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platform monday.com the first work platform you'll love to use [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
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you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always
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is a man who is actually seven but he looks much older he is the captain well my middle name is Benjamin it's good to
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be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are drinking Aztec death
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Whistle by tactical Brewing Company tactical is brewing up some amazing beers with equally amazing beer can
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artwork and this Imperial white Stout is delicious with an ABV of 9% garage grade
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4 and a half bottle caps out of five and cheers to our amazing garage Army specifically here's a shout out to
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and a huge thank you and cheers to Steven and beautiful Santa Barbara California and a big shout out to Carrie
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in Goodletsville Tennessee next up Captain we have Benjamin or as I like to say Benjamin in Parts Unknown most
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recently voted safest city in America by where it's at magazine and also in beautiful Parts Unknown we have Ashley
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and Michael Parts Unknown was also named the sexiest city in the whole universe well thanks to everyone that
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contributed to this week's beer fund the feeling FY reference comes from an old t-shirt that we put out after four after
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a four-part series titled boys on the tracks which came out back in March of 2017 episodes 9345 and 96 all of the old
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episodes are available for free on the free to download Stitcher app and all of our t-shirts and other merchandise are
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available on the store Page at true Crim garage.com and guess what that's enough
00:03:54
of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime let
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let's talk some true [Music] crime Captain we went through the case and much of the details of the case and
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covered it pretty well yesterday what I want want to get to today is we have several things way to give yourself a
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pat on the back oh you're welcome you know you're welcome world we really did a great job well there are several
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things that I want to get through today and get your opinion on and kind of dissect them a little bit because there
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are a lot of question marks in this case and this still unsolved case when we went through the details one thing that
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we were talking about is how fast the gunmen moved and all the actions that they took to get in there get whatever
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they were looking for or presumably get the cash that they were seeking out flee
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the area afterward one thing I've often wondered about this case were the gunmen
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waiting for 9:00 a.m. to make their way into the bowling alley we know that we have employees inside of the bowling
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alley and they're active and they're working at 8: a.m. but the bowling alley was not scheduled to open until 900 a.m.
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I wonder with the short amount of time and given how close we were to 9:00 a.m. were the gunman outside waiting for that
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9:00 hour to hit and as soon as those doors were to be unlocked make their way inside No I say I say nay I say these
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individuals knew what time the employees arrived and this crime happening in 1990 I would guess if this happened
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today what you could do simply is go back through through your surveillance footage for the last couple weeks cuz I
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believe these individuals would have been there would have been around that area would have been casing this bowling
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alley for quite some time to have this information yeah I think a couple of possibilities could be likely here and
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of course we there's no way to know for sure until we bust these guys until these guys are apprehended we may not
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know why they did what they did or exactly how they planned what they did but what I think think we see here is
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what we talked about yesterday it appears that they already decided on the plan because they're moving very fast
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Through the Motions to get back out and to flee the area the thing that I think that we we might be looking at some
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possibilities you know often when these businesses are hit a lot of times you want to hit them when they're closed
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because you don't want to have the added risk factor of additional people being inside the building customers so often
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what these offenders will do is they will hang around outside of a place and they will wait for things that will
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cause the doors to be open or unlocked you know deliveries or employees coming and going from the building to a car
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often what an offender or robber will do is wait for someone simply to take out the trash jump them stick a gun in their
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side out in the parking lot and walk back into the establishment with them take the money that they're looking for
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and then flee the area right I think we could have one of two things either yes maybe they were waiting for 9:00 a.m.
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seems like they arrived a little early to just be standing around a place that you're are going to eventually Rob right
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but if they were standing there waiting around to rob the joint maybe they saw Steve scac enter and then
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exit the building both times without having to use a key or locking the door behind him right and thought you know
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what as soon as this dude pulls away we're going to walk in to the place and take it over or maybe it was as simple
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as they were going to walk up and knock on the door and if the person opened up shove a gun in their face and work their
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way in to me if it if it were me trying to pull this thing off I would want to avoid that 9:00 a.m. when there could be
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additional people coming in in and out of the building with the customers and the doors being open and the business
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being in operation at that time well maybe not so much if it was a Monday or Tuesday but this is a Saturday this is
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going to be a lot busier of a day for the bowling alley that's why I think the level sophistication of these criminals
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is very high I would I'd even look into somebody that had some military background I'd also like to know if
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there was a set schedule of who open cuz we know that the daughter opened up so I'm assuming some days the daughter
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opened up and some days the father would open up or possibly her brother which again if you're two men with a gun it's
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less likely of a risk that somebody's going to fight back if they're female right or if they did fight back
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you have a better chance of controlling the situation so did these perpetrators know that there was a schedule there was
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a system and and that's again that would be little things that I think you could
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find out if they had the surveillence footage of this buling alley right and just to throw a little tidbit of
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information in there on what you were talking about one thing that's interesting is the owner
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he Ronald cak at the time he was living in the bowling alley but he was not there that weekend he was in I believe
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he was in Arizona on a golf trip that weekend well and think about this they're they're possibly are people that
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could connect these individuals to the owner or to the bowling alley or to other people that
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they knew but but they're dead so we we don't have that evidence again that would be more motive of why did they
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they didn't have to kill these individuals mhm but if you were connected to the owner or you're
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connected to the bowling alley if these people could identify you any way shape or form then that that's motive to get
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rid of all of them right and then speaking to that you know you have two suspects according to the survivors and
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what we know about the case and eyewitnesses and such the sus specs did not wear mask or gloves right when I
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look at this case I go why wouldn't you just put on a freaking mask and some gloves and go in there Rob The Joint
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make off with whatever money you can and not hurt anybody yeah but which eyewitnesses are saying that they didn't
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wear gloves the survivors in the bowling alley that were robbed and shot by these
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two [Music] guys and we also have Steve scac outside who says you know I didn't they weren't
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in mask or gloves when he saw them either well no I buy the fact that they're not again in mask cuz again
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maybe you know that these eyewitnesses are going to be able to identify you whether you're wearing a mask or not mhm
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the glove part doesn't make a lot of sense to me you'd think how militant they were that they would wear some
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protections because that's an identifying factor is your fingerprint well that also leads us back to a big
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question that we've been circling around for a portion of yesterday is could this
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have been some type of inside job okay if these guys either one of them had worked at this place before they would
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have been busted by now so nobody's speculating that you know because that's typically what you get with some of
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these robberies where it's a former employee and they know the daily routines and operations of that business
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right here what I mean is did we have somebody feeding them some kind of information because it does seem like
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you pointed out that the two gunmen knew some stuff about the Saturday operations
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of the bowling alley right it appears to me judging by what the set of events that we have during the commission of
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that robbery and the murders it appears to me based off what the survivors are saying and how things went down that
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these guys knew the general location of the employees well let me run something by you that kind of stuck out to me but
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maybe I'm crazy well we know I'm crazy but so we have a situation where we have the
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employees at the bowling alley they're all female until the brother shows up mhm so the brother shows up but then he
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leaves mhm I wonder if these individuals knew that all the all these women are going to come in to start the day and
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that we have a technician that's going to come in and he's male so once they see that this male
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entered the building now all the people that are going to be there before it opens are now in the building mhm so
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then they get out to start approaching the building and he comes walking out they go well now now this is a lot
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easier because we knew that technician coming in was male so there I'm guessing that these uh
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perpetrators believe that that was the technician but now he's leaving okay well that's easier for us let's walk in
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mhm why they didn't lock the door behind them I don't know but again I'm assuming
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that they believe that everybody was now in the building but they just saw that guy leave and drive off and then that's
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why they would have been surprised by the technician showing up yeah that's a good question why wouldn't they have
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just flipped the lock themselves but they but that's my belief is they they believe that uh the
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brother was the the the technician and he already left so we don't have to worry about him now well my other guess
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though too would be that you need a key regardless on what side of the door that
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you're on to lock the door because you don't want some jackass kid going out there and locking your door in the
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middle of business so um or some non jackass kid for that matter yeah he was just trying to be safe you're call
00:15:07
you're calling them names Sor I'm sorry po poor poor jackass kid but so the thing that really kind of upset me here
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was the the location of the employees right how quickly they move inside the gunman and then very quickly one of them
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knows to go into the kitchen immediately like they knew before they got in the building to expect an employee to be
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inside that kitchen working right and that's very troubling to me and and where I took that a step further and
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just really speculating and being suspicious of everyone was I was like [ __ ] man this Steve cak he provides a
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description of this really kind of weird story right he Des he describes the two
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gunmen or the people he believes could be the gunman mhm and then we never find these guys so I wondered for a while
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like was he somehow involved if this was an inside job did he pull up in the parking lot that day to one make sure
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that the guys that were hired by whomever were there and then he's like oh maybe he found the door locked went
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in grabbed his book bag and purposely left it unlocked on his way out then the he pulls off the gunmen make their way
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in I was very highly suspicious of the scac family and and Steve cak and the owner Ronald cak was he did he just
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happen to be out of town on the weekend that the murders took place or was he conveniently out of town yeah then we
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have the issue of Ida okay she was the one working in the kitchen she gives a description that is very similar to what
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Steve gave and she survived the attack from the inside and was shot several times I don't think that it's convenient
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I don't think that Steve put himself there to unlock the door for these gunmen I think that that whole horrible
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weird coincidence of the door being unlocked was just one of those weird freak things that took place and these
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gunmen were going to do whatever they set out to do anyway regardless of the the state of the lock on that door yeah
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well cuz if he would have just went out to his car again and just put his book bag back in his car and went back in
00:17:27
these these murderers they're coming in no matter what whether Steve's there or not mhm
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again I think they knew how many people were supposed to be there and whether they're whether or not they're supposed
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to be male or female well the thing too is let's say they did have some prior knowledge because if if they did have
00:17:50
prior knowledge they could have been working under the assumption that there was only
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going to be two employees there right we would have the manager the day manager would be there regardless their
00:18:04
duty is to open up the bowling alley for the day mhm it sounds to me like some form of kitchen employee or kitchen
00:18:12
staff member is going to be there on a busy Saturday prepping regardless if it's Ida a woman a man whomever so now
00:18:22
we got two people inside the building before nine I think where it gets a little
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iy if you did have some Intel about what would be going on that Saturday morning
00:18:36
is Ron scen act the owner being gone out of town that might be unforeseeable to whomever provided that
00:18:43
information also we have the two girls who were with Stephanie CAC in the office that morning I would bet you
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there's a good chance that these guys may not have anticipated one or both of those girls being there now we do know
00:19:01
that they were there to work that day they were going to run the daycare center at the bowling alley that day we
00:19:08
could also presume that if they expected to be out before the mechanic arrived his his shift may not have started till
00:19:17
9: maybe he shows up early that day I don't know but but the other thing is we they wouldn't anticipate him showing up
00:19:24
with two daughters with him they're not scheduled to work obviously they're little kids right so they might have
00:19:31
been surprised by how many people were at the bowling alley I think that they were I mean this is seven victims here
00:19:37
no no I think they were surprised by the technician but again the the other thing
00:19:42
that hurts us in this case is it's 1990 it's a bowling alley most of the transactions at that time would have
00:19:48
been cash cash money you know I used to go bowling all the time couple times a week and it was cash right and most
00:19:55
people would use cash in 1990 these these individuals they I believe wholeheartedly they knew all the ins and
00:20:03
outs they knew this was going to take them 10 to 15 minutes and we just have to be very um a matter of fact about it
00:20:12
and I think they were surprised by the technician and the fact that he brought his two daughters because because they
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knew that there was a technician I just believe they they thought Steve was the technician these individuals probably
00:20:24
went bowling the Saturday the before so they would have known also that there was a daycare open but were they
00:20:32
expecting for there to be two children with the technician I think they were surprised by that yeah and that but see
00:20:40
that's the terrifying thing to me is that I don't feel like I can't look at anything in this case and go okay that's
00:20:48
the thing that set these guys off and then they decided to shoot all these people oh that was premeditated right
00:20:54
it's like they went in there going no matter what happens we're shooting them yeah you know like we we covered the
00:21:01
Lane Bryant case and you can point to oh the the perpetrator of that caught somebody on the phone with 911 we don't
00:21:10
know for certain if that shooter would have shot them or not but what we do know is there was a 911 call that took
00:21:17
place and then the shooting started right we have no situation like that in this case and we also don't have any
00:21:24
eyewitnesses or any survivors saying that there was any discussion right these these guys there's no old two guys
00:21:31
huddled in the corner going now what do we do there's seven people and that's what I'm saying this is this is a level
00:21:36
of sophistication these these guys aren't dummies that's also another reason why
00:21:42
the case is not solved these guys aren't dummies they knew like I said it's step by step by
00:21:49
step right and it didn't matter that now you have again I think um less level of sophistic
00:21:58
ation less like again military MH somebody that has killed before once those children are involved that's a
00:22:07
whole another level but as as far as sick and and twisted and level of piece of [ __ ] that you have to be so that's
00:22:17
another level but they didn't hesitate oh now there's children here get in the office by the way we're shooting you all
00:22:24
and we're setting the goddamn place on fire and they're setting the office on fire not the whole building they're
00:22:30
we're we're our the purpose of the fire is to get rid of the evidence and the eyewitnesses yeah yeah to get get rid of
00:22:37
the evidence of the men being in that office and to to confuse and convolute the whole me already me messy situation
00:22:47
and the thing that drives me nuts is this seems so familiar on so many levels to like the yogurt shop
00:22:56
murders again a situ where we have all female workers we're going to we're going to get into that bit of it here in
00:23:04
a minute and I'm glad that you brought that up but one thing I want to make sure that I point out before we move on
00:23:10
too far and I forget about it is Ida one of our survivors the the lady working in
00:23:15
the kitchen that morning she says and there are a couple other people too and I couldn't find people by name you know
00:23:22
reference by name having said this but what I found was Ida and others have said this
00:23:29
that they think that they have seen these two men in the bowling alley before and that they weren't their
00:23:38
bowling they weren't their shooting pool they weren't really interacting with anybody they were just kind of sitting
00:23:46
there looking around now that would explain some of the things because you don't have to have Insider information
00:23:53
from somebody that works there owns the place or previously worked there to to get an idea of the daily operations
00:24:01
right you can you can go in there and you can sit around and you can go you know what all right I see employees
00:24:07
coming in and out of this room over here at this location that must be like some
00:24:11
kind of office or something oh and over there by the bar or by the tables I see employees coming in and out of that room
00:24:18
that must be a kitchen oh we got this huge bowling alley 32 lanes and that's really where I see the majority of the
00:24:25
workers congregating right those are our two places to be concerned with once we
00:24:30
come in here when there's no customers right and it's just like the guitar store I used to work at like we opened
00:24:37
up every day at 10:00 M so all you have to do is show up a couple times when we open but chances are you would have seen
00:24:46
if you got there 10 minutes early the lights didn't even turn on till 5 minutes before we open mhm meaning these
00:24:53
employees haven't been there for the last hour sitting in the dark so if you're going to rob a place like
00:25:00
that you you wait till it opens at 10:00 and you also know that there's not a bunch of customers at 10:00 especially
00:25:07
like on a Monday or Tuesday but in this case they're there 45 minutes roughly 45 minutes to 30 minutes
00:25:17
earlier than the doors were supposed to open so I mean this is this is again maybe it's not that they're getting
00:25:26
their uh Intel from Insider Scoops but it's them casing The Joint right and you know what you could case The Joint to
00:25:35
figure out where the employees are spending most of their time to to have areas to focus on once you enter the
00:25:42
building you don't have to even go in on a Friday night to know that they're busy
00:25:46
you can drive by the parking lot and see how many cars are in the thing to know that hey they're busy they make a lot of
00:25:53
money on Friday nights now the difficult thing here is to know that the money that the cash from the night before is
00:26:01
going to be in the building the morning after that's the difficult thing because
00:26:06
not every business operates that way some businesses do night deposits after the business closes you could follow
00:26:16
employees after a Friday night shift and go all right not a single one of them went to the bank so they're not
00:26:23
depositing the money but that makes it more difficult when the owner lives at the balloon Al right that I don't know
00:26:30
if there would be any way for them to know that mhm unless they were a former employee correct and again I I really
00:26:37
believe if they were former employees this case would be solved yeah unless there was something that the owner did
00:26:44
that these guys had something on him and and this was like a way of them showing
00:26:49
him hey we're we're serious guys that you don't want to mess with yeah but they shot his granddaughter and his
00:26:56
daughter and his daughter even though she survived years later she died from the injuries from that attack yeah so
00:27:04
it's like I I mean what do you have on the guy that that he doesn't go screw it I don't care what these guys have on me
00:27:12
I'm telling the cops everything I know because they they they tried to kill my family yeah and they killed little kids
00:27:19
of people that I know so it you know I I don't really and look here's here's the
00:27:24
thing Ronald cak and there's people out there that know this case really well and they're going to go Ronald cak a
00:27:30
suspicious dude he's look he's not a likable guy I'm not going to sit here and pretend like he's a likable guy he's
00:27:36
your favorite and you know we have people that in interviews say he's not a likable guy the police didn't like him
00:27:43
the police said you know this guy was out talking to everybody after the after the case took place after the shootings
00:27:49
took place he's out telling them stuff that isn't true they looked into Ron CAC and whether you like the guy or not at
00:27:56
the end of the day what we have as we have detectives saying we looked at this dude super hardcore we put him under a
00:28:03
microscope looked at every aspect of his business dealings in his life yeah we spread his cheeks we looked inside and
00:28:10
we couldn't find any illegal activity you know the guy was not a smart businessman he had a successful bowling
00:28:18
alley that he ended up losing it in an auction in a court ordered auction I believe less than a year or maybe one
00:28:25
full year after the shooting but he was not a smart business guy he was not a likable guy but if I really
00:28:32
believe dude if he was anyhow involved in this or looking for some kind of insurance scam or whatever that I think
00:28:41
they would have found this cuz they really honed in on him something pretty good
00:28:46
[Music] hey this is Jeff Lewis from Radio Andy live and uncensored catch me talking
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00:31:46
looking at this picture of the suspects mhm these these uh composite drawings and just thinking Sharman Sharman
00:31:55
[Laughter] charman all right Captain well I want to discuss how did these two suspects make
00:32:02
such a clean getaway they were basically undetected yes they were seen fleeing on
00:32:07
foot by one person but I've often wondered were they running to a vehicle or were they running to a nearby house
00:32:17
or building to kind of hide out for a little bit one thing that we talked about when we discussed the I5
00:32:26
killer and it's weird to go into the story and say I5 killer but for those that don't know the story the I5 killer
00:32:33
was also a robber and he was very experienced robber and in fact sometimes he would go in and rob a place and not
00:32:40
kill anybody but one thing that he learned along the way in his robbery career was that a vehicle is a really
00:32:50
good way to get detected to get identified and get picked up and arrested for these robberies and in his
00:32:57
case The Killing so he learned very early on that it was not wise for him to park his vehicle
00:33:04
near the place he was robbing so he would often park it blocks and blocks away because this dude was pretty
00:33:11
athletic the I5 killer he would Rob the place sometimes kill the person and then
00:33:16
he would flee on foot and then get to his vehicle and then drive off I thought maybe that might be what these dudes
00:33:24
were doing maybe they want to flee on foot and then make a a dash for the Border but then we we have a very big
00:33:32
difference between these two different people the the I5 killer and the unknown gunman at Las
00:33:39
Cruses the I5 killer was wearing a mask and gloves when he committed his crimes so he did not want to be detected or
00:33:48
identified where the Los cruus gunman they're not wearing mask or gloves then you have to take it a step
00:33:55
further and go well how much do they really care if their vehicle is spotted right but see again that almost makes me
00:34:03
think maybe they didn't have a vehicle to to run to right but I I also wonder if my theory is correct that these guys
00:34:10
case the joint for a while that they would have thought the brother was the technician and that got and then maybe
00:34:19
thinking that the technician doesn't show up everybody else shows up around 8:00 technician shows up about 8:30
00:34:27
well we have an individual showing up in between that time so he would have been
00:34:33
early if he was the technician did that startle them so they weren't able to put
00:34:38
on their mask or their gloves they went oh there's a technician we got to go Oh you mean for the purpose of fleeing no I
00:34:47
mean that they startled them at the beginning so before they entered the building they didn't put on their mask
00:34:53
or gloves yeah I I don't know um I would think if they brought mask and gloves with them they would have put them on
00:35:00
regardless of the situation we do have a a statement by the LCPD they have stated in the past
00:35:08
and this is pure speculation on their part as well that they believe that the two gunmen may have had some type of
00:35:15
help that someone may have sheltered the two of them shortly after so they could
00:35:20
lay low and then maybe flee the area at another time I have a hard time believing that they just kind of hung
00:35:27
around Los crues for the next 30 years because as said their pictures were plastered everywhere and we have Steve
00:35:35
Cenac saying that is exactly what you drew looks exactly like the two guys that I saw and then we have Ida backing
00:35:43
that up we have the other witness that says hey people that look like that I saw them running from the area what's
00:35:49
interesting is that kind of plays a part into this next portion where a woman named Irma
00:35:56
Tarina comes forward at some point and says hey I think that the two gunmen were
00:36:02
staying with me when they committed the crimes she says that there were two guys
00:36:08
and I believe they were involved in some kind of illegal drug activity at the time that were staying with her and when
00:36:17
the helicopters were flying around looking for the two gunmen who fled the bowling alley she says one of them said
00:36:24
to the other one we're right under their noses and they don't even know it this is a little weird this is a really weird
00:36:31
portion of the story for me Captain because this Irma this herma Arena she passes a polygraph but at some point the
00:36:39
police like she recants her statement saying that she was just looking to I'm a little confused by her
00:36:47
statement it it implied that she was looking for a way to score some drugs I don't know if that meant that she was
00:36:55
looking to provide false information to the police and hoping to collect some of
00:36:59
the reward money but the short of it is she had her demons she was uh involved with drugs and it seems like quite a bit
00:37:10
especially around this time I have in my notes here that she passed away in 2001
00:37:15
from a drug overdose what I do know is that at some point the police seem to be not interested in talking to this woman
00:37:22
anymore yeah it could be I mean we've seen this in a lot of cases where somebody comes for with supposed
00:37:29
information and then you find out nobody was even staying with her these guys didn't even exist they just existed in
00:37:35
our head or some of the things that she's telling them they were probably able to prove were not true right and so
00:37:42
they're like well we we can't uh we can't let her steer our investigation because it's uh
00:37:49
nonsense one of the things though too that is often mentioned in this case is that the locals the local rumor always
00:37:57
seems to have been that the there were drugs involved or suspected drugs involved in this case and then
00:38:06
eventually the two gunmen fled to Mexico and I think there could be some truth to both of those portions of the
00:38:13
story but a lot of that I think stems from the idea that Ida says that she believes from the gunman's actions that
00:38:23
they were looking for something else in the office that day not just the money in the
00:38:28
safe and the way that this portion of the story goes down is that once they're aware of where the safe is or they have
00:38:35
access to the safe that they still continued to look through filing cabinet drawers and desk drawers like they were
00:38:42
all they were looking for something else not just the money in the safe well again this kind of goes to the idea of
00:38:49
what if the owner was doing something shady and these guys were like Hey we're going to come collect from you he
00:38:56
happens then be out of town and then these guys again looking they get the money because maybe the
00:39:04
owner ow the money and maybe or maybe he was going to traffic some drugs for them
00:39:10
and so the drugs are gone but he's never paid them the money so they go in there
00:39:15
steal the money look for any extra drugs or these guys just hear a rumor a bad rumor that's not true that the place is
00:39:24
full of drugs right I mean that that does happen a lot I mean we got the the whole
00:39:30
clutter family was murdered because they thought $10,000 was somewhere in that house and there was no money in that
00:39:36
house yeah or they're looking for money but they're looking for something else that of value that isn't drugs but again
00:39:45
a rumor by somebody well that's where I bring in RJ CAC he's another son of Ron cck and he's a known drug user in fact
00:39:55
he passed away from a drug overdose as well and I believe this was in 1997 or 1999 seems to stick out but it was in
00:40:07
the late 90s he was a known drug user and I believe he was he was known to have maybe even dealt drugs he worked at the
00:40:17
bowling alley in some form or fashion most Reports say state that he was a bartender now obviously he was not
00:40:23
working on that day on that Saturday when the place was robbed and these poor people were
00:40:28
shot but then you have to take it a step further is that does that become the Genesis of this bad rumor or is RJ out
00:40:37
there telling people on the streets stuff that's not true or was he did somebody know that he was actually
00:40:43
running drugs out of there selling drugs at the bar and then they go in there looking for said drugs and this money
00:40:51
from the safe then I want to go to what you referenced earlier here Captain the Austin yogurt shop murders we covered
00:41:00
those in episodes 81 and 82 in 2017 when we covered this I was amazed at how many people told me they have
00:41:08
always wondered if these two cases these two absolutely horrific crimes if they were possibly
00:41:16
connected the yogurt shop murders is an open homicide case in Austin Texas this took place on a Friday December 6th 1991
00:41:25
so less than 2 years later a very similar crime and what do I mean by similar crime at a yogurt shop in Austin
00:41:33
Texas the store was robbed the girls there were four of them present were brutally attacked and the building was
00:41:40
set on fire afterwards all four killed again it's a no one spared situation one of the big difference though was they
00:41:48
were robbed at night right and this was robbed and morning correct and we also have the I mean they they were subjected
00:41:58
to rape and all kinds of attacks yeah where the Los crues situation is much different where the guys the robbers
00:42:07
killers were in and out rather quickly but wasn't there a eyewitness that saw some guys in the yogurt shop earlier
00:42:16
that night that possibly had Army fatigues or well that's the thing we really did our best to try to lock in on
00:42:25
two very who Who We Believe might have been the suspects and they were two individuals that were spotted in the
00:42:31
yogurt shop just before closing time that have never been identified everybody else that entered the yogurt
00:42:36
shop that night as far as we know that were seen by other customers have been identified to this date except for these
00:42:43
two guys the description of these two guys would make them significantly younger than both of our suspects here
00:42:51
in Los crues mhm and this case took place as said after l crues so that doesn't really
00:42:59
track but one thing I wanted to look at real quick was the hold back information
00:43:03
now what is hold back information hold back information is what the police will hold back so that the public doesn't
00:43:10
know about this in case they get false confessions or if they get people that they think are serious suspects
00:43:16
information that they can try to pull out of them to make them even stronger suspects things that only the
00:43:22
perpetrators would know about the crime and the yogurt shop they held back 13 bits of information now we know what
00:43:31
this is because eventually this did go to trial that whole thing is a mess long story short it's still an unsolved case
00:43:38
but let's go through this real quick because I wanted to compare it to Los crues here are the items that they held
00:43:45
back at the yogurt shop one how and where the fire was started well we know that in Los Cruz's Bowl the key to the
00:43:52
front door that's interesting because I would think that the detective would want to have held back the
00:43:59
information that the gunman found the door unlocked at the bowling alley mhm that wouldn't have been people in the
00:44:06
public wouldn't expect the door to be unlocked it was closed the business wasn't open yet right how much money was
00:44:12
taken I think that what we have here at Los crues that they have held that information back all the reports State
00:44:18
4,000 or 5,000 or somewhere between $4 and $5,000 was stolen from Los Cruz I'm guessing that they're getting that
00:44:27
number from what they think the business probably would have made the night before but we have no way of knowing how
00:44:35
much business how much cash the business left on hand or how much cash that the owner stored of his own cash in in the S
00:44:46
safe because that's where he was living well we have the day manager there there
00:44:51
doing the books had she already gone through everything from the night before and counted all the money right they
00:44:57
would know how much was missing now the rumor has always been that they didn't take all of the money and which has
00:45:04
always been weird because sometimes it's reported that they left some of the money in the safe they didn't take all
00:45:08
the money from the safe or they didn't take all the money from the bowling alley which again maybe they already
00:45:14
loaded one of the registers and they just didn't check the register before they left mhm regarding all of the money
00:45:21
and the safe one thing I've always wondered about that Captain because people will point out well that is proof
00:45:27
that they were looking for something else I do believe they were looking for something else I don't think if they
00:45:31
left money in the safe it's proof of such especially if the one portion of the story is true where the girls where
00:45:39
they put the victims in charge of loading up the briefcases may maybe just out of fear or Panic they forgot one of
00:45:46
the areas that there was Cash yeah exactly or they were St startled by Steven teron who came in unexpectedly
00:45:54
yeah possibly or it's a situation I mean look I know it's Hollywood but you watch
00:45:59
the town you watch Point Break sometimes those guys have timers after this timer goes off now we're
00:46:07
moving on to the next thing no matter where we're at and in the process right there are several items on this list of
00:46:15
13 that may not pertain to what we have here at Las crusis a lot of the hold back information at yogurt
00:46:24
shop had to do with the binding that were used to tie up the girls and also some of the injuries sustained to
00:46:33
the victims but we don't have as far as we know the victims here weren't tied up
00:46:41
and it doesn't appear that they Unleashed any kind of violence on these victims before shooting them so that may
00:46:48
not have any relevance in this case unless they did and that is part of the hold back information in Los cruus but
00:46:56
we also have one interesting thing here there were two different caliber of guns
00:47:02
used in yogurt shop and it's believed that there were two guns used in Las Cruz's Bowl as well we have reports that
00:47:10
one of them was likely a 22 but never any reports of the other caliber of guns so maybe that's a portion that has been
00:47:19
held back there's also a couple of references here out of the 13 items in Austin yogurt shop
00:47:27
of additional items that was taken from the shop that that was not money so you have to wonder was there anything else
00:47:37
taken from the bowling alley that has been held back from the general public well as fascinating as I
00:47:46
find this case and as fascinating as I find the Austin yogurt shop murders and if you haven't listened to those
00:47:54
episodes you should check those out I really think it's that there's a control here in this one
00:48:02
and is it possible that these individuals robbed multiple places and started losing control as they went on
00:48:11
cuz this happened in the in 1990 yogurt shop I believe was 91 so did they lose control as they went
00:48:21
um I I just I I view them as different things I really feel like the yogurt shop murders it was a lot more chaotic
00:48:30
perpetrated by different kind of monsters yeah with with different agendas but that doesn't mean that but
00:48:37
to me somebody that has this much control is capable of doing this time and time again without almost any fear
00:48:47
of being caught yeah so one article that I found that I thought was really intriguing Captain this was from the
00:48:55
Associated Press in December of 1990 in fact it was December 19th of 1990 where they were talking to Fred Rubio he's the
00:49:05
Los Cruz's police captain the head of the Department's detectives at the time and he's talking about you know hey I
00:49:13
would hate to leave this profession without being here when they solve this I love the optimism of when they solve
00:49:20
this and he says this case still haunts us now at this time we're talking it's only 10 months old but he says we're not
00:49:29
used to having Unsolved Mysteries here in this city and that is intriguing because not only is he referencing that
00:49:38
hey the case was covered on Unsolved Mysteries but remember in 1989 they only had two
00:49:46
homicides and I didn't go through the entire year of 1990 to figure out how many homicides Los Cruses had in that
00:49:53
entire year but what I did find was two interesting things by February 16th of 1990 Los cruus the city of Los cruus had
00:50:04
seven homicides by February 16th where the year before two for the entire year now of course we know that four
00:50:13
unfortunately four died on February 10th of 1990 right that leaves three other homicides we actually mentioned one of
00:50:21
the other ones earlier in our coverage of this case there was a man that was stabbed and he was found at 23 in the
00:50:27
afternoon the same day as the shootings they solved that they found the guy that
00:50:32
did that so there's one that's down there was a stabbing that took place on February
00:50:38
16th where unfortunately a victim died they located the perpetrator of that murder very quickly and apprehended them
00:50:47
what we have here is almost at the end of 1990 on the 19th of December Fred Rubio says
00:50:57
we only have two homicide cases for the entire year of 1990 that remain unsolved that is the Los cruus bowling
00:51:06
alley Massacre and a gas station robbery that took place in January well what's that case called all right Captain let
00:51:16
me run this by you and you let me know your feelings here this is from an old Crim Stoppers article it says that they
00:51:24
are looking for information leading to the arrest and prosecution of the persons involved in the Robbery Homicide
00:51:33
that occurred on January 14th 1990 at Ray's Shell station located at 2417 West Picacho in Los Cruses the Los Cruses
00:51:48
Police Department was called to the scene at approximately 10:04 a.m. where they found the attendant Salvador Zano
00:51:57
lying face down in the office area further investigation revealed that the victim had been shot one time in the
00:52:05
back of the head the victim's hands were tied behind his back the caliber or type
00:52:11
of firearm used has not yet been determined investigators believe there was more than one person involved in
00:52:18
this robbery murder investigating officers have been able to determine that a robbery did take place prior to
00:52:26
the victim being shot and I'm going to go off of article here for a second I did some further snooping and found that
00:52:33
it's believed that a approximately $500 was stolen from the gas station before this man was murdered and then they go
00:52:41
on to say anyone with information please call the Crim Stoppers or call the New Mexico State uh police so what I'm going
00:52:52
where I'm getting at here Captain is that 30 years ago these two crimes took place less than a
00:52:59
month apart in time the distance between these two businesses both located in Los
00:53:05
crues is 3.2 miles from one another they both took place on a weekend day in the
00:53:13
morning this was on a Sunday at 10:00 a.m. well they found the victim at 10: a.m. this could have taken place at 8:30
00:53:22
or 9:00 a.m. but we have LA Los Cruz's bowl that took place on a Saturday and we know that the murders were committed
00:53:30
before 8:30 on that day there seems to be a lot of similarities here where they're shooting unnecessarily shooting
00:53:39
the person who is attending the business that they are robbing shot in the back of the head more than one offender both
00:53:46
still unsolved after 30 years not just the two unsolved homicide cases from 1990 well definitely some very
00:53:56
interesting similarities in those cases you almost have to wonder if either police have reason to believe that
00:54:05
they're not connected proof that they're not connected and we just don't know about
00:54:09
this or is this a situation where the gas station was not that big of a score $500 roughly and you have to wonder
00:54:20
where they looking for a much bigger score and thought that Los Cruz's Bowl could be what they were after not just
00:54:27
the money in the safe but maybe some kind of drugs or a large quantity of Narcotics are on scene as well and then
00:54:37
this horrific crime multiple murders on the same day and now it's just too the the heat has been turned up they got to
00:54:45
get out of Dodge it's it's a tricky situation because you want both of these crimes to be solved and then you sit
00:54:53
here and wonder is it the same perpetrators and that's why neither of them have been solved for 30 years
00:55:00
mhm well again with the evidence being destroyed with the fire mhm these individuals what we do know is how
00:55:10
vicious they are and you would think they're so vicious over even such small amounts of
00:55:18
money that they would eventually get caught yeah you yes or end yeah end up in prison for some other offense or even
00:55:27
some other murder mhm we do have some new information that came out recently and this is very interesting and I and I
00:55:36
hope and pray that this goes somewhere somehow because we still have people that are hurting very bad and here's the
00:55:45
other thing you got to keep in mind too when we talk about there is no real closure in these cases and that is
00:55:53
absolutely true and victims and family members of victims will tell you there is no real closure in these cases but
00:56:02
one thing that I think's important to bring up here when you have a situation like this where you have multiple people
00:56:10
multiple victims some of them did not survived that day mhm and some of them did unfortunately the ones that were
00:56:18
lucky enough if you want to call it that lucky enough to survive that day they live in fear for the rest of their lives
00:56:27
because they know that these two gunmen are still out there somewhere or could be out there yeah could be out there
00:56:34
somewhere so when we talk about no real closure that might be some pretty significant form of closure for our
00:56:42
surviving victims well we hear a lot that that the family deserves answers and answers doesn't always mean closure
00:56:51
but answers are important knowing what happened and why it happened mhm is important even if they're never going to
00:56:59
get closure yeah because you can't bring people back and that's the that's the sad sad truth but we've had the
00:57:07
30-year anniversary I guess if you want to call it that it's been 30 years since
00:57:12
these murders took place and that was of course in February of 2020 and we wanted
00:57:18
to cover this ideally we would have covered this right around the anniversary but we were busy doing our
00:57:24
Shaker Heights project at that time and it couldn't couldn't be put off any longer so here we are now captain and
00:57:31
I'm kind of glad that we waited a little bit because we wouldn't had this little
00:57:35
tidbit of information had we done this case back in February so what happened was on the 30y year marker we have Los
00:57:44
Cruz's Crime Stoppers upped the reward for information on the ID of the possible suspects this is to
00:57:54
$30,000 and around the same time we have ABC7 anchor her name is Stephanie Vil she said that around the 30-year
00:58:06
anniversary she received a call from a woman originally from Los cruus who gave her the name of a
00:58:13
man the tipster is certain is the younger of the two attackers the younger gunman right she claims that his family
00:58:24
knew or had a decent idea that he committed the crime but remained quiet about it all of these years this man
00:58:33
that she is implicating killed himself in 1997 we will see if this comes to be what comes of this information I'm sure
00:58:45
we'll find out here hopefully sooner rather than later the Los cruus Police Department still urges anyone with any
00:58:55
kind of information at all no matter how seemingly insignificant to please please call Crim
00:59:03
Stoppers at 1 800222 [Music] 8477 thanks for listening thanks for joining us in the garage
00:59:26
do we have any recommended reading this week Captain I am very excited to recommend to the good garage people an
00:59:35
incredible book this is one of if not the best True Crime book of 2020 so far the book is called the Garden State
00:59:44
Parkway murders a Cold Case Mystery by Christian bar the Garden State Parkway murders is the true story of two College
00:59:53
friends who were brutally knifed to death and their bodies left off the parkway the author identifies several
01:00:00
suspects including Infamous serial killers Ted Bundy and Gerald stano this wonderful book is the result of nine
01:00:08
years of nose to the Grind investigative research and it's out of wild blue press
01:00:14
a premier publisher of True Crime books so you know it's good check out the Garden State Parkway murders and other
01:00:22
titles on our recommended page at True Crime garage .c yeah and with the holiday next week we will be off we have
01:00:31
we'll still have off the Record but we have something very exciting for you so make sure you're following us on Twitter
01:00:42
or Instagram or Facebook because next week there'll be some very exciting things happening with the garage we are
01:00:51
going to be hot and heavy as they say h the hot tub if you're not following True
01:00:57
Crime garage make sure you get that started today you don't want to miss out on next week everybody have a great safe
01:01:04
and wonderful 4th of July until next time be good be kind and don't litter [Music]
01:01:21
[Applause] [Music] [Music] hey friends Ted dancing here and I want to let you know about my new podcast
01:01:53
it's called where everybody knows your name with me Ted Danson and Woody harelson sometimes doing this podcast is
01:02:00
a chance for me and my good bud Woody to reconnect after cheers wrapped 30 years
01:02:05
ago plus we're introducing each other to the friends we've met since like Jane Fonda Conan O'Brien Eric Andre Mary
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so why wait listen to where everybody knows your name wherever you get your podcasts
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