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today on off the record this is part three of our discussion about Amy mihalovic that is episode number 22 on
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True Crime garage if you haven't checked that out do so today we're talking about
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how one of the suspects possibly committed suicide let's pick it up there thanks for joining us cheers mates
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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] foreign [Applause] the other strange thing regarding this
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Billy strunek is their there's not 100 percent conclusive evidence that this was
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a suicide I believe on his death certificate it does state that his death was caused by Suicide however when he
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was receiving medical attention for the poisoning for poisoning himself let's say
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um he denied poisoning himself he he also did not tell the medical professionals what he had
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ingested so there's some thought out there that that this wasn't technically a suicide that it might be a poisoning
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okay let's rewind for a second though because you said he takes this poison and then he was in a coma but at some
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point it's implying that he was talking to medical staff he was talking to them before the coma he was he didn't ingest
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this stuff and then he's found like blacked out somewhere I'm falling you know he ingested this stuff and then he
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went about his day like he left his apartment and and went about his day and so a lot of people have called into
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question if in fact this is a suicide because I gotta believe that most of the time if
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somebody poisons themselves they don't just go about their day they stay and wait for the poison to take effect yeah
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yeah so and he's saying that he wasn't poisoned he's saying he didn't poison himself I
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don't know that he he directly said those words because I don't have you know I don't have anything other than
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third hand knowledge of the conversation but I would imagine you know if you show up in there and
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your insides are burning and you describe it like that I'm sure one of the first thing the the medical
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professionals are going to ask you is well what have you eaten today what have you drank today did you did you ingest
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something that you shouldn't have or 30 package 30 packages of ketchup but you know what I mean and I so so in a way
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you can say that's a denial if if he did take that knowingly and then said no I just you know I had a Coca-Cola or
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something and so he went about his day um that would he went about his day and I
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think he was at work and he was complaining about not feeling well and he he was taken to the hospital
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and it was there that he fell into this coma and he eventually died um it was about two days after it's
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weird though because a couple thoughts on that one is did he ingest this stuff and did it hurt didn't did it not do
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what he thought I would do right away and then did he think wow this could get really bad and nobody's going to come
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looking for me and that's going to be depressing in itself so I'll just go to work and if
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something bad happens then happens there man I don't want to speculate too much I'm just saying that I mean this
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this is a case it's just so fascinating well it's weird because yeah I mean it's
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like well if he went to work what's the point in that is that to make a scene but then you would think he would want
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to tell people that he ingested something but then it's like well if I tell them what I took maybe they solved
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the problem and I don't die right maybe he was really set on dying the other issue though is what was in that note
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this is a note that is deemed by some to be a quote-unquote suicide note it could just be a journal
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but but we don't know what that said you know did it did it say I took this dried
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gas to kill myself that's a lot different than if it's just some kind of Randall random scribblings of something
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and it's generally it's generally believed by his family that he did commit suicide
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um they may have more they obviously would have more in sight insight to it than we would but we don't you know
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that's not if they're wrong about that then maybe they're wrong about the idea that we all believe he killed her
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I don't know it's it's a very fascinating part of the story well one thing that I've always firmly believed
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in and we didn't I didn't give my theory on um on what I think happened well that that
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that case we covered it way different because it was just we we invited Renner down from Cleveland
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to to Columbus and my favorite part about it is one he doesn't he didn't know who the hell we were and the fact
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that he would drive two and a half hours on a whim basically and he didn't know if he's showing up
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to some dude's house or or what and and we even told him like it's a professional
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studio like we I mean we were super amateur at that point right and so our thought was like man let's not
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invite him to the garage it's kind of smelly and I don't know about that but it's also a
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comfort level it's also a comfort level right right okay so like when I when I went up to um and I think the best way
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to to describe this Amy mahalovic project I think what I can say what I can say is
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that I'm helping them with the project and it's it's been an ongoing thing that's been phone calls and things like
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that but you're recording on the audio no but when I when I went up to Cleveland
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uh to to help them with this project I'm having lunch with Renner and we're talking I said uh real quick was he
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eating oh we we both had a sandwich of some kind I mean it was lunch time so it was regular
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lunch stuff I didn't pay attention to what he ordered I didn't pay attention to what
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he ordered so um I figured him to be like a soup and salad guy it was not soup and salad because you're
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a soup and salad guy but I had a sandwich yeah but you are a soup and salad guy I do like soup and salad I've
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gone to lunch with you many times and you ordered the soup and salad I'm like who does this
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I had sandwiched in it and and chips and I think he had some kind of sandwich and
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chips and no beer but that's because you were recording later had to drive two and a half hours at
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some point but good job Detective so I said to him I said I said he goes hey can you drive around do you want to
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you want to go to Bay Village which we were like we were like four minutes from Bayville yeah I've been there a bunch
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because we used to play in Lakewood um once a month for years and then we'd also play in West uh West Park which is
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right beside Lakewood right so well I've been there a bunch to help them out with this project I had
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to go to Lakewood and he says hey let's go up to do you want to do you have time to go up to Bay
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Village and I thought well this is perfect because we'll talk about Amy's case a little bit more and that's where
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I asked him about the uh strewnack suicide and about the note and anyway I said yeah I said but I only have about
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an hour to do that because I have to go to Lakewood to help them with this Amy project and he goes oh yeah where are
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you going in Lakewood and I'm like I'm not really certain I have the address here so I looked up the
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address he goes is that a is that like a hotel or some kind of meeting Center or hotel motel Holiday
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Inn Business Center or something like that and I said no I think it's a house and he goes
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okay that's weird and I didn't think I didn't put any thought into it so so you're gonna
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you're hanging out with Brenner you're driving at this point you're driving what you're talking about
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though no this was at lunch at lunch because he's asking me if I want to go to Bay Village I said I only have an
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hour so you got to go to Lakewood and you gotta meet and you're gonna meet at a house
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yes and he says that's weird yeah but but until he asked me that question I was unaware that it was a house I had the
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address I never I didn't Google it until he asked me that question right right so so
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it's a house right and he says that's weird and I would have been fine had he not said that's
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weird because here here I'm thinking this is Renner he goes up and knocks on suspect's doors right right in the
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middle of the night and he's telling me hey that's weird and I wanted to be like
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hey you kind of come with me yeah are you going to this place with me or because
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he's helped them with this project too so I just assumed when I told him it was a house that he would go oh yeah yeah
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over on blah blah blah and instead he goes well that's weird so you might not be able to talk about this but
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does the house have anything to do with the case no it didn't and and I I actually asked them that when I when I
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got close I called my contact just to make sure your agent no the I called my agent no I called my contact with the
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project just to make sure I had the right address told my agent that sandwich was really good thanks for the
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comp well I I don't know whose house I'm showing up to right right and so but I did ask them when I got there I said is
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does this House have any significance to it and they're like no it's just uh have
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you seen Amy's house we rented the house yeah so actually James and I went to Amy's house after lunch
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say that's that's fascinating which I I had been to I had been to Amy Street before but I didn't know which one was
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her house before when I'd been there and I had been to her street I had been to her school I've been to the shopping
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plaza and so while I was there he goes let's drive around Bay Village let's talk
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about the Amy case I thought this is I would love to this did you guys hold hands there was no hands being held
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right but he had a nice musk about him I don't know I didn't didn't smell the man I
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never smelled him once well we started off we went to there's a there's a memorial for Amy and a park there and
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one of the the city parks in Bay Village right and so we first went there and then we drove from
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we drove from her school to the shopping plaza which would have been the same route that she took from school to the
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shopping plaza the day that she was abducted and then we drove to her house and he pointed out which house it was
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now I I think I I think I impressed him a little bit with my knowledge because I
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knew about which house it was but I wasn't positive I said it we turned onto our street and I said I know her home's
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one of the ones on the end here but I don't know which one it is well you should be impressed by you anyways
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because I mean he's covered how many cases extensively a bunch yeah but but well not a ton though right I
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mean I well I don't know two major books right I don't know about his newspaper days right right right but
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um he's I would when you say extensively I he's wrote extensively to my knowledge
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of about marmara case I would say 15 to 20 cases depending on how you look at it okay
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more than I thought depending on how you look at it because when you talk about a
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Serial offender there's multiple cases involved within that but the fact that you remember anything about the Me cases
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fascinated me because we've covered over 100 cases now well and that was what was
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funny was I said to him I go I said last time I was here was about three years ago and he goes oh
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really I didn't realize it was that long ago and I said I said yeah that was right around the same time that I
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cornered you in the parking lot asking you questions about Amy's case and he goes he looks at me he goes my how
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things have changed yeah now he's wanting to talk to me about the Amy case yeah now you're stuck in the car with
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him but the so then we took the route from her house to the school because remember she would
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have rode her bike to school that day this is I mean it's sad really on some level you know what I mean well then
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it's extremely sad no I mean like did you feel any of that when you were like taking the
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I've I felt that for five or six years about this case no no I know that but I'm just saying like when you're driving
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that did you feel anything and uh the only thing here's why I say that is because
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you know I've been like I've visited like Motown [Music] and um hitsville and I just feel like that some areas
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whatever your connection is with it that I think there's some kind of energy that
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comes out on the universe where some kid could ride his bike the same path as Amy um
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a thousand times but he doesn't know the Amy Story and there's no personal connection so he won't feel that energy
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right but somebody like you or Runner that has dove into this case over and over and over and over again
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that if they take that path that they'll pick up on some kind of energy that's I
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mean I know that's kind of hippity-dippity stuff and no no not at all and and that's why I started off the
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story by saying once I got past Route 1181. okay so now you don't drive directly past
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where her body was found but I know the exit to get off on to to make my way to jog over to that that right right so as
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soon as I drive past that exit that was when I felt the the anger and the sadness and everything all at once where
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I said you know I know that I feel strongly that some point between here and where I'm going to end up
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later today there could still be a child killer living somewhere along this route
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yeah and I I felt it as soon as I got to pass that exit which is about 50 miles away from Bay Village where she lived so
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I drive with that for the for the full 50 miles until I get to to see you know have lunch with him and then we go and
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we drive that route we also went to Holly Hill Farms which was the riding stable where she used to ride horses and
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and that was actually the center of the investigation for the first few weeks that she was missing they really
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believed that somebody that worked there had abducted her and taken her to this writing stable now you know
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unbeknownst to both Renner and I um we got to where the stable would have been where the farm would have been and
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it's it's no longer there they've sold off the land and it's now a uh they're they've bulldozed it over and they're
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currently building houses there I've been looking for houses lately and I keep finding houses that have Stables
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have you seen this no it's fascinating to me I'm like I I over 10 at least over 10 houses that
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have some kind of riding stable like where they just have stables for horses it's fascinating to me okay so anyways
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it's not there anymore now other question for you so this is a case that you've read about
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now I can't remember but you were into the case before you actually read the book by James yeah because I I had a
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little knowledge of it when I was a kid when it happened and then I kind of fell
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out of it and then grew up grew into all this true crime uh hobby about reading about true crime and
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stuff like that and it wasn't until I got older that I became fascinated with unsolved Ohio cases right and I started
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look I I just Googled the name one day to see if it had ever been solved and it hadn't I hadn't looked at it in in years
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and at that time there was no book out you know Renner had not wrote his book yet right but once you read the
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book then everything that's in the book as far as like talking about houses and schools and stuff like that then you
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okay so you read the book and and like I'm assuming there wasn't a bunch of pictures
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could be wrong uh there's some pictures I mean it's a typical True Crime book the old school
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format where you would you know you would see pictures in the center of the book
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um to give you some kind of idea but but I'm just saying that you probably it's probably a lot easier for you to imagine
00:18:01
what some of these scenes look like because it's Ohio and we're only two hours from this if it was a crime that
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took place in California that schools would probably look different the houses normally look a little different well
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yeah before I had ever been there before I had ever been there I had a general idea of the distance between
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where she was last seen and where her body was found right you know so it's easier to paint that picture now uh
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years ago I happened to it sounds creepy that I had been there and visited some of these places years ago but I had to
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be in town for something else I had time to I had time to to likely excuse creeper why A Time to Kill
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which is terrible word to say in this situation but um so I drove by some of those places when
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I had been up there before but I kind of did double double duty when I was up there because I went over by
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um many years ago not only did I drive the Amy stuff involved in her case but I also went over by Sam Shepard's old
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house and and over by the uh the hospital that he worked at yeah most people know that's Loosely that story
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from The Fugitive strange enough though two of Ohio's most UNF most famous unsolved crimes happened in Bay
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Village you have Amy The Disappearance of murder of Amy mihalovic and you also have the murder of Maryland Shepard well
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there was a third crime that happened in Bay Village what's that you probably don't even know about
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I mean you you want to stand on a pedestal hold your American flag with your golden
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gold medal of True Crime but I bet you don't know what the third crime is the Abbott and Bay Village is
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the third most popular case now it's a soft case in Ohio in Ohio one captain got a speeding ticket one time in Bay
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Village from Bay Village I think it was Bayville Bayville you don't even know if
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it was well I remember I had to go to was it Portage important I had to go to some here's
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what I remember about it I'm going on the I'm driving the coast big houses you know what I'm talking
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about it's right on the water oh yeah yeah big house it's huge houses old houses these
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are Mansions right I get to the uh station to pay my ticket I pay the ticket there's something
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really cheap 50 bucks but you couldn't mail it in something stupid right so I pay this 50 ticket
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on the way in to the police department mansion mansion mansion oh my God I'd love to live there oh my God I love to
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live here I know I think it was Bay Village because because the police station in Bay Village is not surrounded
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by mansions okay so it's close it's in the area but but I was but the ticket happened in Bay
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Village okay I pay wherever I paid but then maybe you had to pay to the county there maybe I did I don't know how that
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works Portage County something like that okay so I go pay then I leave the police station you know
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how like you you start wondering did I enter from the right or did I on the left right or left so I ended up turning
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the wrong way and I was instantly in the ghetto it went from mansion mansion mansion to
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Police Department separating The Mansions from the ghetto and it was um but I always loved Cleveland
00:21:53
well that's that's kind of like how it is here in spots too I mean we have like you go to Bexley there's some big ass
00:22:00
beautiful houses there and then you go like a block over and you're like these people were robbing from those big ass
00:22:07
beautiful houses that are a block away yeah when people ask me uh I'd go uh I because I stayed in Bexley a bunch
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and um back in the day because that's where my college was for a little bit but they um they'd always ask me well
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where do you oh that's awesome you stay in Bexley no you must be loaded yeah no they go oh that place is awesome but you
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know uh a couple blocks away is not so nice and I'm like yeah that's where I live I I live in that part you probably
00:22:38
don't remember this oh no I would actually you probably do you probably do but we had a
00:22:44
conversation many moons ago my friend when we were in our early 20s and we we for a brief period of time we shared an
00:22:51
apartment and I said you know the apartment we lived in was in my name uh because I had asked you to move in I'm
00:22:58
like hey I'm having trouble making rent I have an extra room do you can you help
00:23:03
me out you didn't charge me that much but but I guess that was enough to help you out yeah so you charged me three
00:23:09
hundred dollars so we're living together in the end of the lease was coming up and I said to
00:23:16
you I said well I'm considering looking for a different place I was because the rent at that apartment that we were
00:23:22
staying in was so high you could rent a house for about that of that price and you go oh cool well yeah I would
00:23:31
love to get a room with you at the house depending on where it is of course you know because you got to drive right and
00:23:39
I go you go well where are you thinking about and I said well I'm going to go look at this one place I called the the
00:23:44
landlord already and it's um it's over on this stream which was right by Bexley the place that we just
00:23:52
referenced with the big ass houses and you go wait a second that street I'm not living on that street and I go why
00:23:59
and you said uh because you know the crime rate over there you know the amount of theft and and
00:24:06
home break-ins going on and I said to you I go it's a high crime area I go but those people aren't breaking into any
00:24:14
homes on that street they're going two blocks over oh no well because my my college was right in the middle and they
00:24:21
had a crime chart for some reason in the hallway so is this like a remote it was like
00:24:28
this weird reminder that you are here and crime doesn't happen here yeah and this is this is the nice area that's
00:24:36
very it was very strange yeah uh male student rape victims is up 80 percent by two fingered Tommy
00:24:46
so um okay so you could then film some stuff with these people yeah and you're six hours oh my God it was six
00:24:57
hours of filming we we had um which was which was it sounds fantastic it was it doesn't sound fantastic no no
00:25:06
because I think I've done filming before I think when people not you but I think when other
00:25:12
people hear that they're like oh you were probably like walking around and going to places of significance
00:25:20
regarding the crime and it's you know you talking to uh law enforcement no this was what it was it was me it was
00:25:27
your buddy your old buddy the colonel sitting in a chair in a dark room surrounded by about
00:25:37
seven or eight people that were not going they were not involved in the filming as far as being filmed they were
00:25:43
doing the film right so their cameraman that's kind of dark room Spotlight on me
00:25:49
and then they're like okay now talk why all of us stare at you right oh you sit in this dark room
00:25:56
there's a couple things that you're not really that comfortable with because I mean that would be one of them
00:26:02
because I I know you pretty well so I remember when when we're shooting the you know quote unquote little teaser
00:26:08
reel uh to kind of shop around the the Brian Shafer docu-series or whatever it was
00:26:15
every time they would like film you like I get to see how nervous you looked and uh
00:26:23
I I don't know did you did you feel that when I was being filmed no I didn't feel that when you were
00:26:30
being filmed but you and I kind of operate in two different ways like I I like to have notes and I like to have
00:26:35
things to refer to I should have notes and and you you don't necessarily need that
00:26:44
um I I don't need that for our show no no but when so when when they're filming you talking you're just talking
00:26:52
because you just talk the problem with filming me is like okay well you can film me but I need a stack
00:26:59
of papers sitting next to me right and if you take away that stack of papers uh what it's probably that you just use it
00:27:08
as a crutch on some level it's kind of like if you learn a piece of music that sometimes like if you take
00:27:15
away that sheet it's like it goes all the way but if you take a couple seconds to kind of regroup you're going to be
00:27:21
able to play it from memory well I I know most of the cases by memory let's say 50 the problem is that you need to
00:27:29
have specific names of people specific places dates and times and things and just pull a runner if you don't know it
00:27:36
just make it up just if he hears this he was not gonna he doesn't listen to us no way he's he
00:27:46
likes you just I think he likes you he didn't ask me about podcast information well
00:27:55
but I I you know but again I think he's a really nice guy I was going up there talented writer I was going up there
00:28:01
anyway and I think the way that the conversation went like this it sounded to me
00:28:07
I hate to put words in someone's mouth but it sounded to me like it he was like hey can we get together
00:28:15
and talk about podcasts where do you want to do it okay now if I would have said hey we
00:28:21
have to do it in Columbus he would have come down he would have met with the both of us but I kind of I was nice to
00:28:27
him because I know he's drove down here a few times I'm like look you happen to start this conversation up and guess
00:28:32
what within the next week or two I'm going to be in your neck of the woods anyway so let's just make it happen the
00:28:38
highlight of my day was driving around with James Renner and talking about the case
00:28:44
it wasn't moose knuckles no we can't even remember you can't remember the sandwich I told you the
00:28:51
place was called something like Moosehead Saloon yeah that's probably pretty accurate
00:28:57
that's probably somebody yeah okay so no so so overall it was a good experience and and you you can't even say that when
00:29:06
it comes out oh I don't I don't they're not done filming yet so I don't think they know
00:29:11
when it's coming out but that I mean because like we've said multiple times on the show it's like
00:29:20
I think about that it's like even what Renner said like you're driving around with Renner
00:29:28
you you used to follow the guy out to the parking lot now you're hanging out with him
00:29:35
in a car he's asking you for podcast advice you are also a a case that you just it's your red light case one of your red
00:29:48
light cases yeah yeah and and some of my top one of my top five and these people
00:29:52
thought of you enough as a true crime expert on that case yeah right but to be involved in such a thing I
00:30:03
mean that's yeah that's pretty crazy I think that puts me on a level that I'm not really on here's here's kind of the
00:30:10
mental the psych the psychology behind it I think me and Amy are almost the same age like we're we're
00:30:19
within months of each other right yeah she's a little bit older than me I think the I think that the appeal for
00:30:28
them filming here is one okay what's this rare scenario think about this rare scenario we have a guy that that does
00:30:36
True Crime for a living he is born and raised in Ohio still lives in Ohio he knows the case very
00:30:44
well and he's the same age as the victim right you know I mean it's just a lot of
00:30:50
things lining up it gives it gives um it gives credibility to why they would want to talk to me
00:30:58
you know because I I can I can somewhat relate to the case in in the sense even if I didn't know about the case I can
00:31:04
relate to it in the sense that I was in the same grade as her at the same age as
00:31:08
her yeah when this happened when it went down right but you're you also have an audience now and and and just because
00:31:15
you have an audience doesn't make you an expert but I'd argue all of the three or
00:31:18
four people hello hey everybody Tom Justin Jerry there's a lot of Tommy's two fingers today
00:31:26
um no but I think Justin Justice is over in the corner and Justin's driving his little green Ford pickup truck
00:31:38
foreign [Music] [Applause]