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all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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what I heard was acid is groovy kill the pigs and I believe I heard that twice at
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first that was the first thing that I remember hearing but it's very jumbled because that's mixed up with my wife
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screaming Jeff help me and my daughter screaming [Music] we have a triple homicide we have a man
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in the hospital the sole survivor of an attack that went down by four Intruders according to his account what we have
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too Captain is a crime scene that does not provide us any obvious signs for a motive we have no signs of a break-in
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right when MPS responded to Jeffrey McDonald's call explaining that his family had been stabbed they arrived on
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scene and they found the front door to the apartment locked and secured they found the back door open and it and if
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you believe that there was Intruders you go well okay that makes sense but if you
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believe there wasn't an intruder it still makes sense because the weapons were found discarded in the backyard one
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thing that I do like about this case and it's funny to say you like anything about a triple homicide what I like
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about this case from an investigative standpoint is you only have two options okay so if you are out there listening
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to this case you maybe you've never heard of this case before and you're thinking what the hell could have
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happened here let me clear it up for you real quick one of two things happened either four
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people entered this home attempted to murder four people only successfully killed three of them and
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fled the scene or Jeffrey McDonald killed his family staged the scene and provided law enforcement with a
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story to cover why he's alive and the three other members of his family are dead those are your only possibilities
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here so don't let your imagination run wild it's either a or b and if you're going to come to a conclusion you have
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to pick a side and you only have those two sides to choose from so either The Intruders entered through
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this back door attempted to kill everybody inside and then fled leaving the back door open or Jeffrey McDonald
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killed his family and the instruments that he used to kill them he opened up the back door tossed them outside and
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then called the police right and all the weapons that were used like you said before were found with inside the house
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they don't believe these were weapons that were taken to the scene of the crime but again
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still possible if you have four Intruders that they use weapons that they they could just be breaking in they
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they might not have been planning on murdering anybody and then they go okay well we're here might as well and we
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have let's see what we have as weapons that so that could apply for the Intruder Theory also implies for the
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husband killing his whole family and you really question again a crime scene that
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leaves us with no obvious signs for a motive it doesn't leave us with any obvious signs of a motive that Jeffrey
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killed his family I mean this was a a family man his children were five and two he had been married for a while this
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was okay so maybe his daughter with the bed we know for a fact that she did wet his side of the bed that's that's an
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absolute fact what he decided to do when he noticed that is one of two things either he gets in an argument loses
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control and kills his family or he goes to sleep on the couch as he said but when it comes to The Intruders
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we don't have a robbery that took place we don't have missing items from the home the only evidence that we have of
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anything of motive as far as Intruders would go is this the word pigs Written in Blood
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on the headboard Jeffrey McDonald and his family represent the man and represent whatever these people have an
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issue with with society and maybe they're trying to they're trying to carry out Manson family type murders and
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attacks that really are I mean at the heart of the Manson family murders was to instill fear and create these race
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riots and we wouldn't necessarily learn that 1970 but it's almost these senseless murders right right that
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they're that they're one and the same as a similar thing that went down in California is now going down in North
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Carolina these drug crazed cult hippies are they're willing to break into anyone's home and kill anybody just
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because and I don't want to get into a big debate because we're not covering the mans in case but that's not what I
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believe in the was and that murder let's get into Jeffrey McDonald's description
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of the four Intruders because as said this only went down one of two ways the four Intruders did it or Jeffrey
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McDonald did it this is from his 1970 interview he describes these four individuals as
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follows the most famous of the suspects here would be the lone female intruder she's the one that people who have
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followed this case or if you have any awareness of this case you've heard about her she is really
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one of the centerpieces of of this case so he describes one blonde female wearing a floppy hat high boots and a
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short skirt he says he could not recall the color of the boots although I've seen statements not by McDonald but I've
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seen statements put out there that the boots were were either white or brown he says he cannot recall the exact color
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of the boots he said that they were wet when he saw the boots that they were shiny or they appeared to be wet and
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that this woman was holding a candle or flashlight in front of her face and she was the one saying that
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acid is groovy killed the pigs someone was saying hit him again and he said it might have been the female Intruder who
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was saying hit him again this lady he describes as Caucasian female 16 to 25 years of age five foot
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two to five foot four inches tall approximately 110 to 130 pounds long light blonde hair hanging to the middle
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of her back wearing a large floppy hat dark colored high brown or black fake leather boots possibly either a short
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skirt or shorts medium build and again holding a lit candle in front of her body or flashlight the male Intruders he
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says one was a Caucasian male 18 to 25 years old five foot ten inches tall 170 to 180 pounds medium build wearing a tan
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jacket clean shaven wearing a cross on a chain around his neck another one of the male Intruders also
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Caucasian again 18 to 25 years of age five foot seven inches tall 140 to 150 pounds dark hair slight to medium build
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Thin Mustache deep set eyes with pock marks on cheeks and Chin wearing a sweatshirt with hood dangling down in
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the back the other Intruder he describes as a black male age 18 to 24 years of age
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approximately five foot ten inches to 5 foot 11 inches tall 160 to 180 pounds medium build medium complexion
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he had black hair cut close to the head and was where well kept wearing an army fatigue jacket with
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Sergeant E6 stripes the man was clean-shaven and had a chubby face that's the Brilliance of this case
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captain again it's one of two things either these four Intruders killed this family
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or Jeffrey McDonald killed his family the thing here though Captain it's so fascinating to me is
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it's a very detailed account per McDonald's what happened that night and who is responsible not only is it picking one
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side or the other but you're going to if you believe the Intruder Theory his account is so so detailed
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I think that that's where you run into trouble as an investigator on this case because you go he gave such a detailed
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account of The Intruders and what went down that night how could he be lying how could he make it up
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but then it's also the details are are so much so there that that could be his downfall as well yeah
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but it's also the way when we talked about this we talked about this after recording yesterday's show was the way
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he presents the evidence it's it's almost like he blurs it well and I think I I did this and I think at that point I
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was going in and out of Consciousness and even when he talks about hearing his wife screamed that he then thinks he
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hears his daughter scream but it was all jumbled it's almost like by blurring the
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lines a little bit it's setting up a get out of free jail card so if you tell them well that the the forensic evidence
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doesn't back that up he can go well I don't know if my details are 100 correct there's also a problem with that part of
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his account in my opinion to to say that there were only four Intruders and that
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he hears his wife screaming Jeff why are they doing this to me at the same time that he's being
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attacked by the four Intruders seems a little difficult to put that all together if in fact there were only four
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people that broke into his home that night while we're talking about the crime scene Captain I want to point something
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out here and I want to take something out from the investigation because I think that this case gets very confusing
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when you start overlapping all of the evidence the would-be evidence or evidence that nothing is there and one
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thing is the footprints okay so one thing that the MPS immediately questioned in their investigation and
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Jeffrey McDonald's account of what went down that night is it had been raining all night when these four Intruders came
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into the home and McDonald's account as well says he believed the boots the female boots that he saw were wet
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soaking wet why were there not wet Footprints all over the house why was there not mud muddy Footprints
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and debris you know grass and stuff like that inside the home well this is also a
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bloody scene so where's the bloody Footprints of of these there was one bloody footprint found inside the house
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and it was Jeffrey McDonald's footprint where he had stepped in Blood and you could see his his footprint was found
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there which makes sense going off of his account he woke up after he was attacked
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he goes room to room looking to help his family so obviously you would expect to
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find that there the reason why I say let's go ahead and toss out the footprint Theory because I don't think
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that you can conclude that there were Intruders or not Intruders based off of well we didn't find any wet or muddy
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Footprints inside the house and I say that because we have a statement from the military police themselves 14
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military police were inside that crime scene while they were investigating securing the area trying to get help to
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these four people who were attacked and their own detectives say we didn't find any Footprints from the MPS so if you
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you didn't find any Footprints from the MPS it's also logical that you may not find any Footprints from The Intruders
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correct so I think we can go ahead looking at the crime scene toss out Footprints or no Footprints as it
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doesn't help us decide if there were Intruders or not the other thing I want to go ahead and throw out as well are
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fingerprints because we have statements in court documents that make it sound like there were
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probably some Intruders in the house because we had 30 3-0 unidentified fingerprints found inside the McDonald
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apartment well that's a lot of a lot of unidentified fingerprints if you go into
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most people's homes you are going to find unidentified fingerprints in most people's homes one thing that's very
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interesting about this is the daughters they failed to fingerprint the daughters in their investigation
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so it's whoopsie isn't it conceivable to believe that two young people that lived
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in this house every day probably left some of their own fingerprints in that house and you have
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30 unidentified fingerprints because you failed to fingerprint two of the people
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that lived inside of the home and possibly other acquaintances of the family correct so there again I don't
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think that fingerprints with or without them helps us decide if there were Intruders or not that night so toss out
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the footprints or lack of footprints toss out the fingerprints and we'll continue through the evidence and while
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we're on the suspects here Captain the description of The Intruders provided to us by Jeffrey McDonald
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one thing that has really confused this case and made it extremely difficult is that the woman he described the woman in
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the floppy hat as she is famously known this woman was found this woman was located a Woman matching
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that description was located and questioned and said that on the night of the murders that she had gone out for a
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ride with three of her friends her three male friends and they were so far out on
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drugs that she could not tell you what she did that night or where she was she could have been at the McDonald House
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she doesn't know that is what led to the article 32 hearing of dismissing the case against Jeffrey McDonald the Army
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said basically look there's not enough evidence to try this man right and second of all there's been a woman
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located that matches the description of the woman in the floppy hat she cannot account for her whereabouts that night
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she was on drugs now mind you the Army kind of decided that whoever committed these triple
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homicides that they were either mentally insane or hopped up on drugs right LSD yeah or or what have you two men so tune
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in and that's what gets Difficult about this case Captain they found this woman named Helena Stokely who she matches the
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description because she says that she borrowed a hat from a friend a floppy hat borrowed a blonde wig from one of
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her friends because Helena Stokely does not have blonde hair she has very dark hair and apparently doesn't own a floppy
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hat she says it that night her and her three friends they were out doing drugs and she was so hopped up on drugs can't
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tell you exactly what she was doing but she knows she was wearing that blonde wig and that floppy hat then we have
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witnesses coming forward that start telling police that Helena Stokely told them that she
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was somehow involved in these murders that she was at the McDonald house that night
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that she had seen how it went down yeah I think there's a clip of her saying that she at one point yelled acid is
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groovy kill the pigs she also says that she believed that she said hit him again
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once or twice while she was inside the home right which is too things that Jeffrey claims that these
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Intruders said so then you go look most of the evidence doesn't point to there being an intruder
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most of the evidence points to this dude is guilty he's a piece of [ __ ] for killing his family right
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but this is a big piece we we we now we now have this lady that he's claiming was there when he was
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attacked and when the murders took place and she's going um yeah by the way I borrowed a hat borrowed a wig I was
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there now I'm telling people Not only was I there but this is what I said now again I wonder where she could have got
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this information from is it possible that she got this information from press releases and there were dozens of
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witnesses saying that she told them that she was there that night yeah this was before she was being looked at before
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her name was known to this case and in the papers well and that gives it more weight to me because if she was only
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making statements after she was arrested in question then it to me it would just
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be like well here's here's maybe some druggie that's looking for their 15 minutes of
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fame but she's telling people this before she's identified as one of The Intruders so in 1970 was
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the year of the murders and the year of the article 32 hearings that were conducted by the U.S army to decide if
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we're going to try and and court-martial Jeffrey McDonald even though it was dismissed
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it sounds like they wanted to look at this Helena Stokely person figure out her possible involvement in this whole
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thing but at the same time Jeffrey McDonald was still considered a suspect in this case even though they dismissed
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the case right like I said because the majority of the evidence really points to him so shortly after he gets out of
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these article 32 hearings he starts doing media interviews TV shows you heard it there in the trailer and
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some clips there he goes on and he starts telling what happened uh on live TV or on these different TV shows and
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remember Freddie casab his father-in-law kassab stood by Jeffrey McDonald however he starts
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seeing his son-in-law on these TV shows and he starts hearing the stories that McDonald's telling on
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these TV shows and he's saying wait a second this isn't matching up with what some of
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the stories we've heard from McDonald before there's all these slight variations of these stories what I'm
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also assuming that he had some private conversations Jeffrey had some private conversations with his father-in-law and
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probably told him some details too so absolutely both Freddy and Mildred kasab the in-laws Colette's parents testified
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on Jeffrey McDonald's behalf at the article 32 hearings saying that that they were more emotionally invested in
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this case than anyone else in the room and neither of them considered Jeffrey McDonald to be a suspect and I think
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that that rang loud and clear to the persons at that article 32 hearing right because
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essentially they're victims right so you have victims saying hey we don't think this
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is the guy so it was their daughter it was their granddaughters right because a lot of times let's say you have just a
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little pile of evidence and you go but we don't know if this is enough to convict him
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but sometimes those jurors are going to weigh in favor of let's at least charge this guy let's put him on trial because
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we have these victims and they need justice but now you have live victims in the courtroom saying we don't need
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Justice because this isn't the guy what you also have is Jeffrey McDonald moves out to Long Beach California very
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quickly after the article 32 hearings are dismissed play on player now we have Freddie casab who's starting to see his
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son-in-law on TV going these his stories are different he's starting to explain different injuries that he sustained
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during these attacks that he did not sustain that kassab knew Jeffrey did not sustain right and so he keeps calling
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his son-in-law this is over the course of months and months and months McDonald's out in California and kasab
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is getting him on the phone constantly saying we need to find these four people that that killed our family in
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particular casab wanted a he wanted to have a copy of the 2000 page transcript of the article 32 hearings now kassab
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wanted this and we would learn this later Captain but kassab wanted this because he wanted to see what McDonald's
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statements were to MPS that night he wanted to see what Jeffrey had told investigators all along and compare it
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to What Jeffrey told him and what he sees Jeffrey telling in the newspapers currently and when he was on these TV
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shows he wants to compare all this Jeffrey McDonald keeps telling kasab that that's not a document that the Army
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is willing to hand out I've contacted them multiple times I've asked them for this document it's 2 000 Pages roughly
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they're not willing to give it to me right well Freddie casabs he wasn't born 10 minutes ago eventually he decides to
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contact make him a really young father and grandfather he decides to contact the Army himself and they do in
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fact provide him with a copy of the transcript of the article 32 hearings yeah and my issue with this is look you
00:26:18
know you're you're the father-in-law it's not about so much the infidelity whether you think married people should
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hook up with other people it's the lying about it right if if Jeffrey's wife was
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okay with it who am I to say what they do in their marriage but when you're lying about it you're doing something
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that she doesn't want to do and then now on top of that his father-in-law is catching him in another lie so all that
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all I'm stating is that now we know he's a liar so what else is he lying about Freddie and Mildred kasab wanted to
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carry on a family type relationship with Jeffrey McDonald after Colette and the kids were Bartered they wanted to carry
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on a relationship with their son-in-law he's out in California he kind of he responds to their calls talks to him on
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the phone but he doesn't really want much to do with them is what cassava tell us cassav keeps saying we've got to
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find out who did this well McDonald tells Freddie we don't have to worry about Colette's murder anymore we don't
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have to worry that the police have not found anyone have not arrested anyone because me and a couple of other Green
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Berets we track down one of the men that was responsible for the murders that night
00:27:33
we found him in Texas and we went there and we did some Street Justice that night we we took care of him you killed
00:27:41
him I broke my arm in the process but me and a couple guys from the Green Berets
00:27:46
we took care of one of the guys so Freddie casab you don't have to worry about Colette's murder anymore we're
00:27:53
taking care of it here's my big problem with this again we know he's a liar you know that your son-in-law's a liar so I
00:28:02
don't buy this bag of horseshit story one bit right right Jeffrey McDonald is not some
00:28:11
tough guy and what it seems to me is you go motive was the motive his daughter taking a piss in his bed
00:28:20
no no no no the motive was he didn't want to be married and he didn't want to have kids and he wanted to just sleep
00:28:28
with whoever he wanted to and not have to answer anybody and we have now extra evidence of that
00:28:34
what does he do does he try to stay in the area and try to get Justice for his wife and his daughters no and for his
00:28:43
unborn baby no what does he do he goes out to LA he wants to try to act like a Playboy well he says he goes out there
00:28:51
Captain because he just couldn't continue to live his life the way he was when he was married and when he had
00:28:56
children that that being around his in-laws talking with his in-laws only brought up all of the pain full memories
00:29:04
and all of the nightmares that he was having so he says in his own defense that that is a big portion of why he
00:29:11
moved out to California and why he didn't want to look into the murders the way that Freddy kassab wanted to look
00:29:18
into these murders now when was Freddie casab born Captain uh not yesterday not 10 minutes ago we don't we didn't have
00:29:25
it in our timeline for when he was born but we know it wasn't 10 minutes ago because he contacts is Jeffrey
00:29:32
McDonald's employer out in California remember McDonald told him he took a trip out to Texas with some of his Green
00:29:38
Beret buddies and they took did some Street Justice yeah he told him what dates that he was in Texas kassab speaks
00:29:45
with McDonald's employer and finds out no he was in California and he was at work on those days that he claimed to
00:29:52
have been in Texas solving the murder of his wife and daughters yeah yeah liar liar pants on fire now now hear me out
00:29:58
though too think about how how this makes zero sense at all by the way you don't have to worry about the murders
00:30:05
anymore because we already took care of one of the pieces of [ __ ] if you're willing to get a couple of Green Berets
00:30:11
and go do some prison Justice and possibly put be put into prison for the rest of your life for murder you're not
00:30:18
going to stop at one of The Intruders you're going to make sure that you find every single one of The Intruders and
00:30:24
you make sure they're dead if you ever seen a Liam Neeson movie when he he went after the kidnappers and he killed one
00:30:31
and said okay well well there I know there's another three out there but movies over folks get your popcorn and
00:30:37
get the [ __ ] out of the theater no that's not what happens Liam Neeson gives you a call and says I'm coming for
00:30:43
you and he comes after all of them and kills them all [Music] [Music] [Music] all right we're back in True Crime
00:31:15
addicts cheers to you and cheers to the goat paternal Hallelujah to the people in the
00:31:23
back some people could like to call you the baby goat I see some of you back there nodding off wake up you know who
00:31:29
I'm talking about yeah Captain I believe that it was Freddy casab that really was
00:31:36
spearheaded this investigation to finally bringing charges against Jeffrey McDonald the way that this works is
00:31:43
McDonald is he's discharged from the Army so if he would have remained an officer in the Army this would have been
00:31:51
an army problem right they would have had to take this thing to trial and do it their way but once he's discharged he
00:31:58
becomes a civilian again and now it becomes the problem of the local law enforcement agency we have Freddie casab
00:32:08
who he starts setting up meetings with different detectives and explaining to them things that they missed things that
00:32:15
Jeffrey McDonald is saying to him that he knows not to be true saying to them why they should be charging his
00:32:23
son-in-law with the murder of his daughter and two granddaughters it's not until 1979.
00:32:31
okay they were killed in 1970. the article 32 hearings were in 1970 but in 1979 they finally take Jeffrey McDonald
00:32:42
to trial and he's charged with three counts of murder again because you have the victims pleading for justice correct
00:32:53
what's interesting here is the opening statements by the prosecution they talk at length about that magazine the
00:33:04
remember the magazine articles that we were talking about in yesterday's show about the Manson family murders and how
00:33:12
Jeffrey McDonald was having a conversation with his friend Lieutenant Harrison about can you believe what's
00:33:18
going on in California can you believe these crazy hippie Cults that are killing people
00:33:24
well they discussed that Esquire magazine at length in the opening statement because they said what
00:33:32
happened was Jeffrey McDonald flew off the handle lost it there was an argument between him and his wife that turned
00:33:40
violent at some point McDonald strikes her in the head with that piece of wood or the
00:33:46
club and then he goes on to kill his wife and his two daughters when he had to come up with a reason of
00:33:56
what happened he remembered back to the magazine articles about the crazy Cults that are
00:34:03
breaking into people's homes the drugged out uh insane hippies that are looking for blood acid is groovy man he
00:34:12
remembered those articles and he set up the scene to make it look like that is what went down
00:34:20
and he had the story The Alibi already written for him it was in the Esquire magazine the March 1970 Esquire magazine
00:34:31
issue yeah that seems believable because it just happened and the trial hasn't even happened yet in the Manson family
00:34:39
murders so if it could happen out west why couldn't it happen at least it could happen anywhere anywhere where
00:34:48
there's young people doing drugs that that want to do violence for no reason at all I would just say it's less likely
00:34:55
to happen on Fort Bragg or any army facility Well this was not a closed army base this base was actually open to the
00:35:04
public some of them are closed and that that's one thing that you you go okay well
00:35:10
if it went down the way McDonald's said on a closed base they would have they would have found the people that did
00:35:16
this that night but that's not the situation here I'm just saying what they're going to go on to present
00:35:23
Captain is evidence that McDonald's story it's just not right it's a little horse there are problems
00:35:31
with his story and again you only have one of two outcomes here he's he's laid the groundwork for us he told us the
00:35:39
story the alternative story of what happened to his family if you don't believe that he killed them you gotta
00:35:45
believe the other one so they start tearing apart his story I I don't like the fact that all the weapons or all the
00:35:54
instruments of murder came from with inside the home I also don't like the fact that we have no
00:36:02
Footprints and we have no evidence of fingerprints being from any of these Intruders
00:36:10
quote-unquote Intruders the other piece of evidence that I really think works against him is he claims that there's
00:36:16
this struggle on this fight and he's being attacked and stabbed inside the home in the family room
00:36:23
and they find zero of his shirt fibers in the family room yes so remember his description of what went down he says at
00:36:32
some point his pajama top must have been pulled up over top of his head it's around his forearms and his hand and
00:36:39
he's using this to fend off the attacker and there's all of these puncture holes
00:36:46
in his pajama top he says that he's using this to fend off them trying to strike him with the ice
00:36:53
pick or with the knife he doesn't know it's kind of a blur You Know It All Happened very quickly but what the
00:36:59
captain's pointing out is that attack per Jeffrey McDonald went down in the living room
00:37:05
or a family room what have you know there are no fibers torn off fibers from that pajama top found in the living
00:37:13
room where you do find pajama top Jeffrey McDonald PJ top fibers are in the bedrooms right where Colette
00:37:24
was killed in the master bedroom and his daughters who were killed in their bedrooms well and I have an issue with
00:37:29
something and it's not really pointed out in a lot of arguments that you see online but him taking his daughter that
00:37:36
wet the bed and putting in putting her into her bed I know that times were different but a
00:37:44
lot of the times you have to clean the kid up because if not they can get rashes and
00:37:50
stuff and so for him to be a doctor and to go okay well I'm going to move her out of the bed but there's pee and I
00:37:58
don't want to clean it up so I'll just sleep on the couch you still need to clean up your daughter
00:38:03
and he's very detailed about so many parts of the story but he never says why I picked up my daughter and then then I
00:38:11
cleaned her off and then I put her to bed well let's take that fiber evidence a step further because there's something
00:38:18
else that lines up with that fiber evidence he says that he was struck in the head with that club or that piece of
00:38:25
wood in the living room uh-huh well we know that some of the other victims Colette
00:38:32
in particular were struck in the head or neck area with that club or that piece of wood
00:38:40
they found splinters little pieces of fragments of the piece of wood right of the club
00:38:47
where did they find those not the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles father they found them in the bedrooms not in the
00:38:55
living room where he says he was attacked so therefore it didn't happen so again the physical evidence is not
00:39:01
lining up with his story liar liar pants on fire the other issue is he says that
00:39:06
he administered mouth-to-mouth resuscitation on the three victims inside the home now this is a good one
00:39:14
that you're pointing out on break out of the three three other victims two of them both of his daughters were
00:39:21
found in their beds anybody that's done mouth to mouth even just somebody like me who's just trained in CPR and first
00:39:29
aid I'm no doctor right this guy's a surgeon but you are a colonel the two daughters are found in their beds and
00:39:36
they're found lying on their sides if he had administered mouth to mouth to them
00:39:43
one would think being a doctor he would know that your you should lay them out flat you're going to have to move or
00:39:50
manipulate the body once you find them in their bedrooms lay them flat and administer mouth to mouth
00:39:57
that way all right makes zero sense so it just doesn't look like he did what he said that he did let's take it a step
00:40:06
further law enforcement the detectives were able to determine that the pig That Was Written in Blood Colette's blood on
00:40:15
the headboard in the master bedroom whoever wrote that used two fingers to smear the blood to make the letters and
00:40:24
wore gloves when they applied the blood to the headboard they could tell this because there were no fingerprints they
00:40:31
take that a step further they found pieces of surgical gloves in the master bedroom covered in Colette's blood
00:40:41
they found surgical gloves in the cabinet in the kitchen that matched up with the
00:40:49
pieces of the surgical gloves found in the master bedroom so if you are willing to believe that four individuals broke
00:40:56
into this home or found the door locked unlocked out back and entered the home managed to go through the home and find
00:41:04
the murder weapons pick their weapons while they're at the scene they also managed to find surgical gloves and
00:41:10
decided to put them on after they've already been inside the home doesn't make a lot of sense does it no it
00:41:15
doesn't make any sense and if you want to take this a step further well and hold on a second because I want to point
00:41:21
out something in the story like I said I I think this individual Jeffrey's smart
00:41:26
enough to know how to blur lines I think he's a chronic liar I think he probably
00:41:32
would lie about things that he wouldn't even need to lie about but when he said in his story something to the effect of
00:41:40
that he could tell that one of the the attackers had gloves on now is that stating what kind of gloves
00:41:47
but he knows he knows that he used surgical gloves wear these and smear the blood so they can't get my fingerprint
00:41:55
but I also have to establish that I know that one of The Intruders have gloves on
00:42:00
them at the trial Captain two very important things happen in this case that stand out from the others
00:42:08
one we talked about all that that evidence we just discussed but he hires a really good defense team you know this
00:42:15
is on par with maybe not the Dream Team like OJ had but these are he's got a whole team of lawyers
00:42:24
and they kind of set up camp together so they're all working day and night on Jeffrey McDonald's defense
00:42:32
the defense team decides to hire Joe McGinnis they wanted a a an author Joe McGinnis was a well-known author at the
00:42:41
time and they hired him because they wanted to at some point tell the story Jeffrey
00:42:48
McDonald story of how his family was killed until it from the defense's perspective
00:42:54
so they hire this author and have him hold up with their defense team while they're building their case to defend
00:43:03
Jeffrey McDonald the other thing that happens is that the defense team presents a woman
00:43:10
to the court Helena Stokely Helena Stokely and they present witnesses that say that Helena Stokely told them that
00:43:19
she was at the crime scene that she was at the McDonald House and knows what went down that night yeah that she's all
00:43:25
hopped up on acid wearing the blonde wig wearing the floppy dong hat Stokely when she testifies she basically says
00:43:35
I don't know where I was that night I was on drugs me and my friends were on drugs it was not the first night nor was
00:43:45
it the last night that I cannot recall anything that I did that night I'm a golden God I'm on drugs however
00:43:53
the defense is able to point out that she matches given the wig that she would have been wearing given the floppy hat
00:44:00
that she borrowed from a friend she would have matched the description provided by Jeffrey McDonald but we also
00:44:08
don't know exactly when she borrowed that wig or borrowed that hat according to her statements and this was not
00:44:17
presented at court but according to her statements later she says that she borrowed the wig and the hat for the
00:44:24
outing that night and what's weird about Helena Stokely is her story is going to change and it's
00:44:34
going to become more much more difficult as she tells this story she starts filling in some of
00:44:41
the blanks and then you start to wonder man it sounds to me like these four Intruders really did enter the house and
00:44:49
did carry this out the short of it is Jeffrey McDonald is convicted of killing his wife and his two daughters convicted
00:44:57
of three homicides but what we would hear throughout time is all of these Witnesses come forward Helena Stokely
00:45:05
told me she was there that night oh her boyfriend at the time was considered to be some kind of violent maniac and he
00:45:14
matches the description of one of the men of the three they could have been with Helena Stokely
00:45:20
that night but of the three that could have been with her as any of them dead well that's what's difficult Helena
00:45:27
Stokely the best that she can provide to anybody for the longest time was I was there that night but I cannot
00:45:35
implicate the other three that were there with me I was there that night I saw what went down but I will not tell
00:45:43
you who the three people were with me that night one of my problems with her in general is why
00:45:53
would you say anything to anyone about these murders or even say that you were there yes you're saying hey I'm I I
00:46:01
can't um tell on the others but if these other individuals or these to range druggy Psychopaths they're gonna find
00:46:13
you and they're going to kill you you see what I mean I almost feel like yes she doesn't know if she was there or not
00:46:20
and yes she probably has said multiple times acid is groovy man but I think some of it is just we see especially in
00:46:30
the 70s 70s and the 80s the popularity of these individuals I mean Charles Manson at one point had to
00:46:40
be in the top five icons of the world personalities of the world where everybody has heard that name as seen
00:46:48
his picture could it just be that this individual wanted some kind of notoriety and it
00:46:56
didn't really matter how it was because when push came to shove when when she's being talked when she's talking to
00:47:02
reporters she seems like she's more confident that she was there and that this murder took place when she's
00:47:09
talking to people that matter because they could put her in jail seems like she clams up a little bit this case is
00:47:15
very difficult to go through for me to to sit in my chair and try to stay neutral or to try to keep a level head
00:47:23
because I look at this case and I see appeal after appeal after appeal after appeal filed from the McDonald camp
00:47:33
I start to wonder how much and how long and how how costly has keeping Jeffrey McDonald been
00:47:43
to to the state and then you take it a step further and you go or is this a huge
00:47:51
Injustice did these Intruders kill his family because then you have you have everybody that that are are McDonald
00:48:00
backers that say how can you have multiple Witnesses multiple people come forward that say
00:48:09
they believe Helena Stokely and I I say this to those people it doesn't mean that what she is telling
00:48:19
you is the truth just because you believe her or she told you something it doesn't mean that that is in fact the
00:48:25
truth it just means that that's what she said with Helena Stokely she has always kind
00:48:31
of been a big issue a big problem and also a big reason why the McDonald Camp has so many things to question and to
00:48:38
appeal in this case we talked about the unidentified fingerprints okay well that's a problem for the prosecution we
00:48:46
got into the fibers and the splinters that were not good for McDonald that made him look very guilty however when
00:48:53
he was tried it was agreed upon that there were at least two hairs or two locations inside the crime scene where
00:49:02
they found hair that they could not match to anyone one of those was a blonde synthetic hair
00:49:09
a fake hair see that's that's the Helena Stokely story was that she borrowed a blonde wig that someone entered the home
00:49:17
that's the problem with this damn story is like it this is why it's the great debater right is because
00:49:25
again you go okay the word Pig Was Written in Blood using gloves that a surgeon would wear that you found in the
00:49:35
house it's more likely that the surgeon that killed his family would know where those gloves were and then he used that
00:49:43
as a way to cover up these murders and to then say it was these this hippie satanic group
00:49:51
or whatever right so a piece of evidence like that goes oh Paul he's definitely full of [ __ ] right and then they find
00:49:58
something like fake hair blonde now here's my my issue with that is that that seems like a aha
00:50:09
aha we guiding moment right and if you found that that blonde strain of hair that would come from possibly a wig then
00:50:20
he is totally innocent but you have two daughters and how many Barbies do they have how
00:50:29
many you to me you would have to test that fiber that's synthetic hair yeah that synthetic hair against every single
00:50:37
My Little Pony Barbie doll or whatever yeah this is true the other thing that looks really bad for McDonald and this
00:50:46
this is I understand that this case is you know heavily debated I get it the master debater I can I can
00:50:54
understand why however I think that what we have here and I think it's something very unique
00:51:00
to any of the you know we've covered so many cases Captain I think this is a very unique situation where we have what
00:51:07
I can only describe to everyone out there as divine intervention and what that is in the McDonald case is that you
00:51:15
have a family of four and you have a statistical anomaly something that's extremely rare
00:51:23
where each member of the McDonald family they have a different blood type Colette
00:51:29
is a Jeffrey is B Kimberly is a b and Kristen is O what did they find at the crime scene a lot of blood
00:51:38
a lot of the victim's blood when they figured out and test all the blood in the house
00:51:44
they found that the victim's blood is located in places that it should not be if Jeffrey
00:51:51
McDonald's story is correct right so if they found some of his daughter's blood in the master bedroom that doesn't line
00:51:59
up with this story correct the bigger problem for Jeffrey McDonald is they found his blood in
00:52:06
places that it should not be according to his story another problem is they did not find his
00:52:13
blood where it should have been if you were to believe his story and that's what I call a little bit of divine
00:52:19
intervention that we had a situation that is so extremely rare like this where you could debate it until you're
00:52:27
blue in the face but at the end of the day that's God telling us this is what went down this man murdered his family
00:52:34
and he's not going to get away with it so let me rather than go hold on a second but because hold on a second I
00:52:41
know what you're saying but if we find blood like if we found the daughter's blood in the master bedroom one would
00:52:49
assume well his story just doesn't make any sense but it's like but he wouldn't have known what was happening in those
00:52:56
rooms and it's very possible that when they were attacking when The Intruders were attacking the mother that one of
00:53:04
the daughters ran in you see what I'm saying like right and that's why I don't want to go through all of the local
00:53:09
locations of where the three dead victims blood was found right because one it would take us an hour to do so
00:53:16
and this is information that is available to anyone out there if you're so inclined to go looking for it plus
00:53:23
would sound like super nerd but I'm going to point out some places that are just downright obvious where the blood
00:53:30
should not be and it you can't explain it away by one victim walking into another victim's room okay so the most
00:53:36
damning place that you're going to find dead victims blood in this case is in the living room where he says None of
00:53:44
the victims were where he was attacked by himself by three men and a woman is watching these three men attack Jeffrey
00:53:51
McDonald the problem with his story Captain is the location of the victim's blood so
00:53:57
this is Kimberly McDonald's blood and Colette's blood their blood was found on the March 1970 issue of Esquire magazine
00:54:06
why is that such a problem for Jeffrey McDonald in his story the magazine was sitting on the coffee
00:54:13
table they're supposed to be this big huge struggle between this military man and three other men in this living room
00:54:19
however the only thing that was disrupted in this entire room was the coffee table it was knocked over when
00:54:25
you knock over the coffee table the and police did this test over and over again
00:54:30
it was very difficult for them to get a situation where the coffee table fell on
00:54:36
top of the magazine and pinned the magazine so the magazine is between the edge of the coffee table and the floor
00:54:42
right now they did this reenactment multiple times and it was like one out of out of
00:54:50
dozens of times did they get the coffee table to fall in a way that the magazine
00:54:55
fell between the floor and the coffee table okay so it can happen it could happen right however according to him
00:55:03
he's already under attack in the living room that coffee table would have been knocked over while these men were
00:55:08
attacking him mind you nothing else was Disturbed in the living room their blood is found on that magazine
00:55:16
that was pinned to the floor by the coffee table so that what that tells you is their blood had to have been placed
00:55:24
on that magazine before the coffee table was knocked over that just means his story is
00:55:30
is wrong it's a lie what I'm pointing out here is is what I think believe happened is after he
00:55:40
murdered his family he came in there and knocked over the coffee table he he staged the living room to make it appear
00:55:46
like he was attacked in that room and in the process of staging the room he because he's the murderer and had his
00:55:54
blood on his hands he's now transferred the blood from his wife and from his daughter Kimberly onto the magazine
00:56:03
itself yeah it could have been him sitting there and pondering what the hell do I do
00:56:09
and where the when the blood was transferred and then he goes okay well now I need to Stage this room
00:56:15
and you know where his blood was found where it should not have been this is very troubling for Jeffrey
00:56:22
McDonald as well his blood mind you he's attacked in the living room none of his blood is found
00:56:28
in the living room at all only his wife and daughter Kimberly's blood is found in the living room on that magazine in
00:56:35
the living room his blood is located in the bedroom where Colette was killed and his blood more importantly that's
00:56:43
because I mean they find him lying next to her of course they're going to find his blood there
00:56:48
but a place where his blood should not have been found was located on the floor in the kitchen
00:56:55
right in front of the cabinet that was housing the surgical glove that's that's not good for him
00:57:03
so if we are to believe the blood evidence it appears that Colette and Kimberly were killed he goes into the
00:57:12
living room to Stage the living room to make it look like he was attacked transfers blood to the the magazine
00:57:22
then at some point he realizes I'm going to have to I'm going to have to put some
00:57:27
superficial wounds on myself or nobody's going to believe that four people broke in killed these three
00:57:33
people and did nothing to me so after he harms himself after he cuts himself he then went into the kitchen kneeled down
00:57:41
opened up the cabinet got out the surgical gloves went back into the bedroom and putting on the gloves
00:57:48
because he can't use his bare fingers to write Pig on the headboard because then
00:57:53
his fingerprints would smudge in the blood so he puts on the surgical gloves dips
00:57:59
his fingers and colettes blood and writes Pig on the headboard yeah that's a ring ring ring D is gone Deez Nuts got
00:58:09
him Helena Stokely passed away quite a while ago in fact and a lot of people have continued to believe her story
00:58:18
there's some problems with her story because when she agreed to be filmed and interviewed by two individuals she told
00:58:29
a story of what happened that night she said that her and three males went to the McDonald House the apartment he was
00:58:36
a Target they knew he was a doctor they targeted him because they knew he was a doctor they found the back door
00:58:43
unlocked they went into the home and they confronted Jeffrey McDonald in the living room
00:58:50
they were trying to get drugs from him obviously he's not going to have drugs to give them at his house so they
00:58:58
allowed him to use the kitchen phone he makes a phone call he can't get whatever they're looking for and then
00:59:05
the men attack him she says it was out of her control she didn't know anybody was going to be attacked that night she
00:59:12
just knew they were going to go they targeted this guy and they were going to get drugs from this guy
00:59:18
when that didn't happen she said the three men she was with became angry they thought they could physically force him
00:59:24
to get what they were looking for and this became the attack and then because they were all on drugs and out of their
00:59:30
minds according to the woman in the floppy hat they went on and killed McDonald's
00:59:36
family there's some issues with her story okay again nobody received a phone call from
00:59:43
Jeffrey McDonald that night his account does not say that the attackers made me call somebody made me use the phone and
00:59:50
second of all when asked what the men were using to attack Jeffrey McDonald were they using
00:59:58
a club a piece of wood a knife an ice pick nope Helena Stokely says they were using
01:00:05
their fist and I think sometimes it's hard for people to believe that anybody would come forward and I I don't
01:00:13
think that like I said when it matters when she's talking to a law enforcement she's not giving them these piece of
01:00:21
pieces of evidence to lock her up and throw away the key and it seems like she's giving more
01:00:29
details or maybe changing those details when there's some publicity involved I don't know what would motivate
01:00:38
somebody to say they were involved in the murders of an innocent wife and a pregnant wife
01:00:47
and two beautiful young daughters I don't know what would possess somebody to say those things it
01:00:56
happens a lot of time where they exclude themselves and what does she do in all every single one of the stories she
01:01:03
excludes herself I was there we're probably there for drugs and yeah maybe I said this
01:01:09
or maybe I said that but uh I didn't kill anybody that was that was the other ones
01:01:16
but we've also seen some people because they've been on drugs confessed to crimes that it was impossible for them
01:01:24
to commit so I I think some of it is um it's just really hard to believe her especially with the amount of
01:01:32
drug use that she had well and this was national news from Jump Street this was Big Time national news immediately after
01:01:42
the murders of these three individuals and so there are crime scene photos in the newspapers Jeffrey McDonald story
01:01:51
of what he told the authorities was in the newspapers she could gather a decent amount of
01:01:57
information straight from the media to corroborate some of McDonald's story but in the end she couldn't cooperate
01:02:05
the whole thing 100 percent what's interesting to me is once we go to trial she comes forward and refuses I mean she
01:02:12
testifies but refuses to testify that she was there that night she's telling all these other people that she was
01:02:19
and what what people would say and what the claim ended up being is that the prosecutor sat her down and threatened
01:02:27
her and that's why she refused to testify that her and her friends killed the McDonald family what was the threat that
01:02:36
they claimed the prosecutor threatened her with they say that he threatened to put her
01:02:41
in prison and she testified that she was there that night that she was involved in the
01:02:46
murders what kind of well I don't understand why anybody would fault a prosecutor for
01:02:51
threatening that right isn't that their job like of course if you're dumb enough to not
01:02:58
understand that if you murder someone you could go to prison uh I'm just here to remind you of that that's not a
01:03:04
threat that's the way of the world that's the way this [ __ ] works so basically he's saying hey if you confess
01:03:10
in the court of law to this murder which will then get this guy off and he goes free well guess who we're
01:03:18
going to charge then the person that we have on record in court confessing to the murder that's correct and let's top
01:03:26
that off with this here Captain because for years and years and years McDonald and his Camp have filed appeal after
01:03:33
appeal not 10 minutes ago no they've been filing appeals up until I think 2009 2012.
01:03:42
he was convicted uh tried back in 1979 they've been jamming up the courts with this with this nonsense for decades well
01:03:52
one of their claims was that an unidentified hair that was found in the hands in the grip
01:04:00
of Colette it's been unidentified for years McDonald said that hair belonged to the
01:04:09
killer to Colette's killer and for years and years and years it remained unidentified
01:04:15
then in 2006 March 10th to be exact 2006 DNA results confirmed that the hair found in Colette's right
01:04:29
hand was her own and a hair found in Colette's left hand belonged to Jeffrey McDonald so he tried
01:04:39
to use those two hairs to say I've been wrongfully convicted when and again once we figure out what
01:04:46
this evidence actually is it only points back to him and one thing that I find so absurd and
01:04:52
so strange bizarrely funny to me is Jeffrey McDonald you finding something funny he claims one that he's innocent
01:05:03
and then he went on to sue Joe McGinnis the guy that was hired to write the book
01:05:08
write the Jeffrey McDonald story he sues McGinnis because McGinnis writes a book
01:05:13
called fatal vision and in that he explains that McDonald is in fact guilty just like the courts
01:05:20
found him and he explains why he believes that McDonald was guilty he said that it was a it was The Perfect
01:05:28
Storm it was a all of this lack of sleep the working the 24-hour shift and then working again this complete lack of
01:05:36
sleep McDonald's taking diet pills or some kind of pills that McGinnis discovered impossible in other drugs
01:05:45
well one of the side effects was going into a rage so you combine that with with his
01:05:52
stresses and his lack of sleep and this side effect and he says that you know this is the perfect storm that led to
01:05:58
this man that that otherwise you don't believe would would be capable of something like this yeah but what I find
01:06:05
bizarrely funny in this case is McDonald's sues Joe McGinnis and then he tells the Press he says you
01:06:14
know this man betrayed me he was one of my best friends my girlfriend you know obviously after the murders my
01:06:22
girlfriend that I had at the time obviously cooked for him cooked for Joe McGinnis he I was betrayed by one of my
01:06:30
best friends well guess what Jeffrey McDonald there is no bigger betrayal in this world than killing your wife and
01:06:37
two daughters okay so I I I guess I don't have to ask I look I love I love that he betrayed me wow
01:06:50
sorry out of all the criminals that we've discussed on the on this show in the garage and Jeffrey McDonald is one
01:06:57
that I hate he's he's up there for me Captain he's he's on my uh do not resuscitate list
01:07:04
yeah so I I guess I don't have to ask this but if you're a betting man your bet goes towards Jeffrey McDonald
01:07:12
being guilty of killing his I will stand up on this table and shout it as loud as
01:07:17
I can this man is as guilty as I've ever seen I don't it's one of those cases I understand why it gets confusing there's
01:07:24
all these little there's all these little things that can then muddy the world yeah there's there's these little
01:07:31
things that you go wait a second but what about this what about this what about this what about this no push them
01:07:36
all aside because only one of two things happened either he killed them or The Intruders did and his blood evidence
01:07:42
tells us he was moving and manipulating that crime scene because he had to because he killed them yeah what was it
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that Denzel Washington said it's the little things that get you caught [Music] foreign
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[Music] thanks for tuning in thanks for letting us be a part of your week we love you
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make sure you follow us on Facebook Twitter Instagram at True Crime garage Colonel do we have any recommended
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reading for the beautiful people this week Captain we are recommending American Justice great crimes and trials
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by two of my favorites Paul bagg and Martin Fido this is an oldie from 1993 and this is an amazing introduction into
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True Crime American Justice features 28 different well-known True Crime cases and the authors are not only fantastic
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True Crime authors but Paul bagg and Martin Fido Fido we have recommended some of his other works on the show
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before but these two are two of the most incredible ripperologist ever plus old fans of the great TV series American
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Justice will love this book and we have this great title as well as other great titles that you will love on our
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recommended page available for your viewing and reading pleasure only at truecrime garage.com and until next week
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be good be kind and don't let it thank you foreign