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GameChanger [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crown garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always the president of the Seline Dion fan club he is the captain
00:01:54
thank you thank you so much it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks
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for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend tonight we are drinking off the
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leash shamefully good Texas Red Ale By the Fantastic people at Noble Ray Brewing Company in Dallas Texas garage
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Captain I have to admit when we get to Texas it's very hard to select a beer for the show they make such great beer
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Texas Red Ale and thanks for everybody for filling up the fridge a big shout out to Rebecca out in Kansas next we
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Instagram all that stuff @ True Crime garage and that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair
00:03:40
grab a beer let's talk some true crime grab your Lover's [Music] hand Mary Horton Vale died and passed
00:03:56
away in October of 1962 she was found dead in a river near her home in Lake Charles Louisiana Sharon Hensley she's
00:04:07
been missing since February of 1973 she went missing off the coast of Key West Florida Annette Carver Veil
00:04:15
missing since October 1984 from Tulsa Oklahoma what's the one thing that these women have in common they were all
00:04:24
married or had an intimate relationship with Felix Vil Gina we've been talking about Felix Vil and earlier we covered
00:04:33
the mysterious death of his first wife now you said that they had had a son together and she died just months after
00:04:41
he was born what ever become of his son oh gosh Bill his son bill was Bill was born I think in July and his first wife
00:04:53
Mary was killed in October so he was literally months four months old I think I think and so bill has a aunt in
00:05:04
Louisiana that takes him and keeps him for a while not not a long while maybe a year and then Bill takes him and moves
00:05:12
back home to Mississippi with his mom and dad and stays there for a little while maybe
00:05:19
a year maybe two not very long and so his mom probably is raising the son then Felix takes off and heads to California
00:05:30
this is when he really starts just traveling all over very nomadic like I've said and he takes off and goes to
00:05:36
California at some point he comes back and he gets his child bill this toddler and he says hey this my kid I'm taking
00:05:44
my kid I'm G to be the dad you know [ __ ] he took that kid because he goes out to California he's living the
00:05:55
true hippie lifestyle and they're they're roaming around you know the hate ashbery
00:06:01
District I mean everything it's it's definitely you know the time Life Magazine of the hippie lifestyle that's
00:06:09
what Felix is doing at this stage but he learned quickly that he could take his son Bill and use him as a pawn to get
00:06:20
the things he needed to survive okay um housing food women drugs whatever it is he needs oh look at me I'm a single dad
00:06:30
um I mean it's the ultimate chick magnet look at me I'm a single dad with this little you know towheaded baby and and
00:06:37
oh my wife tragically died by accidental drowning and I'm just trying to survive
00:06:44
and you know here light up and pop this and we'll babysit your kid while you go screw her and you know whatever and it
00:06:53
was I mean unfortunately for Bill but it was genius on Felix's part it really was
00:07:00
for the Deviant piece of [ __ ] that he is it was a genius move so Felix has his
00:07:05
son bill with him but they're they're definitely not living a traditional home family
00:07:12
lifestyle and Bill stays with him till he's like eight or nine or so but what what happens at this point Little Bill
00:07:22
bless his heart he says they're on this Orchard in California in mered California and he said there's this
00:07:30
little farm boy that he's talking to and he's like you know I just I don't like living like this I want a home I want to
00:07:38
eat I haven't eaten in two weeks I've had nothing but grapes for two weeks literally and this farm boy said you
00:07:45
should go to the police and tell him so Bill literally gets on the road and walks like two or three miles down the
00:07:51
road and finds the police station and says hey my dad is doing all this I'm tired of taking drugs I mean sad tragic
00:08:03
tragic story I'm tired of living this way oh by the way I heard him tell his girlfriend that he killed my
00:08:10
mom and the police were like whoa so that's the first time the investigation is reopened into Mary veil's death okay
00:08:20
and this is 1970 Louisiana comes to California interviews I don't know what happened but nothing happened it just it
00:08:28
it was dead in the water a horrible choice of words right there but um the police hear this this story from this
00:08:37
little boy that that his father had killed his mom and now they're going to go talk they're going to go talk to
00:08:45
Felix they put them on what they do is they go and they find Felix and Sharon and they're like hey your kid just
00:08:51
ratted you out they check them out they got all these pills on them I don't know
00:08:55
what kind of pills they were I don't I think it was LSD I don't know what they had had on them but they had drugs on
00:09:00
them so they charge them convict them for drugs and that's when he gets put on probation and his mom I think bailed him
00:09:08
out you know they get they get money to get bailed out of jail and his mom did it well at that stage Bill his son goes
00:09:16
back to Mississippi and lives with Felix's mom and dad and was from that point on raised by his mom and dad um
00:09:26
Felix showed up I don't know a year later him and Sharon show up at the farm and
00:09:32
Bill sees him and is just petrified totally petrified CU he's afraid that his dad is going to kill him because he
00:09:40
turned him over to the police you got to feel for this little boy here what ends
00:09:46
up happening with Bill and so Bill his son was raised in a Christian home and went on to college met a Christian woman
00:09:55
they married they were strong Christians unfortunately bill passed away I think it was in 2009
00:10:03
of cancer and but he had a family of his own uh I think three sons basically really didn't have anything to do with
00:10:13
his dad because he knew the truth in fact there's we have a audio tape of Bill talking to his preacher at his
00:10:21
church because he knew I think at this stage he knew he wasn't going to live that much longer because of the cancer
00:10:26
they had and so he he told his preacher to audio tape this confessional you know
00:10:34
and and talks about his growing up and how he was treated by his dad and this being druged all over the state of
00:10:42
California you know living in a tent and then turned him in and the confession that he made cuz when Felix told Sharon
00:10:51
that he killed his mother Bill heard that but Felix didn't know he heard it until bill went to the cops in Merced
00:11:00
California and turned him in that's when he found out and that's why when Felix showed up that very first time back at
00:11:05
the farm bill was so scared he thought he was going to kill him because of what he did you know what he had said to the
00:11:10
cops but that that time he showed up Sharon was already gone and he told Bill he said you don't
00:11:21
have to worry about her anymore I fixed her something along the lines of I fixed her to where she won't
00:11:29
tell anybody anything so Felix having killed his first wife do you think Gina do you think that once he met these
00:11:38
other women and once they became involved with him in a long-term relationship that Felix was of the
00:11:44
mindset that you know I'm just going to use this person up and however this relationship ends it's going to end on
00:11:50
my terms you know did he was their fate sealed when they met him and got involved with him were they already dead
00:12:00
in his mind at the end of that relationship yeah you know I'm going to be on the fence on that one and I know
00:12:06
that's the dumbest answer you could hope for the reason I say that is back in the
00:12:11
very beginning when I first met him I would have said oh yeah definitely but you know you're young and eager in the
00:12:16
case and you know it's early on and you're like oh yeah this guy just set out to kill all these women I don't
00:12:21
think that's the case to be honest with you and the reason I say that today is because since then I have learned that
00:12:29
there were so many other women he was married like seven times and there were so many other women
00:12:36
from the death of his first wife Mary Horton Vale to after The Disappearance of Anette
00:12:45
Veil his third his last wife or the that's yeah I think that is his last wife but after The Disappearance of
00:12:53
Anette that there were so many other women that we were unaware of until just in the past year maybe two that he had a
00:13:02
long-term relationship with he married them and there was domestic violence but they were able to escape so he didn't
00:13:10
set out thinking like the one woman and I I I won't divulge their names because they
00:13:17
are still around they're still living and the privacy issues if it's out there in the media go after it that's great
00:13:23
but I'm not gonna be the one to put it out there um but these women one woman you know he was choking in the shower
00:13:31
and it was upstairs and and her brother was downstairs he heard the commotion he
00:13:35
comes up and him and Felix getting a fight you know he's saving his sister so if one if her brother wasn't there he he
00:13:42
could have very easily and he probably would have killed her I there's no doubt in my mind that he would have killed her
00:13:48
but I don't think he set out in that relationship saying okay when I'm done with her and used her up and got all I
00:13:55
can out of her I'm going to kill her I don't think that's his intention I think what happened happened is when the Rel
00:14:01
when he because all of these other women that are still out there that had a relationship with him whether they
00:14:07
experienced domestic violence at his hands or not I think I don't think he set out to
00:14:15
kill each one of them to in the relationship but I think if he was in it long enough they were very short
00:14:21
relationship one woman he was married to for one month you know one woman he was
00:14:25
with for a couple of months they were very very short relationships I think if they were a year or better
00:14:32
they would have ended up dead Gina with all of your experience and I know you've
00:14:36
covered a lot of domestic cases during your career and some of them turn violent
00:14:42
what is the difference between Felix who is a killer and someone that is just prone to violence there there are men
00:14:50
out there that that will beat the [ __ ] out of their girlfriend or wife and they
00:14:55
there's a certain threshold they they'll stop at Felix you know you push that button and they're like okay you're
00:15:01
getting the [ __ ] beat out of you I might break your nose and bust your lip but
00:15:05
I'm gonna stop when I'm when I feel you've had enough Felix doesn't stop until they're dead that's the difference
00:15:11
once that button of his is pushed he carries it through to the end those women that are still living are lucky I
00:15:20
believe there's one more victim out there that's a good possibility I mean given the the length of this timeline
00:15:26
here and with how many women he claims to have had relationships with we've seen how some of these have ended but
00:15:33
why do you believe there's another victim out there the whole time I talked to him he only said one name
00:15:39
completely I've never been able to find her and piecing things together my theory is
00:15:48
that it was after The Disappearance of Sharon but before he met Annette so in the 70s he was traveling and Hiking
00:15:56
through Colorado and and he met up with a group of people and this is stuff he told me and he he was very much into
00:16:04
live food me and of course I'm like a live food what are you talking about you eat you catch a rabbit and just eat it
00:16:11
and not kill it I mean what do you do you know what are you talking about and no live food the way he explains it is
00:16:17
you go again like to an orchard you know grape vineyard and you pull the grapes right off the tree and you eat them
00:16:22
right there that's as fresh as they can be okay that makes sense I asked him I said well do you ever have again it was
00:16:30
one of those times I want to provoke him and see what he would say do you ever eat meat I mean how do you do live food
00:16:36
if you're eating meat well he steered clear of it and then I asked him again at another stage in the conversation and
00:16:42
I said what do you eat like sushi is that life food you know is a joke and he said no but he during this camping trip
00:16:50
in Colorado his whole life was like a extended camping trip I think at one point he tells me about a woman he met
00:16:57
up with and of course I have to hear all the graphic details about all the sex they had while they're camping and you
00:17:03
know all the detail about that and then at another stage of the conversation when I'm talking about the live food and
00:17:10
I jokingly talk about sushi you know and meat he makes a reference it's a weird reference and he says no but you know
00:17:18
I've tried it once before and um it's just it just wasn't totally my thing and I got the feeling
00:17:27
that it was while he was with these people in Colorado and he was talking about drinking blood and he claims it
00:17:35
was an animal but he wasn't very clear he was very very vague about all of this so my assumption is I I can't help but
00:17:42
Wonder wait wait wait wait a second so what are you saying are you saying that Felix killed a woman and then drank her
00:17:48
blood did he push this woman to the edge and kill her and decide just to try it you know just to see what it was like he
00:17:56
was very I believe him when he said I tried it and I didn't like it I do believe that but what was it that he
00:18:04
tried because he wasn't specific he didn't say oh it was a dough it was a rabbit it was a squirrel he just said it
00:18:10
was an animal you know he was and he is a very he's very detail oriented but he was very vague in that so it's in your
00:18:20
mind you know but I couple that with this story he tells me about this woman and the fact that I can't find her any
00:18:28
anywhere in existence at all and he was Smitten by her and it all coincides together and I can't help but
00:18:36
wonder if she's another victim that has just been never been identified and it would be very easy for
00:18:44
her to slip through the cracks because she came from Sweden according to him and they immediately connected and
00:18:54
she you know went her separate way you know his cryptic ending of the relationship it was very similar yeah we
00:19:01
see this time and time again with Felix he has these lengthy relationships with these women and then they just
00:19:07
supposedly leave on their own yet they're never seen or heard from again and I just wonder if that in the
00:19:13
Colorado trip and the live food with the blood and everything all coincides the timing just fits
00:19:22
so that's that's that story for what it's worth was there anything incriminating that Felix had said to you
00:19:29
or what did you get from him that they were able to use at his trial um he didn't tell me anything that was used in
00:19:38
court or that could have been used in court that was beneficial to the the case however when he was arrested I was able
00:19:48
to continue the undercover operation for several months after that by writing letters and then talking to
00:19:55
him on the phone from jail he would call me you know the reason I did that was because we
00:20:02
knew the journals were there the but we we couldn't get to them and law enforcement had come down in May to
00:20:11
arrest them and they had a warrant obviously for his arrest but then they had a warrant to search his property for
00:20:18
the journals well they were from Louisiana and in the state of Texas there's some law that does not allow
00:20:28
journals to be obtained with a search warrant whatever the law is you know I don't I
00:20:35
don't know those that's for the attorneys so they come down here and this warrant says you know what we're
00:20:40
looking for are personal journals and letters and things like that and the judge here in Texas said nope not
00:20:46
signing off on this because it's against our law okay fine so basically all they
00:20:50
could do is they all they could do was arrest them and that's all they did their warrant won't allow them to get
00:20:56
the journals but you've established a relationship with him you think you can get this information so I wrote him a
00:21:02
letter in jail and I said I said hey I can't at this stage in our relationship our plan was I told them I was divorced
00:21:11
and that I didn't have custody of my kid and i' gotten a big inheritance and I bought an RV and I was just going to go
00:21:18
sit at the beach and you know disconnect and I wanted him to come with me and of
00:21:23
course he was all over that and so that's how we left it and then of course when he's getting
00:21:31
arrested then I said how do I make contact with him to let him know that hey I'm still here and just see what
00:21:39
happens because I was there when he was arrested I was taking the pictures but I
00:21:44
had a hat on I had my hair pulled back I had a big camera in front of my face so
00:21:48
he didn't know it was me but at the time I didn't know that he didn't know it was
00:21:52
me I wasn't sure so I wrote him a letter as my character character and I said hey
00:22:00
I went by to see you your neighbor said you got arrested I saw it on the internet oh my God what
00:22:05
happened and he immediately writes back and he's like oh it's so great to hear from you I you know I'm getting
00:22:11
railroaded and it's a conspiracy you know that's been his story the whole time so I knew that he didn't know that
00:22:17
was me behind the camera so I was like okay let's ride this Pony out and see how long it'll last so I thought I've
00:22:26
got to get permission to get into to onto his property that's all I needed once I'm on
00:22:34
there I'll do whatever the hell I want so I asked him I said where's your truck what do you need me to do do I need to
00:22:41
go and like turn off the electricity or carry out trash or anything what do I need to do I'm I'm at your disposal and
00:22:48
so he rites back he said yes he said I want you to go and get my truck it's impounded at sheriff's department and
00:22:55
then the keys for everything is on is on the truck key ring go to my place then of course he had this like honeydew list
00:23:03
you know mow the grass and patch a hole in the roof and there's a tree that fell
00:23:07
over that needs to be rided all these things and I'm thinking I'm not doing that [ __ ] you know I'm going in I'm
00:23:14
going to snoop through everything so whatever and so of course I'm all over it and at this point we're riding and
00:23:22
he's calling me so every Saturday he would call me and then I'd get probably a letter a week from him so it took
00:23:27
about a week 10 days to get you have to get permission you know signed to release the truck to me so I get that
00:23:34
and I go on a Friday afternoon and my husband had taken me over there you know he'd followed me and we dropped my car
00:23:43
because I wasn't going to take anything off the property I didn't have permission to remove anything I wasn't
00:23:47
going to remove everything but I was going to photograph every damn thing the man owned so I went prepared and that's
00:23:53
exactly what I did and the first day I get over there it's about 4 4:00 5:00 in the afternoon and my husband left me
00:24:04
there and with my vehicle and he had taken off and went back home so I'm looking looking looking and I'm just I'm
00:24:10
not I'm looking for the journals and I'm not finding them at all and so I called my husband and I
00:24:17
said hey we're I'm not finding them I'm going to go on it's like 10 o'clock at this
00:24:22
point I said I'm going to go on and come home and I'll just come back tomorrow because there are a few things I hadn't
00:24:27
looked through well there was this one tote like a big plastic storage tote that I kept
00:24:33
overlooking because I thought tools were in it from another time that I was in there it looked like tools were in this
00:24:41
tote so I just kept ignoring it and but I kept going back to it so I thought I'm
00:24:46
just going to look in there and there was stuff piled on it so I set the stuff aside I opened it and it's full of all
00:24:51
his journals it's just like you know 30 journals in there the motherload and so of course I'm ecstatic at this point
00:24:59
this was in a part of the shed that was a storage room on the back side but there was no locking door or anything so
00:25:05
I put it inside the main part of the shed so I could lock it up cuz I I didn't know what was going to happen he
00:25:12
had been arrested about two or three weeks at this point and I didn't know if there were going to be vandals you know
00:25:19
somebody torched the place I didn't know you know so I wanted to secure them as best I could without removing them from
00:25:25
the property so I did and I go back the next day and I spent 16 hours photographing all the journals because
00:25:33
also I didn't know when or if my cover was going to be blown and once he tells me you cannot go back on the property I
00:25:41
couldn't go back on the property without trespassing obviously my main goal was to get all the data from the journals as
00:25:50
fast as possible and that's what I did that Saturday I went back and it was 16 hours and I just started photographing
00:25:57
pages page after page every single page that he wrote down I photographed and then he had a little file cabinet and I
00:26:03
went through there and he had things that were important to the trial like anette's original birth certificate he
00:26:11
had um the letters that he had written to his mother about The Disappearance of Sharon he had the original letters there
00:26:19
things like that so I took photographs of all that so those came into play during the trial we'll get right back to
00:26:25
Gina frenzel private investigator investigating serial killer Felix Vil right after this quick beer
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[Music] Freedom what are in Felix's journals they're the minutia in those journals
00:28:52
it's just it's nauseating there's so much he you know I woke up today at 7:45 I had a banana and blueberry
00:29:00
smoothie at 8:45 I did 72 situps and I mean it's it's ridiculously mundane but then every once in a while he'll just
00:29:09
interject something and you're like whoa wait a minute so it's almost like you have to go through them all I'll be real
00:29:14
honest with you I have not read them all the very first journal entry is December
00:29:19
31st 1984 an nette disappeared in October of 1984 everything prior to that is missing
00:29:27
it's gone and then you get into the '90s and there's a couple of years missing but then then it starts back up again
00:29:37
and you're like wait a minute so we kind of figured out a pattern that obviously he got rid of
00:29:43
things that were incriminating in the 90s he dated this woman and there was some domestic violence I think
00:29:50
associated with it and so my assumption is okay obviously he wrote about it and he thought oh I'm going to get rid of it
00:29:58
and got rid of it and I thought to myself why for for like a year I thought to myself why is it that every single thing
00:30:09
from 1984 back is just missing and right we need to find stuff prior to 1984 because this is when these
00:30:16
disappearances and the murders took place so you're able through reading his journals to figure out that there
00:30:24
there's a time period where he moves back into his parents home and he had always kept a lot of his things at his
00:30:29
parents' home after his mother passes away he has to leave so you're able to trace these things to the addict of his
00:30:38
parents' home and didn't you come across a section in his journals where he talks
00:30:43
and discusses about getting rid of these items all of the things he has kept in his parents attic forever and ever which
00:30:50
were the journals and he's burning them and he's REM mening as he's burning them and one of the thing and it's
00:31:02
really it's insignificant stuff except one section and he says and I'm paraphrasing but he he basically he
00:31:11
says you know with this whole family situation of arguing with you know there was there was family member by the
00:31:19
nickname of Bunchie arguing with Bungie and you know his wife and you know about
00:31:23
the estate and all this I have learned to and then also reflecting back on everything in my past life while I'm
00:31:33
reading the journals and then burning them he's basically saying all this in his journal he and this is not a
00:31:39
paraphrase he says I have learned how to resolve conflict without resort resorting to murder we were thankful
00:31:47
enough that Gina sent us a bunch of the audio from her undercover work when she was sitting with Felix in his home
00:31:54
interviewing him he's being recorded he does does not know uh we found this next
00:31:59
clip to be very insightful regarding his character swear on their life that our government never has or never will have
00:32:12
a a squad to kill people suicide I mean you know like assassination Squad yeah that they think the Arabs do or
00:32:21
everybody else the Govern actually doing Hitler and and Russia and oh [ __ ] government's got so many different well
00:32:29
the Recon Marines is one and he was a he was a Recon Marine is that what scared you about it
00:32:37
no I'd be scared hell yeah no it's just the thing that scared me about him and her both was these
00:32:48
uh these blind spots that their ego protects they're willing to fight to the death to protect you from attacking
00:32:58
those blind spots yeah they don't want to hear about it they did they ever come after you physically no oh it's just a
00:33:05
verbal type of attack that would be scary he he uh he thought about it really about it a
00:33:15
couple of times and God I reminded him who I am and so that's all it took he he's he's scared of me he doesn't
00:33:25
know he doesn't know how much I know about killing myself you know about killing people hurting pain whatever
00:33:35
incapacitating and I don't know I've studied 10 15 different forms of martial arts that gives us a chance to hear
00:33:44
Felix's voice to get a get a feel for his mannerisms and how he's talking to Gina and and some of the conversations
00:33:51
they had the thing here is though he the the important thing is listen to how he
00:33:57
responds when somebody has a problem with him there's a guy that has a problem with him from a previous
00:34:03
relationship and he states that guy does not know what I know about killing about
00:34:08
killing people very telling about Felix's character unfortunately Gina did not get that Smoking Gun material from
00:34:17
Felix he never stated anything that was highly incriminating regarding the death
00:34:22
of his first wife his second wife or The Disappearance of any other woman however there were some things that she
00:34:29
was able to provide to the state that they used as evidence at his trial as far as the undercover work there was no
00:34:38
confession there was no smoking gun or anything like that unfortunately however there were several things that I found
00:34:45
that that they were able to introduce like the letters that he wrote about The Disappearance of Sharon the fact that he
00:34:52
had anette's um original birth certificate and and her passport picture um those types of things that
00:35:01
was key because they were able to introduce this law and I think it's like a 404b or 401b I can't remember the name
00:35:09
of it but basically it allows the state to introduce during the trial previous bad
00:35:16
acts and part of that was The Disappearance of Sharon and Annette and part of their disappearance
00:35:26
and their story of The Disappearance were the inconsistencies of the you know the letter that I found and the passport
00:35:33
photo and the original birth certificate you know he says oh she took off with these guys to travel all over well she
00:35:39
didn't have her passport she didn't have her birth certificate and at that time she didn't have a driver's license so
00:35:44
those were her identifications and she didn't have them with her you know those types of things
00:35:50
so that was what I was able to bring to the table as far as my undercover work on the case Felix Veil is a arrested for
00:35:57
the murder of his first wife Mary Hortonville before the trial takes place Gina is in town now she suspects that
00:36:05
her cover may have been blown because this point we have newspaper articles there's all kinds of stories coming out
00:36:11
about this case she goes to the prison to speak with Felix and confront him to find out if he knows what she knows how
00:36:20
are you I'm I'm not very good how are you me neither me neither but I'm here like now so uh what's going on what's
00:36:30
what's the deal nothing just the circus yeah you know I mean it's like this is not the country I was born in yeah well
00:36:41
what what I want to know I mean I want to know what's happening what's I don't know I my best guess is that it's uh
00:36:50
some kind of circus um you know that I have gotten plucked up into yeah you know it's it's not there's no
00:37:01
real legal stuff going on they have they're there's a lot of stuff out there I know and it's all [ __ ] there's uh
00:37:11
what what they're saying that I did didn't even happen and I what did happen uh nothing nothing
00:37:20
happened you know uh my wife fell out of a boat 50 years ago and D found in a river and and that's the only thing that
00:37:32
they're even that's even halfway factual what about the other women what about them yeah what about them I don't know I
00:37:42
I mean I've dated like uh several hundred maybe in my lifetime I'm 74 I don't know where any of them are I don't
00:37:52
I I've never you know there's a couple of them that I think sound mentally interesting
00:37:57
and I I had an I made an agreement with them what do you mean an agreement an agreement that that we would look each
00:38:09
other up in about five years and have some conversation to see what either of us had had learned in that time if you
00:38:20
know and and that never happened none of them well I did I I looked of them up and who I'm not going to tell you
00:38:29
anything I mean I I I looked one of them up and and she was married to a guy and
00:38:36
didn't want to have any conversation with me so that was it I'm you know about a five minute visit and where I
00:38:42
met her husband and hugged them both and and uh was that was that your wife and that no no that there was not uh there's
00:38:52
just so much out there in the media there's so oh I don't care listen listen I I don't have that's why I want you to
00:38:57
tell me what I don't have I don't have a a a a computer because N I don't know what percentage but a way majority of
00:39:08
the information out there on the net is just stuff that people are playing with well then tell me what happened I don't
00:39:16
know what happened what what happened what what do you mean you don't know I don't know where did she go I don't know
00:39:23
I don't know where any of them went or are I you know I found them I every woman that I have ever been with I left
00:39:32
them when I left them or they left me they were they they were healthier and smarter than when I met them that's what
00:39:43
about what about that's the only common denominator there is well you know you're the common denominator well
00:39:50
sure you know I mean tell me tell me what why are they pointing finger at you with Sharon and Annette
00:39:58
also they're saying that you had something to do with them disappearing why why why did the three people who
00:40:06
started the rumor that there was Foul Play when my wife first wife fell out the boat why did those three people get
00:40:16
together and three people uh one of them that was in the boat that picked her up that wanted to
00:40:24
screw her before I married her and rented the hell out of the fact that I got her and he didn't okay that's one
00:40:32
another one was listen wait a minute I'm getting there okay another one was an insurance adjuster or whatever we had
00:40:43
travel insurance because we were had been in Mexico and we're going again all right so he didn't want to pay off any
00:40:50
kind of policiy so he got together with the guy in the boat and they found another guy who was a hot shot lawyer
00:41:01
fresh out of had to be fresh out of lawyer school at the time whose wife had come to my bed before she married him
00:41:11
and didn't tell him about it until after they were married and so he was gunning
00:41:17
for me also those three people got together and they convinced the district attorney at that time to do you know to
00:41:25
try to put together a case against all right look they tried they went they got four deputies to go beating the bushes
00:41:35
and talking to all kind of people and all right they both four deputies did tried to do the same thing that this
00:41:42
little writer out of Jackson Gary Mitchell yeah yeah yeah that's slimeball uh these four deputies tried
00:41:50
to do the same thing that he did except they didn't have his talent that guy guys got some okay but that was 51 years
00:41:58
ago okay so what so now they've they've they've reopened obviously reopened this
00:42:03
case and they look okay listen there was no case they tried to make a Cas those poor deputies you would be sitting here
00:42:10
if they didn't have something to put you here with I'm trying to tell I'm trying
00:42:15
to tell you listen they go to court on facts I know exactly no they don't not here this is kue Parish Louisiana wake
00:42:22
up wake up you know what you make up I've seen the pictures of Mary's body yeah yeah have you no I haven't asked
00:42:33
your attorney because I've seen them okay so what so what what about them ask your turny you need to see those
00:42:40
pictures who took them I don't know who took them but they were taken 51 years ago when their body was pulled out of
00:42:46
that River all right who who took them though I don't know did the coroner take them I had no idea the corer the cor no
00:42:54
they were not taken by the coroner because she he wasn't even out of the river yet okay so they can't use them in court
00:43:00
I don't know I have no idea I do they're using them anyway but they think I'm they think I'm ignorant enough not to
00:43:06
know that well when you look at those pictures that sure as hell doesn't look like an accident to
00:43:11
me have you ever seen a floater that came out of the kashu river with all the debris and sunking barges and everything
00:43:18
that's got on the bottom of it yeah but I'm not talking about that well I I have I'm not talking about
00:43:26
scrapes and scratches and crab bites and things like that that's not what I'm talking about well you need to see those
00:43:32
pictures I I I have not seen him yet I would like to see him so what tell me about Sharon I don't know anything about
00:43:41
Sharon you're telling me that she just you know the story is that she just sailed off into the I don't know I don't
00:43:48
know where she is or where she went any more than I do any of the other 200 or whatever I'm not talking about the
00:43:56
300 400 I don't know I I don't know I you know one time I tried to count them up and I lost counted at about 200 in in
00:44:05
my lifetime that's irrelevant I'm talking about the ones that are in the media okay yeah in the media I don't
00:44:10
know I don't know any more about them than I do the others what about the jacket that Mary
00:44:17
was wearing that white jacket that she was wearing I don't know anything about it I don't you sure have talked about it
00:44:23
I have not remembered what kind of clo she had on I don't I had no idea that she had a scarf on I didn't remember
00:44:33
that you your original statements to the police said that she was wearing a jacket when you asked and when her body
00:44:39
was this we this week no I say this I said your state your original statement to the police 50 years ago oh and and
00:44:47
and she wearing a jacket in the accident report yeah well then then that's probably accurate I don't remember now
00:44:54
know jacket what happened to it I don't don't know I didn't I didn't remember that she had one on I mean if if if I
00:45:00
said that at the time then she probably did well she was wearing a jacket and we
00:45:06
find her body and she doesn't have a jacket on okay well I don't know anything about
00:45:12
that and then Sharon you have different stories you have different stories of who she left with I don't know who I
00:45:20
don't remember who she left with I gave it my best shot when her mother who she didn't like
00:45:27
her mother shipped her off she got pregnant and the mother know that shipped her off and you know to avoid
00:45:34
religious embarrassment because her mother was a really straight that's irelevant that was long after y'all okay
00:45:40
you know Sharon didn't want to be around I went with Sharon one time to visit her
00:45:45
folks and they they had uh you know we were there a couple of days I think and she tried to have one conversation with
00:45:55
her mother that did not work out very well and didn't try anymore she talked with her brother some
00:46:03
and her father probably about the same amount that she did with her mother which was like uh 15 minutes or
00:46:10
something so what happened what happened why did she just take off where did she
00:46:14
take off from I don't know I don't remember I mean you know some some place where Boats were that we were playing
00:46:23
with some boat people what were their names because you said oh I don't I don't know I don't
00:46:30
remember I I I proa I might have guessed at the time that I tried to you know I mean at the time I would think you would
00:46:39
know no I I didn't want to go with them oh I'm not taking issue with the fact you didn't want to go with they they
00:46:45
were swinging people and I didn't want to go with them I didn't take issue with them I don't know what their names were
00:46:52
you knew back then I don't know that I did I don't might have I I gave it my best
00:46:58
shot and what about in that you said you put it on a bus in St Louis I remember that
00:47:05
yes but I don't know I don't know the names of the people that she left with she left with people on the buik well
00:47:13
yeah you know like people she met no we had just met them at the zoo we were walking around at the zoo and we met
00:47:21
these people there were uh three guys three guys and two girls one girl two girls why would she put on a people oh
00:47:37
oh they were going to to uh South America you know they were going south why would she why would she leave with
00:47:46
she wanted to go south she was ready why didn't you go with her I we we had you know listen she the only reason we
00:47:56
married was so that she wouldn't get taken away from me while we were traveling okay one one point we were in
00:48:03
some country and um when we weren't married and they almost took her away from me okay well I can understand that
00:48:11
so what I'm saying is why why would she why would you not go with her y'all were
00:48:16
together for a long time oh no we were together off and on like just like Sharon when I and several other women
00:48:25
that that traveled with me or stayed periods of time with me then they would go be with other people for periods of
00:48:33
time and they would some of them would come back you know Annette and Sharon were two of the ones that periodically
00:48:41
would come look me up wherever I was well I thought I I got the impression of together all the time because they oh no
00:48:49
no no no so so when she just she just gets on the bus says I'm G to go with these people I just met for sure she had
00:48:56
done it before and that was the last time you saw her yeah yes it was yeah I don't believe that well you
00:49:07
don't have to believe it I don't care who believes it I mean you know I'm I'm just shooting from the hip I have been
00:49:13
from the start yeah not not not like you of course shooting from the hip you it's
00:49:20
your job no I a pretty pretty dead on and I get what I'm going after I I I hope you're getting paid well NOP not a
00:49:28
single time not a single time yeah yeah what's your motive Justice wow you're in the wrong place I
00:49:42
don't think so C Parish Louisiana I think I'm in the right place I'm on this side of the glass Justice is a joke here
00:49:50
they make up their own they make up their own laws they're breaking several federal laws
00:49:56
by even having me in here they got no they got no probable cause there's nothing cause they have sexual evidence
00:50:04
Felix sexual evidence sexual they have no factual evidence of of anything yeah they do they wouldn't have been able to
00:50:11
get an indictment on you that's not true yeah in any other place it would be true
00:50:16
you know what I I was told you know that that's I know that I'm the only person that really knows to have nothing
00:50:22
because nothing I have done nothing bad to anybody yeah no listen I slapped one woman in my life what about okay okay
00:50:33
let me tell you this you tell me then who was that woman I'm not going to tell you who it was but she SLA me three
00:50:39
times was it best no no no she slapped me three times first and I told her each time don't do that again third time I
00:50:47
slapped her so she would stop slapping me okay that's the one woman I have ever hit it's not that's okay no listen
00:50:56
the the there was two different times I I studied martial arts when I got when I
00:51:00
wanted to travel I didn't want to be paranoid about getting robbed So and I've only had to use it twice one
00:51:09
time three guys jumped me coming out of a restaurant with a date and they were going to knock me out and take my date
00:51:15
and my money and and they they they were listen they were not successful with that another time I was walking down the
00:51:23
street with a woman a date and four guys jumped me and they were not successful either I waled them all
00:51:32
and one of them held my date up against the building while three of them tried to take me down I waled them out in the
00:51:40
middle of the street where we were stopping traffic and when people when traffic stopped on both sides of us with
00:51:47
their headlights on it was night blowing their horns these guys freaked out and ran and turned to slle okay but what is
00:51:53
that happen okay I'm just telling you that's the only two times in my life that I have used violence and it was
00:52:01
both times in self-defense that's it I'm I'm not a criminal I'm not a a bad person I have not been violent I'm
00:52:13
not well you know you you didn't respond otherist this person when there are when
00:52:19
there are court records that show that you beat the [ __ ] out of best Fields you
00:52:24
beat the crap out of her there is no court then how how was she able to get a restraining order against you okay she
00:52:31
she I she called me down to the courthouse and I got in a room with her and two two or three guys
00:52:42
two I know and we sat there and talked for third for like 15 10 15 minutes and then and she told
00:52:51
him her version of what happened I told him my version of her what happened they
00:52:56
weren't that far apart other than the fact that you the crap out of her was that was not that was not true okay
00:53:05
so so after like 10 or 15 minutes of all of us talking we were all laughing the the the two deputies and Beth and myself
00:53:15
all laughing okay end the story you know no no uh forget it okay so I'm I'm walk
00:53:22
out and I go to get in my truck Beth follows me out and and halfway to my truck and ask me if she can come home
00:53:31
with me and does and we screw each other's brains out for a couple of days it's that doesn't matter that's okay it
00:53:39
doesn't matter to you no it doesn't matter but the fact is that there was enough evidence for her to get a
00:53:44
restraining order against you that means and her story is maybe maybe there was enough but she didn't I mean that was
00:53:52
not that was the end of it but you're you're just you're just making you you sound like you read Jerry
00:54:00
Mitchell's no you know that's I read the Tulsa Oklahoma police report case File okay listen on a net I have read every
00:54:12
police report every case File ever written about you okay yeah I don't get my information don't you forget you
00:54:19
think it's all true I know it's all true oh wow you know don't forget that very first day that I
00:54:27
met you what did I tell you I did as a for a living an an private investigator that's exactly it and that is still what
00:54:34
I do for a living I don't try to blame other people for my AC so you're Don female Don coyote sure you call me what
00:54:41
you want what did you do to them all those years in Oklahoma what did I do to them
00:54:48
yeah what did you do to him I know what you did to him I have confirmation what you did to him you think I hadn't talked
00:54:54
to him from who and and and they told you that I did some stuff to them yeah and you kind of
00:55:01
told told on yourself too in those journals wow yeah baby set them yeah you did want
00:55:11
more than babysit him no you're never going to admit anything that you've done are you I I if
00:55:19
what anything that I've done I mean everything in your life is always somebody else's
00:55:25
that's amazing this amazing everything in your life is always somebody else's fault isn't it no no no yeah you you
00:55:32
sound like a Serial thing like J I'm not a Serial anything you've made a Serial thing out
00:55:40
of me though in your mind and so you're not interested in the truth you're you're tell me the truth you I'm tell I
00:55:48
no no you dance around with [ __ ] and ego crap tell me the facts tell me the facts I have and and no because you say
00:55:57
well I don't remember I don't [ __ ] you remember you don't want to tell me I I I tell you I don't remember when I
00:56:03
don't we had a lot of fun together all three of us I'm sure pedophiles have fun with little kid no no no no no I'm I'm
00:56:08
not you don't like the labels I'm isn't it I'm not bad I've never done that yes you have yes you have where where you're
00:56:17
you're so so why you want me to tell you the facts and then when I do you're you're telling
00:56:24
me no you are lying Felix you are wow I am an investigator and that's what I do I find out information and I go after it
00:56:34
and I prove it either right or wrong okay and I have proven more things right about you than wrong and now is your
00:56:41
chance to tell me whether it's true or not and I have told you what's true and but you won't explain anything away you
00:56:49
just gloss over it um um there's nothing that I have done that needs to be explained away yeah okay let's go back
00:56:58
to herette what about her okay you said the last time you saw her you put her on
00:57:02
a bus that's true three weeks later she was seen with you in another location yeah we have
00:57:09
witnesses to that no yeah no you don't yeah you you GNA tell me this thing in blue right here because it goddamn sure
00:57:17
is it is it's a fact and and these witnesses that saw us together weeks after yeah three weeks after what after
00:57:28
you're saying you put her on a bus I don't remember what the date was of that but I no but you were on record early on
00:57:37
in the investigation with Tulsa Police Department I don't I don't know about you know I don't know about the
00:57:45
accuracy of I mean the bottom line is you know you know you can sit here and get past all your ego crap but the
00:57:52
bottom line is in the bottom of your heart you you know you're never getting out of here you know that so why not
00:57:58
just tell the other two families about where their women are so that they can sleep at night do you sleep at
00:58:08
night do you you're incredible yeah it is incredible you're incredible absolutely I damn sure am incredible
00:58:17
that's right you know you're never getting out of here no I don't know that I do you're
00:58:27
never getting out of here no that's not true you're never going to get out of here so why not just give the fam's
00:58:35
closure they they had no right to arrest me [ __ ] they had every right in the world no they didn't they didn't have a
00:58:43
you do not have the right to take someone else's life no of course not and you have I never have why the only time
00:58:51
I even thought any other people were the the two times that I told you about that's a lie that one well okay
00:59:01
[Music] that's well that was intense right mhm like can you imagine going into the jail
00:59:16
house or the prison to confront a guy that is going to face charges well and the other fascinating thing here captain
00:59:24
is we have yes Gina is a private investigator that is what she does for her career but if you heard early in the
00:59:31
interview she says that from time to time she will take on these cold cases pro bono because she she wants Justice
00:59:38
for these families you know she's essentially doing what a lot of the armchair detectives and web sthers wish
00:59:45
they could be out doing the difference here is she put herself in in the way of harm you know she put herself in the
00:59:53
Lion's Den she went and knocked on his door and sat in his home and spoke with somebody that she suspected to be a
01:00:00
multiple murderer right and had to stare in his eyes and uh smell his Bo yeah yeah well ultimately Felix Vil was
01:00:08
convicted of the murder of his first wife Mary Horton Vil who was found decades before dead in a river near
01:00:15
their home unfortunately regarding The Disappearance of Sharon Hensley and Annette Carver Vale there's been no
01:00:23
justice in the those two cases uh I do want to point out some people that that really made this come true you know this
01:00:31
this is something that should have been worked out decades before it would have never gotten done if it wasn't for
01:00:37
people like Gina frenzel the private investigator that we spoke with Jerry Mitchell the investigative journalist
01:00:44
who kept these stories alive and the mother of Annette Mary Rose now Mary Rose has stated that she is disappointed
01:00:53
that they didn't have enough evidence to charge Felix with The Disappearance or death of her daughter MH uh you know but
01:01:01
she has some closure in the fact that she knows that the man she suspects and has always suspected of killing her
01:01:08
daughter is now in prison and he will be there until the day he dies well and uh
01:01:15
one of the things that I just find so fascinating coming from the True Crime world is how many audiobooks have we
01:01:21
listened to how many podcasts have we listened to how many books have we read and we get we dive into a case and we
01:01:30
start doing a little bit of work ourselves and it was the same thing here private private investigator or not that
01:01:37
that's what happened she read this book she got invested and then she did work and she was able to uncover some stuff
01:01:46
for for the prosecution she became a witness for the prosecution um very interesting story and then to have her
01:01:55
being confronted and tough cookie right M to have her confront him at the end of
01:02:01
the day in jail before the trial um I'm sure when he saw uh her at trial uh he almost pooped his
01:02:12
pants well I do want to point out here uh that the the cases like this provide hope and should provide hope to families
01:02:22
and friends and communities lost loved ones from years ago a case doesn't have to go cold and I want to thank Mary Rose
01:02:31
Jerry Mitchell and especially Gina frenzel for working this case and and bringing that hope back to all of us
01:02:40
that look into these cold cases and we just want to thank private investigator Gina for talking with us and we we were
01:02:46
interested in this bringing this as a story or episodes to our show just to kind of show a different side mhm you
01:02:54
know uh instead of us just sitting in the garage and talking there's there's a lot of different facets uh of the
01:03:00
investigation process to bring Justice that are definitely interesting uh do we have a recommended reading for this week
01:03:07
uh yes this week we are recommending American Kingpin by Nick Bilton uh in 2011 a programmer launched the ultimate
01:03:15
free market called The Silk Road on a website hosted on the dark web where anyone could trade drugs hacking
01:03:22
software forged passports counterfeit money poisons without Big Brother keeping an eye on things M after a while
01:03:30
the media got wind and the new website where teenagers dealers hackers and terrorists could buy and sell Contraband
01:03:37
detection free was investigated this is the true story of the Epic hunt for the criminal mastermind behind the Silk Road
01:03:46
so check out American Kingpin by Nick built-in and you can do that by going to our website true Crim garage.com click
01:03:52
on the recommended page you'll see all of our recommended books and movies there and if you want to purchase
01:03:57
anything just use our Amazon banner I want to thank you Captain for another great week here in the garage well maybe
01:04:03
next week you'll let me talk we will We we'll think about that and I want to thank everybody for listening
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subscribing telling a friend and all the wonderful five-star reviews we love you
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we love you we love you we'll see you back here next week in the garage and until then be good be kind and don't
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