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$9.99 Ashley For the Love of [Music] [Music] home [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
00:01:47
you are whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me
00:01:52
as always is a man who would like to be your Valentine here is the captain yeah pucker up buttercup it's it's good to be
00:02:00
seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend this week we are very happy to be
00:02:11
featuring Devil's paint Box by the hardworking Brewers over at Tangled Roots Brewing Company Devil's paint box
00:02:18
is a West Coast style IPA it's bitter with some very good Citrus hop flavor much like parts of Devil's paint box of
00:02:27
maias State Park which is described as a shock of color this beer pours to a striking burnt orange in a glass this
00:02:36
medium bodied IPA burst with Juicy Citrus notes like lime and grapefruit tangle Roots Brewing says it's just
00:02:45
devish refreshing garage gr three and 3/4 bottle caps out of five and let's give some thanks and praise to our
00:02:52
friends that helped us out with this week's beer fun first up a shout out to Laura Lampley sending her love for the
00:02:59
show from Shelby North Carolina and a big shout out to Laurel Mason and Loganville Georgia next we have Josh and
00:03:07
beautiful Charleston South Carolina and last but certainly not least we have Nikki in Denver everyone we mentioned
00:03:14
they went to our website they clicked on the Pint glass and that helped us out with this week's beer run and for that
00:03:19
we thank you yeah bwe and beer run you know you need more True Crime garage for your earballs so check out our show
00:03:28
called off the Record on patreon or through the Apple subscription and Colonel that's enough of the business
00:03:35
all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music]
00:03:58
crime [Music] the murders at Starved Rock State Park were quickly dubbed the crime of the
00:04:08
century by locals three innocent prominent women were coralled and murdered in a State Park in
00:04:16
Illinois the murders were horrifying the news was National and portions of the park were
00:04:23
closed the murders had to be the work of a sex crazed maniac and thus an arrest should be
00:04:30
imminent but the triple homicide investigation was a complicated one the case to make an arrest was going
00:04:38
to be a slow and tedious process the clues were convoluted the suspects all seemed to know one another
00:04:47
and the lack of a good eyewitness was surprising the ones that got it right from the beginning were those local
00:04:54
folks who called the Starved Rock murders the crime of the century because because while several other cases have
00:05:01
been titled the same this case just like those other ones is still heavily discussed and debated to this very day
00:05:11
this is true crime garage and this is the Starved Rock [Music] [Music] murders [Music]
00:05:35
the Starved Rock State Park is a gorgeous State Park located in laau County Illinois the park is
00:05:43
characterized by and known for the many Canyons within the park over 2600 Acres now we will be going back in time to
00:05:52
1960 for this week's case and we should note that the park has grown considerably over those decades so back
00:06:02
in 1960 not quite 2600 Acres but still a very large State Park we will be discussing the St Louis Canyon that is
00:06:14
inside of this beautiful Park specifically in these episodes the park is situated along the South Bank of the
00:06:21
Illinois River Lal County location Think Central North Illinois so this is about
00:06:29
a an hour and 40 minute drive west of Chicago starv rock gets over 2 million visitors annually and this is the most
00:06:40
visited state park in the state of Illinois the Land of Lincoln also known as the Prairie State we mentioned the
00:06:47
many Canyons these are exposed rock Canyons the park is also known for its unique especially to this area of the
00:06:55
country its unique topography and unfortunately the park is also Al known for its violent history that's right
00:07:02
tragedy is an old story to Starved Rock State Park the park is steeped in American Indian lore and takes its name
00:07:12
from a legend over 250 years old now according to that Legend a band of Illinois Indians was forced to the top
00:07:22
of a huge Rock by some Ottawa Braves this is way back in 1767 and the Illinois Indians starved
00:07:31
there ever since then the spot was known as Starved Rock Legend also says that Starved Rock was the place where an
00:07:38
American Indian princess and her lover beix were attacked by an unfriendly tribe when the Warriors killed beix and
00:07:47
threatened to take the princess captive she jumped 140 feet to her death into the Illinois River the Starved Rock
00:07:55
murders is just one of the most infamous homicide cases in the state's history history that along with the Hendrick
00:08:01
family murders the Lane Bryant shootings and serial killer John Wayne gasy amongst others all of those true crime
00:08:09
stories have been covered here on True Crime garage so no stranger to tragedy Starved Rock State Park where three
00:08:16
prominent Chicago area women were found murdered on Wednesday March 16th 1960 in the late 19th century Parkland
00:08:26
Round starv Rock was developed as a vac Resort the resort was later acquired by the state in
00:08:33
1911 for a state park which of course it remains today the area around The Rock was designated a National Historic
00:08:42
Landmark in 1960 which is oddly enough the same year as the murders that we will be discussing in the garage so now
00:08:52
Captain we go back in time to 1960 and we will start our timeline off on Monday March 14th
00:09:00
1960 we have three women three very good friends this is Francis Murphy she is 47
00:09:07
years old we have Mildred linquist she's 50 and lilianne oding who is 50 as well
00:09:14
these friends are the wives of three prominent Chicago area businessmen at times they are also referred to as the
00:09:22
three Riverside matrons all were mothers and two of them were grandmothers the three friends are going to the Starved
00:09:31
Rock Lodge for a 4-day trip to Starved Rock State Park the three were looking forward to hiking the manyi trails
00:09:39
sightseeing they were interested in bird watching and photography now keep in mind this is mid March in the northern
00:09:46
part of Illinois so when they get the starv rock there's a decent amount of snow on the ground Mrs Francis Murphy
00:09:56
Mrs Mildred linquist and Mrs Lily and oding the three had driven the 90 miles from Chicago to the picturesque Starved
00:10:05
Rock the morning of Monday March 14th arriving in time for lunch the lodge has a dining area so they checked into their
00:10:15
rooms and then sat down together for lunch after eating they put on their hiking clothes and went for a long walk
00:10:23
in the snow and as The Story Goes they are never seen alive again let's dive a little bit more into the background here
00:10:32
yes and this is a very important part of this true crime story unfortunately Lilian oding her husband George had had
00:10:41
some health complications for months before the trip Lilian had watched over her husband George who had suffered a
00:10:48
heart attack and from my understanding Captain this would be about four months before their trip so her friends Mildred
00:10:56
and Francis believe that lilan deserved some rest and relaxation to get away for
00:11:02
a little bit but before lilan left George's side these are very dedicated husband and wife here she's been caring
00:11:09
for him for months now she made her husband promise to her look while I'm gone you've got to take it easy you got
00:11:18
to take care of yourself and you have to promise me to answer the phone because I'm going to be calling you regularly to
00:11:25
check in making sure that all is well with you and all as well with the house yeah makes sense George agrees she's
00:11:33
been a great wife taking care of him now unfortunately when the call didn't come
00:11:39
in George decides he's going to reach out to her so he calls the lodge and ask for his wife's room so the switchboard
00:11:48
operator attempts to connect him with his wife but there's no answer in her room Tuesday evening George still had
00:11:59
heard from his wife so he makes additional attempts and still no one picked up the ringing phone in room 109
00:12:06
where she was staying the desk clerk on duty told George that he was welcome to leave a note and that they would pass it
00:12:13
to his wife when they saw her or when she checked in with the desk the message George left was very simple it just said
00:12:22
please call home immediately now early on the morning of Wednesday March 16th George tried and failed once again to
00:12:31
reach his wife via phone so around 6:45 a.m. Captain George's brother his name is Herman he's going to get involved
00:12:41
he's trying to call as well and he's having no luck by phone getting a hold of his his sister-in-law aging Mr Herman
00:12:49
so now he asked the desk clerk could you go and check lilian's room and knock on
00:12:56
the door for the other rooms as well to check with with the ladies it was then that the clerk reported back to Herman
00:13:03
that said look we knocked on the door no answers we went in the beds in the rooms
00:13:08
appeared to still be neatly made almost as they haven't been slept in at all right and the lady's bags remained
00:13:17
inside the rooms unpacked now before we get too far into the story there's a lot
00:13:24
of different Source material out there there's a lot of great reporting there's a lot of interesting
00:13:32
speculation in this True Crime Story there's a lot of controversy here too and you will'll see why as we go through
00:13:38
the story if you're not familiar with the star rock murders but several of the sources will
00:13:45
state that some items were in fact actually unpacked so there's a little bit of a debate on the ladies bags were
00:13:54
untouched unpacked found in their rooms but to be perfectly clear the thing that
00:14:00
is not debated is that the bags were found and and mostly the items that they brought with them were still in their
00:14:08
luggage when the rooms were checked days after their arrival getting this information Herman then tells the desk
00:14:17
clerk could you or go to or send someone to check the parking lot right there should be a station wagon in the parking
00:14:26
lot the ladies travel together in one of their vehicles did a little car pull you
00:14:32
should find a station wagon in the parking lot with the license plate that carried a Riverside sticker they're from
00:14:39
Riverside which is a suburb of Chicago I don't know what news they were hoping to
00:14:44
hear but what they are told is yes in fact we do have a vehicle matching that description with a Riverside sticker and
00:14:53
it's parked in a spot near the main Lodge entrance I'm assuming this would be not what they want to hear here
00:14:58
because you would hope that maybe they're out somewhere together in the vehicle traveling about and that's why
00:15:03
no one's been able to connect with one of the ladies in now what is not quite 48 hours but almost two days of attempts
00:15:15
so this is when Herman calls francis's husband one of the other ladies his name is Robert Murphy he then calls Mildred's
00:15:24
husband as well Robert linquist they too confirm that they have not heard from their wives since they left for the trip
00:15:32
now Mr Murphy contacted Lal County Sheriff Ray uty to report the women missing the chief of the Illinois State
00:15:43
Police was called in to assist as well so now they're reported missing by both the county sheriff and to the Illinois
00:15:51
State Police as well and they're going to have to organize a search or or start looking for these ladies there's no
00:15:59
reason why these men shouldn't be able to get in contact with one or all three of these ladies yeah and this is going
00:16:06
to be a pretty big search because the the park is pretty large so late Wednesday morning parties of state and
00:16:14
local police and volunteers fanned out across Starved Rock by that time a severe winter storm had moved into the
00:16:22
region dumping several inches of snow that will most certainly add to the challenge of people trekking through the
00:16:31
area this is rugged terrain at parts of the park looking for these ladies the vehicle is there you would make the easy
00:16:41
assumption that you should be able to find them somewhere in the park having found their vehicle in the parking lot
00:16:48
despite the inclement weather and the amount of area to search and the rugged terrain it only takes
00:16:58
about 90 minutes for a volunteer group of boys from a forestry camp for juvenile
00:17:05
offenders to come upon the battered bloody bodies of all three women they are found in a shallow cave within that
00:17:16
St Louis Canyon one of the Park's most scenic locations it was shocking to me looking into this case that you can
00:17:22
actually that there's actual crime scene photos available I agree Captain they are very shocking and and hard to um
00:17:32
hard to to comprehend what you are seeing there we may have had an eyewitness or two that spotted the
00:17:39
ladies and we will get into each detail as we go but first Captain I have a general overview of the crimes and the
00:17:47
crime scene as reported in the newspaper later that week now I want to preface by
00:17:55
offering up a caveat we are not saying that everything in this newspaper report is absolute fact for those familiar with
00:18:03
this case regardless of which Camp you are in I think the reasonable folks will agree that there is much to debate in
00:18:10
this case but this is a good overview as presented by the Galesburg register Mail
00:18:16
newspaper this is from that Thursday plus I love how a lot of these 1960s journalists would present the stories of
00:18:25
the day or in this case the week mind we often hear and see in print the words the crime of the century this case 2
00:18:37
received that label many times over in the great state of Illinois especially in 1960 and 61 well again it's a vicious
00:18:45
murder for one two the photos are out in the public for everybody to see it's not
00:18:54
just one victim it's three victims so then the question starts coming is this one murderer is this two murderers is
00:19:02
this a group of people and how could this happen yeah how could this happen in a state park how could it happen to
00:19:10
these individuals I think it just puts everybody because of the brutality of the crime it puts everybody on high
00:19:18
alert we've seen this in other cases the one that comes to mind is the Phantom killer when those crimes happen it's
00:19:26
like the whole town shut down I'll kick this overview off with the reminder of an
00:19:33
important detail it is regarded by most is fact that the three women were last seen on Monday March 14th 1960 this is
00:19:42
just after lunchtime there is snow on the ground before the ladies arrive at starv Rock the day after they are
00:19:49
believed to have been last seen on Tuesday March 15th the area gets blanketed with we said earlier inches of
00:19:57
snow some Reports say close to a foot of snow the bodies were not discovered until Wednesday March 16th and the
00:20:04
article that we will be referencing here was in the newspaper the following day March 17th so skipping the headline the
00:20:13
article reads in part police burned through a heavy layer of snow with flamethrowers in search of Clues to the
00:20:22
sex murders of three matrons whose bodies were found half nude in a authorities said more than one sex
00:20:31
maniac probably was involved in the murders but they said they had no suspects and few Clues the women all
00:20:40
neighbors of a fashionable Chicago suburb and wives of prominent Executives Met Death while on a hiking Expedition
00:20:48
at Rugged Starved Rock State Park the bodies were found in pools of Frozen blood their clothing torn and their
00:20:58
skirts pulled over their heads quote it was a sex crime the most horrible I've seen in my 19 years as a policeman said
00:21:08
Police Superintendent William H moris moris said the only Clues police had were a 3- foot long log a pair of broken
00:21:18
binoculars and a dented camera all were found in or near the cave and covered with blood the log was regarded as as
00:21:28
the murder weapon the camera and binoculars might have been damaged when the women made a desperate effort to
00:21:35
defend themselves mois said police would try to find other Clues by using improvised flamethrowers to melt the
00:21:42
snow on the canyon floor around the cave quote we don't know what we'll find but
00:21:49
something has to give Morris said officials said the women apparently were way laid while they hiked through the
00:21:56
woods despite a Fierce struggle they were dragged into the cave either alive or dead an autopsy conducted disclosed
00:22:06
all the women had been raped and died of fractured skulls police theorized sex Killers followed the women into a box
00:22:14
canyon and trap them there the area is at the far end of the park a mile from the lodge and had only one entrance The
00:22:23
Killers apparently used the club and an icicle to attack the women the bodies were dragged through the snow
00:22:30
to a sand cave in a cliff 5T above the canyon floor the bodies appear to have been deliberately arranged in line at
00:22:38
the mouth of the cave when the women did not call home as expected Tuesday night
00:22:44
the husbands raised the alarm and a search was organized five boys from a nearby camp for problem adolescence
00:22:51
found the bodies the cave was only a few yards away from a frozen waterfall which
00:22:57
the women apparently ly walked out to admire the three Riverside matrons whose bludge and bodies were found in starv
00:23:04
Rock State Park had much more in common than death they were as friends and members knew pillars of their Community
00:23:12
devoted to home church and civil Affairs they are already deeply missed by many in this grief stricken Community they
00:23:21
were said a sorrowed friend exceptionally happy women and happy companions probably their most common
00:23:29
Bond was Faith so there there's a lot of information in that article and a lot of
00:23:35
really startling and disturbing depictions of the crime scene and what the victims may have endured during the
00:23:45
commission of these crimes one thing we need to cycle back to is the statement that autopsies were conducted and it was
00:23:55
confirmed that all three victims had been raped or sexually assaulted that would make some sense given how the
00:24:01
victims were found now it's a little bit of an embellishment to say that the skirts were pulled up over their heads
00:24:08
Captain you've seen the pictures I've seen the pictures we've reviewed a lot of different Source material on this
00:24:14
case that's an embellishment it the the skirts were pulled up with how cold it was and with the snow frankly I'm a
00:24:20
little surprised that they were out there hiking and skirts to begin with right but nonetheless that is the
00:24:26
situation so the the lower half halves of the women were exposed whether that was done to assault the women or to
00:24:35
shock whoever may end up finding them we can't say but what I can say is the rape
00:24:43
and sexual assault angle of this has been heavily debated over the decades in this case because the other Factor here
00:24:52
is that the motive for these murders has been heavily debated as well there are there is Source material out there like
00:25:00
this one that says yes the victims were raped there is Source material that says
00:25:05
maybe one victim was actually sexually assaulted and then there are other materials that say there was no sexual
00:25:13
assault at all that they were just displayed that they were just positioned this way for whatever reason yeah almost
00:25:19
like it was a ruse if I position him in this manner then people are going to assume that the motivation is sexual
00:25:27
eventually later law enforcement is going to say the motivation was different I think you're you hit the
00:25:34
nail on the head when you start questioning the idea of were they out there to hike where they were found
00:25:40
compar compared to where the lodge was it it was a very long distance there's also eyewitnesses that saw them at other
00:25:49
parts of the park before that they were obviously before they went missing so I think it's you can even question were
00:25:59
they out there on their own accord or were they taken out there by somebody yes and that is one angle of the
00:26:07
investigation that I think we're going to be able to clear up as we go through now the victims we have Mrs Mildred
00:26:16
linquist age 50 Mrs lilan oding age 50 and Mrs Francis Murphy she's 47 all attended and were prominent in the
00:26:26
Affairs of the Pres Presbyterian Church of Riverside so they all attended the same church and I believe there is a
00:26:32
plaque that is there to this day in that church and Memorial of these three women
00:26:38
and their involvement with this church Mrs Murphy's husband Robert he's the vice president and general counsel for
00:26:48
Borg Warner Corporation Mrs Murphy was an avid Rose grower once the editor of the Moline dispatch and served on the
00:26:59
grade school board she was the mother of four children Mrs oding belonged to the
00:27:05
Riverside Garden Club she enjoyed Shakespeare she was the mother of three children her husband is George he is
00:27:13
George oding the general supervisor of internal audits for Illinois Bell Telephone Company a shocked neighbor
00:27:20
said Mrs oding is one of the kindest most compassionate persons I've ever known Mrs linquist mother of two
00:27:27
daughters was a member of the Riverside Grade School Board of Education she was a past president of the Riverside
00:27:34
Friends of the library program and a stunned friend said quote she had a marvelous personality her husband Robert
00:27:42
lanquist is the vice president of the Harris trust and Savings Bank in Chicago so when we say prominent members of the
00:27:49
community of this Riverside Community and we give the little background of things that they were involved with
00:27:58
and their husband's occupations we can see obviously that they are labeled properly here as prominent members of
00:28:06
the community and their husbands have these important jobs in in in remarkable careers now a little more detail here
00:28:16
would be that the three arrived from Riverside this would be about a 90 mile Northeast travel to Starved Rock Park on
00:28:26
Monday the 14th after checking into the lodge the three took an afternoon hike to St Louis Canyon and as the captain
00:28:34
points out we don't know for certain if that was that location where they were eventually found was their intention or
00:28:42
if somebody else took them there or directed them there for nefarious reasons or or innocent you know totally
00:28:50
innocent reasons you know you should make sure you check out the Frozen waterfall over at St Louis Canyon right
00:28:56
but we do know they never turn after this and as the captain pointed out too the canyon is approximately a mile from
00:29:03
the lodge where they were staying one key part to this case I believe and we'll see this time and time again as we
00:29:11
go through the details is if one were to take the trail to the St Louis Canyon there's but one way in and one way out
00:29:22
to this Canyon it would seem based off of the phone calls from one of the husbands and then him alerting the other
00:29:29
husbands that the disappearances of three ladies three guests at the lodge went completely
00:29:35
unnoticed by Lodge employees now mind you they're not keeping track on every minute-by-minute movement of their guest
00:29:44
but it was only despite repeated attempts to reach them by a family member that we figure out hey we should
00:29:51
go out and be looking for these persons they are in fact missing as we said on the 15th a snow stomm dumped about
00:29:58
dumped nearly a foot of snow over the area and then on Wednesday the 16th that is when they were found now I want to
00:30:07
Circle back to something that we addressed with the rooms being checked the beds appeared to have not been slept
00:30:15
in made neatly this is according to Lodge employees also saying that the suitcases were still packed with all of
00:30:26
the items the debate then becomes at least one source states that some of the items were unpacked and that same Source
00:30:36
states that on one of the phone calls the husband was told no the three ladies were at breakfast on Tuesday so let's
00:30:45
address those two items real quick what we do know for certain is that the three
00:30:50
women after having lunch on Monday they went to their rooms and changed some of a portion of their attire for the hike
00:31:00
that afternoon so it is easy to make the assumption that whatever clothes that they changed out of may have been the
00:31:10
very small amount of clothing that would have been found in the Dressler drawers
00:31:15
of their rooms and mind you they are staying in separate rooms the breakfast comment this has never been verified by
00:31:25
anybody so I think that this is just a complete misunderstanding where someone calls
00:31:31
looking for the women somebody sees three women or a group of women having had breakfast and makes the mistake of
00:31:39
telling the person yeah I think I saw them at breakfast this [Music] morning stop stop punishing yourself
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on IOS and [Music] Android want to welcome you back cheers to everybody cheers to all the people in
00:35:15
the back cheers to you Captain cheers to all you lovers out there on this Valentine's Day week that's right true
00:35:24
crime garage the show for lovers yeah well sorry trying to transition after that it's a that's a tough transition to
00:35:34
make rooms checked as we said and the general consensus is everything appears that that none of the women had stayed a
00:35:43
single night you know beds are made and that's exactly what one would expect to find
00:35:51
with the women not having stayed overnight we can get into all the minutia of this case but we we have a we
00:35:59
have to stick to this timeline and we can't dissect every little thing to much here because again there's only this one
00:36:07
source to even suggest that the women were alive and well on that Tuesday morning I think it's a it's a very big
00:36:14
leap with no evidence to back it up the general consensus is they left for a hike after Monday's lunch and never were
00:36:23
seen alive again after that that's very important to our timeline and we discuss
00:36:28
this all the time time of death while we cannot narrow it down to an exact hour here what the investigation is going to
00:36:37
hyperfocus on is person's movement and persons who were in the area confirmed to be in the area that Monday afternoon
00:36:48
after lunch and potential I Witnesses for that time of day as well and like you said there's one way into this area
00:36:56
and one way out that's something that's working for law enforcement the thing that I think is difficult is like you
00:37:03
said there's a lot of people a lot of moving parts and not just people that are visiting the state park but people
00:37:12
that are staying in the lodge and then people that work in the lodge and people that work in surrounding businesses and
00:37:20
then another thing working against law enforcement is if you can't narrow down that the time frame
00:37:27
of the death that's going to really get in the way of establishing Alibis for suspects and I hate to be so flip about
00:37:38
the the overall situation because of course it's a great trategy horrific case loss of
00:37:46
life but that that's what we deal with time and time again here in the garage now what I'm what I'm always looking at
00:37:53
Captain and you know this is what advantages and disadvantages does your homicide
00:37:59
investigation have and each case is unique each case is very different and one advantage while while there are
00:38:06
certainly a lot of disadvantages to this case and we'll go through those but one
00:38:11
advantage that I want to point out here is I think that the time of year that the ladies chose to go to Starved Rock
00:38:18
is somewhat helpful to your investigation because this is a very large park with a lodge with dining
00:38:27
areas with places that you can that one could go to eat but it's also February so it's very cold out we've already
00:38:36
discussed all of the snow that was in the area so I would imagine the campgrounds were probably empty and the
00:38:42
amount of people at starve Rock whether it be to stay overnight or stay for a few days or even just visit for the
00:38:50
afternoon I would imagine that those numbers are significantly less and the cold snowy months of February than it
00:38:59
would be other times of the year so that is one advantage that you may have compared to should this horrible crime
00:39:06
have taken place in June July or August now I have to bring up something that listeners have to be thinking what the
00:39:16
flamethrowers when they're investigating the crime scene they're using flamethrowers basically to melt the snow
00:39:23
to look for evidence but that's a that's a risky business don't you think you have the possibility of tampering
00:39:32
with evidence yes no you're exactly right and I think that that might be a something that was done out of
00:39:39
desperation maybe so the flamethrowers that we're talking about this is not Saving Private Ryan flamethrower that
00:39:48
you're using to clear out tunnels right you're just shooting huge Flames into these tunnels to clear tunnels this is
00:39:56
have you ever seen someone that is using it's like a wand with a backpack and typic today you would see it used to
00:40:04
burn off weeds it's still very old school especially if you're burning off Weeds on the Cracks of sidewalks or
00:40:11
asphalt I only witnessed this a couple times in my years on this planet but I have seen it it's it's interesting
00:40:18
looking it's but that that's what we're talking about here so the the problem with the snow we talk about advantage
00:40:26
and disadvantages for your investigation having to use these little makeshift flamethrowers huge disadvantage for your
00:40:34
investigation the snow huge disadvantage for your investigation because the reports are with the snow that in some
00:40:42
areas it was just a couple of inches other areas they're saying that the snow was kneee and given the terrain that
00:40:49
does make sense but also you have to keep in mind because this is not completely completely flat land and you
00:40:57
have these snow drifts and some of these snow drifts are Knee Deep maybe even closer to waist deep for some people
00:41:05
while you're looking for evidence the ground is a great place to find evidence we all know that you cannot believe that
00:41:13
you're going to find all of your physical evidence inside this shallow cave where they're found again that cave
00:41:19
is about 5 feet elevated off of the canyon floor so we mentioned taken to this C
00:41:27
alive or dead if they're dead somebody had to go to great efforts to put them up there you have to go through this
00:41:34
snow seeing what maybe was dropped or placed there as the killer approached the victims struggled with the victims and
00:41:45
then fled the scene you're not going to expect to find it on top of the snow knowing that the amount of snowfall that
00:41:53
you've had since the victims were last seen what if what are some other points of evidence that we could look into this
00:42:01
case the twine is going to be very interesting here Captain so all the victims were bound with this twine with
00:42:07
their their wrist tied now this is not an item that is believed that the victims would have had with them on
00:42:17
their person so this is something that you are of the belief that the killer brought with them to the crime scene and
00:42:25
left behind the bodies were discovered at 12:30 as we said and all three victims suffered severe head trauma this
00:42:34
bloodstained tree limb so this is described as three foot long weighing approximately 10 lb this in the days
00:42:43
after the murders was determined to be at least one of the objects that was used to bludgeon the W the victims to
00:42:51
death we should point out here though that this being one of the murder weapons is highly debated still to this
00:43:00
day let's also not skip over the fact that the camera found in the binoculars that were found are also believed to
00:43:07
possibly have been objects that may have been used to strike the women so and note here that that the camera and the
00:43:14
binoculars belong to the ladies unlike the twine these items were brought with them for the hike right and as you heard
00:43:22
earlier they're going out to see this beautiful Frozen waterfall uh in the St Louis Canyon and as described the area
00:43:30
snow is kneee in some areas 22 degrees temperature outside during the search once they
00:43:38
locate them and during the investigation can you imagine you're out there trying
00:43:41
to investigate this Savage heinous triple murder up to your knees in snow at some points freezing your earballs
00:43:48
off the log binoculars and Camera these items are all very difficult so the the log
00:43:56
is thought to be one of the items that may have been used to strike the women maybe as many as 100 blows each to the
00:44:04
head and face area of each victim the binoculars in camera are up for debate right because some reports and some
00:44:13
persons believe that the binoculars and or camera were also used to strike the women there was Damage Done to both
00:44:21
items and I believe blood found on one or if not both items but then there's also some thought captain that maybe the
00:44:29
camera and binoculars were damaged in a scuffle or even used by the women as an attempt to defend themselves yeah block
00:44:37
block the log or whatever was being used to attack them or maybe even to strike the asant or asants uh with the
00:44:45
binoculars or camera well it seems like there's also debate on was there more than one item used as
00:44:55
a murder weapon exactly and I I think that and the reason why that's so debated is what we've already addressed do we
00:45:05
have one killer two killers three killers we know we have three victims and usually the number of victims and
00:45:11
the number of weapons used yeah would be extremely suggestive of the number of perpetrators involved
00:45:20
in a crime now complicated crime scene of course it's outdoors first of all there's there's going to be debris in
00:45:29
that area on the snow below the snow that will have nothing to do with your murder scene at all will have nothing to
00:45:36
do with the crimes at all when you're taking inventory of all of these items and cataloging them then you have the
00:45:44
added work of trying to determine does it have anything to do with the case at all where if you find somebody murdered
00:45:49
in the back room of a gas station or somebody who has been killed in the living room of their home it's very easy
00:45:56
to sort out what is a part of your crime and what is not the snowfall extremely complicated for the
00:46:05
scene and then we have to factor in something that we don't have to factor in a lot of times today Captain the
00:46:11
lookie lose right this is the 1960s for crying out loud and this is how they just seemed to do things back then it's
00:46:18
like town crier who's like we have a murder over here and then everybody just flocks to the murder scene we've seen
00:46:26
this in several cases that we've covered we saw it with the brick of family murders that took place in the 60s in
00:46:33
Cincinnati Ohio three victims killed inside their home and the police come in there and they invite the reporters
00:46:41
camera persons and neighbors to just come in and view the scene and if you see footage of the Starved Rock case
00:46:51
you'll see that there's just people walking all about looking and checking out what happened happened and and look
00:46:57
we can't fault the investigators in the star of rock case because that's just how they did things in most parts of the
00:47:05
country in the 60s it wasn't right they didn't they just didn't know any better they did eventually fence off the canyon
00:47:12
area and they posted police guards there uh to lock down the scene if you will this after many reporters camera people
00:47:21
and just people that were in the area were able to check it out right we always talk about transfer Theory
00:47:30
transference of evidence of course you can see how complicated that gets with with everything we just described murder
00:47:36
weapon you're always hoping to find the murder weapon left at the scene or you're hoping that the Damage Done to
00:47:44
your victim will be quick to point out to you that your murder weapon may be unique so that once you do question the
00:47:52
right person or search the right person's property your vehicle that you will find this item and be able to go
00:47:58
yep it's 100% connected to our crime scene here we have the complication of a log which again highly debated was
00:48:09
it involved in the murder or not they did find some blood on it they did test it for fingerprints they didn't find
00:48:15
anything I wouldn't expect to find much in the way in fingerprints on a log in 1960 I I hate to say this because it's a
00:48:24
little graphic but given their injuries and how they were killed and you pointed out the problem
00:48:33
with the blood evidence here I think that given their injuries to me wherever wherever the most blood
00:48:42
is found is where they're killed and the most blood is found in that shallow cave
00:48:48
with them right so that if I if I had to if I had to guess that's that's where I
00:48:54
would go with it and then then as far as where they were first attacked where the first struggle went
00:49:02
down could some of this Blood that's found outside of the cave could it be from the victims yes could it be from a
00:49:10
struggle yes could it also be falling off the perpetrator or perpetrators as they as they fled the scene yes so when
00:49:19
you have what's described as large pools of blood in this cave and nowhere else I'm of the thought that maybe they were
00:49:28
probably killed in that cave and then if if you can make that leap if you're willing to make that leap then you have
00:49:35
to go okay well now nobody has to carry them up in there you just have to convince them to get up there on
00:49:46
their own and Corral them into that cave and that clears another hurdle in your investigation if you're willing to make
00:49:55
those leaps the investigation is underway a large pool of good potential suspects will be pulling the
00:50:02
investigators into many different directions in this case of course they are going to be looking for persons who
00:50:07
were in the area of Starved Rock Park and more specifically the St Louis Canyon on the day of the murders Monday
00:50:14
March 14th especially the afternoon thereof another focus and rightfully so will be the employees and other guests
00:50:23
of the lodge investigators requ both list of employees and guests of that Lodge this is perfect for the initial
00:50:31
steps of your investigation you don't necessarily need to find your Suspects on either list but you have both staff
00:50:39
and Lodgers coming and going at all times of the day on Monday March 14th what did they see who did they see what
00:50:47
did they hear all of these parties were one mile from the murder scene maybe even closer if they ventured over to the
00:50:54
oneway in One Way Out St Louis Canyon or were on the trails themselves that day or maybe even overheard one of the
00:51:02
ladies say something at lunch of interest to the case so this action would lead the investigation to focus in
00:51:09
on a handful of persons with direct connections to the lodge and a few Outsiders as well on Monday March 17th
00:51:17
the day after the bodies were found the owner guest and employees of the lodge are interviewed individually now good
00:51:25
number of people are employed here so I won't guarantee that all were interviewed on this day but it seems
00:51:32
like most of them were now investigators will start eliminating persons if possible but also move people to the
00:51:39
Persons of Interest list on that list I believe right very early on we are going
00:51:46
to get at least three people that investigators seem to find an interest in this is Chester week ger age
00:51:57
21 he's a dishwasher at the lodge and he's worked on and off at the lodge for a good deal of time over the course of a
00:52:05
couple of years it is reported that he was in fact at work at the lodge within about a mile or so of the murder scene
00:52:13
on that day in question March 14th 1960 we also have Stanley Tucker I believe he's a little bit older than
00:52:22
Chester weager he works in the kitchen at the lodge as well and we also have a man by the name of George Spyros George
00:52:32
Spyros is the owner's son and he is a little bit younger than Chester weager I could not find his
00:52:41
exact birth date or age at the time of this case but I believe him to be 19 or 20 does that sound about right to you
00:52:50
Captain yes so he's the son of the owner now a few days out is when we first start to hear talk of possible suspects
00:52:59
so these people that we just mentioned yeah they're not mentioned in the newspapers early on even though police
00:53:07
would have taken an interest in the three well like I said we have a lot of people visiting the park we have a lot
00:53:12
of people visiting the lodge because beautiful Lodge but there is a ton of employees and so that's your immediate
00:53:24
circle anybody working at that Lodge is a mile away from the crime scene yeah and the reason why these three are going
00:53:32
to stand out so immediately you have you have some things right you're going to interview everybody but when this is
00:53:39
being labeled especially early on as sex slangs or sex maniac killer kills three
00:53:46
women immediately you're going well I'm looking for a male or males that were involved in this so right away you you
00:53:56
any of the males that you interview are going to be of more interest as far as potential suspects go than any of the
00:54:04
females that you interview these three will separate from the herd because all three of them were
00:54:12
at the lodge at one point on the day in question and all were leaving or had the ability to go
00:54:24
elsewhere around the time that the ladies would have been leaving for their hike or
00:54:29
shortly thereafter now a few days out is when we first start to hear talk of possible suspects this is other than the
00:54:37
first public suspicion that this must be the work of some deranged lunatic who was on the loose from the nearest Asylum
00:54:43
the information says in part two fairly good suspects are being questioned or are to be questioned in the Starved Rock
00:54:52
triple sex slangs this according to the State Police this information came in the March 19th paper 5 days after the
00:55:00
murders and 3 days after the bodies were found the police chief identified the two men as the driver of a truck similar
00:55:09
to one scene near the murder scene the other man is a man who lives nearby and it sounds to me Captain like it these
00:55:19
two suspects are separate from one another it's not that they think that these two were together but what little
00:55:25
information we have based on this report it sounds like these two had not been questioned prior that they are going to
00:55:32
be question right one important part for the investigators as the captain pointed
00:55:38
out would be to attempt to sort out about where and when the ladies were intercepted by The Killers because no
00:55:47
one is believing that The Killers happen upon them and the ladies were already just chilling in the
00:55:52
cave this while still attempting to collect more evidence from the scene so if I have your permission can I address
00:56:01
something here Captain go for it thank you God bless you Captain let it rip one of just many points of contention in
00:56:09
this case has always been could these horrific murders could they have been committed by one killer two killers or
00:56:15
more and this in my humble garage opinion is a very fair debate to be had I think one could make a strong argument
00:56:24
for all all three of those options but I am choosing to say Killers here because
00:56:32
that's what the papers were saying from Jump Street and check some of the police's words as well they are using
00:56:39
the plural most of the time when they are talking about this case so the search for The
00:56:46
Killers all right now we will attempt to sort of Rapid Fire move through this lengthy
00:56:53
timeline because there there's a lot of little interesting nuggets here March 18th there's a suspect he's a stable
00:57:01
hand he's questioned and released there is film found in the camera of one of the victims now this is sent off to be
00:57:10
developed when it comes back we're going to see The Faded outline of a man behind a tree this is
00:57:18
pointed out to the public by investigators March 21st police receive a flood what they refer to as a flood of
00:57:27
new leads and we have some of that information one is a lasa automobile dealer reports seeing a man talking to
00:57:37
three women along a road that's skirting the canyon a description opens up a Statewide search
00:57:46
for this person for the person that this automobile dealer says that he saw talking to the women the description he
00:57:53
gives is the male was approximately 25 years of age 5' 8 in tall 165 lb with reddish brown wavy
00:58:05
hair here this is something that's very interesting Captain investigators say that on the same day their probe was
00:58:12
strengthened when they received a call from South Dakota the caller was a reverend his
00:58:21
name is aw hefin he's a travel evangelist he says that he was at the park on March 14th the day of the
00:58:33
slangs and he said while he was there he was taking a lot of pictures he even did
00:58:40
a little Motion Picture filming while he was there that's what they called in the
00:58:45
newspaper Motion Picture filming so picture kind of zuder film so he's making a poor now no he's just he's got
00:58:53
his little I don't even know what those old cameras are called but uh he got one
00:58:58
of those deals so he calls the police tells them this that he was there and that I'm going to be very helpful I'm
00:59:05
going to mail you the film you know my for my camera my camera and my motion picture camera they questioned the
00:59:12
Reverend via phone on that same day now later we will learn that the Reverend will travel to Ottawa Illinois to be
00:59:23
interviewed by police in person and in this interview he says that while he was there at the park and one thing that's
00:59:31
missing from the details that they released to the public about this interview with the the Reverend is what
00:59:38
time was he there at the park right like if he was there early in the morning or
00:59:41
late at night none of this has to do may not have anything to do with our case at
00:59:45
all right but he does tell investigators that while he was there he heard voices
00:59:50
while he was walking the trails and at least one of the voices was a woman's voice and he says that he heard these
00:59:58
voices while he was walking along Trails east of the lodge now I don't think that
01:00:06
this puts him in the area of where the women were found or in the direct area of where the women were found but I've
01:00:13
never walked these Trails myself so I can't say 100% with any level of certainty here he does say that he saw
01:00:22
who he could only describe as workmen in the area and no one else so he never sees any of the women never sees any
01:00:28
women at all right just Al think that he heard them yeah we don't know what time
01:00:33
of day he's there but he tells the investigators that he was at the state park for approximately 3 hours on the
01:00:40
day of the murders well I feel like once we get the video footage we'd be able to
01:00:44
roughly know what time of day I mean we'd know if it's light or dark but this is why I like when we cover cases
01:00:52
because you my friend are the Ron Swanson of True Crime the best in the biz because I I've never even heard of
01:01:01
this guy yet good old Reverend aw hefin yeah a guy that's spreading the good word making films and trying to get that
01:01:11
money for the Lord March 23rd police report that they found potential new Clues one was an Overcoat
01:01:19
button and auto keys that were found near the canyon this is interesting because what is not in debate here is it
01:01:29
seems that all the investigators are agreeing that there would have been some kind of scuffle some kind of physical
01:01:35
altercation that would have taken place at the scene or near where the victims were found anytime you have that you
01:01:42
expect that you may find for a lack of better term debris of that scuffle or items that may have been lost or dropped
01:01:50
by your perpetrators as they flee the scene we don't have criminal Pro profiling going on in at any heavy level
01:01:58
here in 1960 but I did find this interesting there is a Penitentiary nearby they reached out to the
01:02:08
psychiatrist working there and said hey could you draw up a what they refer to as a prototype of the
01:02:16
Slayers based off of the physical evidence that we've gathered at the scene basically they're asking for them
01:02:22
for this doctor to up a profile of the killer exactly what what would be a very vague prototype of the Slayers and and
01:02:32
mind you notice the again using the plural this is kind of profiling the Genesis almost of
01:02:40
profiling where they're saying look you've interviewed a lot of violent offenders in your career who should we
01:02:47
is there anything that we should be looking for in particular we also know that on the same day that scrapings from
01:02:54
the fingernails of the victims were either being sent off to be analyzed or were being analyzed at this
01:03:04
time two days later on March 25th investigators confirmed so there there were there was the sighting of a few
01:03:11
different vehicles at the state park that people had either phoned in or talked to police about during the course
01:03:18
of their canvasing the area and and interviewing people anytime they were trying to of course they're always
01:03:24
trying to get license plate information from the people that they talk to or people that say hey I saw this
01:03:31
car but your average civilian not walking around making mental note or even writing down license plates so
01:03:40
you're going to get these hey I think it was this or yeah I I noticed that it was
01:03:44
this but what we get told on the 25th by police is that all of the letters you know I I don't I don't can't speak for
01:03:51
every state but here in the state of Ohio we have a set of letters followed by a series of numbers for our license
01:03:58
plates the information that they released says that letters prefacing license numbers of cars seen
01:04:06
at State Park have been checked and all the results were negative meaning if somebody told police that I saw license
01:04:14
plate OMG 1960 they ignore the numbers because they're not saying that they receive
01:04:22
full license plates they're saying anybody that told us letters from license plates right that is coming
01:04:30
before the numbers we have at this time checked our databases checked all the information that we would have and we're
01:04:38
not coming up with anything placing an actual vehicle with those letters on the plate at the scene it's just suggestive
01:04:47
by somebody it's not backed up by fact March 31st the sheriff flies to Rochester New York for a conf conference
01:04:54
with experts at the Eastman Kodiak company he takes with him film from the victim's camera remember the cameras
01:05:03
found at the scene and they get the great idea of we should probably check the film that we find inside this camera and
01:05:12
luckily enough it wasn't damaged to the point that they could not review the film that little piece of potential
01:05:20
evidence where they thought that they were seeing the out line of a man behind one of the trees so this would be in the
01:05:28
background right you have a picture of one or two of the ladies and in the background they see what they think is a
01:05:34
man who could be he could be the killer he could just be somebody walking and passing by he could be approaching the
01:05:40
women getting ready to attack them but once they take this to The Experts they review it and they
01:05:49
determine that this is not a person at all it's just a an optical illusion brought about by Shadows so it's
01:05:58
potentially just simply a shadow that they are seeing now where the three women were
01:06:05
attacked or intercepted by The Killers this as you pointed out Captain is going to be something very important
01:06:13
to their investigation this is one of the questions that they want to answer they say that the answers for this
01:06:20
started to fall in place when officials showed four pictures found on that same camera so this camera is found lying
01:06:27
beside the women's bodies right they believe that these pictures were taken by Mrs
01:06:33
oding because the picture showed the other two companions posing happily on Monday and
01:06:42
this is really only what is described as a few feet from the Starved Rock State Park Canyon mouth where their bodies
01:06:52
their beaten bodies were found two days later well what's great about this information though is we can then look
01:06:57
at the pictures and depending on what order they're in we can kind of start tracking the victim's movements exactly
01:07:06
and what we have the state's attorney Harland Warren pointing out he says that these pictures are proof that the women
01:07:16
were out on a nature hike and they were in fact surprised by who he's calling a sex crazed attackers after innocently
01:07:25
entering the escape proof Canyon floor themselves so they willingly walked into this general area where
01:07:34
their bodies would later be found the complications for the victim here the victims here remember back to the deli
01:07:42
case that we've talked about so much at length on this this podcast time and time again when the two victims got to
01:07:50
the other side of the bridge even though they could have fled they were essentially trapped by the killer who's
01:07:57
approaching them via the bridge right their their young minds are going to believe because nobody does anything on
01:08:03
the other side of that moanin high bridge you get to the other side you turn around and you come back so it's
01:08:10
it's always been thought that the killer sort of cornered them by forcing them to
01:08:17
either go past them past the person that they were afraid of on the bridge or just
01:08:24
freeze and stay there on the side of the bridge and watch the person that that has sked them out approach getting
01:08:31
closer and closer here even more so you go down into this St Louis Canyon and listen to the way that the state's
01:08:41
attorney describes where the women were standing based off of the the photograph
01:08:46
evidence that they find on the victim's camera says that the victims innocently entered the
01:08:54
escape proof Canyon floor which is bounded on three sides by 110 ft Cliffs so they're basically walled in right
01:09:05
it's either go through the person or persons that have approached you or remain [Music]
01:09:20
there want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage stay tuned for part two for everything True Crime
01:09:28
Check out true crime garage.com and while you're there sign up on our mailing list be good be kind and don't
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his fantasy team digging a hole digging an even larger hole next to that original hole unfortunately tax act's
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filing software can't make taxes fun but Tax Act can help you get them done Tax Act let's get them over
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with