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On Mind of a Monster, The Hollywood Ripper, uncover the life and crimes of serial killer Michael Gargiulo, who
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stalks and kills his neighbors in Los Angeles throughout the 2000s. Across six episodes, hear from friends and
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acquaintances of Gargiulo, along with investigators and experts close to the case as they recount what happened, how
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he was caught, and where his trial stands today. Listen to Mind of a Monster, The Hollywood Ripper, wherever
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you get your podcasts. >> This is a test of the Reese's [music] broadcast system. If you're currently
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eating Reese's, this is just a test. Continue living the dream. If you aren't, oh boy, drop [music] what you're
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doing, go, get Reese's now. Do not stay calm. Push people out of the way. >> [music]
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[music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you're doing, thanks
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for listening. I'm your host Nick, and with me every week riding shotgun, ladies and gentlemen, here [music] is
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the Cap. >> Regulators, mound up. It's good to be seen [music] and good to see you. Thanks
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That's right, Garage Beer. How the Captain and I are not major shareholders in this company is beyond me, but we are
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We'll be banging on your ear balls all month long with the bonus [music] content and that is enough
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of the business. >> All right, everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some
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true crime. >> [music] [music] >> You know, being a killer is this far this is it's a step about this far from
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aggravated robbery. You know what I mean? Killing somebody. >> Yeah, but I heard this wasn't just
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killing somebody. You know what I'm saying? I heard this wasn't just running up to him, shooting
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him and leaving, you know what I'm saying? >> No. So, >> This is somebody that >> This is a killer. It's a killer, you
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know what I'm saying? It's a bad [ __ ] person, you know? Whoever did this is is
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a you >> whoever did this went there with the intent to kill somebody or do you think
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they were there looking for something and something went bad and went too far? >> It depends what story is true. It
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depends if if the story that I heard is true. >> What did you hear? >> I heard that they um
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What I hear all the details about that I've heard they got shot in the back of the head. I heard they got strangled. I
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heard they got Lisa's fingernails got ripped off. I heard um yeah, I heard all Lisa's
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fingernails were ripped off. They tortured her. I heard her head was almost severed off. I heard they got one
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shot in the back of I heard a whole bunch of different stories. You know, I mean, if they really pulled her
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fingernails off and almost severed her head off, they were coming there to kill them.
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You know what I'm saying? They weren't coming there >> All right, what if I told you that her
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fingernails weren't torn off and her head wasn't head wasn't severed? >> So that's that's [ __ ]
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>> Well, I'm not saying anything. I'm saying what >> And why were they Did they get shot or
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did they get suffocated? You know what I'm saying? >> Well, what the the coroner already
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reported how they died. >> it in the paper. Died of six asphyxiation. >> That's that's yeah, I yeah.
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>> Right? >> Yeah, [ __ ] >> So did you hear anything about anybody getting shot?
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>> I well I when it first happened I heard they got execution style in the back of
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the head. You know what I'm saying? That's what I the first story I heard. >> [music]
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[music] >> Autopsies are performed on both of our victims. Young adults, 21-year-old
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Johnny Clark, 20-year-old Lisa Straub. The autopsies, Captain, were conducted by a Dr. Pandy. He's a deputy coroner
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and forensic pathologist with the Lucas County Coroner's Office. The doctor notes their injuries and
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describes the manner in which the two had been bound. He declares the cause of death for both victims to be
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asphyxiation due to strangulation and suffocation. But, he is not able to confirm a
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specific time of death nor the order in which they died. Evidence is also collected from items of
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clothing that is worn by our two victims. And of note, Captain, we have DNA that is found on Johnny's
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sweatpants. Pandy states that Lisa's toxicology report showed that she had therapeutic
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levels of Vicodin and Percocet in her system. While Johnny's toxicology report showed he had minute levels of Percocet
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in his system and the presence of marijuana in his urine. There are sources out there, several, that report
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that both were known to have been casual and recreational drug users. This throws
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a whole 'nother wrench into our set of circumstances here in trying to determine
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who is responsible for killing these two young individuals. >> Yeah, because that could become a
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motive. And just to be clear to the listeners, the the clip that you guys heard in the trailer today was a a clip from
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an interrogation of Anthony Watson. >> That's correct. >> And he is basically telling law enforcement
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about a lot of the rumors that he heard. And obviously, in a very small town that is connected to a larger city,
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there's going to be a lot of rumors when it comes to a double homicide. >> Yeah, and he's, from my understanding,
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Captain, he's a little older than Johnny and may have been an associate of Johnny's. He's
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a bit of a thug or at least has a very even violent at times police background. He does seem, We've watched the entirety
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of that interview, and he does seem rather forthcoming with the detective. Now, I don't want to go as far to say
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that he is a suspect or not a suspect. In my opinion, what I do know is he was a suspect in the opinions of the
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police detectives. >> Well, again, when you have a autopsy that shows that these individuals were
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drug users, that creates a whole 'nother level of possible motives. You know, it's because
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people that do use drugs sometimes purchase large amounts of drugs. And so then when you
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have a situation where you have evidence or possible evidence that somebody goes into this house and kills these two
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individuals, but is clearly looking for something. >> Clearly. And that's that becomes another
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issue for the investigation. Because as we touched on yesterday and talked about, there was that rumor that was
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going around within some of these social circles that Johnny had either bragged that there was
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a a safe in the Strob family home that may have contained large amounts of cash.
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>> Right. >> And then the other version of that same rumor is that the Strobs had a lot of
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money. Okay, so look, if we're going to bring drugs into this, I want to be clear about something here.
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And this you can test this theory all day and night if you want. Come at me if you
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will. But here's the deal. When drug addicts are involved, they a lot of them, some of them, the violent
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ones, will do anything and go by any means necessary to get those drugs. Drugs take top priority for some of
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these individuals over money. Number one and number lives. Right. Number one and number two priority for
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that type of Look, we're not talking about everybody. We're not talking about all drug addicts. We're talking about a
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very specific small sample size of these individuals. Violent individuals, most of them with police backgrounds, with a
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record, with a history of violence. Those individuals, what we're talking about here is priority number one, and
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just like the captain pointed out, priority over your life and my life, priority number one is drugs.
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>> Yeah. >> Priority number two is money. Why is money priority number two? >> Cuz they can get drugs.
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>> They're going to use it to get drugs. And how do we know that priority number
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two is money? Because they always trade money for drugs. So, the thing here is now you got to
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wonder if they are recreational users, do we have a couple of other possible motives? One, did somebody believe that
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they could find a large quantity of drugs inside the home? I don't think that there's anything in Johnny's
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background or Lisa's background to suggest that people would expect to find large quantities of drugs in a home that
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doesn't even belong to either of these individuals. It belongs to Lisa Strob's parents.
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>> No, I I I understand that, but I The reason why I wanted to be clear on where this audio clip was coming from
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and to point out rumors. Lisa's family has a lot of money. Play the telephone game. That that turns
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into Oh, yeah, I I bet they have a safe with a bunch of money. That turns into somebody thinking that's fact.
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Or hey, you know, I heard Johnny and Lisa were going to have some people over on Saturday night, so they bought a lot
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of drugs for their party. I mean, it's not that hard for these stupid rumors in in a small town to get started.
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>> Well, and one thing I want to be clear of, too, is one thing that we're going to see as we
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get further into the suspects and to the where the investigation and evidence starts to direct law enforcement
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is to Toledo. Not to Holland. Okay? And to some of the people in Toledo, Holland is considered upper
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class. >> Right. >> And like you're pointing out here, Captain, is when you take somebody from
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lower class and you put them inside the home or tell them about this home of Lisa Straub's parents who are doing well
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for themselves, they go, "Oh, yeah, they got money. Yeah, I've seen their house." Or, "Oh,
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I've heard about it, they got money." They And it doesn't take a whole lot to imply that to somebody that comes from
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another side of the tracks. And what we're going to consistently see in this case, in this investigation,
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that all most, if not all, of those suspects are going to come from that other side of the tracks, if you will.
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>> Right. >> And so, now what we have going on here, Captain, is we have two good kids. Look,
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Lisa didn't have any money. She works at TGI Fridays. Nothing wrong with that, I
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was a server, I was a bartender for a long time. Good job. >> Still sometimes serves people.
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>> I enjoy it. And Johnny was getting ready to go to school. >> Right. >> And I'm not I'm unclear, he may have
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been between jobs at this time. School was going to be one of his main focus. And unfortunately,
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you know, when we have a funeral, it usually happens just days after one passes away.
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Johnny was supposed to start school to be a barber to he wanted to open up a barber shop and own a small business.
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>> Yeah. >> On that day that he was supposed to start school, instead it was his
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funeral. So, that's how close he was to we we talk about advancing ourselves in life.
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That's how close he was. If if you want to say he had a drug problem and you know Johnny, fine. I didn't know him.
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What what the evidence tells me is exactly what's reported in by most of these sources, that he had a
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recreational use problem and that he may have been working his way out of it. >> Yeah, and I can't throw shade on anybody
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because, you know, I I've had my vices in the past. >> Well, and they're kids. They're 20 and
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21. >> Yeah, so a lot of that time is it's a experimental phase. >> I got about 2 and 1/2 years that I can't
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even remember and it happened [laughter] in that same time period that we just talked about at my age.
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>> Well, we remember cuz we all tell the stories. >> Yeah, I was like uh like like Joe Walsh.
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>> [laughter] >> For about 2 years, 2 and 1/2 years. >> Yeah, I got about 22 years I can't
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remember. This is such a difficult case. I mean, I think it's I think some of it is because of the 911
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calls and and you just feel so bad for the family and what they actually had to witness
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because a lot of times the family doesn't actually witness the victims in the victim's state.
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>> Mhm. >> And you have these two young kids on the verge of starting their adult
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lives. And like we said, the evidence as far as drug use it's just it could be experimental phase, but this
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phase was connecting them with I think the wrong type of people. >> Yes, people that they normally would not
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associate with. >> Right. >> And and keep in mind, too, it's going to be persons when we say associate with
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we're going to see at one one factor repeated over and over in this investigation at people that they
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looked at. These may not even been close friends with our victims. These were people that
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their associate on their social circle, persons that were on the fringes of their social circle. Right. Are
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associates with the suspects. So, let's attempt to go down the trail that we believe the detectives would
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have followed here. So, Detective Kozak is going to be the lead investigator for
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much of this investigation. And of course, he's going to want to talk to Tiffany Williams.
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Right? So, remember >> we have a red flag with the with the mom saying, "Hey, look, this is this is all
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strange and suspicious. And if the mom is suspicious of the individual, that's where you need to
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start. That's obviously also who they were planning on hanging out with and they never met they never made that
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connection that day. >> Correct. So, so when the detective sits down with Tiffany Williams, she
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describes going to her friend Zach's house to obtain some pills. And while there, she says she called Johnny at
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10:41. This is that call that we've discussed at length here. And this is she says for the purpose of firming up
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their plans for that night. She states that Johnny picked up the phone, didn't say hello, says, "Bro, what are you
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doing?" or something to that effect. And then she says that the call drops, well, not necessarily drops, but
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Johnny hangs up saying he would call her back. He does not call back. She tells the detective that she discussed this
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call with Zach. And we know the outcome of this situation. We know that when she
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receives no response, at some point she and Zach drive out to Lisa's house. Now,
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how did they get in contact with Johnny's parents is what I'm going to want to know
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as the detective. And why do they go to reach out to Johnny's parents? They say it's because
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they were concerned and they couldn't get in touch with Johnny and Lisa. So, what will we learn, Captain? Is it Zach
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will reach out to an individual named Ruben Rowes. Now, Ruben, the reason why Zach wants to reach out
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to him is because he knows he and Tiffany know that Ruben is Johnny's best friend, like lifelong best
00:18:02
friend. >> He might know one, what's going on with Johnny, but if he doesn't know, he's
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going to know somebody that they can contact. >> Correct. So, now we learn that Tiffany
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and Zach do not know or possess the ability to get in touch with Johnny's family.
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Now, Ruben says, will tell police that Zach asked if they could pick him up and go to the Strob house with them.
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Now, Ruben says Ruben is is clean, okay? Ruben He's never had a drug problem. He
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doesn't have a police background. Doesn't have a record. No history of violence. He says, "Look, when this dude
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calls me, I know that Zach is a problem. I know that he has a a drug problem and I don't really know the guy very
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well, so I wasn't willing to go anywhere with them in the middle of the night." >> Right.
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>> Yeah, I was concerned about my friend. And so, then that is when Tiffany is forced to
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call Sherita because their first person they attempted to go to, Ruben, does not
00:19:07
want any involvement. Sherita then is the one that calls Johnny's parents. Okay? And again, remember Sherida is
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more of more a peer of Johnny's friends and people that would be of Johnny's age.
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She's much younger than Johnny's parents. Now, we have the parents at the scene and all that's
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going on that we already are aware about, but we know that police, the authorities took down Tiffany's
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information and Zach's contact information before allowing them to leave that night.
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The other thing here, Captain, is we've talked about the drugs. I want to circle
00:19:44
back to something real quick. The detectives, when they start talking to Johnny and Lisa's inner circle and then
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expanding outward from there, that's when they the police catch wind of this thought and this rumor that's
00:20:00
going around that there was a safe or maybe a large sum of money kept at the Straub home.
00:20:07
>> Right. >> So, now we have police working with a theory that makes a whole hell of a lot
00:20:11
of sense. A couple things we we can shrink our suspect pool very quickly here. There are things going on
00:20:21
socially that are telling us that one, it's very likely that the perpetrators would have
00:20:28
either known Johnny and or Lisa or would have known people that did know them. Because if we have people saying that
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Johnny bragged a couple of times or maybe just once about there being a safe or maybe the Straubs got a bunch of
00:20:44
money, it was one of his friends that heard that and they had to tell somebody else.
00:20:49
If it wasn't one of his inner circle that is responsible for what happened to these guys.
00:20:55
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the windows to the walls. Onward and [music] upward. >> Tall cans in the air. Cheers to the
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people in the back. >> So, when you have a a homicide, of course you want to look at the inner
00:23:35
circle, but but here we have something different. We have Johnny and Lisa were supposed to meet up with somebody.
00:23:43
To me, if I'm law enforcement, that's the first person that I'm questioning. And we don't know what type of person
00:23:49
this is. And like we said, if they're in a experimental phase with drugs, they're in experimental phase
00:23:56
with friends, and who is this Tiffany? And here's a little clip of her and they're calling it an interrogation,
00:24:04
but a questioning by law enforcement. I think this kind of shows you a little glimpse of who she is and her
00:24:12
her recall of the events that night. >> I want to go over that conversation again in detail.
00:24:18
>> fine. >> All right. You called Johnny on the phone. >> Mhm. >> How many times did it ring you think?
00:24:24
>> Um once or twice. >> Okay, one to two rings. >> Picked it right up. >> Mhm. >> You know it was Johnny.
00:24:33
>> Yes. >> How long of a pause before he said anything? >> He didn't say hello. >> All right, so he never said anything.
00:24:42
>> Never said hello. >> So, all right, so you're on the phone. >> Mhm. >> How long before you hear anything on the
00:24:49
phone? Did you What did you >> Like as soon as he picked it up, he didn't say hello to me, but he was
00:24:54
like, "Bro, what are you doing?" >> All right, I want to get this down again. Bro,
00:24:59
what are you doing? Okay. >> Okay, and he said that approximately three times. >> Okay.
00:25:09
>> Then the next >> let me give me his voice. Was it, "Bro, what are you doing?" or
00:25:14
"Bro, what are you doing?" >> Yeah, just like that. >> And he sounded pissed? >> Yeah.
00:25:18
>> Did he sound scared? >> No. Not at >> sounded pissed. >> Just pissed, yeah. >> All right, so you hear you hear, "Bro,
00:25:25
what are you doing?" three times. Johnny sounds pissed. >> Mhm. >> All right, then what he say?
00:25:29
>> Then the next thing he said was, "Who the hell are you?" >> How many times? >> Um once.
00:25:41
And then that's when I heard the other person in the background, but I couldn't hear what he was saying.
00:25:49
>> So you overheard a voice in the background? >> You sure it was a guy? >> Positive it was a guy.
00:25:59
>> Have you ever heard it before? >> No. Well, I really couldn't tell, you know what I mean, but
00:26:04
>> Okay. All right, so then what? >> Then he asked again, "Bro, what are you doing?" after he said, "Who are
00:26:13
>> After the three times he said it here, he said it again? >> Yeah, and that's when this guy was
00:26:17
talking, so that's why I couldn't hear him is because Johnny was saying, um "Bro, what are you doing?" once
00:26:24
again. >> All right. Did you hear anything in the background like a door close, footsteps? Did it
00:26:33
sound like Johnny was Did he sound pissed here again? >> Mhm. >> Did he sound pissed here?
00:26:39
>> Yeah. >> Did he sound like he was out of breath? >> No. >> Did he sound like he was scared or
00:26:43
nervous? >> No. >> Did he sound like he knew them people? >> Mhm. That's why I said I think that
00:26:51
whoever did it, he knew because you know, if you knew Johnny >> he How did he end the conversation with
00:26:59
you? >> He said, "I'm going to call you back." and hung up. >> Okay. Now >> No, he didn't give me a chance to talk
00:27:04
or anything. >> Okay, he just hangs up. He says he'll call you back. Okay, which means he
00:27:09
probably knows who's in the house. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Now, you call who? >> I didn't call
00:27:20
>> Call nobody. >> Who did you call to tell them that conversation with Johnny? >> Nobody. I just told Zach.
00:27:27
>> Okay, how did Johnny's mom find out about the phone conversation? >> Um after I had drove out to their house
00:27:34
and there was no response, I drove back. >> To Lisa's house? >> Well, after I left Lisa's house, I drove
00:27:40
back and I was like, "Well, maybe they're just ignoring us. We'll just drive around, look for them." And I
00:27:46
called my friend Sherita to get Ruben's number, which is Johnny's best friend. So that I could get in
00:27:53
contact Um [clears throat] well, see if Johnny could answer if he would answer the
00:27:58
phone to Ruben and then Ruben didn't get an answer, then we can get a hold of the
00:28:01
family and let the family know. Cuz I just thought maybe he was ignoring me. >> Why would you Why
00:28:07
Listen, listen, listen. Why with that conversation would you let somebody's family know
00:28:17
that hey, something's wrong? >> I wasn't calling to let them know something was wrong. I was calling to
00:28:24
let them know like, "Can you get him Will he pick up the phone to you?" Because like I He told me he'd call me
00:28:30
back. I didn't think nothing >> Was it because you were concerned? >> Yes, I was very concerned.
00:28:36
>> About what was going on? >> Yeah, because it was like no res- I wasn't getting no response cuz right
00:28:41
after I heard that, I called Lisa's phone. And there was no pick up. And then I called her a couple more
00:28:48
times, no answer. So, I text her like, "Are you okay?" And she didn't answer. Then, I kept
00:28:52
calling Johnny's phone. Zach said he was doing the same, also. And they wasn't picking up. So, that's
00:28:58
when I started calling, you know, his best friend to see if he would answer to his best friend. He was just [cough]
00:29:03
ignoring us because he didn't want to share pills or, you know what I mean? That's what I thought all it was.
00:29:10
>> That's very telling to me there, Captain. Here we have the detectives >> Telling. I think it's
00:29:15
>> [laughter] >> It's utter It's utter confusion to me. >> Thank you for saying that, because that
00:29:20
will prove a point that that I have for all of the beautiful listeners out there.
00:29:25
So, there's three key elements to this portion of the discussion. Before we get to those three key elements here.
00:29:33
And the three key elements to Tiffany Williams herself is one, a portion of the clip that we
00:29:40
did not hear is because it's a rather lengthy clip, right? It's probably 20 to 30 minutes
00:29:47
long total. And the part that we don't hear is that prior to going through this exchange
00:29:56
that Tiffany Williams has said occurred between her and Johnny is that before the detectives get into
00:30:03
the words of that conversation. The detective clearly is locking Tiffany Williams into a truth
00:30:14
or fallacy by saying, "Your phone. When you you called Johnny, but he's clarifying you
00:30:20
called him not by means of a landline or Zach's phone or somebody else's phone, your phone. You called Johnny with your
00:30:28
phone at 10:41." And she says, "Correct, my phone." So, the reason why we're locking her
00:30:35
into that is because we are going to be able to pull those records and prove if that part of the story is right or not.
00:30:41
Because we have a lot that seems to be riding on what this conversation was between Tiffany and Johnny.
00:30:50
You hear them, the detectives, trying to figure out, based off of Tiffany's words, if Johnny was upset, if he was
00:30:56
pissed, if he was surprised, if he was scared, if he knew the individuals, if he didn't know the individuals.
00:31:02
>> Right. >> But I want to keep in mind, and I know that I keep harping on this same idea
00:31:09
here. That conversation if it went down that way, only matters if it went down that way.
00:31:17
We have Tiffany Williams, who I am incredibly suspicious of. And welcome to the party. Welcome to the
00:31:24
club. There's a lot of people that are suspicious of her. >> Well, let's point out a couple obvious
00:31:29
things. The cops are trying to get her to say that you're concerned because of the call
00:31:41
that you heard. And she's not even smart enough to realize I just I need to keep going back
00:31:47
to I was concerned by his actions on that phone call. But she's more concerned that they're
00:31:54
trying to do drugs and not include them in the drug usage. >> I think what the detectives are trying
00:32:03
to point out in the corner that they're trying to back her into is oh, you were so concerned about that
00:32:10
call and what you say you heard on that call. But you don't act on that concern until
00:32:16
2 hours later. So, it doesn't seem like you were really concerned about what you
00:32:21
heard on that call. This going back to the same idea that I keep I'm beating a dead horse here,
00:32:27
Captain. We don't have Johnny to tell us what was said on that call. We only have Tiffany
00:32:34
Williams who can tell us what was said on that call? I don't think any of that [ __ ] that she says
00:32:41
happened on that call. >> I mean and this shows you though like the lengths that somebody will go to.
00:32:49
She is telling us these are the lengths that were you're not answering your phone.
00:32:55
You might be doing we know you have some pills. You might be doing these pills without us.
00:33:02
Well, who do we know that he might answer his phone for call his best friend. And of course the best friend thinks
00:33:12
this whole interaction is fishy to begin with. It's it's very strange. >> Well, I like that you point out that the
00:33:22
the her explanation when she's trying to explain her actions. You know, who did you call and when did
00:33:30
you call them and why? You hear that toward the end of the clip. It's all very confusing and muddled, correct?
00:33:38
>> Yeah. >> You know why that is? Because it's easy to tell the truth. It's difficult to lie and what's
00:33:45
happened here is that clip our victims were killed January 30th, January 31st. >> Mhm.
00:33:56
>> Without a doubt. Okay, that interview is taking place March 23rd. By this time Tiffany
00:34:05
Williams has explained the same story to Myte and Johnny's family multiple times.
00:34:13
She's explained the story to the police and detectives multiple times. Why does she sound so damn confused there?
00:34:19
Someone's going to say Nick, well, she's got a drug problem. Fine. But I'm going to point out here it's
00:34:25
difficult to lie. It's easy to tell the truth. She sounds confused here because she's trying to recall what she's told
00:34:31
all these people along the way and keep her story straight. And now it's getting very difficult for
00:34:36
her to do that now 3 months later. Or sorry. Now it's getting difficult for her to do
00:34:43
this almost 2 months later. >> Well, if you go back to the calls to 911 when she's telling the story there, it's
00:34:52
a lot of uh uh uh You do that when you're trying to think of your next statement.
00:35:03
If you made a phone call and you were really concerned and you went, "Okay, well, we got this weird phone call and
00:35:09
then I start calling him and he didn't answer the phone, so then I called his girlfriend and she didn't answer the
00:35:13
phone, so we decided to go over there and we rang the doorbell and and they didn't answer,
00:35:19
so then we tried to call their phone again." I wasn't even there and I can tell you
00:35:24
the story without going uh uh uh So, I think even back to the day in question you can almost hear her trying to think
00:35:37
of what's the best thing to say is. >> Well, she's she's getting caught there and the police almost had her. The
00:35:46
detectives almost had her when she starts getting confused and she starts sounding confused in her delivery as to
00:35:52
what she did and why. They're asking her specifically, "Well, why did you reach out to the family?"
00:35:58
Well, cuz I was concerned about that phone call. Okay, well, that doesn't make sense because you waited 2 hours.
00:36:04
Oh, well, I knew that they could get in touch with them. I wasn't so concerned. I I just knew that they could get in
00:36:09
touch with them and I was I thought maybe they were just avoiding us or not answering our calls or maybe they didn't
00:36:14
want to share pills with us. So, now she's got a different explanation that has that has no meaning on the prior
00:36:19
question or her prior explanation. And the the reason why this is all key is because of something that she said
00:36:27
way too early. She done [ __ ] up. >> Oh, dropping the F-bomb. >> The first 911 call by Mayte to the
00:36:37
police, what does Mayte say to the police? I got this call from Tiffany, some girl
00:36:43
named Tiffany, and she's saying that there was this weird phone call that she would had with my son, and it sounded
00:36:50
like people were breaking into the house. And she's calling us and saying that she's concerned and that she went
00:36:55
over there and she saw the house was ransacked and I'm worried that my son has been abducted or or something worse
00:37:01
has happened during the course of a robbery. Tiffany said to Mayte that she went to
00:37:06
the home and saw that it had been ransacked. That cannot be. >> This is a big problem.
00:37:12
>> This is a big problem for Tiffany and here's why. Because what do we know These are facts, man. These like
00:37:19
You can People out there can can question a lot of what I say sometimes because some of it
00:37:24
>> That's cuz you're an idiot. >> speculation. Thanks, Captain. >> Right. >> Uh but the thing here is
00:37:31
This is not speculation. These are These are words. That's why we're playing these recordings for you because they're
00:37:37
not the colonel's words. Mayte says to the 911 operator, this is before she goes to the scene, before her husband's
00:37:45
at the scene, that this girl says that she was at the scene and saw that the place was ransacked and that's why she
00:37:51
called it she was concerned. The problem with that portion of her story is Guess who else went to that
00:37:57
scene? The police. >> Yeah. >> They did not see any reason for probable cause. They did not see that the home
00:38:03
had been ransacked. Mayte and her husband went to the scene and to the home. And what did
00:38:10
they say? All the blinds were closed. We couldn't see in. We only kicked down the
00:38:15
door once we hoisted somebody up into the air to see into that window. >> And I wish there was
00:38:23
photographic evidence. And And maybe there is by law enforcement. But like you said, this is a big This is a big
00:38:31
deal. Because the police walked all the way around the home, attempted to look in every window. Guess what? They
00:38:36
couldn't see anything because all the blinds were closed. >> Right. The first question
00:38:42
of that night should be Well, how did you see this? How did you see something that we're not
00:38:48
able to see? >> Johnny's father walked around the entirety of that home and looked in
00:38:53
every window, couldn't see everything because anything because the blinds were closed. Myte walked around the home,
00:38:58
looked in every window, couldn't see anything because the blinds were closed. Yet this woman who claims
00:39:06
she saw that the home had been ransacked and that's why she's concerned and that's why she reached out to the
00:39:11
parents because she's concerned for the safety of her friends. The only way she would have known at that time when she
00:39:18
contacted the parents that been ransacked There's only two explanations. Either she was in the home
00:39:25
and had seen that, the outcome >> Yeah. >> or that somebody that was in the home
00:39:30
had told her and gave her that knowledge. There's no other way around it. It's one of those two situations,
00:39:36
which means she was either there when the attack happened or she knows who did the attack.
00:39:43
>> Well, like you said, we have cell phone technology. Shouldn't they be able to say Well,
00:39:50
if she actually took this call from Johnny at at what you say 10:41? >> Remember, that's why they purposely
00:39:57
cleared that up. >> Right. Right. She made the call. >> you called him at 10:41.
00:40:02
>> Right. Because couldn't they do cell phone ping technology and put her at that residence at that time?
00:40:10
>> She doesn't have to be there to be involved. >> True. Yeah. >> Again, she could have had knowledge.
00:40:16
Somebody that was inside the home could have told her, "Yeah, we ransacked the place."
00:40:20
>> Yeah. >> "Yeah, we we ripped up the place. We killed him and we tore the place to
00:40:25
pieces." >> "Yeah, cuz we were looking for drugs or we were looking for money." >> "What do you mean? You guys didn't find
00:40:30
anything?" "We looked everywhere. We looked everywhere. We tore the place apart."
00:40:36
So, yeah, they can do cell phone technology and and and here's the next question that people go They go, "Well,
00:40:42
then why the hell would she alert the family?" Right? That doesn't make any sense.
00:40:47
>> No, no, it doesn't make any sense. >> It actually does make complete sense. They didn't try to alert the family.
00:40:54
They wanted to alert Reuben. >> Right. >> Johnny's friend. Remember they offered
00:40:59
to pick up Reuben and bring him back to the Stob home. They wanted to alert somebody.
00:41:04
>> But >> had to they had to alert somebody. And here's the thing. Reuben, too smart,
00:41:09
says, "You know what? I'm not going over there. I don't know you guys very well.
00:41:13
You got a drug problem. I'm not getting in a car with you." >> But he's concerned enough for his
00:41:17
friend. >> They contact the parents. They had to contact someone. Why? Why would they
00:41:23
have to contact someone? Because of the cell phone records. Right? >> Right. >> They know. They figured it out 2 hours
00:41:36
too damn late. Wait a second. The police are probably going to want to know why I called
00:41:41
Johnny who ends up dead. >> Yeah. >> Now I've got to explain that away. Oh, well, I couldn't have been involved
00:41:48
because when I called him, there was already something going on. >> Yeah, or also the fact that
00:41:55
if they had plans at all to meet up then who did Johnny tell that we're going to meet up
00:42:03
with Tiffany? Who did Lisa possibly tell? >> Right? They have to be able to explain
00:42:09
away the plan the possible plans if there ever were any. >> Right. >> Because again that's we only have
00:42:15
Tiffany to tell us that. But then on top of that because according to Johnny's family
00:42:21
when they spoke to him he said they had no plans for the night. They were going to go home, they were going to chill.
00:42:26
>> Right. >> That could be true. Now the thing here is you're exactly right Captain. If they had plans with
00:42:32
Tiffany now she's got to explain away why those plans didn't happen and why she could not have been involved.
00:42:39
>> Right. >> And the way that she's trying to explain that away is alerting someone that oh by
00:42:44
the way when I talked to him at 10:41 he was he was pissed. He was confused. There was somebody like breaking into
00:42:50
the house right then and there. >> Yeah. >> So her own words means that she has knowledge of she has
00:43:03
knowledge of these crimes that she was privy to before the police were before Johnny's parents were before anybody
00:43:11
else that arrived on that scene. And the only way that she could have had that knowledge was to either A be there
00:43:18
or B somebody gave her that knowledge. >> But we have this messy crime scene. I mean this I mean this is
00:43:30
what's so horrible I could say is most of the time the victims family do not see the victims in the victim's state.
00:43:39
But we have DNA evidence. >> Yeah, we have plenty of DNA evidence. So as mentioned we had some that was found
00:43:48
on Johnny's sweatpants. And they also collected DNA from the cell phones. So what happens at some point here
00:43:56
Captain the perpetrators they ripped the batteries from Lisa and Johnny's cell phones. And I believe they even broke
00:44:04
the cell phones themselves. And the cell phones were recovered different sources either on top of the
00:44:11
victims or nearby the victims. >> Right. >> And so this act of breaking and removing
00:44:17
the battery puts perpetrator DNA on those cell phones. Also on the sweatpants. Here's what I'm
00:44:25
I would love to know. And we talked about this when we we talked about Richard Allen's vehicle, the the
00:44:31
suspect in the Delphi case being confiscated and and uh searching that vehicle. And we've
00:44:37
talked about this plenty of times. I love the logic that is applied to a crime scene
00:44:45
by these technicians. Because guess what? They have This is a big house. They would have the whole house and
00:44:50
every item that was ransacked knocked to the floor, pulled out of drawers to check. You can't check every damn thing.
00:44:56
So what do you do? You have to prioritize where you are going to be looking for fingerprints and DNA.
00:45:02
And blood. And what do we know about the crime scene? What does the crime scene tell us?
00:45:10
Well, the crime scene is talking to the technicians and the crime scene says somebody
00:45:17
either emptied Johnny's wallet or made sure that it was empty. >> Yeah. >> Where does one keep their wallet?
00:45:23
In their pant pocket. So where will we one Where's one location that we will prioritize
00:45:30
looking for physical evidence? Johnny's pants pockets. >> [snorts] >> And so >> about that, too, because even if you're
00:45:38
wearing gloves that normally you have a space between like even if you're wearing longs like a
00:45:46
long-sleeve shirt you have that space in between. And that would make contact if you're
00:45:52
reaching into somebody's pocket. >> Correct. And where on his pants do they find DNA evidence?
00:45:59
His pants pocket. So very likely reached in and removed his wallet and then took money out of it
00:46:06
or made sure that it was empty. >> Right. >> And what's what's interesting here, too,
00:46:10
again, the crime scene. What is it telling us? What is it telling the technicians and
00:46:15
the investigators? We know there was a sign of a struggle. Johnny was a big guy. He was strong. He was a He was a
00:46:21
weightlifter, bodybuilder at one time. He put up a struggle. We know that the the crime scene shows a struggle at the
00:46:29
at the door going from the garage into the home. It's believed that that's where Johnny
00:46:34
tried to fend off the intruder and intruders. Well, the intruder may have injured
00:46:40
themselves during the course of that scuffle. >> Right. >> It is blood It it's blood evidence that they find
00:46:49
that will give them the DNA evidence in Johnny's pocket. So, as you said, perpetrator reached in,
00:46:56
pulled out that wallet, and left a little something of them behind unknowingly at the crime scene.
00:47:03
The other location that they find DNA evidence is on the duct tape, which is which is often a place that people
00:47:10
will find DNA evidence. And here's why. How many times have you witnessed a person for any number of reasons,
00:47:18
you're you're know you're just out doing something, whatever, how they either have to tear the duct
00:47:23
tape, cut it, or a lot of people stick the end in their mouth and use their teeth and tear it off.
00:47:29
>> Right. >> That saliva is going to leave DNA evidence on that duct tape. So, they find DNA on the duct tape,
00:47:36
Johnny's pocket, and they also find it on the cigarette butt. Now, of their suspects,
00:47:43
and they talked to a lot of people here. Some of them agree to polygraph, some don't. Some agree to a DNA swab, some
00:47:50
don't. They end up collecting, I believe it's about two dozen DNA swabs from persons that they talked to. And
00:47:57
again, not everybody was willing to consent to this. Two individuals that did not consent, in
00:48:04
fact, two individuals that were not even on police's radar, get immediately pulled into this case.
00:48:13
None of the DNA that they had collected matched that on the duct tape, the pants pocket, or the cigarette butt.
00:48:22
But, on the cigarette butt, the Newport cigarette that was found at the crime scene near the door to the garage,
00:48:31
yielded two DNA donors. And both of those individuals had a criminal background.
00:48:40
So, they are already listed in CODIS. >> Right. >> When police check the DNA found at the
00:48:47
scene against CODIS, it delivers them two prime suspects that they were unaware of. One, Samuel Todd
00:48:56
Williams, and two, Cameo Pettaway. >> Well, >> [clears throat] >> what happened to you inside today?
00:49:11
There's some things that Mr. Ross and I would like to talk to you about, okay? Uh we ran some names by you.
00:49:18
Um you've been advised your rights and stuff. Um you're saying you never been to that
00:49:30
house. >> No. >> Can we get to the to the meat of what we want to talk to you about then?
00:49:40
>> Go ahead. >> We We had a problem at that house last winter. Did you hear anything about it?
00:49:46
>> No. >> Okay. Couple of kids were found dead in there. Uh Young adult. And uh They were probably the victim of a
00:50:04
burglary. They got bum-rushed in the place. You know what we're talking about bum-rushed?
00:50:08
Somebody just crashes in on you and maybe robs you or burglarizes your house. I mean, you know what we're talking
00:50:17
about. Okay. >> So, that's what happened to these young fellas. >> So, how did my name get brought up in
00:50:23
this? >> Science. >> I don't understand how. >> Well, remember when these guys respond to a
00:50:33
scene, and they go in there, you're a criminal justice major, right? >> They cordon off the area.
00:50:43
>> Everybody that is involved in that scene goes in, they start collecting evidence.
00:50:48
Okay? These guys collected a lot of evidence. And they had a lot of evidence tested
00:50:56
for DNA. Do you know what DNA is? Okay, explain to us what you think DNA is. >> You mean
00:51:05
you saliva or whatever. >> Saliva, poop, piss, skin cells, hair follicles, all that stuff gives up an
00:51:15
individual's individual characteristics. Do you buy that? Based on what you've been taught in
00:51:23
school. >> I haven't I'm only doing my like basic courses right now. I'm not doing
00:51:30
the >> They will tell you soon enough that DNA's like fingerprints. You know there's no two fingerprints that are
00:51:35
alike. There's no two DNAs that are alike. Each of us have a separate one. If they tested Jeff here,
00:51:44
his would come up with a certain row of numbers that means something to the scientist.
00:51:49
They tested you, you'd come up with a different bunch of numbers in a row that means something to the scientist, but
00:51:55
yours wouldn't be like Jeff's. If I spit on a cotton swab and they did my DNA, numbers would come up. Mine would not be
00:52:04
like yours. Mine would not be like his. We're all separate. Just like if they took our
00:52:10
fingerprints tonight, your fingerprint would be different from Jeff's. Be different from mine. Mine would be
00:52:18
different from him and from you. You understand where we're going? >> Mhm. >> It's unique to the individual.
00:52:25
There's no two DNAs that are alike. >> Totally understand it. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Now, when these guys collected a lot of
00:52:34
pieces of evidence in there that were involved in this crime, they sent them to Bowling Green for
00:52:39
testing. Okay? And items in that scene came back with your DNA on it. Okay? And how do you explain that?
00:52:55
How can we explain that? >> I have no idea. >> You've never been to that house? >> Never been to that house.
00:53:01
>> know those kids? >> know them people. >> And your DNA's in that house. >> I don't know.
00:53:10
>> You have no idea? >> Nope. >> Do you understand where that puts you? Do you understand where this is going?
00:53:25
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00:53:49
joining us here in the garage and sharing this case on social media. Until tomorrow, be good, be kind, and [music]
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