00:00:00
hey Prime members did you know you could be listening to this podcast episode in
00:00:04
all episodes of True Crime Garage on Amazon music included with your Prime Membership all Amazon Prime members also
00:00:13
get access to the largest catalog of AdFree top podcast enjoy other True Crime shows like morbid Mr Ballin and
00:00:22
many more to start listening download the Amazon music app or visit amazon.com AdFree that's
00:00:31
amazon.com AdFree AA ring is the world's most trusted smart ring that gives you accurate 247 data on your health from
00:00:39
sleep to activity to recovery and more lightweight stylish and comfortable aing is your personal health guide that lives
00:00:47
on your finger and seamlessly fits into any Lifestyle the aing membership gives your body a voice with personalized
00:00:53
insights and recommendations so you can make your health and wellness a daily practice to learn more in shop or ring
00:01:00
head to orar ring.com [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:01:46
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who I thought would be my Silent Partner here is the captain
00:01:53
silent but deadly partner it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
00:02:01
[Music] today we are still drinking garage beer I guess every week Captain we are
00:02:07
drinking garage beer but this garage beer is called garage beer and it's a classic light beer brewed the way light
00:02:14
beer used to be made this is cold refreshing beer 3 G of carbs 95 calories garage grade 3 and 34 bottle caps out of
00:02:25
five and if you would like some true crime garage for your eyeballs check us out on YouTube and if you would like to
00:02:32
help out the show and get something in return you can score some true crime garage gear on our websites store Page
00:02:39
true Crim garage.com yeah BW beerun and that is enough of the next right everybody gather around
00:02:50
grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime we will be talking a lot about DNA in
00:03:06
this case here today but before we get into the DNA evidence and especially that cigarette butt that we talked so
00:03:13
much about at the end of yesterday's episode we need to talk about the suspects police found in Johnny's Social
00:03:20
Circle now this is the early stages of the investigation here Captain this is within days and weeks after the double
00:03:29
homicide side now we know that police spoke many times to Johnny's close friend and I want to use that term
00:03:37
loosely we're being told that they were close friends but it sounds to me Captain that that
00:03:44
Johnny may have had a couple of air quotes close friends for a few months the summer and fall prior to his
00:03:56
murder and these people may not have necess neily been involved in his life prior to that right and so we want to
00:04:05
make sure we're using that term loosely especially if Johnny's friends and loved
00:04:10
ones are listening and they and they're getting upset that we're calling this individual close friend but this is how
00:04:17
it's reported and that's what he's referred to as and we're talking about somebody that we've mentioned briefly
00:04:22
before Anthony Watson he also goes by Tony and tone Watson now he is a key player here in this investigation and
00:04:34
either considered to be a suspect or a person with information to police early on in the investigation because he will
00:04:41
ultimately tell authorities that he was supposed to either stop by the stob house the
00:04:49
evening of the double homicide or if you listen to the entirety of the interview
00:04:55
with Anthony Watson he also makes reference to the possibility that Johnny might be
00:05:01
stopping by his house so I have not been able to sort out if this is Watson changing his story or not wanting to put
00:05:10
himself as potentially being at the stob house or going to the St house that night but the reason why we know this to
00:05:19
be part of the case is that a person who is not considered to be a suspect and should not be considered a suspect uh we
00:05:28
remember we spoke about Johnny's very close friend the the lifelong friend that ends up talking to
00:05:36
Tiffany and Zach that night and that's how they ultimately get in touch with Johnny's
00:05:43
parents so Johnny's lifelong best friend and some others are people that tell the police
00:05:52
look we know that Anthony Watson was either supposed to drop by the stob house or Johnny was supposed to go to an
00:05:59
Anthony's house that night because Johnny said this to a couple people before the
00:06:07
murder so this obviously will be somebody that police want to talk to did you did you actually end up going to the
00:06:13
stra house did Johnny end up going to your house and you can hear in the interview that he says no that the
00:06:20
Meetup never actually took place in fact the the short of it the best way to sum
00:06:24
it up is that Johnny mentions to a person that he's on the phone with speaking the person that he's speaking
00:06:34
to immediately before taking the call from Tiffany Williams Anthony Watson tells police
00:06:41
that the two were planning to meet up but when it got too late he bailed telling Johnny that he had to get up
00:06:47
early for school the following morning now I can't vouch for that part of The Alibi right but we do know that Anthony
00:06:57
Watson was in school at that time time um so that that may be just as Anthony Watson says well we also we don't law
00:07:10
enforcement has the phone record so they could be able to run that alibi we hope
00:07:17
so yes we we hope right that they have all of the phone records and so did the two actually see each other that night
00:07:25
that remains a question for a lot of people and and even though the DNA evidence is going to lead us to two
00:07:32
other individuals both of them not named Anthony Watson there is evidence at the murder
00:07:38
scene that other persons were involved so we can't really eliminate everybody else just because that DNA led us to two
00:07:46
other individuals and the tricky thing here though with Watson there's parts of that interview
00:07:57
and we looked at that interview quite a bit because on the surface he seems to be
00:08:03
very much like a like a twin of Samuel Williams they you know they dress the same they kind of act the same they they
00:08:12
both have criminal background history of violence but there's something a little
00:08:18
different about Watson to me and and it's just this is not proof of anything it's just a it's just kind of a gut
00:08:25
reaction that I get to his interview that there's something about him that tells that my instinct here Captain is
00:08:34
that I believe that he's telling the truth more times and he's not telling the truth in that interview he doesn't
00:08:41
come off as standoffish to law enforcement it seems like he's willing to have a conversation with them he's
00:08:49
willing to even Ponder ideas that he might not even know if it's true or not here's some rumors I heard I'm not
00:08:57
really for sure but he also seems again so he seems like he's willing to cooperate and he seems like he's pretty
00:09:05
relaxed when you look at some of the other interrogations those people come across as not willing to cooperate and
00:09:15
they're definitely not relaxed yeah it's it's strange too because there were parts of that
00:09:20
interview that I thought oh man the way that he is he just keeps taking a sip of
00:09:26
that drink almost like he's nervous and I'm like doing that constantly because he's nervous and he's nervous because
00:09:32
he's lying and then I thought that I thought the uh detective did a good job trying to back him into a corner and
00:09:39
asked him straight up he's like are you nervous and Watson says no I'm pissed and I got get getting to think about it
00:09:47
and watching him again that could explain the that what I thought was nervous drinking and he may just be
00:09:56
pissed like he told the officer um he does interesting that you thought he came off as nervous cuz I I thought he
00:10:02
came I mean I guess I didn't notice I I have to go back I guess I didn't notice how many times he was taken a
00:10:10
drink that was the only part you're right though his his verbal just the verbal communication I was trying to
00:10:17
watch and get an opinion of him on just his physical communication and his body language but his verbal communication
00:10:26
with the officer is incredibly casual like it it it appears that not only like this guy with a criminal
00:10:35
history he's very comfortable with the detective and not because he thinks he's smarter than the detective or anything
00:10:43
like that it almost feels like like they may have they may know each other fairly
00:10:47
well because they they speak pretty candidly to one another or at least it appears that way and almost in a chummy
00:10:53
manner at times too um but he well like he said he has a criminal history so this this is probably a situation that
00:11:00
he's been in before but it's a big difference to be in that situation and be guilty of something and to be into
00:11:07
that in that situation and not be guilty of something yes and one thing that's interesting he remains an interesting
00:11:15
figure in this whole case because where I can't decide where he falls again we're looking for additional suspects
00:11:22
because we know other people or at least the evidence is telling us other people
00:11:26
were involved in this double homicide now he remains an interesting figure to me for a couple
00:11:35
reasons one he tells he does tell police some information like uh that that he had
00:11:42
heard that there were at least four people involved in the murder and he he references two males and two
00:11:54
females and the tricky thing though with Watson to me me what is not in question is that he
00:12:03
was in communication with Johnny right and we we that's that is per him he he says that Johnny told other people that
00:12:11
that night so we he agrees with with that that he was in communication with Johnny on the on the day that Johnny was
00:12:19
killed what we need to learn more about Watson is exactly what you said Captain with the phone records I'm hoping that
00:12:27
they have subpoena all the potential people all the proper channels and received all of those phone records and
00:12:36
then put them together make put them together cross cross reference them and put together a a timeline of just the
00:12:45
phone calls between about anywhere from four to about eight different people and
00:12:51
I think you could get a very clear picture or at least a a very good understanding of the
00:12:58
movements and maybe who was with who that night I think the problem though too is again a guy with a criminal
00:13:06
history if he knows some of these other individuals that might have been involved it'd be hard to fault him for
00:13:15
not naming names because of what these guys are obviously capable of and I don't know if he has children of his own
00:13:26
or other family members but that'd be a very tough situation to be in even if you just heard rumors you you don't know
00:13:35
for certain who was there and to give that information to the police knowing are the police going to be able to catch
00:13:42
these guys before they come after me well and you're exactly right and we're going to see this throughout the the
00:13:52
remainder of this investigation and reminder it's not completely solved this is not a solved case that we are talking
00:13:59
about here today and it's partially solved right yeah if we want if we want to call it that but but the thing is
00:14:06
Anthony Watson does name names to the to the police I don't know if that that put
00:14:14
puts him in a or paints him in a different light for for people out there but he does name names now the other
00:14:21
person that we need to talk about another central figure in this investigation is
00:14:27
Alexandra KZ who goes by Alex now police question this woman Alex who would eventually be determined by
00:14:39
police as the quote common denominator between all the persons of interest in the friend group
00:14:47
regarding anyone's involvement with the murder of the young couple and so while we say common denominator this is going
00:14:56
to be key here Captain because what is quickly understood by police one thing that they sort out in
00:15:05
this case is when that DNA evidence on that cigarette butt lead them to Samuel Williams and Cameo pedway whose DNA was
00:15:14
found on that cigarette butt both of them they quickly determined that Samuel Williams and and Cameo pedway did not
00:15:23
know Lisa stro did not know Johnny that Johnny and did not know Cameo or Samuel Williams so there has to
00:15:33
be these two just didn't show up randomly in the middle of the night and kick in the door and attack these people
00:15:40
and kill them in the way that the horrible way that they were killed nobody believes that the evidence
00:15:46
suggests otherwise police said from the beginning they believed based off of the
00:15:52
evidence and the circumstances surrounding the case that the killers were known to who are
00:16:00
victims and so we need someone to Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon right we need somebody that is degree number one two
00:16:09
and three from Johnny and Lisa to connect us to these persons that the DNA's found in their home and police say
00:16:17
that this person could be Alexandra kuseno so they say that she may be the common denominator between all the
00:16:25
persons of interest in the friend group and persons regarding this double homicide so Alex is an of interest to
00:16:33
the police very early on for several reasons one she had a falling out with Johnny over the purchase of a dog and a
00:16:45
car so in October of 2010 remember they're killed in 2011 late January Johnny and Lisa agreed to buy a
00:16:57
puppy off of this Alex keno and the as The Story Goes they agreed to pay her $100 for the
00:17:08
puppy but only paid her $50 so she's upset about this and the the three of them have words over this a
00:17:17
couple of times but as the story goes she eventually they eventually make up that they let bygones be bygones right
00:17:26
then sometime around Thanksgiving this may have been just before just after Thanksgiving now unfortunately we only
00:17:34
have Alex here to tell us her side of the story she claims that Johnny was constantly trying to talk her into
00:17:44
buying his car Johnny has a Dodge Stratus and he according to Alex wanted to sell it to her for $1,500
00:17:54
cash now we do know that Johnny did not have a vehicle at the time of the homicide so this will kind of explain
00:18:01
away why he does not have a vehicle the the flip side of this story and we we have to kind of sort this out and figure
00:18:10
out who we believe here is Johnny's friends and family say no no no no she talked him into selling her the car it
00:18:19
wasn't Johnny that was constantly asking her to buy it she talked them into it so
00:18:25
two very different opinions of the same situation different accounts yeah so in her interview with police with the with
00:18:36
the same detective that interviewed Tony Watson Samuel Williams and Tiffany Williams she tells police that that
00:18:44
Johnny relentlessly pushed her to buy the vehicle despite the fact that she wasn't really interested but she you
00:18:51
know was was friends with him and needed a car anyway so she agreed to buy the vehicle from him and she says she paid
00:18:58
him $750 cash and promised that that she would pay him the other 750 either in payments installments or
00:19:10
or at another time now the way that this goes down is Johnny doesn't sign over the title to
00:19:18
her so this would be possible further proof that yes she was supposed to pay him the additional
00:19:27
money right however in December she so she has the car for a very short period of
00:19:35
time and she gets into this big argument with Johnny about the vehicle and so what John what she's
00:19:45
saying is that oh the the car was was in really bad shape I had it for a short period of time the tire fell off she's
00:19:54
saying that the car breaks down so she doesn't want to pay for the rest of it meanwhile
00:19:58
others are saying that Johnny was angry with her because she wouldn't pay him the rest of the money right what ends up
00:20:05
happening is Johnny's parents get involved and they are not happy about this whole car situation they think that
00:20:15
Alex duped him out of the vehicle and probably was trying to get him to sign over the title so she wouldn't have to
00:20:22
pay him the extra 750 and then she recklessly drives this thing so it breaks down now maybe not on
00:20:30
purpose but she's driving in a manner that you wouldn't drive uh an older car so there was damage to the vehicle
00:20:37
that's not a question and we know that because once Johnny's parents get involved and guess what once you get the
00:20:43
law involved whoever's name's on the title has rightful ownership to that vehicle regardless of what exchanged
00:20:50
hands or what agreement that you had yeah so is law enforcement looking at this as a possible motive uh yes and
00:20:57
here's why so law enforcement they they go out to uh Alex and they take the vehicle from her and return it to Johnny
00:21:06
right and so now after that takes place no more money exchanges hands she wants her
00:21:13
$750 back Johnny wants the car fixed because she she busted up the car so both of them are not happy well the
00:21:23
reason why this becomes possible motive it's not so much about the car it's not not so much about the puppy it's not so
00:21:29
much about the money that's owed it's the Bad Blood that's Brewing between the two of
00:21:36
them because we we know that that Alex we have several people in this case who said under oath that they
00:21:47
had knowledge that Alex threatened Johnny's life on more than one occasion so she threatens and and one of
00:21:58
the threats is very specific saying if you don't give me my $750 back I'm going to send a couple
00:22:06
guys over to your house to kill you and Lisa well this becomes of Interest obviously to police because what
00:22:15
happened to Johnny and Lisa yeah this happens to Johnny and Lisa less than 60 days after these
00:22:25
threats first start I'm going to send a couple guys over there to kill you and Lisa uh it looks like somebody may have
00:22:32
sent a couple guys over to the str's house the night that they were killed right yeah because like we said
00:22:40
before in the previous few episodes a motive is not that clear yeah it's a nice house maybe there
00:22:48
was some rumors that her her family kept money in the house or possibly a safe but no evidence of that and maybe the
00:22:59
other possibility is that they either had drugs or were going to get drugs or had money for drugs and maybe that
00:23:07
would be possibly the the the motive um and then you hear in the one interrogation that we talked
00:23:15
about um on part three is possibly the idea that look in this scenario you go well
00:23:24
this guy screwed me out of a car so I'm going to send over these thugs to to kill you and that is actually the motive
00:23:31
but they tell the guys going over oh there's money in the house so that's how you're going to get paid yeah well maybe
00:23:40
some of these guys that were down on their luck and trying to turn around their life thought that this was an
00:23:46
opportunity for a big score to start changing things yeah and and we've seen this in
00:23:54
other cases too right you you get these other persons involved and you sayl I need you to go over to this place and do
00:24:00
this thing for me who knows maybe it was just they were just supposed to scare him and beat them up I'll cut you in on
00:24:08
that 750 that I get back or you know I'll pay you x amount of dollars to to carry this out for me and
00:24:16
then what's the smart criminal going to say to the other smart criminal where the hell did you get that kind of
00:24:22
money and then then we go I I don't have that money but your payment is in the stob household it's inside that house so
00:24:34
you carry this out for me I'll help set this thing up I'll make sure that they're there and I'll make sure that
00:24:39
you get whatever money's in that house or we split it so what we do know is that the
00:24:46
cigarette butt collected at the house contained a mix of two male DNA profiles when investigators enter those profiles
00:24:54
into codus into the codus system they get a match to two existing samples in that database Cameo pedway and Samuel
00:25:03
Todd Williams Samuel Todd Williams is arrested for the murders of Lisa strob and Johnny Clark on January 31st
00:25:11
2011 when they were killed but he's not arrested until months and months later um ironically he's picked up while
00:25:20
he's out running to the store to buy a pack of cigarettes and he's 24 years old at the
00:25:26
time and he actually tells police he thought he was being arrested for other reasons remember he's he's got a lengthy
00:25:34
criminal history so he says look I don't know nothing about no murders well then why
00:25:40
do you think we picked you up and why do you think we arrest you he goes oh well
00:25:43
I think I thought it was for some other uh you know I he had a domestic violence warrant out against him
00:25:51
um he also says that his assumption was that he has a promoting prostitution charge in which he's involved in and he
00:26:01
thinks that it could be one or both of those reasons that the police they basically surround him in unmarked cars
00:26:08
and un uniformed officers and they take him down on the [Music] street this show is sponsored by better
00:26:25
help it's like I know what's good for me but my brain gets in the way do you ever
00:26:31
feel like your brain is getting in its own way like you know what you should do what's good for you but you just can't
00:26:37
do it therapy helps you figure out what's holding you back so you can work for yourself instead of against yourself
00:26:45
if you're thinking about starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed to be
00:26:51
convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get match with a
00:26:57
licensed therapist and switch therapist anytime for no additional charge make your brain your friend with betterhelp
00:27:06
visit betterhelp.com garage today to get 10% off your first month that's betterhelp
00:27:15
hp.com garage I'm so proud that this show is sponsored by better help check out betterhelp.com garage
00:27:24
today if you've been wanting to learn a new l language because you want to connect more with family members whose
00:27:30
native language isn't English or because it could make you a more competitive job
00:27:35
applicant then Rosetta Stone is for you Rosetta Stone is the most trusted app out there it will Fast trck your
00:27:43
language acquisition because lessons are immersive they're designed to teach you
00:27:48
to pick up languages in a natural way choose from one of 25 languages plus with Rosetta Stone's true accent feature
00:27:58
you'll get feedback on how well you're pronouncing words Rosetta Stone is convenient it can be used on desktop or
00:28:06
as an app and lessons are as short as 10 minutes plus it's an incredible value especially compared to pricey tutors a
00:28:15
good friend of mine is learning German why because his ancestry he wants to learn more about his family's history
00:28:22
and connect with extended family members so he is using Ros Stone to learn German
00:28:29
and he's told me that Rosetta Stone has made it fast and easy on his journey don't put off learning that language
00:28:36
there's no better time than right now to get started and Rosetta Stone makes the
00:28:40
perfect holiday gift for a very limited time True Crime garage listeners can get
00:28:45
Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off that's 50% off unlimited access to 25 language courses for the rest of
00:28:55
your life redeem your 50% off at rosettastone.com garaget toay if you're a parent you want to be
00:29:04
doing everything you can to set your child up for success in life so make sure to check
00:29:11
outl ISL is an online learning program for kids use it on your computer phone or tablet EXL covers math language arts
00:29:21
science and social studies through interactive practice problems from prek to 12th grade
00:29:28
Exel even has skill plans for specific textbooks as kids practice they get positive feedback Awards and clear
00:29:36
explanations when they get questions wrong plus as your kid uses it the ISL program figures out what your kids need
00:29:44
more help with and adapts it'll save so much time one subscription gets you everything all subjects all grade levels
00:29:54
one site you'll save so much money too memberships start at only $9.95 a monthl is something that all the parents
00:30:05
are leaning on these days the kids take a break for summer you don't want them forgetting everything that they learned
00:30:10
last year and starting off slow this year no my friends tell me their kids are loving the ISL experience and the
00:30:18
parents are very happy with ISL as well it's something you will want to check out with the school year ramping up now
00:30:25
is the best time to get our listeners can get an exclusive 20% offl membership when they sign up today
00:30:34
atl.com truecrimegarage visit.com truecrimegarage to get the most effective learning program out there at
00:30:45
the best price a ring is the world's most trusted smart ring they gives you accurate 24/7
00:30:52
data on your health from sleep to activity to recovery and more lightweight stylish and comfortable aing
00:30:59
is your personal health guide that lives on your finger and seamlessly fits into
00:31:03
any Lifestyle the aing membership gives your body a voice with personalized insights and recommendations so you can
00:31:09
make your health and wellness a daily practice to learn more and Shop Ora ring head to orar ring.com
00:31:19
[Music] all right we are back cheers ladies and gents cheers to you Colonel and cheers
00:31:32
to the people in the back cheers to you Captain when you when I say something like un uniformed officers that makes it
00:31:40
sound like they're just running the streets nude yeah it's it's plain clothes uh they were wearing plain
00:31:46
clothes uh well it gives a new definition to billy club I'll tell you you see nude individuals running at you
00:31:55
with guns be scared right nice billy club you got there to be too smart to be scared in that situation
00:32:02
so like we had said earlier when Samuel Todd Williams sits down with police I got a whole different
00:32:11
perspective on this guy than I got from somebody like Anthony Watson or even from Tiffany Williams like Tiffany
00:32:18
Williams to me doesn't seem smart enough to I think that she's lucky in this situation by either being confused
00:32:28
being confused by her drug addiction or that she can just play dumb because she she gives unclear evidence and
00:32:37
unclear statements and timelines to the police and I think that that really convoluted the whole situation for
00:32:44
police when talking to somebody like Tiffany Williams Samuel Williams who we look to try to see if there's any
00:32:52
relationship between the two because the last names are the same there is none that's ever reported and I believe that
00:33:00
if they were somehow related to one another I get it it's a common name but these are the checks and balances we try
00:33:05
to run here in the garage that I believe this would have been reported on uh police would have
00:33:12
would have said that another common denominator is this Tiffany Williams person now Tiffany
00:33:19
Williams and Samuel Williams and Cameo pedway they all know Alexandra as well so you you have your
00:33:29
common denominators here are Alex and Tiffany Williams that's your hop skiing a jump
00:33:37
that takes you from victim to the two persons arrested with the DNA now when they're talking to him
00:33:44
Captain I get a different vibe on him and the vibe I get on him is this is a dude that's
00:33:51
probably in everyday normal life probably pretty dumb uh makes very bad decisions commits terrible crimes
00:33:59
overall bad dude but guess what he's probably a fairly smart criminal and a career criminal and he's he he seems to
00:34:06
me to be the type that's old school in the way that I'm never going to admit to anything I'm never going to rat on
00:34:13
anybody anytime the cops talk to me about anything at all my answer is I don't know my answer is I is is it
00:34:21
daytime I don't know what's the date don't know I don't know anything yeah and it's it's difficult because you
00:34:28
don't want to call these jackasses intelligent but it's almost maybe not even intelligence as much as
00:34:35
it's just disciplined you ask me a question my answer is always no you ask me you ask me if the sky is blue I don't
00:34:44
know I don't even know what this guy is so when he's talked questioned by detectives about the murder and asked if
00:34:51
there's any bad blood between him and the couple Sam of course is saying I don't know them I've never been to that
00:34:59
house and he asserts that he stays on the side on the east side of Toledo that he's he's Toledo East Side he doesn't go
00:35:08
to the south side or he doesn't go to the west side and at some point Sam repeatedly tells the detectives that he
00:35:15
doesn't want to talk he does ask for his attorney uh authorities reveal around this time that his DNA has been matched
00:35:24
to a Newport cigarette a Newport brand cigarette butt that was found at the murder scene and that his DNA was mixed
00:35:32
with another individuals and they know that individual to be Cameo pedway and Cameo pedway is a known friend and
00:35:39
Associate of Sam Williams and the two have been known to share cigarettes there were multiple people that
00:35:46
confirmed this that the two on occasion would share a cigarette this one confirmed by the mother of Samuel
00:35:53
Williams child one of his sons who verifies that not only had she seen the two split a cigarette in the past but
00:36:02
also that Newport was the preferred brand of both Sam and Cameo so pedway is also charged Cameo is
00:36:13
also charged with the double homicide then the two men are scheduled to be tried separately but with the trials
00:36:19
held simultaneously in the same court now what this the short of it is Captain is that Sam is
00:36:28
arraigned via video and pleas not guilty to two counts of murder and two counts of aggravated burglary his bond is set
00:36:35
at $5 million at his arraignment Lisa's family requests that Sam face the death death penalty if convicted of the
00:36:43
murders to which the state eventually agrees so here here's the tricky part during his interview Sam struggled to
00:36:52
remember his whereabouts on the night of the crime but keep in mind he's being he's never questioned until he's
00:37:01
arrested why because they had nothing connecting victim to Sam Williams yeah because he was until that DNA came back
00:37:08
he didn't seem to be a friend he didn't which took months seem to be an acquaintance nobody in their Circle the
00:37:15
victim Circle had this guy on their radar so I believe Sam Williams when he says don't know those people I think he
00:37:28
didn't know them until that night I don't believe him when he says I was never at that house I think he knew them
00:37:34
after he had entered that house but he's not spoken to by police until eight months
00:37:41
after approximately eight months after the crimes and so he of course he's not going to be able to look he's two
00:37:49
situations that's all we have here for Sam Williams either he's going to provide attempt to provide an alibi and
00:37:57
and lie because he was in fact at the St home and responsible in these crimes or two he wasn't there and it's
00:38:05
eight months later and he's going to have difficulty sorting out where he was and who he was with right so he
00:38:14
eventually he reviews his own phone records and talks with family and friends and checks on his own social
00:38:23
media he's trying to figure out where he was that night if he wasn't involved or
00:38:30
establish some kind of fake Alibi if he was involved and what he comes up with is he says he was at the bottom line
00:38:37
which is a bar located at 2053 Star Avenue in Toledo this is on the east side now depending on which route you
00:38:47
take there's a few different common routes that one may take it's approximately 24 minutes to 29 minutes
00:38:54
away from Longacre Lane I'm pointing that out because the the timeline here gets real tight real tight uh with some
00:39:04
of the evidence that we have in the case so he says he's at the bottom line which
00:39:08
is a bar and he's watching the Pro Bowl the NFL Pro Bowl he mentions several other people who he says can confirm
00:39:16
that he's there now keep in mind he's giving this interview October 28th to the detectives he says that Larry
00:39:25
gilhouse was one of the persons that was there at the bottom line with him that night he also says
00:39:32
that Eddie Flores was there with him as well as Destiny Madrid so police talked to Larry gilhouse and
00:39:46
he says that he was there that night and this is what he tells the police he says
00:39:50
look Sam was at a party at my house for my daughter earlier that evening the night of the murders and he says
00:40:01
he specifically rememb Sam being there for multitude of reasons but one that Sam was the only one who stayed to help
00:40:08
him clean up now I believe that the two are cousins and he says after we cleaned
00:40:14
up from the party we went over to the bar to watch the bowl game the Pro Bowl and he says that gilhouse says the same
00:40:26
thing that Samuel Williams tells them that they stayed late they closed down the bar uh and typically I'm guessing
00:40:35
this bar would be a 2:00 2:30 a.m. kind of deal right um I've looked it up it's it's not
00:40:42
one of those mom and pop operations that close at 9ine or 10 o'clock now the other thing that that is tricky here is
00:40:50
one key time in our timeline has always been that 10:41 p.m. call from Tiffany Williams to our victim
00:41:00
Johnny who Tiffany saying that she hears that the intrusion the home invasion is
00:41:08
taking place at 10:41 I I did a little record checking here on this Pro Bowl because I was
00:41:17
super suspicious of this whole Pro Bowl situation yeah it seems like they're making a big deal out of this Pro Bowl
00:41:24
but it's not like everybody that likes professional football loves the Pro Bowl so the Pro Bowl ended at approximately
00:41:31
10:45 p.m. that night so that would be after the 1041 Tiffany call that's always been a big part of this case now
00:41:40
the reason why our timeline gets so tight here with this possible Alibi is one thing that we
00:41:48
cannot dismiss because it's it's data telling us that there was a phone call made on Sam's phone at 10:27 p.m. that
00:42:00
pinged off of a cell phone tower near the bottom line bar so he would be at 10:27 p.m. his
00:42:09
phone I can't say where Sam was but his phone was 24 to 29 minutes away from Longacre
00:42:18
Lane where the two were killed this call to me is all kinds of strange because part of his Alibi is
00:42:28
he's at the bottom line bar with these three other individuals he closes the bar down with a couple of them and then
00:42:37
later he is hanging out with this Destiny Madrid girl for the early morning hours of the
00:42:45
following day you know they're going to party all night together but the phone call that puts his phone so many miles
00:42:52
away from the from the crime scene and in a time frame that doesn't leave enough time for him to get there to be
00:43:00
there at 10:41 p.m. that call is a call with Destiny Madrid one of the people that he says
00:43:09
he's already hanging out with so we know he's not already hanging out with her right what we end up what we end up
00:43:15
learning is that the explanation given is that oh she was on her way he was calling to see when she would get there
00:43:23
you know where are you I thought we were hanging out and so she making her way to
00:43:27
the bar at that time so these this explanation this Alibi ultimately are not believed by the police
00:43:40
and I've heard some people it's hard to believe it because you have his DNA at the crime scene exactly ex that's if
00:43:47
there was no DNA at the crime scene then you go well this story is maybe plausible there's some people that have
00:43:54
said you know what he couldn't have got there that fast in that time um that look let's be clear here the cell phone
00:44:00
tower records put him near the they don't we can't we can't use that data to put his ass on a bar stool at the bottom
00:44:09
line right bar all we can say is that his cell phone was in the area of a tower near the bottom line bar could
00:44:18
could he have already been in a riding shotgun in a vehicle driving away from the bottom line bar at that time or or
00:44:25
or away from the area of the bottom line yes that would put him at Longacre Lane right around the 1041 Peri time
00:44:35
period if time of the murder you know I'm thinking that late at night that late at night he's there's
00:44:44
probably little to no traffic at all of Toledo's any I mean Columbus is a much bigger city than Toledo and it's a it's
00:44:50
damn near a ghost town at 10 o'clock at night on a Sunday you you can move pretty quick through our city at 10 p.m.
00:44:59
on a Sunday night and so could he had already been in a vehicle making its way there I
00:45:07
believe so because for all the people that that get on to police here and say look you use cell phone information to
00:45:14
put a suspect at a crime scene but when the cell phone information tells you that they were elsewhere you you dismiss
00:45:20
it and but the problem here is we we don't have to fully explain all of the cell
00:45:27
phone information you don't even have to get to that [ __ ] until after you fully
00:45:34
explain the DNA information the DNA puts him in the stob house if he cannot if that cannot be explained away or proven
00:45:43
to be incorrect then we don't even have to get to the cell phone information because
00:45:48
guess what I can hand my cell phone off to Destiny Madrid and she can make calls
00:45:52
and do walk around town with it and hop in cars and go to bars and have a great time with my cell phone while I'm across
00:46:00
town doing unspeakable acts inside of that home yeah and I think the problem with law enforcement is what is the DNA
00:46:08
connected to cuz his his DNA is not found on the victims it's not found on other items in the house it's found on a
00:46:17
cigarette butt and so he's going well I can explain that away because that item could have been brought to the scene
00:46:26
so this Pro Bowl Alibi has bothered me big time and and and here's why Captain you and I are
00:46:36
very big fans of the NFL in fact last night we must have traded a dozen texts in the middle of a game and guess what
00:46:43
we're watching we're both watching the same game neither of us really care for either we're not big fans of either the
00:46:49
teams playing we're just very much into the NFL uh do you give do you care at all about the Pro Bowl how when's the
00:46:58
last time have you watched a pro bowl no never I cannot recall the last time I watched a pro bowl I did watch
00:47:06
one I just don't know when last time I watched one captain and I can't even put a date on it but this
00:47:12
will tell you about how long ago it was I was in gardo pizza on Broadway yeah and the mo I thought the most
00:47:20
entertaining part of the Pro Bowl was the Dr Pepper halftime uh extra point kick or field goal kick if the if that
00:47:29
if that civilian kicked the ball through the uprights that they won like a million dollars or something right and
00:47:37
that that description to you now our listeners don't know any of what that means but wouldn't that you believe that
00:47:44
that's probably 20 years ago that this really big NFL fan watched a pro bowl the reason why I have a problem with
00:47:51
this Pro Bowl thing is that Johnny was at his friend's house watching the Pro Bowl that is is not in question what's
00:47:57
in question is what was Sam Williams doing that night and is his Alibi of being at a bar watching the Pro Bowl
00:48:03
does it hold any weight and I've cannot believe that there is a story out there in 2011 that two people of this young of
00:48:16
an age both that care so much to watch the Pro Bowl now could I be wrong absolutely but but but in his defense it
00:48:23
could be eyes at a bar and the pro bow happened to be on right proba he probably didn't care that much
00:48:32
he probably is like you whatever happened at halftime was probably more important than the the whole entire game
00:48:39
exactly but people cite the specificity of his Alibi the details he's able to provide
00:48:48
just not not just what he was doing but here's my movements and here's the details and here's three other
00:48:53
individuals to back this all up people people highlight that and say that it is suggestive that this Alibi is is
00:49:05
true and I agree with that thought however I the wrench that I want to throw into that to this
00:49:15
equation is I spoke to several people that know Johnny that knew Johnny very well and I said he told you he was at a
00:49:24
friend's house watching the Pro Bowl yes he even told me that the two friends he
00:49:28
was watching it with I said we know that Tiffany Williams was in constant contact
00:49:34
based off of the phone records with Johnny that night are you of the opinion that if asked what he was doing that
00:49:41
Johnny would offer up that information to Tiffany Williams would he offer up that information to Anthony Watson who
00:49:48
we know he was in contact with that night and everybody said yes he was Johnny was pretty much an open book hey
00:49:55
what are you doing doing oh I'm at so and so's house we're watching the Pro Bowl after this I'm going to go pick up
00:49:59
Lisa and we're going to head back to her place the reason why I'm I'm highlighting that Captain is because I
00:50:06
think that if Tiffany Williams wasn't at that home when they were killed or in the home that night that she had
00:50:14
knowledge of what was going on what took place inside of that home and we know that based off of her statement to the
00:50:20
family this is before anybody even arrives on the scene that she saw that the place been ransacked which could not
00:50:27
physically have happened unless she was in the home or had knowledge from someone who was in the home at that that
00:50:33
night yeah so just to just to make that perfectly clear for everybody listening Tiffany Williams tells the parents
00:50:40
before the cops or anybody shows up at the crime scene that the house was rans sacked when the police get there and the
00:50:47
police go there multiple times they have they find no evidence to give them probable calls to enter that property if
00:50:55
they would have been able to see through any window that the house was possibly ransacked they would have had probable
00:51:02
cause and they would have been been able to enter that property and that never happened correct and because they never
00:51:09
entered the home they they couldn't because nobody could see inside the house so then she has to have knowledge
00:51:15
she's pered knowledge that that nobody else was at that at that scene at that time so she's privy to that knowledge
00:51:24
prior to going to the scene with the cops and and the parents now the reason why I'm bringing
00:51:32
that all up is because I believe that there were a couple people one if not maybe two people that were keeping tabs
00:51:40
on Johnny that day and that night whoever wanted to carry this out they wanted to carry it out in the stob
00:51:48
home and they wanted Johnny to be there and so if Johnny so willing L offered up this information I'm over at
00:51:57
so and so's house watching the Pro Bowl I won't be home until I pick up Lisa when she gets off work at
00:52:05
10: if we have multiple people telling us that he would willingly give up that information to others there's no reason
00:52:12
to not believe that he may have told Tiffany Williams that that he may have told Zack that who he was in contact
00:52:18
with and and or that he may have told Anthony Watson that and the reason why I'm saying that Captain is
00:52:25
because guess what if I'm the third party if I'm the muscle if I'm Sam Williams Cameo pedway and I'm waiting on
00:52:36
the call waiting on the call for you to tell me it's go time we got to get to the
00:52:42
Longacre Lane it's not that far of a stretch to believe that there was another phone call or communication
00:52:48
where someone says he's not at home he's at he's watching the Pro Bowl and if I'm the muscle waiting on
00:52:56
that and now 8 months later I need an alibi what's one thing that I know that took place that night the Pro Bowl
00:53:02
because I remember being told oh we G we're gonna have to wait he's busy watching the Pro Bowl and I I think that
00:53:09
that somewhere in this maybe this Alibi the Genesis of this Alibi started with information that Sam Williams had before
00:53:20
Lisa and Johnny were killed now we're going to get into some phone call information here and this is the time in
00:53:29
the show look we're we're not a kid-friendly show it's e for explicit not e for everyone rated on this show uh
00:53:37
and so if you got young ones in the vehicle or you don't want to hear words yourself uh it's time to e muff up uh
00:53:43
like they say in Old School ear muff up but uh I forgot about first of all muffs
00:53:50
ear muffs here here's something that's going to make Alex not look so good okay so she's in a squabble with somebody
00:54:01
else somebody not related to this case at all but this person gives this information to the police and this is
00:54:09
not going to look good for her she's in a squabble with somebody else and this is about a week
00:54:15
after okay let's here we go I here's I found the information in my notes here so we're talking about alexandraa Keno
00:54:22
her possible involvement and and in fact when police are talking to Anthony Watson Anthony Watson tells the police
00:54:30
that he believes that Johnny bot perco setes off of someone named Peanut and he knows
00:54:37
who peanut is Peanut's a nickname but he gives Peanut's real name to the police and he says look I believe that from
00:54:43
what I've heard Johnny owed peanut some money maybe even a bunch of money but the police are like well do you think
00:54:50
that peanut would would be involved to would get take foral retaliation or go to collect his money and Watson says no
00:54:59
I don't think that peanut would retaliate even if there was money that was owed because he knew of several
00:55:06
other individuals that were still alive and well that owed money to peanut right
00:55:11
and this is this is months after this is about two months after the the homicides
00:55:16
now what what will what Anthony Watson does Supply police with is that he says that he heard that Alexander
00:55:25
Kino was involved uh ap's ex-girlfriend so AP is another nickname he tells police that he
00:55:34
believes that there are at least four people involved and then what we end up finding out is that
00:55:42
this Alexander Keno the woman who's the common denominator determined to be the common
00:55:48
denominator by police less than 24 hours after the bodies were discovered we find out that she sent a
00:55:56
text message to someone that she's in a squabble with that says I do this [ __ ] fam watch the news
00:56:06
[ __ ] [ __ ] get duct taped and tied up and left for dead that's her text message to somebody else that she's
00:56:13
in a fight with and it it has beef with less than 24 hours after the bodies were
00:56:18
discovered yeah this is her bragging that she killed them this is a confession yeah so Anthony son tells
00:56:25
authorities of a conversation that he had weeks before he's picked up in question with a woman who is not
00:56:32
identified in any reporting source that I could find he says the woman in this conversation placed herself at the scene
00:56:39
of the crime he also alleges that Sam Williams and another man named Dro and a second woman were present at the murder
00:56:48
the for had broken into the stob residence seeking a safe that was rumored to be in the
00:56:53
home and one thing we need to be clear about him potentially implicating multiple people
00:57:00
in this crime Watson does tell police admits to fearing for his own safety and that of his families now the other phone
00:57:09
calls Captain Sam Williams once he's in jail waiting trial you know they record those calls well Sam makes a phone call
00:57:20
and and tells a relative I [ __ ] up I'm going to be in here for a long time now
00:57:27
he will go to trial Sam will go to trial and at his trial this is presented by the prosecution as an admission of
00:57:35
guilt and he says no that's simply taken out of context there was also another possible
00:57:42
incriminating phone call that is made this is in April of 2012 this is when Sam Williams still in jail waiting
00:57:51
trial calls Steven pedway Steven pway is is the brother of the alleged accomplice
00:57:57
Cameo pedway who's also arrested for the double murder and on this call Sam says
00:58:02
to Stephen quote that was supposed to be me and you but you know little bro had to step up to take your spot man you
00:58:11
know he didn't do it right like I would have done it I'm sorry Stephen responds to Sam saying you know he didn't do it
00:58:18
right like I would have done it to which Sam replies no but he did it good enough
00:58:22
to make something happen well they all sound like real pieces of [ __ ] so this sounds like it was supposed to be
00:58:28
Stephen Cameo older brother who was super tight the everything I could find Captain suggests that Sam and Steph were
00:58:36
like best friends right and that Cameo is Steven's little brother and that he was that Sam and
00:58:43
Cameo were tight as well and a lot of times the three of them would would run together but I think that Steven may
00:58:51
have been locked up for something at this time and so if somebody was looking to hire
00:58:56
muscle Sam and Cameo got the job not Sam and stepen and so again the prosecution at
00:59:04
trial is saying this is further indication that he's implicating himself in these crimes and Cameo as well but
00:59:13
Sam says look this was is was taken out of context as well that this was this was in reference to
00:59:21
their the three of them were kind of running this prostitution ring together and we know that because all
00:59:29
three of them had been arrested at different times for promoting prostitution right and I know that a lot
00:59:34
of people don't like to hear that word but that's that's the term that's the word and term that's used in the charges
00:59:40
so that's what yeah that's the Leal that's the term we're using yes so he says that that is he's referencing like
00:59:49
Cameo was doing a good job helping us run this ring but he wasn't making enough he wasn't making enough money he
00:59:54
should have been making more money he was doing good but he could have done it better well I mean we can't we can't sit
01:00:01
here and claim to know 100% that that's not truth but it also seems pretty logical that he may have been referring
01:00:08
to the murders as well in these conversations so even though that we believe that there's four maybe more
01:00:16
people involved U maybe even a lookout person maybe a contact person for all the
01:00:22
different individuals law enforcement is able to charge and bring two individuals
01:00:28
to trial they're not going to be tried together but they're going to be tried at the same
01:00:37
time and in the same courtroom and the weird thing here is they're using that same evidence against both of these
01:00:43
individuals the cigarette butt uh Sam Williams DNA found on it Cameo pedway DNA found on that same cigarette butt
01:00:49
that was found at the crime scene now police were trying to move on other suspects as well especially Alex or
01:00:59
Alexandra but I think that they believed once they had this evidence that put Sam
01:01:04
and Cameo at the crime scene that that those two would start talking unfortunately neither of them
01:01:10
confess to anything and did not implicate anybody else in the crimes either and then to further complicate
01:01:17
issues Cameo pedway his case gets tossed so the judge says that the only evidence they have on
01:01:28
Cameo is that cigarette butt nothing else nobody's saying that they even heard that he was there he's not
01:01:34
implicated himself in any form or fashion where with Sam Williams they have other evidence against him so the
01:01:41
judge tosses pay's case for lack of evidence don't get on to the judge about this because if if you take came oped
01:01:52
away to trial and he's found innocent you can't try him again the judge isn't saying Cameo pedway didn't do this the
01:01:58
judge is saying you need to have a stronger case against this individual to have it in my
01:02:04
courtroom but the judge determines that there's enough evidence against Sam Williams and part of this evidence is
01:02:12
those phone calls part of the evidence is individuals saying that they had heard that Sam Williams was
01:02:18
involved and then part of the evidence also will be what the captain hates the most a jail house
01:02:25
snitch so this individual his last name is uh Yingling so it's Eric Yingling he will testify in
01:02:35
court that not only did Williams confess the to the crimes to him that that Williams also provided a lot of detail
01:02:44
about the murders right and that he had information given to him by Sam Williams
01:02:53
that would have only been known to The Killers or law enforcement and part of that information
01:03:02
was something at the crime scene remember we talked about that expensive jewelry in the home was not taken by the
01:03:10
perpetrators and also all of that Iraqi currency that I believe there was like $4,500 in several different envelopes
01:03:18
that was all Iraqi currency and that Sam Williams had told Yingling something to the effect of you
01:03:26
know Yingling when when when Williams is telling him about the crimes according to Yingling you know he wants to know
01:03:33
well did you ever find the safe or how much money did you find in the house and Williams tells him well the only large
01:03:40
amount of money that we found in the home was the Saddam Hussein money that we couldn't do anything with so we left
01:03:46
it and at the time at the trial it was believed that that was information that would have only been known to the stobs
01:03:53
to police and to the killers and they use this information against Sam Williams along with the
01:04:01
other information that we've already gone through now I do want to be clear here that it was late it's there has
01:04:09
been later the accuracy of of that information only being privy to the killer in law enforcement has been
01:04:18
called into question for good reason because I believe it was CNN I know that it was rep reped I believe it was CNN
01:04:25
that reported that the Iraqi currency foreign currency was found in the home so somebody watching that news clip
01:04:35
or following the case may have known about that information and could have fed it to the jail house Nitch Yingling
01:04:46
so again two people charged basically based off the same evidence but in one of the cases they're not going to be be
01:04:53
able to use that evidence so what is the outcome of these two trials well after hearing from 27
01:05:00
Witnesses and reviewing more than 130 exhibits in a 4-day trial we have a jury of 12 who find Sam Williams guilty
01:05:09
of two counts of murder two counts of kidnapping and a single count of aggravated
01:05:15
burglary and he ultimately will get sentenced to two life sentences without the possibility of
01:05:27
parole So eventually the death penalty goes away in this case now we do know that
01:05:35
the families or at least the Clark family were big advocates for the death penalty in this situation yeah which is
01:05:45
which is understandable in this situation now where the case sits today Captain is Samuel Williams is still in prison
01:05:54
and the evidence and what some of the people were telling police is suggestive that there were four persons in the home
01:06:02
that night if not more and so who were these other three and even if you include Cameo pedway
01:06:11
whose DNA was found at the scene you still have two people that are not known not identified never been
01:06:20
charged so the the outstanding theories on the days are the The Intruders broke into the St home on on the night of
01:06:29
January 30th 2011 looking for the safe looking for any money or even possible drugs that might have been in the home
01:06:39
and that they were so there was unfortunately there was considerable damage to both Lisa and Johnny that is
01:06:54
not from killing them so one could believe that maybe they're being tortured or they're being hit they're
01:07:02
being assaulted to provide information where's the safe where's the safe where's the money where's the
01:07:09
money um so the way that the theories work is that either they were intentionally killed or
01:07:19
that the bags were used as some form of torture to try to get information from them or torture to send a message
01:07:27
to them in retaliation for something else and that one of them actually one of them accidentally
01:07:35
died and then they had to kill the other one that's why we talked about early in
01:07:40
this case that that the coroner could not sort out who died first and there there was concern with
01:07:49
that inside of this case in the investigation the other theory is that based off of
01:07:57
the interviews with Johnny's friend Tony Anthony Watson Tony or ton Watson that he was telling the truth
01:08:05
that Anthony Watson told police that a woman in their Circle named Alexander kuseno yeah that witch who had a history
01:08:13
of having altercations with Johnny before the murders that she was involved and she
01:08:22
got others involved and were responsible for the murders some things that occurred to me
01:08:33
in this case captain that we talked about offline the other day you know why would Tiffany make
01:08:39
those calls why would she get other people involved after the fact if she set everybody up if she was making
01:08:45
arrangements and I said one it would be to explain away why she made the 1041 call at all
01:08:52
right but there's a a couple of other reasons why she may have made these calls could she have provided
01:08:58
Transportation could she have been a driver to and from and that's how she got the knowledge of the house being
01:09:03
ransacked before she should have had that before anybody else had that knowledge or did she offer up a vehicle
01:09:11
that could be used and she wasn't the driver we do know that prior according to her own story before going over to
01:09:18
the St home that night that she stopped by another individual's house and was there for about an hour and that she
01:09:23
took a borrowed vehicle with her it was not Zach's vehicle it was not her vehicle did she simply go over there
01:09:30
and hide out for an hour or so and let somebody some other peoples that were at that location use her
01:09:38
vehicle or use that vehicle that wouldn't have ties to the individuals occupying the vehicle
01:09:47
right because again it didn't belong to Tiffany or Zack and here's the other thing for the call the late night call
01:09:54
that ends up getting in communication with Johnny Clark's parents I've wondered one of the persons
01:10:01
they tried to call well one of the people they did speak to remember Zach called Johnny's lifelong friend
01:10:09
Reuben Ruben is the only reason why this thing gets back to the Clarks at all and
01:10:16
the Clarks showing up that night calling the police causes all kinds of problems
01:10:20
for Tiffany and Zach if they're trying to hide something and all the people responsible in this
01:10:27
case I've been wondering if they were really concerned they would figure out how to call the
01:10:33
Clarks they weren't calling the Clarks they weren't asking Reuben how do we get in touch with the Clarks no they
01:10:40
were talking to Reuben they were trying to get Reuben to ride over to the stob house with
01:10:46
them AER of Johnny and Lisa I'm starting to wonder were they trying to get this dude back to this crime scene and set
01:10:56
him up is the muscle still sitting there do we have Sam Williams and Cameo pedway
01:11:01
split in a cigarette in the in the closed garage over at the St home while they're waiting for Tiffany and Zach to
01:11:08
try to bring this innocent back to the home and maybe maybe he tell us where yeah no I think they may have wanted to
01:11:17
off him and try to make it look like he was responsible for the murders right remember we got the missing knives from
01:11:25
the home what if they would have you know sorry but what if we would have made some postmortem stab wounds and and
01:11:34
then put some knives on this Reuben kid yeah uh it it's it's weird that they got
01:11:40
anybody else involved and I and I I applaud you for pointing that out early on in this case Captain because it
01:11:47
doesn't make sense that if Tiffany was and Zach were involved or knew what happened that they would alert anybody
01:11:53
unless their conscience got to them in a in the short course of two hours but I don't think that it did I
01:12:00
think that these calls and alerting other people was to either make something else happen set up this set
01:12:07
somebody else up and frame somebody else or to explain away their prior actions that they know they cannot hide
01:12:15
the data the phone records will always be there so you need to explain them away now regarding Tiffany Williams in
01:12:23
December of 2014 somebody shot Fires at somebody fired shots at Tiffany Williams now she
01:12:30
wasn't hit but what we end up learning is that John and M Clark Johnny's parents they
01:12:40
are arrested a short period of time after these shots are fired at Tiffany Williams and they're Char they're
01:12:46
charged with attempted assault really on her wow and there's no doubt that they that
01:12:54
that John Clark fired those shots at Tiffany Williams they they have been an open book about this they said look she
01:13:02
was involved in the killing of our son and Lisa St we lost our damn Minds she was never charged with
01:13:10
anything and we we went out looking for her one night and fired some shots at her so they've they've been they've been
01:13:18
clean and clear about this now they they both went to to prison for it they're both out now now but they this is not
01:13:25
something that they hide from this is not something that they deny in fact this is something that they are shouting
01:13:31
from the mountaintops there were other people involved in the murder of these two young individuals and they've nobody
01:13:36
else has been charged nobody else has been sentenced nobody else is in prisoned but this one
01:13:44
dude yeah it's a way of putting fear into other individuals and maybe they thought
01:13:50
well she is not that bright and maybe she's the weakest length and if we could scare her enough maybe she
01:13:58
starts telling the cops names and and breaking down exactly how this all went down and why it went
01:14:07
down well and another update remember Anthony Watson Tony or tone Watson who told police that he had a conversation
01:14:14
with an unidentified woman who placed herself at the crime scene who also implicated Sam Williams and alleged that
01:14:21
two others a man and another woman were also involved and guess what the DNA at the
01:14:28
scene is telling us that that this information could be correct that there was a a female perpetrator involved at
01:14:36
least one female perpetrator if not two and we know that there were at least two
01:14:42
different male dnas found because we know they charged but then dropped the charge against Cameo so Watson's
01:14:50
information to police could be correct and and we had mentioned that this information his cooperation with police
01:14:58
he he told them that he he was afraid for his life and for that of his families after providing this
01:15:04
information they do hook him up his his felony count that he was facing on a on a completely unrelated case was reduced
01:15:12
to a misdemeanor uh and he only ended up receiving probation for that uh when he
01:15:18
plad guilty to that charge we also don't know if if the prosecutor or law enforcement had intended to drop it to a
01:15:26
misdemeanor all all along and this was just icing on the cake you get his cooperation for something you were
01:15:32
already going to do anyway but that information his cooperation may have come at a high price he was killed he
01:15:40
was fatally shot outside of his apartment in September of 2018 so an unknown as salent or asants
01:15:50
gun him down near his apartment in Toledo Ohio he shot he's shot in the leg he calls
01:15:58
911 to report that he's been shot and while he's still laying there waiting on Emergency Services to show up he calls
01:16:06
his mother and he later dies at the hospital and he's he's dying on the phone call to
01:16:15
his mom he was only 30 years old at the time of his death and as far as I could find Captain there's officially there's
01:16:22
been no suspect identified and his murder remains unsolved Cameo pedway who's who got lucky and the judge tossed
01:16:32
his case in this double homicide he gets picked up in 2012 for beating up a girlfriend he's convicted of that charge
01:16:40
he gets six years in prison for that he gets out and he's not out for long because in
01:16:46
2020 he's accused in a shooting a gun assault that takes place now I looked for an update on his case
01:16:57
and as far as I could find the information that's most up to date is 2023 February right and I could not
01:17:05
figure out if he had been convicted of that charge or if he was still waiting trial now in the end Alexandra
01:17:16
kuseno did submit DNA refused to take a polygraph but did agree to give her DNA to the detectives we know that there had
01:17:25
been unknown male and female DNA found on Johnny sweat inside of Johnny sweatpants Pockets we talked about the
01:17:32
the removing of the wallet but what we do know is that when this DNA comes back and it doesn't match Alexander Keno's
01:17:41
police decide to not charge her with any crime it looks to me though as if she remains a suspect strong suspect in this
01:17:50
case now how do we solve this case I think this case is very solvable and it helps that
01:17:57
you have one of the persons responsible already in prison but I don't know if this dude Williams is ever going to talk
01:18:04
if if he's going to spend the rest of his life in prison he doesn't want to be labeled a
01:18:08
snitch so how do you solve this case I think it's there's three easy answers here one or all three could lead you to
01:18:17
the the answers you're seeking one is as we've said a couple times in this case subpoena all the phone records
01:18:23
right at the very least you need Johnny Sam Williams Tiffany Williams Anthony Watson and Alexander keno and probably
01:18:31
fat Zachs as well and Lisa strs if you had all those phone records and you put them together cut and paste those babies
01:18:39
and put them into sequential order you might have a much more clear understanding of that night the other
01:18:47
per the other item that I would work heavily on if I'm an investigator is identifying this individual that is
01:18:52
refer to as Dro we don't know this person's real name but he comes up multiple times from multiple different
01:19:00
sources when people were talking to police Dro even Anthony Watson said that Dro may have been one of the people
01:19:06
responsible do you know his real name no now look I'm just I'm just some dude sitting in a garage but here's where I
01:19:14
go with this Dro we know is slang for good marijuana or pot I know this by my limited knowledge
01:19:22
of music right Dr is used by people like Eminem 50 Cent Kanye West and the late and great Nate Dog and many many more so
01:19:30
could Dr be reference to somebody that has really good weed that's selling really good stuff in
01:19:36
2011 2010 the other thing too that I would push on is Drew Warren we know per the court records and
01:19:48
per conversations with detectives that Tiffany Williams hung out with an individual named Drew Warren that
01:19:56
night when we're talking about nicknames Dro doesn't sound like too far of a stretch from Drew to me
01:20:03
no and then the final thing here Captain is obvious the obvious identify the other DNA evidence found at the scene
01:20:12
per reports I don't know the exact number but it's been reported heavily that about a dozen to possibly even as
01:20:18
high as two dozen people have submitted their DNA DNA when asked by police and we know that the the persons that
01:20:26
submitted DNA they don't match the DNA of the perpetrators that was found at the crime scene we also know that that
01:20:33
when they checked it with cotus the only two names that came back was pway and Williams and they charged both of them
01:20:39
one of them's in prison right so it's identifying these other sources of DNA now we know that the DNA didn't come
01:20:47
from Alexandra kuseno do we let her off the hook not so fast my friend I think that she could still be on the
01:20:55
hook for this and and not have left her DNA at the scene or if she did they didn't find it at the scene if she's
01:21:02
involved you're going to need other persons to turn on her and police haven't moved off of her fully yet uh
01:21:09
she's gone on to commit some pretty terrible crimes or be accused of committing some other possible crimes
01:21:17
well also in this case you get too many people involved you get people starting to talk
01:21:23
just cuz they feel like they're safe or that law enforcement can't get to them and the streets will get to you and
01:21:31
we've seen that already happen and take place in this case well and I want to throw out a
01:21:38
challenge to the Lucas County Sheriff's Department who were the lead on this case I do think they did a lot of good
01:21:45
work in this case uh especially when it came to rounding up some individuals and
01:21:50
questioning them we know that they did good work by calling falling in BCI to secure the scene and come up with
01:21:55
physical evidence and forensics in this case that that ultimately led to an arrest and a conviction but I don't
01:22:04
here's the thing Lucas County when Sam William sits there and he answers all those questions he talks
01:22:13
to you that whole damn time he believes I'm smarter than these cops and you thought that when you told
01:22:22
him we found your DNA at the scene he would crack and he' sing like a bird and he
01:22:28
didn't he sat there and he still denied knowing anybody denied ever being there and so we sit here all of these
01:22:37
years later and he does look like the smart one because here's where the case stands
01:22:43
the police know based off of the physical evidence that other individuals were there that night and responsible
01:22:50
for what happened to these two young people they are not locked up none of those
01:22:55
other people are locked up so Williams was smarter that day and you're letting until you lock up
01:23:04
those other individuals you're letting him win he's beat you Alexander Keno who who you
01:23:10
interviewed multiple times and she sits there acting like she's smarter than the
01:23:14
detectives if she was involved she outsmarted you and I'm challenging the Lucas County
01:23:21
Sheriff's Office office to solve this case 100% because what they have said publicly they're talking out of both
01:23:29
sides of their mouths and I don't like it in 2021 Mike Navar the Lucas County Sheriff
01:23:37
says to the families publicly says to the families of Lisa and Johnny that he and his office are committed to getting
01:23:44
Justice for their loved ones to solving this case and bringing all that are responsible and holding them
01:23:51
responsible that's not happened we're over two years later after that statement that's not happened the other
01:23:57
statement that's come out though Captain well do the genealogy research on the DNA that you
01:24:04
collected at the scene of the of the perpetrators of the suspects and the Lucas County Sheriff's office has said
01:24:10
we don't have the funds for that we can't afford to do that so you're going to let the bad guys win over something
01:24:17
as silly as money you know you you point out to the public plenty of time these poor kids were killed for $45 or or less
01:24:25
than $200 or whatever it was you reference money you reference their not being a safe in the house and maybe
01:24:32
money was the motive and now we're now we're referencing money as an excuse that this thing has not been solved
01:24:38
completely well it's not just Justice for the family or Justice for the victims but it's also these are these
01:24:45
individuals that were involved in this crime or animals and they need to be pulled off the streets not in in the
01:24:52
society because if they're if they're in society there there's a chance that this
01:24:59
would happen again to other victims over basically nothing and you can't afford the funding well
01:25:08
there's organizations that will help you get the funding this kind of this kind of work
01:25:16
Captain would take approximately six to eight grand per profile so if there were
01:25:22
three other individuals involved we're talking at most even conservatively let's on the
01:25:29
higher end about $25,000 to completely solve this thing and and here's that's not a whole lot of money and I get it
01:25:37
different Counties have different funding for different investigations and different resources so I'm not faulting
01:25:43
them for not having the resources I'm faulting them for what you just said not accepting the help of others that can
01:25:50
help you clear that hurdle of not having the funding and who were these others individuals CC Moore world-renowned
01:25:58
genetic genealogist who publicly offered up her services to Lucas County to help
01:26:05
them solve this mystery of the unknown DNA profiles that were found to this day Lucas County's not
01:26:13
taken her up on that offer we know that she solved some of the some very big high-profile cases in this country she's
01:26:20
offering to help you with her services and that's not been taken so you don't need funds for cc
01:26:27
more okay and then on top of it Captain points out yes there are groups okay so we have Toledo cares is an advocacy
01:26:35
group it's a community group that works with law enforcement to assist in bringing Justice to murder victims in
01:26:39
their families they're a pro police organization in the Toledo community for the past seven decades there this isn't
01:26:48
just something that was born 10 minutes ago seven decades they've they've been a
01:26:54
part of the Toledo community Toledo cares has agreed to use their considerable local and National
01:27:02
connections to help offer additional resources in this case in this investigation and I can tell you this
01:27:08
true crime garage we have offered our assistance in several other cases yes does a lot of that come through the
01:27:17
porch light project of course but that's s at least three Ohio cases that we've positively identified
01:27:28
DNA through the porch light project well we know for fact in a couple of these cases sorry in a couple of these cases
01:27:35
True Crime garage damn near funded the whole entirety of the case and we're currently
01:27:43
working sorry we're currently working with law enforcement in an out of state case so now you have CC Moore Toledo
01:27:52
cares True Crime garage I know that you have WTO the news station up there that have
01:27:59
have continue to broadcast this story even all of these years later who have attempted to rally the
01:28:07
troops and and get the community involved this does not have to be Lucas County Sheriff's Office going this
01:28:14
alone this this we've rallied the troops it's a whole community that wants to help Lucas County Sheriff's Office has
01:28:22
solved this thing and guess what at the end of the day we help you Lucas County we help you Sheriff's Office and you get
01:28:29
to stand up at the podium and you get to take all of the praise for solving this case
01:28:37
once you finally do it yeah and when the and when the crispy Colonel is saying True Crime garage it's not just
01:28:49
the colonel and the captain it's all the amazing listeners that have donated to the porch like project and if we if they
01:28:57
came to us and said well it's going to be this much money we' do a call to action and we know that we have the the
01:29:05
support of the listeners that would raise that money and then Justice would be served not just for the victims and
01:29:12
the families but for that community and for the whole state of Ohio the beer fund has put many a cold
01:29:21
beer in the old garage fridge but it's also sent a lot of dollars to the National Center for missing and
01:29:26
exploited children it's provided a K9 dog uh a can9 officer for a jurisdiction a sheriff's department down in the great
01:29:36
state of Florida it's identified several victims and suspects and perpetrators of
01:29:43
crimes through the porch light project and as said we're now working with law enforcement on an outof State case as
01:29:49
well so every dollar count and we're making sure that it counts and it doesn't just go to the the garage fridge
01:29:56
all the time look anybody with information in this case please come forward there's still some puzzle pieces
01:30:03
that need to be sorted out in this case I believe it's very solvable we've pointed out the reasons why it's
01:30:09
solvable and how it can be solved so if you have information and this is one thing we need to talk about here just
01:30:15
briefly before we let everybody go here Captain is it when you have a homicide investigation time is a detectives enemy
01:30:24
in the early stages of the investigation time was certainly the enemy for detectives in this case as well had they
01:30:32
had that DNA evidence days or a couple weeks after the murders rather than eight months
01:30:38
later they may have had a different line of questioning when they were talking to
01:30:41
all these individuals time is the enemy for a case when it's fresh when it's new
01:30:47
cold cases time is a detective's friend and that is because people change Lifestyles change living situations
01:30:57
change people may not be afraid of somebody today that they were afraid of in 2011 or
01:31:05
2012 right and one thing that has changed significantly in this case a very violent dangerous individual Samuel
01:31:12
Williams is locked up for good they threw away the damn key he ain't getting out so if he was stopping or his
01:31:20
presence or the fear of Sam Williams was stopping you or preventing you from talking
01:31:25
before you don't have to worry about him no more you can go to the police and you
01:31:31
can tell them look this is why I didn't come forward because I was afraid for my
01:31:36
life nobody's going to blame you for that now so if anybody out there has information please come forward please
01:31:42
tell us what you know please call Crimestoppers at 41 9255 1111 or you can call the detectives
01:31:50
Bureau at at 419 213- 4917 or if you don't want to talk to law enforcement you can reach out to True
01:31:58
Crime garage our contact information is on our website you can also reach out to
01:32:03
a person that was very valuable in helping us put together this case his name is Brian Dugger he's somebody that
01:32:08
true crime garage worked with on the Nancy eagleson case he's a brilliant investigative reporter for WT L and you
01:32:17
can reach Brian at B Dugger DG r at wt.com [Music] want to thank you so much for joining us
01:32:35
here in the garage each and every week and thanks for sharing our show on social media do we have any recommended
01:32:43
reading for the beautiful listeners this week Captain we are recommending it came
01:32:48
from Ohio by James rener a little Halloween action for you for you if you will good for Halloween so turn on the
01:32:54
NightLight lock your door and close the window blinds join investigative reporter James rener as he looks into 13
01:33:02
Tales of mysterious creepy and unexplained events all from the Buckeye state including the giant lovelin frog
01:33:10
the bloodthirsty Melon Heads of Kirtland and the Werewolf of defiance don't forget about the Moth Man of the Ohio
01:33:17
River and the UFO that inspired Close Encounters of the Third Kind and many more check out it came from Ohio you'll
01:33:26
find that great title and many more on our recommended page at true Crim garage.com and until next week be good
01:33:33
be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter