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welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me
00:01:48
as always is a man with a bite that binds and the gift that gives ladies and gentlemen here is the captain it's good
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business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:35
[Music] crime don't feel the [Music] same don't feel the [Music] same don't feel the same when we left
00:04:00
off yesterday Captain 11-year-old Jordan Brown was arrested for murder so what I
00:04:06
want to do here at the top of this show is start off with a little more background information on Jordan and his
00:04:13
father we're going to go back to 1997 this is when his mother Mildred Krauss was pregnant with Jordan during
00:04:22
this time she filed a protection from abuse order against Jordan's father Chris Brown Mildred that quote he drinks
00:04:31
heavily he uses drugs and he has such a temper when I told him I was going back to Florida he tore up my brother's room
00:04:39
he also tried running me off of the road when I had the baby with me he told me if I ever broke up with him he would
00:04:46
kill me end quote that is Mildred Krauss Jordan Brown's mother a protection of abuse from Chris Brown now we have no
00:04:56
way of knowing whether any of Mildred's allegations are true although she and Chris did split up very soon after
00:05:03
Jordan's birth Chris ended up with custody of Jordan however and Mildred she unfortunately became sick with
00:05:12
cancer she says she gave up custody because she couldn't take care of Jordan or give him a stable upbringing Chris
00:05:19
and Jordan were very very close and they did everything together Jordan's uncles
00:05:25
describe him as a normal boy who liked video games dirt bikes and hunting with his dad Jordan was on a Mighty Mites
00:05:33
football team at school we aren't privy to his school records because those are sealed some people say he was just a
00:05:41
normal kid and others say Jordan was a bit of a bully after the murders Kenzie's family started to tell stories
00:05:49
about Jordan Kenzie's brother-in-law Jason Craner recounted an episode in which his own child told him months
00:05:57
before the murders that he had been playing guns with Jordan and Jordan actually told my son that he wanted to
00:06:05
do that to her meaning he wanted to shoot Kenzie and her girls Jordan Brown is 11 years old is it possible that he
00:06:15
has a little bit of a jealousy because he's so close with his father and now these new people are coming into his
00:06:21
father's life and they're drawing attention away from him well and that's exactly what keny's family says they
00:06:28
believe was going on they said that there was an issue with jealousy we should point out that's not out of
00:06:34
question here and one could see that that could be the situation he's 11 years old and very quickly he basically
00:06:43
has a whole new family right they've only lived in that home for four months before Kenzie was shot and killed and so
00:06:50
in a relatively short period of time he's now not just living with his father but he's living with his father these
00:06:58
two young girls a new mom air quotes and a baby on the way and a new house so his
00:07:07
little young life has changed dramatically in a very short period of time well once keny's family brings up
00:07:14
these ideas of jealousy law enforcement's going to adopt this theory that seems right here Captain the
00:07:21
prosecutor started putting together a theory that Jordan wanted to get rid of Kenzie and that he was likely jealous of
00:07:28
the new baby wanting his father and his you know life all to himself whatever happened with this situation where one
00:07:38
of the kids tells a an adult that Jordan wanted to do that to Kenzie and the girls well this seems to have been lost
00:07:46
on Chris and Kenzie right they if if they were relayed this information they must have just denied it or dismissed it
00:07:54
and then we have the situation that Jordan's attorneys they point out that look Chris
00:08:01
Brown had no idea that his son had a problem with Kenzie and that's because they say he didn't have a problem with
00:08:08
Kenzie police also interviewed Chris Brown's girlfriend of seven years this is important here because we were
00:08:15
talking about an 11-year-old he lived with this woman for seven years Laura Miller remember Chris Brown dated her
00:08:23
from 2000 to 2007 Laura knew Jordan very well and told police that her son Frank
00:08:29
and Jordan called each other brothers here are some excerpts from her recorded interview question did Jordan ever act
00:08:37
out violently answer mostly he just cried question how did Jordan get along with other kids the answer was he was
00:08:45
shy if he was by himself he was shy when Jordan and Frank were together they were
00:08:51
never afraid to meet other kids how did you get along with Jordan this is really
00:08:57
interesting to me because this is another woman that he lived with for a much longer period of Time how did you
00:09:03
get along with Jordan were you afraid of him the answer is Jordan called me mommy
00:09:07
for more than 6 years we loved each other no I was not ever afraid of him not to interrupt you but we have to
00:09:15
remember that Jordan was calling Kinsey mom next question was Frank afraid of Jordan no Frank loved him like a brother
00:09:23
and he still does but Laura also told police of one fight between Jordan and Frank when Jordan was 5 years old and
00:09:32
she says I remember on one occasion in 2002 my son Frank was playing with his toy xylophone and Jordan told him to
00:09:39
quit I told Jordan that he was just playing and that he could continue playing Jordan was sitting on his dad's
00:09:46
lap punching his fist into his open hand sometime later Jordan got up and ran back into the bedroom and punched Frank
00:09:55
in the face Jordan then bit his own arm arm and said that Frank had bit him Jordan needed to learn how to deal with
00:10:05
his emotions is what she said Jordan cried a lot when he was very young she said he was shy withdrawn and jealous
00:10:13
over his dad during the time I knew him he lied a lot even when caught he would continue to lie this next story is
00:10:21
particularly horrible so brace yourselves get ready put them earballs in a seat belt because it's a bumpy ride
00:10:30
I wish I didn't have to say this but quote I remember one time when Chris had found some mice in the trailer he put
00:10:36
the mice in a bucket and went outside the trailer when I saw them Chris was throwing firecrackers in the bucket and
00:10:44
both he and Jordan were laughing my son Frank was also with them but he was crying end quote Yeah that's what you
00:10:52
want to do torture animals with your kid okay so the police have their man or their boy but now we need to flesh out a
00:11:01
case against him that will stand up in court so police interviewed everyone they could think of one person of
00:11:08
importance here Captain would be the school bus driver who first saw Jordan and Janessa when they were about a third
00:11:15
of the way down the driveway walking toward the road right he said that he observed them coming down the driveway
00:11:22
until they got onto the bus he said when they saw the bus waiting for them they both began to run toward the bus with
00:11:29
Jordan leading Janessa by about 10 yard they did not act in any way unusual nor did he observe either of them leave the
00:11:38
driveway or throw anything right because Janessa claims that she saw Jordan throw
00:11:44
something when they got towards the edge of the driveway the children got onto the bus took their respective seats and
00:11:51
behaved in a completely ordinary fashion for the duration of the ride now the only reason why I'm not going to fully
00:11:58
believe the the bus driver again not saying that they're a liar but the but the problem is and and you know this you
00:12:06
rode the bus for many of years as a student M when the bus comes and the little stop sign goes out and they're
00:12:13
they're watching the kids they're also watching the traffic be behind them in front of them so is it possible at some
00:12:22
point this bus driver took their eyes off the kid and and Jordan threw something when when the bus driver
00:12:29
wasn't looking not to mention all the other kids on the bus yes this is a very distracting job um a job that I am happy
00:12:37
that I don't do uh so I applaud those that do that job I don't know that I would have any hair left if I had that
00:12:45
job but um yes so I can understand that it would be difficult for this bus driver to give a full account but the
00:12:53
account that he gave there you have it he saw them for the entire time they didn't behave in any way that he thought
00:13:00
was abnormal he didn't see either child throw anything or discard anything at any point that's why I kind of circle
00:13:07
back to the whole thing of I want these interviews recorded because we have these statements by Trooper Wilson who
00:13:14
says well in the second interview Jordan hesitated and he's changing his answers
00:13:20
what I really would like to know is by that point in the second interview he's been made aware that his stepmother or
00:13:27
soon to be stepmother has been killed has been murdered if he is innocent that means that during the
00:13:35
course of the first interview he's a unaware of any of that very important information now if he's guilty he is
00:13:43
aware of why the officer is interviewing him without being told that he's being interviewed because his soon toe
00:13:50
stepmother has been murdered right I want that to be a recorded interview because I want to know did this kid seem
00:13:57
nervous like be on the point of oh you're just being asked random questions ordinary questions from a police officer
00:14:05
I would think that 11-year-old boy that knew that information going into the first interview would have visible signs
00:14:13
of being nervous 100% agree I think if those interviews are recorded then we have demeanor yes and I think that's
00:14:22
really important and what we have here Captain is we have the Troopers going out of their way to explain his behavior
00:14:29
and to detail his behavior during the course of the second interview but we don't have the same for the first
00:14:35
interview where he could have just been a normal little 11-year-old boy that doesn't know something horrible has
00:14:41
happened to his family this is going to lead us to the preliminary hearing which
00:14:46
is really kind of a mini trial here this will be held on March 24th to determine
00:14:50
if there was probable cause to bind Jordan over for trial the district attorney said of the evidence against
00:14:57
Jordan I have a shotgun blast to the back of the head that's consistent with a 20 gauge shotgun shell I have a 20
00:15:06
gauge youth model in his room which smells like it's recently fired he's got gun residue on him I think at this point
00:15:16
that's more than enough he went on describing the killing as premeditated and cold blooded he said Jordan shot
00:15:24
Kenzie put the shotgun back in his bedroom threw or hid the spent shell casing in the snow and then rode the bus
00:15:32
to Mohawk Elementary School with Janessa as if nothing had happened seems like it'd be hard to act normal if you
00:15:41
murdered your stepmom or if you even accidentally killed her yeah and again though I think what we're pointing out
00:15:48
though here Captain I get what you're saying could this have been an accident that's certainly in the realm of
00:15:53
possibility the problem is when you start covering up your accident it's now murder and if he or if he planned a poke
00:16:00
around down there with a gun it's he's still responsible for her death at the end of the day yes but his actions of
00:16:08
covering up to me would lean more towards he's 11 years old and not 25 30y old kid trying to cover up murder okay
00:16:19
but that's not the picture that they're going to paint for us at his trial so at
00:16:24
this trial the prosecution will call 10 Witnesses we have a trooper that testified that test showed that Jordan's
00:16:31
clothing taken from his person on the evening of February 20th these are the same items that he wore to school that
00:16:38
day had gunshot residue on them he acknowledged on cross that the analyst report also stated that the residue this
00:16:46
is important because you hear gunshot residue on this kid and you go all right he did it let's lock him up and throw
00:16:52
away the key right but on Cross it's pointed out that the gunshot residue could have resulted from from any of the
00:16:59
following three things discharging a firearm standing near someone who discharged a firearm or coming in
00:17:07
contact with a surface that had gunshot residue on it another Trooper testified that he found a 20 gauge shotgun in
00:17:15
Jordan's upstairs bedroom and it smelled as though it had recently been fired another Trooper said that there was no
00:17:22
evidence of a Breakin at all at the Home in fact a wad of cash was visible on a table in the bedroom and just to play
00:17:31
Devil's Advocate yes no signs of Breakin because all the doors were unlocked and
00:17:37
if your purpose there was to murder somebody then who cares about the money that's on the table exactly you're
00:17:44
exactly right you don't have to break in just walk right in right another Trooper
00:17:48
testified that when she first talked to Jordan at school he said he saw a black truck near The Farmhouse that morning
00:17:55
but thought it was for a man who came to feed livestock the trooper went on to say that in the second interview about
00:18:03
10 hours later Jordan's story changed it was now a truck and there was a person in a white hat inside who ducked down
00:18:11
out of sight again I think we both agree that it it's adding details to a story I
00:18:17
don't know how much it's the story changing correct I I can lean toward that that argument the testimony of
00:18:24
Trooper Martin from a previous proceeding was also considered by the court and I think that this I don't have
00:18:31
the exact statements that they took from Trooper Martin statement but I think that this might have been about the
00:18:39
footprints in the snow that the kids prints the two children's footprints coming down the driveway were the only
00:18:47
ones around the house yeah and this is not a John Benet ramsy situation where they're saying hey there's no Footprints
00:18:55
cuz there was no snow there was a there was a lot of snow so so there should have been some kind of other Footprints
00:19:01
yeah there I mean there wasn't a ton of snow I guess but the thing here that I have a hard time wrapping my head around
00:19:07
here Captain is it continued to snow right so I mean I guess yes if you could see the childrens and we're assuming it
00:19:16
sounds like we're assuming we we can't say for certain right that those are the footprints of the children but there are
00:19:23
two Footprints sets of footprints on the driveway could somebody have entered the
00:19:29
home and the footprints gone undetected that's the trouble troubling thing right
00:19:34
a killer doesn't NE necessarily have to walk up the driveway and go in the through the front door there's four
00:19:39
entrances to the home this is a rural property someone could have entered the home from any direction on foot the
00:19:47
Court ruled on March 29th 2009 that there was in fact enough evidence to try Jordan for the murders yeah Jordan Brown
00:19:57
11 years old well as we said Captain we have Jordan Brown who's going to stay in
00:20:01
that Juvenile facility for several years we have the court records and all the motions and trials that took place if we
00:20:09
go through all of them here well that will take about as long as Jordan sat in that Juvenile Facility so we're going to
00:20:16
kind of skim through this and give you the important details now in this regard there was a determination that there was
00:20:26
in fact enough evidence to try Jordan for these murders they're basically saying that we've established enough
00:20:33
evidence that the defendant was the killer that he acted alone the evidence indicates that on the morning of the
00:20:39
shooting the father left for work leaving the defendant the victim Kinsey ha and her children Janessa and Adeline
00:20:48
in the residence of the three children only the defendant was experienced in firing a shotgun and removing an
00:20:56
expended shell there were no signs of forced entry into the residence nor any signs of a struggle robbery or theft as
00:21:05
a result of the light covering of snow it was observable that the only Footprints were those of the defendant
00:21:12
and Janessa when they left for school at approximately 8:14 a.m. there were no other Footprints or tire tracks of any
00:21:20
person or vehicle that would have approach the residents during the time in which the killing could have occurred
00:21:27
they go on to say that the defendant owned a 20 gauge shotgun which was found in his bedroom along with other guns of
00:21:34
the Six Guns found in the bedroom the defendant's 20 gauge shotgun had the strong odor of gunpowder residue
00:21:41
indicating that it had been recently fired well back to that black truck if there was a black truck there whether
00:21:48
it's the man coming to feed the animals or if it's just a similar black truck where are the tire prints well and
00:21:57
that's that's easily something that you can detect and get to the bottom of you go and interview the person that feeds
00:22:02
the cattle right if he says he was there then you go oh right well that explains
00:22:07
the way the black truck if he says he wasn't there well then we have a whole another set of issues if in fact the
00:22:13
truck was there and as you pointed out where are the tire tracks for that truck I don't not going to sit here and
00:22:20
pretend that I have a great understanding of the layout of this property is it possible that there was a
00:22:26
black truck there and for whatever reason later tracks are not detected I think it could be but again not having a
00:22:33
good understanding of this property really limits my ability to have an opinion on that now here's where I get a
00:22:40
little upset yes so they go on to site they're citing the evidence as to why we need to try this kid for the murders and
00:22:50
one of the pieces of evidence that they site here in the court record I'll read from the court record here because words
00:22:57
are important just not Grammar it says along the path of the footprints of the defendant from the residence to the
00:23:03
roadway was located a shotgun shell in pristin condition indicating it had been recently placed in that location a
00:23:10
ballistics report showed that the shell was fired from the defendant's shotgun let me repeat that a ballistics report
00:23:16
showed that the shell was fired from the defendant's shotgun that is not true that is a false statement this is in the
00:23:25
court record and it really pisses me off because the reality of it and the science of it is this statement is very
00:23:33
incorrect tell them about it what the ballistics showed is that it could have been fired from that gun so to change
00:23:42
the wording of that to say that it was fired from the gun is incredibly misleading right they go on to site more
00:23:51
evidence gunpowder residue was found on the clothing taken from the defendant at
00:23:55
the time of his arrest this was clothes that he would have been wearing during the time frame of the murder they go on
00:24:02
to site too that the defendant was familiar with the use of a shotgun having been observed to have loaded and
00:24:08
unloaded a gun removed spent shells and to have been successful in a turkey shoot just several days before the
00:24:15
killing I was the champion at shooting turkey back in my day and there's one part here too that upsets me as well
00:24:22
where they're saying that of the three people that would have been in the home the three surviv iers Jordan Janessa and
00:24:31
Adeline that he is the only one yes we know that he operated a gun and he was familiar with with doing that but they
00:24:38
say he was the only one that could do that which is again an incorrect statement right it's not true I think
00:24:45
anybody with fingers and and arms could operate a gun yeah or people with long toes let me get this correct he was told
00:24:53
to move his guns that day we don't know that according to Janessa's story when she sees him carrying guns down the
00:25:01
stairs she ask him why he's doing that to which he replies my father told me to move them let's just say that part of
00:25:09
the story is true he could have moved those guns that would be the reason he would have maybe this gun residue this
00:25:17
gunpowder residue on his person that doesn't mean he fired the gun that is a possibility however Jordan statements do
00:25:26
not back up that statement of Janessa he doesn't say at any time that he handled
00:25:32
a gun that morning in fact he denies it that's a big problem I think in cases where you're interviewing children is
00:25:40
you don't necessarily think that they're lying to cover something up but they just might not be telling you the truth
00:25:47
well Jordan would sit there almost I don't want to say wasting away but he's sitting there in a Juvenile Detention
00:25:54
Facility before a bench trial could take place with which took place in 2012 the
00:25:59
murder occurred in 2009 Jordan consistently and continually denied having anything to do with keny's murder
00:26:07
and his family you know the brown side of the family anyway backed him up on this now there are many reasons why it
00:26:15
took so long but one really strange legal aspect to this case that's important to the story is as follows in
00:26:24
October of 2009 Jordan's attorney's motion that his case should be moved to the juvenile court in March of
00:26:32
2010 which is over a year after the murders the transfer to juvenile court was denied because according to judge
00:26:39
MTO one no evidence connected anyone else to the murders and two the judge agreed with the prosecution that since
00:26:48
Jordan would not admit any guilt his lack of Contrition meant that he would not be amendable to rehabilitation in
00:26:57
the juen system per the law in Pennsylvania one test of whether a criminal proceeding should be remanded
00:27:05
to juvenile court is whether the child has accepted responsibility for the underlying
00:27:13
offense as a result of Jordan Brown's lack of acceptance of responsibility he continued to insist he did not do it the
00:27:22
judge concluded that the defense had not established that Jordan was amendable to
00:27:27
treatment and therefore was not appropriate for the juvenile system so what does all that mumbo jumbo mean per
00:27:36
a law review article that we read about the law applied by judge MTO quote Pennsylvania's juvenile transfer statute
00:27:44
puts the child in a type of Catch 22 admit to the crime and be tried as a juvenile or maintain your innocence and
00:27:54
be tried in the adult criminal justice system system which is complete [ __ ] yes and it's the same thing they do with
00:28:02
like prole hearings oh well if if I'm telling you that I didn't kill this person but you want me to accept
00:28:09
responsibility or you won't parole me right you're in a nowin situation now it would take until March of 2011 so now we
00:28:19
are over two years past the murders that this ruling got overruled basically they're saying this
00:28:26
is a violation of Jordan's Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination right admit to it and
00:28:34
get tried as a juvenile or maintain your innocence and go fight it out in adult criminal justice court giant pile of
00:28:41
horeshit so the reason that all of this is so important is because Under Pennsylvania law if Jordan were remanded
00:28:47
to the juvenile system instead of the adult system he would remain in the juvenile system only until his 21st
00:28:55
birthday that's if he's found guilty the juvenile court only has jurisdiction until 21 at that point he's eligible for
00:29:03
release if he's tried and convicted as an adult he could spend the rest of his life in
00:29:08
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Angie [Music] that all right we're back y all going to make me lose my mind up in here up in
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here cheers everybody cheers and a quick reminder if you're not following us on Instagram Facebook or Twitter you want
00:31:37
to do so you can find us on any of those platforms at True Crime garage I will be
00:31:43
sharing photos not only of the people of the case but also a few of the pictures
00:31:49
of the property so you can get a sense of what we're talking about the attorney general or the AG's office would be in
00:31:57
charge of Prosecuting the case the case against Jordan Brown they started off the trial we would end up having about 3
00:32:07
days of testimony during this trial but they started off the trial by reminding the court of all the evidence that had
00:32:13
been relied on in the previous hearings and reminding them that we the state established that a juvenile's gun was
00:32:21
used to kill the victim gunshot residue was on Jordan's shirt and pants the police focused on him because he was the
00:32:29
most likely perpetrator all other possibilities were eliminated okay I'm going to stay on
00:32:36
this and I'm sorry if I upset anyone but I'm going to stay on it because it really upsets me you get them Goat Boy
00:32:43
again here's the line we established that a juvenile's gun was used to kill the victim no you established that a gun
00:32:50
was used to kill the victim not a gun that was specifically built for a juvenile to use
00:32:58
again you can control thought by manipulating language if you can control language you essentially can control
00:33:06
thought and by choosing to use these words and putting out incorrect statements and sentences at the trial
00:33:16
you are painting a much different picture it was established that a shotgun was used to kill the victim not
00:33:23
that a juvenile's gun was used to kill the victim then the prosecution explains why other possibilities were eliminated
00:33:31
yeah they say for someone else to be the killer other than Jordan Brown the AG's
00:33:37
office said they would have had to know where the family lived which was a remote location that they had not lived
00:33:42
in very long they had to know that the gun was kept in Jordan's upstairs room know that the ammunition for that gun
00:33:50
was kept in keny's room successfully go into her room without waking her get the
00:33:55
ammunition kill her her and return the gun to Jordan's bedroom the person would have had to have left without leaving
00:34:02
Footprints or tire tracks all of this within a half an hour okay so let's clear some of that up actually it was an
00:34:11
hour it wasn't a half an hour right uh let's get our words right here we're talking about sentencing somebody to
00:34:17
prison for the rest of their life 11-year-old yeah and again the wording on this they would
00:34:25
have had to have known where the family lived okay I get that they would have had to have known that the gun was kept
00:34:30
in Jordan's upstairs room again you've not established that that gun is the actual murder weapon right know that the
00:34:36
ammunition for the gun was kept in Kinsey's room again you've not established that the ammunition that
00:34:42
came from that arm wire actually is the ammunition that killed for killed her what we do know scientifically Captain
00:34:50
is that gun could have been used to kill her the ammunition could have been used
00:34:54
to kill her right and that we know that that firearm was fired recently they're presenting all of this as fact when all
00:35:02
actuality it's just possibilities well hold on a second one of the things I think like the
00:35:09
defenses maybe maybe they didn't miss this but didn't he fire and kill some turkey recently yeah he was successful
00:35:18
at that turkey shoot that was six days before if I'm the defense that's what I'm arguing that's when the firearm was
00:35:25
fired so B basically the AG's office is saying that someone inside the house is responsible and there's no other
00:35:33
reasonable suspect and he is the only reasonable suspect I'll try to bring this up for the last time of this case I
00:35:44
agree with you so much on the interviews being actually taped to know what his demeanor was that first interview would
00:35:53
have been crucial they also pointed out that Premed ation existed in this murder
00:35:59
because once Janessa saw Jordan with the gun he went back upstairs and covered it
00:36:04
up with a blanket before coming back down he also took a shell from the box downstairs this required deliberately
00:36:12
loading the gun to shoot Kenzie so basically if you have any length at time you're doing all these actions to shoot
00:36:20
her this proves that it's premeditated whoever used the gun to kill Kenzie then put the gun back
00:36:27
upstairs again we've not 100% satisfied me or anybody that that was absolutely the gun that was used basically what
00:36:37
they're trying to tell us here Captain is this is that that morning for whatever reason it could have been the
00:36:44
jealousy a whole lot of other reasons we don't know but this 11-year-old decided
00:36:49
he was going to go downstairs with his gun that he recently got as a Christmas gift and shoot his soon to be stepmother
00:36:59
and person that he calls Mom they're saying that he put a blanket the the blanket that was later found with the
00:37:05
hole in it over the gun so that he could conceal the shotgun either from his from
00:37:14
the girls living in the house or from Kinsey herself right he has to go into her bedroom where she's lying on the bed
00:37:22
asleep open up the arm wire take out a shot gun shell load the gun put it to the back of her head pull the trigger
00:37:33
then go back upstairs wipe the gun down unload the shell do the hokey pokei put the shotgun back in its place cover it
00:37:41
up with the orange blanket along with the other five guns and then as he's leaving to go catch the school bus with
00:37:49
Janessa he then throws down the the shell some of the evidence at the house being the blanket with the hole in it
00:37:58
and the blood that is on the frame the door frame which is the front entrance to the home to which Chris Brown has
00:38:06
already told investigators nobody in the house ever used the front door and according to Janessa and Jordan Brown
00:38:14
they went out the side door that morning so yes maybe he could have touched the door frame prior to leaving the house
00:38:21
that day but according to their statements they went out the side door right and that's both of their
00:38:27
statements is there touch DNA evidence on the on the blanket do we know that that hole is from a gunshot well that's
00:38:34
where we get to Jordan's defense so his defense team is going to do their best to contradict the quote unquote evidence
00:38:41
presented by the prosecution they acknowledged that the shell found was consistent with Jordan's gun but there
00:38:48
was no evidence that it was actually fired by that gun the gun smelling like gunpowder could be residual from the
00:38:56
turkey shoot the blanket was subsequently subjected to microscopic examination and Chemical Testing and no
00:39:04
gunshot residue or blood was found on it this is important because according to their Theory the hole in the blanket is
00:39:14
because he left the the blanket concealing the shotgun as he shot her that's the only reasonable explanation
00:39:22
for this hole in the blanket why would there not be blowback spatter or gunshot residue is are theories wrong on this
00:39:31
gun or or on the blanket more importantly right they go on to say that no fingerprints or DNA linked Jordan to
00:39:40
anything this this is one that It's Tricky for me it sounds good for the defense look no DNA no fingerprints link
00:39:49
him to anything so meaning none of his prints or DNA was found on the gun I actually have a big problem with that
00:39:57
and a big problem with it for the defense if this was his gun and he had used it recently I would expect to to
00:40:04
find fingerprints his fingerprints on the gun but you did not that actually to me suggests that possibly this gun was
00:40:13
used for the murder and maybe somebody wiped this gun down before returning it to its rightful place yeah a wiper the
00:40:21
GSR found on Jordan was microscopic amount there was one particle on each of his shirt and pants and of course we've
00:40:28
already been told that it's possible that that could have been transferred from uh another item or another surface
00:40:34
and they point out specifically his winter coat because we know that he wore that same winter coat at the turkey
00:40:40
shoot just 6 days before they also pointed out that the family routinely used the property for target practice so
00:40:47
spent shells were all over the place and police found a couple of them on the property Jordan had no prior juvenile
00:40:55
record or History of Violence he was close with his father and had no mental issues or diagnosis and it's not
00:41:02
realistic to think that an 11-year-old is sophisticated enough to carry out this crime while leaving so little
00:41:09
evidence behind that is the defense's argument there's so many moving pieces and parts to this case it's almost like
00:41:16
law enforcement dismissed any idea of an intruder Theory to begin with I'd like to know more about the people that were
00:41:25
in kiny life well that's a good segue here Captain because I have another suspect for you we say that they
00:41:32
exhausted all other possibilities well one thing that was not clear was how much possible emphasis Jordan's defense
00:41:40
team placed on other possible suspects at this trial and there was probably a good suspect here there's one that at
00:41:50
least raised some eyebrows I know that and the day of the murder February 20th 200
00:41:56
the state police put out an APB for an Adam Harvey Harvey was Ken's ex of six years and police were well aware that
00:42:08
the two of them had a fraught history at the time of the murder Kenzie her parents her sister and her
00:42:16
brother-in-law all had a three-year protection from abuse order against Adam Harvey this was issued after an incident
00:42:25
in February of 20 8 this is a year before the murder when Harvey who was living in North Carolina called Kenzie's
00:42:32
mother and threatened to take her whole family out this was the second protection order issued the first
00:42:42
was issued in May of 2006 after Kinzie reported that Harvey abused her and said things that involved threatening to kill
00:42:50
her or have her killed by his friends he also physically attacked Kenzie and he and his brother threatened to kill her
00:43:00
after this Kenzie and Harvey reconciled and then moved to North Carolina but soon he resumed his abusive ways and
00:43:08
began accumulating guns Kenzie left him and took Janessa and Adeline who was born while Kenzie was in the
00:43:15
relationship with Harvey and moved back to wam New Galilee to be with her family
00:43:23
Harvey moved back to that area in October of 2008 so this is just months before someone killed Kenzie Harvey
00:43:31
lived within 10 miles of Kenzie Chris Brown testified that he and Kenzie deliberately chose to have an unlisted
00:43:39
phone number at the house they rented to make sure that Harvey could not contact
00:43:44
them Chris once listened to 12 voicemails Adam Harvey left for Kenzie in which he repeatedly threatened her
00:43:50
and her family well that's 12 voicemails too many he also left numerous voicemails for her mom and Debbie
00:43:57
threatening Kenzie and everyone else so very clearly Kenzie was afraid of her ex
00:44:04
Adam Harvey this little piece of evidence or a nugget of information I think is really important that two weeks
00:44:12
before the murder Harvey received a paternity test stating that his the the four-year-old daughter that he thought
00:44:20
was his was not his exactly and the other thing we should note here as well is that Adam Harvey drove a black pickup
00:44:28
truck old [ __ ] bag they did track him down now mind you this is interesting on
00:44:34
the same day that she's murdered they put out an APB for this man they're looking for him that's where their minds
00:44:41
go to immediately after finding her killed regardless of what they're seeing at the scene all these things that they
00:44:47
say later pointed to an inside job now they tracked him down and voluntarily he spoke to the police or that's the
00:44:55
statement that we have is that he voluntarily came to talk to the police this was after the police confronted him
00:45:01
at an intersection they noted that his black truck had a light coating of snow on it and the snow was dirty Harvey was
00:45:09
taken to the state police barracks and interviewed at 12 I'm sorry and interviewed around 2:20 p.m. on the day
00:45:19
of the murders he admitted that he was surprised by the paternity test results and that he and Kinsey argued over child
00:45:27
support payments but he told police that he didn't know where Kinsey lived and besides he said he had an alibi for the
00:45:35
morning of the shooting he had been at home in the basement of his parents house where he lived since 10 p.m. he
00:45:42
says the previous evening and that the only way out of the house was through the upstairs through an upstairs door
00:45:48
where his dad was his dad would have seen him leave and his father says that he never saw Harvey leave between
00:45:56
10 p.m. the night before and the time in question I don't like these aliis I spousal Alibi or family
00:46:06
Alibi uh nope I don't I don't buy them it's not an alibi to me per the court record Harvey's hands were tested at the
00:46:15
time by investigators for presence of gunshot residue but none was detected based on his proferred Alibi and the
00:46:22
presence of snow on the truck which the investigator opinion suggested that he could not have driven to wam a a
00:46:30
distance of about 8 to 10 miles away and then back without all the snow coming off so they say that the snow evidence
00:46:38
on his truck no gunshot residue on his person and The Alibi uh being at his parents home seems
00:46:48
to be enough for them to have moved on from from Harvey well he could have used the blanket himself and then therefore
00:46:54
there'd be no gun residue on his person yeah possibly I'm just a little confused why there's
00:47:01
no scientific evidence on the blanket itself it it makes right you can't I don't think you can have it both ways
00:47:09
right you cannot say that he used it to conceal the shotgun and I'm assuming their statement is that he
00:47:18
continued to cover the shotgun when he fired it and that's how the blanket got the hole in it but the problem with that
00:47:26
is why is there no gun evidence or blood evidence on that blanket when you're telling me the pathologist is saying
00:47:33
that the gun was 2 in or less from the victim when it was fired it just it doesn't ring true and you can't have it
00:47:42
both ways so either that blanket has nothing to do with the murder at all I mean that's what the the the scientific
00:47:50
evidence would suggest right or it was not used in the manner that they are implying that it was used well I see our
00:47:57
blog post blowing up this week again that's at True Crime garage.com I can't get over the fact
00:48:05
that this guy one exboyfriend he's abusive I can't get over the black truck Jordan is saying I saw this black truck
00:48:14
it's not the guy that I normally see in a black truck that's similar to this and
00:48:19
the fact that Jordan told people about this black truck before he was even interviewed by law enforcement yeah it's
00:48:25
difficult and this whole case to me is difficult because of the evidence or the lack thereof and
00:48:33
again it goes back to well how do you paint the picture and the way that they paint the picture is as such that it was
00:48:41
that gun in his room that was used it was the ammunition that was in keny's room that was used to kill her and
00:48:47
because of those factors those key factors and then janess is saying I saw him with the gun and I saw him Chuck
00:48:55
something into the yard when we ran to the bus well then that makes him your Prime Suspect however in reality is it's
00:49:02
never proven that that was the gun that was used it was never proven that that shell casing was the ammunition that was
00:49:08
used to kill Kenzie you have Janessa's changing stories she's seven years old is it
00:49:17
possible that somebody entered the home through an unlocked door shot and killed
00:49:24
this woman and then turned around and walked out and for whatever reason nobody detected tire tracks or
00:49:32
Footprints the bullet casing that they found in the yard that Jordan Brown chucked according to Janessa as they ran
00:49:40
out to the school bus was found underneath snow so it's also not crazy to think that there's potential o other evidence
00:49:50
that was then covered by snow after the murders in my opinion because of the prosecution controlled the language
00:49:58
controlled the narrative that's how they got the guilty verdict that they got against Jordan Brown yes he's found to
00:50:07
be guilty and after the trial we have Jack Hal who is keny's Father who called Jordan evil he stated quote I hope he
00:50:15
gets the help he needs the kids got a problem and we have her mother Debbie who told the media he's guilty and my
00:50:22
only reaction is yes he should have been found guilty but it ain't bringing back
00:50:27
Kenzie and the baby so Jordan is remanded to the custody of the juvenile facility until
00:50:35
the age of 21 now under state law during his juvenile treatment Jordan would receive
00:50:42
counseling and would also be evaluated every 6 months for possible release per the juvenile act every six months the
00:50:50
judge gets in effect a progress report on the child to determine if Jordan is fully rehabilitated and
00:50:58
releasable but at the latest he would get out in August of 2018 when he would be turning 21 years
00:51:08
of age this is one of the things that makes the case so difficult because if you believe that Jordan Brown is
00:51:14
responsible for the murder of his stepmom and his half sibling that him getting out of prison
00:51:25
when he's 21 is not Justice and that Jordan Brown got away with murder on the other hand if you don't think Jordan
00:51:34
Brown is responsible for the murders and you believe suspects like Adam Harvey should have been looked into
00:51:45
more then you could view that situation as Adam Harvey getting away with murder well and after the conviction we're
00:51:53
going to take Jordan's case all the way you know up the courts as they say and we're going to appeal this and we're
00:51:59
going to appeal that and we're going to challenge the ruling we're going to challenge the verdict and continue to
00:52:05
plea our case that Jordan is innocent and did not commit this murder now Jordan's arguments to the Supreme Court
00:52:16
are as follows that the gun in the shell in regard to the gun in the Shell the Supreme Court agreed
00:52:25
with Jordan that the evidence of the record did not support the juvenile Court's conclusion that the 20 gauge
00:52:32
shotgun recovered from the upstairs bedroom was the murder weapon the Supreme Court agreed that the 20 gauge
00:52:41
shotgun shell which was recovered from an area in which Jordan and his father had routinely shot such weapons on
00:52:47
previous occasions was found buried under snow covered ice and leaves raised a doubt as to whether it had been been
00:52:55
fired from the shotgun on the day of the murder also the school bus driver did not see him throw anything further
00:53:03
Jordan in his arguments to the Supreme Court points out that the Firearms expert could not directly link the
00:53:09
pellets recovered from the victim's body to the shotgun taken from Jordan's room the
00:53:16
test he ran showed only that the pellets recovered from the victim skull were quote consistent end quot in their size
00:53:23
shape weight and material with the pellets and the unfired shotgun shell located inside the armoire the Firearms
00:53:31
expert testified that smooth boore shotguns unlike rifles or pistols have no unique grooves in their barrels and
00:53:39
hence they do not produce any identifying marks on shotgun shell pellets discharged from a particular
00:53:47
shotgun as a result he could not perform an individualized comparison analysis of
00:53:54
the pellets which were recovered from the victim's body with the pellets in the box of shells located in the armor
00:54:02
that's a really long way of saying they were not able to determine if that ammunition was used to kill her right
00:54:11
which they said in their theory that they presented at court that that ammunition did kill her they're also not
00:54:17
able to prove that the gun was fired on that day that the gun was used to commit
00:54:23
that murder they present Ed it as it was and so basically what we're going to end
00:54:29
up having here Captain because I could go through about seven or eight more pages of this stuff in the end what they
00:54:37
are going to determine is that these items they don't necessarily weigh stronger one way or another do
00:54:48
they they don't necessarily suggest guilt or innocence they're all kind of just 5050 these these are the facts of
00:54:55
the case yes there were guns in the house a similar type gun was used to kill the victim yes there was ammunition
00:55:02
in the house a similar type ammunition was used to kill the victim but you can't put all these things together and
00:55:09
string them along and say that yes this happened this was used and this was used
00:55:15
by this person to kill this person you can't weigh one way or the other in an opinion or a determination of the facts
00:55:24
hold on to your seat for one of the most frustrating endings of a case so like we
00:55:31
said he was charged he gets out of prison charged tried and convicted yes and but but because of these appeals
00:55:40
here Captain what we end up with is the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania the Western Western District would
00:55:46
ultimately hand down a verdict in 2018 this is after n and a half years of legal back and forth and three Appeals
00:55:55
the court unanimously threw out Jordan's conviction it overturned the original guilty verdict the Supreme Court ruled
00:56:02
that the Commonwealth's evidence was insufficient as a matter of law to overcome Jordan's presumption of
00:56:10
innocence in fact the court concluded the forensic evidence and witness testimony could go either way being that
00:56:18
they were consistent with two possibilities his guilt and his innocence but by them throwing out his
00:56:27
conviction you would think that the state then wants to go after a different suspect but it doesn't seem like the
00:56:34
state's doing much to solve this this case well it's really uncommon for this to even go down the way that it did to
00:56:43
begin with and although the court did not go so far even though they threw out his conviction they didn't go so far as
00:56:50
to declare that Jordan was innocent it did reverse the juvenile court adjudication of his delinquency because
00:56:57
there was not enough evidence to convict him again a rare occurrence but because
00:57:03
he had already been tried for the murders now Double Jeopardy is attached and Jordan cannot be tried again
00:57:13
so he's free as you said uh but he was actually already released before they overturned his conviction as it turned
00:57:23
out pursuant to one of the every six months reviews that were called for by law when Jordan was found guilty he had
00:57:32
already been released when this ruling came down he was released in June of 2016 at the age of 18 he was released
00:57:39
from juvenile custody custody and placed on probation in the custody of an uncle
00:57:46
who lived in Ohio when he turned 21 he would be released from the probation so he got out of he got out of prison was
00:57:54
on this probation and would have been off of the probation when he turned 21 but before that the Supreme Court ruling
00:58:04
changed everything and again it overturned his conviction and he would no longer have the guilty verdict
00:58:10
hanging over his head or on his record but it's unsatisfying isn't it Captain that's what she said this whole case
00:58:18
this whole story all of the trials all of the legal stuff the shifting it's all very un satisfying because at the end of
00:58:26
the day we don't know who is responsible for these murders the state spent so much time telling us that Jordan Brown
00:58:34
was the one responsible for these murders and then the defense in the appeals process later tells us well we
00:58:41
can't really determine who in fact was responsible well basically telling us that Jordan we can't determine if he is
00:58:48
actually responsible just that there's not enough evidence to convict him so now you have
00:58:55
if you were to present this story this real life True Crime Story to a room of 100 people you're going to have 50 of
00:59:03
them that say he's guilty as hell and he got off easy and you're going to have the other 50 people that are probably
00:59:08
going to say they didn't find the right guy they didn't get the right guy and the real killer is still out there but
00:59:15
after presenting all the evidence is there something that sticks out to you that
00:59:21
maybe sways you one way or another there are severe concerns I have about some of
00:59:29
the statements and possible evidence in this case first off I don't like the contradicting stories of Jordan and the
00:59:42
bus driver in Jordan's story Janessa is ahead of him when he sees this truck that's parked by the garage when the
00:59:51
officer asked him did you tell Janessa about the truck he says I attempted to but I don't think she heard me because
00:59:58
she was too far ahead of me by this point the bus driver says that when he sees the kids running down the driveway
01:00:06
to get to the bus that Jordan was in front of Janessa by about 10 yards according to the bus driver in Janessa's
01:00:16
story she says that she saw Jordan Chuck the shotgun shell or Chuck something down toward the ground while they were
01:00:26
running on the driveway well if Jordan is behind her she can't see him Chuck anything so when we have three people
01:00:36
telling us a story here factual if we are to believe that only one of them would be lying or
01:00:45
believe that there's consist inconsistencies in their story well two of their stories are matching up and
01:00:51
that's not Jordan's version of those stories what's matching up is Janessa's version along with the bus driver's
01:01:00
version of that story so that doesn't look real good for Jordan in my opinion I have some very strong questions about
01:01:07
that part of the story I also have major concerns that I've already voiced time and time again about this blanket that
01:01:15
was found we're told by the state that it was a big part of the case and a big part of the murders yet there's no
01:01:23
scientific evidence to suggest that it had anything to do with the murders at all so that's a real kind of convoluted
01:01:30
part of this story the other thing that I want to point out too that we pointed out in episode one that that we talked
01:01:36
about briefly but we didn't go into detail of we have the story of Adeline that that changes throughout the years
01:01:45
when she originally spoke with police on the day of the murder now mind you she's
01:01:51
4 years old all right so we need to take this with with a grain of salt but when
01:01:56
she spoke with the officers on the day of the murders she said that she was up for a while she watched TV she ate some
01:02:02
food in the kitchen and then it was when she heard her mother's phone ring that she went into keny's room to find her
01:02:10
dead when she tells the story to 2020 years later she says that she wakes up to a loud boom which would be possibly a
01:02:22
shotgun blast I don't know I can't make heads or tails of which one is is correct it it
01:02:29
doesn't did she hear a shotgun blast wake up and then eat some food watch TV for a little bit and then does not go
01:02:36
into the room until the phone rings that's a possibility but the story is changing
01:02:43
and and the the problem of having little kids basically filling out the blanks for you has really left me kind of
01:02:52
confused in this story as to what I think possibly happened the black truck because Jordan could have easily
01:03:01
said yeah the black truck there's a guy that comes and feeds the animals that's who I saw he didn't say that he he went
01:03:09
a step further and said it looks like the same truck but it wasn't that guy and the fact that you have a protection
01:03:17
order against abusive [ __ ] already threat to kill her and her family multiple times that would
01:03:28
lead me away from Jordan being guilty but I don't think this case is that clear-cut and I think you could study
01:03:37
this one for a very long time and flip-flop on on whether you thought he was innocent or guilty I don't think it's
01:03:46
that clearcut in this case it's not it definitely is not and it's one that I've struggled with for the past week I will
01:03:55
leave everybody with this you know one of this is a crucial element in the case I believe and as we pointed out in
01:04:04
episode one the time frame the timeline is very crucial to this case and every minute
01:04:12
counts and we have the story and this comes from Jordan when he's first asked by the
01:04:21
officers from Trooper Wilson's report quote when asked what time it was Jordan Brown stated that they usually leave the
01:04:30
house at 8:12 but since his mom was telling them they needed to go or they were going to be late he stated that it
01:04:38
was probably 88:13 or 8:14 everyone's statements are that the bus came to pick them up at 8:12 to 8:15
01:04:47
every morning one thing that I think is very interesting and I wonder why it is missing
01:04:55
from The Trial was that Janessa was never asked to testify about her statements about
01:05:03
that morning and we do know that those statements seem to have changed or morphed through the course of multiple
01:05:12
interviews she's not asked to testify what she witnessed that morning and I think that that is key
01:05:21
here because if if you really believed her if you were the state and you really believed everything that she told you
01:05:29
which was one of the things that led to the arrest of Jordan Brown well wouldn't
01:05:33
you use that in Your Arsenal against this guy to convict him the obvious answer is yes but they did not why does
01:05:43
she at any point did she at any point back up Jordan's statement of well I heard keny yell I heard my mother
01:05:52
yell that we were going to be late that we need to go outside or we're going to be late or we're going to miss the bus
01:06:00
if she were to back up Jordan Brown statement then that would have gave him approximately 2 to 3 minutes to go
01:06:08
upstairs retrieve the gun cover it with the blanket go downstairs find the ammunition load it point it to the back
01:06:15
of her head pull the trigger and Janessa does not hear the shotgun go off and then he goes back upstairs unloads the
01:06:23
gun wipes it down puts it away and then runs out the front door and Chucks the shell casing as he's running to the bus
01:06:32
gets on the bus and then behaves like nothing happened at all it seems very very doubtful to me that that
01:06:42
could have went down in a matter of two to three minutes whatever side of the fence you're on whether you think he's
01:06:48
guilty or innocent somebody got away with murder [Music] this case leaves a lot of questions we
01:07:11
want to hear your thoughts and opinions go to true garage.com and leave those on the blog
01:07:17
Colonel do we have any recommended reading this week for the beautiful listeners this week we are recommending
01:07:22
the spy and the trader the greatest Espionage story of the Cold War by Ben McIntyre you're going to love this book
01:07:31
I am about halfway through this one here captain and excited to recommend it to everyone out there so check out the spy
01:07:37
and the trader the greatest Espionage story of the Cold War by Ben McIntyre you can find that great title and many
01:07:43
more recommendations on our recommended page at true Crim garage.com and until next week you beautiful people be good
01:07:51
be kind and don't litter [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
01:08:33
thought it was an Eco move few worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic must be
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a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service instantly
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and even get your project handled from start to finish sounds easy it is and it makes us so much more than just to list
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get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app today