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Hello and happy happy Halloween. Welcome wherever you are, whatever you are doing. Thanks for listening. I'm your
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host Nick and with me as always is the ghost with the most, but don't say his name three times. Ladies and gentlemen,
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the captain. I won't. I won't do it. Can't do it. Won't do two shows in one night, babe.
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It's good to see you and it's good to be seen. Thanks so much for telling a friend.
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Make sure you tell all your friends. Run around screaming at your neighbors. Give
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me some candy. Listen to True Crime Garage. Tonight at the Halloween party, we are
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drinking Oktoberfest by Brooklyn Brewing from Brooklyn, New York. That's the garage grade. How about we
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give it four and a half bottle caps out of five. This rocking Brooklyn Oktoberfest was brought to us by some of
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our ghastly garage nasties. First we have Noel in Grove City, Ohio. Hmm, that sounds like a wonderful little
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community. We also have Lauren in Spokane, Washington and there's Elaine in Vestal, New York. Elaine says, "Nice
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jib." Nice jib back to you. Also, don't know if we should call them our nasties.
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I don't know how nice that is. It's a Halloween party. It's They're ghouls and ghosts.
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You got a nasty jib. That's right. Also, we want to say hi to Stephanie in Indianapolis, Indiana, who
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says, "Keep up the good work, guys." Next, we have Gwenna in Long Beach, California.
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Also, Jason in New York, New York. He says he wants to buy us a keg, and he also says that his favorite thing is
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heading to Upstate New York with his dog and listening to True Crime Garage at night because it scares the hell out of
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him. I want to know more about this keg that he's going to buy. I wonder what it costs to ship a keg.
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And last, but certainly not least, we have a very happy Halloween to The Acid Cherry. Apparently, that is one of
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our listeners' code name. So, thank you, Acid Cherry. Sorry, The Acid Cherry. And
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if you want to buy us a round for next week's show, go to truecrimegarage.com and click on the donate button. Yeah,
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and while you're there, might as well sign up on the mailing list while you're at truecrimegarage.com.
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And so, you may have guessed it, tonight is our big Halloween party, and we are going to take a little break from the
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Halloween action. I know you're probably going to hear this a couple days afterwards, but we couldn't get it out
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on that night. We're traditionalists. We had to have the Halloween party in the garage on Halloween night. So, but
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tonight, we're also going to talk about our favorite true crime documentaries of
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all time. So, we're going to get to that right after this. Oh, good one. So, grab a chair, grab a
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beer, and let's talk some true crime. Maybe grab two. Maybe grab some candy. When it says take one, take five. Say
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Help yourself. Thank you so much. You've earned it. Thank you. Let's get in the garage.
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This is True Crime Garage. And this is the Halloween show. He was guilty of capital murder. This
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doesn't change anything. Our son was still murdered. Our son And he was tortured to death by three
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murdering bastards on a ditch bike. He was 8 years old. Damn system stinks. It's a great tragedy that your kids was
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killed, but it's also another great tragedy that American citizens, anybody today's public can just be picked up for
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a crime they didn't commit. Everybody in the town and in the courtroom and on the
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jury are all blinded by their fantasies about satanic cults. There it is, your corn.
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You're right, of course. I can't imagine. Kurt Cobain. Kurt Cobain. Kurt Cobain.
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He's dead. Hiring me is not like hiring an attorney. It's not to protect you. My
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job is to find the truth. All kinds of red flags started popping up. She starts telling us these things
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that just didn't add up. Save the American icon, Tom. That was suspicious to me. And this
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woman's husband had just been found dead, and there didn't seem to be any sadness whatsoever.
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If I'm guilty, it means that I am the ultimate figure to fear. Because I'm not the obvious one.
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The girl known as Foxy Knoxy. Everyone is talking about it. As long as I remember,
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I wanted to be someone else. We had no idea what kind of person we were getting.
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He had changed so much. There was just something wrong about it. About 15 buildings here have been
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abandoned for quite some time. They did a lot of searching for the kids here. Specifically for Jennifer and I believe
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Holly Ann. Growing up on Staten Island, Barbara and I had often heard the legend of Cropsey.
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He was supposed to have a hook and an axe. Knife about this big. Cropsy was the escaped mental patient who lived in
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the tunnels beneath the old abandoned Willowbrook mental institution who would come out late at night and snatch
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children off the street. 10-year-old John Gosch had been delivering papers in this affluent
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neighborhood of West Des Moines. That was the last time he was seen. The parents believe the boy is alive and has
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been kidnapped. Johnny, we love you. We're waiting for you to come home. We're doing everything in our
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power to get you back. Take care, babe. Thousands of people have been searching for the boy, but nothing
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All right. This is some Halloween party we're having here tonight, Captain. Yeah, can
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I get anybody a drink? Maybe some candy? Uh the Captain made a uh scary hairy buffalo. I tell you, I had a I had a sip
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of that a few minutes ago and I fell right over. there were going to be more people in
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the garage, but there's just me and you. It It's always just me and you. Well, and you know what? I was surprised
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that I sent a few invites out to some celebrities and uh I'm really surprised not to see them here. You know, Johnny
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Depp, I I talked to him and he said, you know, I'd love to make it out to the garage for your Halloween party, but I'm
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busy with the Hollywood Vampires on my tour. he kind of talk like he has a a little bit of a British accent?
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Well, I couldn't tell if he was can't make it tonight. I couldn't tell if he was just putting me off, you know,
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that if he was just like kind of trying to be nice, but not really being nice. Well, Rachel McAdams, the invitation is
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always in the mail. I also sent a Facebook invite to your good friend Anderson Cooper, but in
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traditional Anderson-like fashion, he didn't even bother to respond. I can't I mean, come on.
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he said "F off." That's what he replied. Well, Anderson Cooper, maybe next year.
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Okay, so what we you decided to do since we're we talk about a lot of creepy cases and it kind of gets us down
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a little bit. And these are some creepy cases, but what we're going to be talking about today in the garage is our
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top 10 true crime documentary list. Yes, and originally we agreed that we would each come up with our own list and we
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would mesh them together and we would, you know, come up with an ultimate garage list, but of course we could not
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agree on any of these things. So, we're just going to go with our different lists.
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we agreed on some of them. up pretty close, I think. Yeah, but then there there was some that
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were not on my list because I never seen that I haven't seen them yet and there's
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some that you haven't seen or some that you didn't remember while you're making the list. And uh so,
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it's not fair to make this complete list. So, we're going to have your list, my list and and a bunch of
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honorable mentions. Yeah, so if you are listening at work, we want you to encourage you to join in the Halloween
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party with us. Put a little vodka or a little whiskey in your coffee or something and get
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tiny bit. Yeah, and stop working. Just get like a pad of paper and a pen and write down all these true crime
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documentaries. how about you pull a George Costanza and get underneath your desk?
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And just relax a little bit. Yeah, and pull out your little alarm clock. Enjoy yourself.
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bed. Sit back and relax. All right, without further ado, how about we do our top 10 list? All right, but let's start
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with uh some honorable mentions. Mhm. So, this is this is a This is a great show
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cuz one, through our social media, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, all that stuff, if we missed a documentary,
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please let us know about it. Mhm. Uh mean, obviously we can't list all of them. We're just kind of going over some
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of our favorites. But please let us know about some one that we might have missed because I
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mean, this is how sometimes we get um involved into case. As we watch a documentary or through a recommendation,
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uh somebody says check out this documentary on Netflix or whatever and then we do a two-parter like last week.
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This is what happened with the uh Johnny Gosch case. If you haven't listened to part one and part two, uh just stop this
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one. We'll finish this one and then go back and make sure you listen to both of those. Those are great
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episodes, I think. Do you have any honorable mentions for us, Captain? Yeah, hold on. Somewhere Where are my
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notes? Uh the first one which we you hear in the trailer, this one I find to be pretty
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interesting, The Jinx. Yes, of course. That was a widely popular one that HBO covered not too long ago regarding uh
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Robert Durst and uh did he kill them all? You know, is what it left us all asking and Yeah,
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this is this is where the documentaries are going to be I believe in the future going to play a bigger part in the
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actual case itself. I mean, most of the time like and you'll see this throughout the list.
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A lot of times these documentarians get involved and because of that and because
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of the hype and because of the public pressure, you actually get some results that you want to got before and in in
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this in this documentary famously, he's he's wired for sound. Well, we got to try not to uh Yeah, we
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don't want to give away the We got to watch out for the spoiler. The the Well, I'm the king of the spoilers. Uh
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Anyways, it's an interesting documentary and if you haven't checked that out, I recommend that.
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the gist of it is this. I mean, we have this guy who's he's he's raised in a wealthy family and he he is somewhat
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successful himself. Uh their family's involved in some kind of real estate in New York. And but throughout his life,
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people around him keep dying. And you know, you got to figure out the jinx. That's why it's
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called the jinx. Is this some kind of curse? Is this a curse that he carries with him or the people around him are
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cursed? Or does he have a hand in this? So, check out the jinx. That's a good honorable mention. We also have Cocaine
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Cowboys. Yeah, I have I've only seen clips of Cocaine Cowboys, but I've heard good things.
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I saw the first one. I I think this came out in 2006. This was about the Miami drug wars from the '70s and the '80s.
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And I believe that they did a follow-up Cocaine Cowboys 2, but I've not seen that one. And the one that I have not
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watched yet and it's been on my list to watch for a long time is The Staircase. I have heard a lot of things. I've heard
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a lot of good things. But to give it credibility, I've seen it and it's it's a really good one. There's the the
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situation is this. So, there's this there's this gentleman. Well, you can decide if he's a gentleman
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or not. He's a retired military. And I I do want to point out we're going to talk about each one of these
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documentaries a little briefly. That way you can decide which ones you want to watch.
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But however, we are going to go off of memory because obviously we didn't have time to sit down and watch 10 or 12
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documentaries just to tell you all about them. So, this gentleman, he was in a retired military. I believe he may have
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served in Vietnam and he became an author. He wrote something you know, wrote about some of his war stories.
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Uh-huh. And he had a wife that that dies accidental death on the stairway, but it's they're trying to figure out was
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this an accidental death or was this a murder? So, Right. Um Yeah, I mean I've just heard a lot of good things and it's
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that like I said, it's been on my radar to check out for a while. that was an eight-parter and I want to
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say that may have been uh like a Sundance Film Festival some kind of award winner. That's That's the problem
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is sometimes these documentaries are so long that it's like people go have Listeners will say, "Hey, have you
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checked this out yet?" I go, "No." They go, "Well, it's only eight parts." It's like, "Well, but we got to work on a
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show for next week." Yeah. Yeah. But for the for everybody out there, a lot of these are easy to kind of binge through,
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you know? Um I think I watched The Staircase, even though it's eight parts, I think I watched it in two nights. Uh
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We also got um Into the Abyss and Central Park Five. Yeah, so Central Park Five is about an old case from uh
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Central Park, New York. Um and that was, you know, years ago there was something
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with the teenagers. Um and there was They were kind of rioting um loosely rioting and terrorizing citizens in
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Central Park. Mhm. And a a woman uh I believe she was jogging, uh and she was attacked or or raped by this group of
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teenagers. But it's it's been speculated over the years, are they innocent or did
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they actually commit this crime? So, that's That's a good one. And Into the Abyss as well is a good one, and that is
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about a um uh the aftereffects of of a person having committed a crime and uh the the
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prison sentence and and life in prison afterward. All right, let's get into our top 10
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list. Starting with number one. No, of course that's not how you do these things. Starting with number 10. Mhm.
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What's your number 10? Number 10, I have Cropsey. Have you seen Cropsey? Yes, I No, I haven't seen it all. I've seen
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parts of it. Uh because I feel like I missed something. Like I started it, then I
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started again, but I think I missed about 15 20 minutes. Okay, but did Cropsey make See, here's the interesting
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thing here, Captain, is we've not fully reviewed each other's list. So, we may have some on on your top 10 and mine as
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well. So, as we go through these, you you mention if if that made your list as well. Did Cropsey make it somewhere in
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your top 10? made my list a little higher. Um What would you give it? Well, I'm not going to give that away
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right now. We'll We'll go your top 10, my top 10. Leave us in suspense. I love it. Yeah, so anyways, it got uh 90%
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uh on Rotten Tomatoes, 62% from the audience. So, kind of a drop off there. So, 90% from the critics, 62 from the
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audience. Yeah, so Critics loved it. The half the audience loved it. I loved it. I was in
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that half that loved it. Uh this was This was a story about uh well, we have Joshua Zeman who grew up in Staten
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Island. He is the uh documentarian that uh He did Cropsey and he's done a couple
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others. Mhm. Um he grew up on Staten Island and he had always heard this story about Cropsey. And well, what was
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Cropsey? Well, Cropsey was the last name or the name given to a maniac who had escaped from a
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uh mental hospital and he was out snatching kids off the street and killing them. And Josh grows up and he
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he learns that, you know, actually when he was a child or when he was a teenager, there was a girl taken from
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his neighborhood. So, this it as he grows up and he realizes that there was a uh man named Andre Rand uh
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who had actually been on trial for killing a couple of kids. And what Josh wanted to figure out was
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kind of the old chicken or the egg scenario. You know, what came first? Was it Was it the legend of Cropsey that
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came first or was it uh Andre Rand who who was the, you know, the real-life monster? Yeah, and I think a lot of
00:19:02
times with uh documentaries, for me at least, it's you like the idea of the story,
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maybe not so much, uh you know, the the filming of it, the soundtrack and all those stuff they play a part. Mhm. But I
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think it's really more the idea or the case itself if you whether or not you like the documentary.
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Yeah, and it's neat too when there's somebody that's from the area can tell you stuff about the area that you would
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not have known that that some other guy or girl couldn't have just walked in there
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and and presented it in that way. So check out Cropsy. What was number 10 for you, Captain?
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Uh Capturing the Friedmans. Okay. This was done in 2003 and Rotten Tomatoes rating of uh 97% and
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89%. It's rated R. The running time is uh 107 minutes. And what's fascinating to me is I I believe that this
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documentary's done by one of the older sons. Uh it's basically uh this documentary about this the uh the
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dad and the youngest son get charged with these heinous crimes and then it's like going through the whole scenario.
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It's fascinating. What I find about it is it's it's very unnerving. It's like once you see this documentary, you can't
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unsee it. Okay. Um but I just remember I you know, was studying jazz in college and I had
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this guy that uh would just come in to every rehearsal just going on some rant about whatever. And he was ranting about
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this documentary just watched and I just remember like writing it on my arm. Like
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I need to find this documentary. So it it it was fascinating. If you haven't seen it, Capturing the Friedmans is a
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definite uh one that I think you should check out. not and I'm going to go ahead and jot
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that down on my arm to make sure that I watch that. Uh number nine for me, I have The Imposter.
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Yeah, this is a this is really good uh film, good documentary. This is shot really well. Mhm. Uh it's very
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cinematic. They actually reenact a lot of the events using the actual characters from real life.
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So, they'll take scenes that happened that don't they don't have footage for and they reenact them using the actual
00:21:25
people. And this has a lot of twists and turns in it. What just, you know, you think you're heading down one path and
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they take you down another way and then they take you another direction. So, uh this was uh The Imposter. This was the
00:21:37
story of Nicholas Barclay. He was Barclay. He was a uh a young boy that was has gone missing
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um and they've not found him, but then 3 years later they think that they found him in Spain. Yeah. Um and this this
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person comes forward that's about 3 years older and they start talking to him and he's reunited with the family
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and I'll just let you I'll let the the the listeners check it out from there. We
00:22:03
don't want to go too far. it was It was done uh 2012. It's been making a a big buzz because it's on
00:22:10
Netflix now. You can check it out on Netflix. 95% on Rotten Tomatoes, 78 from the
00:22:16
from the audience. Rated R and the running time is 95 minutes. I'll tell you what, it's probably one of the most
00:22:24
recommended ones that I as far as people recommending uh true crime documentaries
00:22:28
to me. Like every couple months somebody's like, "Oh, have you seen The Imposter? Oh, you have to see The
00:22:34
Imposter." and Yeah, yeah. I I think it's definitely it's uh it's definitely worth checking out if
00:22:40
you haven't done so already. Number nine for me is Amanda Knox, which was done in
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2016. Had a big buzz because it was a Netflix I believe it was a Netflix original. I'm
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not Don't quote me on that. Well, it's on Netflix. Yeah, it's on Netflix now. Uh no uh
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rating on this one. Runtime is 92 minutes. Uh 89% and 76% on Rotten Tomatoes. I like this.
00:23:07
Visually, it's just beautiful. Tons of scenes and this is a case that has been recommended to us a
00:23:15
bunch. Over Amanda Knox, Amanda Knox. Is a case that I'm not really familiar with.
00:23:20
This is one of those cases, you know, Anderson Cooper. Nancy Grace, a lot of people when this
00:23:27
case blew up when it did. Tons of news coverage. Those to me cases like that, Amanda Knox um
00:23:38
a million other ones, OJ. When they become this like pop culture nonsense to me, I normally start tuning
00:23:47
out. So, I didn't know much about the case. So, for me it was it was a great documentary to watch. I have a really
00:23:53
good understanding of the case now, I think. And also when people suggest these cases after watching this document
00:24:00
documentary, I don't feel like I have much to bring to the conversation. Do you find that you that you end up having
00:24:08
a better experience when you have no idea about the case and then you sit down and watch a documentary or do you
00:24:14
find that it's a better experience to be to know of a case and be excited that there's finally a documentary about it?
00:24:20
Uh I think for me it's just not knowing anything. And then when you go in you know, then you start learning about what
00:24:27
you will learn through time and time again. Uh there's always holes in the story. And look, they're putting
00:24:34
together a hour and a half documentary on this on some kind of crime. Just like our
00:24:40
shows, people will constantly say to us, "Oh, you missed this part or you missed
00:24:43
this thing." Well, we're putting together a hour and hour show on a case. I mean, we are going to miss some
00:24:50
things. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes there's a lot more to cover than just 1 hour. And we do have to skip over some some of the
00:24:56
smaller details. Yeah, so number nine for me is The Man Who Knocks. I think it's you know, it visually they did a
00:25:03
great job and like I said, I have a better clear understanding of the case. So number eight for me would be
00:25:11
um the case of JonBenét Ramsey. This is the three-part mini series that was done
00:25:16
by CBS, I believe. Uh this was done in 2016. This was just recently and very recently
00:25:25
and not only within like the last what 6 weeks or 2 months maybe? Yeah. And this was kind of funny because you
00:25:32
and I had recommended this to each other at almost simultaneously. You know, I said, oh there's some new JonBenét stuff
00:25:38
coming out and you said, oh you got to watch you got to watch this one that and neither of us had watched it before
00:25:44
recommending it to the other. And as far as cases go, I mean, if somebody asked me to do my top five cases or even top
00:25:50
three cases of all time, cases that I've looked into over and over and over and over again,
00:25:56
this would be one. JonBenét Ramsey case has always really uh you know, baffled me. You have some
00:26:04
really interesting characters in this mini series. You have Henry Lee, which is has some connections
00:26:10
with the OJ case. Yeah, Henry Lee is the he's been involved in a lot of the forensics as far as physical evidence
00:26:19
goes and and how a crime could take place and the movements of the people and why there's blood here and not blood
00:26:25
there. Sure, if you've had to have seen Henry Lee before. Yeah, I think the thing
00:26:30
about this mini series or documentary, I mean, 20% on Rotten Tomatoes, 16% with the audience, so it's very low. I don't
00:26:39
know if that's because they just don't believe the theory that they came up with, but I thought what was bold was
00:26:45
this it's this panel of people, you know, experts, panel of experts. They come up with this theory, which is not
00:26:51
original theory, but they add a lot of details to it and then they make some pretty
00:26:58
damning claims. So much so that there now lawsuits. If you have not seen this, I would recommend this for sure. Yeah,
00:27:05
it didn't make my list, but I loved it and it didn't it you know, sometimes when you watch something on TV and it's
00:27:11
a three-parter like such as this, you kind of forget that it's actually a documentary, you know. Well, that's my
00:27:17
thing is I kept on thinking well, it was a it was a mini-series. It was a TV show
00:27:22
technically, a TV series. Should it make the list, but it is by definition a true crime documentary.
00:27:29
I think you picked a good one. Uh number eight for me was the very famous ever popular making a murderer.
00:27:37
Yes, which I still have not seen. Which is the Steven Avery case and and I'm sure there's people sitting in their
00:27:41
garage at home booing you right now, but you don't need you don't need to boo the
00:27:45
captain because you know, like we said, he's seen some that I've not. Uh this one I liked this one a lot.
00:27:52
and I've also listened to a lot of podcasts about the case. And and and here's the thing for me. This I think it
00:27:58
was uh cinematically, it was well done. Um it it looked good. Uh the music was great, you know, the way that they put
00:28:06
everything together. It's kind of a collage, you know, uh and I I found it extremely entertaining.
00:28:14
I kind of begrudgingly liked it because I disagree with uh with their theory. Um and it it made
00:28:21
me put off watching it for quite some time, but I did enjoy watching this one because I thought it was so well done.
00:28:27
Right. Uh it's a little skewed in my opinion, but um uh This is still on my list to get to. I
00:28:33
mean I mean we started a true crime podcast. I don't know if you know about this. Uh true
00:28:39
crime garage. And the biggest true crime podcast probably of all time is Serial.
00:28:44
And it took me uh at least a year or so to dive into Serial, which which was bad for me. I mean, it took
00:28:53
weeks off my life of researching the case over and over. So, that's probably one of the reasons why I've stayed away
00:28:59
from that documentary, but I probably should watch it. Making a Murderer on Rotten Tomatoes it got 98% by the
00:29:05
critics and 95% by the audience. Of course, this came out in 2015 and they are making a second
00:29:12
go around of this. Yeah, second season of Making a Murderer. Again, yeah, this is technically
00:29:17
technically classified as a a TV show and not a documentary, but as we all know in the true crime world, it's a
00:29:24
documentary. Yeah, we're very loose about the rules here in the garage. All right, let's get
00:29:29
back to the list right after this quick beer break. All right, we're back. Cheers, everybody.
00:29:34
Cheers. How about another Oktoberfest, Captain? Because you know what? These things expire
00:29:39
as soon as as soon as it turns November. So, you have to drink them all up before
00:29:43
the end of October. It's the last Don't think that's how it works. That's how it
00:29:47
works. We have like 3 hours until my Cadillac turns into a pumpkin. All right. All right, so what number are we
00:29:53
on? We're num- number seven. We're at seven, sir. Go I'll start with mine. Mine was The Imposter. So, I had it a
00:29:59
little higher than yours. Um Again, we don't really need to talk about we already talked about it. So,
00:30:04
that's my number seven. Your number seven, sir, is Me, I had an old one. This is a oldie
00:30:09
but a goodie. It's called The Iceman Tapes: Confessions of a Mafia Hitman. And on Rotten Tomatoes it got 84% by the
00:30:17
audience. This one came out like in the Don't quote me on this. I want to say early 90s. Uh but this one I saw on
00:30:25
cable when I was younger and and it was like very eye-opening to me because this
00:30:30
guy was a true psychopathic killer in every sense of the word. It's a it's about Richard Kuklinski. Mhm. Um say
00:30:38
that fast. fast after all those Oktoberfest. Yeah, let's let's not say it again.
00:30:43
Uh but he was a worked for the mafia as a hitman and he offed Sometimes he just offed people that he didn't like. Uh but
00:30:50
it it was it was crazy to me because when I was younger I always thought that, you know, you had serial killers
00:30:55
and I understood that there was a mafia out there, but I saw this when I was probably
00:30:59
11 or 12 years old and I was like I was like, "Oh my goodness, there's this guy that that's his job. He's He's He just
00:31:06
has no problem killing people. Like lots of people." turned his hobby into a living. Maybe
00:31:11
that's what it was. Could be. He's a I mean, he's That's why he's the Iceman. He is cold. He's a
00:31:16
cold-blooded killer. Yeah, I've seen this before and I've actually listened to a bunch of
00:31:20
interviews. I believe they had some stuff on Coast to Coast on this back in my days of traveling around and
00:31:26
listening to Coast to Coast at night. I believe they talked about the Iceman before, but I believe I've seen this. I
00:31:31
didn't have it on my list, but again, like you said, it's this weird thing where it's like sometimes I mean, it is
00:31:37
a crime. It is a true crime. I It didn't register in my brain, but it it's definitely I definitely recommend
00:31:45
it as well. So, let's get to my number six, another one that we don't have to talk about cuz
00:31:50
we already did, Cropsey. I you know, like I said, to me it was just the idea of you know,
00:31:59
a small town boy hears some rumors, is there some truth to it, and dives into it.
00:32:05
A little bit of armchair detective type stuff. I just like the whole premise of the whole thing. And if you have not
00:32:11
seen Cropsey, it is on Netflix. So, go check out Netflix with the Cropsey. All right, your number six is The Devil
00:32:20
and the Death Penalty. This is a This is an interesting one. This is about Roy Norris and Lawrence Bittaker.
00:32:29
They were known as the Toolbox Killers. They were serial killers in the '70s. These were some of the worst of the
00:32:36
worst. they call them tool-toolbox killers? Well, because they they would travel
00:32:39
around in a van and they would abduct these teenage girls and they would torture them using things in from their
00:32:47
toolbox. Okay, I shouldn't have asked you that. You should not have asked because it
00:32:51
Yeah, you're you're stuck thinking about that for a while. But this beer is tasting great now. Um but the other part
00:32:56
of this, you know, it it's just as much about the two killers as the kind of the
00:33:02
failed death penalty in California. You know, these guys have been on death row for so long. I think Now, forgive me
00:33:09
because it's been a few years since I've watched it. I'm not certain. I think Norris might have passed away due to
00:33:15
like natural causes or something like that while he was But I know Bittaker is still on death row to this day and he
00:33:21
was like convicted and these crimes took place in the '70s. Uh and all that tax money to keep him alive and all that tax
00:33:28
money to all the um the legal processes they have to go to through the appeals and everything.
00:33:36
And I think that when this, you know, the the guy that created this documentary, he grew up somewhat where
00:33:41
in the area and he had returned to his hometown and he kind of like started asking people about, "Oh, do you
00:33:48
remember Lawrence Bittaker?" And he just assumed he would have been executed by then. Right.
00:33:53
And it it blew his top to figure out that they've not killed the guy yet. The state The state that I live in that
00:33:58
could that condemned him to death has not killed him yet. And we're talking about I think at the time when this came
00:34:05
out, there was like 7 or 800 people in California, in the state of California, still on death row for for
00:34:11
crimes they've committed a long time ago. Yeah. Uh I have not seen this documentary, so
00:34:18
it being so high on your list is something I definitely want to check out. lesser known one.
00:34:23
All right. So, number five for me. Uh I think that's where we're at. This beer is getting in the way of me keeping
00:34:30
track. Uh I have Who Took Johnny, which we covered the John Gosch case uh last week, a two-parter. I was
00:34:37
surprised to find out that this was uh done in 2013. It was 2013? Yeah, I mean, it's it's
00:34:44
seen a kind of a resurgent with it being on Netflix, but unless that's a typo, uh this you know, basically this kind of
00:34:52
set around for 3 years, but now it's getting some buzz. Like I said, we did a two-parter on that. It doesn't have a
00:34:59
Rotten Tomato meter, like overall I believe it's just the audience. That's 84%. This is pretty short. This is uh 76
00:35:08
minutes. So, you can you can kind of dive into this. Uh the reason why I like this one so much
00:35:15
is I It's kind of Here's what's tough. Did I enjoy watching it? I don't know. I And
00:35:23
then now I know that sounds ridiculous. But it's like I immediately watched it, immediately started diving into the
00:35:30
rabbit hole. Oh, see. I see what So, it's like did I love the documentary? I don't know. Like the
00:35:35
story didn't end for you when the documentary was over. You went immediately into Sherlock Holmes mode
00:35:40
and like Googling things and look Trolling the internet. had a 3-hour long conversation about
00:35:45
this case last night on the phone. It's like it just keeps going and going and and there's there's so much that the
00:35:52
documentary actually misses. Uh we weird things. Again, the documentary 76 minutes. We did a
00:35:59
two-parter on it. There's a lot of weird stuff to talk about, and even in our two-parter we missed some weird little
00:36:06
things that happened. Whether they're true or not, I don't know, but we we missed bringing those up. Yeah. You
00:36:11
know, but uh I think it's such a fascinating case, and if you haven't heard of the case, it's a great
00:36:18
way to dive into it. I have a little higher on my list. It did make my list as well. But one of my
00:36:23
favorite things to do, I don't watch a lot of TV or a lot of movies. But but one of my favorite oddly enough, even
00:36:30
though it's one of my favorite things to do, I enjoy watching things with other people because I like to get their
00:36:35
perspective afterwards. I like to have the little conversations afterwards. And so I asked somebody to watch this
00:36:41
documentary with me who took Johnny and I was a little worried because when you when you sit down and you're interested
00:36:47
in something and you know you're excited to watch it. You want the other person to have a pleasurable experience as
00:36:53
well. And you know me Oh, not me. I want to watch something and I want somebody to be bored out of their mind. Well, get
00:37:00
up and leave but leave me the popcorn, right? Go go get me a sandwich while you're bored.
00:37:06
That's all I'm That's all That's That's what you want out of life. No, no. I'm just messing up. But what I
00:37:11
want is the other person to be entertained Yeah, of course. I was a little worried because you know
00:37:16
me, big true crime dork. I knew I was going to be entertained. And I asked this person to watch it with me.
00:37:23
And I True crime dork. At some point like halfway through I'm the kind of person I
00:37:26
can get up from a movie or from a documentary as long as I keep an ear out and can hear what's going on. I don't
00:37:32
mind walking away from the screen for a second. I went to the fridge to grab an Oktoberfest and in the process I stepped
00:37:40
in front of the the screen. Yeah. How dare I? I the other person was so into it. I got I I kind of got a little got a
00:37:47
little yell there. They're like, "Hey, hey, come on, dork. Move out of the way. Yeah. They should have hit you.
00:37:54
No, no. It's uh it's a it's a good film. I definitely uh check that out. What is
00:37:59
your number five? My number five is Dear Zachary, a letter to a son about his father. Uh this came out in 2008. I
00:38:08
watched it on vacation uh a year or so ago. What a nice thing to watch on vacation.
00:38:15
True crime the the sun went down and I decided, "Hey, what a good night to pop some popcorn and and have a couple beers
00:38:22
and true crime it up. Uh it was 2008. True crime and chill, I think they call that. Running time is about I think it's
00:38:28
95 minutes, and this got a critic rating on Rotten Tomatoes of 94% and an audience rating of 96%. So, the audience
00:38:38
was was even better than the critics here. Now, this one is a I'm not going to lie to you, Captain.
00:38:45
It's very entertaining, extremely entertaining, but it's also it's probably the saddest one on my list. Uh
00:38:52
this one I can't remember if I choked up, I can't remember if there was a tear rolling down the cheek, yeah, uh but
00:38:57
there was definitely the old lump in the throat was getting me a few times. And this is about a guy that grew up uh with
00:39:06
with another guy, and they were friends, okay? Good friends. The one guy goes on to be involved in in
00:39:12
Hollywood or in film somehow. Yeah. So, when he's growing up, he's always he's always behind the camera, you know, and
00:39:19
he's asking his friends to be, you know, act out a skit for us, do something funny. So, he's
00:39:24
Dawson's Creek. Yeah, he's always he's always interviewing or filming his friends doing things, and one of his
00:39:29
friends grows up to he's unfortunately becomes a murder victim. And they have a lot of old footage of this of this guy,
00:39:37
I don't have his name in front of me, but he has a son, uh and his name is Zachary, and so
00:39:43
as an adult, he wanted the young son to know his father. Yeah. And so, he started piecing together
00:39:50
uh things that he had filmed about his father, as well as documenting the crime itself. Um and the the thing that one,
00:40:00
it's I mean, it's interesting, uh not I wouldn't say as much from a true crime perspective, uh just from a documentary
00:40:07
perspective. It's it's extremely entertaining, and the victim in this crime is he
00:40:14
I I he could have been a I think he could have been a movie star. He had a great personality. He He was very
00:40:19
charming. He was naturally funny. Like the captain. Yeah, he was good He was just great on camera. So, I recommend
00:40:25
Dear Zachary, a letter to a son about his father. All right, let's get to number four. Let's start with your
00:40:31
number four. My number four was one that you had already mentioned, Who Took Johnny.
00:40:37
All right, so you had it one one spot higher than me. Yep. Uh so, definitely check that out. Again, like we said,
00:40:42
it's on that list. somewhat of a general consensus there. You have it five five I have it four.
00:40:47
Yeah, and I think, you know, as people are yelling and screaming, "Oh my god, that shouldn't be 10." Right? Mhm. The
00:40:53
thing is is the list I mean, if I woke up tomorrow, the list would change tomorrow.
00:40:58
The list is going to change 6 months from now. I mean, as far as like it's always like when you just look back on
00:41:04
it. And so, when when I was going over my list, I kept on thinking like what was the anticipation?
00:41:10
Yeah. What did I feel right afterwards? And that's kind of hard to remember. Uh again, I have it so high
00:41:17
and I couldn't even tell you if I liked the documentary. I just dove into the case so hard.
00:41:22
Well, for me, my top three were pretty set in stone. Like I It was easy for me to write down my top three. And after
00:41:28
that, I knew of seven others that I that I loved. Right. But But they're like you said, they're
00:41:34
almost interchangeable with one another. If I, you know, a week from now, they could You could flip my my number 10
00:41:40
Cropsey with number four, Who Took Johnny. was actually surprised by my number my top three. I surprised myself.
00:41:47
leaving us in suspense in suspense I'm at number four for me is uh Finding Emma Fillipou, which another case that we
00:41:54
covered. Mhm. Uh this is a case that I recommended. Uh we get listener you know, listeners will uh recommend
00:42:01
cases to us through social media and the website and stuff like that. You can also give us a five-star rating on
00:42:07
iTunes and and leave us a little a recommended case for us there. But there are times that, you know,
00:42:14
you'll present a case to me. Hey, I I know of this case. It's really interesting. Let's talk about it. Uh
00:42:19
this is one that I actually um brought to the table. Mhm. Um and and it was actually on a list, like this
00:42:29
master list of one of my friends said, "Hey, here are some interesting cases." And then I also found it again. It was
00:42:35
on like uh mysterious disappearance cases. Again, if you haven't listened to our episodes
00:42:41
on that, go do so. But, uh documentary, I don't know if this is a documentary or not. It's by Fifth
00:42:47
Estate. I watched it on YouTube. That's the only way I know how to watch it. Um it's like 45 minutes. It's pretty It's
00:42:55
almost like a Dateline special. Um I couldn't find any uh raining uh rankings or ratings on it. Mhm. So, um but
00:43:05
again, it was one of those things as I'm watching it, quickly wanted to dive in to the case. And uh it's one of
00:43:14
you know, one of a case that still fascinates me today. And And one of those things where if I see anything
00:43:21
posted about this case, I immediately start, you know, clicking forward and trying to check out. Still baffled by
00:43:27
it. So, that's my number four. Uh number three. Well, start with mine? Sure. Okay, I have West of Memphis. This
00:43:36
was done in 2012. Um 96% on Rotten Tomatoes, 87. That's the audience. Uh it's rated R. Um runtime is about
00:43:48
hour and uh or 146 minutes. Now, this is a film about uh the West Memphis 3. And to me, it's part two of the famous
00:44:00
documentaries, Mhm. the the Paradise Lost. To me, it's just the fourth installment.
00:44:05
Got you. Um but is it is done very differently. Uh, Damien Echols and and some of the other members of the
00:44:14
West Memphis 3 are actually involved in the production of this and then they're producers of the case. So, there is
00:44:20
definitely an argument that the opinion of this is uh askewed. But, like I said, um
00:44:27
that I was reading some reviews on it and one of the guys said, "It's you know, wasn't watching a film.
00:44:34
It was kind of just more like watching a TV show." Hm. Um, that was his opinion.
00:44:39
I could see that. I thought it was good. I thought it was done nice. But, again there's some skew viewpoints, you know,
00:44:47
but it's just such a fascinating case to me that to me it's the it's the part four, you know, after the
00:44:55
trilogy. It did it did not make my list uh and not because it wasn't good. I mean, it it's just you can't you
00:45:02
wouldn't allow me to squeeze uh 13 documentaries into a top 10 list. tell the viewers what happened, right?
00:45:08
And tell the viewers what happened, right? So, we we we decided that we we knew about a month back. This was your
00:45:15
idea. You said, "Hey, let's give the listeners two episodes and Hal- for Halloween."
00:45:21
Mhm. So, we had cases lined up and then we started talking about this who took, you know, Johnny Gosch case because of
00:45:29
the documentary. And then we kind of moved some things around. So, we were supposed to we were
00:45:33
going to release it uh the Halloween special on the Monday, but we decided well, we'll do John Gosch one John
00:45:40
right? Right. And then we had a a producer friend of ours say, uh "You should have
00:45:45
did your Halloween episode on on on Monday and then did part two on Wednesday." I thought one, that's a cruel joke cuz
00:45:53
you get you all you're waiting for a part two and then you see that we put out a show and it's not part two.
00:45:59
The other thing about it, too, is anytime that we're diving into a case, you got to really stay focused on that
00:46:04
case. And a lot of times, a lot of my friends will tell me, you you're you're documentary ass, is what
00:46:10
they say, because they'll say, "Check out this." And I say, "I can't." Yeah. And it's And it's not because I didn't
00:46:16
want to My My buddy told me to check out Who Took Johnny for weeks. Mhm. But I couldn't. We're on cases. We're on to
00:46:24
the next case. And sometimes, if you watch this documentary and you go down a rabbit hole,
00:46:29
it's going to affect the episode for next week. So, um Anyways, I'm losing my train of thought
00:46:35
for this. went you went you went way off topic. and going. were talking about what had happened. We
00:46:40
talked to We set this up about a month ago that we were going to come up with a top 10 list for
00:46:44
Right. Okay, yeah. And so, the thing was, we said we're going to do a top 10 true crime documentary list. Top 10.
00:46:51
Yeah. So, then Nick tells me uh texts me over the weekend or whatever, "I sent you my documentary list." Yeah.
00:46:58
Top 15. Top 15? I'm like, said top 10. Top 10." I couldn't stop. I started writing the
00:47:04
list and I was like, "Oh, this one. This one." Cuz when you get to 10 and you're
00:47:08
like, "Oh, that's the final part of the list." But I got like three other things, you know, four or five other
00:47:14
things. Well, we get asked a lot what documentaries we like. We get asked a lot what our opinions of those
00:47:20
documentaries. So, we just thought it's be kind of a fun thing to do. And then, we wouldn't have to dive into a case and
00:47:26
uh you know, for Halloween and stuff. Give us a little break from the the goriness that we have to deal with.
00:47:34
Well, and my quick take on the West of Memphis documentary was I Like I said, it didn't make my top 10
00:47:39
list, but I liked it a lot. And you're exactly right, the fourth installment. That's the That's the best way to
00:47:45
describe it. I don't know that we really need to tell a whole lot of people about
00:47:49
this one. I assume it's been watched by the masses. Um but for me, my first takeaway is it's kind of a
00:47:57
more updated bigger budgeted version of the Paradise Lost trilogy. doesn't have the same charm, I don't
00:48:04
think. So, what's your number three? My number three came out in 2014 and it's called Killer Legends. Have you heard of
00:48:12
this one? Uh this is done by the same guy that did Cropsey. Yeah, Cropsey, yeah.
00:48:17
Yeah, I'm a big fan of uh Joshua Zeman and uh this came out in 2014, Killer Legends. It's uh 85 minutes long.
00:48:25
Audience score only 50%, which is very surprising to me. You said Zeman? Yeah. Yeah, I think he needs to drop a little
00:48:32
bit of money into the beer fund. Cuz we're promoting all his movies on our show. Well,
00:48:38
Just drop a little money into the beer fund. Well, I actually I spoke with him about
00:48:42
uh a couple of his documentaries and one that he has coming out. Uh he has a a show coming out called The Killing
00:48:48
Season, which will be on A&E and it starts uh November 12th. Uh but I wanted to get his take on some of his
00:48:54
documentaries, specifically, you know, Cropsey and Killer Legends. And and Killer Legends
00:48:59
uh I filled out this list before I knew I was going to talk to him. Uh and after
00:49:03
I saw my list, I thought, well, you know, I I should I should ask him about uh some of his his documentaries. And
00:49:09
he, you know, this one is great, Captain, because I'll tell you why. Mhm. You grow up and you hear about all these
00:49:16
different urban legends. You know, there's the we spoke about when we covered the uh Phantom Killer, you know,
00:49:21
the the man with the hook, you know, the hook hand guy. Uh we also talked about uh
00:49:27
um What what's famous right now in the in the news? We have these clown sightings.
00:49:32
right, yeah. That's a weird thing, right? With all these clowns that are scaring children
00:49:36
or they're in parks or they're in the woods and they're scaring people. So, what Joshua did was he set out to to
00:49:43
explore these different urban legends and he wanted to see if there was any truth to, you know, was there a crime
00:49:50
that happened somewhere a long time ago and at some point the the real life story manifest itself into this urban
00:49:57
legend. Right. Right. Yeah, and Kind of like with Cropsy. I mean Similar thought, yeah. And and
00:50:02
But it's a different urban legend he covers on this one. Yeah, he's able to track some things back like, you know,
00:50:07
the the the poison Halloween candy or razor blades in the Halloween candy. blades. He was able to to to track that
00:50:14
back to a case that took place in Texas. Uh the old babysitter You know, the baby
00:50:21
The babysitter's watching the kids and she gets a strange call and all the the calls coming from inside the house. You
00:50:27
remember that urban legend? He traces that back to some real life crime. When I was a banker
00:50:33
uh I had this lady that would come into the bank all the time. Little old lady. She's maybe like 4'5"
00:50:39
and she had a pink walker. And uh she always Well, I can't I'm not going to say my She would but she called me "Mr.
00:50:46
Edward." Okay. "Mr. Edward." And I go I go I understand what she was saying ever, but she told me one time she goes,
00:50:53
"Oh, you have a nice trick or treat and and watch out for the razor blades in the candy." That's strange that she
00:51:01
called it Edward cuz your last your Captain Jones. I It's not even close to Rogers. Captain Rogers Jones. But the
00:51:08
thing was is so every time I would see her all I could think was you got to watch out for that the razor blades in
00:51:15
the candy. Anyways, I hope Ruthie is doing okay out there. All right, where are we at? I just gave
00:51:23
my number three, Killer Legends. Okay. And that one's on That one's on Netflix as well. I have not I'm going to write
00:51:29
that down on my arm. You're going to love that one. That one's cuz you're kind of you're into conspiracy theories
00:51:35
a little bit. Theory Jones. You you love the rabbit hole traveling and this is Rogers. This is a very This is very
00:51:43
Captainish. All right, so let's do your number two. Okay. Cuz this is another one that I want to check out that I have
00:51:49
not seen. Your number three and number two, right when I saw your list uh I actually wrote these down cuz I
00:51:55
thought if they're so high on your list and I haven't seen these, I'd probably enjoy them.
00:52:01
My number two came out in 2004 and it's called Aileen: Life and Death of a Serial Killer. This is about Aileen
00:52:08
Wuornos. Uh she was a female serial killer in Florida. She's known as Monster, right? Yeah, they made
00:52:15
the the theatrical version of her life was was Monster with Charlize Theron. Yeah. Um and this this one is incredible
00:52:24
and I can't remember the the guy's name, but you'll see him in the film and you'll recognize him. He's done a bunch
00:52:30
of documentaries and Ken Burns. No. It's not him. He went and did jazz and he did baseball and then he went right
00:52:40
to true crime docs. I believe Aileen Wuornos killed six men according to the court system. Mhm. And uh this is filmed
00:52:48
after she's in prison. She's on death row in Florida. And but there's it's crazy because there's all kinds of drama
00:52:56
that's not involved with her crimes. There are people that are trying to get close to her because she is be she's
00:53:03
become famous Right. because she's a serial killer and there's all these people that want to
00:53:06
make movies and write books about her. I mean, they the people came out of the woodwork and they were just throwing
00:53:12
money around like there's no tomorrow. And she had a uh a you know, she had an attorney who was probably taking money
00:53:19
from different people to sell her story. She had somebody a friend that that uh that she didn't know until she was on
00:53:25
death row who adopted her. Um and she had a she had a adopt her? Yeah, you can you can be a
00:53:32
legally adopted in some states even if you're an adult. Mhm. Um Well, the Captain's off. If you want to adopt the
00:53:40
Captain, just uh write into uh contact page at truecrimegarage.com. But only if your garage is bigger than
00:53:47
this one. We're not moving into a smaller garage. That's right. We need to adopt the captain, Roger Jones. So check
00:53:53
out Aileen: Life and Death of a Serial Killer. Yeah, now what did you think of the movie Monster? Did you enjoy that? I
00:54:00
did. I liked the movie Monster, but this this is this for me is I mean it was tough. This
00:54:07
by far, you know, this is a great number two. And it's it's a documentary that I've
00:54:12
watched a few times. It's the kind of it's the kind of movie or film that if you turn on the TV, if you're flipping
00:54:19
through the channels and you see it, you kind of have to you just stop and you end up watching it again. So I don't
00:54:24
know how many times I've watched half of the the documentary or the whole thing.
00:54:28
What was number two for the captain? Um one that did not make your list. A Soaked in Bleach. Mhm. Again, maybe
00:54:36
because I I I do like the conspiracy side of things. Mhm. Um this was done in 2015.
00:54:44
Uh I think this is what's so weird. So the Rotten Tomato meter is at 30%. Unless I wrote Unless I wrote that down
00:54:54
wrong, but it says 30% and 77% from the audience. So a big jump. Um this is not rated.
00:55:04
Run time is about 90 minutes. Now, basically what's happening here is Courtney Love a couple days before Kurt
00:55:11
Cobain's body is found. Uh she hires a private detective. And one of the things I really like about
00:55:19
this story is it he answers the phone on on a holiday. Mhm. And he's writing the stuff down and he
00:55:27
doesn't know who Kurt Cobain is. It was Easter, I think. He answered the phone on Easter Sunday.
00:55:32
Yeah, but it's like he doesn't know who he is. Now, and this is uh you know a Yeah, the reason why I I enjoy that part
00:55:42
that he doesn't know who Well, first of all, he doesn't know who he is. He's probably the most famous
00:55:47
rocker at the time, one of the biggest icons, you know, that generation's John Lennon. You know, a lot of people were
00:55:54
just idolizing this guy. Doesn't know who he is. And uh having a father you know, that was in law
00:56:01
enforcement and stuff and and didn't know who celebrities were or famous musicians, people that were making a
00:56:08
mark on on people. So, the fact that he didn't know who he was and then it became the biggest thing in this guy's
00:56:14
life. This guy he's never heard of. And and the other thing that I really like about this Okay.
00:56:21
I want to try to sell it too much on why it should be number two, but there was a lot of hype and I would
00:56:27
constantly see this in YouTube feeds for years. The They were talking about the making of this this documentary.
00:56:34
I mean, years beforehand I knew this movie was coming out. And so, as it got closer and there was actually a
00:56:41
definitive date because like for a year and a half beforehand there was no definitive date.
00:56:46
And uh when it was coming out I believe I paid for it on pay-per-view, but I had
00:56:51
some friends that were really interested in checking this out. And the the other
00:56:55
thing I love about this is he takes all these tapes as he's hired by Courtney Love. He takes the you
00:57:02
know, they have phone conversation. He records them. And then they reenact the tapes. Now, I was listening to Joe
00:57:10
Joe Rogan actually talk about this and he said, "Well, I don't know if you can believe it or not. They have actors
00:57:15
doing whatever and they're reenacting um little scenes." No, they're not reenacting the scenes. Those are actual
00:57:24
tape recordings of the scenes and then there's actors portraying those characters. And there are some scenes
00:57:30
that are reenacted. but for the most part, you're actually getting to see this footage or to hear
00:57:38
this audio footage. Now, the problem is is there's you know, hundreds and hundreds of hours
00:57:46
of audio tapes, and they're just they're picking and choosing what you get to listen to. But, I wasn't
00:57:54
necessarily a huge Nirvana fan by any means. Um I thought you know, they were good band and everything, but it wasn't
00:58:01
like, you know, he was like the second coming of Christ for me or anything. Or Lennon, you mean.
00:58:08
And he wasn't Well, and he wasn't the second coming of of Lennon Lennon for me. Um
00:58:14
but I've just always been but I don't know be I think once people started And I think when it happened when I was a
00:58:22
kid, I didn't understand like, okay, he killed himself. And there was some rumors that maybe she was involved, but
00:58:29
I didn't really care or look into it too much, but for some reason this Soaked in
00:58:34
Bleach was always on my radar. And so, I was really excited when it came out. Uh
00:58:39
didn't disappoint me. Uh one of my friends wouldn't not shut up during the whole movie. They kept on going, "That's
00:58:45
fake rain. It's fake rain." Uh duh. But, if I But, if I watch scenes back, but no,
00:58:52
even the outside scenes. There's outside scenes that it's like CGI rain. Right. I
00:58:58
Yeah, I could tell. Yeah, but I was like, but it wasn't until she started bitching about it that it like just
00:59:04
threw me off, and I was like, I wish they wouldn't have had that, but uh it's a it's definitely an interesting
00:59:09
case, and I believe if you just think that he committed suicide, it's enough to start making you think, oh, possibly.
00:59:17
Possibly. It made me second second guess the whole suicide. I'll be honest with you, and
00:59:22
part part of it for me, and probably maybe why it gets sometimes these things get a low rating, as you said, if the if
00:59:29
people don't agree with their with the theory that's being presented. Yeah. Um and for me that that was kind
00:59:35
of the situation here. I thought it was well put together. Uh it was entertaining to watch. The fascinating
00:59:43
part of it to me was just what you said, the tapes of Courtney Love talking. And
00:59:48
she's this with is Some of these recordings are within days of Kurt's death. And so you're getting a um
00:59:55
you're getting a very quick reaction to to maybe one of the biggest tragedies in
01:00:02
her life. And it's Well, and it's authentic, too. to hear if you, you know, you're you're
01:00:08
When you're listening to her, you're trying to decide is she being legit here or am I supposed to be reading between
01:00:15
the lines? You know, is she is she just putting this on? Because at sometimes she does sound very guilty of something
01:00:23
uh in on those tapes. And other times she just sounds like a grieving widow. Uh but it but it is definitely
01:00:30
interesting. It came very close to making my top 10. Yeah, it's definitely if you have a evening and
01:00:36
you're and you haven't seen it, uh I definitely recommend Soaked in Bleach. That was 2015.
01:00:43
Uh is that one on Netflix? I believe so. Well, I don't know. See, it's weird with
01:00:47
the Netflix cuz I just got Netflix. I just got hip to the Netflix. And there you know, you can search. And
01:00:54
there's tons of stuff. But I kind of just always just browse what they're kind of recommending. Except for that I
01:01:00
they had this stupid kangaroo movie that I like Kangaroo Jack that I didn't Oh. No, here's what happened.
01:01:06
What else are you watching that it recommends Kangaroo Jack? No, no. I I I was looking up the documentary called
01:01:12
Jaco. It's on this famous jazz bass player. It said Jaco. I hit play and it started playing this
01:01:20
Kangaroo Jack, which I stopped within like a minute. But it's on my playlist that I played and it recommends me some
01:01:27
ridiculous stuff because of Kangaroo Jack. The people at Netflix are having fun with you.
01:01:33
I keep I've sent them 300 emails. Can you please take this off my playlist? I was really proud of my playlist. I
01:01:38
thought it was, you know, pretty I mean, other than like the New Girl, I'm I'm pretty proud of of the shows
01:01:44
that are on it. Excellent. Number one, have we reached number one? It's time. It's time for the number one.
01:01:51
Time for number one. Drum roll. Hold on. I don't have a drum. Wait, wait. We actually both had the exact same
01:02:00
number one here. We Yeah. Uh which Weird. Well, you know what? I don't know that it's entirely weird. I kind of
01:02:07
suspected that that this one would be up there pretty high for both of us, that it would fall into the one or two slot
01:02:14
for both of us. Uh But the other the other advantage that this one has is it's a trilogy. You know, it's kind of
01:02:22
it's kind of teamed up on ganged up on the other ones, you know? It's it's one documentary versus three. In one case,
01:02:29
it's always fascinated us and and every all the listeners know, West Memphis 3. Wars
01:02:35
trilogy. Uh well, West Memphis 3 has always been one of our favorite cases and we discussed it on this show, of
01:02:42
course. But so the Paradise Lost trilogy is the number one for the both of us. And the first one came out in 1996. That
01:02:50
was the um the first one. It was the child murders at Robin Hood Hills. Uh Revelations was part two, which came out
01:02:58
in 2001. And then Purgatory was the third and final installment in that trilogy. And
01:03:04
that came out in 2012. Right, the same year that West Memphis you know, West of Memphis
01:03:10
West of Memphis came out, which you could lump that together with all this and call that the part four. So,
01:03:17
Paradise Lost 100% on Rotten Tomatoes. By critics or audience? By critics. 93% by critics again. That's a pretty high
01:03:28
number cuz this is a a case that there's a big division. Mhm. And the fight there's a big division, but it
01:03:35
constantly goes back and forth. You got constantly have these and look, I'm guilty of it, too. You watch a
01:03:41
documentary and you go, "They're innocent." You watch something else, you go, "They're guilty." Yeah. Then you
01:03:46
hear something else and you go, "They're innocent." Uh so, no no rating ranking not ranking. Rating. rating on
01:03:56
that. And this beer, man, it's a really good Halloween party. It's funny, too. I wish they could see
01:04:03
our costumes. We dressed up. It's just we you know, but anyways, Yeah, you're Kangaroo Jack and I'm
01:04:09
Batman. Uh the the the the Paradise Lost for me, man, it's it's it's my favorite. I can
01:04:16
watch it 100 times. I may have watched some of these close to that. Uh you know, when we did the when we
01:04:22
discussed the case about 3 weeks beforehand, I I ventured back and and watched these again. Uh the first one,
01:04:30
it grips you right away. Like as soon as as soon as you hear the Metallica music
01:04:35
in the background. Uh and and for me, there's a couple of Metallica songs that I cannot hear to this day without
01:04:42
immediately my mind going to some of those images from the Paradise Lost trilogy. Yeah. And I will say though,
01:04:48
for for someone that if there's anyone out there that's not seen these before, uh I think the third one was quite a bit
01:04:55
less watched than the first two, but if there's anybody that's not seen these before,
01:05:00
it's not I it's not a lot of investigation. You know what I mean? It's it's it's more of you are being
01:05:09
introduced to the parents of the victims, you're being introduced to the accused.
01:05:15
And it's a lot of their personalities, especially the first one. You're you're seeing the the initial reaction to a
01:05:23
horrible, heinous crime. And but at the same time, you're wondering are the are these teenagers that are being accused,
01:05:31
are they are they actually innocent or are they guilty? And and why are they being accused? You start asking yourself
01:05:37
why at some point. Well, in the little trailer that I made with the different clips of the
01:05:41
documentaries. I mean, Damien Echols says it pretty I think brilliantly is yeah, there's a
01:05:48
tragedy. There's a horrible tragedy of three kids being murdered. The other tragedy, if it if if that's
01:05:57
the case, is that anybody in this country could be arrested for a crime that they didn't do.
01:06:03
Uh now, these guys claim their innocence. Again, a lot of you got to look at is there evidence?
01:06:10
This documentary doesn't do that. I think the I think West of Memphis kind of makes it more about evidence and and
01:06:18
some other speculations. But I think some of it is um I didn't I don't think I I think I
01:06:24
watched maybe parts of one when I was younger. I didn't watch it in 1996, but when we started going to talk about
01:06:33
this case, I've always seen a bunch of clips, but to actually sit down and watch all three
01:06:39
of them. Mhm. And I think a lot of it is just nostalgic. I mean, 1996, I I was roughly
01:06:47
uh Damien Echols and and and three the West Memphis three, I was roughly their age, you know, uh
01:06:54
big into Metallica and stuff like that. So, I think there's a lot of nostalgic to it.
01:06:59
Uh and I think that's what makes me so interested or fascinated with those documentaries. I'll tell you what, I
01:07:05
could watch 20 hours of Mark Byers. Uh you know, just take away everything from the case. I could sit and watch Mark
01:07:12
Byers for hours and hours. Uh But yeah, the uh Well, they're fascinating to watch now
01:07:18
because you know, it hindsight is 20/20. I mean, these these three boys get out, you
01:07:24
know, it on an Alford plea. But to go back and watch what happens, and then go back and to watch not only
01:07:33
um all these parents, what they say about these three boys, but how that changes over time. I mean, and some of
01:07:40
those documentaries, they're claiming, "Hey, you know, I'll be at your grave. You're
01:07:45
a You're a son of a [ __ ] You're all these things, right?" But then years later, we know that some of these
01:07:51
parents with because of evidence, they're on the side of the West Memphis Three now. There's a big
01:07:57
big culture shift, you know, with because of these documentaries. Well, and with it being Halloween, too, we
01:08:04
should point out that there is the famous scene with Mark Byers shooting a pumpkin. You know, he's got this big
01:08:09
giant pistol, and he's standing about 20 ft from it, and he's just shooting bullets into a pumpkin. Yeah, and
01:08:15
screaming, "This is for you, the West Memphis Three." Yeah, and I "This is for you." But the
01:08:20
cool thing, the the great thing, not only the Metallica music is great, but the but the other great thing is it's
01:08:25
like grainy and gritty, and it doesn't look like overly produced. It's not that Hollywood.
01:08:31
Right. It's not Hollywood at all. And I The first time I watched it, I watched it when it was on HBO when I when I was
01:08:36
younger, and it it blew my mind. I couldn't stop watching it, and it it it it felt like the first uh reality TV
01:08:44
thing that that I had seen. You know what I mean? The the first one that had sucked me in like that, and I couldn't
01:08:49
quit watching it. But yeah, grainy, gritty, it's uh the best. Yeah, like you said, there's not going
01:08:54
to be tons of information about the case. I I'd really argue that if you watch it, like once I did the research
01:09:02
for our episode on the case and then I watched it, I kept on thinking there's no information.
01:09:06
There's about 10 minutes of evidence in each one of the three movies. Right. So, it's kind of confusing. It's
01:09:11
not like with um the Amanda Knox case and and some of the other cases that really kind of or the
01:09:18
case of JonBenét Ramsey. Those documentaries really lay out a solid timeline, some solid evidence,
01:09:27
what it what you could argue as far as what evidence is, um and what is speculation.
01:09:33
Um these documentaries don't do that, you know? So, uh but I think they're fascinating.
01:09:40
And I and I I think even a year from now if you ask me what my favorite I think that'd probably be
01:09:48
Always maybe number one. Yeah, for me. Because it was the one one of the first ones, you know, the first
01:09:55
one that really um brought brought this subject to my attention. Well, and while we're on the
01:10:02
subject, I'm same for me. It's still going to be my number one for for maybe forever. And but uh recommended reading,
01:10:09
we can't do recommended reading after we talk about all these documentaries you should watch. So, for this week we're
01:10:14
going to do recommended viewing. Go to our website and you can we we're going to have the uh Paradise Lost trilogy.
01:10:21
They have a little three-pack box set that you can get. You can get that through our Amazon banner. Pick that up
01:10:26
today at no extra cost to you. It helps the garage and the captain really wanted
01:10:31
candy corn, but it was not in the budget for this year. Uh so, pick that up through our website
01:10:36
truecrimegarage.com. Nobody likes candy corn. Yeah, you can get anything through Amazon and they
01:10:42
just give us a little kickback on the website. So, again, thanks. I hope everybody enjoyed the top 10 list.
01:10:49
Do you want to run them down real quick? Yeah, go ahead. All right. So, mine is Capturing the Friedmans,
01:10:57
uh Amanda Knox, number nine, number eight is the case of JonBenét Ramsey. Number seven is Imposter, number six is
01:11:06
Cropsey. Uh, number five is Who Took Johnny, number four is Finding Emma Fillipoff by
01:11:13
Fit the State. Number three is West of Memphis, number two is Soaked in Bleach, and number one
01:11:20
is The Paradise Lost Trilogies. Captain, I enjoyed your list. I'm going to check
01:11:25
out uh, you had a couple on there that I have not seen. I'm going to check those
01:11:28
out. My list, number 10 Cropsey, number nine Imposter, number eight Making a Murderer, number seven The Iceman Tapes,
01:11:35
number six The Devil and the Death Penalty, number five Dear Zachary, number four Who Took Johnny, number
01:11:41
three Killer Legends, number two Aileen: Life and Death of a Serial Killer, and of course number one is The Paradise
01:11:49
Lost Trilogy. I hope everybody had as much fun at our Halloween party as we did, and I hope you enjoyed our list. If
01:11:55
there's any on there that you've not checked out, make sure you check those out. Uh, I do want to give a
01:12:00
another thank you to Joshua Zeman for taking time to discuss his documentaries with me, and remind you to check out his
01:12:07
new show The Killing Season, which is about the Long Island Serial Killer case. Yeah. Uh, and it's starting on
01:12:13
A&E, and that takes place it will start November 12th. It's a um, it's an eight-part series, so check that
01:12:20
out. Yeah, that's going to be a really good one. And hopefully maybe we can follow
01:12:23
it and do uh, you know, kind of a, you know, recap like what we thought of each episode or
01:12:28
something. He said he he told me watch a couple episodes and give him a call back. He'd be he's he said we're going
01:12:33
to have questions. He goes, "This is going to blow your mind what you're going to see with this case." Yeah,
01:12:37
yeah. So, I'm interested in it, and we got to get back to our Halloween party. I know that a little bit later the
01:12:42
Captain is going to karaoke the Monster Mash. It's been requested. It's a mash. It's the Monster Mash. Uh, but thanks
01:12:50
for listening. Thanks for telling a friend, and we'll see you guys next week in the garage.
01:12:54
hope everybody had a happy and safe Halloween. Don't forget to get out there and vote next Tuesday.
01:13:01
And until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.