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thank you [Music] [Music] thank you foreign garage wherever you are whatever you're
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a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] thank you foreign [Music]
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murder case is getting fresh attention tonight Kentucky State Police call it the case of the man with no hands now
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this is a rendering of what the man might look like now detectives are turning to DNA experts in hopes that it
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will unearth some new leads watch us with Randolph is here after talking to investigators Walter what do they say
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well Paul and Kyle technology has changed immensely since this man was found dead in a barn back in 1989 an
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investigators hope running his DNA through genetic systems will give them the answers they've been searching for
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31 years have come and gone with no answers Kentucky State Police want to know who this man is he was found dead
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with his hands cut off in a Tobacco Barn near Dry Ridge this is what police told
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us back in 2017 when the body was exhumed he deserved to go back home his family deserved to know where he was I
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mean he was buried in Grant County in a Popper's grave with no no headstone back
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in 2017 DNA was taken and entered into a federal database but since then genealogy sites like 23andMe and
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ancestry have emerged that's why KSP is taking a closer look ecology has come so far
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um and it's it it it makes our job a little bit easier and you know bottom of the line is is that we want to solve
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these cases and we want to bring Justice where Justice is served the DNA dough project will now build a family tree in
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hopes of tracking down relatives of the John Doe it is a very peculiar and just an odd case
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um you know just the whole circumstance surrounding it and it's why it's been so
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difficult for us to to be able to make Headway police have previously thought this case may be connected to the Mob
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besides this digitally enhanced picture police don't have much to go on since the hands were removed that's why
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they're hoping new DNA technology will be the break they need in this case it seems like we get technological advances
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some of these old cases will be May in fact uh solve more of these [Music] on Sunday afternoon April 9 1989 around
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2 45 in the afternoon farmer C.W Adams known as Billy walked into his large barn Adams was a tobacco farmer in Dry
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Ridge Kentucky in rural Grant County his farm was located on Route 22. this is the main road through Dry Ridge called
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Main Street which runs north to south through the town of Williamstown to Dry Ridge about four miles apart and in Dry
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Ridge it turns West and heads out of town into very rural pasture and farmland an overhead view using Google
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Maps shows nothing but fields and farmland for miles and miles on either side of this part of Route 22. this even
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today captain in 2021 it was out there that farmer Adams Barn sat on the roadside in 1989. neither Dry
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Ridge nor Williamstown is exactly Cosmopolitan Dry Ridge is a rural town with a population in 2010 of just 2100
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people located in Grant County ironically although it's named Dry Ridge the area is known for its mineral water
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wells which allegedly have healing powers Williamstown is a bit larger with the population of nearly 4 000 in 2010 it
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serves as the County Seat but we are still talking about tiny towns that are off of the beaten path however the
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Williamstown Dry Ridge downtown areas are right off of a major Interstate this is Interstate 75. one of the longest
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highways in the United States from this area Captain this general area that we're talking about you could be in
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Cincinnati in approximately 40 minutes so here we have farmer Adams who utilizes This Barn for his tobacco
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Harvest it's quite a large barn the kind made out of old gray barn wood boards unfortunately we do not know exactly
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what happened when he walked into this Barn at 2 45 pm on April 9th and it's never been discussed at all how he found
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what he found we also don't know when was the last time that he was inside of this barn and that is a question for
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obvious reasons that has significant implications given what Adams was about to find now in the barn Adams found a
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stack of items these would be typical items he expected to find inside of this Barn
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in a pile but he did not expect to find them in this pile and it was extremely puzzling to him so he starts removing
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these items from this pile pulling items from the pile returning them to their intended locations and then he stopped
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because under this pile was the body of a large man the large man was naked with no clothing
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nearby and Adams could tell that there was no rush to call the paramedics one look at
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him told him that this man was beyond help he was dead and had been dead for quite some time
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the call to the Kentucky State Police came in at 2 50 p.m and officers arrived on the scene at 3 15 that afternoon well
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like you said this is roughly 40 45 minutes away from Cincinnati there's so many rural areas around these parts to
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be a perfect place to dump a victim yes you're exactly right captain and for me that's what makes it even more confusing
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as to why the barn was utilized in the first place but the people out there that are familiar with this story now
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this is one of our lesser-known stories that we're covering this week but there will be people in the greater Cincinnati
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area and in the state of Kentucky that have probably heard of this case before again it's 30 years old we are trying to
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identify this homicide victim and the Kentucky State Police have done a good job of keeping this case in the news
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throughout the years it's never really made national news though so a lot of people will be hearing this for the
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first time time but those of you familiar with this case you're probably sitting at home or in your car or in
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your garage going wait a second I thought that this guy when they found him in that Tobacco Barn that he was
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hanging inside the barn and there are several news articles that say that that in fact was what was going
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on but guess what it's simply not true the hanging part of this story is All a fallacy it never happened at all here is
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what we know to be true the Kentucky State Police the agency in charge of this case has released very little
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information about the whole situation they are honing in on this case and have been for the last couple of years
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because new technology is making it a situation where they think they can identify this guy sooner rather than
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later so this is a very much an active case for the Kentucky State Police and kudos to them for keeping it not just
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active in the news and media but also active on their desk right and an active investigation as far as they're
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concerned yeah they are fully charged and fully invested in identifying this homicide victim you can tell by the
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title of this case that it doesn't need any more hype but you see that from time
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to time in different cases where the legend of the case becomes a little more grandiose yes and this will be a case
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where we will learn some more information throughout the years today there's still not a lot known about this
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case and early on that was certainly the case because the early articles and statements about the man found in the
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barn all say consistently at first that it was not apparent what had killed this
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man later they would tell us what in fact killed the man that they found in the barn now early on though Captain
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this is because the body itself was very badly decomposed his face was described
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as not recognizable due to the level of breakdown of the facial tissues he was estimated to have been dead for at least
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a week probably two but the medical examiner was able to determine that the cause of death was two gunshot wounds to
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the back of the head his hands had been cut off the wounds to the lower arms at the wrist level indicated to the
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experienced medical examiner that the man's hands had been deliberately seven and the hands weren't anywhere to be
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found in fact to this every day they have never been located the Kentucky State Police has never revealed any
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information about the investigation that took place at the location where the man
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was found meaning they've investigated the barn the barn owner the property owners but we don't
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know what that all entailed and what their findings were in regard to the barn the barn owner and such we do know
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that they executed a thorough search of the barn and the surrounding areas as one would expect in fact we were able to
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get our hands on the incident report that indicates that the barn was cleared after seven hours or so hate to be
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Captain Obvious but they took the victim's hands so it'd be harder to identify the victim yes and as we said
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captain no clothing was found the man in the barn was naked no clothes no jewelry
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nothing the man's missing hands were nowhere to be seen well obviously the hands would have fingerprints and so you
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could look into a database of those take the jewelry those would be identifiers take the clothes that would be another
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identifier choosing would be identifier and we've seen in some cases too where people remove Cut skin to remove tattoos
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which would be identifiers as well according to the Kentucky State Police and these are their words they Echo what
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you just said here Captain quote someone had physically removed them from his arms talking about the hands continuing
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on they say fingerprints were a large part of technology in that time we still utilize it today but they they were very
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limited the implication was that whoever had cut off the man's hands did so in order to keep his identity a secret and
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so far here we sit all these years later and it has worked well when you read the
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description of this man one thing that jumps out is he's six five that means he's very tall so when I heard that it's
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very surprising that he has not been identified I agree three captain and that sets off some red flags for me
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because here we are more than 30 years later the man with no hands no identifying personal possessions or
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marks and with no recognizable facial features we're sitting here going who the man in
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the barn was remains a mystery and all investigators had to go on to identify him was that limited physical
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description of his remains which is as follows age they put his age at proximately in his 30s generally
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believed to be somewhere in the range of 25 to 35 years of age he's described as
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a white male height six foot five inches tall and they even break that down saying 77 inches I've seen some
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descriptions captain that have the victim listed at 6'4 uh but most generally say six five two
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hundred and twenty pounds and as you said that's a key factor in this case here just let that sink in for a bit
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this guy was six foot five inches that is an exceptionally large human being a missing person's report of a missing man
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of that size would be fairly easy to connect to a victim right but we can tell you that
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although this physical description of the Grant County John Doe as some have called him
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has been entered into namis and the DNA doe project databases and his case information is listed in VI cap and ncic
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he has never been identified and it is believed by the investigators and I share that
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opinion as well that there is no missing persons report that was ever filed on him
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and if there was it's never been able to be a report that the Kentucky State Police have been able to get their hands
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on or their eyeballs on because six foot five there's not a ton of people that meet that requirement a couple things
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one this individual could have no family members maybe was the only child maybe his parents died younger or possibly
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he's from a very small town from a lot further away than around let's say the Kentucky slash
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Cincinnati area and so if he went missing and like Washington State or something in a very
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small town maybe they're not connecting the dots that their son that maybe that their son ended up in a barn in Kentucky
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let's see what else we know about this guy from a physical standpoint uh his head still had plenty of hair on it
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enough to tell investigators that he wore it short and tight basically his hair was in a crew cut with short
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well-maintained sideburns as for eye color that is listed in every source that I've been able to see States
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unknown this seems likely because after death circulation of oxygen to the eyes and frankly everywhere else ceases so
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the pupils dilate and the cornea becomes opaque the eyes obtain a distinct blue white
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Haze over their surface which can obscure the true eye color of the deceased individual in any event Grant
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County John Doe his eyes are of unknown color so that does not help to identify him well this report says he's
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6'5 white man around 220 pounds with brown hair and brown eyes there is an FBI VI cap alert poster relating to the
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Grant County John Doe which contains more information about his appearance besides the estimated height and weight
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and brown hair the poster notes that the Grant County John Doe also has a previously healed broken nose and if you
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go to fbi.gov click on the vi cap tab there you'll be able to find a list of unidentified remains that they have
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listed on the FBI website the victim also had something that I'm not going to try to pronounce here
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not in the garage I'm never going to try to pronounce it I'm going to spell it out it's
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p-l-a-g-i-o-c-e-p-h-a-l-y so this is also known as flat head syndrome per the Stanford Health Website
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this is not something that is genetic but can be caused by a few different things one is a muscle tightness on one
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side of the neck so when the person is a baby they prefer holding the head to one
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side or in one position while lying down which then results in that side of the head flattening over time it could be a
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result of prematurity you know we have skull bones that are softer than full term babies and they tend to move their
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heads less often again the head would flatten while lying in the same position for long amounts of time it also could
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be a result of In Utero crowding this can occur when there are twins or multiples or if the mother has large
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fibroids or an abnormally shaped uterus so it's not super likely Captain but given
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that information there's a possibility that our John Doe may have a twin out there or had a twin at one time yeah you
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can actually get a plastic surgery for this condition this is also when you hear about doctors wanting to put a baby
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into a helmet that's normally because this condition is getting worse and they can correct it by having the child wear
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a helmet for a certain period of time now there's two kind of versions of this one where the back of the head is flat
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and where the head is misshaped it seems like his version is the one where your head would be flat on an area but not on
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the back of the head so causing his skull to be like misshaped but we're not doctors we're just two dumb guys that
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sniff gasoline in the garage so of course we have no idea which of these factors are the case here for our man
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with no hands but the key thing is to know that this would be an identifier for somebody out there his skull was
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flattened enough to be noted on the physical description of him utilized by law enforcement and missing persons
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organizations the Kentucky State Police have said quote he had a particularly shaped head a flat head the back of his
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head was flat that's specific if someone is trying to identify him end quote again I can't get over the fact that
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nobody's identified this individual when he's six foot five inches tall you have
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to wonder Captain if the person or persons which I think is probably more likely persons responsible for leaving
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him in this Barn if they knew that he would in fact be identified by fingerprints not everybody out there
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walking around on this planet or in this country or even the state of Kentucky have been
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fingerprinted you're right you have to have those fingerprints on file somewhere to have something to match
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them to now you wonder would these with the perpetrators here know or have suspicion
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to believe that he would be would have been fingerprinted at some point either because he was arrested or locked up or
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there are many jobs that require you to go and get fingerprinted or a thorough background check to be able to work in
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that position or work with that company I can't find it in the reports that I've
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looked at but was there a toxicology report done my guess is yes um but we don't have that information
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they're keeping that information to themselves well hang on just a minute here Captain because we have something
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else that could help with possibly identifying this individual so we have what they State this is the
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final piece I would say of the physical description of our John Doe it's that he
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had distinctive dental work so according to the FBI it was expensive and extensive
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specifically when our victim was alive he had a quote Perfect Smile the dental work included a 10-unit porcelain fixed
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porcelain to Metal Bridge with missing teeth replaced with porcelain pontics I believe is how you
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say that this is a word that I had not heard before but thanks to an internet search I know that pontic is an
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artificial tooth attached to a fixed Dental prosthesis basically it's a fake tooth that looks real and looks really
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good and it's permanently attached there is something else that we know and you were dancing on this Captain is that we
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know how he died as we said that the shots that killed this individual were two to the back of the head and one
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thing that they have released is that it came from a 22 caliber weapon so to recap real quick we have a John
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Doe that was found naked in a barn on Kentucky Route 22 outside of Dry Ridge Kentucky John Doe was found shot in the
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back of the head capped twice execution Style with a 22. his hands were cut off to evade identification
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he was hidden under a bunch of barn items or things that would be stored in this Barn he had a broken nose and his
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teeth had been replaced at some point with pricey fakes he had a crew cut and he was a very large man six foot five
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inches tall 220 pounds approximately [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] we're back cheers mates
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cheers captain it makes you wonder when the when the dental surgery was done because maybe again like I said this guy
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has family members maybe they passed on maybe he had some dental issues and then had them
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recently taken care of and and so he would have been the one responsible for this if it was done when he was a little
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bit younger that makes you wonder if somebody cared so much about him to make sure that he had a perfect smile
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you you would think somebody'd be coming out of the woodwork saying that's my son
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or that's my brother or or whoever it is that's where we come in and we try to help the Kentucky State Police because
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like I said I couldn't find a situation where this is nationally known news or information
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yeah it's on fbi.gov it's on some other websites and if you go search around the
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internet you're going to find information on this case or little news Clips but this is not something that I
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think everybody was aware of and when you have a situation where this guy very likely is not from anywhere near
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the immediate area if the right information doesn't hit the right person's ear balls or eyeballs then we
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have a situation where they can't go well that was my son or that was my brother or whomever now the other thing
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too that's difficult is we Circle back to a missing person's report right why don't we have a missing person's report
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of somebody that's this height and this weight again it's it's not normal for people to be this large and my mind
00:27:26
starts to go to the idea of well maybe this guy didn't originate from this country and is there a chance that he
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wasn't here very long before whatever happened to him happened right right this homicide for whatever reason went
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down is there a chance that he wasn't here very long and Mom and Dad brother and sister or any of his close relatives
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are just simply not in this country to to say that he's missing maybe they've told who man ever someplace else we've
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not heard from him we've not heard from our son or our brother or our cousin in all these years
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and so I'm sure they're worried about what has happened to him and that's why the Kentucky State Police want so badly
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to identify him for a multitude of reasons one to tell his family hey we found we got bad news but we found your
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loved one furthermore we want to seek some justice for this guy we have no idea who the
00:28:24
suspects can be when we don't even know who the victim is now one piece of information that has been disclosed that
00:28:31
I find to be very interesting is that the Kentucky State Police has stated publicly that the man found in the barn
00:28:37
was killed elsewhere we don't know because they've not given us the details of such how they determine this but we
00:28:44
can deduce that they were probably able to determine that he was not shot in the
00:28:49
barn because there was no gunshot spatter there was no shells there was no residue or large amounts of blood found
00:28:57
in the barn itself right so that seems pretty pretty simple but presumably if none of
00:29:07
this is found it's telling investigators that the murder and mutilation did not go down in
00:29:13
the barn and again this is interesting because remember he's a large man if he was already dead when he was placed in
00:29:20
this Tobacco Barn as opposed to being forced to walk into the barn and then being shot then it would almost
00:29:27
certainly have required two people to transport him in a vehicle and then move the body into the barn right it's my
00:29:35
opinion I think it's safe to say that this was likely a two-man job if not more I don't see how look Captain you are a
00:29:44
specimen you are a physical specimen uh Adonis uh and I do not see how one person even of your strength could have
00:29:51
possibly moved a 220 pound dead weight well you have to lift with your legs that distance to the barn well when they
00:30:00
mentioned that it could possibly be mob related I I'd also throw out the idea of
00:30:05
maybe a cartel or something because now go with me on this Theory it it might be a little far-fetched but if you
00:30:13
look at the distance between Williamstown and Portsmouth Ohio Portsmouth Ohio for a long time has been
00:30:21
a kind of a hub to have opioids and and other drugs and they channel from Portsmouth to
00:30:30
Cincinnati to Columbus for example and so if you were heading from Portsmouth to Cincinnati and something happened
00:30:39
once you shoot off one of those main roads you would find Williamstown it's interesting to me that they mentioned
00:30:48
Mafia or mentioned the mob do you think that's just because of the severed hands
00:30:54
I think that the severed hand certainly has something to do with it but I think that there's probably a lot of factors
00:31:00
and I'm with you I don't I think that they're using the the term mob related and again I want I want to be clear to
00:31:07
everybody out there in listener land they're saying possibly they're not locked in or married to this idea that
00:31:12
it has to be mob related but I feel like mob is a bit of a blanketed statement that could mean any cartel any kind of
00:31:21
organization working on the down low organized crime it could be related to that why again you got to go back to the
00:31:29
fact that this guy does not appear to have been reported missing at any time it looks like whoever is responsible for
00:31:37
this they either a knew what they were doing or B did a really good job doing it for the first time well this is
00:31:45
definitely one of the cases that we've covered and maybe top of the list where when I see the picture that they've done
00:31:54
of this victim how lifelike it is I believe if we can get enough listeners to share this story and to share his
00:32:04
picture all over the Internet somebody will come forward and identify this man after 30
00:32:12
years of not being identified well and that's why I wanted to feature this case and feature it for the Kentucky State
00:32:19
Police because again they are very much invested in finding out who this individual was and I think that Captain
00:32:26
maybe we can push this story a little further than what they've been able to do in their years of hard work and
00:32:34
effort but I think maybe we might have the ability to reach some more people at a greater distance that
00:32:41
they've been able to reach I will be taking his image and put it on our Instagram Twitter Facebook
00:32:49
at True Crime garage it will also be front and center on our website at truecrime garage.com now it's never been
00:32:58
published what the exact address or location of the barn was all the reports simply say that it's located about seven
00:33:07
and a half miles west of Dry Ridge Kentucky and the police report that we were able to get our hands on which it's
00:33:15
a very limited report it's a single page says that the victim was found inside a
00:33:19
Tobacco Barn on skillcroft Sheet Metal incorporated Farm property located on Kentucky Route 22
00:33:30
seven and a half miles west of Dry Ridge now we were able to do a little further
00:33:35
digging and confirm the exact location of the barn so it's located at 8100 Taft Highway if you follow Route 22 on the
00:33:46
map West from Dry Ridge you can see the rural nature of the location of this large out building it seems unlikely
00:33:55
even almost impossible that someone from out of town would stumble on this location and select this one Barn in the
00:34:06
middle of nowhere at random as a reporter on local 12 TV news station pointed out quote whoever killed
00:34:14
this John Doe went to a lot of trouble to hide his dead body he wasn't killed at the barn so someone likely drove
00:34:22
Interstate 75 south or Interstate 75 North took the Dry Ridge exit and drove seven miles out of town to pick out the
00:34:32
barn I directed horror films I would use tobacco Barns and all my movies I think they're absolutely creepy
00:34:42
looking they almost look like there's uh like bats like big human-sized bats or like the Mothman is like hanging upside
00:34:51
down if you don't know what a Tobacco Barn looks like the first time you see one in person it can shake you up like
00:35:01
what is that and then once they explain it to you obviously it makes a lot more sense but it really looks like almost
00:35:09
these giant bats are hanging from the ceiling yeah tobacco leaves are large and nobody really likes bats but you do
00:35:19
not want to encounter a large group of really big ones right or Mothman right and so yeah I've never been personally
00:35:28
been inside of a real-life Tobacco Barn but I've seen them on TV and seen the tobacco leaves hanging from the rafters
00:35:36
and I get a good idea of what you're talking about here Captain yeah the first time I came across when I was
00:35:43
going on to my buddy's farm land and I parked the car and it was it just became dark
00:35:50
and all you could see is these things in the barn kind of swaying back and forth
00:35:56
and from a distance I was like are those bats or birds or or maybe even like deer carcasses just hanging like I
00:36:05
I couldn't tell what they were from that distance and like I said in the dark here's the thing for me and while we're
00:36:11
on the subject of the barn TV images of This Barn show that it is a very large out building it's very close to the road
00:36:20
in fact I would say almost right next to the road yeah it's not far the road is a
00:36:26
small two-lane roadway winding through the countryside and pasture land if someone was looking for a structure to
00:36:33
place the body in well then this Barn would kind of just jump out at you gotcha because it's very visible
00:36:42
but to me that begs the question why inside of the barn and why this Barn there are plenty there's plenty of land
00:36:52
around there hundreds of thousands of Acres where a body might never be found and look take this an extra step here
00:37:01
clearly when they're removing the hands they don't want their victim to be identified why because identification of
00:37:09
this victim probably leads the authorities directly to the killer or Killers would be my guess and I'm
00:37:16
guessing captain that Kentucky State Police that's why they're holding back so much information in this case because
00:37:22
they know that or believe that to be true as well so why if you're so concerned about this
00:37:31
man the victim being identified why Place him in a barn and then pile up a bunch of barn [ __ ] on top of this guy
00:37:39
why wouldn't you take him out in the middle of nowhere and bury him you know what I mean it seems to me like that
00:37:45
would be more likely or do we have a situation where there is reason that he was in that Barn
00:37:53
that it has something to do with with persons close to the perpetrator or the perpetrators themselves again we know
00:38:00
that the owner Barn owner property owner everybody was looked at and investigated
00:38:05
but we don't know what the finding or the results of that event investigation was well a couple things here were they
00:38:12
trying to frame somebody or cast suspicion on somebody else I get what you know I'm picking up what you're
00:38:19
putting down but we're also again there's they're saying 220 he might have been a little heavier but he's a big boy
00:38:26
like you said it's close to the road if you have two individuals we can put them
00:38:31
in this Barn try to conceal him that's going to give us a little extra time taking his clothes severing the hands
00:38:39
this is going to give us even more time but how far would they be able to carry this individual from their car to this
00:38:49
land I mean because if you just bury him in the middle of a field the farmer is going to see that he's going to say well
00:38:56
what the hell happened here so maybe they thought by putting him in the barn that's close to the road we can conceal
00:39:03
him because a lot of times when we we have these victims that can be identified very quickly they're
00:39:10
discarded on the side of the road like trash and in an open field for somebody to come along and identify that it's
00:39:18
even a body quickly well and I'm putting down what you're picking up here Captain
00:39:21
so after the autopsy was done on our John Doe he was buried in an unmarked grave in Dry Ridge where he was say
00:39:31
buried for the next 28 years now in 2017 there was a renewed push to identify him
00:39:39
a sketch of his face was done by a forensic artist now this is not the sketch that you're going to see when you
00:39:45
come to truecrime garage.com because there's been advancements on the sketch the original sketch was prepared in 2009
00:39:54
and this showed what his face was estimated to have looked like before it was decomposed now that black and white
00:40:03
image showed a man with a smile very straight white teeth prominent cheekbones and a crew cut it's a
00:40:09
distinctive face in that sketch but it's a drawing it's so it doesn't really look
00:40:14
like anyone real to me it was in 2016 that a computer-aided image the one that you will see when you go to True Crime
00:40:22
garage.com was prepared and this was based on bone structure of our John Doe so this is a
00:40:30
digitally enhanced image that looks much more like a black and white photograph right it shows a more menacing looking
00:40:39
man some have said with a very square jaw a broad face and broken nose notably reports accompanying the release of this
00:40:48
sketch included that the John Doe had brown eyes like you pointed out there captain and that was the first to my
00:40:56
knowledge that they were indicating what they believed the eye color of this man
00:41:02
was so obviously when they find a man with no hands I mean that perks the ears up right what what about
00:41:12
more of this urban legend of of him being him hanging from the barn yeah that was kind of the story in the
00:41:20
beginning and it seems like that story has survived a little bit over the decades that have passed that when his
00:41:26
body was located he was found hanging inside the barn which we pointed out at the top of the show is just frankly not
00:41:33
true and we know this based off of again Kentucky State Police they're holding a
00:41:39
lot of information close to the vest here and kudos to them because I think they're going to identify this guy
00:41:45
sooner rather than later so I don't blame them for doing so and they were very helpful when we reached out to them
00:41:51
they basically said look we can answer a couple questions but we can't go into great detail on some of the things that
00:41:57
we know they did confirm however that he was not hanging in the barn they did confirm that the one report that we
00:42:04
found that said he was inside the barn found underneath a pile of barn type items right that that is in fact true
00:42:13
that and I don't know what these items were there's no description ever given I don't know if these are seed sacks or
00:42:19
hay bales or or what have you or farming tools exacts could be any number of things including lots of nut sacks but
00:42:28
they were able to confirm that for us so thank you to the Kentucky State Police now well hold on a second because this
00:42:36
individual was shot twice in the head yes so if he was hanging to me you're trying to make a statement
00:42:43
right but he he wasn't he simply wasn't right he was which makes sense because you would not take that individual's
00:42:52
you would not sever his hands if you're trying to make a statement because you'd
00:42:56
want people to know that you did this to this individual to me that that would make
00:43:04
the most sense if this individual was shot and then they went through the trouble to hang him from the rap Rafters
00:43:11
in a Tobacco Barn it's to make a statement and so the fact that they try to cover up this individual to me it's
00:43:19
again just another step to cover up his identity and like you said that's probably going to lead them to his
00:43:27
killer his identity is probably going to lead him to somebody that is going to stick out like a sore thumb it's even I
00:43:34
mean the the placement of the body makes zero sense to me not to see it doesn't doesn't make zero sense to me not that
00:43:42
it shouldn't not that it should make any sense to me but the thing is like why place them in the barn if you do why go
00:43:48
to the extra effort of piling all these items on top of him it's not like whoever's entering the barn isn't just
00:43:55
going to clear all those items and find him now now as back to your original question hold on the other thing about
00:44:02
the Tobacco Barn is there's a definite smell from tobacco so maybe maybe they thought if we put them in this barn and
00:44:10
we put some stuff over him look we all know buddies that have like big Barns and they know every item in that barn
00:44:20
and where it was moved and the last time it was moved so I think maybe they thought okay the tobacco smell will help
00:44:27
cover up the decaying body we we put some stuff onto them to conceal him and maybe it's months before
00:44:36
he's found because I mean you did say his face was badly decomposed so that makes me wonder what well was he killed
00:44:44
somewhere else and left somewhere else for a while and then they moved the body or was the decomposition done with
00:44:52
inside that Tobacco Barn that's a great question and that's why at the top of the show I brought up the fact of we
00:44:58
don't know the last time that this C.W Adams went into the barn that would be really interesting to know number one
00:45:06
and again it would be interesting to know people were probably scratching their heads going why does the colonel
00:45:11
care so much it would be interesting to know what items were piled on top of this John Doe because again I would
00:45:18
think it would be it would just be even more obvious to the individual entering the barn that hey there's something
00:45:25
there these items have been moved where you could again we're kind of speculating and spinning our tires here
00:45:32
I just wonder if you could have delayed the discovery of John Doe even further by just placing him in a dark corner
00:45:40
somewhere in this barn but as you pointed out so astutely there we don't know it could be the fact that this guy
00:45:47
was placed in there relatively quickly after he was killed and just not discovered for weeks or months and that
00:45:56
the decaying process took place inside the barn but well back to your your original question here Captain
00:46:03
is where I think that the folklore the local legend of the man in the barn being found hanging in the barn I think
00:46:15
it came from the original coroner who referenced John Doe as possibly being hung because we have his comments that
00:46:26
are to me reason to believe that the whole myth of the uh right man hanging came from him so my best guess here
00:46:36
again we don't have the autopsy to confirm this it's not available anywhere but my best guess here is that there's a
00:46:44
chance that they may have found some kind of ligature Mark or maybe even some kind of ligature still on John Doe's
00:46:52
neck they're the original Corner earlier said quote they hung him which we know based
00:46:58
off of the information from the police is not true so you wonder then was there an attempt to strangle this man before
00:47:07
he was eventually shot yeah or he could have got into a altercation with the individual
00:47:13
he's choking the individual he's being choked by the murderer the guy pulls out a gun puts two in his head and goes well
00:47:21
his hands were around my throat I need to sever his hands so they take the whatever DNA off but
00:47:29
back to like you said when would this farmer be in the barn last this is why I think it's not a bad dumping part drying
00:47:38
tobacco is is kind of a curing process which can take between three and eight weeks to properly prepare tobacco for
00:47:46
use so if you know that and maybe you know more about what tobacco looks like when it's freshly hung
00:47:55
that you would know hey if I put this individual here they might not come out and check on this tobacco for eight
00:48:02
weeks that gives you a quite a bit of Head Start exactly I'm just of the belief and
00:48:09
I'm I could be very wrong here I think if this guy was local if our John Doe was local even remotely local yeah I
00:48:18
agree that they would have they would have been able to connect him to some kind of missing person or or otherwise
00:48:25
we do have to point out some of the more recent movement on this case and this comes back from uh 2017 when
00:48:36
they decided to exhume the body of our John Doe and what they did here Captain was they severed his arms above the
00:48:46
elbows and then sent the detached limbs to the FBI's laboratory this is to serve
00:48:54
a two-fold purpose one there are hopes that the FBI can determine what type of implement was used to cut off his hands
00:49:05
by examining the limbs for Tool marks and so on the other is for the purpose of DNA extraction the arms sent to the
00:49:14
FBI would contain dna-rich material that will provide a genetic profile of this victim and once the dnao profile of the
00:49:24
John Doe is isolated from his arm tissue it's then entered into CODIS and database of criminal offenders and
00:49:33
missing persons that did not exist in 1989 when his body was located they might be able to pull DNA
00:49:41
that is not his of his Limbs and so far they've done their best but to this date
00:49:49
no hits have been obtained now the next step in this case was for the State Police to
00:49:59
arrange for John Doe's DNA profile to be provided to the DNA dough project to commence the forensic genealogy process
00:50:09
so if we can't find a match directly to him in any of the databases using his DNA which we now have did not have in
00:50:17
1989 they're hoping that now well maybe we can find a relative or a twin of this
00:50:26
individual or a family tree of our John Doe and find out through contacting them
00:50:32
in other scientific measures to figure out who this guy was again I'm of the belief that once they identify our John
00:50:40
Doe it's going to lead you to probably a very short list of suspects one have you
00:50:47
ever heard of the Grateful dough The Grateful dough pretty interesting story The Grateful dough the reason why he was
00:50:55
called grateful dough was he was found wearing a Grateful Dead t-shirt the man was killed in a car accident on June 26
00:51:05
1995 and Greensville County Virginia now his body remained nameless until December 9 2015.
00:51:16
and eventually his mom came forward because and and this is all stemmed from computer generated images of
00:51:25
Jason and so once they were able to put those out on Facebook his mother was able to come forward and
00:51:33
say that was my son he actually went missing he went missing because he went to follow the Grateful Dead and then was
00:51:41
killed in this car accident and then his body remained nameless like I said but it was all solved through social media
00:51:47
so as much as they're trying to do very good work on this case I think the best chance we have look I really believe
00:51:56
that the True Crime Community can get behind this case share his image share his image on Facebook Instagram Twitter
00:52:05
Tick Tock let's get this guy identified let's send this guy home yes crowdsourcing can be a powerful and
00:52:13
important tool in these types of Investigations and so can the science as well and I'm glad to report to everyone
00:52:21
that in June of 2021 the DNA doe project posted in regard to this very case that
00:52:32
the they have funded the case they were fundraising to raise funds to be able to
00:52:39
do some of the work on this case their goal was three thousand dollars major funding for this case was provided by
00:52:46
Patty Sullivan and they were able to reach that goal so a big thank you to Patty Sullivan and all of the other
00:52:54
donors that contributed to the DNA dough project for not just the Grant County John Doe case but all of the others so
00:53:04
what does this mean it means that they have secured sufficient funding to pay for the forensic genealogy process in
00:53:12
the Grant County John Doe case so now while they run their investigation and their forensic
00:53:22
genealogy process we can crowdsource His Image crowdsource his information which that stuff is still information
00:53:31
that's needed anyway even if you even if we're able to link him to a family tree
00:53:36
or figure out who this guy was we need to know as much about him as possible again I think it's going to lead to a
00:53:47
short list of suspects once he is in fact positively identified one thing I want to point out though Captain when
00:53:54
we're talking about crowdsourcing and one thing that you hit on right from Jump Street here is again the height of
00:54:03
this individual is very important that separates him from a lot of other potential unidentified individuals or
00:54:10
even missing persons that there were reports filed for so the vi cap according to the FBI He's listed at six
00:54:20
foot five inches tall just to give everybody a bit of reference in the power of that little piece of
00:54:30
information I went on to the Charlie projects website to look at known individuals that have been reported
00:54:37
missing and with a simple search of typing in John Doe's height the return was Zero
00:54:45
that there were zero missing males according to the Charlie project that are listed at six foot five inches tall
00:54:52
now if we take that down right let's say that maybe he's listed at six foot four
00:54:59
whoever reported him missing thinks that he's six foot four inches tall there's 110 males that are missing that are six
00:55:06
foot four inches tall some of them the majority of them in fact the overwhelming majority of them have been
00:55:12
reported missing after this guy's body was found in that Barn so it cannot be them well it could be them because
00:55:19
somebody goes missing in your reported missing afterwards and then if you take that number and go up to six foot six
00:55:25
inches tall there are just 14 males that are listed on the Charlie projects website so again that's a powerful piece
00:55:35
of information in this case a powerful piece of information in this case will be what they believe he looked like his
00:55:42
likeness that we now have that computer image of and and it's very detailed in my opinion the captain's going to put it
00:55:50
on the website and you'll be able to check that out at True Crime garage.com now the question is could be why bother
00:55:58
with this at all right there's a lot of work going on in this 30 year old case there are plenty of recent homicides
00:56:06
that are unsolved why push this to solve this one from 1989. now some members of
00:56:13
law enforcement involved in this case have commented directly on that per Fox 19 News quote there's some family
00:56:21
somewhere they're wondering where their Uncle their son their brother where they're at and they deserve to have that
00:56:29
peace of mind this is a quote from the Kentucky State Police and it goes on to say we are very
00:56:35
hopeful that we are going to get a match we don't have any family to contact it's
00:56:41
really sad the family they never had that peace of mind there's someone out there who's missing a son or an uncle or
00:56:49
a dad and as you pointed out Captain the Kentucky State Police share and Echo your words exactly they say he deserves
00:56:57
to go back home his family deserves to know where he is he was buried in a Popper's grave with no headstone yeah so
00:57:05
it's a pretty simple call to action if you can share this image with friends and family if share it on social media I
00:57:13
think we might be able to make a difference in this case and I want to take this just a step further right
00:57:19
because of course it's not just for Humane or sentimental reasons that we want to identify the Grant County John
00:57:28
Doe we True Crime garage want to identify him and remind everybody out there that
00:57:36
this guy was murdered someone murdered him and that murderer has gotten away with
00:57:42
it for decades now that we have the ability to use modern science to provide answers no matter how old the crime is
00:57:51
it's a worthwhile undertaking to try to bring closure to families and Justice to
00:57:57
the victims no matter how old their cases may be well and I think we both agree with him being such a large
00:58:03
individual there's probably more than one individual responsible so it's two or more bags of [ __ ] that need to be
00:58:13
held responsible for this heinous crime so please take a minute to go to our website truecrime garage.com look at
00:58:21
this individual to see if you can help if anybody out there listening has any information on this case or the identity
00:58:28
of this individual at all please contact the Kentucky State Police at 859-428-1212 or FBI VI cap at
00:58:40
800-634-4097 foreign [Music] thank you guys so much for joining us here in the garage if you'd like to have
00:59:01
an evening with me the captain you can do so in Champaign Illinois on December 11th the show starts at 6 30 and we'll
00:59:10
be doing a meet and greet afterwards at eight o'clock it's at the Blind Pig company and that's in Champaign Illinois
00:59:17
get the tickets at captainfatheands.com Colonel do we have any recommended reading this week this
00:59:24
week we got a little recommended listening check out the Beyond bizarre True Crime podcast this is a weekly
00:59:30
podcast with a different guest host or host each week coming from the world of True Crime podcasts and the guests
00:59:39
select the case and tell you about this truly bizarre case in their own style and news flash here the old captain and
00:59:47
Colonel well we hosted last week so make sure you check out the Beyond bizarre True Crime podcast wherever you get your
00:59:55
podcast enjoy join us back here in the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't let it
01:00:12
[Music] [Applause] foreign