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[Music] [Applause] [Applause] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that when asked how do you pay for all these
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parking tickets he said Straight Cash homie he is of course the captain because Homie don't play that it's good
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to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] today we are drinking Diamond bear brewing companies pale ale out of Little
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Rock Arkansas garage grade three and a half bottle caps out of five you know I've never been to Little Rock right but
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I was reading this Travel magazine recently saying Little Rock is a very very cool City to travel to and if I
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were there Captain I would be drinking some Diamond bare pale ale because this is earthy malts versus Bright Beautiful
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hops that is highly drinkable they worked on perfecting this recipe for two years and Diamond bear was brought to us
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by these lovely garage guys and girls first up we have Dee and Jen who says we love you guys this is from out in the
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cornfields of Iowa and a big shout out to Shannon in El Paso Texas next we have Justine and upway Victoria Australia and
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all the way from Sweden we have Annika and we also have Maritza from San Fernando California and last but not
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least a big we like your jib to Marina over in England so thanks to everyone who helped to fill up the fridge for
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this week's show if you'd like to help us with our next Beer Run go to truecrime garage.com and click on the
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Donate button and for all old episodes or bonus episodes check out the website store at true crime garage.com or in the
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iTunes Store all right Captain that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's
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talk some true crime [Music] [Music] foreign disappeared from the Bowling World parking lot on December 1st
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1994. now her body was found about six weeks later on yesterday's show we were able to go through some of the early
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leads in the investigation what they were tracking down and then the finding of her body today we want to get into
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some of the suspects Ladonna had said that there were a lot of the level 3 sex offenders in the area well there were
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also some very dangerous people that were probably in that area in December of 1994. we'll get into that today so
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let's dive into the two major suspects let's start with Travis Crouch um absolutely now there are quite a few
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suspects some of them and I can't talk about but some of the most promising suspects are what I'd like to touch on
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and there's two of those and and the first is Travis Dale Crouch and Travis is an Arkansas native
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um he is currently in prison in Colorado we can touch on why but he um he's from the Ozark
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area in fact he lived and worked at a church camp when he was a child that was about a mile from where Melissa witt's
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body was found and then later at the time of her disappearance and death even though he
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might try to argue this point we've been able to prove that he was a carpenter at that same church camp again
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that was about a mile from where her body was found in 1994. so what is Travis in prison for and how can we
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connect him to Melissa witt's murder well Travis is currently in prison in Colorado for the right of a young woman
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he met her at a mall he um talked with her in the parking lot was able to I guess trick her
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coerce her to give him a ride somewhere so they got in the car together he then forced her to a remote
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Mountaintop out in the middle of nowhere where he made her take off all of her clothes
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he um raped her and he then passed out due to a to an overdose of drugs at the time just as drug-induced
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type situation and she knew based on you know testimonies that she gave to the court that's how I know this
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she knew he was going to kill her so she fled from the car completely nude and ran for her life and she was able to
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escape so he's currently in prison in Colorado for that crime and he did not become
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is any interest in the Melissa Witt case until several years after her body was found some people came
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forward I can't give a lot of details about who they were for their own protection but they came forward to law
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enforcement and said that they had suspected Travis and law enforcement tracked Travis down we do know that he
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was in the area although he claimed that you know he had left you know the Ozark area well before you
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know Melissa was kidnapped and murdered but that was not the case we have other witnesses to date that have given
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statements that he was indeed in town you know Travis was um heavily into drugs and alcohol he had
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a history of violence against women a long history of violence against women I've done a lot of investigative work
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into Travis's life talking to a lot of people that he knew and that he was involved with and he was Notorious for
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raping women at gunpoint knife Point um he got a lot he got away with a lot of different crimes but just you know
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overall violence but you know what's interesting about him is that he committed a fairly similar crime you
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know the girl was taken to a remote location where she was you know raped and she escaped and she was totally nude
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and you know I shared with you earlier you know some of my theory about what could have happened was Melissa and that
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kind of lines up um you know he knew the area very well he lived and worked a mile away from her
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body was you know where her body was found and then you know we were later able to
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uncover from you know different witnesses that came forward that he actually participated in some illegal
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activities in that very area where Melissa's body was found now you said that he's committed some illegal
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activity in that area where her body was found but I'm guessing with his well-known drug use that we're talking
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about dealing drugs and purchasing drugs in that area you're correct um not only
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were there drug dealings that he actually grew marijuana plants near that very rock where Melissa's body was found
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so you know that area meant something to him and he had a violent history of violent history against women he lied
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originally about his whereabouts when Melissa went missing and was murdered so yeah he's he's definitely a suspect that
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you know law enforcement cannot rule him out he does not cooperate he hasn't cooperated with our team you know we've
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reached out to family and friends of his and so we've done a lot of work in looking at Travis Crouch and he he will
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remain a number one suspect until he either you know decides to cooperate or we can
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find the evidence to prove that he did indeed kill Melissa Witt so if Travis did this this would be a stranger on
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Stranger type crime you know quite possibly I mean he was from that area um he was living in that area it's
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possible that you know he he had ran into her at the mall you know just to put it in even more context when he
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um you know met the girl that he raped on that remote Mountaintop in Colorado he met her at a mall and the day Melissa
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went went missing she had lunch at the local mall with her friend we know that the malls were one of Travis's favorite
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spots I think it's feasible to think that maybe he ran across Melissa that day maybe they had a conversation
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maybe he followed her that's that's completely plausible thing that could have happened
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okay time out here Captain because Ladonna presents a an interesting observation here that potentially Travis
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could have been watching at the mall yeah and spotted Melissa there I mean what better place if if you have if
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you're a predator and you have a type that you're you're hunting yeah um what better place to go to if you're
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looking for someone you know 18 19 year old 20 year old attractive young woman you go to the you go to the mall
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and maybe not so much even just a type but this is this is your Mo you know we've seen this multiple times in in
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serial killers or serial rapists where they kind of come up with a plan uh their job then becomes to execute that
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plan over and over and to get better at it and we already know that he likes to pick up his prey from the mall and it's
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pretty simple too because if you if you go to the mall you find somebody that you like you follow them if they
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end up in a situation where they could be easily compromised right you abduct them and you've achieved your mission if
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not if that situation never arises you just go back to the mall the next week and repeat and this is something that if
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this was Travis and if this is his Mo you know this wasn't the first day that he went to the mall and this happened
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this is something he probably did time and time again until he found a person that that he thought he could easily
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overcome well and think about how many times we see it with with other Killers again where it's you're developing so
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you know somebody like um uh Ted bunny will be a peeping Tom first you know and so they're developing so he could have
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just been going to the mall for a while you know just as a let's say as a kid and and he just like going there and
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following a girl around and that became okay now I want to follow her outside side of the mall now you know I mean uh
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and it seems like he also needed to be on drugs during this time so um you kind of see that too with
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somebody like Dahmer for example yeah um needed to be or wanted to be right right um I guess there could be a debate
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there the situation though for me would be if this was Travis and if where he first encountered Melissa was in fact
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the mall we have to keep in mind that that he would have been not easily detected
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because we don't see any scenario where Melissa appears to be on guard for the rest of the day she was not at the mall
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alone you know and we we've interviewed that person investigators have interviewed that person later they don't
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give any clues any leads as to that aspect um so this person would have been where Travis seems to have been very out
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of control in his attack in Colorado and you're you're right that's because of the drug use
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um whoever if this war was his Mo and he was at the mall that day he was in control at that time
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um he he would not have stood out for any reason he necessarily didn't actually have to meet her you know it
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could have just been he she caught his eye and he just kind of followed her at a distance okay Ladonna that's the thing
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that you have to ask yourself is this just pure coincidence that this guy that has picked up followed a girl from a
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mall before and our victim here Melissa happened to be at the mall earlier that day right he also has ties to the
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location where her body is eventually found the big question I have is you know we
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know he's capable of rape because that's what he's been convicted of in Colorado
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what I need to be convinced of is how are why are we so convinced he's capable of murder because it's alleged
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that he's committed multiple rapes at gunpoint before what made that attack in Colorado different from the previous
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attacks yeah and how do we know that he was going to kill his victim in Colorado
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well I mean that's based on her testimony so the only reason she got away from him is because he was also
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drinking and doing drugs while he held her in this car I mean he was raping her repeatedly it was a violent attack but
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he passed out and she was so certain that he was going to kill her when he woke up that instead
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of trying to put her clothes on or even take him with her she took off completely nude she knew she couldn't
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waste any time to get away from him that's her testimony she escaped with her life
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she was certain he was going to kill her and the attack was just so brutal and violent and as far as the other rapes
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now those are things that he was never charged for now these are these are rapes that occurred
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um to women who did not come forward to law enforcement for a variety of reasons
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perhaps um you know some examples and I I'm talking in a little bit vager terms because some
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of these women that I've been in touch with I need to protect them because he will be paroled at some point and I want
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to be certain that if Travis Crouch hears this that he he isn't able to go after the particular
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people that I have spoken to but you know these were women that were involved in some things that were
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um less than desirable doesn't mean that they deserve what happened to them and that's not what I'm implying but those
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were their words that's what they told me and that's why they didn't go to law enforcement
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and you know he um Travis you know he being Travis was involved in a biker gang and some other activities that were
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just very violent I mean he tried to kill a man in one state served some time there you know he he's been arrested
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pretty much in every state that he's ever been in South Carolina Louisiana Colorado Arkansas for you know anything
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from theft to trying to burn things down to you know stabbing people but he you know Travis has been described as
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someone that has no care at all for life it doesn't matter to him I mean he's literally walked up
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to people and just and stabbed them in a bar he he just he doesn't care um you know he wasn't a half bad looking
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guy all those years ago I mean I said seen some photos of him so it's easy for me to believe that a young girl might
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talk to him at first and be flattered and not realize you know what they were dealing with but he's he's a dangerous
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predator and I hope that he did not get paroled but it's looking like parole is quite possible for him in about eight
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years do we have any eyewitnesses that would put Travis in the area back in December of 1994.
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um we do we have people that that continue to say that he was in the area we can't place where he was for sure
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um we know that he was arrested in in New Orleans on New Year's Eve or day I'm not really sure how that worked out if
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it happened at midnight or 1201 a.m you know where that but but that's the next arrest that he had but you know we we
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have pretty reliable sources that have come forward all these years later that say oh no you know Travis was here and
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they believed that um they that he took off to Louisiana shortly after the body was found because
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he was a flight afraid he was going to be blamed is is what some of these sources have told us but as far as you
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know being able to definitely prove that you know beyond A Reasonable Doubt no we
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can't but you know enough people have come forward to kind of paint a picture for us that we're very confident that
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Travis was here we're very confident that he has people that were close to him you know relatives that have
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not told the truth because they want to protect Travis and you know there's only
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one reason why he would lie and say no I I was I'd already taken off to Louisiana but he was really here because
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he was possibly involved in this crime he has something to hide for sure but he he has not responded to any of my
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requests for an interview and he has not responded to any of my letters in prison
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I have corresponded with um his mother and a sister of his but you know we've not had any real
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cooperation so you say that you know that Travis was arrested in Louisiana on either New Year's Eve or New Year's Day
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but she wasn't found until the 13th fill me in here are we saying that that after he was arrested that he was
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released and potentially came back to Arkansas he was released after that arrest and he started traveling
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We Believe back through this area as he made his way to to meet with some friends to possibly go on to his next
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adventure and I'm not sure if he went to South Carolina first or he went straight
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to Colorado it's really difficult to track his movements because you have to remember it's two decades later and
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you're dealing with people that don't really want to cooperate so he wasn't held very long in Louisiana maybe a day
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for that arrest from what I recall so you know it doesn't mean that he came back and he was the one that moved the
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body it's possible well let's think about this that someone that was close to him knew that he had
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killed Melissa Witt and perhaps they were overcome with guilt and they moved the body I mean any anything like that
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is possible you know I I can't say for sure and I can't say for sure that Thomas Crouch tells Melissa wet but he's
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an awfully good suspect that has lied repeatedly has a violent history and refuses to cooperate so I mean it seems
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to me that he would want to help rule himself out but he has no desire to do that well with this drug use too I mean
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you have to wonder if he even knows that he did the crime possible possible my guess would be if
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he spotted her at the mall he has some good recollection of what took place leading up to getting her in
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his vehicle meaning he was probably sober at some point yeah and he would recognize her face on the the news right
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but I guess the thought here is that maybe what's more likely is that because of his intense drug use day after day
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and alcohol use and a combination of both that he probably got so intoxicated or
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high one day that he told somebody either where Melissa was where her body was or what he had done yes that's my
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thought because he was he was heavily into drugs heavily into drugs the only thing that kept him from
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from remaining that kind of a drug addict is this the stint that he's doing in prison for the rape of that girl in
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Colorado I mean Travis Travis was just walking chaos [Music] all right we're back cheers
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before we get back to Ladonna with her second suspect in the Melissa Witt murder case the first suspect Travis
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Crouch it seems to me that the story the theory would be this that he would have
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gone to the mall looking for a potential victim that day came across Melissa followed her for a portion of that day
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until he saw his opportunity with her getting out of her vehicle in the in the parking lot at the bowling alley that's
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a pretty big time Gap too approaches her as the Ladonna said that this Travis may
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be an attractive young man that she may not have run off screaming from immediately right
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he attacks her forces her into his vehicle dumps her in a location takes her to a location that he knows well
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murders her there leaves the body there and then at some point in some kind of uh stupor some some intoxicated stupor
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he tells somebody that he knows someone close to him either where she's located or what he has done yeah so either he
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moves the body or somebody that he told possibly moves the body yeah um potentially he could have moved the
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body because he told somebody where it was but you would think that if if the whole point it was concealing the body
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you would move it to a location that would conceal it further rather than putting it in a
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place where it would be found right but I think the theory on this is that uh well
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in his drunken stupor or drug State maybe he did this and didn't mean to didn't mean to bring her out into the
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open or again if he told somebody that their guilt got to him and figured hey if I move the body somebody will find it
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but I'm with Ladonna I think there's no coincidence that there happens to be this phone call where somebody seems to
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be describing Melissa Witt and then the next day the bodies found I don't think that's any coincidence at
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all well let's get into the second suspect well um for the murder of Melissa Trotter
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Melissa Trotter was a 19 year old Community College Student in Montgomery County Texas
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she met Larry Swearingen by chance in a you know it's like a convenience store slash pizza parlor type parking area
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where their conversation was videotaped by a security camera they talked for two
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hours on December 6th in this parking lot just in this little area on the outskirts of Lake Conroe in Texas okay
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so we know that he came across her we know he was very intrigued by Melissa Trotter and according to testimony in in
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the Melissa Toronto murder trial he went back to work the next day and told some
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of his fellow electricians that he's met this really cute girl and that she was going to meet him for lunch that day
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well Melissa Trotter set him up didn't show up for lunch and these same Witnesses told the court in the murder
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trial that when she stood him up that he became very angry eerily angry so that was the seventh we know that Witnesses
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saw Larry swearington on the campus of the community college in Montgomery County Texas on December 8th that he sat
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and talked with Melissa and that they left together they got in his vehicle Melissa Trotter was never seen again
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never seen again she was found roughly you know 30 40 days later in the Sam Houston National Forest
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and she had been strangled she had been sexually assaulted and strangled how long until they make an arrest on Larry
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Swearingen you know he [Music] you know they were able to determine really quickly that he knew Melissa
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Trotter they were able to pull that security camera footage they were able to get you know some information about
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the things that he was saying about Melissa Trotter and they were really able to tie the pieces together pretty
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quickly his wife at the time would later testify that when she came home to their
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trailer that evening that the trailer was in a disarray you know he had brought Melissa
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Trotter back to the trailer that's where it's believed that she most likely spurned
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his sexual advances and he then raped her and strangled her with a section of his wife's pantyhose
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and then loaded her up and dumped her body in the Sam Houston National Forest of course he denies it what evidence do
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we have against Larry Swearingen in this case and we know that he has disputed that he was at work at the time that
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Melissa Trotter disappeared well there's a lot of evidence there's a it's what's
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described as a mountain of evidence against Larry Swearingen and I would agree with that as I have the court
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transcripts the testimony against Larry Swearingen and the Melissa Trotter trial
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so I've taken about a year and a half to do a case study on Larry swearington he
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killed Melissa Trotter there's no doubt but as far as evidence there was hair and fiber evidence found in his truck
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that belonged to Melissa Trotter there was you know fiber evidence fiber evidence
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on her body that belonged to Larry Swearingen um you know he had a cell phone at the
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time and it pinged right around the area where um he would have to had to have driven through to
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dump her body in the Sam Houston National Forest you know her pack of cigarettes were
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left behind in the trailer that lived where Larry Swearingen lived later they were
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able to find the other section of pantyhose that was used you know he tore it apart to strangle Melissa in a trash
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can at Larry's warington's house paperwork that belonged to Melissa Trotter was found all in this area near
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where Larry swearington's family lived it was all found strong strung out across the street so it's almost like it
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has been blown out of a trash can or some kind of some kind of area where Larry had hidden it so that's
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just a little bit of evidence that is against Larry Swearingen of course he and his defense team try to paint a
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picture that he had been at work that he had picked his grandmother up that you know he and Melissa Trotter were just
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great friends but you have to keep in mind he had only met Melissa Trotter two days prior
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there wasn't a great friendship with Melissa Trotter yeah there are a lot of of interviews
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with Larry swearington out there in different forms of media about this case and if you put them all
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together he never tells the same story about Melissa Trotter it always changes you know what one story is that they had
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a consensual sexual relationship for weeks well that's not possible he only knew her for two days
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you know that they were great friends and they spent a lot of time together well that's not true he only knew her
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for two days and she stood him up the next day after they met I mean it's it's a lot of
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um you know smoke and mirrors with Larry Swearingen and his defense team to try to create doubt in the minds of the
00:28:18
general public that he did not kill Melissa Trotter but the the fact is is he did Kill Melissa Trotter there's just
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no two ways about it were you able to speak with his ex-wife he has me many Ex-Wives and I have spoken to two of
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them they have been very very Cooperative with me these two particularly and I I prefer not to use
00:28:40
their names but they these two wives have have shared with me how Larry tried to strangle both of them in Anger that
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he was violent he was volatile and they firmly believe that he killed not only Melissa Trotter but that he also killed
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Melissa Witt and they believe that he has killed other women and I I'm in agreement I believe that Larry
00:29:03
swearington is a serial killer before we get into that let's get into Larry's background
00:29:09
it sounds to me like he had traveled around a lot he was some kind of contractor or an electrician is that
00:29:17
correct you're correct he um traveled as a journeyman electrician he most often traveled with his stepfather Joe
00:29:24
Martinez and they traveled all across the Eastern United States all kinds of areas you know he's being looked at by
00:29:33
law enforcement in many different locations where there were young women found strangled he's a prime suspect and
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more than just these two cases but what about his background he had been in a lot of trouble in school he had broken
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into um you know his own high school and stolen some things he was in trouble quite a bit for selling cars you know
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breaking entering into buildings you know fighting just a variety of things I mean just a career criminal is how I
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would describe Larry swearing the funny thing here Captain when we spoke with Ladonna and we got into all this
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conversation about Larry Swearingen being a a key individual to look at as a suspect in the Melissa Whitt murder in
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abduction the funny thing was we were speaking with her on the date that Larry Swearingen was supposed to have been
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executed we always have a weird serendipitous things happen like that yeah he was supposed to have been
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executed on November 16th and we actually it was actually pushed pushed back before we had the conversation with
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her um however it was just kind of ironic that we were speaking with her about him
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on the very day that he was supposed to have been executed so let's listen in as
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we get some better information on to why are they pushing back his execution they
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continue to do that in the beginning they were pushing it back maybe a year and then they shortened it to the point
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where they're pushing it back just a couple of months if we continue what they've been doing he was supposed to be
00:31:06
executed in September of this year then later in November so I'm guessing maybe they'll finally kill this guy in January
00:31:13
or February of next year but let's listen into why the whole hold up is it because he's being looked at as a
00:31:21
suspect and other cases other murder cases or is it just simply the appeals process it is
00:31:30
it has nothing to do with the other cases so I will say this is that Larry Swearingen was able to look into a
00:31:37
phenomenal defense team I mean he has the Innocence Project backing him now in my opinion and it's my opinion only
00:31:47
the Innocence Project took him on because they wanted to see some of the laws change in Texas and that did happen
00:31:55
because they took on his case right it you know some the way they handle DNA in cases so that was a win for them
00:32:02
but they've worked very hard to um create this doubt that Larry Swearingen is guilty and it's a frustrating point
00:32:13
for me personally because you know as I mentioned there is a mountain of evidence that he killed Melissa Trotter
00:32:19
and it's almost offensive to me that anyone would go to these links to defend this man they're the Crux of their
00:32:25
argument is this they wanted additional DNA testing and that was part of the law
00:32:30
change that they had made it just didn't apply to Larry swearinger's case but they wanted additional DNA testing
00:32:37
um on some things that were found on Melissa Trotter's body evidence under her fingernails and I think evidence on the
00:32:46
pantyhose and some things like that but let me explain to you why that is absolutely asinine you know the jury was
00:32:53
presented with this information the jury knew going in to this case that there was a full DNA profile
00:33:01
of an of a an unknown male found under Melissa Trotter's fingernails so they knew that the the jury saw that
00:33:10
they also knew that there was a full DNA profile found on some other evidence and you know and as there would be the
00:33:19
pantyhose that he used to strangle Melissa Trotter belonged to his wife okay so there was an explanation for
00:33:25
these things so the jury knew all this and they convicted him anyway because of all of the other evidence
00:33:33
but you know of course Melissa Trotter had another DNA profile under her fingernails she had been at school that
00:33:42
day she had done all kinds of things the day before I mean she didn't meet up with Larry
00:33:48
until noon that day it's absolutely feasible that there would be another DNA profile I would be surprised if there
00:33:57
wouldn't be but you know that has just been the Crux of their argument and they just Hammer that hammer that home in the
00:34:03
media if I sound like I'm frustrated about it I am because a 19 year old girl was killed and they're dismissing the
00:34:11
mountain of evidence because they want to make an argument on something that the jury already looked
00:34:16
at and said okay I understand that it's been explained we still believe that he killed Melissa Trotter based on all
00:34:23
these other things but you know so Larry has built a career on death row of being able to weasel out
00:34:32
of these executions because they keep filing motions that keep getting struck down by the higher courts
00:34:38
but this latest situation with the the delay of his execution had had to do with two different things
00:34:46
one being that um unfortunately the paperwork was filed incorrectly in Texas with the wrong
00:34:54
office and that's just an unfortunate event that happened so that delayed is execution
00:35:01
and then you've got to couple that with this this greatest and latest Scandal of
00:35:08
Larry Swearingen where he has been working with another death row inmate for who knows how long
00:35:15
and had taught this death rower into admitting at the midnight hour before his own execution that he was the one
00:35:25
that had killed Melissa Trotter fortunately this guy and his name is Anthony Shore has some conscience before
00:35:33
it all went down and he admitted to officials what was happening and so that delayed Anthony Shore's execution but
00:35:42
it's also then created this huge media circus around Larry swearington I mean it's just one more way
00:35:49
for Larry to delay his execution and in his mind to try to create some kind of doubt where there is no doubt he killed
00:35:58
Melissa Trotter so basically Larry got this other gigantic pile of dog dookie to confess to the murder
00:36:07
of Melissa Trotter and that actually postponed both of their executions I mean you know the the justice system should
00:36:19
go hey we see what's going on here right it should be pretty simple well I mean you know Anthony Shore was known as
00:36:28
Houston's tourniquet killer so he killed many girls in the same style and fashion
00:36:35
as of Melissa Trotter or Melissa Witt you know they they were strangled but so he
00:36:42
he's also believed to have um maybe some sort of head trauma I don't know a lot about Anthony Shore but
00:36:51
I do know this I do know that Larry has been working that angle for many many years because he's got some people that
00:36:57
have been blogging for years about um health there's no way possible that it was Larry swearington that killed
00:37:06
Melissa Trotter and you know they put out the theory that it was Anthony Shore so this has been something that he's
00:37:10
planning for a very long time but Anthony um you know has admitted to the things that he has done
00:37:19
and I think that he just he just got suckered by another death row innovate I think that's what
00:37:26
happened I think that you know maybe there was a part of him that believed you know Larry that he didn't kill
00:37:33
Melissa Trotter so he was willing to take that rap for him I I don't know what kind of deal that they cut I really
00:37:39
don't but you know Larry Swearingen is very manipulative he's described as someone who's very charming and he's a
00:37:47
liar and I think that Anthony fell for that you know I don't know Anthony Shore personally but I would I would think
00:37:55
that maybe maybe he just he had a bout of conscience right before and couldn't follow through with it maybe something
00:38:03
told him that that was wrong that if he went through with this they would be letting a killer out on the street
00:38:09
because if they did Larry will just kill again there's no doubt in my mind about
00:38:14
that it's hard to understand or to know what kind of relationship those two men have I mean they're both
00:38:22
on death row because they killed young girls so you know the caliber of these people that we're talking about is not
00:38:28
the greatest so let's get into the connection between Larry Swearingen and our victim Melissa Witt I believe the
00:38:35
way that the story goes is that he was ultimately connected to this case this cold case because of a piece of paper or
00:38:42
some type of note that was found in his jail cell you're correct what happened is that authorities in Texas contacted
00:38:50
the detective at the time which is detective writer in Fort Smith and said I don't know if you're aware of who
00:38:57
Larry Swearingen is but we found a notebook in a Cell turnover and it had your name
00:39:04
um detective JC Ryder and it had Melissa witt's name and it had December 1st 1994
00:39:10
written down and that's really how Larry swearington came to the Forefront of the
00:39:15
minds of of Fort Smith police and that's when they started looking into Larry swearington and that's when it really
00:39:23
started becoming apparent that it's quite possible that he killed Melissa Witt that he could be involved and that
00:39:28
he had to be looked at closer all right so with the Melissa Wick case Larry would have been working in the area or
00:39:35
had family in this area well well he does have family in Arkansas they live in Clinton Arkansas which is you know
00:39:42
roughly a couple hours away from Fort Smith we do know that he was there in Clinton Arkansas just days before
00:39:49
Melissa Witt was killed because law enforcement was able to track down a receipt where he bought a car park in
00:39:56
Clinton Arkansas so we know it was in the area I know I can't put it back in Texas until mid-December late December
00:40:04
so he had plenty of time to kill Melissa West I believe it's quite possible that
00:40:12
he was working in the area and law enforcement did look at that angle however at the time and there was so
00:40:19
little to go on they didn't know that he was just a journeyman electrician they didn't realize that he would be working
00:40:26
under the license of Joe Martinez so when they did their search on anybody that had filled out a license or was
00:40:33
working in you know the greater Fort Smith area they looked under the name Larry
00:40:37
swearington and so we're trying to recreate that search now two decades later it's really
00:40:43
difficult if the records even exist but we know he was here we've got an ex-wife
00:40:49
that can place him here and she's pretty confident that he killed Melissa Witt but I we have to
00:40:55
have more than that before he could even be charged and that's something that we're looking at we've been in touch
00:41:00
with the retired detective one of the original detectives in the Trotter case who tells us that
00:41:06
they did find a receipt on Swearingen that that was in the from the Fort Smith area
00:41:15
in December of 94 that first week of December of 94 and they assure me they believe
00:41:22
that he killed Melissa Witt so I'm trying desperately to find that receipt are you able to say what one of the
00:41:29
Ex-Wives said to you regarding why she firmly believes that Larry killed Melissa Witt
00:41:37
um she has the suspicion for a couple of different reasons and and one is that he
00:41:43
was very abusive to her and he had actually violently raped her choked her until she
00:41:49
blacked out and dumped her in the woods he thought she was dead and so you know in her mind this is something he's very
00:41:55
capable of doing but also she at the time that they were together she found quite a few women's
00:42:03
IDs on him and he couldn't explain it he took him away from her and he dumped him
00:42:08
in the woods that does she remember if one of those belonged to Melissa Witt no but that
00:42:14
that really set off my radar have you been able to talk with Larry I have been several times
00:42:23
um he's not a fan of Ladonna Humphrey and I'm not a fan of Larry and he is actually had his legal team serve me
00:42:31
with I think I'm at my fourth season desist refuses to cooperate you know will not talk about Melissa Witt at all
00:42:39
not at all denies that he killed Melissa Trotter and in my last correspondence with him you know I just pointed out hey
00:42:46
you have family in Arkansas when they were interviewed they said that you used to camp and and hike in
00:42:53
that very area where Melissa's body was found is that true you know he doesn't respond you know I reminded both girls
00:43:00
were named Melissa they were the same age same kind of physical appearance you know both of their bodies were dumped in
00:43:07
a national forest 50 miles from the side of the abduction both girls were abducted in the same week exactly four
00:43:14
years apart if that doesn't you know ring a bell of a serial killer I don't know what does but what you know
00:43:21
both girls were strangled and then and this is the the Clincher for me Melissa Witt
00:43:27
had a watch stolen from her her murderer stolen it was a Mickey Mouse watch Melissa Trotter's watch was stolen from
00:43:36
her it was a Mickey Mouse watch her killer stole it that was my favorite part of the entire interview uh right
00:43:42
there and I'll tell you why because you have a Mickey Mouse watch if uh if anybody followed my good instruction
00:43:51
many many months ago and picked up one of our recommended reading books this was the uh called a good marriage by
00:43:59
Stephen King it's not a true story it's a fictional story nobody listens to you if anybody picked that up they know why
00:44:06
that I found that part so interesting when when she says and this is all hearsay by the way we have to throw that
00:44:12
in there because it's it's a telling from one person to another than to us we don't know if this is in fact true
00:44:18
here's a smear say the portion where she said that the wife one of his Ex-Wives of Larry found several driver's license
00:44:27
in their home from young women and when confronted about it he has no answer he confiscates them and then he
00:44:37
supposedly dumps them or or discards of them in the woods somewhere right that's exactly what happened in a good
00:44:45
marriage though the husband is away on work she's looking the wife is looking for something in the garage
00:44:51
and she comes across a little hidey hole and inside there's several driver's license of girls that had gone missing
00:45:00
in the surrounding states and it's exactly like a case that we covered which one it happened in an addict not
00:45:09
the garage and a dark past yeah that's right in the Attic Felix Vale case the yeah and uh I
00:45:17
think the people that were running off of him I believe found the box yeah they found some some old items of one of his
00:45:24
very likely victims the thing that we should we should you know I want to mention this because we are talking
00:45:30
about Stephen King we're talking about storytellers you know the the Mickey Mouse watch the two victims that
00:45:37
happened to be named Melissa they're the same age they're abducted in the same week four years apart some of that seems
00:45:46
a little storyteller-ish you know it seems a little icing on the cake I don't know that that a killer that's that's
00:45:54
attacking two women that he would have you know there's a very likely situation that if Larry did Kill both of these
00:46:03
melissas that he likely would not have known that's not why he killed them it's not
00:46:08
like he's driving around looking for the next Melissa I agree with you but we do
00:46:13
have um we do have evidence that he met the first Melissa if he met Melissa with his
00:46:20
second Melissa right it's a tricky story because he was convicted of of Melissa Trotter's case but that was actually
00:46:26
after uh Melissa wits right so we have evidence that he met Melissa trouter beforehand so I'm guessing that if if
00:46:35
this is a victim you know his Mo would kind of suggest that he would have met Melissa Witt prior to the the attack
00:46:43
possibly could have had some kind of interaction with her in advance but I think the thing that we're kind of
00:46:49
losing track of here in this story is what really is tying Larry Swearingen to this case
00:46:56
keep in mind her name is found written Melissa witt's name is found written in a notebook of his as well as you and I
00:47:04
were talking about this as well as the detective yeah slow down a little bit so he's he's in a different state he's in
00:47:11
another state this is like a decade later death row and they find I mean they find her name
00:47:18
and not just her name but the detective's name I mean I just keep going back to the fact that there's no
00:47:24
reason for him to have her name written on any of his property at all yeah it's pretty um that's pretty
00:47:33
mind-blowing so fill us in on the current state of Melissa witt's Case you know the case
00:47:39
is more active now than it has been in years and um you know we work daily with law
00:47:48
enforcement and you know I just talked to the you know the detective this morning and you know they allow us our
00:47:54
team to run a tip line and that tip line is pretty active and then we share that
00:47:59
information on immediately with law enforcement and you know they're they're following up on tips all
00:48:05
the time and I do believe it's just a matter of time right now my focus is excuse me you know solely on trying to
00:48:13
get Larry Swearingen ruled in or ruled out before he's executed once he's executed
00:48:21
we may never know all right and so that documentary uh might come out this spring but they're still
00:48:33
negotiating that so once we know something we'll let you know well and if you want to find out the release date
00:48:40
they will be making updates regarding that on the website which is who killed missywit.com or their Facebook page who
00:48:49
killed Missy Witt the thing that I'm interested in seeing here Captain is what more information can we find out in
00:48:55
the documentary because I think that even even though as forthcoming as Ladonna was and I so appreciate her time
00:49:03
with us and her keeping her efforts and all of her energy working on this cold case because I don't know if
00:49:12
there's the everybody picked up on this but during the course of that interview one thing that we learned is that
00:49:19
unfortunately both Melissa witt's parents have passed away since she was killed so they didn't get to see Justice
00:49:25
for their daughter and sometimes you wonder you know we cover a lot of these old cold cases sometimes you wonder that
00:49:33
when the relatives of these people start to pass away and once they start to fade
00:49:39
into memory does the case itself fall Fade Into memory as well is there anybody out
00:49:45
there working the case does anybody still care and it's great to see somebody like Ladonna focusing her
00:49:52
efforts on this old Cold Case working on a documentary we've seen movement on cases because of documentaries and
00:50:00
because of podcast so it's very interesting to see what's there I think I was trying to read between the lines
00:50:07
there I think there's some more information that that will be released when that documentary comes out and I
00:50:12
also want to include if anybody wants to has heard this case and has some information that they can offer you can
00:50:20
submit tips at the who killed missywitt.com website there's instructions there on how to do so or
00:50:26
there's a phone number that you can call to submit a tip and that's 479-221-9393 all right do we have any
00:50:34
recommended reading for the week we do this week we're recommending convenient suspect and the strange thing here
00:50:40
little coincidence tie into what we covered this week and last week it just so happened we had two cases back to
00:50:47
back we didn't plan this they happened to take place in December of 1994. we wanted to cover those well we did with
00:50:53
DeJuan Sims last week and then Melissa Witt this week well that inspired me to come up with this recommended reading
00:51:00
it's from a cold case from December back in 1994 that took place in Pennsylvania
00:51:06
and I shouldn't say a cold case because this one has been technically solved as far as the books are concerned but you
00:51:13
can tell by the title convenient suspect there's a lot of people out there that wonder if they have the right suspect so
00:51:19
if you're interested in this pick up convenient suspect a double murder a flawed investigation and the railroading
00:51:26
of an innocent woman and this is by Tammy Mull and you can find all of our recommended reading on our website
00:51:32
truecrimegarage.com and just click on the recommended page yeah and also at truecrime garage.com we have our blog
00:51:38
there as well as our store page so check all of that good stuff out all right everybody thank you for listening thank
00:51:45
you for telling a friend yeah thanks for sharing on social media be good be kind
00:51:50
and don't litter [Music] thank you [Applause] [Music]