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thank you [Music] [Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] I don't know [Music] when we left off yesterday Captain 11
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year old Jordan Brown was arrested for murder so what I want to do here at the top of this show is start off with a
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little more background information on Jordan and his father we're gonna go back to 1997. this is when his mother
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Mildred Krauss was pregnant with Jordan during this time she filed a protection from abuse order against Jordan's father
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Chris Brown Mildred alleged that quote he drinks heavily he uses drugs and he has such a temper when I told him I was
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going back to Florida he tore up my brother's room he also tried running me off of the road when I had the baby with
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me he told me if I ever broke up with him he would kill me end quote that is Mildred Krauss Jordan Brown's mother
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a protection of abuse from Chris Brown now we have no way of knowing whether any of Mildred's allegations are true
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although she and Chris did split up very soon after Jordan's birth Chris ended up with custody of Jordan
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however and Mildred she unfortunately became sick with cancer she says she gave up custody because she couldn't
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take care of Jordan or give him a stable upbringing Chris and Jordan were very very close and they did everything
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together Jordan's uncles describe him as a normal boy who liked video games dirt
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bikes and hunting with his dad Jordan was on a Mighty Mites football team at school we aren't privy to his school
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records because those are sealed some people say he was just a normal kid and others say
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Jordan was a bit of a bully after the murders Kenzie's family started to tell stories about Jordan Kenzie's
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brother-in-law Jason cranner recounted an episode in which his own child told him months before the murders that he
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had been playing guns with Jordan and Jordan actually told my son that he wanted to do that to her
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meaning he wanted to shoot Kinsey and her girls Jordan Brown is 11 years old is it possible that he has a little bit
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of a jealousy because he's so close with his father and now these new people are
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coming into his father's life and they're drawing attention away from him well and that's exactly what Kenzie's
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family says they believe was going on they said that there was an issue with jealousy we should point out that's not
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out of question here and one could see that that could be the situation he's 11 years old and very quickly he basically
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has a whole new family right they've only lived in that home for four months before Kenzie was shot and killed and so
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in a relatively short period of time he's now not just living with his father but he's living with his father these
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two young girls a new mom air quotes and a baby on the way in a new house so his
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little young life has changed dramatically in a very short period of time on once Kinsey's family brings up
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these ideas of jealousy law enforcement is going to adopt this theory that seems
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right here Captain the prosecutor started putting together a theory that Jordan wanted to get rid of Kenzie and
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that he was likely jealous of the new baby wanting his father and his you know life all to himself
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whatever happened with this situation where one of the kids tells an adult that Jordan wanted to do that to Kenzie
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and the girls well this seems to have been lost on Chris and Kenzie right they if if they were relayed this information
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they must have just denied it or dismissed it and then we have the situation that Jordan's attorneys they
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point out that look Chris Brown had no idea that his son had a problem with Kinsey and that's because they say he
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didn't have a problem with Kenzie police also interviewed Chris Brown's girlfriend of seven years this is
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important here because we are we're talking about an 11 year old he lived with this woman for seven years Laura
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Miller remember Chris Brown dated her from 2000 to 2007. Laura knew Jordan very well and told police that her son
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Frank and Jordan called each other brothers here are some excerpts from her recording to interview question did
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Jordan ever act out violently answer mostly he just cried question how did Jordan get along with other kids the
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answer was he was shy if he was by himself he was shy when Jordan and Frank were together they were never afraid to
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meet other kids how did you get along with Jordan this is really interesting to me because
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this is another woman that he lived with for a much longer period of Time how did
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you get along with Jordan were you afraid of him the answer is Jordan called me mommy for more than six years
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we loved each other no I was not ever afraid of him and not to interrupt you but we have to remember that Jordan was
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calling Kinsey mom next question was Frank afraid of Jordan no Frank loved him like a brother and he still does but
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Laura also told police of one fight between Jordan and Frank when Jordan was five years old and she says I remember
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on one occasion in 2002 my son Frank was playing with his toy xylophone and Jordan told him to quit I told Jordan
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that he was just playing and that he could continue playing Jordan was sitting on his dad's lap punching his
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fist into his open hand sometime later Jordan got up and ran back into the bedroom and punched Frank in the face
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Jordan then bit his own arm and said that Frank had bit him Jordan needed to learn how to deal with his emotions is
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what she said Jordan cried a lot when he was very young she said he was shy withdrawn and jealous over his dad
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during the time I knew him he lied a lot even when caught he would continue to lie
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this next story is particularly horrible so brace yourselves get ready put them ear
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balls in a seat belt because it's a bumpy ride I wish I didn't have to say this but quote I remember one time when
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Chris had found some mice in the trailer he put the mice in a bucket and went outside the trailer when I saw them
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Chris was throwing firecrackers in the bucket and both he and Jordan were laughing my son Frank was also with them
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but he was crying end quote Yeah that's what you want to do torture animals with
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your kid okay so the police have their man or their boy but now we need to flesh out a case against him that will
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stand up in court so police interviewed everyone they could think of one person of importance here Captain would be the
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school bus driver who first saw Jordan and Janessa when they were about a third of the way down the driveway walking
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toward the road right he said that he observed them coming down the driveway until they got onto the bus he said when
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they saw the bus waiting for them they both began to run toward the bus with Jordan leading Janessa by about 10 yards
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they did not act in any way unusual nor did he observe either of them leave the driveway or throw anything right because
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Janessa claims that she saw Jordan throw something when they got towards the edge
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of the driveway the children got onto the bus took their respective seats and behaved in a completely ordinary fashion
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for the duration of the ride now the only reason why I'm not going to fully believe the bus driver again not saying
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that they're a liar but the but the problem is and you know this you rode the bus for many of years as a student
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when the bus comes and the little stop sign goes out and they're they're watching the kids they're also watching
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the traffic behind them in front of them so is it possible at some point this bus
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driver took their eyes off the kid and and Jordan threw something when when the bus driver wasn't looking not to mention
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all the other kids on the bus yes this is a very distracting job um a job that I am happy that I don't do
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so I applaud those that do that job I don't know that I would have any hair left if I had that job but um yes so I
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can understand that it would be difficult for this bus driver to give a full account but the account that he
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gave there you have it he saw them for the entire time they didn't behave in any way that he thought was abnormal he
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didn't see either child throw anything or discard anything at any point that's why I kind of circle back to the whole
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thing of I want these interviews recorded because we have these statements by Trooper Wilson who says
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well in the second interview Jordan hesitated and he's changing his answer others what I really would like to know
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is by that point in the second interview he's been made aware that his stepmother
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or soon-to-be stepmother has been killed has been murdered if he is innocent that
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means that during the course of the first interview he's unaware of any of that very important information now if
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he's guilty he is aware of why the officer is interviewing him without being told that he's being interviewed
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because his soon-to-be stepmother has been murdered right I want that to be a recorded interview because I want to
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know did this kid seem nervous like beyond the point of oh you're just being asked random questions ordinary
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questions from a police officer I would think that an 11 year old boy that knew that information going into the first
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interview would have visible signs of being nervous 100 agree I think if those interviews are recorded then we have
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demeanor yes and I think that's really important and what we have here Captain is we have the Troopers going out of
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their way to explain his behavior into detail his behavior during the course of the second interview but we don't have
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the same for the first interview where he could have just been a normal little 11 year old boy that doesn't know
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something horrible has happened to his family this is going to lead us to the preliminary hearing which is really kind
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of a mini trial here this will be held on March 24th to determine if there was probable cause to bind Jordan over for
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trial the district attorney said of the evidence against Jordan I have a shotgun
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blast to the back of the head that's consistent with a 20 gauge shotgun shell I have a 20 gauge youth model in his
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room which smells like it's recently fired he's got gun residue on him I think at this point that's more than
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enough he went on describing the killing as premeditated and cold-blooded he said
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Jordan shot Kenzie put the shotgun back in his bedroom through or hid the spent shell casing in the snow and then rode
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the bus to Mohawk Elementary School which is NASA as if nothing had happened seems like it'd be hard to act normal if
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he murdered your stepmom or if you even accidentally killed her yeah and again though I think what we're pointing out
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though here Captain I get what you're saying could this have been an accident that's certainly in the realm of
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possibility the problem is when you start covering up your accident it's now murder and if he or if he planned to
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poke around down there with a gun it's he's still responsible for her death at the end of the day yes but his actions
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of covering up to me would lean more towards he's 11 years old and not 25 30 year old kid trying to cover up
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murder okay but that's not the picture that they're going to paint for us at his trial so at this trial the
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prosecution will call ten Witnesses we have a trooper that testified that test showed that Jordan's clothing taken from
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his person on the evening of February 20th these are the same items that he wore to school that day had gunshot
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residue on them he acknowledged on cross that the analyst report also stated that
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the residue this is important because you hear gunshot residue on this kid you go all right he did it let's lock him up
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and throw away the key right but on Cross it's pointed out that the gunshot residue could have resulted from any of
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the following three things discharging a firearm standing near someone who discharged a firearm or coming in
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contact with a surface that had gunshot residue on it another Trooper testified that he found a 20-gauge shotgun in
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Jordan's upstairs bedroom and it smelled as though it had recently been fired another Trooper said that there was no
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evidence of a break-in at all at the Home in fact a wad of cash was visible on a table in the bedroom and just to
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play Devil's Advocate yes no signs of break-in because all the doors were unlocked and if your purpose there was
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to murder somebody then who cares about the money that's on the table exactly you're exactly right you don't have to
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break in just walk right in right another Trooper testified that when she first talked to Jordan at school he said
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he saw a black truck near The Farmhouse that morning but thought it was for a man who came to feed livestock
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the trooper went on to say that in the second interview about 10 hours later Jordan's story changed it was now a
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truck and there was a person in a white hat inside who ducked down out of sight again I think we both agree that it it's
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adding details to a story I don't know how much it's the story changing correct I I can lean toward that
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that argument the testimony of Trooper Martin from a previous proceeding was also considered by the court and I think
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that this I don't have the exact statements that they took from Trooper Martin's statement
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but I think that this might have been about the footprints in the snow that the kids prince the two children's
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footprints coming down the driveway were the only ones around the house yeah and
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this is not a JonBenet Ramsey situation where they're saying hey there's no Footprints because there was no snow
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there was a there's a lot of snow so there should have been some kind of other Footprints yeah
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they're what I mean there wasn't a ton of snow I guess but the thing here that I have a hard time wrapping my head
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around here Captain is it continued to snow right so I mean I guess yes if you could see the children's and we're
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assuming it sounds like we're assuming we we can't say for certain right that those are the footprints of the children
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but there are two Footprints sets of footprints on the driveway could somebody have entered the home and the
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footprints gone undetected that's the trouble troubling thing right a killer doesn't necessarily have to walk up the
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driveway and go in the through the front door there's four entrances to the home
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this is a rural property someone could have entered the home from any direction on foot the Court ruled on
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March 29 2009 that there was in fact enough evidence to try Jordan for the murders yeah Jordan Brown 11 years old
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well as we said Captain we have Jordan Brown who's going to stay in that Juvenile facility for several years we
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have the court records and all the motions and trials that took place if we go through all of them here well that
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will take about as long as Jordan sat in that Juvenile Facility so we're going to
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kind of skim through this and give you the important details now in this regard there was a determination that there was
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in fact enough evidence to try Jordan for these murders they're basically saying that we've established enough
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evidence that the defendant was the killer that he acted alone the evidence indicates that on the morning of the
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shooting the father left for work leaving the defendant the victim Kinsey Houck and her children Janessa and
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Adeline in the residence of the three children only the defendant was experienced in firing a shotgun and
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removing an expended shell there were no signs of forced entry into the residence
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nor any signs of a struggle robbery or theft as a result of the light covering of snow it was observable that the only
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Footprints were those of the defendant and Janessa when they left for school at approximately 8 14 a.m there were no
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other Footprints or tire tracks of any person or vehicle that would have approached the residence during the time
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in which the killing could have occurred they go on to say that the defendant owned a 20-gauge shotgun which was found
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in his bedroom along with other guns of the Six Guns found in the bedroom the defendant's 20-gauge shotgun had the
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strong odor of gunpowder residue indicating that it had been recently fired well back to that black truck if
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there was a black truck there whether it's the man coming to feed the animals or if it's just a similar black truck
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where are the tire prints well and that's that's easily something that you can detect and get to the bottom of you
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go and interview the person that feeds the cattle right if he says he was there then you go all right well that explains
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away the black truck if he says he wasn't there well then we have a no a whole nother set of issues if in fact
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the truck was there and as you pointed out where are the tire tracks for that truck I don't not going to sit here and
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pretend that I have a great understanding of the layout of this property is it possible that there was a
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black truck there and for whatever reason later tracks are not detected I think it could be but again not having a
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good understanding of this property really limits my ability to have an opinion on that now here's where I get a
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little upset yes so they go on to cite they're citing the evidence as to why we need to try this
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kid for the murders and one of the pieces of evidence that they cite here in the court record I'll read from the
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court record here because words are important which is not Grammar it says along the path of the footprints of the
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defendant from the residence to the roadway was located a shotgun shell in pristine condition indicating it had
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been recently placed in that location a ballistics report showed that the shell was fired from the defendant's shotgun
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let me repeat that a ballistics report showed that the shell was fired from the defendant's shotgun that is not true
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that is a false statement this is in the court record and it really pisses me off because the reality
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of it and the science of it is this statement is very incorrect what the ballistics showed is that it
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could have been fired from that gun so to change the wording of that to say that it was fired from the gun is
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incredibly misleading right they go on to cite more evidence gunpowder residue is found on the clothing taken from the
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defendant at the time of his arrest this was close that he would have been wearing during the time frame of the
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murder they go on to site too that the defendant was familiar with the use of a shotgun having been observed to have
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loaded and unloaded a gun removed spent shells and to have been successful in a turkey shoot just several days before
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the killing I was a champion at shooting turkey back in my day and there's one part here too that upsets me as well
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where they're saying that of the the three people that would have been in the home the three survivors Jordan Janessa
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and Adeline that he is the only one yes we know that he operated a gun and he was familiar with with doing that but
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they say he was the only one that could do that which is again an incorrect statement right it's not true I think
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anybody with fingers and and arms could operate a gun yeah or people with long toes let me get this correct he was told
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to move his guns that day we don't know that according to Janessa's story when she sees him carrying guns down the
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stairs she asked him why he's doing that to which he replies my father told me to
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move them let's just say that part of the story is true he could have moved those guns that would be the reason he
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would have maybe this gun residue this gunpowder residue on his person that doesn't mean he fired the gun that is a
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possibility however Jordan's statements do not back up that statement of Janessa
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he doesn't say any time that he handled a gun that morning in fact he denies it that's a big problem I think in cases
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where you're interviewing children is you don't necessarily think that they're lying to cover something up but they
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just might not be telling you the truth well Jordan would sit there almost I don't want to say wasting away but he's
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sitting there in a Juvenile Detention Facility before a bench trial could take place which took place in 2012. the
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murder occurred in 2009 Jordan consistently and continually denied having anything to do with Kenzie's
00:25:05
murder and his family you know the brown side of the family anyway backed him up on this
00:25:11
now there are many reasons why it took so long but one really strange legal aspect to this case that's important to
00:25:19
the story is as follows in October of 2009 Jordan's attorneys motioned that his case should be moved
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to the juvenile court in March of 2010 which is over a year after the murders the transfer to juvenile court was
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denied because according to judge motto one no evidence connected anyone else to
00:25:41
the murders and two the judge agreed with the prosecution that since Jordan would not admit any guilt his lack of
00:25:49
Contrition meant that he would not be amendable to rehabilitation in the juvenile system
00:25:56
per the law in Pennsylvania one test of whether a criminal proceeding should be remanded to juvenile court is whether
00:26:05
the child has accepted responsibility for the underlining offense as a result of Jordan Brown's lack of acceptance of
00:26:14
responsibility he continued to insist he did not do it the judge concluded that the defense had not established that
00:26:24
Jordan was amendable to treatment and therefore was not appropriate for the juvenile system
00:26:30
so what is all that mumbo jumbo mean per a law review article that we read about
00:26:36
the law applied by judge motto quote Pennsylvania's juvenile transfer statute puts the child in a type of Catch-22
00:26:46
admit to the crime and be tried as a juvenile or maintain your innocence and be tried in the adult criminal justice
00:26:55
system which is a complete [ __ ] yes and it's the same thing they do with like parole hearings oh well if if I'm
00:27:02
telling you that I didn't kill this person but you want me to accept responsibility or you won't parole me
00:27:09
right you're in a no-win situation now it would take until March of 2011 so now we are over two years past the murders
00:27:19
that this ruling got overruled basically they're saying this is a violation of Jordan's Fifth Amendment rights against
00:27:27
self-incrimination right admit to it and get tried as a juvenile or maintain your innocence and
00:27:35
go fight it out in adult criminal justice court giant pile of horse so the reason that all of this is so important
00:27:41
is because Under Pennsylvania law if Jordan were remanded to the juvenile system instead of the adult system
00:27:49
he would remain in the juvenile system only until his 21st birthday that's if he's found guilty the juvenile court
00:27:56
only has jurisdiction until 21. at that point he's eligible for release if he's tried and convicted as an adult he could
00:28:03
spend the rest of his life in prison [Music] I don't know [Music] all right we're back Y'all Gonna Make Me
00:28:40
Lose My Mind up in here up in here cheers everybody cheers and a quick reminder if you're not
00:28:49
following us on Instagram Facebook or Twitter you want to do so you can find us on any of those
00:28:57
platforms at True Crime garage I will be sharing photos not only of the people of
00:29:02
the case but also a few of the pictures of the property so you can get a sense of what we're talking about the attorney
00:29:10
general or the AG's office would be in charge of Prosecuting the case the case against Jordan Brown they started off
00:29:20
the trial that we would end up having about three days of testimony during this trial but they started off the
00:29:26
trial by reminding the court of all the evidence that had been relied on in the previous hearings and reminding them
00:29:34
that we the state established that a juvenile's gun was used to kill the victim gunshot residue was on Jordan's
00:29:41
shirt and pants the police focused on him because he was the most likely perpetrator all other possibilities were
00:29:49
eliminated okay I'm gonna stay on this and I'm sorry if I upset anyone but I'm going to stay on
00:29:56
it because it really upsets me you get them Goat Boy again here's the line we established that a juvenile's gun was
00:30:03
used to kill the victim no you established that a gun was used to kill the victim not a gun that was
00:30:09
specifically built for a juvenile to use again you can control thought by manipulating
00:30:19
language if you can control language you essentially can control thought and by choosing to use these words and putting
00:30:27
out incorrect statements and sentences at the trial you are painting a much different picture
00:30:36
it was established that a shotgun was used to kill the victim not that a juvenile's gun was used to kill the
00:30:43
victim then the prosecution explains why other possibilities were eliminated yeah
00:30:48
they say for someone else to be the killer other than Jordan Brown the AG's office said they would have had to know
00:30:55
where the family lived which was a remote location that they had not lived in very long
00:30:59
they had to know that the gun was kept in Jordan's upstairs room know that the ammunition for that gun was kept in
00:31:07
Kenzie's room successfully go into her room without waking her get the ammunition kill her and return the gun
00:31:14
to Jordan's bedroom the person would have had to have left without leaving Footprints or tire
00:31:20
tracks all of this within a half an hour okay so let's clear some of that up actually it was an hour it wasn't a half
00:31:28
an hour right uh let's get our words right here we're talking about sentencing somebody to prison for the
00:31:34
rest of their life 11 year old yeah and again the wording on this they would have had to have known where
00:31:42
the family lived okay I get that they would have had to have known that the gun was kept in Jordan's upstairs room
00:31:48
again you've not established that that gun is the actual murder weapon right know that the ammunition for the gun was
00:31:54
kept in Kenzie's room again you've not established that the ammunition that came from that armoire actually is the
00:32:01
ammunition that killed for killed her what we do know scientifically Captain is that gun could have been used to kill
00:32:08
her the ammunition could have been used to kill her right and that we know that that firearm was fired recently they're
00:32:16
presenting all of this as fact when all actuality it's just possibilities one hold on a second one of the things I
00:32:24
think like the defense is maybe maybe they didn't miss this but didn't he fire and kill some turkey
00:32:32
recently yeah he was a successful at that turkey shoot that was six days before and if I'm the defense that's what I'm
00:32:40
arguing that's when the firearm was fired so basically the AG's office is saying that someone inside the house is
00:32:47
responsible and there's no other reasonable suspect and he is the only reasonable suspect I'll try to bring
00:32:56
this up for the last time of this case I agree with you so much on the interviews being actually taped to know
00:33:07
what his demeanor was that first interview would have been crucial they also pointed out that
00:33:12
premeditation existed in this murder because once Janessa saw Jordan with the gun he went back upstairs and covered it
00:33:20
up with a blanket before coming back down he also took a shell from the box downstairs this required deliberately
00:33:28
loading the gun to shoot Kenzie so basically if you have any length at time you're doing all these actions to shoot
00:33:36
her this proves that it's premeditated whoever used the gun to kill Kinsey then put the gun back upstairs
00:33:44
again we've not 100 satisfied me or anybody that that was absolutely the gun that was used
00:33:53
basically what they're trying to tell us here Captain is this is it that morning
00:33:59
for whatever reason it could have been the jealousy a whole lot of other reasons we don't know but this 11 year
00:34:05
old decided he was going to go downstairs with his gun that he recently got as a Christmas gift and shoot his
00:34:13
soon-to-be stepmother person that he calls Mom they're saying that he put a blanket the the blanket
00:34:21
that was later found with the hole in it over the gun so that he could conceal the shotgun either from his
00:34:30
from the girls living in the house or from Kinsey herself right he has to go into her bedroom where she's lying on
00:34:38
the bed asleep open up the armoire take out a shotgun shell load the gun put it to the back of her head pull the trigger
00:34:48
then go back upstairs wipe the gun down unload the shell do the hokey pokey put the shotgun back in its place cover it
00:34:58
up with the orange blanket along with the other five guns and then as he's leaving to go catch the school bus with
00:35:05
Janessa he then throws down the the shell some of the evidence at the house being
00:35:13
the blanket with the hole in it and the blood that is on the frame the door frame which is the front entrance to the
00:35:20
home to which Chris Brown has already told investigators nobody in the house ever used the front door and according
00:35:28
to Janessa and Jordan Brown they went out the side door that morning so yes maybe he could have touched the door
00:35:35
frame prior to leaving the house that day but according to their statements they went
00:35:40
out the side door right and that's both of their statements is there touch DNA evidence on the on
00:35:46
the blanket do we know that that hole is from a gunshot well that's where we get
00:35:51
to Jordan's defense so his defense team is going to do their best to contradict the quote-unquote evidence presented by
00:35:58
the prosecution they acknowledge that the shell found was consistent with Jordan's gun but there was no evidence
00:36:05
that it was actually fired by that gun the gun smelling like gunpowder could be residual from the turkey shoot
00:36:14
the blanket was subsequently subjected to microscopic examination and Chemical Testing and no gunshot residue or blood
00:36:22
was found on it this is important because according to their Theory the hole in the blanket is
00:36:30
because he left the the blanket concealing the shotgun as he shot her that's the only reasonable explanation
00:36:38
for this hole in the blanket why would there not be blowback spatter or gunshot residue because their theories wrong on
00:36:47
this gun or on the blanket more importantly right they go on to say that no fingerprints
00:36:54
or DNA linked Jordan to anything this this is one that that's tricky for me it sounds good for the defense
00:37:03
look no DNA no fingerprints link him to anything so meaning none of his prints or DNA was found on the gun I actually
00:37:12
have a big problem with that and a big problem with it for the defense if this was his gun and he had used it
00:37:18
recently I would expect to to find fingerprints his fingerprints on the gun but you did not that actually to me
00:37:27
suggests that possibly this gun was used for the murder and maybe somebody wiped
00:37:32
this gun down before returning it to its rightful place yeah a wiper the GSR found on Jordan was microscopic amounts
00:37:40
there was one particle on each of his shirt and pants and of course we've already been told that it's possible
00:37:46
that that could have been transferred from another item or another surface and they
00:37:51
point out specifically his winter coat because we know that he wore that same winter coat at the turkey shoot just six
00:37:58
days before they also pointed out that the family routinely used the property for target practice so spent shells were
00:38:05
all over the place and police found a couple of them on the property Jordan had no prior juvenile record or History
00:38:12
of Violence he was close with his father and had no mental issues or diagnosis and it's not realistic to think that an
00:38:20
11 year old is sophisticated enough to carry out this crime while leaving so little evidence behind that is the
00:38:27
defense's argument there's so many moving pieces and parts to this case it's almost like law enforcement
00:38:33
dismissed any idea of an intruder Theory to begin with I like to know more about
00:38:40
the people that were in Kinsey's life well that's a good segue here Captain because I have another suspect for you
00:38:47
we say that they exhausted all other possibilities well one thing that was not clear was how much possible emphasis
00:38:55
Jordan's defense team placed on other possible suspects at this trial and there was probably a good suspect
00:39:05
here there's one that at least raised some eyebrows I know that and the day of the murder February 20th 2009 the state
00:39:13
police put out an APB for an Adam Harvey Harvey was Kenzie's ex of six years and
00:39:23
police were well aware that the two of them had a fraught history at the time of the murder Kenzie her parents her
00:39:31
sister and her brother-in-law all had a three-year protection from abuse order against Adam Harvey this was issued
00:39:40
after an incident in February of 2008 this is a year before the murder when Harvey who was living in North Carolina
00:39:47
called Kenzie's mother and threatened to take her whole family out this was the second
00:39:56
protection order issued the first was issued in May of 2006 after Kinsey reported that Harvey abused her and said
00:40:04
things that involved threatening to kill her or have her killed by his friends he also physically attacked Kenzie and
00:40:12
he and his brother threatened to kill her after this Kenzie and Harvey reconciled and then moved to North
00:40:20
Carolina but soon he resumed his abusive ways and began accumulating guns Kenzie
00:40:27
left him and took Janessa and Adeline who was born while Kenzie was in the relationship with Harvey and moved back
00:40:34
to Wampum New Galilee to be with her family Harvey moved back to that area in October of 2008 so this is just months
00:40:45
before someone killed Kenzie Harvey lived within 10 miles of Kenzie Chris Brown testified that he and Kenzie
00:40:53
deliberately chose to have an unlisted phone number at the house they rented to make sure that Harvey could not contact
00:41:00
them Chris once listened to 12 voicemails Adam Harvey left for Kenzie in which he repeatedly threatened her
00:41:07
and her family that's 12 voicemails too many he also left numerous voicemails for her mom and Debbie threatening
00:41:14
Kenzie and everyone else so very clearly Kenzie was afraid of her ex Adam Harvest
00:41:21
little piece of evidence or a nugget of information I think is really important that two weeks before the murder Harvey
00:41:30
received a paternity test stating that he the the four-year-old daughter that he thought
00:41:37
was his was not his exactly and the other thing we should note here as well is that Adam Harvey drove a black pickup
00:41:45
truck oh [ __ ] back they did track him down now mind you this is interesting on
00:41:51
the same day that she's murdered they put out an APB for this man they're looking for him
00:41:56
that's where their minds go to immediately after finding her killed regardless of what they're seeing at the
00:42:02
scene all these things that they say later pointed to an inside job now they tracked him down and voluntarily he
00:42:10
spoke to the police or that's the statement that we have is that he voluntarily came to talk to the police
00:42:15
this was after the police confronted him at an intersection they noted that his black truck had a light coating of snow
00:42:23
on it and the snow was dirty Harvey was taken to the state police barracks and interviewed at 12 I'm sorry
00:42:31
and interviewed around 2 20 p.m on the day of the murders he admitted that he was surprised by the paternity test
00:42:40
results and that he and Kenzie argued over child support payments but he told police that he didn't know
00:42:47
where Kinsey lived and besides he said he had an alibi for the morning of the shooting he had been at home in the
00:42:54
basement of his parents house where he lived since 10 pm he says the previous evening and that the only way out of the
00:43:01
house was through the upstairs through an upstairs door where his dad was his dad would have seen him leave and his
00:43:08
father says that he never saw Harvey leave between 10 pm the night before and the time in question I don't like these
00:43:16
Alibis I spousal Alibis or family alibis uh nope I don't I don't buy them it's not an alibi to me per the court record
00:43:29
Harvey's hands were tested at the time by investigators for presence of gunshot residue but none was detected based on
00:43:37
his profit Alibi and the presence of snow on the truck which the investigators opinion suggested that he
00:43:44
could not have driven to Wampum a dis a distance of about eight to ten miles away and then back without all the snow
00:43:52
coming off so they say that the snow evidence on his truck no gunshot residue on his person and The Alibi
00:44:01
uh being at his parents home seems to be enough for them to have moved on from from Harvey well he could
00:44:08
have used the blanket himself and then therefore there would be no gun residue on his person yeah possibly
00:44:15
I'm just a little confused why there's no scientific evidence on the blanket itself
00:44:21
it makes right you can't I don't think you can have it both ways right you cannot say that he used it to conceal
00:44:28
the shotgun and I'm assuming their statement is that he continued to cover the shotgun when he fired it
00:44:37
and that's how the blanket got the hole in it but the problem with that is why is
00:44:43
there no gun evidence or blood evidence on that blanket when you're telling me the pathologist is saying that the gun
00:44:49
was two inches or less from the victim when it was fired it just it doesn't ring
00:44:56
true and you can't have it both ways so either that blanket has nothing to do with the murder at all I mean that's
00:45:04
what the the scientific evidence would suggest right or it was not used in the manner that they are implying that it
00:45:11
was used well I see our blog posts blowing up this week again that's a truecramblegarage.com
00:45:18
I can't get over the fact that this guy one ex-boyfriend he's abusive but can't get over the black truck Jordan is
00:45:29
saying I saw this black truck it's not the guy that I normally see in a black truck that's similar to this
00:45:35
and the fact that Jordan told people about this black truck before he was even interviewed by law enforcement yeah
00:45:41
it's difficult and this whole case to me is difficult because of the evidence or the lack thereof and
00:45:49
again it goes back to well how do you paint the picture and the way that they paint the picture is as such that it was
00:45:58
that gun in his room that was used it was the ammunition that was in Kenzie's room that was used to kill her and
00:46:03
because of those factors those key factors and then Janessa saying I saw him with the gun and I saw him Chuck
00:46:11
something into the yard when we ran to the bus well then that makes him your Prime Suspect however in reality is it's
00:46:19
never proven that that was the gun that was used it was never proven that that shell casing was the ammunition that was
00:46:25
used to kill Kenzie you have Janessa's changing stories she's seven years old is it possible that somebody entered the
00:46:36
home through an unlocked door shot and killed this woman and then turned around and walked out and for
00:46:44
whatever reason nobody detected tire tracks or footprints the bullet casing that they found in the yard that
00:46:52
Jordan Brown chucked according to Janessa as they ran out to the school bus was found underneath snow
00:47:01
so it's also not crazy to think that there's potential other evidence that was then covered by snow after the
00:47:10
murders in my opinion because the prosecution controlled the language controlled the narrative
00:47:15
that's how they got the guilty verdict that they got against Jordan Brown yes he's found to be guilty and
00:47:24
after the trial we have Jack Hauck who is Kenzie's father who called Jordan evil he stated quote I hope he gets the
00:47:31
help he needs the kids got a problem and we have her mother Debbie who told the media he's guilty and my only reaction
00:47:39
is yes he should have been found guilty but it ain't bringing back Kenzie and the baby
00:47:46
so Jordan is remanded to the custody of the juvenile facility until the age of 21.
00:47:54
now under state law during his juvenile treatment Jordan would receive counseling and would also be evaluated
00:48:01
every six months for possible release per the juvenile act every six months the judge gets in effect a progress
00:48:08
report on the child to determine if Jordan is fully rehabilitated and releasable
00:48:15
but at the latest he would get out in August of 2018 when he would be turning 21 years of age this is one of the
00:48:26
things that makes the case so difficult because if you believe that Jordan Brown
00:48:30
is responsible for the murder of his stepmom and his half sibling that him getting out of
00:48:41
prison when he's 21 is not Justice and that Jordan Brown got away with murder on the other hand if you don't think
00:48:50
Jordan Brown is responsible for the murders and you believe suspects like Adam Harvey
00:48:59
should have been looked into more then you can view that situation as Adam Harvey getting away with murder well and
00:49:08
after the conviction we're going to take Jordan's case all the way you know up the courts as they say and we're going
00:49:15
to appeal this and we're going to appeal that and we're going to challenge the ruling we're going to challenge the
00:49:19
verdict and continue to plea our case that Jordan is innocent and did not commit this murder now
00:49:28
Jordan's arguments to the Supreme Court are as follows that the gun in the shell
00:49:36
in regard to the gun in the Shell the Supreme Court agreed with Jordan that the evidence of the
00:49:44
record did not support the juvenile Court's conclusion that the 20-gauge shotgun recovered from the upstairs
00:49:51
bedroom was the murder weapon the Supreme Court agreed that the 20-gauge shotgun shell which was
00:49:58
recovered from an area in which Jordan and his father had routinely shot such weapons on previous occasions was found
00:50:05
buried under snow covered ice and leaves raised a doubt as to whether it had been
00:50:11
fired from the shotgun on the day of the murder also the school bus driver did not see him throw anything
00:50:19
further Jordan in his arguments to the Supreme Court points out that the Firearms expert could not directly link
00:50:26
the pellets recovered from the victim's body to the shotgun taken from Jordan's room the test he ran
00:50:33
showed only that the pellets recovered from the victim's skull were quote consistent end quote in their size shape
00:50:40
weight and material with the pellets and the unfired shotgun shell located inside
00:50:45
the armoire the Firearms expert testified that Smooth Bore shotguns unlike rifles or pistols have no unique
00:50:54
grooves in their barrels and hence they do not produce any identifying marks on shotgun shell pellets discharged from a
00:51:03
particular shotgun as a result he could not perform an individualized comparison
00:51:09
analysis of the pellets which were recovered from the victim's body with the pellets in the box of shells located
00:51:17
in the armoire that's a really long way of saying they were not able to determine if that ammunition was used to
00:51:26
kill her right which they said in their theory that they presented at court that
00:51:31
that ammunition did kill her they're also not able to prove that the gun was fired on that day
00:51:37
that the gun was used to commit that murder they presented it as it was and so basically what we're going to end up
00:51:46
having here Captain because I could go through about seven or eight more pages of this stuff
00:51:51
in the end what they are going to determine is that these items they don't necessarily weigh
00:52:02
stronger one way or another do they they don't necessarily suggest guilt or innocence they're all kind of just 50
00:52:10
50. these are the facts of the case yes there were guns in the house a similar type gun was used to kill the
00:52:17
victim yes there was ammunition in the house a similar type ammunition was used to kill the victim
00:52:23
but you can't put all these things together and string them along and say that yes this happened this was used and
00:52:31
this was used by this person to kill this person you can't weigh one way or the other
00:52:37
in an opinion or a determination of the facts hold on to your seat for one of the most frustrating endings of a case
00:52:46
so like we said he was charged he gets out of prison charged tried and convicted yes
00:52:54
but but because of these appeals here captain what we end up with is the Supreme Court
00:52:59
of Pennsylvania the Western Western District would ultimately hand down a verdict in 2018. this is after nine and
00:53:07
a half years of legal back and forth and three appeals the court unanimously threw out Jordan's conviction it
00:53:15
overturned the original guilty verdict the Supreme Court ruled that the Commonwealth's evidence was insufficient
00:53:21
as a matter of law to overcome Jordan's presumption of innocence in fact the court concluded the forensic evidence
00:53:30
and witness testimony could go either way being that they were consistent with two possibilities his guilt and his
00:53:40
innocence but by them throwing out his conviction you would think that the state then wants to go after
00:53:47
a different suspect but it doesn't seem like the state's doing much to solve this this case well it's really uncommon
00:53:56
for this to even go down the way that it did to begin with and although the court
00:54:01
did not go so far even though they threw out his conviction they didn't go so far
00:54:06
as to declare that Jordan was innocent it did reverse the juvenile Court's adjudication of his delinquency because
00:54:14
there was not enough evidence to convict him again a rare occurrence but because
00:54:20
he had already been tried for the murders now Double Jeopardy is attached and Jordan cannot be tried again so
00:54:30
he's free as you said uh but he was actually already released before they overturned his conviction as it turned
00:54:39
out pursuant to one of the every six months reviews that were called for by law when Jordan was found guilty he had
00:54:49
already been released when this ruling came down he was released in June of 2016 at the age of 18. he was released
00:54:56
from juvenile custody custody and placed on probation in the custody of an uncle
00:55:02
who lived in Ohio when he turned 21 he would be released from the probation so he got out of got
00:55:09
out of prison was on this probation and would have been off of the probation when he turned 21 but before that
00:55:17
the Supreme Court ruling changed everything and again it overturned his conviction and he would no longer have
00:55:26
the guilty verdict hanging over his head or on his record but it's unsatisfying isn't it Captain that's what she said
00:55:33
this whole case this whole story all of the trials all the legal stuff the shifting
00:55:39
it's all very unsatisfying because at the end of the day we don't know who is responsible for
00:55:46
these murders the state spent so much time telling us that Jordan Brown was the one responsible for these murders
00:55:52
and then the defense in the appeals process later tells us well we can't really determine who in fact was
00:55:59
responsible well basically telling us that Jordan we can't determine if he is actually responsible just that there's
00:56:07
not enough evidence to convict him so now you have if you were to present this story this
00:56:14
real life True Crime Story to a room of 100 people you're going to have 50 of them to say he's guilty as hell and he
00:56:21
got off easy and you're gonna have the other 50 people that are probably going to say they didn't find the right guy
00:56:27
they didn't get the right guy and the real killer is still out there but after presenting all the evidence is there
00:56:34
something that sticks out to you that maybe sways you one way or another there are severe
00:56:43
concerns I have about some of the statements and possible evidence in this case first off I don't like the
00:56:53
contradicting stories of Jordan and the bus driver and Jordan's story Janessa is ahead of
00:57:03
him when he sees this truck that's parked by the garage when the officer asked him did you tell Janessa about the
00:57:10
truck he says I attempted to but I don't think she heard me because she was too far ahead of me by this point the bus
00:57:18
driver says that when he sees the kids running down the driveway to get to the bus
00:57:24
that Jordan was in front of Janessa by about 10 yards according to the bus driver
00:57:31
in Janessa's story she says that she saw Jordan Chuck the shotgun shell or Chuck something
00:57:39
down toward the ground while they were running on the driveway well if Jordan is behind her
00:57:46
she can't see him Chuck anything so when we have three people telling us a story here
00:57:57
factual if we are to believe that only one of them would be lying or believe that there's consist inconsistencies in
00:58:04
their story well two of their stories are matching up and that's not Jordan's version of those
00:58:11
stories what's matching up is Janessa's version along with the bus driver's version of that story so that doesn't
00:58:19
look real good for Jordan in my opinion I have some very strong questions about that part of this story
00:58:26
I also have major concerns that I've already voiced time and time again about this blanket that was found we're told
00:58:33
by the state that it was a big part of the case and a big part of the murders yet there's no scientific evidence to
00:58:40
suggest that it had anything to do with the murders at all so that's a real kind
00:58:45
of convoluted part of this story the other thing that I want to point out too that we pointed out in episode one that
00:58:52
that we talked about briefly but we didn't go into detail of we have the story of Adeline that that
00:59:00
changes throughout the years when she originally spoke with police on the day of the murder now mind you she's four
00:59:08
years old all right so we need to take this with a grain of salt but when she spoke with the officers on the day of
00:59:14
the murders she said that she was up for a while she watched TV she ate some food
00:59:19
in the kitchen and then it was when she heard her mother's phone ring that she went into Kenzie's room to find her dad
00:59:27
when she tells the story to 2020 years later she says that she wakes up to a loud boom
00:59:36
which would be possibly a shotgun blast I don't know I can't make heads or tails
00:59:42
of which one is is correct it doesn't did she hear shotgun blast wake up and then eat some food watch TV for a little
00:59:51
bit and then does not go into the room until the phone rings that's a possibility
00:59:57
but the story's changing and and the the problem of having little kids basically filling out the
01:00:06
blanks for you has really left me kind of confused in this story as to what I think possibly happened
01:00:12
the black truck because Jordan could have easily said yeah the black truck there's a guy that
01:00:21
comes and feeds the animals that's who I saw he didn't say that he went a step further and said it looks like the same
01:00:28
truck but it wasn't that guy and the fact that you have a protection order against
01:00:35
abusive [ __ ] already threatened to kill her and her family multiple times that would lead me away from
01:00:47
Jordan being guilty but I don't think this case is that clear-cut and I think you could study this one for a very long
01:00:54
time and flip flop on on whether you thought he was innocent or guilty I don't think it's that clear-cut in
01:01:04
this case it's not it definitely is not and it's one that I've struggled with for the
01:01:10
past week I will leave everybody with this you know one of this is a crucial element in the case
01:01:17
I believe and as we pointed out in episode one the time frame the timeline is very crucial to this case and every
01:01:27
minute counts and we have the story and this comes from Jordan when he's first asked by the officers
01:01:38
from Trooper Wilson's report quote when asked what time it was Jordan Brown stated that they usually leave the house
01:01:47
at 8 12 but since his mom was telling them they needed to go or they were going to be late he stated that it was
01:01:54
probably 8 13 or 8 14. everyone's statements are that the bus came to pick them up at 8 12 to 8 15
01:02:03
every morning one thing that I think is very interesting and I wonder why it is missing from
01:02:12
the trial was that Janessa was never asked to testify about her statements about that
01:02:20
morning and we do know that those statements seem to have changed or morphed through the course of multiple
01:02:27
interviews she's not asked to testify what she witnessed that morning and I think that that is key here
01:02:38
because if you really believed her if you were the state and you really believed
01:02:44
everything that she told you which was one of the things that led to the arrest of Jordan Brown well wouldn't you use
01:02:50
that in Your Arsenal against this guy to convict him the obvious answer is yes but they did
01:02:56
not why does she at any point did she at any point back up Jordan's statement of
01:03:05
well I heard Kenzie yell I heard my mother yell that we were going to be late that
01:03:12
we need to go outside or we're going to be late or we're going to miss the bus if she were to back up Jordan Brown's
01:03:19
statement then that would have gave him approximately two to three minutes to go
01:03:24
upstairs retrieve the gun cover it with the blanket go downstairs find the ammunition load it point it to the back
01:03:32
of her head pull the trigger and Janessa does not hear the shotgun go off and then he goes back upstairs unloads the
01:03:39
gun wipes it down puts it away and then runs out the front door and Chucks the shell casing as he's running to the
01:03:48
bus gets on the bus and then behaves like nothing happened at all it seems very very doubtful to me that
01:03:58
that could have went down in a matter of two to three minutes whatever side of the fence you're on whether you think
01:04:04
he's guilty or innocent somebody got away with murder [Music] this case leaves a lot of questions we
01:04:27
want to hear your thoughts and opinions go to truecrimegarage.com and leave those on the blog Colonel do we have any
01:04:34
recommended reading this week for the beautiful listeners this week we are recommending the spy and the trader the
01:04:40
greatest Espionage story of the Cold War by Ben McIntyre You're Gonna Love This Book I'm about halfway through this one
01:04:49
here captain and excited to recommend it to everyone out there so check out the spy and the trader the greatest
01:04:54
Espionage story of the Cold War by Ben McIntyre you can find that great title and many more recommendations on our
01:05:01
recommended page at truecrime garage.com and until next week you beautiful people
01:05:06
be good be kind and don't litter foreign [Music]