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Heat. Heat. Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
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for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is the Zach Morris of True Crime. He is the captain. Thank
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you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen, and it's good to see you. If I'm Zach Morris, that makes you
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>> AC Slater, of course, >> or something like that. >> Lisa Turtle. Tonight, we are drinking Dark Force by
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Elevator Brewing Company. Garage Grade four out of five bottle caps. Dark Force is well balanced. It's a fantastic beer,
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lightly hopped with a beautiful copper color. Dark Force was brought to us by these beautiful minds chilling in the
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garage. First up, we have from sunny, beautiful, parts unknown, Margaret. Thank you, Margaret.
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>> # true crime and chill. From Jersey, United Kingdom, we have Mitchell like your jib. And a big thank you to Bront
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in Australia. Bront says, "Please look into the Daniel Morb case from Melbourne, Australia." Cheers, mate.
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>> That is Cheers, mate. That is a dude's name, Bront. >> That's a That's a man name.
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>> That's a man's name, Bront. >> He's probably a cowboy. Call me Captain Bront from now on. Like guilty. Big
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shout out to Lindsay from Carmel, Indiana. We also have Laquell from Bronx, New York. Let's take it to the
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big Buckeye State. >> Oh, io. We have Laura from Cincinnati. Laura says, "You should look into the
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Bricka murders." >> That's on our list, Laura. So, go Bearcats. And a big happy birthday to my
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buddy on Snapchat, Harry GM. >> All right. >> It's a real name. >> It's a real birthday, too. It's my real
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name, bro. >> And last but not least, we have Jacqueline in Seabus, Ohio. Jacqueline
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loved the our Halloween show, episode 59, the one where we reviewed our favorite true crime documentaries.
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>> Yeah, we probably should do a redo sometime. >> Yeah, cuz I've watched like 10
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documentaries since that episode. >> It's a big thing on Netflix now. >> Yeah. So, thank you for everybody for
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pitching in for this week. If you want to buy us around for next week's show, go to true crimegar.com and click on the
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donate button. And if you'd like to follow us on Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter, all that stuff, you can find us
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at True Crime Garage. Everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
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This is True Crime Garage. And this is the case of Alisa Lamb. Get this. This is newly released video
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showing a missing Canadian tourist, a young woman. She seems to be acting in a bizarre way, pushing several buttons on
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the elevator. is all going down in a hotel in downtown LA. Her name is Alisa Lamb. She's 21 years old. She
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disappeared two weeks ago. NBC4's Gordon Tokamato live downtown right now with some new details in this case. Gordon?
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Well, Colleen, we spoke a short time ago with a detective from the LAPD's Elite Robbery Homicide Division. He wants
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everyone to see this surveillance video shot here at the Cecil Hotel. It shows Alisa Lamb getting into one of the
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hotel's elevators, believed to be the last images of her before she disappeared.
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The video captured Alisa Lamb on the morning of February 1st, 8:30 a.m., the day she was supposed to check out of the
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Cecil Hotel. The day before, January 31st, was the last time her family in Canada had heard from her.
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>> This is again totally out of character for her not to be in daily contact with
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her family. >> But then the video takes a strange turn. She punches all of the buttons on the
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control panel, then waits. She steps in and out several times. She even appears to be gesturing in the hallway, although
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it's not clear if someone is there or not. Do you believe she's interacting with another person? I don't know. I
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don't know at this point whether she she is or not. I think it's fair to say that
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that her behavior appears to be a little bit abnormal. But could the behavior have something to do with her
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disappearance? It's now been 2 weeks since anyone has seen or heard from Alisa Lamb, who's known to suffer from
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mild depression and was traveling alone on a trip from her native Canada. LAPD's
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elite robbery homicide section is on the case, placing flyers throughout this newly gentrified downtown LA
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neighborhood, hoping the video will shed some light. >> It is the last images that we have of
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her know of her presence in the hotel. >> 2 and 1/2 minutes into the video, Lamb
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steps out of the elevator one last time. 30 seconds later, the door closes and she's never seen again.
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January 28th, 2013. 21-year-old Alisa Lamb checks into the Cecil Hotel downtown Los Angeles, California. She is
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traveling by herself. She is from British Columbia, Canada. She had been in contact with her family daily during
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her West Coast tour. And on January 31st, the communication stopped. The following day, Alisa Lamb was due to
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check out of the Cecil Hotel. She does not and she is not heard from again. She is last seen on the hotel surveillance
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footage behaving strangely in the elevator. The footage is timestamped 8:31 a.m. February 1st. By now, Captain,
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it's been over 4 years since the very strange death of Alisa at the Cecil Hotel.
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>> Mhm. >> Yesterday, we viewed the video footage, and I'm sure by now most of the world
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has seen the video. Yesterday we gave our thoughts as we watched it here in the garage.
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>> If you haven't seen that footage, it's up on our website now at true crimegar.com.
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>> And we got a lot to get to today, but I really wanted to start off by going through something very interesting. We
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wanted to get to an expert's opinion on this video footage. >> So, this is Dr. Jack Brown. He's an
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expert on body language. This is from his website, Body Language Success and Emotional Intelligence. He has studied
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Alisa's movements in and around the elevator, and he's going to clue us in on what he believes she is feeling and
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what she is doing at the time. >> And this is such a difficult case because there's so much folklore kind of
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surrounding this. >> And so, uh, today, let's just try to focus on on the evidence that we know.
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>> And we'll start off with this expert opinion with Dr. Jack Brown. So at the start of the video when Alisa initially
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enters the elevator he states that she is not in fear in his opinion her wide arm swing and her relaxed and fluid walk
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indicate she is relaxed and thus not feeling urgency. After pushing multiple buttons which she performs in two
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sessions, Alisa Lamb moves to the back left corner of the elevator. He states her arms at her sides and her feet
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positions are neutral, relaxed, and does not indicate fear. Shortly thereafter, she looks quickly out of the elevator.
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She then retreats to the left wall of the elevator and then moves to the left front corner. Her hands adopt the fig
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leaf configuration and her feet are close together. This is consistent with anxiety or lower confidence. beta
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emotional tone. This body language does not by itself indicate fear. >> Can you explain fig leaf configuration?
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>> Yes. I wasn't sure what he meant by that either, so I had to dive into his website a bit. But what that basically
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means is that you're standing upright with your hands in front of your body, fingers interlocked or at least hands
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hands together at your waist. Uh this is a common stance or display of body language. You would see this typically
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like somebody standing at a funeral or religious service, maybe a wedding. Uh, it would be best described as relaxed
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but attentive. >> Well, I'm picking up what he's putting down so far. >> Next, we see Miss Lamb jump out of the
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elevator. Uh, this is the quick two-step maneuver, and he says this has a playful
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quality to it. Okay, so now we're at the point where she is still out of the elevator for a second or two and then
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Miss Lamb's feet spplay wide while her hands are still in a fig leaf nonverbal or close to it stance. This wide stance
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signifies greater confidence and is not consistent with fear. Thus, these two non-verbal signs simultaneously convey a
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level of emotional dissonance. >> Yeah. And this next movement, Jack Brown claims that this is the most important
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movement of the whole series. >> Yeah. She's still out of the elevator and he says for about 16 seconds, Miss
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Lamb displays an elbows out lateral laterally, sorry, with armpit exposed and behind the head hair, which is a
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pining display. This was at least for some time performed bilaterally. The movement as she reaches up to begin this
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extended pin was fluid, slow and deliberate, which is very important. He says this display cluster context is a
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strong and highly reliable indicator of sexual interest. The person of her interest is either present outside of
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the elevator or she is actively thinking about this person. >> Wow, that's pretty that's pretty
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interesting. Now we can see both hands and arms retracting from her extended pining sexual display as Miss Lamb turns
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to go back into the elevator. >> Mhm. >> Miss Lamb steadies herself as she walks
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back into the elevator. This coupled with her slow walk suggests either lightaded symptoms, vertigo, or a
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relative emotional extreme. This elbow forward bilateral hair adjustment behind the ears is a
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nonverbal sign of Miss Lamb dialing up her alpha. This map, map standing for man manipulator, adapter, or pacifier
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indicates that she is trying to be more assertive or courageous. >> This is in distinction to the sexual
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display previously noted. Her elbows are not pointed out laterally, but held closer to her body. Although the
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resolution of the video is low, we can see that Miss Lamb is smiling. Although it may not be a true sincere smile, it
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is at least a fair social smile. >> Yeah, I I don't know if I agree with that. I didn't see a smile even if it
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was a small social smile. >> Yeah, I I agree with you. I don't recall seeing a smile either. Um, at this
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point, her right hand gestures in an illustrator with a fingertip only touching her right chest. This hand
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illustrator suggests a lower sincerity and or a higher level of anxiety in this moment. A series of fairly dramatic
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non-verbal illustrators and maps takes place later in this video. This may be part of the body language of the
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conversation taking place with someone who is out of our view or it may be a sort of rehearsal for an anticipated
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upcoming conversation or interaction. >> Right? >> Or as many have speculated is possibly
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due to narcotics. Although our view and resolution is limited, this does not have the nonverbal signature of fear.
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>> Yeah. And I and again that's something I think it's so quick to say narcotics
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when she does have a history of mental illness and I think it's kind of uh not the most intelligent thing to say oh
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well possibly narcotics when it's like >> she's possibly having a mental breakdown
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and she poss possibly is manic and those would have similar symptoms. So I think
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you know going to narcotics is kind of kind of silly. You you could almost include the the manic thing along with
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the narcotic statement there. >> Well, well, and I think what he's saying as a doctor, he's saying, well, as some
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speculated >> Mhm. >> Well, you're a doctor. Do a little research on the fact that she's bipolar,
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and I just think it's kind of insensitive. >> Yeah, I see what you're saying. I think
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he he's he's drawing these conclusions and observations just strictly off of what he's seeing on the video. Well, no,
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because he just said, as some people speculated, narcotics. >> This movement almost looks as if she's
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playing a game of charades. Then we see Miss Lamb's right foot goes up on her toes. She does this several times. This
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body language pattern indicates a significant level of excitement and optimism. It is also common with joy.
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Mhm. >> At the very end of the video, Alisa's elbow briefly elevates up and out laterally again in a shorter repeat of
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the sexual interest pining non-verbal as previously discussed. Dr. Jack Brown's conclusion is as follows. Elisa Lamb is
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playing a game of hideand seek or something similar in this video. And although at times she displays some
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anxiety, there is no indication of fear. There is definitely an element of play present here. It is of course also
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possible that narcotics are influencing her behavior. Of particular importance is she is putting herself on sexual
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display. While what is seen here may have no connection with her demise if the events in this video occurred just
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before her disappearance. It is it strongly suggests that the person to whom she is attracted may have knowledge
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of, contributed to, or be responsible for her death. Okay. A couple things in there, a couple things that uh Dr. Jack
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Brown is talking about that I find very interesting. Uh first, he's hinting to the the idea that, you know, she's
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trying to be sexual towards somebody or possibly just thinking about somebody sexual. uh if we go with this theory, if
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we buy what he's saying, then it's probably more likely that there was somebody there with her.
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>> Yeah. He's he's basically saying there's a there's a 50/50 shot that that this
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person would either be >> there's always a 50/50 shot. >> Sometimes it's sometimes it's more or
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lower than that. But what he's saying is that that she's either interacting with
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somebody that she is sexually attracted to >> or she is thinking about that person,
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which really doesn't get us anywhere, >> right? And like we said, I mean, the there'd be a lot of uh questions
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answered if we had footage of the lobby. >> Mhm. Yeah. If we had more security footage, if we had footage of the
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hallway, we'd be in good shape. A lot a lot of the listeners were kind of speculating that look if there if there
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was somebody that she was talking to that chances are it would be somebody that would know where the cameras are or
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who would know that the cameras which cameras weren't working implying that it was a hotel guest or not not a hotel
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guest >> hotel employee >> right and so the couple possibilities here is you know she didn't go to LA with a
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boyfriend so it would either Whether it be somebody that she met at the hotel or
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met in LA or somebody that worked at the hotel, uh, you know, as they're moving rooms, did she strike up a conversation
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and then strike up a relationship with somebody that worked at the hotel? That's a possibility. The other thing
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that you kind of read about is that she had this blog and that she actually met somebody through the blog. And so when
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she went to her little West Coast tour >> Mhm. she wasn't going to go to LA, but
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she actually went to LA to meet somebody that she met through her blog. But from
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everything that that we've seen uh prior to her leaving for this trip, it appears
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that she was intending to hit three or four different cities in California. There was one city that was of question,
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but it was not Los Angeles. That seems to me to to be like a predetermined destination. uh maybe even a big part of
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the trip because we know she's been here by at this point for several days, >> right? Which which I get and I I don't
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you don't have to buy that the LA was a second thought to believe that she was meeting somebody from the internet
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basically, >> right? But her having been there for a few days does lead to the question, did
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she meet somebody? Did she buddy up with somebody that worked at the hotel? I mean, there was certainly enough time
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for something like that to transpire. So, in regards to Jack Brown, Dr. Jack Brown's assessment, I do I found it very
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interesting. I there were some things in there that he pointed towards that I wouldn't have known or picked up on. Um,
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the interesting part of course being that if if this video was happening right before she disappeared, then his
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thoughts would be maybe somebody that she knew of had something to do with that. The the thing is though, I don't
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see I I I just don't see her interacting with anybody. It doesn't really appear to me at any point. I just don't get
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that vibe that that she's that she's communicating with somebody in the hallway that we cannot see. I I just
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don't get it. How about you? I don't I I don't see it. >> Yeah. I mean, I think initially it
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doesn't look like she's with anybody. She doesn't turn around to like check to see if somebody's going to enter the the
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elevator with her. Mhm. >> Um there's so much, you know, probably about a minute and a half of motions and
00:19:02
movements where she's clearly by herself, >> right? >> And then there's some weird stuff when
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she steps out of the elevator. Is she talking to somebody out there? Possibly. Is she talking to herself out there?
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>> Possibly. >> Right. >> You know, I don't think that my my gut feeling is that she is not with
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somebody. >> And I'm with you on that. And I tell you why. This is my thought on it. is that
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yes, her her movements outside of the elevator are strange and it she does appear to be kind of talking with her
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hands at points, but the problem is her movements inside of the elevator when she's not talking to anybody are just as
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strange. So that's why I don't really put a whole lot of weight into what she's doing outside of the elevator. I
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kind of chalk it up to the same thing. >> The other thing that Jack Brown talks about a little bit is that he thinks
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that she's playing some kind of game like hideand seek. >> Yeah. And we kind of talked about that
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like maybe playing a game of tag, but you're using the elevator. Uh, a big rumor or a big I guess folklore of this
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case or with Lisa's case is the elevator game which >> Yeah. or ritual I think it's been
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>> it's like an elevator ritual game or something. >> I will not be acting this out on YouTube
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for anybody cuz I don't want to end up in a in another dimension. I have things to do this weekend and basketball.
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Basically, this is like creepy pasta type stuff. >> Yeah. >> It started on a Korean website. You get
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onto an elevator. There's a sequence that you push. You go to different floors >> and uh
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>> and but there's a sequence to it, right? >> And it's not just you push all the
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buttons and then you go up every floor. you there's a sequence and every as you're moving through the different
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floors then eventually a lady gets on with you and then you're going to go to the fifth floor and that's going to take
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you to a different dimension. Now once you go into that different dimension it's just you well you have to start the
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game off a ritual off by yourself. That's part of the whole creepy part. And then yeah this woman that you could
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bump into along the way if you follow the sequence right, she's not supposed to be human. So you don't talk to her
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because she could really mess up your trip. You end up at the final floor. Now you're by yourself and apparently you're
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in that different dimension or different world, right? So now you're in this hotel by yourself and if you don't do
00:21:24
the proper steps to basically fall asleep and then wake up back into this world.
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>> Mhm. >> Uh bad things could happen. So a lot of people think, oh well, this is what
00:21:36
happens. And it's only because we have surveillance footage of her doing some strange stuff on an elevator. Here's the
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problem with all that. She gets in the elevator and at some point pushes everything. She and at no point does she
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push like any odd sequence that I that I'm aware of. >> Well, and and and the thing is you said
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something about falling asleep and waking back up. I I think there's, you know, many different versions of this
00:22:02
possible ritual. Um, as there is with any of these type of, you know, >> stand in the bathroom, close turn off
00:22:09
all the lights and stay in the mirror and yeah, say Bloody Mary and different things blah blah blah can happen if you
00:22:14
do it this way or that way. Uh, the the way I heard it was that you have to once
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you're in this different dimension, you have to try to make your way back to the
00:22:22
same elevator and follow a different sequence to end up back into this world. >> Okay.
00:22:26
>> Okay. So, um, but you're right. You She doesn't go anywhere in the elevator. She
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goes into the elevator, pushes all these buttons, does not end up going anywhere.
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And even even if one thinks that, you know, uh, if I push, okay, I need to go to, let's say I need to go to 2 4 6 and
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8. >> Mhm. >> So, I'll just get in the elevator and push 2 4 6 and 8. Well, the elevator is
00:22:47
going to take you to those in that order. It's not going to go if you need to go 2 6 48, it's not going to take you
00:22:53
in the order that you press them. It's going to take you in the order as it's most convenient. It's like a bus stop.
00:22:58
That's the same way that the elevator works, >> right? Well, I think your analogy is
00:23:02
kind of weird cuz you you went up and the elevator would take you 2, four, six, and then eight. But if it jumps
00:23:08
around like you have to go to the third floor and then you got to go back down to the second floor, you got to hit
00:23:14
three, right up to three and then hit two so you can come back down. >> So that's I think the point you're
00:23:20
trying to make. But if this was what she was trying to play, this is like, >> you know, a very failed attempt. And
00:23:28
this and this is like when your buddy in fifth grade says, you know, hey, it's Bloody Mary time.
00:23:35
>> And so you you both sneak out. So you can you got to go to the bathroom. You got to turn off the lights and to say
00:23:41
Bloody Mary. This is as if she never even turned off the lights. So if she was trying to play
00:23:48
some, you know, elevator ritual game, she >> she messed it up right from the beginning.
00:23:53
>> She wasn't even riding on the elevator. So, I I think that's again just some of
00:23:58
this folklore, which, you know, does make the story more interesting, but I I don't think there's any weight to it.
00:24:04
Well, let's go to February 19th of 2013. So, at approximately 8:30 a.m., this is
00:24:11
after several complaints about water pressure. The water pressure was very low. A lot of people weren't able to
00:24:17
get, you know, proper pressure in their showers. And there was also complaints about the tap water as well. Now, mind
00:24:23
you, some of these complaints were coming in before the morning of February 19th, but anyway, it's around 8:30 or so
00:24:31
that morning that the hotel is going to go and investigate and try to troubleshoot the water problem. Later
00:24:38
that morning, a hotel worker, he's a maintenance man, >> he discovers the body of Alisa Lamb and
00:24:46
quickly calls the fire department. They're called in around 10:00 a.m. that morning. Now, I'm going to describe the
00:24:55
scene and the state of the body when found. >> Okay? >> And soon after that, we will be get
00:25:00
we'll get into the autopsy a bit. So, as the captain often suggests and as I often fail to do, there's that warning
00:25:08
that uh I'm supposed to throw out there. >> If you got your morning coffee with donuts, and if you don't like donuts,
00:25:14
well, then you're a psychopath. Uh but put down your coffee, put down your donuts, and go ahead. We're ready for
00:25:20
you. All right. Okay. So, I'll try to go through this as quickly but succinctly as possible. Um, so the hotel has 600
00:25:29
rooms, right? It has 14 floors. It's listed as 15 stories high. This basically due to the large lobby or
00:25:36
ground level. On top of the building, located near the center of the rooftop, there are four large water supply tanks
00:25:45
that are intended to supply water, feed water to the building. you know, things including showers, drinking water,
00:25:51
basically all of the water supply. So, these are are pretty large tanks. >> Mhm.
00:25:59
>> Each of the tanks at the Cecil Hotel are 1,000galon water tanks. They are all
00:26:05
grouped together on a platform which is about 3 to 3 and 1/2 ft off of the rooftop. Each tank is 8 foot tall,
00:26:13
>> which is pretty tall. >> That's Well, that's top that's to the top of the cylinder. At the top of each,
00:26:19
there is a domed lid or a top with a hatch to access each tank. The tanks are 4 foot wide. The hatch on top of each
00:26:29
tank is a square and it's 16 in wide. 16 in squared. >> All right. So, let me uh pull out this
00:26:36
tape measure. >> You have a You just keep that right next to the computer. >> Well, it is a garage.
00:26:45
>> Oh, yeah. >> So, 16 by 16. It's about the size of a trash can lid. >> Like a fairly large boxed trash can lid.
00:26:52
>> Yeah. And I probably could fit through that. >> Yeah. There's been a lot of speculation
00:26:57
of who or how someone could fit through there. That's >> 16 by 16. >> You and I are both considerably bigger
00:27:04
than Alisa Lamb. >> Yeah. I would just if anybody thinks that that's impossible, I would just
00:27:10
recommend to pull out a tape measure or look at a trash can >> and just ask yourself, could you fit
00:27:16
through that? And I'm a pretty burly guy and I think I could fit through that pretty easily.
00:27:23
>> Now, the maintenance man using a ladder. Now, this ladder is not a fixed to the
00:27:28
tanks. Um, none of the tanks have their own ladder. This is just your pretty standard household ladder. Uh, leaning
00:27:35
up against the tank. He He's going to Well, probably propped up against the tank would be a better description. The
00:27:40
maintenance man found Alisa Lamb's body in the northeasternmost tank, floating face up. At the time of the discovery,
00:27:49
the tank was estimated to be about half to 3/4 full. Authorities worked for about 6 hours to remove the body from
00:27:59
the tank. >> Yeah. And which a lot of the speculation here is that if it took him 6 hours to
00:28:04
remove the body that you know it would take her 6 hours to get in. Not true, right?
00:28:10
>> Because the body is going to swell and I know that's gross. >> Yeah. And it also involves how they
00:28:15
remove the body. So during this time there are several agencies involved. We had the LAPD of course. We had the Los
00:28:22
Angeles Fire Department, the Los Angeles Coroner's Office, as well as an urban search and rescue team. Now, the urban
00:28:30
search and rescue team was brought in for their expertise because they have, you know, we have a body that's probably
00:28:37
a mess by now, and we have to remove it from this large water tank that is hard to access, right?
00:28:44
>> So, the urban search and rescue team helped and assisted the fire department to devise and execute a plan that would
00:28:51
remove the body and preserve the remains and evidence at the same time. A couple
00:28:57
of things regarding the building before we get to the coroner's findings. >> Well, well, let's get right to that
00:29:03
right after this quick beer break. All right. Cheers, mates. I want to go through a couple things regarding the
00:29:32
building before we get to the corner findings. The Cecil Hotel's rooftop is secured, meaning the doors that lead to
00:29:40
the rooftop are equipped with a lock and alarm. The Cecil's standard operating practice is that these doors are to be
00:29:49
locked at all times. Now, that does not mean that they are actually locked at all times, but they are supposed to be.
00:29:57
The hotel rooftop is accessible by using the fire escape. I've looked at several
00:30:03
photos of the rooftop, some taking taken on the day her body was found. In those
00:30:09
pictures, there are clearly at least two fire escape ladders leading to the rooftop.
00:30:14
>> Right. I'm guessing by the layout of the building that at minimum there are three
00:30:20
or more of those ladders with the emphasis on or more. The placement and number of ladders is key when you need
00:30:29
to create a good flow for these for escape procedures. >> Right. So basically what you're saying
00:30:35
is that there she would have access to these there's probably more of these. Oftent times architects will use basic
00:30:42
symmetry for ladder and door placement. Uh this will allow for maximum occupancy
00:30:47
to successfully evacuate the building. U it's a simple way to maintain a good flow of persons fleeing from the
00:30:54
building and to avoid bottlenecking. Uh so I say the number of ladders is more likely more because that many of that
00:31:02
many rooms they got 600 rooms. Three ladders is not a lot. >> It's more likely more.
00:31:07
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's more likely higher. Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. So, so anyways, the point is that
00:31:12
there's a bunch of ladders and should have access to it. >> Correct. Now, let's talk about those
00:31:17
hatches on the dome tops of each water tank, >> the 16x6 in hatches, >> because these things have been argued,
00:31:26
debated, and often misreported. The hatches were not locked. I know many people have tried to say that they were
00:31:33
locked, but I can tell you 100% they were not locked. >> And why is that? because they did not
00:31:39
have locks on them. So following the death of their daughter, Alisa's parents sued the Cecil Hotel.
00:31:46
>> In a press relie pertaining to that lawsuit, it is announced that since the death of Alisa Lamb, the hotel has
00:31:55
increased safety precautions by adding locks to all four of the water tank hatches. Again, with this case, there's
00:32:02
so much speculation. There's so much folklore. A lot of people that covered this case early after the initial
00:32:09
events, like a year after the events, you know, this was not common known knowledge, right?
00:32:15
>> So, a lot of stuff that you start looking up if it was 3 or 4 years ago, they're they're going to say, well,
00:32:21
maybe the hatches were locked >> or maybe they weren't, but we know because of this lawsuit that there was
00:32:27
no locks on there. So, all she would have to do is have access to the rooftop, which she did, and through the
00:32:34
fire escapes, and she would have to have access to a ladder, which was probably up there because of maintenance,
00:32:41
>> right? >> And then she would have to be able to fit through a 16in x 16in hole.
00:32:46
>> Yeah. And well, let's touch on that ladder real quick. >> And and well, let's talk touch on this
00:32:51
little flap. There's a little flap. So when people talk about, you know, would she have the ability to push up this
00:32:59
tank >> so she could jump in? >> She doesn't have to push up. >> You mean lift up the hatch that's on top
00:33:05
of the tank? >> The hatch is not heavy. >> No. And it's actually, you know, I've
00:33:11
heard people speculate that it could weigh 30 or 40 lbs. Um, this thing's 16 by 16 and and fairly old. And it's
00:33:18
actually listed in the autopsy report that the hatches would easily open, >> right? But let me give you this little
00:33:25
analogy. If you take a tire, like tire flipping, crossfitters will flip tires. >> You you might have a 450 lb tire and you
00:33:34
might be able to flip that. Can you deadlift 450 lbs? Probably not. But because of the axis, you're able to flip
00:33:42
the tire. So to open up a 30 to 40 lb hatch, it's not you're not just taking 30 or 40 lbs and lifting it off the
00:33:52
ground. You're just flipping it over, >> right? >> So it'd be a lot less weight. And could
00:33:58
she fit through the hatch? Definitely. >> Absolutely. On to the coroner's findings. Very early in the external
00:34:05
examination, it is quickly noted that wrist scars are absent. Um, this of course being a very obvious sign that
00:34:13
one has attempted suicide at some point before they had died. Alisa had none of these scarring. This pointing to the
00:34:20
fact that she had never attempted that form of suicide before and also backing up what the family had reported to
00:34:28
authorities. So I, you know, I imagine this is recorded very early in the external external examination because
00:34:35
the police had seen they had communication with the family early on in her disappearance.
00:34:40
>> Right. >> The police are informed of the following that Alisa was taking four prescription
00:34:45
medications for depression and bipolar disorder. And as far as the family knew, Alisa had no suicidal thoughts or known
00:34:54
attempts. >> Yeah. And I'm just going to bring up her blog cuz her blog gets brought up a lot
00:34:59
and I'm not super familiar with Tumblr, but I actually went to her blog and took
00:35:04
a look around. Uh she posts a lot of, you know, kind of maybe maybe sad quotes, >> but a lot of the stuff that she's
00:35:12
posting I wouldn't consider sad or depressed. Uh, and some of the the funniest stuff that she posts, uh, and
00:35:19
I'm kind of late to the game, is uh, Parks and Wreck, and she has a lot of these little, uh, scenes from Parks and
00:35:26
Wreck that she posts. Um, which kind, you know, it was definitely sad. You know, anytime we're diving into this
00:35:32
case, you start seeing similarities between you and somebody in the case. Uh, and, you know, to know that I mean,
00:35:39
there's a lot of posts about a lot of different things. Um, some people also said that there was posts about her
00:35:46
talking about trying to get off her medication. I I looked around. I could not find those. If I would be interested
00:35:52
to look at those post, I couldn't find those. It was mostly what I found was pictures and quotes and um a lot of
00:36:00
pretty, you know, kind of artistic things, right? But as far as like, you know, going which a lot of the artistic
00:36:06
stuff I connected with. But then those parks and recck stuff, it it made the case even sadder just because, you know,
00:36:12
you have this connection with this person that, oh, this person liked some of the stuff that I did and she was
00:36:18
struggling with some of the the issues that I've dealt with. Uh so you get that connection base. But I I don't you know,
00:36:25
so when they said there's no suicidal attempts that they know of >> that they know of. Yeah. And that
00:36:31
doesn't mean that it couldn't have been a suicide attempt, >> right? You can't watch somebody 24/7,
00:36:36
>> right? >> Um, now the autops the autopsy lists Alisa as weighing 121 lbs and she is 5'6
00:36:45
in tall. Now I I simply mentioned that just so everyone can do a mental comparison taking into account her size
00:36:51
in regards to the size of those tanks and the hatches. >> Right. During the autopsy, fingernail,
00:36:57
hair, and sexual assault evidence kits were collected. >> Here is a summary of the coroner's
00:37:04
findings. Alisa Lamb died as a result of drowning. They saw no sign of trauma. Toxicology studies did not show drug or
00:37:13
alcohol intoxication. checking for her prescribed meds in her system. It basically states that
00:37:22
toxicology studies were performed to check for these but the quantitation in the blood was not performed due to to a
00:37:31
limited limited sample. >> Right? >> So very little blood left in the body. >> Well, and the one of the problems with
00:37:38
this whole examination is going to be that she was submersed in water for weeks.
00:37:44
>> Correct. The police investigation showed no signs of foul play. No one could find
00:37:49
evidence to support intent to harm oneself. Manner of death is considered an accident.
00:37:56
>> All right. So, they consider this an accidental drowning. >> Yeah. Some some here's some more
00:38:01
descriptive things here. The body was in a state of moderate decomposition with greening that was found. This is typical
00:38:10
of seeing what we would see having a body that would sit in water for this length of time. Okay.
00:38:15
>> There is marbling on parts of the legs. The head is bloated with bulging eyes.
00:38:22
Parts of the skin. >> You really should have gave like another warning >> to to >> this is like a long coffee break for
00:38:29
people. >> Yeah, I know you. But I'm just saying you should have you know that's a lot to
00:38:32
take in. parts of the skin exhibit pulling and there there was marked wrinkling of the palms, fingers, soles,
00:38:40
and feet and toes. There have been many reports that portions of the body displayed degloving. This is simply a
00:38:49
false rumor uh and probably to add more gore to the mystery, but it didn't happen.
00:38:54
>> Right. And the coroner also found that the hyoid bone and the linex were both
00:39:00
intact. >> Yes. this pointing towards that she wasn't strangled before being thrown
00:39:05
into the tank. >> It always baffles me cuz people that have this, you know, you you'll hear
00:39:10
somebody talking about this case and they'll start saying, "Well, it was impossible that she would have been able
00:39:16
to get up there. It was 8 ft in the air and then this giant lid that you have to
00:39:21
lift was so heavy it would be impossible." And those same people then also try to make you believe that she
00:39:29
was murdered, >> right? So, it's impossible for this little lady to get up there and get into
00:39:35
these tanks, but it's more likely that a guy would be able to kill her and carry
00:39:42
her up there and then push her in. That that always baffled me why people's head go that way.
00:39:50
>> Here's what I can say, and we'll we'll go through this a little bit later, but
00:39:53
I can honestly say I I could have gotten to that tank if I wanted to. If for some
00:39:58
reason I wanted to get in that tank, I could do it. It would >> prove it. >> Well, but what I can tell you is if I
00:40:06
wanted to carry a person up there and I not even a person of her size, if you took a person half her size, right,
00:40:13
>> would be very difficult for me to do. >> Mhm. Yeah. But I mean, you also you probably should also do some more
00:40:21
push-ups. >> Hey, I do cardio. Hit the gym twice a week. uh in the stomach they found scant
00:40:28
red fluid. Um now portions of tablets or capsules could not be discerned in the stomach. Meaning basically they didn't
00:40:35
find they're looking for evidence of the medication that she was taking at the time. They did not find that in the
00:40:42
stomach. >> Right >> now the body when it was found it was not clothed. Uh that seems to be of no
00:40:49
mystery to people who have really looked into this case. But another item of big
00:40:52
importance in my opinion is Alisa's clothing. So this is another topic that has been debated and disagreed on. They
00:41:00
did find her clothes. They they found them. Absolutely 100%. >> Where did they find these clothes at,
00:41:06
though? >> They found them in the tank with her. So these are the exact same clothes that
00:41:11
she was last seen wearing in the elevator footage. The clothes were found in the tank with her as as well as her
00:41:18
sandals were in there as well. >> Right. They didn't find the clothes on her body,
00:41:22
>> correct? The body was nude. The clothing was in the tank with her, >> which to me, I mean, just initially
00:41:29
hearing that, I go towards foul play. >> Yeah, I mean, I can see that. >> Because if you're going to jump in a
00:41:36
tank for whatever reason, why would you go in with your clothes? Um, >> I mean, I could see jumping into the
00:41:45
tank with your clothes on, but why would you take them off and then also bring them with you?
00:41:50
>> Well, here's my opinion, and this is going to be pretty dark, so I apologize in advance.
00:41:56
>> Another warning. Put put down your damn donut. >> Regardless of how we'll get into how we
00:42:01
think she got into the tank, but regardless of how she got into the tank, my guess is that she was probably
00:42:07
clothed when she went into the tank. My thought is because of the height and the
00:42:12
distance between her height in the the top of this tank, if the tank was more full, then unfortunately
00:42:20
if she was awake and alive when she was thrown in there, she was probably in that tank for a decent amount of time
00:42:26
before she expired, >> right? >> And what you would have to do is tread water and work your way up to the top
00:42:33
where you could breathe air, >> right? Therefore, sping wet clothes are going to weigh her down as she gets
00:42:40
tired inside the tank. So, you would you would want to shed those clothes to try
00:42:45
to maintain your endurance. >> Mhm. That that makes a lot of sense. >> So, inside and this is a little bit of a
00:42:54
mystery here to me, but the other items that they found in the tank were her watch and a hotel key card. It's listed
00:43:01
that these items were found amongst her clothing. So, I'm guessing maybe these items were in the pockets of the
00:43:08
clothing, but I can't absolutely say for certain, >> right? But if you wash your clothes, you
00:43:13
know, then normally in the washer when you're taking the clothes from the washer to the dryer, you'll find, you
00:43:19
know, a lighter or your your your wallet if you left it in your pants pocket. >> Now, in the end, the clothing was kept
00:43:25
by the coroner's office. The watch and the key card were given to the Los Angeles Police Department and they were
00:43:31
given to them the night that she was brought in, the night that she was found, probably so they could go back
00:43:37
there and do some type of investigation. Um, the clothing contained a sandlike particulate.
00:43:44
>> Okay. >> Okay. And now this is where a lot of people point out that this is evidence
00:43:49
that she might have been kept elsewhere before she was placed in the tank. That this is debris that got on her somehow.
00:43:56
and then she was placed in the tank. I'm going to offer my opinion here and I'm going to back it up a little bit. What I
00:44:02
think that those items are, they're basically described as whitish little flexcks of probably like mineral or or
00:44:09
metal. Um, okay. So, I think that those those that debris or the sandlike particullet came
00:44:18
from within the tank that they they collected on the clothing while the clothing was in the tank. And I think
00:44:24
here's my kind of evidence of that. >> Well, I mean it's logical. Yes, there's some logic there.
00:44:29
>> Yes. And these are very old tanks. And one thing that anybody could do at their
00:44:33
house, these tanks basically operate the same way as we have these little water tanks in our homes as well. They're
00:44:40
called toilets. U basically the back of your toilet operates the same way. It brings in fresh water. It stores it for
00:44:47
a period of time, then it supplies it to something else. Right? anybody. If you take the lid off the back of your toilet
00:44:53
and you you stick your hand down in there and you move your hand, you Okay. >> Well, but you will see things that don't
00:44:59
appear to be inside there, but you will see them all of a sudden float in there.
00:45:03
These are just things that over time erode or or create these little flexcks or debris in that inside that water
00:45:11
tank. >> Right. I just I just had this funny image of you playing around in your
00:45:16
toilet. >> Yes. I did that for hours last night to back up that my >> little theory
00:45:20
>> and I and we put it on YouTube. >> No. No. >> Um, so that is the coroner's findings.
00:45:28
All of this pointing toward a an accidental death. They don't believe that she tried to kill herself. They
00:45:35
also don't find any evidence of foul play or anybody else being involved in this accident.
00:45:39
>> Right. And it seems like all the evidence points to their findings that this was an accidental drowning.
00:45:47
>> Yeah. And this was not some kind of suicide or anything like that. And they say accidental uh accidental death with
00:45:54
mental illness. >> Correct. >> You know, which makes some sense cuz there's some history there. Uh but you
00:46:00
were talking earlier and I think I cut you off about the latter. >> Yeah. So, so you know, looking at the
00:46:06
body as far as evidence, it all points towards that accidental death, but then people would argue, well, how did she
00:46:11
get in the tank? >> Right. Because this is eight feet tall. >> Yeah. You know, we've look, it's
00:46:17
definitive in my mind that if I can fit through 16 inch by 16 inch because I measured it out with my t tape measure,
00:46:26
>> then the problem becomes how does this, you know, small individual get 8 ft up
00:46:33
in the air to get to the latch? >> Mhm. Well, I pointed out her height as well as her weight to show and anybody
00:46:41
that's seen pictures of her, she she's a thin, slender person. She appears to be
00:46:46
in good physical health. Um, and I I don't think she would have that hard of a time because the argument is, well,
00:46:54
we've seen pictures of the fire firemen standing around on the rooftop and those
00:46:58
tanks look gigantic compared to them, right? >> Well, we need to keep in mind that keep
00:47:03
keep in mind the layout of that rooftop. So basically these are yes they're 8 foot tall tanks which doesn't seem
00:47:10
gigantic. However, they are on a platform which is about three and a half feet above the top of the rooftop
00:47:16
>> right so you're looking at 11 ft >> and then on top of that that platform they're also standing on blocks which
00:47:22
are probably a foot tall. >> Okay so 12 ft. >> We're now at 12t tall. That's pretty
00:47:27
tall. That's pretty tough. >> You're going to need a ladder. >> The issue here though is that platform
00:47:32
that's 3 and 1/2 ft. Well, there's stairs that go up to that platform. So, now you've you've already conquered that
00:47:38
three and a half feet, >> right? >> So, now you're just dealing with about nine foot or so. Well, we talked about
00:47:43
there being >> Well, you could have stopped me from adding the first time. >> We talked about the the ladder
00:47:49
situation. Now, if you look at pictures from the day that she was found, the ladder that is used by the fire
00:47:55
department >> is not it does not appear to be a fire department issued ladder. This is This
00:48:01
ladder looks very old. It almost looks like a wood ladder. I would argue that the fire department is not using a wood
00:48:08
ladder, especially the Los Angeles Fire Department. >> And this makes some sense because, you
00:48:14
know, and you'd probably know this better than I would, you know, with your background in security administration,
00:48:22
maintenance workers, if they have to access something often, then they will leave a ladder up there.
00:48:28
>> You're exactly right. That's exactly what you would do in any of these building situations because a ladder can
00:48:33
be cumbersome to try to move up and down through an elevator or bring up some stairs, right?
00:48:38
>> And you know, so you have you have ladders that you actually place throughout the building. So you're not
00:48:43
going 10 stories to hunt a ladder. You're just going a story or two because you know you have one every so often,
00:48:49
>> right? And any maintenance that you'd be doing on the rooftop, you'd probably
00:48:52
just leave a ladder on the rooftop. Now, on that rooftop as well, remember we talked about that platform that these
00:48:58
tanks are sitting on? Well, underneath that platform, it's open. So, you could store a ladder right underneath that
00:49:05
platform and keep it there and it not be exposed to the elements, >> right? And then the big question here is
00:49:11
people would say, "Well, if she used a ladder, then they would have noticed the ladder." Well, here's the issue is a
00:49:19
maintenance worker could have noticed the ladder >> Mhm. >> and just moved it. like why is this out
00:49:24
of place >> and thought that another worker left it there, >> right? I'm going what I'm going to do is
00:49:29
put this ladder away because it's out of place and it's not supposed to be here and weeks went by and probably it you
00:49:37
know I I couldn't tell you what I ate last week. >> Okay, >> you know what I mean? So it's like if I
00:49:42
did I move a ladder last week? I don't know. >> Right. The other thing though too is if
00:49:47
the maintenance staff works anything like the the security staff at this hotel, there's a good chance that that
00:49:53
ladder just sat there that that a maintenance person put it up there and never removed it and it was there. She
00:49:59
found it already in place. >> Right. And then the other problem becomes you have a lawsuit against you.
00:50:04
>> Mhm. >> So then how quick is somebody going to come out and say, "No, I actually found
00:50:09
the ladder against the the tank one day and I moved it." >> Yeah. you know that I because because
00:50:15
the latches weren't locked because there was access to the roof >> because there was access to a ladder.
00:50:22
>> We can assume >> then it makes them more liable. >> Yeah. Well, and I'll tell you what,
00:50:28
let's take the ladder out of the situation. Let's say the ladder is not up there for Alisa to find. There's
00:50:33
still another way she could get into those tanks. There is a structure on that rooftop that is right next to the
00:50:40
water tanks. >> Okay. Now, inside this little structure, I'm going to call it a little building.
00:50:45
Um, inside that, that's a typical structure you would see on high-rise buildings. Inside that, you're going to
00:50:51
have workings. There are actually workings that go from those water tanks into that building. That's how close
00:50:56
they are. >> Right >> now, you're also going to have things like pulleys and part of the working
00:51:00
system of the elevators in there as well. >> So, on this little structure, it's actually the rooftop of that is higher
00:51:08
than the water tanks. >> Okay? And there is a ladder that is always there. It's a metal ladder that
00:51:14
is connected to that structure. So at any point someone could climb up there and actually the water tank that she was
00:51:22
found in >> the hatch, the way that the hatch is positioned, it's the closest hatch to
00:51:28
the top of that rooftop. So meaning she could have climbed up there to a ladder that's always there and she could have
00:51:34
jumped down onto the water tank rather than climbing up to the top of the water >> which is which has way more logic to it.
00:51:41
>> Yes. >> You know what I mean? It's like you know >> it would be about a 3 and 1/2 maybe 4ft
00:51:46
drop. >> So we know that she has access to the rooftop, right? Then she's up there.
00:51:51
She's exploring around. Whether or not there's a ladder up there doesn't matter at this point at all because if she
00:51:57
finds this attached ladder, she climbs that, >> goes looking around, for whatever
00:52:03
reason, opens up one of these hatches >> Mhm. >> and maybe falls in >> or maybe goes in there for some purpose.
00:52:09
There's also a chance that a maintenance man left that hatch completely open as well and that she by looking down upon
00:52:16
it in whatever state she was in sees this opening and thinks it's something that it actually is not
00:52:23
>> right >> and decides to enter it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Totally totally possible there I think. And now to play devil's
00:52:30
advocate. Yes. Now somebody But if it's foul play, you have access to the rooftop and now
00:52:37
you have to carry the you still have to carry this individual >> that's 120 lbs, you know, like a
00:52:43
fireman's carry up a ladder >> and then walk her over. >> Um both are likely both are possible. It's
00:52:52
just more likely that, you know, an individual, you know, any almost any capable individual could climb a ladder
00:53:01
and walk over, you know, to these these towers. >> Yeah. But the signs of trauma on her
00:53:08
body, there are none, >> right? >> And all the this ladder, the structure, the water tank, all that stuff would
00:53:14
create obstacles for this person. So, if she's alive and does not want to go where this person's directing her or
00:53:21
forcing her to go, there would be a bunch of signs of trauma on her body along the way. So, what I'm getting at
00:53:29
here, Captain, is that the only way that she went into that tank without her deciding to go in herself, if somebody
00:53:36
placed her in there alive, that means that somehow they coaxed her willingly to join them on top of this water tank
00:53:44
without, you know what I mean? And then to force her into that 16x6 hatch, right? That too would create trauma. You
00:53:52
would see you would see gashes or bangs on the on the arms and probably the legs
00:53:57
as well. >> Yeah. So, I mean, are we ready for final thoughts? >> Yeah, I think I think that we are.
00:54:05
>> You know, ladies first. >> Lisa Turtle goes first. >> Lisa Turtle goes first. So, so in my in
00:54:12
my opinion, um, unfortunately, I think that we have a girl, we have a woman, excuse me, that uh that was a very brave
00:54:22
person. I think she was dealing with a lot of dark issues and that being the the disorder the there were things out
00:54:29
of her control. And I say brave because I think she had a lot of bad days, Captain. And I think for someone to say,
00:54:36
you know what, I'm going to I'm going to be outgoing anyway. I'm gonna go out into society and try to do my thing. I'm
00:54:42
gonna go on this trip because I want to. I'm not gonna let this thing drag me down, right?
00:54:46
>> I'm gonna live my life no matter what. >> And I So I I think we have a very brave
00:54:51
person that unfortunately went to La La Land uh and I mean Los Angeles. >> And she she finds herself in a in a
00:55:00
traumatic episode of this disorder. And she >> a manic state, >> a manic state. and she doesn't really
00:55:07
fully know what's going on and she ends up in the tank on her own. I don't think
00:55:13
this was a suicide. I don't think that there was foul play involved. I think it was exactly the way the investigators
00:55:19
got it. I think it's an accidental death brought on somehow by this disorder. >> Right. And in those findings then it it
00:55:27
you know becomes a it's a mystery. It's a mysterious death but it's technically not true crime then.
00:55:33
>> Right. Well, it it technically not technically not, but any any agency uh that I know of when there is an
00:55:41
accidental death, it's actually investigated as a homicide until they can prove otherwise,
00:55:46
>> right? And you think in this case that they proved otherwise? >> I think they did. Yeah, exactly.
00:55:51
>> All right. So, uh, Zach Moore's time, uh, time out. Remember when he used to do the timeout?
00:55:56
>> I'm waiting for you to pull out the giant cell phone. >> It's It's in my back pocket. Is that a
00:56:02
giant cell phone or you just happy to see me? Um, I think it's the same thing. Uh, we had a listener the other day and
00:56:10
I'm so glad that somebody, it was through Instagram. If you're not following us on Instagram, um, we try to
00:56:16
be pretty active and, uh, I posted something that the show was up. Courtney, I believe her name was.
00:56:22
Courtney, I don't know what her handle is. Maybe that's not respectful to toss out her handle, but anyways, she said,
00:56:29
uh, check out one of my favorite podcasts, one of the shows that got me into podcast, uh, this American Life.
00:56:36
They had an episode called My Damn Mind. >> Yeah. Which was a rerun from about a
00:56:42
year ago, but it was it was their newest episode. And what it was was two stories. I only listened to the first
00:56:48
one, but it was of this guy, this individual that was dealing with bipolar. >> Okay. and uh he was having a manic
00:56:55
episode and he he ends up getting shot by the police and but what he does is he actually remembers the the episode. So
00:57:04
when he comes to and after they figure out what's going on, um >> he kind of walks you through this manic
00:57:11
episode and in his mind he was like going to he had to be like a double or like impersonator for President Obama
00:57:21
and he was on this mission and he ended up like jumping three stories off of his
00:57:28
apartment. >> Wow. Uh and and they proven that he he did this because all his doors were locked and it would
00:57:36
have been impossible. So he did this and then he also wrecked his car and then he
00:57:40
so he did all these crazy things because he thought he was on a mission. >> Right.
00:57:45
>> Right. And he even like I think attacked a police officer. Anyways, it's a fascinating fascinating episode. And if
00:57:53
you're having a hard time g, you know, getting your head around the fact that somebody could be in this altered state
00:58:00
and possibly cause themsself to die, go go listen to this episode. It's very interesting. Like I said, it's this
00:58:07
American life. The episode is my damn mind. Um, it's it was very fascinating and very eye opening and my brain was
00:58:14
kind of going to this conclusion anyways. Like I think they did their due diligence. I think there's a lot of
00:58:21
folklore with this and a lot of speculation with this case. And I think the video is super creepy. And I think
00:58:28
at the end of the day, it's super creepy because this is the last known footage of this beautiful girl's life.
00:58:34
>> And it doesn't make any sense, >> right? And it's a tragedy. That's what it is
00:58:39
>> very much. >> And the thing is is like I said yesterday, this is very important. It's
00:58:44
very important that we start talking about this. Mhm. >> It's very important that we talk about
00:58:49
mental health. It's very important to be open and honest. I mean, to a certain degree, you don't have to give out every
00:58:55
detail. >> Um, but by other people knowing what you're going through and what you're on,
00:59:02
they can help you. Yeah. >> You know, and there's and everybody has these rough days and and everybody
00:59:09
whether you have a mental illness or not, you have these rough days just like we said yesterday. And but it's
00:59:14
important to be more open and honest. So tragedies like this do not happen. And somebody that I feel has a lot, you
00:59:22
know, that had a lot to offer. And look, I mean, social media is, you know, all kind of [ __ ] anyways,
00:59:28
>> but I I love people that use social media in positive ways, post positive things, or use it as an outlet to, you
00:59:37
know, get rid of some of their bad feelings or negative feelings. And like I said, I mean, and it might sound super
00:59:44
lame to some people, but you know, it's like I love Seinfeld. You love Seinfeld.
00:59:49
>> Love it. >> And we connect and we talk a lot about the Seinfeld references. We love Larry
00:59:56
David, right? Uh >> and Parks and Wreck is something I just got into and I'm just finishing the
01:00:03
final, you know, season now. >> Welcome to the party. >> Welcome to the party. Way late. Um, and
01:00:10
you see posts like that and you just can identify with this individual and she was just so young and just starting and
01:00:17
who knows what she would have done, you know, >> and and that's and at the end of the
01:00:22
day, it's very tragic and I think um if we could start wrapping our head around some of these mental health issues, we
01:00:30
can start helping each other live fuller, happier lives. >> You're absolutely right. Unfortunately,
01:00:37
I really think that this whole tragedy would not have happened had she been traveling with somebody else. Now, I
01:00:43
want to be clear here. I'm not faulting her. That's not her fault. She was just doing a vacation like anybody would want
01:00:49
to. I don't fault her parents or family for this either. She's a grown woman. And this is a woman that was trying to
01:00:56
be brave and trying to be outgoing and do her thing. uh where where I do find a little fault and I'm not going to say I
01:01:03
don't wouldn't say legally uh would be with the hotel um and more more so with the employees of this hotel. I think
01:01:12
it's a moral thing that they that they've screwed up here. Uh I find fault with them because they they clearly
01:01:18
these employees clearly have no problem working at a place that does not really care about security. We we see this
01:01:26
terrible security system. I imagine that there's very little checks that are going on at that time and also the
01:01:33
maintenance staff as well. I think that there were things there and I only say this as somebody that's worked in these
01:01:39
downtown buildings for so long is that you I believe you have it's not just a place to show up and collect a paycheck
01:01:45
and they don't pay these people great amounts of money, >> but it's not just a place to show up and
01:01:50
collect your check. >> Well, I mean, let me just >> you have you I think you have a moral
01:01:54
obligation that that accidents like this should not happen. And I I do believe she placed herself there, but I think
01:01:59
that there could have been standard operating procedures that should have been uh should have been executed so
01:02:07
that this type of accident would not have happened because if if we're right the way that this went down, a child
01:02:15
could have done the same thing, >> right? >> You know, and and a child wouldn't have
01:02:19
known any better. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I And I think to go on your rant, it's it but it's about pride,
01:02:25
you know. Uh people wear these goofy red hats and I and I'm not going to get all
01:02:29
political here. Uh because this is not a political show and never will be a political show, period. Um but these
01:02:36
people wear these funny little hats that say make America great again. Everybody
01:02:40
can start doing this >> by one champion uh awarenesses that need to be championed like mental health.
01:02:47
Also, whatever your job is, I don't care if you work at Starbucks, if you're if you work at McDonald's, whether you're a
01:02:53
podcaster, whatever it is you do, >> Mhm. >> take pride and ownership in your work
01:02:58
because that's a reflection of you. And this girl should not have, you know, they did they know that she had this uh
01:03:06
these struggles that she was dealing with? No. >> But she had access to the rooftop. Then
01:03:11
she has had easy access to get on top of these water towers. then she had easy access to get inside the water towers.
01:03:18
And those are all these steps that could have been prevented if people took pride
01:03:22
in their work and took pride in themselves. And I'm sure that there are some individuals at the Hotel Cecil that
01:03:28
did, >> right? >> And and that's the problem when there's 600 rooms. You can't, you know, you and
01:03:33
then even managers, you can't you can't hold yourself completely responsible for
01:03:37
every little thing. But um you know just you know want you want to make the world
01:03:42
a lot better of a place start taking I was going to go into Michael Jackson song right there.
01:03:48
>> Take a look at yourself and make >> Well no but you're saying you can start this by by starting in your own backyard
01:03:54
on your own street at your workplace. And if everybody does this then we're we're golden baby.
01:04:00
>> Yeah. Golden. Hey and you heard it first from Lisa Turtle. No, but our hearts and our thoughts and
01:04:08
prayers go out to her family. They've they've gone through something very tough. We wish this would have never
01:04:13
happened. U should never have happened. Um but it it ultimately is just a tragic
01:04:18
accident at the end of the day. >> Yeah. So, uh rest in peace Alisa Lamb and uh I I will probably go back to her
01:04:25
blog um today and and take a gander again. But uh we got a recommended reading for the week.
01:04:32
>> We do. And because uh this story has ties to the Hotel Cecil, it only seemed fitting to do so. This is a true crime
01:04:39
classic, The Nightstalker by Philip Carlo. Uh decades after Richard Ramirez killed people, 13 people and paralyzed
01:04:48
Los Angeles, Ramire's name is still synonymous with fear, torture, and sadistic murder. Philip Carlos classic
01:04:54
true crime book, The Nightstalker, is based on years of research and many interviews with the killer himself. this
01:05:01
all revealing that the Nightstalker and his crimes are even more horrifying than
01:05:05
anyone could have imagined. So, pick up the Nightstalker by going to our website, true crimegar.com. We have our
01:05:11
recommended page there. Check everything out that's on there. And we have our Amazon banner. You can pick this up
01:05:16
through Amazon. >> Yeah. And if you haven't been to the website lately, uh I just updated it.
01:05:21
>> It's revamped. >> It's revamped. It looks a little more modern. >> It looks great.
01:05:25
>> Our website kind of looked a little uh early '9s band website. But now it's a
01:05:31
little more modern. And you can get anything through the Amazon banner. Like if you can hear that, that's my tape
01:05:37
measure. >> And uh I got that through Amazon.com. And they give us a little kickback at no
01:05:43
cost to you. Yeah. And for everybody that's been uh checking out my music at captainfatands.com.
01:05:49
I appreciate it. Much love to you. Much love to everybody that's uh sharing on social media the show and telling
01:05:56
friends. And look, I I got a message the other day where this guy said, "I feel a
01:06:02
little silly sending you a message, right? Saying, uh, your show helped me helps me get through my workday." That's
01:06:08
why we're doing it, right? >> That's why we're doing it. That's That's We use podcast to get through our day
01:06:13
and now we're just giving some love back to you and you guys been giving us love,
01:06:16
so we're now giving you more love. This is a love fest. >> It is. And I'm sitting here with Captain
01:06:21
Fat Hands himself. The hands are getting fatter. They're growing. They're growing
01:06:26
in front of me. Uh yeah. Well, my my point was that I just wanted to say thank you to everybody that's sharing
01:06:32
and telling people about the show and thank you to Nick for all his hard work uh and putting, you know, helping me put
01:06:38
out two shows a week for the last, you know, since January, I think. >> Well, thank you, Captain. All right, we
01:06:44
will see everybody back here in the garage next week. Until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.