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GameChanger [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
00:01:41
you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me is always ladies and gentlemen
00:01:47
the pride of Columbus he is the captain I'm also the pride of low Massachusetts where it's always good to be seen and
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good to see you thanks for listening and thanks for telling a friend [Music] we are drinking James B's premium loga
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garage grade three out of five bottle caps this is a European style logger made with the finest pilsner malts
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fermented at a much cooler temperature and matured longer than other loggers resulting in a crisp a very crispy
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logger today's beer was brought to us by these crispy Critters first up we have Miz Mel's tattoos a big shout out to
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Stacy and lugerville Texas not to be confused with snugville and here's a double longdistance cheers to Scott and
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his girlfriend Sarah in Mount Prospect Illinois cheers cheers and a big we like you jib to Andrew and Greenville South
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Carolina and a shout out to Brandon all the way in Bay of Plenty over New Zealand and last but not least a cheers
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to our friend Rachel P who is on bed rest where is Rachel these days Captain is like Lakewood Ohio maybe I don't
00:02:59
think we should should give out her information anyway it's somewhere in Northeast Ohio so congratulations to
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button all right gather around grab a chair grab a beer and let's talk some true
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[Music] crime [Music] [Music] in The Disappearance of 3-year-old William Terrell now we spoke about the
00:04:28
Dynamics of his family yesterday he has biological parents he has foster parents
00:04:34
the three-year-old went missing while in the care of his foster parents at the grandmother's home now the parents the
00:04:42
foster parents have not been without suspicion because especially very early on in this investigation the public
00:04:50
wanted to know one why can't we learn the identity of these parents and two what are what else are they hiding mhm
00:05:00
so the parents agreed to an interview this took place in April of 2015 it's my understanding that this was
00:05:08
a police interview and this was released to the public and there's some interesting answers and questions here
00:05:17
during the course of this interview now I want you to keep in mind when you listen to this that not only have the um
00:05:25
the identities been been hidden from the public in this interview you can watch video of this but you're just going to
00:05:32
see shadow images of these two individuals and the voices that you are hearing have been altered to further
00:05:40
disguise the identity of these two people we're just going to read the questions from the interviewer because
00:05:45
those are the hardest to hear and also the audio at the beginning isn't so great but it gets better as the
00:05:51
interview goes along the first question that is posed by the interviewer is he asked the foster parents to explain to
00:05:59
the public public this whole process you know this is a very high-profile case he's asking them to tell the public what
00:06:07
it is like to walk a mile in their shoes and what they have been through it's like it's the never ending nightmare we
00:06:15
wake up we we we just relive it it's just it's I just can't believe it's happened
00:06:22
it's um we we we just don't have our boy we just he's we have no idea where he is we
00:06:31
don't know who's got him we don't know what's happening to him we know nothing about it we just want it to be over now
00:06:39
there's been a lot of people that have taken this interview and they've kind of tore it apart and really analyzed the
00:06:45
answers that the foster parents are giving to these questions and that first question there is one that has been
00:06:53
scrutinized quite a bit where people question the Foster mother stating where she states that we don't know where he
00:07:00
is we don't know what happened to him we just want this to be over and I think you could make an argument for either
00:07:08
side of the fence here because a lot of people say this might point to some sort
00:07:13
of guilt by the foster parents you know where they're they're claiming their innocence in a question where it wasn't
00:07:20
necessary for them to claim their innocence we don't know where he is we don't know what happened to him and then
00:07:26
the other portion is that people state that when she says we just want this to be over mhm that she might be referring
00:07:33
to the investigation personally Captain I I tend to argue the other side of the fence here where when she started
00:07:41
off with her answer it's we are living a nightmare we wake up every day and it's
00:07:47
repeated is what she's basically saying yeah I think she's implying that she wants the nightmare to be over exactly
00:07:53
she's heartbroken she can't imagine what could have happened to this child it's a
00:07:58
nightmare and and she just wants that portion of it to be over the interviewer is going to ask them when was the last
00:08:04
time you saw William that morning the 12th at mom's place 10 about 10:15 and uh can you just give a bit of
00:08:13
a background what was he doing he's at his so that's a little odd yeah yeah very odd when asked when was the last
00:08:20
time that you saw William you hear the Foster father start to give an answer of about
00:08:25
10:15 and it sounds like his wife is correcting him at that point she start no no but then but then they're cut off
00:08:33
by the interviewer right and I'm curious what would she have said what was she about to say to her
00:08:40
husband before she was cut off by the interviewer right because all the reports say that she saw him last about
00:08:46
1015 not only that it's almost as if she's trying to remind her husband wait a second you were gone when he went
00:08:55
missing by all reports you were off making this business bus call or this Skype communication and we don't want to
00:09:02
speculate too much because it could have been as simple as him saying oh 10:15 and again if she was going to correct
00:09:09
him well no you were gone and he he could have been saying well he asked us as a group mhm right you know what I
00:09:16
mean so it's like my wife saw him last at 10:15 right so and that's that's interesting that you say that because
00:09:23
we've all come across husband and wife combos that that do that they're the best aren't they when asked a question
00:09:29
you may have one person in the group that thinks that it's it's a question specifically for them and for their
00:09:35
knowledge and what they know about the situation only where you have either the wife or the husband going well we
00:09:42
collectively we last saw him around 10:15 on that day now we will speed along through this interview because
00:09:49
it's quite lengthy and we're not there's no reason to play the whole thing here so before we get to their next
00:09:55
response um one thing I do want to tick off my list here is that when asked what
00:10:00
William was last doing the mother states that he was having fun he was playing he
00:10:05
was playing daddy tiger she give some kind of name to the game that she believes that they were playing now the
00:10:11
Father the Foster father I find his answer a little a little weird in the sense that it's very vague his answer is
00:10:19
William was just doing what he would normally do and and I get that that Williams Foster father was not present
00:10:27
or not supposed to have been present at the approximate time that he was the boy
00:10:31
was abducted or went missing however we need to keep in mind that and in April of 2015 when this interview is being
00:10:40
conducted police are working under the assumption that this little boy has been abducted it seems strange to me and I
00:10:48
know that these parents are probably traumatized in their in their own manner in their own way from living through
00:10:54
this experience but it seems a little strange to me that they are quite vague with this answer of what the little boy
00:11:01
was doing when he was last seen because if we are talking about an a an abduction here well the mom's not that
00:11:09
big there could be some importance as to what the boy was doing when he was last
00:11:15
being supervised by an adult well let's go over the foster mother's accounts of the moment that she realized that
00:11:22
William was missing I just I'm I'm I I I think back to that that moment where I just when I can't hear him why why why
00:11:33
can't I hear him and I walked around serious it was just 2 m 3 m away from where we were sitting and I've just
00:11:41
walked out and I just see nothing I I see nothing I hear nothing I I'm speechless I'm walking around in a
00:11:50
circle on the spot thinking where is he why can't I see him and I'm yelling out William where are you you need to talk
00:11:58
to Mommy tell me where you are I can't see you I can't hear you where where are you and he was nowhere and I just I just
00:12:06
standing there thinking how could he just disappear cuz he just disappeared I don't I don't get it I don't get it
00:12:14
later in the interview the foster parents are asked when did you first suspect abduction I I from the from in
00:12:21
my mind it was immediate because there was no way in the world William would have gone into that bush it's too thick
00:12:27
it's Lantana all through it there is no way in the world he would have gone into
00:12:30
that bush and being a cautious boy as you said he going to think twice about doing yeah yeah I it was it was in my
00:12:38
head and even mom even when I was talking with Mom while we were waiting and I was doing the Frantic thing around
00:12:44
running through the house and opening up cupboards and all sorts of stuff I just
00:12:49
kept going in my head somebody's taken him I can't there was it in my mind it was the only logical explanation for
00:12:57
what could have happened yeah a child in that situation in that circumstance in those surrounds would not just disappear
00:13:05
into thin air I mean I I had my I had my doubts uh I I didn't know what to believe at the time especially in the
00:13:12
first hour or or two I I didn't know what to believe but um I guess my mind was wondering as to what what what could
00:13:20
have happened to him but I just had to keep on going and and have the support of the the community around us that
00:13:25
we're also looking for the police were on scene within minutes which was absolutely fantastic
00:13:33
um but I didn't know what to believe but in that Community you don't expect you don't expect someone to take a
00:13:41
child I mean seriously it's a tiny Community everybody knows each other in those around those
00:13:47
streets there's complete trust it just it just I'm I'm astounded that there there could be
00:13:56
somebody living there or people living living there that could do this it just it's just it's not the place where you
00:14:04
would you'd expect it in the city you'd expect abductions in the city you don't expect to hear about abductions in
00:14:10
Kendall and out of my month Street I mean it's just ridiculous the thing that I want a red flag here Captain is I find
00:14:17
it a little strange that you know we heard the 911 call sorry I said 911 we heard the
00:14:24
triple 0o emergency call same same where she reports little William as missing now here in this interview which is
00:14:33
conducted you know nearly half more than half a year later she states that when did you think that he first was abducted
00:14:42
that somebody came and physically took this child and she says almost immediately immediately I felt that that
00:14:48
was the only thing that could have happened it was the only reasonable explanation why I could not find this
00:14:55
little boy she had a intuition which look the only thing to me here is for my thought the when I first heard the
00:15:07
triple zero call listened to it multiple times I always thought that she sounded
00:15:12
a little a little concerned but um very calm maybe a little reserved um my thought though was always
00:15:22
that your first immediate thought usually is not that the child is abducted is that this child is just
00:15:28
missing they've wandered off somewhere they found somebody to play with down the street and now once we bring in some
00:15:35
people to help with this search once we raise the alarm we're going to feel a little embarrassed because he will be
00:15:41
easily found that was my thought listening to those emergency calls before however after hearing this
00:15:48
interview I'm a little perplexed here at at her saying that she believed that he
00:15:53
was abducted almost immediately and then sounding so calm on that emergency call
00:15:59
well I think part of it is not wanting to you can feel things or have senses of things but she might have not wanted to
00:16:07
believe that I also think that she sounded a lot more distraught on that call and I think she was holding back a
00:16:15
lot I think there's little moments of that call that that allude to that and you bring up a good point here if if
00:16:21
people are able to stay somewhat reserved and that they don't go into panic mode usually they are able to be
00:16:29
more productive in a solution to whatever problem everyone is experiencing so yes maybe she's just
00:16:36
kind of cool Under Pressure here and trying to stay from panicking so that she can help find her little boy and
00:16:43
present as much information as she can yeah and could you know put yourself in her shoes I mean she gets up to go look
00:16:49
for William cuz she does not hear him let's and her first gut reaction is somebody took him mhm
00:16:59
you don't want to be going around why people are looking for him going I have a feeling somebody took him right and
00:17:04
then you're going to freak everybody else out yeah so I think that's part of it too and I think now she's
00:17:10
stating and what's kind of fascinating to me is the how it's impossible you know it's
00:17:19
like she can't she's having a hard time in her brain connecting the dots you know on how he went missing and this
00:17:26
small Gap and how it doesn't make any sense right and and that's to me very real like if you know it's hard for me
00:17:36
to believe that she had something to do with it when that is real like she's you
00:17:42
can tell that her brain is still confused on how he went how he just kind of poof and went missing yeah
00:17:50
even seven months later still kind of processing the events of that day and how this could have possibly have
00:17:56
happened now moving on in the interview she will be asked they will be asked if William was abducted do you feel that it
00:18:04
was somebody from the area I don't think it's somebody from the community I think
00:18:08
it's someone who doesn't have a history there I think it's oh I'm saying I if if
00:18:15
I mean I don't know for sure I I can't see I can't see a true local who knows my mom who knows us and knows our family
00:18:27
choosing to take our child I can't see that and if that's the case then I feel so sorry for that Community because that
00:18:35
is absolutely disgraceful and nobody can trust a soul that's not the community of
00:18:40
Kendall people trust each other there dad do you feel the same way absolutely I think the community's
00:18:47
probably going through just as tough a time as we are because there are so many families there with young children that
00:18:53
have now changed their lives as well the impact that that's actually had on them
00:18:58
um for for I don't know what's what period of time but it's it's it's yeah it is disgraceful and probably the
00:19:04
toughest question that they had to ask was what do you think happened to William that's a that's a hard question
00:19:14
um I think that if I could answer it by saying that I mean for I think I tro those grounds myself for three or four
00:19:22
days you know every morning until almost Nightfall um we had had po we had police
00:19:30
from all around we had you know SCS we had the community if he was out there in the bush he would have been found yeah
00:19:40
which you know as I was walking through the bush with other people it it became more aware to me as time went on that
00:19:50
this event is this is not a normal event this is not a child gu missing in the bush this this is heading down the path
00:19:57
of abduction or something more more Sinister um that's that's what I I I believe I truly believe now and I'm I'm
00:20:06
I still pray to this day that I still believe strong that he's alive if he is still alive then someone
00:20:15
has him so what would the foster parents say to that person right now just give him back do the right thing give him
00:20:23
back take him to a church take him to a police station take him to a school give him to someone give him give him
00:20:33
back and if somebody out there knows something or knows the person that took William what would you say to them say
00:20:40
something to police straight away yeah say something because what what what they say or what they potentially bring
00:20:46
is another piece to the puzzle that can at least give get us closer to an outcome um and I said before you praying
00:20:55
for a miracle for him to return alive um but praying for an outcome so that at least we we
00:21:02
can know what's happened to it that's that's that's the goal at the end of the day I suppose the other thing too is if
00:21:08
they don't come forward or even the person who might be uh very close to whoever's done this if they don't come
00:21:14
forward you don't want this happening to anyone else no you don't want this person striking again yeah you said um
00:21:22
right at the beginning walk a mile in our shoes you can't walk a mile in our shoes unless you've it's actually happen
00:21:28
and I don't think any parent anywhere deserves to walk and M in our shoes it shouldn't happen it just should
00:21:36
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offered by T-Mobile in Verizon May [Music] 2023 [Music] all right we're back cheers Captain Cheers Cheers me m
00:24:09
some powerful stuff from the foster parents of William tiell there in that interview now some more thought on the
00:24:18
possibility of either a pedophile ring being involved in the Abduction of little William or at least the thought
00:24:25
that maybe more than one abductor was present on the day that he was taken this comes from information that was
00:24:33
provided to authorities from the family of a convicted pedophile now the family states that there are two people here
00:24:43
and these should be two persons of interest in this case both are convicted pedophiles or at least convicted to have
00:24:51
had some kind of child sex offender charges on their record they claim that their family member
00:24:58
has claimed to have met up with his friend who is also a child sex offender on the day that William happened to be
00:25:06
abducted or at least disappeared okay so the first individual that we're talking about is a man named
00:25:13
Tony Jones so he was the pedophile whose White Station Wagon was seized in the investigation into Williams
00:25:22
disappearance now this man has 90 offenses on his criminal record 90 offenses on his criminal record he
00:25:32
has charges against him for uh pedophile type crimes before and after The Disappearance of William trell now he
00:25:42
claims that he was going to go meet up with a man by the name of Bickford Paul Bickford another um these guys are both
00:25:52
pieces of [ __ ] yes thank you Captain yeah Paul Bickford so this is the story Captain well and so I don't go off on a
00:26:02
three-hour rant you have 90 charges against you you shouldn't be out with the rest of the population we should be
00:26:10
protecting our kids you should spend the rest of your life in jail thank you thank 90 90 9 zero offens you should get
00:26:18
a year for at least every charge and then so you'd be in jail for 90 years you piece of [ __ ] yeah and
00:26:26
um like I said he has charges before and after The Disappearance of Williams so he was out during that time now their
00:26:34
story here's their story all right now keep in mind this was brought to police and brought to investigators by family
00:26:42
members of one of these individuals so the story was that the two of them were supposed to meet up they were going to
00:26:49
spend the day in the bush uh in the woods in the forest looking for and collecting scrap metal
00:26:58
now the report what the family would say is that they did not see uh Jones until
00:27:05
later that afternoon he did return home um but at when he returned home he was drunk uh and he did still claim that he
00:27:13
had spent the day in the woods collecting scrap metal it seems very very I mean we talk
00:27:22
about strange coincidences along the way here it seems very strange that you have
00:27:27
two two persons one with nine with 90 offenses against him MH that happened to meet up on the day that little William
00:27:36
goes missing and we have two maybe three vehicles spotted in the area of his disappearance yeah and wasn't one of the
00:27:46
vehicles spotted the white um the white station wagon yes and that was what was seized from this man's possession so to
00:27:55
further add weight to this thought theory is that it was reported that both men had lived in the Kendall area and
00:28:02
both had been driving vehicles that would match the description of one of the vehicles seen near the Terell house
00:28:10
on that day or around the time that William had disappeared mhm police have also alluded to the thought that
00:28:17
possibly remember bill speding that we had talked about earlier the individual that was scheduled to fix the washing
00:28:24
machine yeah the maintenance man that they that news reports have claimed they found a Spider-Man toy in his van police
00:28:33
would not confirm this or deny it m um but police have alluded that there's a possibility that bill speding may be
00:28:40
friends or acquaintances with one or both of these individuals that we just mentioned now so now we got three pieces
00:28:48
of [ __ ] publicly these men have denied that they are friends um and but we have two of them
00:28:56
at least hanging out together but we're not friends we just we just went to the bush to collect scrap metal we have yes
00:29:04
we have at least one of them that told their family member I'm going to meet this specific person and go to the woods
00:29:12
it with the with the objective of collecting as much scrap metal as we can for the day and I do want to give a
00:29:19
little more information regarding this individual bill speding so he was a repair man right he had gave the foster
00:29:28
grandmother a quote her washing machine was broke and apparently he had done this several days before the child had
00:29:36
arrived she wanted to get the washing machine fixed one just to get it fixed but two expecting house guest you don't
00:29:44
want the laundry to pile up apparently there was a part that was needed to repair this washing machine
00:29:52
uhuh and actually bill was scheduled to be there on that on the day that William
00:29:59
went missing mhm on the Friday correct the story goes like this though that he was waiting for the part to come in mhm
00:30:10
there are some reports out there that state that he tried calling the grandmother now the reports go Fork
00:30:17
there's a fork in the road here Captain because the reports go one of two directions a lot of the reports state
00:30:24
that Bill speding had called the grandmother she did not pick up the phone and he was calling to let her know
00:30:31
that he was still waiting on the part that it had not arrived he was not going to be able to fix the machine that day
00:30:37
uhhuh the other side of the fork in the road was that he was calling to report that the item had in fact come in and he
00:30:45
would like to come by and repair the washing machine however regardless of the fork in the road both stories all
00:30:53
reports indicate that the phone the phone call was not received that she did not answer the call yeah I don't know if
00:31:00
a message was left that would clear up what was actually about to happen had she answered the phone
00:31:07
however the report States the reports state that she then tried to call him back to figure out what it was that he
00:31:15
had wanted so apparently once they were able to make contact whether it be he called
00:31:23
her or she called him apparently by this point they were busy this kid has gone missing he we don't want anybody coming
00:31:30
out to repair the washing machine that day he did eventually go out to her home and repair the washing machine I believe
00:31:37
it was anywhere from 5 to 7 days after the boy had gone missing but he did return to that home now where was he
00:31:47
that day according to his wife that his that Bill had gone out for a cup of coffee they attended some kind of uh
00:31:55
midday event together and then he went back to work that afternoon and then returned home as normal that evening so
00:32:05
during the according to his wife during the time that William would have gone missing or would have been abducted
00:32:12
around that 10:15 to 10:30 marker this man was according to his wife his whereabouts were accounted for yeah I
00:32:21
don't believe her well I don't I'm not I'm not necessarily going to go too much into whether I need to believe her or
00:32:27
not for my own thoughts my thought is we don't have any investigators coming forward saying yeah we've already
00:32:35
cleared this individual right we we've heard his wife's side of the story he's been cleared let's move on we have other
00:32:41
suspects to investigate this dude as far as I can find has not been cleared he's
00:32:47
still he's still considered a person of interest in this investigation now let's get into some of
00:32:53
these theories here Captain because there's several theories about what possibly could have happened on
00:32:58
September 12th 2014 okay so the first thought would be much more innocent than a lot of the
00:33:07
other theories out there the first thought would be that the the children are outside playing mom and the
00:33:13
grandmother go inside to get a cup of tea they're gone for a little bit of time and during this time William goes
00:33:20
wanding off he goes wandering into the forest or to the bush as they call it and this is a vast area this is rugged
00:33:29
terrain yeah if you know I want I want everybody to keep in mind it's possible that if somebody were to wander in there
00:33:36
and get lost or to keep venturing deeper and deeper into those woods if a proper
00:33:42
search is not conducted there's a good chance that somebody could not only succumb to the
00:33:48
elements and pass away in those woods there's a chance that they may not be found right especially at three-year-old
00:33:58
yes what are your thoughts on that on that theory Captain well his foster parents talk about him being a cautious
00:34:05
kid so I don't know if he would actually roam that far away we also have countless reports of people searching
00:34:13
the property that you know within what 15 minutes or so 20 minutes or so of the boy going missing the foster dad is
00:34:22
running the whole property lines looking I think he would have been found I also
00:34:28
if you ever been to the grocery store with the three-year-old they don't like to walk that long so true so I think
00:34:35
that once he got into if he did get into the bush at some point he would be stopping
00:34:42
and not moving at all and is is there some kind of you know look the the animals I know are a little bit
00:34:48
different there is it possible that he went to the edge of the Bush and then somehow like an animal got him one of
00:34:56
those Tas devil things that uh spins around and creates a tornado and makes weird noises yeah no I just think um I I
00:35:04
don't think it's that likely they had a they had adequate well not even adequate
00:35:09
they had a amazing search team they had amazing volunteers looking for this child I think they would have they would
00:35:17
have found him you know I question how long the the Gap is of not you know not hearing William play mhm uh because like
00:35:27
we've said before there's a lot of times where somebody thinks it was a couple minutes but maybe it was a little bit
00:35:32
longer um I do question that but I do find the fact that the Foster mother is just
00:35:39
baffled by the fact that he went missing uh and she see she still seems so baffled today that I I do believe that
00:35:47
it was a very short Gap yeah and I think I think you nailed it there Captain I think you hit the nail on the head for
00:35:54
me as well because you bring up one thing that that really kind of sums it up for me with this thought and it not
00:36:01
being a very likely maybe even impossibility is that there was an abundance of Searchers there was an
00:36:10
abundance of resources that they used to try to find that little boy they used helicopters motorcycles dogs uh they
00:36:17
used people that were experienced in searching through that type of terrain now it's well and you bring up a good
00:36:24
point with the dogs is we don't have any evidence if these dogs got a scent Trail they
00:36:29
would they would have followed that scent into the bush yeah yeah and it's my understanding that the early searches
00:36:36
now this would be the grandmother the the foster mom and the people that helped in the neighborhood God Bless the
00:36:42
people that helped in the neighborhood and and I I didn't go too far into the details of that but it also sounds to me
00:36:48
like some of the children that were playing in the area not only provided answers to questions to adults that are
00:36:55
hey have you seen a boy have you seen a kid wearing a Spider-Man outfit not only
00:36:59
did they say no we haven't seen this child but they also helped look for this child and some of the kids and some of
00:37:05
the neighbors went door too knocking on doors asking for other people's Assistance or if they had saw some boy
00:37:12
wandering around now as far as going into the bush the one thing here that that really
00:37:20
makes me question that and I understand that maybe valuable time should he have wandered into there maybe valuable time
00:37:26
could have been lost while they searched the neighborhood not expecting a cautious young boy to walk into the
00:37:32
woods but I don't think his little legs could have carried him very far before right before we're talking about that
00:37:40
abundance of resources coming into look in that area specifically look in that area and as we mentioned they covered
00:37:48
fairly quickly three kilometers from the spot that he went missing that's a good
00:37:54
amount of ground the other item here is that Spider-Man outfit he's wearing that's
00:38:00
half of that thing is bright red the other half of it bright blue these are pretty easy colors to spot even if
00:38:08
you're in a helicopter far above the canopy of the of the Bush or the woods MH and I've I've heard several Searchers
00:38:16
talk about searching that day and one thing that they said was that the the Bush was so thick that the clothes that
00:38:23
they were wearing some of them experienced tear on their clothing now if any items if
00:38:30
little threads of of red or bright blue pieces of clothing would have been torn from from William which I would expect
00:38:36
that more likely than that from the Searchers that we would have seen evidence that he was at least in that
00:38:43
Woods at some point and again I don't know the animal situation but animals don't just kind of pick you up and
00:38:51
cuddle you as they carry you away there would have been some type of evidence to
00:38:54
suggest that something terrible had happened to the poor little boy now one thing that scares me um was that in
00:39:02
looking at pictures of the neighborhood and near that lot there was a a large sewer nearby mhm um and I'm sure and I
00:39:13
hope well I shouldn't say I'm sure but I hope that that that area was checked and
00:39:20
I hope that if they used dogs to check that area like they said that there were no tracks leading them to that sewer
00:39:28
area it looked large enough that a small child could could fit down in there uh and as they had said that it sounds like
00:39:36
they were playing hide and go seek when he was last seen could he have been looking for a place to hide and attempt
00:39:43
to hide in there not understanding what it actually was um for me I find this to
00:39:49
be this thought this Theory to be one that part of me wishful thinking would hope that this would be more of a
00:39:57
likelihood however it doesn't seem very likely that this was in fact the scenario now regarding the next Theory
00:40:05
Captain was that we're not hearing the full story from the foster parents that somehow the foster parents be it the
00:40:12
father be it the mother be it them together in some kind of team were responsible for the uh demise of this
00:40:21
young child and they've been able to successfully hide his corpse all these years later well let's have you tackle
00:40:28
this one first well my thoughts on the foster parents are this um and I share a suspicion that you have but I think my
00:40:36
thoughts are I suspect a little more from the foster parents the only thing I actually
00:40:43
think that the foster parents might be guilty of is I think that that window of time when William was
00:40:49
unsupervised I think it might be considerably larger than what we're told now I don't
00:40:56
when I say that I don't mean to throw shade at the foster mom what I mean by that is is there a chance that that's
00:41:06
not deliberate that they're not deliberately saying yeah I watched the kid until 10:15 and that was last time I
00:41:12
saw him and at 10:30 I I figured out that he was missing because I didn't hear him anymore and we have a 5 minute
00:41:19
window my thought is they might not have been watching the clock the entire time
00:41:25
that you're sitting there you're catching up with your mother that you haven't seen in a while face to face it
00:41:30
felt like a couple minutes yeah it felt like 15 minutes it felt like 5 minutes that they hadn't heard him 15 minutes
00:41:37
that they hadn't seen him maybe it could have been 15 minutes you hadn't heard him a half an hour that you had not seen
00:41:43
him so I think that really I don't find anything there I mean I do have some questions about some of the answers that
00:41:51
they've provided in that interview but mhm but really what you hear toward the end of that interview
00:41:59
and we didn't play the entire thing but you hear the heartache in their voices you hear their voices cracking and they
00:42:06
are sort of trying to fight through tears as the interview goes on and on and so I think that there's real
00:42:14
heartache there I think that they their hearts are broken I think that they intended to permanently adopt William
00:42:22
and his sister I think they thought of William as their own little boy so the only thing that they may be guilty of in
00:42:30
my mind the foster parents is that possibly their memory is not as clear as we would like it to be for the morning
00:42:38
that he went missing and maybe that window of time that he before he was noticeably missing is a little
00:42:46
larger yeah I just the way she goes over that and I'm going to bring it up again the the
00:42:54
minute that you know she real realizes he's missing and that he just kind of poof disappeared I mean you can tell
00:43:01
that her brain is just baffled by this so that to me lends to the idea that you know she has no clue what happened to
00:43:10
him so not guilty of that the problem with this though is that we don't know who these individuals are and there
00:43:18
could be other suspects based off of these indivi individuals if we knew for example oh this person is so and so and
00:43:27
this person is so and so and the the husband was having an affair and then if he was having an affair with somebody
00:43:34
then that person becomes a possible suspect you know what I mean so there's little
00:43:41
things I don't think they're guilty of anything you know that's what my gut is telling me based off their answers based
00:43:48
off the research but it's also we're not getting the full picture of these individuals and if we did is there
00:43:53
something that would be brought to the surface that you go oh well right I question that so it's I see what you're
00:44:00
saying it's hard for us to give a full assessment where police obviously know who these people are and they're able to
00:44:06
dive into their lives much better than we can um but I see what you're saying here that there could be other things at
00:44:12
play and the thought there too is you know was this a planned visit you know there's been speculation about that
00:44:19
we've proved it was a planned visit the straight from the foster mother's mouth they plan to go there on that Friday
00:44:26
they planed to be there that weekend the only thing that was unplanned about it was that they left on that Thursday
00:44:33
instead right and you point out something that's very interesting there Captain who in their lives would have
00:44:39
known you know just because just because that portion of the trip was unplanned there are people in their lives that
00:44:45
could have known were leaving a day early my work I told my work or I told this person I told the babysitter that
00:44:52
would typically help out you know different people so yeah I get what you're saying there so now we have to
00:44:59
ponder the question if we don't think that it's likely that the foster parents were
00:45:05
involved and you know one more one more little tidbit on that before we move on would be if if the foster parents were
00:45:13
involved and somehow some maybe even a freak accident or some something strange happened and they decided to cover it
00:45:21
up the foster grandmother would have to be going along with that you know I mean it just adds one more
00:45:28
piece of the pie one more thing to the equation there you know because if if the Foster grandmothers telling the
00:45:35
truth and in her story is is real then both of these individuals their whereabouts are accounted for Williams
00:45:43
time with them is accounted for up until the point where he disappears so that in
00:45:48
itself clearing both of them essentially the other thought though here is if it wasn't the foster parents
00:45:56
could it have potentially been the biological parents of William right they weren't they arrested that that day yeah
00:46:05
and I this is why I didn't want to go too far into that and here here's my thoughts first of all I've seen several
00:46:12
interviews with the biological mother and to be honest she seems very genuine she I can't say for certain that she's
00:46:21
telling the truth but she seems she comes off to be very honest to me so I don't see anything with the
00:46:28
biological mother but what I can gather from some of the interviews it actually sounds like the biological mother and
00:46:35
father were not together on the day that William disappeared right and where we get the information that the the
00:46:44
biological parents were arrested at 4:30 on the day that William had gone missing
00:46:49
we get that information from the biological grandmother from from the biological father's mother now we have
00:46:56
some problems with her statements there while they may not be entirely untrue you have to weigh them against
00:47:04
what the biological mother says in her interviews she does not say that she was arrested she says that she yes police
00:47:11
knocked on her door the day that William went missing right that they questioned
00:47:15
her that they forced their way inside and they searched her her home and she and they searched the grounds of her
00:47:23
home and one thing that one thing that is a little telling to me to make me believe that she is honest she kind of
00:47:32
criticizes their search she's like yeah they came into my home and they went looking around for William but she's
00:47:38
like that was my son missing I when they were searching my home I hope they put more effort into it when they were
00:47:45
searching other people's homes because they didn't search my home very thoroughly right now there was one
00:47:50
interesting thing when when they did search her home was they found a little boy in her backyard playing and they
00:47:57
thought that that was William but that was actually another son of hers that she has so the son that she is choosing
00:48:06
to raise well these children were taken from her right so because of her choices
00:48:14
well yeah I I I think it's a little harsh to to and that that's just my opinion you know you can you can be
00:48:21
forceful about it if you like um I think that do you think you have to be pretty
00:48:26
bad as a parent for them to take your kids away I don't know I'm not going to pretend to know 100% the circumstances
00:48:33
of why the children were taken from them because I don't I mean I grew up in the
00:48:37
80s and pretty much all my friends parents were not that great of parents and none of them ever got taken away
00:48:45
right but but again I know that neither of us know the circumstances of that situation so I think it's a little it's
00:48:52
a for me you can you can have your opinion for me it's a little out of bounds I think I do agree with some of
00:48:57
your statement there I think there she probably could have made some other choices that would have possibly have
00:49:03
helped her her number one complaint is that a lot of the situation was her uh boyfriend at the time the the child's
00:49:13
father possible and because they were still together she was kind of lumped in with him she does state that she that
00:49:20
was your choice she does state that she failed some kind of uh drug test uh that
00:49:27
she tested positive for marijuana which was going to help them decide to take away her children MH um but this is also
00:49:37
a woman that that says that she was um in a domestic violence relationship right during that time and I don't feel
00:49:47
that she feels that she had much control over the situation at the time I really
00:49:51
do feel that she feels more guilty than anybody involved uh for what has happened to her her yeah
00:49:59
I kind of was forgetting about the do domestic violence cuz it seemed like it was coming from both sides and it could
00:50:07
it could but I don't know the details those are that's a lot harder of a situation to be in what I do know is
00:50:14
that currently or at least as of 2017 she was Raising other children of hers so good for her hopefully she got
00:50:26
her life together so either getting rid of this guy this Brandon Collins either getting rid of him was able to help her
00:50:34
straighten out herself or she has done some things to straighten herself out since this well the biological the
00:50:40
biological parents would have been roughly what four hours away anyways yeah now if they were separate
00:50:47
if they were not together that day here's where I here's where I do want to throw some shade I want to throw some
00:50:53
shade on the biological father mhm okay because I don't I don't feel like I can trust this grandmother the biological
00:51:01
grandmother because through her own words she states that the state was going to come and take William away and
00:51:08
she helped provide money to to the biological parents so they could go on the run to keep their child right so she
00:51:18
aided in that situation with them being out on the Run once once the children were taking away taken away from them
00:51:26
this the biological father was in and out of jail when he was not in jail it sounds like he was living with his
00:51:33
mother and it sounds like she paints this picture of this guy that was a tea Toler until the point that his son went
00:51:42
missing I don't know that I can believe that he's had a strong history of of alcoholism and drug addiction he's
00:51:50
addicted to Ice uh the drug ice I don't see any break in that chain in in his history it appears that this was well
00:52:00
he's violent this has been a constant for him as well so I think what we have here is we have the grandmother painting
00:52:08
one picture and I think in reality there's a much different reality out there than what she's trying to throw
00:52:15
into the public that this guy was sober he was doing the right thing and he couldn't get his kid back um and that
00:52:22
you know my these kids were not involved because they were arrested fairly quickly afterwards the mother says we
00:52:28
weren't arrested they searched my home they questioned me that was it now she doesn't State anything about her boyfri
00:52:35
her ex at that time Brandon Collins now maybe maybe they show up to question Collins about his whereabouts if he was
00:52:42
involved if he's if he's seen William and they catch him with drugs or they find him and he's high and he's broken
00:52:47
some type of probation and they actually arrested him I don't know that yeah or they just took him down to the station
00:52:53
for questioning and and his mom's calling that arrest who knows right I I just think that we're getting one bad
00:53:01
story and it doesn't seem to be the truth coming from his side and I kind of question that I think that if there were
00:53:09
but again it's four hours away he would also have to know where they were or they followed him right I mean that's
00:53:15
possible but again I'm not saying he did it what I'm saying Captain is that we we've already seen a situation where the
00:53:21
grandmother has aided the escape and the and the AED them to keep the child and and I
00:53:28
don't need to be proven right or wrong here what I'm saying is that I for for the biological father to be ruled out I
00:53:35
need some more information I'm not saying that I think he's guilty of anything what I but I don't find truth
00:53:42
coming from his mother I question her story enabler right I question her story therefore I question him I question his
00:53:49
actions I would need some more information to clear him from as a possible suspect ECT in this situation
00:53:56
what are your thoughts on the biological parents uh I I don't think it was them I
00:54:03
I I don't think the likelihood I mean it's 4 hours away you know they left the day before so if you did follow them you
00:54:11
know you'd have to be gone Thursday night and nobody saw you in your car there's no record of them getting a
00:54:17
hotel room so I just I don't think it's likely and then also you're going to capture your kid and then where did you
00:54:25
put your kid mhm you know you were arrested that day and maybe not arrested but question that day both parents were
00:54:32
the scary thought though is that a stranger abduction or the pedophile ring or more than one
00:54:40
abductor almost seems like a much more likely situation than any of the other theories that we've discussed mhm that
00:54:48
it's it's sad to think that it's sad and scary to think that that possibly somebody was watching the area someone
00:54:55
was cruising and looking for a child and came across William playing in the backyard and decided to wait till he was
00:55:03
unattended and took him or lured him into their vehicle well and there was a pedophile ring in the area suspected
00:55:12
pedophile ring in the area yeah but that's I mean that's that's all I need to know as far as like I mean that's
00:55:21
that's a pretty big suspicion you know it's not just that there's one offender here there it's there's a ring in that
00:55:30
area so again and then we have the situation where we have two pedophiles meeting up to collect a scrap metal so
00:55:38
here's these guys that are going to go into the bush and go searching you know willy-nilly for scrap
00:55:45
metal to make a couple dollars you know these Rings they put a price on children
00:55:52
is it that far-fetched just that that we have two pedophiles in the area both their cars have been seen in the area
00:56:00
they were going out to look for scrap met medal to get money and they just came across a opportunity they would
00:56:07
make more money off a William than they would off that scrap metal well and not only that Captain but what if what about
00:56:15
this bill speding is there a chance that when his phone call went unanswered he decided to drive by the house to knock
00:56:22
on the door and say hey I got the part I can go ahead and do the today he pulls up he sees this child playing in the
00:56:27
backyard MH and he decides to take the child and whether for his own purposes or
00:56:34
to to sell him off to people that he may know police have said that he may have known these other two individuals that
00:56:42
they've questioned in the situation is that why he's so willing to toss up his DNA you know where it looks like hey I'm
00:56:50
super innocent here's my DNA go ahead and clear me but also if all I did was take the child and I didn't do anything
00:56:58
with them sexually or physically attack them or whatever the the chances of me leaving DNA on that individual go down
00:57:06
significantly at that point right I understand that but I also think you know his his vehicle what it makes it
00:57:14
seem like is that he had a work vehicle you would think that somebody would have
00:57:18
noticed a work vehicle more so than just any normal car yeah that's the one thing
00:57:23
that we don't get good good clear understanding of here is where we have several vehicles that are described to
00:57:30
have been in the area at the time and when we talk about um Tony Jones's vehicle how it matched one of the
00:57:38
vehicles how his vehicle was seized how Paul Bickford bford how he had a vehicle
00:57:43
that matched one of those Vehicles we hear that we have speding who his property was searched who was questioned
00:57:51
who they may have found a Spider-Man toy in his work van or work vehicle right but he had Grand grandchildren right we
00:57:59
also get no description of that vehicle MH you know what I mean did it did it match any of the descriptions that we've
00:58:06
already given of of eyewitness accounts of vehicles that were spotted in the area roughly around the time that
00:58:12
William had gone missing yeah but you got to be pretty ballsy just to go hey take my DNA oh yeah of course to me it
00:58:21
seems that to me that action seems more like somebody that you know like you said he had he did have some charges
00:58:28
against him I don't know what those charges were it sounds to me like somebody that's saying hey I I didn't do
00:58:34
this and I want to be cleared right away and and go ahead and take my DNA and I'll do anything I can to help you I
00:58:40
mean they search his property as well yeah I don't want to go too far into his charges because I don't have a full
00:58:45
understanding of them but um The Limited understanding I have of them is he has some allegations against him regarding a
00:58:52
six and three-year-old girl um and the the other thought though there's some confusion regarding the
00:59:00
allegations one being was he he was charged but was he convicted um I don't know that he was convicted the the other
00:59:09
issue seems to be that he at one time in his life was friends with a pretty horrific sexual predator and his claim
00:59:20
regarding those allegations is that the witnesses the victims are wrong that he was not the one that victimized them
00:59:27
that the the person that would that he knew right was the one that had in fact victimize them he doesn't claim to have
00:59:35
knowledge of this other than that's his speculation after having been charged right right and it seems to me like
00:59:42
there's a very high probability that if this guy speding wasn't involved in these allegations against These Girls He
00:59:50
was unaware of his friend's activities and he might even have been family members with this individual at the time
00:59:58
it just seems to ring true you know like it sounds a little goofy but it's like I
01:00:04
think there's a lot of people that get charged with these pedophile crimes and it's a shock to a bunch of people in a
01:00:11
community let alone somebody that was friends with somebody or somebody that was related to somebody else now despite
01:00:17
all of the efforts despite various search efforts by the police and the forensic testing that's been conducted
01:00:24
through throughout the years all of which have failed to turn up any trace of William or any clues about his
01:00:30
disappearance and police to this day have have yet to conclude what actually happened to little William and I do want
01:00:39
to leave everybody with uh this thought this is this is kind of where I go with this captain my final thoughts on this
01:00:46
is one that one thing that really scares me is that just because we've not found
01:00:52
him or found trace of him doesn't necessarily mean that the worst didn't happen we know that we know from the
01:00:59
Jacob wling case we know from several other cases that sometimes these things happen and the the child is taken and
01:01:07
very quickly killed and disposed of afterwards and it can be sometimes it can be many many years before we find
01:01:16
proof of that M the thing that the the thought that helps me put my head on the pillow at the end of the night and and
01:01:23
go to sleep is I hold on to hope that that if William was taken that by chance you know it is rare a a a child sexual
01:01:34
predator abduction that ends in Murder is somewhat of a rare thing what is even a little more rare is that maybe a
01:01:41
female that wanted to uh that took him with the thought that she would raise him as his own that she couldn't have
01:01:49
children for whatever reason that has happened on occasion it's very rare but at least in that scenario he would be
01:01:57
taken care of and probably loved um so that's where I kind of keep my fingers crossed and in hope and pray that that
01:02:05
might be the situation yeah I mean you you hope for stuff like that but you know a lot of times when we get these
01:02:13
cases it's just you know you see Williams name and right beside it it's missing child case and then once you
01:02:20
start diving into it you just see the I think the worst part of the the universe if that makes any sense mhm and
01:02:30
it's just one that um crimes against children and just the worst and um and I think the worst happened to him that's
01:02:39
my gut feeling um I do want to quote Bruce Markham who he is the father of Daniel Markham who was abducted and
01:02:46
killed in Queensland Australia in 2003 he had some words for the parents of little William and Bruce said have no
01:02:54
fear William is loved by the whole of Australia and we will not rest until we find that answer and who is responsible
01:03:04
well and this this is a awful problem that's happening down there and and they they got to do something to to fix
01:03:12
[Music] it uh the recommended reading for this week captain is with one shot family
01:03:26
murder and a search for justice now this is about the brutal murder of lever stoic and later his widow would confess
01:03:36
to having killed him in Cold Blood but the niece this is the author Dorothy marsik she susp she suspected a more
01:03:46
Sinister tale that was at the heart of her beloved uncle's violent death so recommending with one shot you don't
01:03:54
have to write down that title or that author right now because you can go to True Crim garage.com click on the
01:04:00
recommended page we will have that listed there along with other recommendations from previous shows want
01:04:07
to thank you guys so much for listening thanks for telling your friends thanks for sharing on social media that means
01:04:14
the world and until next time be good be kind and don't litter [Music] [Applause]
01:04:35
[Music] you can start your day off right when you find a professional on Angie to get
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