00:00:11
[Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:00:52
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always the president of the Celine Dion fan club he is the captain
00:00:59
is that girl thank you so much it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for
00:01:06
telling a friend [Music] tonight we are drinking off the leash shamefully good Texas Red Ale By the
00:01:17
Fantastic people at Noble Ray Brewing Company in Dallas Texas garage grade 4 out of five bottle caps you hear the
00:01:25
thunder the thunder and lightning in the garage tonight you know Captain I have to admit when we get to Texas it's very
00:01:32
hard to select a beer for the show they make such great beer down in Texas there's so many to choose from this is
00:01:38
just another great one so make sure you try some off the leash Texas Red Ale and
00:01:43
thanks for everybody for filling up the fridge a big shout out to Rebecca out in
00:01:47
Kansas next we have Haley and Onalaska Wisconsin and Judy out in kalana Illinois I think that's how you say it
00:01:54
we like your gym and a big shout out to Anna from London she says that she loves
00:01:59
the way that we pronounce British place names I think she means how we mispronounce the British place names
00:02:06
thank you Anna and we have Heather in our hometown seba sir Columbus she's suggesting that we do a meet up one of
00:02:13
our fine breweries we also want to give a shout out to Kayla and Jordan up in Michigan you know I love that we have so
00:02:19
many couples that listen together to the garage and last but not least we have Adam in Shreveport Louisiana well that's
00:02:27
just so romantic so thanks everybody for filling up the fridge for this week's show if you want to buy us around for
00:02:33
next week's show go to True Crime garage.com and click on the Donate button for everything social media
00:02:38
Snapchat Twitter Facebook Instagram all that stuff at True Crime garage and that's enough of the business everybody
00:02:44
gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime grab your Lover's hand
00:02:51
foreign [Music] Bale died and passed away in October of 1962 she was found dead in a river near her
00:03:07
home in Lake Charles Louisiana Sharon Hensley she's been missing since February of
00:03:15
1973. she went missing off the coast of Key West Florida Annette Carver Vale missing since
00:03:22
October 1984 from Tulsa Oklahoma what's the one thing that these women have in common they were all married or
00:03:30
had an intimate relationship with Felix Vale Gina we've been talking about Felix Vale
00:03:36
and earlier we covered the mysterious death of his first wife now you said that they had had a son together and she
00:03:45
died just months after he was born whatever become of his son oh gosh Bill his son bill was Bill was
00:03:56
born I think in July and his first wife Mary was killed in October so he was literally months four months old I think
00:04:05
and so bill has a aunt in Louisiana that takes him and keeps him for a while not not a
00:04:14
long while maybe a year and then Bill takes him and moves back home to Mississippi with his mom and dad and
00:04:23
stay there for a little while maybe a year maybe two not very long and so his mom probably is raising the sun then
00:04:32
Felix takes off and heads to California this is when he really starts just traveling all over very nomadic like
00:04:40
I've said and he takes off and goes to California at some point he comes back and he gets his child bill this toddler
00:04:48
and he says hey this is my kid I'm taking my kid I'm going to be the dad you know
00:04:54
[ __ ] he took that kid because he goes off of California he's living the true hippie
00:05:01
lifestyle and they're they're roaming around you know the hate Ashbury District I mean
00:05:08
everything it's it's definitely you know the time Life Magazine of the hippie lifestyle that's
00:05:15
what Felix is doing at this stage but he learned quickly that he could take his son bill
00:05:22
and use him as a pawn to get the things he needed to survive okay housing food women drugs whatever it is
00:05:32
he needs oh look at me I'm a single dad um I mean it's the ultimate chick magnet
00:05:38
look at me I'm a single dad with this little you know towheaded baby and and oh my wife tragically died by accidental
00:05:46
drowning and I'm just trying to survive and you know here light up and pop this and we'll
00:05:53
babysit your kid while you go screw her and you know whatever and it was I mean unfortunately for Bill
00:06:03
but it was a genius on Felix's part it really was for the Deviant piece of [ __ ]
00:06:08
that he is it was a genius move so Felix has his son bill with him but they're they're definitely not living a
00:06:16
traditional home family lifestyle and Bill stays with him until he's like eight or nine or so but what what
00:06:24
happens at this point they're on this Orchard in California in Merced California and he said there's
00:06:36
this little farm boy that he's talking to and he's like you know I just I don't like living like this I want a home I
00:06:42
want to eat I haven't eaten in two weeks I've had nothing but grapes for two weeks literally
00:06:48
and this farm boy said you should go to the police and tell them so Bill literally gets on the road and walks
00:06:56
like two or three miles down the road and finds the police station and says hey my dad
00:07:04
is doing all this I'm tired of taking drugs I mean sad tragic tragic story I'm tired of living this way oh by the way
00:07:12
I heard him tell his girlfriend that he killed my mom and the police were like whoa so that's
00:07:19
the first time the investigation is reopened into Mary vale's death okay and this is 1970. Louisiana comes to
00:07:29
California interviews no I don't know what happened but nothing happened it just it was dead in the water
00:07:36
horrible choice of words right there but um the police hear this this story from
00:07:43
this little boy that his father had killed his mom and now they're going to go talk they're going to go talk to
00:07:51
Felix they put him on them I don't know what kind of pills they were I don't I think it was LSD I
00:08:04
don't know what they had on it but they had drugs on them so they charge them convict them for drugs and that's when
00:08:09
he gets put on probation and his mom I think bailed him out you know they get they get money to get
00:08:17
bailed out of jail and his mom did it well at that stage Bill his son goes back to Mississippi
00:08:23
and lives with Felix's mom and dad and was from that point on raised by his mom and dad
00:08:31
um Felix showed up I don't know a year later Kim and Sharon show up at the farm and
00:08:38
Bill sees him and is just petrified totally petrified he's afraid that his dad is going to kill him
00:08:46
because he turned him over to the police you got a feel for this little boy here
00:08:51
what ends up happening with Bill his son was raised in a Christian home and went on to college met a Christian woman
00:09:01
they married they were strong Christians unfortunately bill passed away I think it was in 2009
00:09:08
of cancer and but he had a family of his own I think three sons basically really didn't have anything to
00:09:17
do with his dad because he knew the truth in fact there's we have a audio tape of Bill talking to his preacher at
00:09:27
his church because he knew I think at this stage he knew he wasn't going to live that much longer because of the
00:09:31
cancer they had and so he he told his preacher to audio tape professional you know and and talks
00:09:40
about his growing up and how he was treated by his dad and just being drugs all over
00:09:47
the state of California you know living in a tent and then turned him in and the
00:09:52
confession that he made because when Felix told Sharon that he killed his mother Bill heard that
00:10:00
but Felix didn't know he heard it until bill went to the cops in Merced California and turned them in that's
00:10:07
when he found out and that's why when Felix showed up that very first time back at the farm bill was so scared he
00:10:13
thought he was going to kill him because of what he did you know what he had said
00:10:15
to the cops but that that time he showed up Sharon was already gone and he told Bill he said you don't have
00:10:27
to worry about her anymore I fixed her something along the lines of I fixed her to where
00:10:34
she won't tell anybody anything so Felix having killed his first wife do you think Gina do you
00:10:42
think that once he met these other women and once they became involved with him in a long-term relationship that Felix
00:10:49
was of the mindset that you know I'm just going to use this person up and however this relationship ends it's
00:10:56
going to end on my terms you know did he was their fate sealed when they met him and got involved with
00:11:04
him were they already dead in his mind at the end of that relationship yeah he you know I'm gonna be on the fence on
00:11:11
that one and I know that's the dumbest answer you could hope for the reason I say that is back in the
00:11:17
very beginning when I first met him I would have said oh yeah definitely but you know you're young and eager in the
00:11:21
case and you know it's early on and you're like oh yeah this guy just set up and
00:11:25
kill all these women I don't think that's the case to be honest with you and the reason I say that
00:11:30
today is because since then I have learned that there were so many other women he was
00:11:37
married like seven times and there were so many other women from the death of his first wife Mary
00:11:44
hortendale to after The Disappearance of Annette Veil his third his last wife or the the
00:11:55
I think that is his last wife but after The Disappearance of Annette that there were so many other women that
00:12:02
we were unaware of until just in the past year maybe two that he had a long-term relationship
00:12:09
with he married them and there was domestic violence but they were able to escape so he didn't set out
00:12:18
thinking like the one woman and I I won't divulge their names because they are still around they're still living
00:12:24
and the privacy issues if it's out there in the media go after it that's great but I'm not going to be the one to put
00:12:31
it out there um but these women one woman you know he was choking in the shower and it was
00:12:37
upstairs and and her brother was downstairs and heard the commotion he comes up and him and Felix getting a
00:12:43
fight you know he's saving his sister so if one if her brother wasn't there he he
00:12:48
could have very easily and he probably would have killed her I I there's no doubt in my mind that he would have
00:12:53
killed her but I don't think he set out in that relationship saying okay when I'm done with her and used her up
00:13:00
and got all I can out of her I'm going to kill her I don't think that's his intention I think what happened
00:13:05
is when the relay when he because all of these other women that are still out there that had a
00:13:11
relationship with him whether they experience domestic violence at his hands or not
00:13:18
I think I don't think he set out to kill each one of them to end the relationship but
00:13:23
I think if he was in it long enough they were very short relationship one woman he was married to for one month
00:13:30
you know one woman he was with for a couple of months they were very very short relationships
00:13:34
I think if they were a year or better they would have ended up dead Gina with all of your experience and I know you've
00:13:42
covered a lot of domestic cases during your career and some of them turn violent what is
00:13:49
the difference between Felix who is a killer and someone that is just prone to violence there there
00:13:58
[ __ ] out of their girlfriend or wife and they there's a certain threshold they
00:14:02
they'll stop at Felix you know you push that button and they're like okay you're getting the
00:14:07
[ __ ] beat out of you and I might break your nose and bust your lip but I'm gonna stop when I'm when I feel you've
00:14:13
had enough Felix doesn't stop until they're dead so once that button of his is pushed
00:14:19
he carries it through to the end those women that are still living are lucky I believe there's one more victim out
00:14:28
there that's a good possibility I mean given the the length of this timeline here and with how many women he claims
00:14:34
to have had relationships with we've seen how some of these have ended but why do you believe there's another
00:14:40
victim out there the whole time I talked to him he only said one name completely
00:14:46
I've never been able to find her and precing things together my theory is that it was after The Disappearance of Sharon
00:14:57
but before he met Annette so in the 70s he was traveling and Hiking through Colorado and he met up with a group of
00:15:05
people and this is stuff he told me and he he was very much into live food me and of course I'm like live food what
00:15:14
are you talking about you eat you catch a rabbit and just eat it and not kill it
00:15:17
I mean what do you do you know what and no live food the way he explains it is you go again like to an orchard you
00:15:25
know great Vineyard and you pull the grapes right off the tree and you eat them right there that's as fresh as they
00:15:30
can be okay that makes sense I asked him I said well do you ever have again it was one of those times I want
00:15:36
to provoke him and see what he would say do you ever eat meat I mean how do you do live food if you're eating meat well
00:15:43
he steered clear of it and then I asked him again at another stage in the conversation and I said
00:15:49
what do you eat like sushi is that like food you know as a joke and he said no but he during this camping
00:15:55
trip in Colorado his whole life was like a extended camping trip I think the one point he tells me about a woman
00:16:03
he met up with and of course I have to hear all the graphic details about all the sex they had while they're camping
00:16:08
and you know all the detail s and then at another stage of the conversation when I'm talking about the
00:16:15
live food and I jokingly talk about sushi you know and meat he makes a reference it's a weird
00:16:22
reference and he says no but you know I've tried it once before and um it's just it just wasn't pulling
00:16:30
my thing and I got the feeling that it was while he was with these people in Colorado and he was talking about
00:16:38
drinking blood and he claims it was an animal but he wasn't very clear he was very very vague about all of this
00:16:46
so my assumption is I I can't help but Wonder wait wait wait wait a second so what are you saying are you saying that
00:16:51
Felix killed a woman and then drank her blood did he push this woman to the edge
00:16:57
and kill her and decide just to try it you know just to see what it was like he was very I believe him
00:17:04
when he said tried it and I didn't like it I do believe that but what was it that he
00:17:10
tried because he wasn't specific he didn't say oh it was a doe it was a rabbit it was a squirrel he just said it
00:17:16
was an animal you know he was and he's a very he's very detail oriented but he was very vague in that
00:17:24
so I it's in your mind you know but I couple that with this story he tells me about
00:17:30
this woman and the fact that I can't find her anywhere in existence at all and he was Smitten by her and it all
00:17:40
coincides together and I can't help but wonder if she's another victim that has just been never been identified
00:17:47
and it would be very easy for her to slip through the cracks because she came from Sweden according to him and they
00:17:56
immediately connected and she you know went her separate way you know his cryptic ending of the relationship
00:18:05
it was very similar yeah we see this time and time again with Felix he has these lengthy relationships with these
00:18:11
women and then they just supposedly leave on their own yet they're never seen or heard from again and
00:18:18
wonder if that in the Colorado trip and the live food with the blood and everything all coincides the timing just
00:18:26
fits so that's that's that story for what it's worth was there anything incriminating
00:18:32
that Felix had said to you or what did you get from him that they were able to use at his trial
00:18:39
um that was used in court or that could have been used in court that was beneficial to the the case
00:18:49
however when he was arrested I was able to continue the undercover operation for several months after that by writing
00:19:00
letters and then talking to him on the phone from jail he would call me you know the reason I did that was because
00:19:07
we knew the journals were there the but we we couldn't get to them and law enforcement had come down in May to
00:19:17
arrest him and they had a warrant obviously for his arrest but then they had a warrant to
00:19:23
search his property for the journals well they were from Louisiana and in the state of Texas there's some law
00:19:30
that does not allow journals to be obtained with the search warrant whatever the law is you know I don't I
00:19:41
don't know those that's for the attorneys so they come down here and this warrant says you know what we're
00:19:46
looking for are personal journals and letters and things like that and the judge here in Texas said nope not
00:19:52
signing off on this because it's against our law okay fine so basically all they
00:19:56
could do is they all they could do was arrest them and that's all they did their warrant won't allow them to get
00:20:02
the journals but you've established a relationship with him you think you can get this information so I wrote him a
00:20:08
letter in jail and I said I said hey at this stage in our relationship our plan was I told him I was divorced and that I
00:20:17
didn't have custody of my kid and I had gotten a big inheritance and I bought an
00:20:22
RV and I was just gonna go sit at the beach and you know disconnect and I wanted him to come with
00:20:29
me and of course he was all over that and so that's how we left it and then of course when he's getting arrested
00:20:37
then I said how do I make contact with him to let him know that hey I'm still here
00:20:44
and just see what happens because I was there when he was arrested I was taking the pictures but I had a hat on I had my
00:20:51
hair pulled back I had a big camera in front of my face so he didn't know it was me but at the
00:20:56
time I didn't know that he didn't know it was me I wasn't sure so I wrote him a letter as my character
00:21:04
and I said hey I went by to see you your neighbor said you got arrested I saw it
00:21:09
on the internet oh my God what happened and he immediately writes back and he's like oh it's so great to hear from you I
00:21:15
you know I'm getting railroaded and it's a conspiracy you know that's been his story the whole time
00:21:20
so I knew that he didn't know that was me behind the camera so I was like okay let's ride this Pony
00:21:27
out and see how long it'll last so I thought I've got to get permission to get into
00:21:35
onto his property that's all I needed once I'm on there I'll do whatever the hell I want
00:21:41
so I asked him I said where's your truck what do you need me to do do I need to go and like turn off the electricity or
00:21:49
carry out trash or anything what do I need to do I'm I'm at your disposal and so he writes back he said yes
00:21:56
he said I want you to go and get my truck it's impounded the Sheriff's Department
00:22:00
and then the keys for everything is on is on the truck key ring go to my place then of course he had this like honeydew
00:22:09
list you know mow the grass and patch a hole in the roof and there's a tree that
00:22:13
fell over that needs to be righted all these things and I'm thinking I'm not doing that [ __ ] you know I'm going in
00:22:19
I'm going to snoop through everything so whatever and so of course I'm all over it and at
00:22:26
this point we're writing and he's calling me so every Saturday he would call me and then I'd get probably a
00:22:31
letter a week from him so it took about a week 10 days to get you have to get permission you know signed to release
00:22:37
the truck to me so I get that and I go on a Friday afternoon and my husband had taken me over there
00:22:46
you know he's followed me and we dropped my car because I wasn't going to take anything off the property I didn't have
00:22:51
permission to remove anything I wasn't going to remove everything but I was going to photograph every damn
00:22:56
thing the man owned so I went prepared and that's exactly what I did and the first day I get over there it's about
00:23:03
four o'clock five o'clock in the afternoon and my husband left me there and with my vehicle and he had taken off
00:23:13
and went back home so I'm looking looking and I'm just I'm not I'm looking for the journals and I'm
00:23:18
not finding them at all and so I called my husband and I said hey we're I'm not finding them I'm gonna go
00:23:26
on it's like 10 o'clock at this point I said I'm gonna go on and come home and I'll just come back tomorrow because
00:23:31
there are a few things that I hadn't looked through well there's this one tote like a big
00:23:36
plastic storage tote that I kept overlooking because I thought tools were in it from another time that I was in there it
00:23:44
looked like tools were in this tote so I just kept ignoring it and but I kept going back to it so I'm just gonna
00:23:52
look in there and there was stuff piled on it so I set the stuff aside I opened it and it's full of all his journals
00:23:59
30 journals in there the mother lode and so of course I'm ecstatic at this point
00:24:05
this was in a part of the shed that was a storage room on the back side but there was no locking door or anything
00:24:11
I put it inside the main part of the shed so I could lock it up because I didn't know what was going to happen he
00:24:18
had been arrested about two or three weeks at this point and I didn't know if there were going to be
00:24:24
vandals you know somebody torched the place I didn't know you know so I wanted to secure him as best I could without
00:24:30
removing them from the property so I did and I go back the next day and I spent 16 hours photographing all the journals
00:24:37
because also I didn't know when or if my cover was going to be blown and once he tells me you cannot go back
00:24:46
on the property I couldn't go back on the property without trespassing obviously my main goal was to get all
00:24:53
the data from the journals fast as possible possible and that's what I did that Saturday I went back and
00:24:59
it was 16 hours and I just started photographing Pages page after page and every single page
00:25:05
that he wrote down I photographed and then he had a little file cabinet and I went through there and he had things
00:25:10
that were important to the trial like Annette's original birth certificate he had the letters
00:25:18
that he had written to his mother about The Disappearance of Sharon he had the original letters there
00:25:25
things like that so I took photographs of all that so those came into play during the trial we'll get right back to
00:25:31
Gina frenzel private investigator investigating serial killer Felix Vale right after this quick beer break
00:25:38
foreign [Music] Felix's journals there's so much you know I woke up today at 7 45 I had a banana and blueberry
00:26:07
smoothie at 8 45 I did 72 sit-ups and I mean it's it's ridiculously mundane but then every once in a while he'll
00:26:16
just interject something and you're like whoa wait a minute so it's almost like you have to go through them all and I'll
00:26:21
be real honest with you I have not read them all the very first journal entry is
00:26:26
December 31st 1984. a net disappeared in October of 1984. everything prior to that is missing
00:26:36
and then you get into the 90s and there's a couple of years missing but then then it starts back up again
00:26:44
and you're like wait a minute so we've kind of figured out a pattern that obviously he got rid of things that
00:26:51
were incriminating in the 90s he dated this woman and there were some domestic violence I think
00:26:57
associated with it and so my assumption is okay obviously he wrote about it and he thought
00:27:04
oh I'm going to get rid of it and got rid of it and I thought to myself why for for like a year
00:27:11
I thought to myself why is it that every single thing from 1984 back is just missing and right we
00:27:20
need to find stuff prior to 1984 because this is when these disappearances and the murders took place so you're able
00:27:28
through reading his journals to figure out that there's a time period where he moves back into his parents home and he
00:27:34
had always kept a lot of his things at his parents home after his mother passes away he has to leave so you're able to
00:27:42
trace these things to the addict of his parents home and didn't you come across a section in his journals where he talks
00:27:50
and discusses about getting rid of these items all of the things he has kept in his parents attic forever and ever which
00:27:57
were the journals and he's burning them and he's reminiscing as he's burning them
00:28:08
and one of the things and it's really it's insignificant stuff except one section and he says and I'm paraphrasing
00:28:15
but he he basically he says you know with this whole family situation of arguing with you know the family
00:28:25
member by the nickname of Bunchie arguing with Bunchy and you know his wife and you know about the estate and
00:28:31
all this I have learned to and then also reflecting back on everything in my past
00:28:38
life while I'm reading the journals and then burning them he's basically saying all
00:28:44
this in his journal he and this is not a paraphrase he says I have learned how to resolve conflict without
00:28:52
resorting to murder we were thankful enough that Gina sent us a bunch of the audio from her undercover work when she
00:28:59
was sitting with Felix in his home interviewing him he's being recorded he does not know we found this next clip to
00:29:07
be very insightful regarding his character swear on their life that our government
00:29:15
never has or never will have a squad to kill people suicide I mean you know like uh assassination Squad
00:29:25
yeah that they think the Arabs do or everybody Hitler and Russia really oh [ __ ] our
00:29:34
government's got so many different well the Recon Marines is one and he was a he was a Recon Marine is
00:29:42
that what scared you about no no I'd be scared hell yeah oh it's just the thing that scared me about him and her
00:29:52
boat was these uh these blind spots that their ego protects they're willing to fight to the
00:30:02
death to protect you from attacking those blind spots yeah they don't want to hear about it did they ever come
00:30:09
after you physically no oh it's just a verbal type of attack that would be scary he uh
00:30:19
he thought about it a couple of times oh my God I reminded him who I am and so that's all it took he's he's
00:30:30
scared of me he doesn't know he didn't know how much I know about killing myself you know about
00:30:37
killing people learning pain whatever incapacitating and I don't know I've studied
00:30:46
10 15 different forms of martial arts that gives us a chance to hear Felix's voice to get a get a feel for his
00:30:54
mannerisms and how he's talking to Gina in in some of the conversations they had
00:30:59
the thing here is though he the the important thing is listen to how he responds when somebody has a problem
00:31:06
with him there's a guy that has a problem with him from a previous relationship and he states that guy does
00:31:13
not know what I know about killing about killing people very telling about Felix's character unfortunately Gina did
00:31:21
not get that Smoking Gun material from Felix he never stated anything that was highly incriminating regarding the death
00:31:30
of his first wife his second wife for The Disappearance of any other woman however there were some things that she
00:31:36
was able to provide to the state that they used as evidence at his trial as far as the under
00:31:45
[Music] ground that that they were able to introduce like the letters that he wrote
00:31:56
about The Disappearance of Sharon fact that he had Annette's um original birth certificate and her passport
00:32:05
picture um those types of things that was key because they were able to introduce
00:32:11
this law and I think it's like a 404 b or 401b I can't remember the name of it but basically it allows the state to
00:32:20
introduce during the trial previous bad Acts and part of that was The Disappearance of Sharon and
00:32:29
Annette and part of their disappearance and their story of The Disappearance were
00:32:36
the inconsistencies of the you know the letter that I found and the passport photo and the original birth certificate
00:32:42
you know he says oh she took off with these guys to travel all over well she didn't have her passport she didn't have
00:32:48
her birth certificate a time she didn't have a driver's license so those were her
00:32:52
identifications and she didn't have them with her you know those types of things
00:32:57
so that was what I was able to bring to the table as far as my undercover work on the case Felix Vale is arrested for
00:33:04
the murder of his first wife Mary hortonvale before the trial takes place Gina is in town now she suspects that
00:33:12
her cover may have been blown because this point we have newspaper articles there's all kinds of stories coming out
00:33:18
about this case she goes to the prison to speak with Felix and confront him to find out if he
00:33:26
knows what she knows how are you I'm I'm not very good how are you me neither me
00:33:32
neither but I'm here right now so uh what's going on what's what's the deal nothing just the circus yeah
00:33:43
like this is not the country I was born in yeah well what what I want to know I mean I
00:33:50
want to know what's happening okay what I don't know I my best guess is that it's uh some kind of circus
00:33:59
you know that I have gotten plucked up into yeah you know it's it's not there's no
00:34:08
real legal stuff going on they have they they're there's a lot of stuff out there
00:34:14
I know and it's all [ __ ] there's uh what what they're saying get ideas didn't even happen
00:34:25
nothing nothing happened you know uh my wife fell out of a boat 50 years ago and
00:34:33
drowned in a river and and that's the only thing that they're even that's even halfway factual
00:34:44
what about the other women what about them yeah what about them I don't know I mean I've dated like uh
00:34:52
several hundred maybe in my lifetime 74. I don't know where any of them are I don't I I've never
00:35:01
you know there's a couple of them that I found mentally interesting and I I hadn't I made an agreement with them
00:35:08
what do you mean an agreement uh an agreement that that we would look each other up in
00:35:17
about five years and have some conversation to see what either of us had had learned in any time if you know
00:35:27
and and that never happened and none of them well I did I looked one of them up and
00:35:34
I'm not going to tell you anything I mean I I looked one of them up and and she was married to a guy and didn't want
00:35:44
to have any conversation with me so that was it I'm you know about a five minute
00:35:48
visit and where I met her husband and hugged them both and and uh well that was that your wife and that no no there
00:35:57
was not uh there's just so much out there in the media there's so I don't care listen listen I don't know that's
00:36:04
why I want you to tell me what I don't have what I don't have a a computer because nine it's I don't
00:36:11
know what percentage but a way majority of the information out there on the net is just stuff that people are playing
00:36:21
with well then tell me what happened I don't know what happened what what happened what what do you mean you don't
00:36:27
know I don't know where did she go I don't know I don't know where any of them went or are
00:36:33
I you know I found them uh every woman that I have ever been with I left them when I left them or they
00:36:41
left me they were they they were healthier and smarter than when I met them what about that's the only common
00:36:52
denominator there is well you know you're the common denominator well sure you know
00:37:00
tell me what why are they pointing the thing at you with Sharon in the net also they're saying that you had something to
00:37:08
do with them disappearing why why why did the three people who started the rumor that there was foul played when my
00:37:16
wife first wife fell out the boat why did those three people get together and we're storing people
00:37:28
uh one of them that was in the boat that picked her up that wanted to screw her before I married her and was resented
00:37:34
the hell out of the fact that I got her and he didn't okay that's one another one was and listen wait a minute
00:37:42
I'm getting there okay another one was uh insurance adjuster or whatever we had travel
00:37:50
insurance because we were had been in Mexico and we're going again all right so he didn't want to pay off any kind of
00:37:58
policy so he got together with the guy in the boat and they found another guy who was a Hot Shot lawyer fresh out of
00:38:09
it had to be fresh out of lawyer school at the time whose wife had come to my bed
00:38:17
before she married him and didn't tell him about it until after they were married and so he was gunning for me
00:38:24
also those three people got together and they convinced the district attorney at
00:38:29
that time to do you know to try to put together a case okay all right look they tried they
00:38:38
went they got four deputies to go beat in the bushes and talking to all kind of people yeah and all right
00:38:45
take those four deputies did try to do the same thing that this little writer out of Jackson Gary Mitchell yeah yeah
00:38:53
that's slimeball uh these four deputies tried to do the same thing that he did except they didn't have his talent
00:39:02
that guy's got some okay but that was 51 years ago okay so what so now they've they've they've reopened obviously
00:39:10
reopened this case I mean look okay listen there was no case they tried to make okay those four deputies
00:39:17
if they didn't have something to put you here with they go to court on facts I know exactly
00:39:25
no they don't not here this is Calcasieu Parish Louisiana wake up wake up you know what you wake up I've
00:39:34
seen the pictures of Mary's body yeah yeah have you no I haven't asked your attorney because I've seen
00:39:42
him okay so what so what what about them ask your attorney you need to see those
00:39:48
pictures who took them I don't know who took them but they were taken 51 years ago when her body was pulled out of that
00:39:53
River all right who who took them though I don't know did the coroner take them I
00:39:58
had no idea they call them no they were not taken by the corner because she wasn't even out of the river yet
00:40:06
okay so they can't use them in court I don't know I have no idea I do they're using them anyway but they think I'm
00:40:12
they think I'm ignorant enough not to know that well when you look at those pictures that's sure it's all doesn't
00:40:16
look like an accident to me have you ever seen a floater that came out of the Calcasieu River with all the
00:40:24
debris and sunken barges and everything it's got on the bottom of it yeah but I'm not talking about that
00:40:31
well I I have I'm not talking about streaks and scratches and crab bites and things like that that's not what I'm
00:40:37
talking about you need to see those pictures I I have not seen them yet I would like to see
00:40:44
them so what tell me about sharing I don't know anything about Jerry you're telling me that she just you know the
00:40:51
story is that she just failed off into the I don't know why I don't know where she is or where she went
00:40:58
any more than I do any of the other 200 or whatever I'm talking about the 200 [Music]
00:41:07
one time I tried to count them up and I lost counters about 200. in in my lifetime that's irrelevant I'm
00:41:15
talking about the ones that are in the media okay yeah the media I don't know I don't know any more about them than I do
00:41:20
the others what about the jacket that Mary was wearing that white jacket that she was
00:41:26
wearing I don't know anything about it I don't remember you should have talked about it I have not remembered what kind
00:41:32
of clothes we had on I don't I had no idea that she had a scarf on I didn't remember that
00:41:40
you your original statements typically said that she was wearing a jacket when they off and when her daughter this week
00:41:48
no I didn't say this I said your state your original statement for the police 50 years ago oh and then he was wearing
00:41:55
a jacket in the accident report yeah well then that's probably accurate I don't remember
00:42:01
what happened I don't know I didn't I didn't remember that you had one on I mean if if I said that at the time then
00:42:09
she probably did well she weren't naked and we find her body and she doesn't have a jacket on
00:42:15
okay well I don't know anything about that and then Sharon you have different stories
00:42:23
you have different stories of who she left with I don't know who's I don't remember who she left with I gave it my
00:42:29
best shot when her mother who she didn't like her mother shipped her off she got
00:42:36
pregnant and her mother said you know that shipped her off and you know to avoid religious embarrassment because
00:42:43
her mother was really strange that was long after yogurt okay you know Karen didn't want to be around I went with
00:42:50
Sharon one time to visit her folks and they they had uh you know we were there a couple of days I think and
00:43:00
she tried to have one conversation with her mother that did not work out very well and didn't try anymore she talked
00:43:08
with her brother some and her father probably about the same amount that she did with her mother
00:43:15
which was like 15 minutes or something so what happened what happened why did she just take off what did she take off
00:43:22
from I don't know I don't remember I mean you know some some place where Boats were that we were
00:43:30
playing with some boat people what were their names but you said oh I don't know I don't know I don't remember
00:43:37
I I probably I might have guessed at the time that I tried to you know I mean at
00:43:44
the time I don't think you would know no I I didn't want to go with them all right I'm not taking this [ __ ] they were
00:43:53
swinging people and I didn't want to go with them you knew back then I don't know but I
00:44:02
did I might have I I gave it my best shot and what about in that you said you put
00:44:08
it on a bus in St Louis I remember that yes but I don't know I don't know the names
00:44:15
of the people that she left with beautiful people on the bus well yeah you know like people see now no we had just met
00:44:25
him at the zoo we were walking around at the zoo and we met these people that were uh
00:44:31
three guys three guys and two girls one girl two girls oh [Music] oh they were going
00:44:48
South America you know yeah they were going south she wanted to go south she was ready
00:44:56
I we we had you know listen she the only reason we married was so that she wouldn't get taken away
00:45:06
from me while we were traveling okay one one point we were in some country and um when we weren't married and they
00:45:15
almost took her away from me okay well I can understand why why would she why would you not go with her y'all were
00:45:24
together for a long time oh no we were together off and on like just like Sharon when I and several other women
00:45:31
that that traveled with me or stayed periods of time with me then they would go be with other people
00:45:39
for periods of time and they would some of them would come back you know Annette and Sharon were two of the ones
00:45:47
that periodically would come look me up wherever I was well I thought they were together all the time because they oh no
00:45:56
no oh so so when she just she just gets on the bus says I'm gonna go with these people I just met so for sure she'd done
00:46:04
it before and that was the last time you saw her yeah yes it was you know I don't believe that well you
00:46:15
don't have to believe it I don't care who believes it I mean now I'm I'm just shooting from the hip I have been from
00:46:20
the start yeah not not like you of course excuse me from the hip you know it's your job no I am pretty pretty dead on
00:46:30
and I get what I'm going after I I hope you're getting paid well no not a single
00:46:36
dime not a single Bond yeah yeah what's your motive Justice the wrong place I don't think so you have to shoot Bears
00:46:51
Louisiana I think I'm in the right place I'm on this side of the garden yeah Justice is a joke here they make up
00:46:58
their own they make up their own log they're breaking several federal laws by even having me in here they've got no
00:47:05
they've got no probable cause there's nothing because they have sexual evidence be like sexual evidence actual
00:47:13
they have no factual evidence of anything yeah they do or they wouldn't have been able to get an indictment on
00:47:20
you that's not true you know in any other place it would be true you know what I was told you know that that's I
00:47:26
know that I'm the only person that really knows that have nothing because nothing I have done nothing bad to
00:47:33
anybody no listen I slap one woman she slapped me three times first and I told her each time don't do that again
00:47:53
third time I slapped her so she would stop slapping me okay that's the one woman yeah I've ever had and it's not
00:48:01
that's okay no listen there was two different times I studied martial arts when I got when I wanted to
00:48:08
travel I didn't want to be paranoid about getting robbed so and I've only had to use it twice one
00:48:16
time three guys jumped me coming out of a restaurant with a date and they were going to knock me out and take my date
00:48:22
and my money and and they they would listen they were not successful with that another time I was walking down the
00:48:30
street with a woman a date and four guys jumped me and they were not successful either
00:48:40
one of them held my date up against the building while three of them tried to take me down I walked them out in the
00:48:47
middle of the street where we were stopping traffic and when people when traffic stopped on both sides of us with
00:48:54
their headlights on it was nice blowing their horns these guys freaked out and ran and turned us Luke okay but what
00:49:01
does that happen okay I'm just telling you that's the only two times in my life that I had used violence and it was both
00:49:09
times exactly that that's it I'm not a criminal I'm not a bad person I have not been violent I'm not well you
00:49:21
know you you didn't respond other than that this person when there are that when
00:49:26
there are court records that show that you beat the beat the [ __ ] out of best fields you beat the crap out of her
00:49:33
there's no reason how is she able to get a restraining order against okay she she
00:49:40
called me down to the courthouse and I got in a room with her and two two or three guys to know
00:49:51
and we sat there and talked for 30 for like 15 10 15 minutes and then and she told them
00:49:59
her version of what happened I told him my version of what happened they weren't
00:50:03
that far apart that was not that was not true okay so so after like 10 or 15 minutes it was
00:50:15
all of us talking we were all laughing the the two deputies and Beth and myself saw all laughing okay
00:50:24
the end of story you know no no uh forget it okay so I'm I'm walk out and I go to get in my truck Beth follows me
00:50:34
out and and halfway to my truck and asked me if she can come home with me and does and we screw each other's
00:50:42
brains out for a couple of days it's that doesn't matter that's okay that doesn't matter to you no it doesn't
00:50:48
matter but the fact is [ __ ] there was enough evidence for her to get a restraining order and shoot I mean
00:50:54
her story maybe maybe there was enough but she didn't I mean that was not that was the end of it
00:51:01
but you're just you're just making you you sound like you read Jerry Mitchell's said no you know I read the Tulsa
00:51:12
Oklahoma police report okay that file okay listen on a net okay I have read every police report every case File ever
00:51:22
written about you okay yeah I don't get my information don't you forget you think it's all true
00:51:28
I know it's all true you know don't forget that very first day that I met you what did I tell you I
00:51:36
did as a for a living and that's exactly it and that is still what I do for a living
00:51:43
I don't try to blame other people for mine so you're a female Don Quixote sure you call me what you want
00:51:50
what'd you do to them all those years in Oklahoma yeah what did you do to him I know what
00:51:57
you did tell him I have confirmation what you did too you think I hadn't talked to him from from who
00:52:04
and and they told you that I did some stuff to them yeah and you kind of pulled yourself told on yourself too in
00:52:10
those journals wow yeah a baby set them yeah you did want one babysit them nope you're never gonna admit anything that
00:52:24
you've done are you what anything that I've done I mean everything in your life is always
00:52:31
somebody else's fault that's amazing everything in your life is always somebody else's fault didn't it no no no
00:52:38
no yeah you sound like a Serial thing like I'm not ethereal anything you've made a cereal thing out of me
00:52:48
though in your mind and so you're not interested in the truth you're you're tell me the truth I know no you dance
00:52:56
around with [ __ ] and ego crap tell me the facts yeah tell me the facts I have and no because you say well I don't
00:53:04
remember [ __ ] you remember you don't want to tell me I I tell you I don't remember when I don't we had a lot of
00:53:11
fun together all three of us I'm sure pedophiles have fun no no no no no no I'm I'm uh you don't like the labels
00:53:18
I'm not that I've never done that yes you have yes you have where where you're you're
00:53:24
so so why you want me to tell you the facts and then when I do you're you're telling me
00:53:32
that I'm fine you are lying Felix you are I am an investigator and that's what I
00:53:39
do I find out information and I go after it and I prove it either right or wrong
00:53:43
okay and I have proven more things right about you than wrong and now is your chance to tell me whether it's true or
00:53:51
not and I have told you what's true but you won't explain anything away you just
00:53:56
gloss over it there's nothing that I have done that needs to be explained away yeah
00:54:04
okay let's go back to a Mac what about her okay you said the last time you saw her you put her on a bus that's true
00:54:11
three weeks later she was seen with you in another location yeah we have witnesses to that yeah
00:54:19
yeah you're gonna tell me this thing in blue right here because the goddamn sure is
00:54:25
it is it's a fact and and these witnesses that saw us together three weeks after yeah three
00:54:34
weeks after what after you're saying you put her on a bus a number what the date was or that but I
00:54:42
know but you were on record early on in the investigation with Tulsa Police Department I don't I don't know about
00:54:50
you know I don't know about the accuracy of it I mean the bottom line is you know
00:54:55
you know you can sit here and get past all your ego crap but the bottom line is in the bottom of your heart you know
00:55:02
you're never getting out of here you know that so why not just tell the other two
00:55:08
families about where their women are so that they can sleep at night do you sleep at night
00:55:16
do you yeah it is incredible you're incredible absolutely I'm damn sure am incredible
00:55:23
that's right um you know you're never getting out of here I do you're never getting out of here
00:55:37
you're never going to get out of here so why not just give the families closure they had no right to arrest me
00:55:46
[ __ ] they didn't have it you do not have the right to take someone else's life no of
00:55:54
course not and you have why the only time I even thought any other people were the two
00:56:02
times that I told you about that's a lie that one well okay that's [Music] well that was intense right
00:56:19
can you imagine going into the jailhouse or the prison to confront a guy that is
00:56:27
going to face charges well in the other fascinating thing here Captain is we have yes Gina is a private investigator
00:56:34
that is what she does for her career but if you heard early in the interview she
00:56:39
says that from time to time she will take on these cold cases pro bono because she she wants Justice for these
00:56:46
families you know she's essentially doing what a lot of the armchair detectives and web sleuthors wish they
00:56:53
could be out doing right the difference here is she put herself in in the way of
00:56:59
harm you know she put herself in the Lion's Den she went and knocked on his door and sat in his home and spoke with
00:57:06
somebody that she suspected to be a multiple murderer right and had to stare in his eyes and uh smell his Bo yeah
00:57:12
yeah well ultimately Felix Vale was convicted of the murder of his first wife Mary hortonvale who was found
00:57:19
decades before dead in a river near their home unfortunately regarding The Disappearance of Sharon Hensley and
00:57:28
Annette Carver Vale there's been no justice in those two cases I do want to point out some people that that really
00:57:35
made this come true you know this this is something that should have been worked out decades before it would have
00:57:42
never gotten done if it wasn't for people like Gina frenzel the private investigator that we spoke with Jerry
00:57:49
Mitchell the investigative journalist who kept these stories alive and the mother of Annette Mary Rose now Mary
00:57:57
Rose has stated that she is disappointed that they didn't have enough evidence to
00:58:02
charge Felix with The Disappearance or death of her daughter you know but she has some closure in the
00:58:11
fact that she knows that the man she suspects and has always suspected of killing her daughter is now in prison
00:58:18
and he will be there until the day he dies well and one of the things that I just find so
00:58:24
fascinating coming from the True Crime world is how many audiobooks have we listened
00:58:29
to how many podcasts have we listened to how many books have we read and we get we dive into a case and we start doing a
00:58:38
little bit of work ourselves and it was the same thing here private private investigator or not
00:58:44
that that's what happened she read this book she got invested and then she did work and she was able to uncover some
00:58:53
stuff for the for the prosecution she became a witness for the prosecution um very interesting story and then to
00:59:02
have her being confronted and so it's a tough cookie right that to have her confront him at the end of the day in
00:59:10
jail before the trial um I'm sure when he saw uh her at trial uh he almost pooped his pants
00:59:21
well I do want to point out here uh that that the cases like this provide hope and should provide hope to families and
00:59:30
friends and communities of lost loved ones from years ago a case doesn't have to go cold and I want to thank Mary Rose
00:59:38
Jerry Mitchell and especially Gina frenzel for working this case and and bringing that hope back to all of us
00:59:46
that look into these cold cases and we just want to thank private investigator Gina for talking with us and we we were
00:59:54
interested in this bringing this as a story or episodes to our show just to kind of show a different side you know
01:00:01
uh instead of us just sitting in the garage and talking there's there's a lot of different facets of the investigation
01:00:08
process to bring Justice that are definitely interesting uh do we have a recommended reading for this week uh yes
01:00:14
this week we are recommending American Kingpin by Nick Bilton uh in 2011 a program grammar launched the ultimate
01:00:22
free market called The Silk Road on a website hosted on the dark web where anyone could trade drugs hacking
01:00:29
software forged passports counterfeit money poisons without Big Brother keeping an eye on things after a while
01:00:37
the media got wind and the new website where teenagers dealers hackers and terrorists could buy and sell Contraband
01:00:44
detection free was investigated this is the true story of the Epic hunt for the criminal mastermind behind the Silk Road
01:00:52
so check out American Kingpin by Nick Bilton and you can do that by going to our website truecrime garage.com click
01:01:00
on the recommended page you'll see all of our recommended books and movies there and if you want to purchase
01:01:04
anything just use our Amazon banner I want to thank you Captain for another great week here in the garage well maybe
01:01:10
next week you'll let me talk we will we'll think about that and I want to thank everybody for listening
01:01:16
subscribing telling a friend and all the wonderful five star reviews we love love
01:01:21
you we love you we love you we'll see you back here next week in the garage and until then be good be kind and don't
01:01:27
listen [Music]