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Heat. Heat. [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
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you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick. And with me in the garage is a man that when
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he discovered Gronk is having back surgery, he immediately emailed Bill Bichc and began stretching followed by
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some deep knee bends. He is of course the captain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen and it's good
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to see you. Get well soon, Grank. [Music] We were in the garage drinking yesterday
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and we're back at it again today. Today we are drinking Vanilla Porter by Breen Ridge Brewing in Littleton, Colorado.
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Garage Grade 3 and 3/4 bottle caps out of five. This porter has all of the chocolate and roasted nut flavor that
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you were looking for with a hint of vanilla. I actually thought that they could have gone with a little more
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vanilla, but that's just me. Breen Ridge Vanilla Porter is brought to us by these
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Supreme Garage attendees like Amy. Amy recommends trying a Maryland brewed beer. Next we have Strtopia from Marsh
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Gibbon, UK. We also have Richie in Vancouver, Washington. That's kind of related to this case, right?
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>> Richie says, "Try anything from Bridgeport Brewing in Portland, but he especially likes their Kingpin double
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red ale." We also have Michelle in Toronto. Michelle really digs the show and she says that we should never
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deviate from our format. She loves the timeline mixed with the captain's color commentary. And she says, "Screw
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grammar, right?" Well, >> well, yeah, >> I get what you're saying, but the bad grammar, it's not really a planned
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portion of the format. It's just us being dudes. I mean, of course, we don't have stellar grammar.
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>> There are smart dudes out there that have nice grammar. We're just We're not smart enough to know that we have bad
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grammar. >> That's right. And I'm not the type to just uh to just stop the show to correct
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one word. You know, sometimes I have a typo in my notes or I've just misspelled something terribly and so I just plow on
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through and maybe create a whole new word in the process. >> Well, and I tend to just drink so much
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that I don't even know what I'm saying. >> Okay, we also have Veronica in High Point, North Carolina. Veronica says she
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loves the show. She loves the captain and says, "Nick, you are okay." Well, thank you, Veronica. I think you are
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okay as well. And >> Veronica, you're better than okay. Last but not least, we have Shannon from
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Parts Unknown. I love Parts Unknown. I'm planning a trip there in 17. Shannon says we can enjoy a beer on her. So
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awesome. Thank you all. Thank you Amy, Strattopia, Richie, Michelle, Veronica, and Shannon for bringing the bucket of
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beers to the garage for this week's show. And if you want to buy us around for next week's show, go to true
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crimegar.com and click on the donate button. Also, if you want to follow us on social media, Snapchat, Instagram,
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Facebook, all that stuff, True Crime Garage, and now Nick is on Untapped, which if you want to follow his beer
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selections and his beer drinking habits, check him out on Untapped. A big shout out to DK_FXN
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and John WHh on Instagram. They sent me some interesting information and it and it adds to the show. Whether you write
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to us on social media or the website, we try to take a look at all the cases that
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people are presenting and uh we definitely appreciate it. So, thank you and much love.
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>> Are you going to say your catchphrase? >> We like your gym. >> That's right. Gather around, grab a
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chair, grab a beer, and let's talk some true crime. [Music] This is true crime garage
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and this is the case of the Kyomega killings. [Music] Fighten co-eds at Florida State
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University in Tallahassee walked a class in groups today while detectives tried to track a man who slipped into a
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sorority house early yesterday and murdered two women. David Dick reports. The killer struck first at the Kyomega
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sorority house. Police say he simply walked in through an unlocked door. They say he was armed with a heavy oak log.
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He clubbed and then strangled to death, 20-year-old Lisa Levy and 21-year-old Margaret Bowman. At least one of them
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was raped. Then he brutally beat three more sleeping co-eds, Karen Chandler and Kathy Kleiner. Cherylyn Thomas was
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severely beaten in her apartment six blocks away. Their conditions today fair to serious. The killer came in from the
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night and then returned to it with an ease that has so far baffled police and left most co-eds here terrified.
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Blood stained bed sheets and numerous bags of other evidence were prepared at the Tallahassee Police Department for
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transfer to the crime lab. Sergeant Howard Winkler was one of the first on the scene
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>> when he hit the girls. Uh I just don't think they had a chance to to fight back. I think he just went in and hit. I
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just don't think they had a chance to cry out. Captain Burl Peacock of the Criminal
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Investigation Division says he thinks it will be a very difficult case to solve.
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What kind of a person do you think is at large? Well, I'd rather say we've got a very
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disturbed, sick individual. >> A university crimerevention officer visited Florida State sororities today,
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urging house mothers to take stricter security measures. But many co-eds remained worried and badly frightened.
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>> I think everybody's scared all the time, even just walking to classes. And today,
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we've been keeping our doors locked during the day, too, which we don't usually do.
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>> The front door of the Kyomega house was not only locked today. A policeman stood
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guard on the other side. The house mother stepped out a few moments, but would not talk in front of a camera. She
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said, "They were just lovely girls. It has been a harrowing experience." David Dick, CBS News, Tallahassee.
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>> FBI agents and Florida police are questioning a man by the name of Theodore Robert Bundy about the killing
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of two Florida State University co-eds in January and attacks on three other co-eds. Bundy had escaped New Year's Eve
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from a Colorado jail where he was a suspect in 36 rapes and murders, mostly in the West, over a 7-year period. He
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was recaptured Wednesday morning, arrested in Pensacola, Florida on a stolen car charge. But he gave the
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police another name, and it wasn't until last night that he was identified as Bundy. All the police are saying for now
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is that Bundy is cooperating and talking with investigators. The car he was driving had been reported stolen in
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Tallahassee, the scene of the Florida State campus problem. Leslie, >> President Carter leaves today on his
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>> Pensacola, Florida police are questioning a man they say may be one of the worst sex murderers of all time. We
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have a report from Bruce Hall. Police arrested this 31-year-old man after a high-speed chase Wednesday
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morning in Pensacola, Florida. He claimed to be a Florida State University law student, but now he has been
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positively identified as prison escapee Theodore Bundy, a suspect in the rape murder cases of at least 36 young women
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in California, Washington, Oregon, Utah, Colorado, and Michigan. He is also on the FBI's 10 most wanted list. Among the
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first to arrive to question Bundy were these detectives from Tallahassee, Florida, where two co-eds were murdered
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and three others savagely beaten last month. Tallahassee officials would not talk to the press, but they did talk to
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the state attorney in Pensacola. I do know though that they told me that he was a definite suspect in their
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investigation. It has been learned that Bundy has been living in this Tallahassee apartment
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since a few days after he escaped from a Colorado prison on New Year's Eve. The apartment is less than a mile from the
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Kyomega sorority house at Florida State where the highly publicized attacks took
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place in mid January. When Bundy was arrested, police said he had in his possession 21 stolen credit cards, all
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from co-eds at the university. This afternoon, Bundy was taken to court where he was ordered held without bond.
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He will remain in Pensacola under tight security until authorities can determine
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if he will be charged with the Florida State University murders and what state has the strongest case against him.
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Bruce Hall, CBS News, Mobile. [Music] Let's see where we left off here, Captain. Last we spoke, we were talking
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about Ted Bundy, and last time we saw him, he was locked up in a Utah jail, and he was being charged with the
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abduction uh and the attack that he did on Carol Danch. This was the woman that he pretend to pretended to be a police
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officer. Told her that her car was broken into at the shopping mall and he needed her to go back to the police
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department with him so that he could take a statement and maybe she could identify uh the person that that
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supposedly broke into her car. Nobody broke into her car. This is just Bundy being Bundy with one of his uh multiple
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ruses that he would use to get somebody into his vehicle. >> Right. Um, and one thing we got to think
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about here >> when we talk about these type of people, okay, >> what kind of people are you
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>> serial killers? Okay. Um, and one thing that >> psychopaths, >> one thing that goes unnoticed a lot or
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or not so much uh talked about, but one thing I was thinking about last night in
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particular with Ted Bundy is that yeah, he had his murder rape kit that he would
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keep in his vehicle that would travel around with him. And this was, you know, we talked about those things that were
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found when he was arrested. These were things like an ice pick and a ski mask and gloves and uh sometimes he would
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have a crowbar in there. I think actually all the time he had a crowbar in there. That seemed to be his kind of
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go-to. Um the ice pick, I don't really I always wondered why he had that ice pick. Uh, I don't know if he was going
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to, let's say, graduate to a different form of killing because typically what he would do is hit people over the head
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with the crowbar so that he could gain control of them. >> But he didn't kill them in that manner.
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He he was a strangler. Uh, he would strangle these women. Uh, usually what he would do is hit them over the head
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with the crowbar. He's got control of them. He would rape them and then he would rape them again as he was killing
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them, as he was strangling them. Mhm. >> And um sometimes he would even rape them
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again after they had they had died. Now uh the thing with the ice pick is, you know, people you see this when you talk
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about Ted Bundy. You can look up anything on Ted Bundy and and pictures and you're going to see pictures of this
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ice pick, but I think the ice pick was actually something that he thought he would use to gain access to somebody's
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home. I think it was more of a burglar type tool that he was going to break in with the ice pick to house if he needed
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to. Um >> well with Dmer for example, like Dmer's apartment was they used that as you know
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uh here's this crazy psychopath and we need to study him after the fact. In Ted Bundy's case, it seems like it's his uh
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car. You know that his car is the equivalence of the the apartment. So >> you're exactly right. And that's one
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thing I was trying to touch on here with with Bundy and with multiple serial killers. You see this time and time
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again. The vehicle is as much of a killing tool as that rape and and murder kit or or the apartment.
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>> Exactly. It's it's another tool. And I'm sure that that uh Dmer outfitted his
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apartment in a way that would make killing easier for him or or holding them captive easier for him just as
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Bundy did with his vehicle. >> He used his vehicle as a trolling device. I mean, Bundy was driving all
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the time. He drove constantly. You know, we talk about he was living in Utah and
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he was driving all the way to Colorado to find victims. But not only was he driving all the time, he was outfitting
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his car. He was unscrewing the passenger seat. Why would he do that? Well, because if he had to throw a body in
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there, it would be low. The body would be down inside and wouldn't be visible to people that he was passing by.
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>> Yeah. or the handle, the passenger handle wasn't there was no handle. So, >> he removed the handle. So, if you're
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trying to get away from him, you you're less likely to be able to do so. >> One one of the things that I found
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creepiest about, you know, as far as like serial killer goes and fascination with different killers, um but Bundy
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wouldn't be on my top of the list like you know, before we actually started diving into him. Uh, one of the things I
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thought was so disturbing, uh, is how he would like put makeup on some of the victims after they're dead.
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He's like revisiting their, you know, the spot where they died. And sometimes, and and this is just speculation. I
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don't think they have any proof of this other than there's now makeup on this body that shouldn't have makeup on it.
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Almost like somebody went back and redid their makeup. >> Yeah. Well, what he was doing and and a
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lot of people have speculated that Bundy was a a necroile. Well, yes, he he had sex with dead corpses.
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>> And so he was, you know, >> I'm sorry if you're listening to this your morning commute and we just said
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>> that Bundy had sex with dead corpses, >> but he was having sex with dead corpses.
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I don't I he was in every sense of the word a necrophiliac. However, there are some killers that their whole reason for
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killing is to have sex with the dead body. That I don't think was the situation with Ted Bundy. I think his
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his thing that he was after was the rape while committing the murder. I think that was his big thing. The with the
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whole necroilia thing for him. I think that that was just it was kind of a way to slow him from killing somebody else.
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you know, he could go back and and mentally revisit that victim and revisit his crime mentally and relive it, right?
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>> And rather than going out and killing another person because it was easier or
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something easy to do. Now, the thing with you said Bundy, you know, wouldn't have been at the top of your list, but
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I'm sure he's moved significantly up there since we we started looking at him. But the one thing that for me he he
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has been on the top of my list forever and and the the reason being is that he was so unique especially for the time uh
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and he was such a problem for the investigators. He was doing things at the time that that you might see serial
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killers do uh more recently, but he knew to that that it was to his advantage to
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commit different crimes in different jurisdictions. He knew that the police didn't really talk to one another and
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that they would have a problem linking these crimes. And I but I think that's where
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primarily Bundy um where serial killers get this idea of when when people are profiling a killer they start saying oh
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above uh above level intelligence >> and I think it's coming from Ted Bundy uh look at like somebody like Ed Gene or
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somebody like that you're not going to see above level intelligence and and I think So, but I don't want to glorify
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it. I don't want to glamorize him. I mean, this guy was a complete psychopath. Uh, and and more so, and and
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that's what was fascinating to me when looking into him is just how sick of a person he was. It climbed on the list.
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Not that I admire the guy in any sense of the term, but just when you think of somebody like Ed Gene, for example, oh
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man, this guy's horrific. This is disgusting. Bundy was above that. >> Head and shoulders above that.
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>> Oh yeah. Big time. I mean, and but the the other thing too that made him so dangerous was his modus operendi. He did
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not he didn't have a specific one. Um you know where you'll see some killers where you know like a long haul killer.
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They they their motus operendi is pretty much the same time and time again. All you know I just need to pick up this uh
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working girl from a truck stop and she's in my truck and now she's mine. she's she's she's dead.
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>> Mhm. >> And where with Bundy, he didn't have a typical way of finding his victims. He
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would adapt to the situation. You know, we've seen we didn't talk about all of his crimes, but just kind of a quick
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overview. You know, he didn't he didn't just pick up women that he would trick into getting into his car. No, there
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were more than one occasion where he would break into a house and he would he would obtain the victim there. He would
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steal them from their home. And we saw one situation where the girl was living with four other people. I mean, how
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risky is that? He breaks into a home. He could have been seen by any of those other four people or fought off.
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>> Um, and instead he he knocks her unconscious and he takes her with him, you know, and what else did he do? He
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would also just pick up random hitchhikers, you know, just he would see an opportunity and he would seize the
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moment. Yeah, that's that's what's kind of strange here is, you know, he's not an opport opportunist killer all the
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time. Sometime he's he's creating that opportunity. It's it's it's really fascinating. I mean, he's a and then
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what we're going to be talking about today is, you know, the the escapes and the and the trials. I mean, that's just
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a whole another level of of this madness that is Ted Bundy. And the other thing about his vehicle being his killing tool
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is think about that. We talked about the seat, the passenger seat that he would unscrew from the floorboards and and you
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know he would sometimes he would have the seat in, sometimes he would have the seat out. Well, that whole thing you
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could kind of figure out what he's doing there because >> he needed to remove the seat to hide the
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bodies as he was transporting them, right? But at other times, he needed the seat to be there. Why? Because if I slow
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down to pick up a hitchhiker and I have no passenger seat, well, she's not getting in my car, right?
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>> You know, so this is it was definitely his vehicle, the VW bug was definitely
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his number one killing tool in my opinion as well as the crowbar. >> And we talked about this a little bit
00:19:20
yesterday. Uh, you know, just between me and you and I thought it was an interesting tidbit to bring up on the
00:19:27
show. Did he have some advantage by having a VW VW bug? Was there any advantage there? You know,
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like um did did women feel less uh threatened by this more, you know, it's more of a kind of a I mean, it's more of
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a college student car and and you'll hear when >> when people talk about the the people
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that came forward and said, "Oh, yeah. I was in his vehicle." And I just thought
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and and one of her lines was, "Well, it's here's this college kid and this is just a college car there. There probably
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was some advantage like you said if he was driving a giant monster truck with giant tires, uh, you know, maybe that
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wouldn't let these women's guard down as much." >> I I agree. Yeah. I mean, exactly. If he
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had a monster truck or if he had a white van, you know, the the typ typical creepy white van,
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>> white Bronco. Yeah, that I I don't think as many women would have gotten his car,
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but his thing, his victims that he wanted, his victimology was attractive collegeage women and uh you know, they
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see this somewhat, you know, good-looking man who's well spoken and he's driving the typical college boy
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car. Um and it >> he had better grammar than we did. >> I'm sure that he did. Um so where we
00:20:48
left off was Bundy is in jail in Utah. He's being charged with the abduction of Carol Dash. And for that, he is pretty
00:20:57
easily convicted because she can look right at him and go, "Uh, yes, judge and jury. Uh, that's the guy that that
00:21:03
tricked me into his car and tried to kill me." Right. >> Um, now he's he gets a sentence. It's a
00:21:09
one to 15year sentence. Uh, so, you know, with good behavior, he's going to get out in one year's time. Now, during
00:21:16
the process of this, >> but that's just because it's a single attack. >> Yeah. They're not linking it to
00:21:22
everything else. >> And here's where the links start to happen. There is a detective, his name
00:21:26
is Jerry Thompson. He remembers the uh a similar suspect that was described from
00:21:34
um a a few different cases that was going on. And now remember, we had said that there were gas receipts that were
00:21:40
found in Bundy's vehicle when he was arrested. Now, these gas receipts would put him in areas uh and at the same time
00:21:49
of other sitting there with his one year to go uh he is extradited to the state of
00:21:58
Colorado because they have now linked him to one of the murders in Colorado. At the same time, the police were
00:22:05
searching Bundy's apartment after he was arrested and he after he was convicted.
00:22:09
And during this time, they found other things, too. They found a guide to the Colorado Ski Resort. Uh this was the
00:22:15
Wildwood Inn. Now remember this is where uh a young woman, 23-year-old Karen Campbell, was she she was a nurse from
00:22:24
Michigan, but she was on vacation with her boyfriend, and she vanished from uh the hotel there. And this is at the ski
00:22:32
resort while on a ski trip. And so they with with the gas receipts and with this
00:22:37
uh guide to the ski resort, they're able to put Ted Bundy at that place and know
00:22:42
that he might have had, you know, might have been the one that killed or took Karen Campbell. Uh the other situation
00:22:49
that's going on too is they found a brochure. This was an advertisement for the the Viewmont High School play. Now,
00:22:56
this is where uh Debbie Kent had disappeared. This is where he was seen in the parking lot going up to different
00:23:03
students and trying to get them in his car. So, Bundy's been extradited to Colorado where he's going to be charged
00:23:09
with the death of Karen Campbell. Now, during this situation, he he's in jail there, right? But he's also assisting in
00:23:17
his own defense. And part of that, he Bundy is ever so the con man. He's always conning. He's always scheming.
00:23:25
That's what makes him so dangerous. and he's always manipulating every situation. And he has told the judge, he
00:23:31
said, "You know what? Since I'm working on my defense, since I'm assisting in my
00:23:35
own defense, I need to have access and be treated a little differently than you would treat your typical murder
00:23:42
suspect." Right? He's saying, you know, I can't be shackled because I need I need to be working and I need to be
00:23:48
studying and working on my own defense. And on on top of that, he needs access to uh you know the library where he can
00:23:56
do do research. >> So not only is he not shackled and arguably arguably one of the d most
00:24:03
dangerous men of all time in my opinion, he's not shackled, he's manipulated his
00:24:08
way into the library. Now he's in the library. >> Well, dangerous, but mainly to women. I
00:24:16
mean, >> I mean, not saying that he's above killing a man, but he, >> you know, his motivations to me aren't
00:24:22
just kill willy-nilly, >> but he he has access to this library. This library is part of the courthouse
00:24:28
and part of the jail. So, it it's on the second floor. They hold court on the first floor and on the second floor was
00:24:35
the library, I believe. Nowadays, it's actually a it's another court. Um, but he's up in the library and he's working
00:24:42
and he's doing his studying. He's probably not really studying. He's scheming the whole time. This is Ted
00:24:46
Bundy. Now, he uses the, you know how the standing bookshelves, they create aisles with those standing bookshelves.
00:24:53
Yeah. Well, he used one of those to kind of uh hide what he was doing, but they had an open window. They would leave the
00:24:59
window open on the second floor to get, you know, cool air into the to the building. Uh, so nobody can see what
00:25:07
he's doing, but he basically jumps out of the second story window. And this is this is not like a 8ft drop, you know.
00:25:14
This is a pretty a pretty big drop. Uh I would speculate that most people would break an ankle or a leg jumping out of
00:25:22
that uh window. I've seen pictures of it on the internet. It's not a jump that I
00:25:27
would make, but he he makes the jump. And Bundy's a weird dude, man. He he he gets lucky. Not only is he scheming, but
00:25:35
he gets he gets lucky from time to time, much to uh much to our dismay. Right. Right. But he should have broken his
00:25:42
ankle when he jumped out of that window. He did not. He he did severely strain sprain his leg. Um and they would see
00:25:50
evidence of that later, but we somebody spots him and says, "Oh, somebody just jumped out of that window, right?" you
00:25:57
know, and so they go in and they tell uh they tell the the the people in charge,
00:26:02
you know, somebody just jumped out of your second story window, and their first thought is, "Oh, uh, who who has
00:26:10
access to that?" The Bund Oh god, I hope it's not Bundy. And sure enough, it is Bundy. It doesn't get any weirder than
00:26:16
this. I mean, truth, you know, truth is always stranger than fiction, right? And
00:26:20
this is like a horror flick, you know, like at the end of the movie when they're they're sitting in the ca in the
00:26:26
canoe and or the the boat out on the lake and you think everything's safe and then Jason Vorhees just jumps out of the
00:26:32
water all of a sudden. That's this moment. You know, we have this guy that is he's been charged and convicted of an
00:26:38
a serious attack on car Carol Danch in a neighboring state. Now he's in Colorado
00:26:45
having been charged with the murder of Karen Campbell and he's suspected in the death of this 17-year-old but not been
00:26:53
charged yet and he's just jumped out of a second story window and he's on the loose. I mean it doesn't get any more
00:26:58
terrifying than this. >> Well, this is more like when Mike Meyers breaks out of the looney bin.
00:27:03
>> You're exactly right. >> It's more like that part. Anyways, let's get back we'll go back into Bundy right
00:27:08
after this quick beer break. And we're back. Cheers everybody. Cheers. So, where we left off now, Ted Bundy has
00:27:16
he's escaped from the courthouse, right? >> And he's jumped out of this window and
00:27:20
somehow he did not break an ankle, didn't break his leg. But remember, there was that person that came in and
00:27:26
notified them very quickly that, hey, somebody some dude just jumped out your window, right?
00:27:32
>> Um, so what happens here is he actually they they set up roadblocks because they
00:27:38
need to get this guy as quick as they can. and he sneaks past one of those roadblocks. He's on foot, but what he
00:27:46
did was he he shed his clothes as soon as he jumped out of the window. So, not only this is where we know that he was
00:27:53
planning to escape that day. He didn't just get lucky and happen stance. He's like, "Oh, the window's open. I'm going
00:27:59
for it." >> Well, yeah. But like we said, he's he's, you know, not only is he a psychopathic
00:28:05
murderer, he's a con artist as well. and whatever garb he was given to wear uh being in jail, he underneath of that he
00:28:13
had regularlook clothes. So after he jumps out of the window, he sheds these uh the the the jail garb or whatever it
00:28:21
is and he's in regular looking clothes and he sneaks past the roadblock. Well, he heads up into the uh Aspen Mountain.
00:28:28
Well, now Bundy is as clever as he is and as much of a con man and manipulator as he is, he he's, you know, he can
00:28:38
manipulate a jail system or a prison system, but he can't really manipulate the the wilderness,
00:28:44
>> right? Mother nature. >> Yeah. So, he he's up there and he's trying to survive as he's eluding
00:28:50
capture. And some of the things he does while he's up there, he's breaking into cabins that have nobody in it. and uh
00:28:57
he's stealing, you know, clothes and food and uh I think he even took a rifle from one of the cabins. You know, he's
00:29:04
looking he's become a survival list, let's say, right? He's he's out on the run. Uh he's only loose for about 6 days
00:29:12
and they end up capturing him and he looks you can find pictures of him on the internet from when he got back from
00:29:19
uh from his little uh trip up in the Aspen Mountain, but he looks like like he aged 10 years during that six days.
00:29:28
So he's back in jail and now they they will transfer him to another jail. Um, and this is supposed to be, you know,
00:29:37
there's more security at the Garfield um, prison now. So, they warn him. They warn the prison.
00:29:46
They're like, "Okay, look, this guy, he's he didn't just We don't think he just killed this Karen Campbell."
00:29:53
>> Mhm. >> We think he's killed all kinds of women, and if he gets out, he is going to try
00:29:58
to escape. That's who he is, >> right? We We've seen this already. >> Yeah. And so he's going to try to escape
00:30:05
and if he gets out, he's going to kill as many women as he can. That's just in his nature. That's what he does. He's an
00:30:12
evil guy. >> Now, but Ted being Ted, you know, he he's he talks to the guards, you know,
00:30:20
he talks to the administrators there, and he, you know, he he has a way of talking to people and befriending
00:30:26
people, so they kind of let their guard down. >> Yeah. And one of the things that you see
00:30:30
in this video, uh, some of the clips is there's a man walking Ted in and Ted is handcuffed
00:30:39
and you can tell that whoever's respond, I don't know if this guy's a lawyer or if he's a police officer or whatever he
00:30:45
is, but you can see him and Ted joking and laughing at each other while they walk into the courtroom. And and we're
00:30:54
also looking at this all hindsight. So, you have this guy that as far as, you know, major offenses, he tried to attack
00:31:02
somebody and now we think he's responsible for this murder. We don't have all this evidence. We don't have
00:31:09
all this proof. We don't have all the confessions that Ted gave. So, him being such a charming guy, I bet a lot of
00:31:17
these prison guards just thought, "Nah, this guy probably didn't do it." >> Mhm. you know, so it, you know, and with
00:31:24
him being so charming and almost so normal, you know, I could see why people would
00:31:30
be like, well, maybe he didn't do this at at the time. Well, you got to keep in mind, too, who are we dealing with? And
00:31:36
I don't think the authorities knew exactly who they were dealing with. Yeah, he was a law student, but he was
00:31:43
going into law with he wanted to be a politician, and you know, that's usually the way you come up. and he wasn't going
00:31:51
into law necessarily to practice law. I believe he wanted to be a politician. And if you follow his younger life,
00:31:57
especially when he was at um University of Washington, he's taking part in the Republican party. You know, he's he's
00:32:05
doing things. He's So, traditionally, what are politicians? They're people that are good at speaking and good at
00:32:11
talking and communicating with other people, >> lying, you know. >> Yeah. And so, this is who he is. I mean,
00:32:16
and we talked about he worked at that crisis hotline. This is a guy that liked to talk to people and uh and again it
00:32:24
lets their guard down. Well, I do have to fault this uh I do have to fault the people that worked at this jail because
00:32:33
they were warned. Okay. Now, and think about this, too. >> And this is the second jail
00:32:38
>> on behind the eyes between behind his, you know, he's he's a some people have
00:32:43
said he's a good-looking man. Maybe he's an average man. I don't know. But behind
00:32:47
this regularlook dude who who is outgoing and who is happy to speak with people and communicate with them, he's
00:32:55
charming. >> Behind those eyes inside, he looks like Frankenstein. You know, he looks like
00:33:02
Frankenstein's monster. And he he is an absolute monster. He's one of the worst of the worst. Now, if you could see him,
00:33:10
if he looked like Frankenstein's monster, they would have housed him in a much different way. And they didn't. As
00:33:16
you said, they didn't fully know what they were dealing with, but they were warned and they let their guard down.
00:33:22
And this is on them, you know, and actually things that would take place later. This I put that a lot of that on
00:33:29
them. Now, they put him in this cell. Okay? And at the on the ceiling, there was a light fixture. Now, this light
00:33:38
fixture should have been welded to the ceiling. That that would be the typical thing in most cells. This one was not.
00:33:44
And actually the uh the jail house, they talked about, you know, they looked at the light fixture before they put Ted
00:33:50
Bundy in that cell and they thought, "Eh, no, it doesn't need to be fixed. There's no way that he can get up
00:33:56
there." And furthermore, some of the other inmates start coming to the administrators and
00:34:04
to the warden and to the the correction officers and they're saying, >> you know, at night when we're in lying
00:34:10
in bed, we can hear somebody up in the up in the rafters, up in the ceiling, moving around at night.
00:34:18
>> Yeah. >> Uh and we're pretty sure it's it's Mr. Theodore Bundy over there. >> Yeah. I mean, cuz it it wasn't happening
00:34:25
before this guy shows up and now he's here and we hear this wrestling at night. >> Well, and what he did was he was getting
00:34:33
money. Okay. Uh again, everything going Ted's way. He was getting money because there were people back in Washington and
00:34:41
people in Utah that were friends of his and they thought he was innocent. There was actually not a whole lot of evidence
00:34:49
in this this murder trial. Mhm. >> Uh and he's he's working with his attorneys. He's assisting in his own
00:34:57
defense. And actually things are going his way in the court. You know, other than having the brochure, I'm sorry, for
00:35:04
other than having the map uh regarding the ski lodge, there's no real evidence other than the gas receipt and this and
00:35:12
this map to the ski lodge. Well, and this is before that DN I mean they had DNA, but this is, you know, I'm sure
00:35:19
that if DNA was uh more important back then, they probably would have some DNA in this case.
00:35:25
>> Well, maybe not because you got to keep in mind that this uh Campbell lady um at
00:35:31
at this point, she she had vanished. You know, they they don't know where she is.
00:35:36
>> Um >> All right. So, no body, >> correct? And the way that this attack went down, you know, she is she's a
00:35:44
nurse and she her boyfriend is a doctor where she works and he's older, he's divorced and he has some children and
00:35:52
they're on vacation together at this ski lodge and there's a heated pool outside
00:35:57
and um they were down poolside and she decided to return to the room to get a magazine or get something to read. Well,
00:36:05
she goes up to get her book or magazine and she's never seen again. He He snatched her somewhere between her
00:36:12
walking from the pool up to the room. >> So, again, not a lot of evidence and things are going his way in the
00:36:19
courtroom. He he this case might have gotten thrown out. He may have gotten a quiddle on this case because they were
00:36:26
what evidence they did have, he was starting to get it thrown out of the trial. And so, pretty much
00:36:32
circumstantial evidence, >> right? and he wasn't the main lawyer in this case. >> He's just assisting,
00:36:37
>> right? But I mean, he was a intellectual guy and and knew the system. So, I mean,
00:36:42
I I wonder how much uh he had influence over what was happening in the courtroom.
00:36:48
>> That I don't know. But, uh he, as I said, he was getting money from his friends from Washington and from Utah to
00:36:55
assist with his defense, you know, to to pay for whatever it is that he needs to
00:37:00
to uh get his acquitt. He had accumulated just over $700. >> Yeah. And like we talked about in the
00:37:08
previous episode, I mean, he worked not only was he, you know, a law student, but he worked u with the Republican
00:37:15
party and and by having those connections, he had people with power and money. >> Well, and $700 back then, I don't I
00:37:23
can't I don't know the math on it, but I'm guessing it would be about over, you know, $2,000 or more than $2,000 today.
00:37:30
>> Yeah. which is not a bad chunk of change if you're in jail. >> And somehow he he gets a uh now keep in
00:37:37
mind this is this is a jail so we have we do have a lot of nonviolent offenders that are serving time there. Um and so
00:37:45
they have different privileges. I'm sure that they have some kind of workhouse or
00:37:49
they're you know, as we talked about in the uh Texas 7, you know, that sometimes
00:37:54
people work uh as custodians or or repairmen inside the jail itself. Somehow Ted Bundy gets a hold of a saw.
00:38:05
Um so, not only does he have this light fixture that's not properly installed in
00:38:10
his cell, >> he accumulates a Saul. He has over $700 cash on him. Now, this is on New Year's
00:38:17
Eve. So, not only is their guard down because they might like the guy, but you know, they're probably not working as
00:38:24
hard as they should be on New Year's Eve >> and maybe less officers on duty. >> Well, you know, one thing that was
00:38:32
interesting that he was doing that they figured out was with the saw, cuz you think that would create a lot of noise,
00:38:37
right? he would wait till the other inmates were showering because that generates a lot of noise and that's when
00:38:43
he would be cutting and doing, you know, tearing things apart to create this escape route through the the light
00:38:50
fixture. Um, so what he does on New Year's Eve is he's got books and he's got his files for his trial in his cell
00:38:59
with him so he can be working on these things when he needs to. Mhm. >> He puts those he kind of piles them up
00:39:04
in his bed and puts the covers over top of it to look like somebody's sleeping in the bed.
00:39:09
>> Right. >> Climbs up into the light fixture into the the ceiling. And now he's running
00:39:13
around in the ceiling. And he drops down into they had like a an apartment that was attached to the building. And this
00:39:21
is where one of the higher level uh uh employees would live. And they happen to be out on a date because it's uh it's
00:39:29
>> New Year's Eve. Yeah. That's a night that you want to go out. You want to take your girl out.
00:39:33
>> Yeah. You want to get the midnight kiss, right? >> So, he drops down into this apartment
00:39:39
and he's able to obtain all of that employees civilian clothes. So, he he sneaks out of there
00:39:47
>> and they just so happen to fit him. >> Yeah. Well, I I don't know. But it's Bundy. Things seem to go his way.
00:39:53
>> He couldn't like they couldn't like have a husky guy, like a really husky guy,
00:39:58
>> like a 400 pounder, >> right? Um, so he's now wearing civilian clothes. He has money and he's he gets
00:40:07
out and what does he do? He buys a plane ticket and he flies to Chicago. >> Now, this is going to be this whole
00:40:15
adventure here. This is going to be, you know, uh, uh, planes, trains, and automobiles for Mr. Bundy because he
00:40:22
ends up in Chicago where in Chicago he takes a train to Michigan. in Michigan, he steals a car. Now, I read his account
00:40:31
on his car thievery. He was not a great car theft, but he said back in the 70s, you know, a lot of people would just
00:40:38
leave their keys in the car, you know, and they didn't lock their doors. So, >> at different times back then,
00:40:43
>> he would just find a a you know, a regular street with a lot of cars parked on it and just walk up to each one
00:40:49
checking the door handles. So, if it's unlocked, he would get in, look for a key, and he finds an unlocked door to a
00:40:55
car, and it finds the keys. I don't know if it was underneath the seat or up in the uh the visor,
00:41:01
>> but he, you know, he drives this car down to Atlanta, and then he takes a a bus. He wanted to go to Florida. He had
00:41:09
this planned out. He wanted to go to Florida. Why? Because, think about his victimology.
00:41:15
He likes college age attractive women. That's that's his victims. That's what he's looking for. He was probably
00:41:22
looking for something close to the water, you know, where >> there's it's no secret there's
00:41:27
good-looking ladies by the water, and there's plenty of colleges in every state, but there's plenty of colleges in
00:41:33
Florida. He doesn't get anything by the water, but he ends up in Tallahassee, Florida. Now, he he moves into a like a
00:41:42
boarding house, right? uh on the campus for Florida State University and he's posing as a grad student because by this
00:41:51
time he would have been he would have been in his 30s in his early 30s by this time. So he's not of the exact college
00:41:58
age but he's posing as a grad student and he's going by the name of Chris Hayden. Chris Hagen, I'm sorry.
00:42:05
>> Is this when he grew out a beard? I you know I'm not certain because if you look
00:42:09
if you if you follow the trail of Ted Bundy and you'll look at him throughout the years you know whether he be in
00:42:16
Washington, Utah, Colorado, Florida, >> you know he's he's in front of the camera a lot because he's arrested a
00:42:23
lot. He escapes a lot. >> Uh he's on several trials. Um but he is everchanging his appearance. You know
00:42:30
this was another thing that he did. This is, you know, the the the mastermind in
00:42:34
quotes uh serial killer. He's always changing his appearance. You will see pictures of him where he appears to be a
00:42:41
little heavier than other times, you know, and he might wear big bulky sweaters. Uh he has a beard at times.
00:42:47
He's clean shaven at other times. >> Yeah. Sometimes he has a mustache. >> Yeah. He has long hair sometimes. Other
00:42:52
times he has very short hair. Um, but he finds himself down in Florida State, uh,
00:42:57
in Tallahassee, and he is going to, this is in, uh, early 1978, uh, this is actually January 14th, he
00:43:07
has only been there for about 2 weeks. Now, he gets he gets to Florida State and on the night of January 14th, he's
00:43:16
going to go out and look for victims. He said he said many years later that his intention was to go to Florida and
00:43:25
assume uh an identity and become a regular guy, work a regular job and not commit any more crimes and he was just
00:43:33
going to live a regular life. >> Mhm. >> I don't believe that for a second because on the night of January 14th, he
00:43:40
goes to it's like a >> Hold on. I mean, that could have been his intent and then he gets down there
00:43:45
for a couple days, >> right? And then you have these urges and then you just are what you are. I mean
00:43:51
he he is just, you know, a devil in man form. >> You're exactly right. And and on the
00:43:56
night of January 14th, he goes to a dance club. It's like a disco tech. And he's trying to pick up young collegeage
00:44:04
women at this at this club. >> Well, he's not the Bundy of old, you know. He can't he can't do what he once
00:44:10
did. They these women didn't find him charming at all. They said he they they well
00:44:16
>> I I feel his pain. >> They said that he he was extremely creepy. He was his his eyes scared a lot
00:44:25
of them. His appearance scared a lot of them. He had these uh you know blue eyes
00:44:30
but and and in some ways they they are like you know it's a pretty blue color if you watch the interviews but man as
00:44:39
pretty of a blue as it is there's a super creep factor when you look into them. Well, I've heard some
00:44:46
investigators and some detectives and FBI agents say that, you know, I they say they can spot these type of monsters
00:44:54
and they say that the giveaway is in the eyes. Now, I've looked at more pictures
00:44:59
of serial killers than most people. And >> nine times, nine times out of 10, I can't see it. Uh once in a while, I can
00:45:06
with Bundy. There's some pictures out there when you his eyes aren't right. You know what I mean? Some pictures you
00:45:12
you can just see it. Well, and if you watch a lot of his interviews, especially um one of the interviews
00:45:19
before his death, uh he blinks so many times. I mean, it's like he's blinking three, four times more than a normal
00:45:29
person would blink. >> So, he's unable to pick anybody up at the at the disco. None of these women
00:45:36
will go with him, >> thank God. >> But what happens is he he has this urge that he has to fill. Remember I said
00:45:44
earlier this guy is addicted to what he's doing. He's addicted to killing. He's addicted to raping women. He's
00:45:50
going to end up with a victim that night or he's going to end up in jail or dead.
00:45:54
That's how this guy works, >> right? >> When he doesn't get anybody at the disco, next door is a sorority house.
00:46:01
And this is the Kai Omega sorority house. Now, I do got to point out here that I don't believe that he intended
00:46:09
when he left his apartment or his boarding house that day. When he left to go to the disco, I don't think he had
00:46:16
any plans of going into the sorority house. He clearly wanted to pick up somebody at the disco.
00:46:21
>> When that didn't work out to his way, he started scheming. He started planning.
00:46:25
>> Well, and like I said before, I mean, he's not just the opportunist killer. I
00:46:29
mean he he is want like so when he's going to the disco tech he is trying to create the opportunity.
00:46:35
>> Mhm. >> You know he's trying to lure somebody into his trap. When that doesn't work
00:46:39
out now I have to you know I'm now I'm going to go not create the opportunity. I'm going to try to find the
00:46:47
opportunity. And you heard in the news clip that we played earlier that the killer seemed to have just slipped into
00:46:53
an unlocked door into this Kyomega sorority house. What actually took place was he had gone there at some point late
00:47:01
that night and he found the door unlocked. Now, Ted being the criminal that he is,
00:47:08
>> well, I wonder how many houses I mean, just like when he went to steal cars, you know, he just keep checking and
00:47:14
checking. How many houses did he check that were locked? >> Well, he went and checked the sorority
00:47:20
house and then he decided to wait. He wanted to wait until he thought that most if not all of the girls inside
00:47:28
would be asleep. This would make his his attack much easier. And >> well, and like we talked about before,
00:47:34
the other attacks, he would attack somebody while somebody's sleeping in the next room. So, I mean, he's done
00:47:39
this before. >> Yeah. He's no stranger to this form of attack. He goes around to the back of
00:47:44
the sorority house and he finds a a log. Um, and he he goes into the sorority house and I I don't know how many uh
00:47:54
persons were living how many young ladies were living in there at the time, but he the short of it is he attacks
00:48:00
four of them. >> And he probably raped three or four of them while he was in there. But it was a
00:48:07
frenzied attack. He he went in with that log and he's bashing them over the head
00:48:11
while they sleep. And he's attacking them basically room by room. In the end, out of the four girls attacked, he ends
00:48:18
up killing two of them. He I believe that he probably thought that all four were dead before he left the house. When
00:48:26
he's when he's leaving, >> yeah, I want to assume that he'd just walk walk out thinking that, oh,
00:48:32
somebody's going to live after this. >> Now, here's somebody that gets lucky. As
00:48:36
he's leaving, there is a young lady that is kind of she is, let's say, hiding in
00:48:43
the shadows. She sees him leave. She She's able to make a a description. She's able to finger this guy, figure
00:48:53
out who this guy is because she sees his face as he's leaving and he's leaving the house with the log in hand.
00:49:00
>> He goes down the street, >> like I said, I mean, devil in man form. And in rather than so this young lady
00:49:08
has has she not only witnesses him leaving the house but she sees what took place in
00:49:16
the house very quickly after he leaves. So the police >> Well yeah she sees the carnage. Right.
00:49:22
>> Exactly. And she has notified the authorities. So Bundy rather than fleeing the area, I mean, he's he's out
00:49:29
walking around and can hear sirens >> Mhm. >> and another a gentleman driving a vehicle. He spots Bundy. He's down the
00:49:39
street and he's still holding this log. >> I'm sure there's He's covered in blood.
00:49:43
>> Oh, yeah. Definitely. And what does he do? Instead of fleeing the area, he This
00:49:48
is This is how much of a monster he is. Think about this. You know, I talked about him being addicted to killing.
00:49:54
This is like, you know, when when you have somebody that that is addicted to smack, all right, let's say you're
00:49:59
addicted to smack, right? >> And you decide you're going to go off and you're going to go live somewhere
00:50:03
for 6 months and get clean. You know, he was addicted to killing and he gets locked up for for quite a bit of time.
00:50:10
He can't kill anybody while he's locked up. And whether whether or not he actually intended to go live a regular
00:50:15
life, he he can't do that. This is like the the guy that gets clean and then goes out and binges one night and does
00:50:22
so much so many drugs that they end up dead, >> right? >> He's able to hold off only so long and
00:50:28
now he's going to binge. He's going to binge that night and he he attacks four women and just blocks away from the
00:50:35
sority house. He breaks into another home and he he attacks a woman there. uh that that attack is cut short because I
00:50:44
I don't know why he I don't know if the if something uh prevented him from from >> or if she fended off the attack
00:50:52
>> killing him all the killing her all the way or if he in this situation as well
00:50:56
thought that she was dead as well. He left there and then he goes to another home
00:51:01
>> and he has the intention of doing this again. Well, he he's unable to do so because somebody living this was like
00:51:08
one of those doubles, you know, and so there's a a neighbor that's sharing a wall. Well, the neighbor that's sharing
00:51:15
the wall starts banging and pounding on on the wall because they must have heard
00:51:20
him break break into the house. >> Yeah. >> Well, he is still not satisfied. So,
00:51:26
what what he does is he masturbates on the bed >> and then he then >> Hold on. I just I wasn't ready for all
00:51:34
that. >> Okay, continue. >> Okay. Then he leaves and he returns to his apartment. Now, some of his
00:51:40
neighbors see him that night and and the people that live um around the area. If
00:51:45
you if you could see pictures of this, everybody lives very very close. And he had actually spoke to plenty of plenty
00:51:51
of those people in the short time that he was there. Now, that night when he returns, these same people are talking
00:51:57
to him and they say he is he's not even like human. He doesn't even seem to be human.
00:52:03
>> That's what I said. I mean, I I I believe the two sides of him, you know, he's he's very much I mean, the the the
00:52:11
mythical, not not the devil with the horns and all that and, you know, like horse legs or whatever, but but the
00:52:19
devil when we talk about like the antichrist, right? and we talk about here's this guy that's going to come to
00:52:25
power and then and they're going to be so charming and they're going to be a great speaker and all these things.
00:52:31
That's like the two sides of him. The one side of him is here's this standup guy. He's sweet. He's charming. He's
00:52:38
he's a man on a mission. And then the other side of him is pure evil. >> Yeah. It's very devillike where you know
00:52:48
because because he was um given these talents of being outspoken, being um a charming individual. It let him do his
00:53:01
evil deeds. >> Mhm. Now it again he's in this like they say he looks like he's in a trance and
00:53:08
and as you were saying, you know, this is like the monster rising to the top of the water. You know what I mean? He he
00:53:14
the monster has come out in him and he can't suppress this monster that night. And even though he's left and he's
00:53:20
returned to his apartment, he's still in this frenzy. And they say he's incoherent. He can barely talk. Uh he
00:53:28
doesn't make any sense. Um well, and I wonder if he would get into some kind of uh you murderous zen state, you know,
00:53:38
the because of the adrenaline because of the addiction. You know I if this is if we think that there is some
00:53:46
sort of addiction and there's some sort of high he's getting then what kind of state does that bring him into?
00:53:53
>> Well, it's like what what OJ said right in the in his book if I did it? >> Yeah.
00:53:58
>> You know what does he say that well if I would have done it I would have been in
00:54:01
a in a state that you know I wouldn't have known what was going on and I would have felt like I blacked out and when I
00:54:07
come to then I see the result of what has happened. Um, you know, almost like you're some murderous zombie or
00:54:14
something temporarily or the wolf man. >> Um, he >> you keep on bringing up like the wolf
00:54:20
man in uh Frankenstein. No, he's the devil. I mean, this is by all I mean, this is evil monster.
00:54:28
>> Well, not too long after this horrible attack at the Ka Omega sorority house,
00:54:33
he attacks um a young girl. She's a 12-year-old uh girl and he he takes her from uh her school. This is much like we
00:54:42
saw that he did in Utah. Um and he ends up getting caught, right? They they chase him down in Pensacola Colola,
00:54:51
Florida, and he's apprehended. And now he is they they want to question him about this stuff in Florida because it's
00:54:59
all very obvious to them right now, right? It's very obvious that we got this horrible dude. We had no clue who
00:55:06
did this killing at Ky Omega, but now we we've apprehended Ted Bundy who's capable certainly capable of doing these
00:55:13
things. And then on top of that, we have the lady that that saw him leaving that
00:55:17
night. She identifies Ted Bundy as the guy that was leaving. >> We have the other three that were
00:55:22
attacked that are still alive. >> We we I I don't think they were able to identify him. I think they were attacked
00:55:28
so brutally that uh >> possibly or in the dark too. >> Well, and on top of it, I think he hit
00:55:33
them when they were sleeping. Yeah. >> So, they they may have been uh unconscious the entire time hopefully.
00:55:39
>> Right. But we have the lady leaving. We got the guy driving his car. We have the
00:55:44
other lady being attacked in the double that could have identified him. >> Well, the other people that identified
00:55:50
him were all the girls that he went up to at the disco tech that was right next door to the sorority house. They were
00:55:55
like >> creepy old dude. They're like, "Yes, that's the guy that was at the So, so
00:55:59
they know he just from those girls, they know he was at least next door." And then they he's spotted with the with the
00:56:05
killing weapon with the log in his hand coming out of the sorority house by the other girl.
00:56:10
>> I mean, I'm glad we're covering this case cuz being 35, I mean, I I just I'm clearly too old to go to the disco tech.
00:56:18
>> That's you would have you would strike out every time. So he decides that he is
00:56:24
going to uh represent himself in at his trial for the uh the deaths of the Kaio Omega girls.
00:56:32
>> Yeah. >> Uh I say girls, but you know I'm I'm an old dude. They're they're young ladies.
00:56:37
>> Um now I tell you what I >> you tell me what >> I'm going to tell you. You tell me what
00:56:45
>> you, anybody listening, if you have any extra time today or later this week, >> Google and find some clips of Ted Bundy
00:56:54
representing himself at trial. And I tell you what, I don't want to try to make humor out of such a a tragedy and
00:57:01
such a horrible situation. However, there are some what I find to be >> humorous parts of that trial because
00:57:09
>> very humorous. Yeah. He he's sitting there at the table. I'll give you one story, right?
00:57:14
>> Okay. >> He's sitting at the table and um there's an officer that is being um he's up on
00:57:21
the stand >> and he's giving his testimony. And now Bundy's going to have the opportunity to
00:57:26
cross-examine the witness. >> Yeah. I mean, like, look, just the fact that we know hindsight,
00:57:33
right, that he's one of the most notorious serial killers of all time. uh he was on his defense before. Now he's
00:57:41
escaping, you know, he uh escaped from jail twice. Now he created these other murders. Now he's not on the defense
00:57:49
team. He is the defense. >> Yes. And he he has people counsel that he's working with. And you can see this
00:57:55
on some of these clips, but in this clip in particular, he's like he's like leaning back in his chair and he's
00:58:01
talking to I guess the the people assisting in his defense. and he's got one of those long yellow legal pads and
00:58:07
he's like kind of making some notes on it, but he's supposed to already be standing up and cross-examining the
00:58:13
witness. >> So, the judge has to remind him, you know, but this must have taken place
00:58:18
multiple times that that he's just not ready because the the judge doesn't even explain to him, you need to be ready.
00:58:24
The judge just simply calls out Bundy, >> right? Because look, he went to law school, but he didn't finish. And and
00:58:31
so, yeah, you can defend yourself, but they're going to treat you like you should know what the heck to do. And
00:58:37
clearly, he doesn't know what to do. And he thinks he is so smart that he can outsmart the system. So, he's parading
00:58:44
around as if he watched a bunch of Matlock series, you know, like he's walking around like one, his [ __ ] don't
00:58:51
stink. And I I was born to do this. >> Yeah. And he has this very odd thing where he is disassociating himself with
00:59:01
the murderer. So he's Bundy the lawyer in his brain and he's defending Bundy the killer which he clearly doesn't
00:59:10
think he's the killer. >> No. And the jud the judge just calls out Bundy and then Ted Bundy gets up and
00:59:17
it's he's going to cross-examine this officer that's just, you know, told his whole story,
00:59:21
>> right? And so he asked the officer, he says, "You know, officer, when was the
00:59:26
first time that you spoke with Theodore Robert Bundy?" And the officer says, "Well, I spoke to you on this date." And
00:59:33
he says, "Was that at this location?" And the officer says, "Yes, it was at this location." He says,
00:59:39
>> "What time did you speak to Theodore Robert Bundy?" And again, the officer who's getting pissed off because of the
00:59:47
the >> arrogance >> of this guy. Yeah. the odd oddness of this >> of this. Yeah. This crazy situation. He
00:59:54
says, "I spoke to you. I spoke to you on this date at this location. I don't remember what time it was."
01:00:00
>> Right. I spoke to you, not this guy that you keep asking. >> And Ted Bunny goes, "Well, then u how
01:00:04
how do we know what you're saying is true if you don't if you cannot recall the time that you cannot you there's no
01:00:11
record of this uh conversation with Mr. Theodore Robert Bundy?" And the officer getting a little heated says again I
01:00:18
know I spoke to you at this location. >> Yeah. >> And then Ted goes, "No further
01:00:23
questions, your honor." And then he goes and sits down. >> My favorite story of the or my favorite
01:00:29
thing that I noticed when I was watching the the the footage is he at one point he's making some statement and I maybe
01:00:37
he's talking to a copper. I I can't remember who he's he's he's talking to somebody on the stand and you can tell
01:00:43
that he's just really enjoying himself and he thinks he's winning. You can like the as the trial goes on and on,
01:00:51
>> he has swagger about him in the courtroom. >> Yeah. But it's like as it goes on and
01:00:55
on, the swagger becomes more and more like I got this [ __ ] right. So then he's
01:01:01
talking to some witness and he goes over to the jury. you know how lawyers do, like I'm going to go approach the jury
01:01:08
and and then get them on my side. And he approaches them and he kind of leans towards them and and the defense at this
01:01:15
point uh or the prosecution at this point actually thinks we don't know what the read on the jury is.
01:01:22
>> Mhm. >> That they thought this guy is very charming and very intelligent, at least
01:01:29
in the courtroom, and maybe the jury is buying this stuff. Well, when he leaned towards the jury, all the jury members
01:01:37
leaned away from him. >> And I think you even hear one of them kind of gasp like, "Oh, we didn't
01:01:42
realize we're going to get that close to him." >> Right. Right. Yeah. We understand that
01:01:46
he's the lawyer, but he's the killer. So, I think they knew at that moment, no, the jury is afraid of him and and
01:01:54
probably based off that fear, he'd be found guilty. >> Yeah. And you're exactly right that you
01:01:59
you do not have a good defense if the jury itself is afraid of you, you know. Um, and it didn't take long to convict
01:02:06
him. Uh, the trial might have been longer than it needed to be, but on July 24th, 1979, they deliberated, the jury
01:02:13
deliberated for less than 7 hours before convicting him of two murders in the Ka
01:02:19
Omega attack and including uh three counts of attempted first-degree murder for the other victims as well. Um this
01:02:28
at the at the trial the judge uh he does impose death sentences for the murder convictions
01:02:35
>> and this is happening in Florida. So uh they don't dillydally around. They're
01:02:41
not going to wait 30 years to try to kill you. >> Yeah. And you know what? There is a
01:02:45
strange situation regarding the Bundy case itself. Um there I read this um and I I think it might just be a rumor
01:02:56
so I'm not going to say where I read it. Uh but there's a statement that that when Bundy was working with his council
01:03:04
in the state of Colorado when he was going through that trial before he escaped the second time and made it all
01:03:10
the way to Florida. that during the course of working with his council, he had asked the attorney, you know, what
01:03:17
state are they most likely to put you to death for murder? And the attorney had told him, probably Georgia. No, no,
01:03:27
wait. Florida. Florida seems, you know, they seem to execute people faster there. Um, and you know, nowadays we
01:03:33
know it as Texas, um, you know, that executes people the fastest, but back then it may have been Florida. And you
01:03:41
know, if if that is true that he asked the attorney that and then he then he went to Florida, do you think he think
01:03:48
he had a death wish? Do you think he had a some kind of, you know, there's something to that?
01:03:54
>> Yeah. I wonder if you, like I said, I mean, there's kind of two sides of him and maybe on some level, you know, he
01:04:03
realized, look, I'm I'm not I can't stop. Well, I there was another serial killer um and he's been put to death
01:04:10
since this, but uh I heard him say in an interview that he was trying to speed up
01:04:16
the course of the death sentence. He wanted to be executed as fast as possible. And his explanation for this
01:04:22
was, I kill people. That's what I I absolutely love and enjoy killing people, and if I ever get out, I'm going
01:04:31
to kill a whole bunch of people. And he doesn't even think it's wrong. In his opinion, killing people is not wrong.
01:04:35
This serial killer, >> right? >> And he says, "But I'm locked up and I'm in prison and I can't kill anybody in
01:04:42
here. So, I don't want to be on this planet any longer." >> Right? And you know what this particular
01:04:48
killer did was he act he actually killed somebody while he was in prison because
01:04:54
they wouldn't speed up his his death sentence. >> Well then yeah let's I'm going to make
01:05:00
uh I'm going to make myself a real big problem in here and start killing people in prison. Well
01:05:05
>> and and then you're going to have that on your head and you're going to have to
01:05:08
get rid of me. >> You're you're exactly right. That's exactly what happened because the court
01:05:11
system come out and they say, "Well, you have to go to trial for this other death
01:05:15
now." And he comes back to the prison the the prison administrators and the court system and he says, "Guess what?
01:05:21
I'm going to, you know, if you're going to delay my death sentence, I'm going to
01:05:24
keep killing people in prison every chance I get until then and all those deaths will be on your head."
01:05:30
So, I don't know if that if the thing with Bundy is absolutely true or not, but I did find it interesting that he
01:05:36
asked about what state would kill him or kill someone the fastest. >> Yeah. I wonder where where he's going
01:05:42
through and and once he gets to jail, we're going to see him really start opening up uh and what his what is his
01:05:49
motivation to for talking about these other killings. I'm not really for sure. Maybe to to stay off the death penalty
01:05:56
for a while. I'm I'm not really for sure. I can't get into I can't get inside the devil's brain, but there's so
01:06:03
much more to talk about with Bundy and then his involvement in another case, and that's something I think we should
01:06:09
get to tomorrow. So, how about a recommended reading? >> Yeah. You know, sometimes when we do
01:06:16
these double episodes for a case, I don't always have two books to present. Um, but there's so many bungee
01:06:22
>> because you don't like doing your job. >> That's right. Slacking off. Uh, but
01:06:27
>> he doesn't like you. He doesn't want you to read and get smart people. >> There's a lot of Ted Bundy books out
01:06:32
there and uh there's a lot of good ones. And this one is one that came out relatively recently. This is called I
01:06:39
Survived Ted Bundy by Rhonda Stapley. Now, who is Ronda Stapley? Well, she was a good innocent Mormon girl. And of
01:06:47
course, Ted Bundy is one of the most notorious serial killers of American history. Well, their paths crossed one
01:06:53
quiet autumn afternoon. And you'd hear her in our first trailer. >> Yeah. The first episode of Ted Bundy,
01:07:00
she's the one that got in the vehicle. She She missed the bus and she was waiting for the next bus and decided to
01:07:07
hitchhike with and she got into the wrong car. Now, this is a situation, too, where he thought he had
01:07:13
successfully killed her. Um, I recommend picking this book up. It's called I Survived Ted Bundy by Ronda Stapley. Uh,
01:07:20
another interesting thing with this book, too, is Anne Rule did the forward. Well, who is Anne Rule? Well, she is the
01:07:26
woman. She's very famous. She's uh God rest her soul. She was one of the best true crime authors of all time. Uh she
01:07:34
passed away, I believe, two years ago. Um but she, as said, one of the best true crime authors of all time. She
01:07:41
happened to work with Ted Bundy at the crisis hotline. >> Yeah. She's the lady that called in the
01:07:48
tip about him. >> Exactly. So, she wrote the forward for this book and I believe that she had a
01:07:53
hand in getting it published as well. So, pick up I survived Ted Bundy by Rhonda Stapley. You can do that by going
01:07:59
to true crimegar.com and click click on the recommended page. You'll see our books that we recommended on there. You
01:08:05
click on the Amazon banner. You buy the book. You buy some things for Christmas.
01:08:10
It helps out our show. >> Yeah, because you can buy anything through that banner. I just bought a
01:08:15
really nice fancy coffee mug. Uh, it says, uh, coffee makes me poop. Um, you know, you can pick up anything on
01:08:23
Amazon. That's my goal every week is to try to find something very odd, uh, to buy through Amazon. And it gives a
01:08:30
little love back to Nick and the captain. >> That cool parlor guitar that you were
01:08:33
showing me. Is that is that something pick up on Amazon? >> Yeah, I I bought a little acoustic
01:08:37
guitar. I I'll sing a little song on Instagram someday. Okay. Uh anyways, for everything for anything or everything
01:08:46
True Crime Garage, check out true crimegar.com and again social media, Snapchat,
01:08:51
Instagram now with Untapped if you want to follow Nick's beer journey. All that is trueime garage.
01:08:58
>> And I should point out, you know, you say now I'm on Untapped. Uh I've actually been on there for a long time
01:09:04
under a different name. I'm just under True Crime Garage now. So I'm easy to find if you want to try to send me a
01:09:09
friend request. Uh, even if it's Veronica who thinks I'm just okay, that that might be acceptable. Um, but so
01:09:16
when you get on there, don't assume that I just signed up like a week ago and and
01:09:20
I've consumed 1,600 beers in the course of that time. I've been on there for a while. So,
01:09:25
>> he drinks a lot of beer. >> True Crime and Beer. That's what we do. >> The one thing I wanted to mention, too,
01:09:31
trueg.com. You know, my favorite part of our website is the blog. I I like when when
01:09:36
listeners get on there and they post things and we we read them and we respond. But my favorite is when a
01:09:40
listener will post something and some of these some of our listeners have really
01:09:44
good theories and really good insight on some of these cases and they bring up good questions. But my favorite is when
01:09:50
other listeners respond to those posts. >> Right. Right. Responding to the listeners.
01:09:55
>> Yeah. Cuz I get to get on there just like a regular fan and and read what everybody's posting and we don't claim
01:10:02
crime fix that day. >> Yeah. We're not experts, you know, we're just >> within these four walls. We are
01:10:07
>> well, we're experts of the garage and but that's about it. And it's really about this community, you know, we call
01:10:13
it the true crime army and uh you know, maybe we're not your favorite show, but we're your second favorite show, right?
01:10:21
But it's a big community and by bringing attention to these cases and being fans
01:10:26
of this genre, uh we are starting to make a difference in in the actual world. >> Mhm. Anyways, thanks for the support in
01:10:33
season 3. I hope you're enjoying this multiple part on Ted Bundy. Happy season 3 finale.
01:10:41
>> This is part two. >> We're gearing up for season 4. >> Part three tomorrow. >> Tomorrow coming at you live.
01:10:48
>> Well, it won't be live, but >> until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.
01:10:56
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