were discovered that Johnny's head was facing west with his hands and feet bound with
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black duct tape and the same black duct tape was used to seal the bag at his neck Lisa was found Facing East her
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hands were bound behind her back with duct tape with the same similar bag as uh what was found on Johnny and the same
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duct tape tightly wrapped around her neck as well now one difference between the two victims here is her legs were
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not bound so when you hear in the 911 call from M saying he's only wearing pants and the pants are
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tied what she's trying to say is that his legs are bound like they use the tape to bind up his him at the ankles
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right and so he's wearing sweatpants so this black duct tape would have been obvious to them even from outside
00:19:35
looking from perched above that that Arc pane window window pane and Lisa is not
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bound at the legs now she did say that you know he's only wearing pants well they have an obstructed View and the
00:19:53
crime scene the reason why there's an obstructive view is because they're found in the kitchen and from there
00:19:58
Vantage Point some items that will be in the way will be the kitchen table as well as some of the table the table and
00:20:06
chairs okay so what they cannot see is actually both of them are fully clothed both of the victims are fully clothed
00:20:16
however the their shirts are bunched up toward the top of their bodies and so it appeared that he has no
00:20:25
shirt on from looking out side looking in now as said both their shirts appear to
00:20:34
have ridden up to expose their stomachs but investigators noted that this did not seem to be in any way or any form of
00:20:43
sexual assault or any type of sexual way but rather because as it would appear to
00:20:50
investigators both victims were moved after having been bound so they were dragged and and the
00:20:58
victim's shirts then bunched up to their chest right as a likely result of someone or very likely especially in
00:21:06
Johnny's case someone's dragging the victims across the floor to Stage them or place them in
00:21:14
the kitchen and I say some ones because look I get it you're dragging someone and that that takes away some of the
00:21:21
weight here but Johnny's 5'1 205 pounds so he's not a small boy um it probably I
00:21:30
would I would wager a Franklin Captain it took two to move him so I think we're looking
00:21:36
for at minimum two perpetrators in this horrific horrific crime ran like you said we don't have evidence of sexual
00:21:45
assault but do we we were told earlier that the house looked like it was ransacked do we have evidence
00:21:53
that the mo the motive might might have been uh burglary here here your spot on here Captain because still to this
00:22:03
day this this horrible crime takes place very early 2011 we're sitting here in the garage
00:22:13
2023 and it's unclear to this day what exactly the motive was now as we get through this I think that
00:22:24
our listeners will see and maybe share the same opinion that we have that there might be more than one motive at play
00:22:32
here now especially if we are to consider that we may have more than one perpetrator so some more details from
00:22:40
the crime scene an empty wallet is placed on Johnny's bare stomach this would turn out to be his wallet some
00:22:48
have suggested that the wallet left in this manner by the killer was as if to send a message both victims displayed
00:22:56
signs of Patia on their faces it was very clear to Lucas County Sheriff's investigators that a struggle
00:23:03
had taken place now listen to this level of damage inside here Captain level of damage inside the stob home per the
00:23:11
police reports there was broken drywall a clock torn off the wall a plant knocked over and then there were many
00:23:19
many to say many items were scattered about is to put it very conservatively right it also became increas ly clear to
00:23:28
authorities that the garage was the most likely must have been the point of access for the Intruder or Intruders to
00:23:38
get inside of the home and here's why there was damage to the interior service door or as longtime listeners of this
00:23:47
show know that I like to call it the man door meaning this is the door that the people walk through not the door that
00:23:54
the cars go through right so there there's signs of forcible entry into the home and they're getting that from the
00:24:03
man door from garage to the inside of the home they're not getting that from the garage
00:24:11
door the garage was closed when police first arrived on the scene the garage was closed when Johnny's family's on the
00:24:19
scene remember dad had to lift up the garage door the car door so that the deputy could look
00:24:27
inside and see that there were two more cars inside the garage so this is indicative that whoever decided to bust
00:24:39
into the home or intrude into the home the garage door was either open for them to receive them or was already open
00:24:50
when they approached the home they only had to bust into the man door and they were so kind and enough to
00:24:58
close the garage door before leaving the [Music] property this show is sponsored by
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00:28:00
thank you Captain now this is very likely protocol for a double homicide in most jurisdictions in the state of Ohio
00:28:08
I'm not certain about this jurisdiction in particular so this is either protocol
00:28:13
or simply the investigators realizing that they need additional expertise for this case and this crime scene that
00:28:21
appears to have a lot going on Lucas County Sheriff's Office detectives they rather quickly contact the Ohio Bureau
00:28:30
of Criminal Identification and investigation or BCI for short for their assistance in this case so now we have
00:28:38
BCI there to assist in processing this crime scene as observed by the Lucas County Sheriff's Office when BCI had
00:28:49
arrived we we get special agent supervisor Ed bead who notices that the crime scene
00:28:56
does not only show signs of force or forcable entry signs of obvious struggle but
00:29:03
now this officer is saying we need to include that this house appears to have been ransacked and
00:29:13
I mean let's say very ransacked because I've seen the pictures very ransacked if
00:29:17
we were to try to discuss levels of ransacking yeah we'll try to post as many photos about this case and the people
00:29:28
involved obviously and and those are you can always find those on our social media so we have to put it short and
00:29:36
sweet we have cabinets that have been opened drawers pulled out as if as if someone's searching for something now in
00:29:44
the master bedroom the mattress was pulled completely off of the box spring uh as if to reveal anything potentially
00:29:51
hidden under the mattress in the walk-in closet we have clothing that is you know torn from the hangers and
00:30:00
thrown all over the floor but but question for you because sometimes when we have uh house that quote unquote
00:30:08
looks rans sacked is it staged to look that way to to throw law enforcement off of what the possible motive of this
00:30:18
crime would be yeah and we have a a dresser that's overturned a panel leading to the attic spaces is open and
00:30:26
as said there's Dam Dage to the drywall uh significant damage in areas of the home to the drywall and this is
00:30:33
one could be both clear sign of struggle usually it is but we usually cover cases
00:30:41
where there's not this level of ransacking going on inside the home and so I want to point out something here
00:30:47
too that the destruction to some of the drywall could be happen stance from a struggle look
00:30:56
Johnny was was a tough kid if with with these Intruders he's not going to just allow them to just
00:31:04
walk into the home he's going to put up a fight so there's our struggle but on top of that
00:31:12
with all this ransacking keep in mind some of this damage to the drywall may be part more part of the rans
00:31:19
sacking than just that struggle it also makes you wonder because like you said we have we have two victims so do we
00:31:26
have two perpetrators or do we have even more than two we also find out that Lisa's purse had been emptied and
00:31:34
Johnny's wallet was empty as well strangely however there was jewelry that was in plain
00:31:40
sight and some have stated that this was overlooked but I I don't think that it was
00:31:46
overlooked because it one description we get is that a jewelry box was opened to
00:31:51
expose the jewelry and for whatever reason they decided not to take anything that they saw all there we also end up
00:31:59
learning that something that was in the home prior to the homicides and remain there
00:32:07
afterward was six envelopes containing foreign currency right so whoever is responsible they take Lisa's money
00:32:21
Johnny's money if he had any but they pass up the jewelry they pass up other valuables inside the home
00:32:30
TVs computers things of that nature and they pass up the foreign currency as well
00:32:38
were they able to talk to Lisa's parents and was there any idea of uh maybe a special item that these individuals
00:32:47
might have known that they had that they were looking for because also like you can't
00:32:53
discount uh a robbery if there are things missing but like for example you see foreign
00:33:00
currency a criminal might go what am I going to do with that I'm I'm going to have to try to find a way to exch
00:33:08
exchange that into our currency mhm uh or they see jewelry what am I going to do with that right where's the value
00:33:17
there for me right and and look you can sell those items but now involving another person
00:33:27
you're putting yourself at a higher risk level of getting caught getting apprehended and so when I see a scene
00:33:36
like this it's confusing though right it's it's confusing and you're right to point out it was it made to be
00:33:43
confusing was there staging here you know it's not uncommon husband kills wife or wife kills husband out in their
00:33:52
home and they ransack the place or or make it look to to be ransacked now what's what's interesting though is
00:34:02
detectives and cops are pretty good at seeing a scene and knowing when somebody is doing something just to do it or when
00:34:11
somebody's doing something that they've done before you know they can look at a scene
00:34:18
at times and go you know what this looks like whoever was air quotes ransacking the house didn't really know what they
00:34:24
were doing almost like they were doing it purposely to confuse the scene right that doesn't seem to be the case
00:34:33
here we never get any investigators saying like we think that this was a staged scene this place looked like you you let
00:34:41
loose a pack of wolverines inside the house and they tore it all up yeah but also because of things that you
00:34:50
mentioned like the mattress being turned over or the I think you were saying like
00:34:55
the Attic entrance mhm to me that goes again was there something that these people thought was at this property that
00:35:06
they were trying to find and wouldn't we know this information from Lisa's parents every closet that had a door in
00:35:14
that home the door was found open as if somebody went through the home looking in every nook and cranny for something
00:35:22
and this is where things start to get really weird because the first people that
00:35:28
you're going to talk to are family and friends of the two victims and one thing that they start to find within some of
00:35:35
those circles is this thought or some kind of rumor that there was potentially a safe in the home
00:35:46
containing large amounts of cash right now we have the stobs who thankfully can tell us a
00:35:57
couple things and Captain you know it what's one of my favorite things to discuss in these cases because it is
00:36:03
often most times the most important detail of these crime scenes transference of
00:36:11
evidence the Intruder the killer the perpetrator will almost always leave something at the crime scene knowingly
00:36:18
or unknowingly that could lead you back to him or her and almost always will take something with them knowingly or
00:36:27
unknowingly right that you can link perpetrator to Crime so in this situation the stobs tell us a couple
00:36:35
things one we do not own a safe two we don't keep large amounts of cash in our home in fact they tell the police the
00:36:46
only money that would have been in the home aside from some change jars would have been $40 or $45 that
00:36:54
they left for Johnny and Lisa to order pizza one night or two nights that's the only money that they said that they had
00:37:05
in the home now transfer of evidence goes the other way too so what do we have missing from
00:37:12
the scene we have that $445 if if Johnny and Lisa didn't spend it prior right we have Lisa's money okay
00:37:22
keep in mind what did she work that night we know she worked as a server at the restaurant that night
00:37:27
usually they walk away cash in hand and so we can assume we can make the logical assumption that whatever
00:37:36
money she took home with her from her work that night was taken and then we know Johnny's wallet was found empty so
00:37:43
whatever money he may have had that was gone that was gone as well but there's a possibility if that if law
00:37:52
enforcement is saying hey it looks like these guys were looking for possibly a safe that it's possible that they're at
00:38:03
the wrong residence oh it's most certainly possible I mean that when I hear this thought that there's a safe in
00:38:09
the home and it could be a huge mistake you know you instantly think of In Cold Blood who was at the Clutter
00:38:20
family that's killed because these two criminals in while they're in prison they hear this bad rumor that that the
00:38:29
family had a a safe with $10,000 cash in it decades and decades ago when $10,000
00:38:35
was a whole heck of a lot of money much more than it is today and they go in they kill the whole
00:38:40
family no safe right we covered the Cheshire murders now those two horrible monsters
00:38:51
subhumans they claim that they believe because it was a rich wealthy neighborhood
00:38:57
that they were they believed that they would find a lot of money inside the home and that maybe even a safe and a
00:39:03
lot of valuables they don't find that people don't live that way today most people walk around with cards right
00:39:11
plastic and the and I said it I made my point very clear on the Cheshire murders
00:39:17
when we covered I believe that Cara sesi and those perpetrators I think that that
00:39:23
that rape and murder was as much if not more of a driving factor to them than the potential of finding large sums of
00:39:31
money well no and and also sometimes people are house poor you know where they they have a big house and all their
00:39:40
finances Go to paying for that house they don't have extras unfortunately I'm garage poor me too but your garage is a
00:39:49
little bigger than mine we got a couple of other things going on at the scene though captain that we need to get to we
00:39:54
have two knives that are missing from the the block that would be in the kitchen right and we know that duct tape
00:40:03
was found on our victims Lisa's parents tell police we didn't have any black duct tape in our
00:40:10
home and so now we know that the killers did bring something with them right and
00:40:18
Beyond the money just the cash they took something with them as well now the bags
00:40:24
a little more difficult I think the are pretty common bags and I believe that the stobs said that they were of the
00:40:32
belief that the bags would have been found in either in the garage or somewhere in their
00:40:37
home so now we got to deal with this duct tape and that's really interesting here
00:40:45
so what we have let's talk about these items did not have any duct tape present at the home according to the stops so it
00:40:53
must have been brought with them to the scene now some have said that this may imply
00:40:59
premeditation yes of course yeah but premeditation of what murder robbery torture I think it's too early in our
00:41:09
investigation to conclude premeditation of what now one of the investigators collects a Newport cigarette butt found
00:41:16
in the hallway by the door to the garage that lead the man door leading to the garage nobody in the family is a smoker
00:41:24
nobody in the family is a smoker and then on top of that yeah according to Tiffany Williams they were going to come
00:41:31
over and hang out at the house and and you know not really a party according to Tiffany Williams four people just
00:41:36
hanging out at the house they weren't the stobs had a strict rule against that but they also had a strict rule against
00:41:43
smoking in the home nobody was permitted to smoke in the home and as we just covered there's no smoker that lives
00:41:50
there so this Newport cigarette butt is going to become just as important as the
00:41:56
duct tape that was found on our victims well because like you said there's so much rans sacking that you have to now
00:42:03
you're going to be testing for fingerprints and you're going to be testing for DNA but some
00:42:11
evidence that we're going to have to go through you know as far as law enforcement is going to have to go
00:42:16
through at the scene is what happened to these two victims we know that they were
00:42:21
bound and we know that there was bags placed on their head we know they're dead but how did they
00:42:28
die yeah so the Bia is going to be one of the telltale signs of what may have happened to them and I say may have
00:42:38
happened to them because when once we get the medical examiner report it's a little
00:42:43
inconclusive so it's both deaths ruled a homicide no doubt about that what becomes a
00:42:51
problem and not a major one but something that is undetermined is that they can could not tell if they
00:43:01
died from xixia from the bag being placed over their heads or from the tightness of the duct tape
00:43:10
around their necks so maybe it may have been a combination of both to put it short and and not sweet at all they died
00:43:18
of lack lack of oxygen both of them and one thing that is unique about this case and I think
00:43:29
it's usually important not always but I I think here given the crime scene and what we're seeing at the crime scene and
00:43:36
some things that we've hinted on already here Captain is there was some concern to try to determine who died
00:43:44
first and they were not able to conclusively figure that part out now what the crime here's what the crime
00:43:53
scene is telling the experts that some kind of struggle with Johnny went down either outside just inside of or at
00:44:06
that man door right the service door leading from the garage to the home so signs of a struggle there and they they
00:44:14
believe that struggle took place between Johnny and The Intruders That's How The
00:44:19
Intruders gained entry into the home now unfortunately no look none of these cases are easy to talk about none of the
00:44:27
details are easy to talk about but what the crime scene indicators are telling the investigators
00:44:33
is that when this is happening when the commotion is heard by Lisa she tries to run and
00:44:43
hide so she runs upstairs to the upper level to her room closes and locks the door behind her and it's believed that
00:44:53
she attempted to hide underneath her bed The Intruders go up the stairs kick in her
00:45:02
door and drag her from out underneath of that bed unfortunately a couple of things could
00:45:11
have happened differently that that may have saved at least Lisa had she fled out a another exterior
00:45:21
door rather than flee to her her room yeah um there was a fire escape upstairs that she could have potentially gone out
00:45:30
of and her cell phone unfortunately was found was believed to be in another part
00:45:36
of the home so she flees up to her room with no chance of calling anybody for help while she's in there
00:45:44
now look we this case sucks I don't mean to scare anybody but we do get these false senses of security right like we
00:45:52
we close our bedroom doors at night because we're told as children that if there were to be a fire that you can you
00:45:57
can check the touch the door knob and see if it's hot it will prevent smoke from coming large amounts of smoke from
00:46:04
coming into your room lock the lock the door so that you have one more barrier between you and a an and an intruder
00:46:11
into your home those doors those bed our bedroom doors they're not strong they're
00:46:17
rarely are they even solid doors they're usually Hollow doors speak for yourself
00:46:21
mine are solid doors in most cases Captain they are Hollow that are easily easy to kick in number one cardb exactly
00:46:31
or I I've seen a I've seen people punch right through them for forget about kicking through one or using your body
00:46:37
to throw into the door she did she went into flight mode she's 20 years old man she's a
00:46:47
little kid she's a kid she she did what a kid would do you see you see something
00:46:52
that you don't understand that scares the hell out of you and and she she attempted to run and hide from it yeah
00:46:59
there's a if I'm law enforcement the the call that the friend hears Johnny say bro what are you doing to me that points
00:47:09
to one individual but we we again we don't know did he see one individual and then the next individual made themselves
00:47:16
known after that after the disconnection of that call but because there's two victims and like you said I mean
00:47:25
Johnny's on a small guy you have to move that individual the amount of rans sacking in the house this again it
00:47:33
points to it at least two mhm you know I I don't think if you're law enforcement
00:47:39
you can rule out the possibility that there's even more than that uh because you have to then
00:47:46
bound the these individuals and that would be very difficult and we don't have any evidence if the intruder had a
00:47:56
gun or not so again sometimes you can control multiple victims by yourself if you use
00:48:07
a gun or you use a weapon or there's some other threat but in this case it just seems
00:48:14
like it's brute force is what was used to control these and you're ex you're exactly right that
00:48:23
you don't have any proof that that the intruder intr did not have a firearm but what you do have is you have proof you
00:48:30
have things suggestive at the crime scene that they did not right they they did not use a firearm to kill the
00:48:36
victims there's no bullets that are found there's no bullet holes that are found there's no loud gunshots that are
00:48:42
heard by anybody in the neighborhood and then you have these clear and obvious signs of a struggle one at that man door
00:48:50
which is Johnny fighting off whoever's coming in and also somebody busting through Lisa's bedroom door and dragging
00:48:56
her down the stairs and so th those struggles are indicative that one you're not able to control them with the
00:49:06
firearm you have to use as you said brute force and then on top of that the premeditation right we don't know what
00:49:12
it is premeditative of but binding the the knowledge of going of knowing in advance you know what we should probably
00:49:21
bring some duct tape with us because we're probably going to have to bind one or two of these individuals at some
00:49:27
point well I bet and I would bet money that they if they brought the duct tape that they brought the bags with them as
00:49:33
well one thing that that's I think that's fair to say that but keep in mind we have the stob
00:49:40
saying they believe the the bags came from somewhere in the home and they would know better than us but here's the
00:49:47
thing Captain one thing that that is going on immediately early on in this investigation and one thing that police
00:49:55
will continue to struggle with throughout the course of this investigation is the Tiffany Williams telling them that
00:50:05
Johnny's saying bro what are you doing bro who the hell are you and they are trying to decipher what
00:50:12
they are hearing secondhand through Tiffany Williams does anything that that Johnny
00:50:18
is saying in that moment does that tell them that he can that he knows who this person is or knows the people or one of
00:50:26
the people that are attempting to invade the home or does he not know them and Tiffany Williams and law enforcement
00:50:37
will have changing and differing opinions at times in this investigation about that matter but the other thing we
00:50:45
also need to consider again unfortunately Johnny's not here to tell us his side of that
00:50:54
conversation of that short phone call that took place at 10:41 p.m. that night we only have Tiffany Williams to tell us
00:51:02
what she says that Johnny said on the phone [Music] right so much more to get to in this
00:51:16
case you're going to have to join us back here in the garage next week but until then Colonel do we have any
00:51:22
recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this week captain no surprise here we are recommending Where Do We Go
00:51:29
From Here chaos or Community by the great Dr Martin Luther King Jr in 1967 Dr Martin Luther King Jr isolated
00:51:37
himself from the demands of the Civil Rights Movement he rented a house in Jamaica with no telephone and labored
00:51:45
over his final manuscript here he lays out his thoughts plans and dreams for America's future with a universal
00:51:54
message of Hope that continues to resonate King demanded an end to Global suffering powerfully asserting that
00:52:01
humankind for the first time has the resources and Technology to eradicate poverty check out this week's
00:52:09
recommended reading Where Do We Go From Here chaos or Community by Dr Martin Luther King Jr you can find that title
00:52:18
and many great other recommendations on our recommended page at true Crim garage.com and until next week be good
00:52:26
be kind and don't [Music] live is it possible to predict the unpredictable could surgeons use a
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patient's own Anatomy to create 3D printed life-size organ models to map out challenges ahead of time making
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surgery more precise efficient and less invasive is it possible it already is because because every day we're doing
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go