00:00:00
foreign [Music] foreign foreign [Music] garage wherever you are whatever you are
00:00:44
doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that
00:00:48
knows that beer is proof that God loves us and he wants us to be happy he is the
00:00:53
captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for
00:01:00
telling a friend [Music] tonight we are drinking liquid Sunshine by our friends from Breakside Brewery in
00:01:11
Portland Oregon garage grade four and a half bottle caps out of five this is breakside's year-round German style
00:01:17
pilsner because any time of year is a great time for Breakside and like I said on yesterday's show go get you some
00:01:25
because it is good good tasty business and Breakside and Breakside liquid Sunshine was brought to us up by some of
00:01:32
our good friends can't I can't get the words out of them because you keep saying tasty business
00:01:39
all right it's brought To Us by our good friends first up we have auntie and Helsinki and from beautiful Parts
00:01:44
Unknown we have Tracy and Louise next we have Kevin from looting to Michigan Kevin says he's just emerged from behind
00:01:52
the Walmart referencing one of our old cases of course who knows maybe maybe Kevin sleeps behind the Walmart and a
00:01:58
big shout out to Catherine in Houston Texas a lot of beautiful women in Houston Texas we also have Sarah and
00:02:05
Angie they are two former Ohioans now living in beautiful Denver Colorado oh I oh and last but not least we have Nicole
00:02:13
and Silver Spring Maryland so thanks to everybody for giving us the beer for this week's show if you want to buy us
00:02:19
around for next week's show and fill up the fridge go to truecrimegarage.com and
00:02:23
click on the Donate button we'd like your jib and for all bonus episodes we have a couple out the brick of family
00:02:30
murders and Tony Muncie you want to check those out in the iTunes store so you go to the iTunes Store and search
00:02:37
True Crime garage and we have some episodes there check those out all right that's enough of the business everybody
00:02:42
gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] thank you
00:03:11
foreign [Music] there were a new developments in the search for a little boy who's been
00:03:23
missing for four days now Kyron Horman vanished from his Portland Oregon Elementary School on Friday since then
00:03:29
police have received more than a thousand tips but so far have come up empty the search for seven-year-old Kyron
00:03:36
Horman is well into its fourth night and so far nothing foreign state and federal agencies are now
00:03:45
involved searching the thick wooded area around kyron's Elementary School stopping cars handing out flyers and
00:03:52
pleading for information Kyron we're gonna we're gonna bring you home buddy um nothing is more important to your family
00:04:02
your friends to us Chiron was last seen by his stepmother after a science fair at the school early Friday morning
00:04:09
walking down a hallway toward a second grade classroom she says he was wearing this CSI t-shirt and dark cargo pants it
00:04:16
appears he didn't make it to any of his classes and his teachers just considered
00:04:20
him absent for the day his stepmother reported him missing when he didn't come home on the school bus Friday afternoon
00:04:26
coming out here you haven't found him this long it's not a good feeling but it just seems to have evaporated Into Thin
00:04:34
Air and that's that's just scary and even with more than 1200 tips to follow up on police are still asking for more
00:04:42
and kyron's mother has not spoken publicly public publicly yet she says she doesn't want to jeopardize that
00:04:47
investigation and authorities are now calling Chiron a missing endangered child but have yet to say whether he was
00:04:54
kidnapped or just wandered off thank you [Music] foreign [Music] on Friday June 4th 2010 seven-year-old
00:05:16
Kyron Horman is driven to school by his stepmother they get out of the car around 8 A.M just afterward and they
00:05:24
attend the science fair for a little bit that day now his stepmother is the last
00:05:30
person to see him this is at the Skyline Elementary School in Portland Oregon and
00:05:36
Chiron is in the second grade now he's last seen around 8 45 a.m this would be during the hours of the science fair
00:05:44
which was to take place from 8 to 10 a.m that morning and he's not seen in attendance at his first class that day
00:05:52
which started at 10 A.M now on yesterday's show we got through the Friday June 4th and the events that took
00:05:59
place he was eventually reported missing this would be before 4 pm that day and a
00:06:05
full search was conducted of both the Chiron hormann home and the school that he attended in the rounds nearby and
00:06:13
then where we left off was the start of that Saturday June 5th well on June 5th at 5 a.m the Pacific Northwest search
00:06:21
and rescue this is another Search Group which was called by the sheriff's office
00:06:25
they joined the search effort soon after this time and when they arrive on site there are already about 60 to 70 people
00:06:33
involved in the search a little after 9 A.M that day the Associated Press receives its first official notification
00:06:41
that Kyron Horman is missing via email the subject line was Sheriff's Office continues to search for seven-year-old
00:06:49
Kyron Horman and at this time there is a tip line that is created as well on noon that day
00:06:55
there's a news conference and at that news conference a sheriff's spokesman says that the search for Chiron is still
00:07:02
a missing person's case and not a criminal investigation the Portland Public School District uses its rapid
00:07:09
broadcast system to alert staff and parents of skyline school students that were at school on Friday to come to the
00:07:18
K-8 on Sunday for a briefing by police and federal agents quickly in this case the law enforcement is going to ask for
00:07:27
help from the FBI but they're also going to get the National Guard involved in the initial searches yes because that
00:07:33
evening the FBI National Guard they joined the search effort and that afternoon a complete immediate grid
00:07:40
search around the school is conducted now after 10 pm that day a Facebook page is created for supporters of Chiron and
00:07:49
his family the next day Day on Sunday June 6th just before 9 A.M chiron's stepmother Terry post on Facebook and
00:07:58
says she has ordered missing persons Flyers her words I ordered 1 000 Flyers they will be coming to our home I will
00:08:07
let people know when they are here so we can go from there thank you everyone around this time the FBI announces that
00:08:15
they have brought in a Quantico virginia-based profiler to create a profile of the missing boy
00:08:23
just before 10 a.m that day students and their parents return to the skyline school to be interviewed by detectives
00:08:32
50 detectives are on hand for interviews that continue until 4 pm that day now my
00:08:38
understanding is Captain they they try to organize this thing best that they could because they have students and
00:08:44
parents arriving to be questioned by detectives and interviewed and they set up a system where they actually
00:08:50
interviewed the older students first you know we mentioned that this was a k through eight so they started with the
00:08:57
older kids first working their way down to the younger ones which makes a lot of
00:09:01
sense because we'd assume that their eyewitness statements from older students would be just more reliable
00:09:06
yeah they'll hold more weight and this is an urgent situation if he's in a situation where he's in danger you need
00:09:13
to get to him as fast as you can so you want to check for those most likely credible tips first one interesting
00:09:19
thing about this search is I mean the Big Grid search that you were just talking about because I mean I guess one
00:09:25
of the thoughts would be well if he was unsupervised during this science fair time uh from like nine to ten o'clock
00:09:33
who's to say that he didn't just walk out of the school right and wander off but then how much distance is this
00:09:39
seven-year-old going to cover so that that's why they did that giant grid search like you were talking about yeah
00:09:45
and that later that same day relatives begin Distributing missing person Flyers with a photo of Chiron and this
00:09:53
description that he is three feet eight inches tall 50 pounds blue eyes brown hair and last seeing seen wearing black
00:10:01
cargo pants white socks and black Sketcher tennis shoes with orange trim at 9 00 PM the sheriff's department they
00:10:10
escalate chiron's disappearance to a missing endangered child case but they do not call it a kidnapping at this time
00:10:18
on Monday June 7th early in the morning 8 teen certified search and rescue volunteers resume sweeping the area near
00:10:28
the school as deputies canvas the neighborhood handing out flyers and jotting down license plate numbers of
00:10:35
passing Vehicles along Northwest Skyline Boulevard that is a very clever idea and
00:10:41
for those of you wondering why would they do this this seems a bit random what they're doing here is they're kind
00:10:46
of casting a wide net because okay this is Monday morning and at the time that they're doing this this would be roughly
00:10:52
about the same time that Chiron would have been at school and then had gone missing right and so in this same time
00:10:59
frame they just want to get a general idea of who would be typically passing through this area during that time by
00:11:07
jotting down those license plates the the similarities here is it's a business day just like it was on Friday it was a
00:11:13
school day just like it was on Friday who would be traveling who would be you know this would be somebody's normal
00:11:19
route well maybe they're a suspect maybe they happen to see see something that day that they don't realize is of
00:11:25
importance I think the other thing too is possibly if somebody took Chiron then possibly they're coming back to the
00:11:33
scene of the crime yes and around 8 45 a.m that day classes resume at Skyline school counselors are on hand and they
00:11:42
also set up some kind of counseling hotline this would be to answer questions and obviously offer help to
00:11:49
people that are traumatized or saddened by this situation now on the same morning kyron's stepmother Terry she
00:11:57
posts on Facebook that she is hitting the gym um and this is met with a lot of a lot of
00:12:06
frown faces let's say a lot of people a little bit upset that she seems to be hitting the gym and posting that she's
00:12:14
hitting the gym on Facebook while a whole bunch of people were out looking for her stepson
00:12:19
now on Wednesday just two days later Wednesday June 9th uh in the morning Terry she makes her Facebook page
00:12:28
private which makes sense because she's received a lot of flack for her hitting the gym comment that she made
00:12:36
at 11 A.M on that Wednesday an FBI spokeswoman announces that the Horman family is not speaking to the media
00:12:43
because they do not believe it is in the best interest of finding Chiron at noon
00:12:49
news briefings begin this is with the sheriff's department uh Sheriff's Captain Mike Schultz reads a statement
00:12:57
from kyron's family stating kyron's family would like to thank people for support and interest in finding their
00:13:04
son the outpour of support and continued effort strengthens their hope I mean other than the non-support about the
00:13:12
Facebook comments yeah we need for you folks to continue to assist us in our goal please search your properties your
00:13:22
cars outbuildings sheds Etc also check with neighbors and friends who may be on vacation or may need assistance in
00:13:32
searching their property so this is we've seen this in several cases before this is kind of a cry for
00:13:39
help to the public to the general public while this is where the search to me becomes pretty sad because it's pretty
00:13:45
obvious that this is a criminal case it's starting to look that way it's been three days he's still gone now on
00:13:53
Thursday June 10th and Friday June 11th the search resumes but this time the search expands to a place called Savvy
00:14:02
Island which is a I understand it's about six miles from the school uh obviously there's a lot of water there
00:14:10
this is also kind of a very inhabited area I guess a lot of a lot of fields and things like that so they've they've
00:14:20
expanded the search to the Savi Island at 1 pm they're going to have a press conference this is the clip that we play
00:14:26
in part one of this four-part series yeah you hear the stepfather speaking at this press conference as well as kyron's
00:14:33
father now by this point we're we're one week removed you know one week after The
00:14:39
Disappearance and still no Chiron now on that Sunday June 13th at noon the Sheriff's Office announces that the
00:14:47
massive search for Chiron has ended and the case has been shifted to a criminal investigation this was a huge search you
00:14:56
know lasted over 10 it lasted 10 days by this point one of the largest in State history
00:15:02
they have checked to a two mile radius around Skyline school and also parts of Savi Island the Sheriff's Office also
00:15:11
announces it is looking for any video footage of traffic on several different Portland area roads in the general area
00:15:18
near the school it's clear to me that the FBI is involved because I mean some of these ideas that they're coming up
00:15:25
with these are things that have been missed in other cases correct now before we move on past this weekend I want to
00:15:32
talk about some things that happened within the first week of the search for Chiron was Terry working out more
00:15:40
um yeah apparently I was posting she posted uh five times on Facebook that she's working out yeah well it was she
00:15:48
went into the oldies she went to the gym at least on the day that he went missing
00:15:52
and then again on early in the week after um you know it's strange because at one
00:16:00
point she was some type of was into bodybuilding it was a hobby of hers for a short period of time she even
00:16:08
participated in competitions so when you hear that part of her life you think well this is somebody that was very
00:16:15
regimented and probably working out was a daily part of their life she was many years removed from from that Hobby and
00:16:26
she wasn't as regimented as one would think a bodybuilder to be because like I said this is this is five six years
00:16:33
after she last competed and she had a child yes and so I don't think she was working out that often it seems or maybe
00:16:42
you seem a little weird though that maybe some time has freed up in your life and the gym becomes more of a
00:16:51
priority uh I don't know how much she was doing this before The Disappearance you know
00:16:56
yeah so then look it's not that weird that she drops off uh you know her stepson at school and then she goes to
00:17:03
the gym that seems like a normal activity especially if you're trying to get involved it's not even that probably
00:17:09
abnormal if somebody you know I get stressed out pretty easy one of the things that can relieve a bunch of
00:17:15
stress for me is I've you know run a couple miles or lift a little you know a couple weights sometimes that helps uh
00:17:22
so maybe that's what she's doing I think the downfall here is that you posted on
00:17:25
social media like you said while you're why people are searching for your kid I think I'd also have a really hard time
00:17:32
doing anything other than searching right and I think that's you know kind of suspicious there
00:17:39
and like you said I mean at one point she was in in really good shape she probably it looked like at one point she
00:17:46
went to the gym and she hit the weights hard and now she kind of looks like she goes to the gym and
00:17:52
um eats ice cream all right I got a little sidetracked we got a little side track there but some things that of
00:17:58
other questionable behavior that I wanted to bring up before we move on past this weekend here so sometime
00:18:03
during the first week that Kyron is missing some news reports start coming out about Kane's brother remember Kane
00:18:11
is kyron's Father uh his brother his brother's name is Christian the news is that back in 2008 Christian molested his
00:18:20
15 year old stepdaughter uh he was caught and convicted for these charges but it wasn't until 2009 that he was
00:18:28
arrested for this and then in June uh he started to serve his sentence this was for a third degree charge so he served
00:18:38
like about a six month sentence in this so he would have been out of prison at the time of chiron's disappearance he
00:18:46
was investigated pretty heavily and looked at pretty pretty well early in the get-go and he was cleared uh for
00:18:53
good reason I'm guessing uh very early into this investigation but it's something we should buy should mention
00:18:59
yeah they don't State what it is but I'm guessing that he had a solid Alibi and then we also have the situation Captain
00:19:05
where we get a story from kyron's stepmother Terry that she's at the gym no this is a story that seems a little
00:19:14
different than the story that we've already been told okay so what is the previous story was that she last Saw
00:19:22
Chiron walking toward his classroom his first class classroom door his feet from
00:19:28
the door approximately at 8 45 a.m when she leaves the school to go about her day
00:19:35
in this second story she sees him in this same general area but this time Chiron is with an
00:19:43
unidentified male an adult so we have we have this edition of this unidentified person popping up in the
00:19:53
Second Story here yeah so what do you think of that I think it's very fishy um I I think as far as a parent goes
00:20:03
when you're being asked when the last time you saw your missing child whether it be a stepchild or your own that
00:20:10
you're probably visualizing everything that you thought you saw and I you would you would
00:20:16
include anything you know what I mean like possibly have you ever like I've been asked questions by the police
00:20:22
before for what for things that I that I may have witnessed or may not have witnessed but what I tend to do when I'm
00:20:29
in those situations is I want to lie I want to be as forthcoming as possible so usually I will even include things that
00:20:37
I think have no relevancy to what they're talking about well no I'm just I can see a law enforcement guy
00:20:45
interviewing you and then going this guy is just telling me a bunch of nonsense to throw me off the scent no but let me
00:20:52
give you an example okay because I'm trying to help be as helpful as possible so let's say if if a detective asked me
00:21:00
hey Nick on Friday at noon did you see a brown car on this road my answer would be probably a little more than he'd want
00:21:10
maybe but I would say I didn't see a brown car but I remember seeing a blue car you know it right right it may have
00:21:17
something to do with the the situation it may not but I you I tend to think of everything I could possibly think of and
00:21:24
then include it in my statement what I'm getting at by this is I don't see that there's a way that she's asked about the
00:21:30
last time that she saw her stepson and all of a sudden now this dude magically appears in her memory yeah yeah I mean
00:21:39
I I get what you're feeling for me though it's like it might have been one of those things where it's like I don't
00:21:45
know I yeah I don't know exactly what happened I saw him walking towards his room and maybe he was talking to one of
00:21:52
his friends or whatever and maybe she just didn't you know at the time it wasn't that big of a deal I mean they
00:21:57
probably asked her this first question like the day he went missing right and then maybe as she was pondering it or
00:22:05
the fact that people are like well there's no record of him being in the homeroom
00:22:09
and maybe that bothered her and as she kept pondering it and pondering it maybe she was like well you know what
00:22:18
hypothetically speaking what if she's like well I saw him with this kid and then they talked to the kid and the kid
00:22:23
doesn't remember then at some point she was like oh well there was this there was this man that
00:22:28
was close and maybe he could um you know have my story make sense or maybe he had some idea I just saying
00:22:36
it's not it's not out of the question that somebody would remember uh start remembering a little more details as
00:22:43
time was passing you would think that that story would come out sooner but again I don't think it's super nefarious
00:22:50
you know I get it I get it but I'm I'm thinking that that she would have been questioned
00:22:56
and ask questions many times over and over again about that story very early yeah I would hope so but
00:23:04
we're talking about a situation where we have by the end of Friday the same day that he went missing their home had been
00:23:10
searched so I'm guessing just by that I'm going to go with should probably been interviewed by police by that point
00:23:17
maybe more than once by the by the morning the next morning the FBI has arrived and they're on the scene I bet
00:23:25
you she's questioning again at that time we don't know what notes right but what
00:23:29
notes were they taking what was recorded did she did she ever mention this in passing you know I think it's
00:23:36
you know it's an interesting point but I think it's one of the pieces of this case that kind of gets brought up a
00:23:42
bunch like well she changed her story but it's like but she didn't change her story much it was just oh it's just the
00:23:49
addition of this guy right and there might have been an adult uh a male adult chaperone by him it's a possibility but
00:23:57
I think some people look at it too even if you don't look at it as changing the story because but let's stop this
00:24:03
because that's what it is it's changing this it's a different story okay um with the addition now we have the
00:24:09
edition of this dude is that taking is that adding that's adding to the equation a possibility no I look I agree
00:24:17
but I I think change in the story is is one thing if she you know if there was a big
00:24:23
change of the story I to me this is addition to the story so that's where I'm saying that that's the difference
00:24:29
for me but is it any different than saying I last saw him with a python next to him
00:24:35
um yes yeah yeah I know those words are different there's a human and there's a pipe python right but what I'm getting
00:24:41
at is I think the implication here is that I last saw him by himself now I've last seen him with
00:24:49
probably his abductor or a python right I get your point though right I mean because we're talking about we have a
00:25:00
few possibilities that took place he ran off on his own somebody that knew him took him or somebody that didn't know
00:25:07
him take him right so when when you when you throw out there that oh I saw him with some dude well now all of a sudden
00:25:13
you're throwing out something that likely could be the outcome of what took place it's it's
00:25:19
a very big addition you know uh I I get that it's not totally changing it's adding but it's a very big addition to
00:25:28
the story we'll get right back to Facebook posts and Python's right after this quick beer break
00:25:34
foreign [Music] cheers mates cheers Captain well now we're going to get to the juicy stuff
00:25:57
okay because on Monday June 14th the Sheriff's Office sends divers to Savvy Island where divers can be seen waiting
00:26:06
in waste high water near the Savi Island Bridge well why does this Savvy Island keep popping up and why do they keep
00:26:12
going back there to search well we have to talk about some cell phone pings going off of the tower that is located
00:26:20
there yeah the famous cell phone pings and as so far as we can tell Terry the stepmother who was in charge of dropping
00:26:27
Chiron off at school that day may have been the last person to have seen him in the school
00:26:34
well she gives an account of what she was doing that day and remember we have that window where she's driving the
00:26:41
toddler around to try to ease her earache and help her fall asleep well she can be you basically gotta say
00:26:50
she's unaccounted for during that time frame well they her phone her cell phone pings
00:26:57
off of that tower that is located on Savvy Island so the issue here is police and investigators are working on the
00:27:05
situation that she may have been on that island during that time and like we know
00:27:10
with cell phone technology it is possible that the Ping happened on that island but she wasn't on the island
00:27:17
right but we can assume that maybe that ping is right and she was on that island
00:27:22
at some point during that Gap right and at no time did she ever tell investigators that she was on Savvy
00:27:28
Island now we don't know much about this area because we don't live there but I wonder if it's like you were saying
00:27:35
before when we're talking on the phone you said but wouldn't you know if you're on an island right but again it's like
00:27:42
one of those things where it's like it's only six miles away from the school right so it's like I don't know the area
00:27:49
that well so I don't know if it would be possible for her to be to be driving around and not for sure if she ever
00:27:56
drove on the island or not so from my understanding is this cell phone tower on Savvy Island would be the second
00:28:04
closest one to where she would have been that day okay so but we the problem is like you
00:28:12
said that doesn't we we know this now back in 2010 it might not have been so clear but we know now that sometimes the
00:28:19
the phone call or the pings don't necessarily go to the the closest Tower right where you are located because
00:28:27
there there is that glitch and we've learned that from other cases I believe that was one thing that was discussed
00:28:33
quite a bit in the Adnan Saeed case um so I think I think we have a situation here where they're probably
00:28:40
right to be searching the island but I don't know how much weight we can put into this because
00:28:45
there's a chance that she she could have pinged off that Tower never have been on
00:28:50
that island that day now that brings us to Tuesday June 15th um at 8 45 a.m this is the final day of
00:28:59
classes for school uh for the Skyline Elementary School and of course they end school that day at 3 P.M we want to be
00:29:07
clear about this date because there was some news uh interviews that came out early in this case where somebody
00:29:14
misspoke and said that uh that school was actually the last day of school would have been the day that Kyron went
00:29:21
missing yeah it was actually an investigator so it became a big thing because everybody's going well this
00:29:28
investigator said that it was the last day but yeah it wasn't the last day yeah I believe it was a retired uh Sheriff's
00:29:34
Department investigator um the problem with this why why is this such a big deal what day the last day of
00:29:41
school was well because there's an issue because Terry at one point had told kyron's teachers that he was to have a
00:29:50
doctor's appointment on Friday right and the way that it's reported is that she simply said he's having a doctor's
00:29:57
appointment on Friday well this causes a lot of confusion because he went missing
00:30:02
on a Friday the issue here is that the teachers are saying that it no red flags went off when he was absent from school
00:30:10
that day when he was missing classes because we had been told by the stepmother that he would be at a
00:30:17
doctor's appointment later Terry would tell investigators no I was speaking about the following Friday right which
00:30:24
again it's just it depends on when she said this to the teachers and did they hear her right or did she misspeak uh
00:30:33
who knows right but I think this is one of those things where we have a He Said She Said She Said She Said situation
00:30:41
um you know and it just might just be one of these unclear things but one of the reasons that people point this out
00:30:48
is they think that if they told this the teachers on the Tuesday hey he's going to be absent because of
00:30:55
this doctor's appointment that that would give no red flags on why he'd be gone from the school right and that's
00:31:00
why people keep pointing this out so on that same Tuesday the last day of school
00:31:07
um we have the Sheriff's Office releasing a photo of a pair of glasses that are just like the type that Kyron
00:31:15
was wearing when he was last seen and then at 3 30 that afternoon the Sheriff's Office releases a new version
00:31:24
of the photo of Chiron at his school science fair this version created using photo editing software shows what Chiron
00:31:33
would look like without his glasses so what the what the heck does this mean well this this is very interesting
00:31:39
because now I think we have a situation where they they've had time to think this through and anybody that looks at
00:31:46
kyron's picture as a captain said or he's a he's a cute kid he's very very cute kid but he he does wear these big
00:31:53
glasses that can potentially distract you a little bit from the features of his face right well
00:32:01
what if he was abducted or removed from the school against his will and at some point he loses his glasses because of or
00:32:10
some kind of scuffle or the abductor says hey take your glasses off yeah and throws him out the window of of the
00:32:17
abductor's car right so now we we need to be concerned that we could very potentially be looking for the exact
00:32:24
same boy without this identifier of having glasses on the other thing is if you think that that story is plausible
00:32:31
or it's something that may have happened well then you also should be looking for
00:32:36
these actual glasses yeah I think they brought this up because there was a bigger lead that maybe that we don't
00:32:43
know about or they didn't discuss because I mean obviously you're going to look for you know a pair of glasses that
00:32:49
are just laying in the middle of nowhere you're going to be looking for possibly
00:32:53
a CSI shirt you're gonna be looking for a bunch of different things of this little boy now two weeks after Chiron
00:33:00
has been missing the Sheriff's Office releases a flyer asking parents and kids about June 4th the flyer has photos of
00:33:07
Chiron Terry his stepmother and a picture of a pickup truck which is similar to the one that she was driving
00:33:14
on the day that he went missing right the family approves this flyer and it's then sent out to the public
00:33:23
and this kind of paints a strange picture here right because we're not at any point having the Sheriff's Office
00:33:29
say that Terry the stepmother is a suspect right but this flyer kind of points to that yeah because now they're
00:33:36
asking hey have you seen this boy okay if you haven't seen this boy have you seen this woman and have you seen this
00:33:42
pickup truck or any of the three you know two or four three together all of them all of them together I mean because
00:33:47
that's the big thing here is I mean she's driving around town with her daughter in the car and she also has her
00:33:54
stepson in the car wouldn't there possibly be an eyewitness out there that would see all three together
00:34:01
and then we have on Thursday June 24th the kyron's family releases three home videos and 200 photos of Chiron uh this
00:34:11
you know trying to get a different image and different angles of this kid to get
00:34:15
more things out into the public so everybody keeps looking for them on Saturday June 26th at 5 17 p.m the
00:34:24
first of two 9-1-1 calls were made from the Horman residents this first call comes in as a
00:34:32
quote-unquote threat call and the sheriff's deputy responded to the call later that same day this is just before
00:34:42
midnight a second call was made from the Horman residence to 9-1-1 this call has
00:34:48
been classified as a custody issue so going back to the threat call is that somebody threatening somebody else or so
00:34:56
that would be my guess because really that's all we have to go off of but here's what we do know we can use some
00:35:02
other information in this to to figure out what that threat call was that's probably some kind of domestic
00:35:07
disturbance or domestic situation between Terry the stepmother and Kane the father right and the reason being is
00:35:16
the second call is a custody issue well Chiron is missing uh the only other kid that would be at the home at this point
00:35:23
would be their daughter that they had together oh yeah but they have the older son but by this point he's moved out of
00:35:30
the home okay so there's only one child in there and that child has the has both
00:35:36
parents lived together in this home right because here's the issue at some point and I don't know the exact date
00:35:42
but I do know that it took place sometime after those two nine one nine one one calls on a Saturday and before
00:35:50
like let's say midday on Monday right Kane kyron's father he moves out of the home out of the family home and he takes
00:35:58
the daughter with him when he leaves so I think it's obvious that there's some kind of there's some kind of argument or
00:36:06
thing that escalated between the two of them within the home that at some point led to him leaving with his daughter I
00:36:13
think he's sick and tired of her sick and tired of her posting about her workouts on Facebook well then we have
00:36:22
on okay so let's talk about Monday June 28th this is uh People magazine comes out on this day and it's important
00:36:29
because this issue featured kyron's story now we have Terry's father Larry uh he's interviewed and he told the
00:36:38
magazine that she has that Terry has been subjected to repeated interviews of up to six hours each and that the truck
00:36:46
she was driving on the day that Chiron disappeared has been inspected twice now yeah but the problem with that truck is
00:36:54
if you're gonna find DNA evidence of that little boy being in the truck because that's her his father's truck
00:36:58
yeah I don't think I don't see anything strange with her being interviewed or the truck being inspected uh I think
00:37:06
that there's been there seems to be some kind of focus on her at this point and that's what he's
00:37:12
being asked about and furthermore he's asked whether he thought that his daughter would be arrested to which he
00:37:17
applies or replies with tears in his eyes it's probably 50 50. now later that afternoon Terry denies
00:37:26
the news that her husband and daughter had moved out of the family home stating everything's good giving a thumbs up to
00:37:35
reporters saying that we heard that rumor it's just a rumor that needs to be squelched everything is fine
00:37:43
look I mean I I look I know you can't like he's trying to make fun of people the
00:37:50
way they look you know but I mean she kind of looks like a turtle okay and I'm just picturing that little turtle with
00:37:57
the thumbs up everything's good he he took your daughter and he left his house right not you know
00:38:06
there's this is not time for thumbs up well yeah and I mean she's probably getting information to not be speaking
00:38:14
about this yeah yeah of course uh as much as what's going on and who knows what took place with inside those four
00:38:20
walls on that Saturday um now that same day kyron's father mother and stepfather
00:38:29
they asked the Sheriff's Office to release a statement stating they were cooperating in the
00:38:35
investigation now the Stepmother's name Terry's name was obviously absent from this statement
00:38:42
so basically you have the the Sheriff's Office releasing a statement saying we have four parents three of them are
00:38:51
cooperating one of them is not with this investigation yeah but again if she's doing six hour interviews I mean she's
00:38:58
cooperating on some level Terry is also served with a restraining order on that day and she's not supposed
00:39:07
to be near the family home or returning to the family home until that you know order is lifted now
00:39:15
Cain the the father of current does he say that she made threats during an argument or
00:39:21
What's Happening Here well because there's a restraining order so normally you have to show proof of why you need a
00:39:29
restraining order well we're about to find that out because on Sunday July 4th okay so we're so now we're just about a
00:39:39
week after those 9-1-1 calls and we are just about what six seven days after the restraining order
00:39:47
yeah we have a newspaper that reveals that a landscaper who worked for chiron's family at their home told
00:39:57
authorities that the missing boy's stepmother offered to pay him to kill her husband
00:40:03
he said that Terry approached him with a murder For Hire plot approximately six to seven months before Chiron
00:40:11
disappeared and she reportedly offered the landscaper a large sum of money this story or this part of the story is super
00:40:21
odd to me yeah because the because what you're going to tell the listeners is that the husband
00:40:29
he's pretty shocked that you know she would try to hire the landscaper to kill him but he's also pretty shocked that
00:40:36
they have a landscaper right so let's get into this because this is really a big part of this case
00:40:42
so we have this situation we would later learn that the investigators informed Kane about this murder For Hire plot
00:40:53
and it was shortly after that that he moved out so I'm thinking he finds out she may have tried to have me killed
00:41:00
right so now now there's going to be probably some 9-1-1 calls that involve some kind of domestic thing and then a
00:41:09
uh I'm taking the kid and I'm I'm going to Idaho you know um because you'll never find me there the um
00:41:18
because he likes potatoes well let's take let's take a look at this because the situation is this the landscaper
00:41:25
comes forward tells the police about this situation the police try to do some form of Investigation they hook up a
00:41:32
wire to this guy they return him to Terry with a with another guy you know and Terry's like oh who's who's this
00:41:40
dude you know I thought you and I were talking about some things and he goes hey I'm not going to do this I'm just
00:41:46
going to be the middle man right you know this is going to be the supposed Hitman uh that we're going to use for
00:41:53
this murder For Hire plot the thing is Terry never says anything to incriminate herself when they are recording these
00:42:01
conversations she actually waves it off and says I don't know what you guys are talking about I don't know why you're
00:42:07
here right and so that is is pushed aside real quick as far as the police being able to do anything with this
00:42:16
information or with this story now the way that I've heard that the way that I've seen this reported and what I've
00:42:23
read says that the landscaper would tell police that at no time did she ever directly
00:42:32
say to him when they were one on one you know would you kill my husband and I will pay you X number of dollars that
00:42:41
never happened that conversation never happened according to the landscaper what he says is that he that she
00:42:47
approached him and through conversation she told him that her husband was a very
00:42:54
abusive man um and that he often walked around with about ten thousand dollars on his person
00:43:02
and basically implying that if if it looked like a mugging and he ends up dead the person that did
00:43:11
the mugging could walk away with quite a bit of money yeah I just don't know how
00:43:15
much I believe this landscaper at all you know because yeah they might you know she never uh asked me to kill him
00:43:25
she just kind of implied it and it's like yeah but maybe she just implied that she wasn't happy in the marriage
00:43:32
and this guy's kind of a jerk of a guy and yeah he cares around money I mean who knows right I mean and then and then
00:43:40
the big thing to me is when did the cops learn about this did they learn about it
00:43:44
before The Disappearance did they learn about it after The Disappearance right because that's where all the weight of
00:43:50
the situation comes and the words that are used come into play because had this guy come forward before Kyron went
00:43:57
missing well then you say well this I would lent I would tend to believe that this likely happened that this
00:44:04
conversation happened and that he believed that he was supposed to kill this this man this abusive husband but
00:44:11
don't you think this mucky's up everything like if you knew about this before The Disappearance you couldn't
00:44:16
prove anything and then if you learn about this after The Disappearance and you couldn't prove anything after The
00:44:21
Disappearance then given this information to the father doesn't that just like make every Everything really
00:44:29
Mucky right yeah and here here's why I tend to believe that it's it's more likely that police learn about this
00:44:37
situation after Chiron had disappeared we're talking about a situation even if they even if they wiretap right and they
00:44:46
come up with nothing right don't you think that they're going to approach the potential Target at some
00:44:52
point to at least notify him that there's a chance that your life could be in danger yeah do I mean I would think
00:44:59
they would have an obligation to do that but yeah so maybe I don't know that's a tough one I
00:45:06
mean at the very least don't you think you're getting a phone call from the police saying do you know so and so he
00:45:13
says he's your landscaper I mean at the very least and then we hear later the father saying I didn't even know we had
00:45:20
a landscaper right and the the problem with this and we were talking about this earlier is
00:45:25
what if this landscaper's just full of [ __ ] because one the parent the father says
00:45:30
I didn't even know we had a landscaper right and I was telling you I think for you not to know that you have a
00:45:35
landscaper and we disagree on this but for me if I if I didn't know I had a landscaper I'd be like well and this guy
00:45:44
works from home like a few days a week like at some point you you might hear like the lawnmower going off or some uh
00:45:52
the blower going off and you see a guy walking around your house you probably should assume you have a landscaper this
00:45:57
guy doesn't even know he has a landscaper and so you brought up a great point which I I didn't even think about
00:46:02
before but you know what if this landscape is just completely lying about everything to be involved in the
00:46:10
story right just to be involved in the story and now again you have this really odd situation because yeah there's some
00:46:16
stuff that's already pointing to the fact that Terry uh the Stepmom is a little fishy you know we're a little
00:46:24
turtley whatever you want to say well I think I think the thing here is okay I didn't even know we had a
00:46:32
landscaper and I know you say that it seems crazy that somebody wouldn't know that they have a landscaper I think the
00:46:37
problem is that when we hear in one sentence somebody say she offered their landscaper that worked
00:46:45
at their home money to kill her husband I think we immediately leap to the conclusion that this guy worked for them
00:46:51
long term like every week yeah right there there is a chance that that possibly this
00:46:58
he may have just come out and gave them a quote on something right right or he may have just came out and
00:47:03
fixed or did one job on one day train some trees and they have that conversation after that job or during
00:47:11
that job about hey my husband walks around with ten thousand dollars you should bust up his kneecaps and kill him
00:47:19
you know so um I I think that that I don't think we should look too much into his this guy's
00:47:26
occupation or how often he worked for I think it's very likely that Kyron you know that that Kane didn't know that
00:47:33
some guy on one time came and worked at their home right but that's the thing about this I I really think there's this
00:47:39
is a big piece of the puzzle and there's so many blurry parts of the story there's so many questions we don't know
00:47:46
and if it's like if they it'd be great if there was just an interview about this with Kane and I think what you're
00:47:52
getting at what you're right to say so is that well why then would this random landscaper just come forward and and
00:47:59
talk about this story well we know that all of these in all of these cases the ones that get all this public attention
00:48:08
and that are on TV and in the newspapers one especially cases involving kids Crazies come out of the woodwork we have
00:48:16
people that say that they're involved in the crime people will come forward and say they
00:48:20
committed the crime people will come forward and say that they saw things that they didn't see or that things
00:48:25
happen that didn't happen so did it happen we don't know now if you believe that it did happen it man it's
00:48:34
not very far for you to go well if she did that then she probably did something or is responsible for chiron's
00:48:41
disappearance it's a huge red flag it's a this red flag is as big as Idaho there's red flags and somehow pythons
00:48:49
and turtles have weaved their way into this tale and then at the end of the day what we have is we still have a missing
00:48:56
little boy seven years old we have this and and it's not so much a search for him anymore of course they're going to
00:49:03
keep searching for him right but this has changed from from looking for a little boy to now we have a criminal
00:49:10
investigation here and these minutes these hours these days are crucial very crucial on top of that we have all this
00:49:18
weird speculation coming out but we also have the step parents and the parents there's a lot of feuding going on when
00:49:26
you think a time that the family would come together we're just adding gasoline to the fire
00:49:32
yeah and this is a really big case this is a huge case and that's why we are excited to be able to do uh part three
00:49:40
and part four on it that will come out next week but we got a lot more stuff to get to we do have some recommended
00:49:47
reading for this week Captain this week we are recommending the last Chicago boss my life with the Chicago Outlaws
00:49:54
motorcycle club by Big Pete James Big Pete reveals how he became the Godfather of the Chicago Outlaws the last Chicago
00:50:03
boss reads like the Sons of Anarchy come to life complete with never before revealed interviews police files
00:50:10
wiretaps recordings and trial transcripts so get on your bike and ride over to our recommended page at
00:50:17
truecrime garage.com check out all of our recommendations there and if you find something that you like use our
00:50:23
Amazon Banner to make those purchases cost you nothing extra and it helps out the garage thank you to everybody for
00:50:29
joining us in the garage this week we will see you right back here next week until then be good be kind and don't
00:50:35
litter [Music] thank you [Music] [Applause]