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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] Daniel Sun Daniel Daniel Sun did we do that last time yeah I think I'm just
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going to do every every week it's later than I thought so we must be having fun so here's a couple of uh emails that
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I wanted to go through real quick hate mail this wasn't hate mail um unless I'm missing something here but these are in
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regards to the Rollins Rodeo murders that we covered a couple weeks ago this first one is from someone that
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says I learned about your podcast on Facebook this is someone who grew up in Rollins
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Wyoming and says that her mother also grew up in Rollins and she knew carlen Brown she was one of the victims I think
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I got a message maybe on Instagram or maybe it was on Facebook about this she says that uh her mother and carlen were
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the same age and grew up together uh she says she grew up hearing the story that
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my mom was invited to the fair that day with carlen but she was newly married and pregnant with her the person writing
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this email at the time so she declined to go with carlen brown which we both know that carlen brown and her friend
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were at some point come across a a bad person right and um we end up finding the body of one
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of the victims so much longer so many years later but carlen Brown has never really been accounted for now she says
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that I heard other stor about carlen while I was growing up she was kind of a quote Wild Child and my mom said she was
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gone a couple of weeks before anyone tried very hard to look for her because it was not out of character for her to
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run off from her dad's house in Rollins to her mom's in Colorado Springs when she was upset with one parent or another
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I think we talked about that a little bit when we covered it right uh the author of this email says she's never
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heard of this dude Royal Russell long who you and I believe are probably is probably responsible for several of
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these abduction and murders um says that I I don't think that news of his other crimes and arrest ever made the
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rounds and Rollins but cannot say for sure she goes on to say that um my mom never knew the girl that was
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with carlen when they disappeared and whose remains were found that seemed seems odd to me since it was such a
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small town and my mom was invited to go along that day so they should have all been from the same Social Circle you
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know it was an extremely small town and she's saying my mom doesn't know who this other person is possibly but then
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if she is a quote unquote wild child then is she meeting somebody there did they become friends at the event did
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they go together or did this other friend go in place of of uh someone who was already invited that could not go
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right and then they say my husband grew up in Rollins as well when he was in second or third grade it would have been
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1979 or 1980 one of his classmates was abducted and murdered her name was Renee Davidson if you want to look it up
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during those years when we were in elementary school I remember we were all afraid of a man named
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deina we were generally suspicious of anyone who drove a van she says I think his name was probably more like dapena
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or deapen something like that ashb the van I don't know if he was a known suspect or a known serial killer or what
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perhaps it was discovered he killed Renee and everyone knew it right later when we were in high school in the late
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' 80s early 90s another one of my husband's classmates was abducted and murdered her name was Lisa Marie
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Peterson she says telling you all of this now makes me realize that's a lot of girls
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murdered from one tiny little town right also I have to say having lived in Rollins for 30 years and being third
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generation born here I was a little annoyed that you were annoyed at the information you couldn't get a hold of
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to piece together your stories especially in part one you sort of painted the locals out to be inept at
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investigation but that was a different time too bad you didn't ever get to come to Wyoming to get a real feel for the
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little towns because you make a lot of assumptions to fill in the gaps you suggested that the newspaper could have
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buried some of the news about the other little Montana girl being killed but I highly doubt it in a small town where
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everyone knows everyone's business that said it happened only one month after carene and my mom has no recollection of
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her name or event so that's interesting because I do agree with the the person that sent this email and I won't give
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out her name but I do agree with her I I can get how I may have come across a little accusatory about the town or
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whatever regarding that there was no information on Deborah Meyer was her name when do you not come off like a
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dick well I did respond to her and I and I you know I simply stated that Deborah
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Meyer thing not only did it annoy me but it it annoyed me to the point where I thought something very suspicious was
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going on there something very fishy and what I mean by that is look I'm pretty good at doing the
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research on some of these cases humble brag there right but yeah it if if there's a missing person a believe to be
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murdered child that happened in the US within the last 50 years if you can't find a decent amount of information
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about it or at least more than what we found in Deborah Meyer situation that it just seems very
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strange and F fishy to me I mean years ago we covered Tony Muny and that was a Columbus case here and one reason why we
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were passionate about covering that case was because there was so little internet
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information about Tony mun's case right but again you're in Columbus so you can do more digging and then you find hey
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there's a bunch of stuff just not on the internet and kind of like what I said when we're covering the
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case chances are there is a bunch of information they probably cover the story multiple times they just never
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transferred that information onto the internet yeah and the thing with Tony mzy is as little as there was about his
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case on the internet at the time when we covered it there was still quite a bit more than what was found what we were
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able to find on Deborah Meyers case um the little girl from Montana and and I mean that was just surprising to me if
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you I you know everyone out there if you want to check into it I'm just going to
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go ahead and tell you as much as I could find was basically a paragraph that was
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on multiple websites and it's pretty much the same paragraph there's no additional information when you go from
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one website to the other and the other thing too was It was kind of listed in my opinion as an old by the way case
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because a lot of times where I would find information about Deborah Meyer there would it would be from
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looking into the other possible victims uh when we discussed the Rollins Rodeo murders but to to my credit and to to
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kind of back up my statement that we gave in part one there she says look I my mom grew up with these people and I
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told her the name of that Montana girl who went missing that you you know that I was complaining about and she says my
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mom doesn't remember that name nor does she even remember hearing about that um abduction or the girl going missing yeah
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but it's kind of weird though because especially in that small town it's going to be kind of like the Kennedy
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assassination where were you when kind of like here for at least Rock Fans or metal fans it's kind of like you you
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remember where you were or what you were supposed to be doing the night that dimeback Daryl was killed at the our
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Rosa Villa you know what I mean like this this lady has a story of my mother was supposed to go right oh now it's a
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little different because my mother was supposed to go with this girl that went missing but I'm
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sure uh with your friends you know one of my friends contacted me or maybe it was like two days before it was like Hey
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dbag Daryl's playing at the alosa mhm and I was like with who damage plan don't know if I go right but then
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my buddy's like yeah but St back Daryl at least we get to say that we saw him you know in person in concert and we're
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like okay maybe and it just he never called and then like when the shooting hit the news waves uh he calls
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and says hey um we we almost went there I'm like yeah we did so it kind of reminded me of that anyways at Le at
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least that sparked in my mind so that's the where were you when that happened you you know in reference to Dimebag
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being killed where were you I didn't go to the show thankfully lucky enough to not have gone to the
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show I was kind of same situation as you I knew that they were playing there that
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night and I always lik Dimebag and I always liked the Vinnie Paul is the drummer who I believe it was Dimebag
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Daryl's cousin as well and they were cousin or brother maybe it was brother regardless they were related and um they
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were both in panta together I liked panta but I had seen panta live before so I wasn't really uh motivated to see
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damage plan plus around that time too I wasn't going to concerts as much you know as I started getting a little older
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I started going to fewer concerts but I was going to better concerts if that makes sense like you know you could see
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a lot of shows for 10 bucks 15 bucks 20 bucks you know and I would go to a lot of them when I was young as I got a
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little older i' see better bands at bigger venues bigger ticket prices but only go a couple times a year now in
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regards to where I was I could can't say where I was that night and I don't remember anyone inviting me or asking me
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to go but the the following the next day I W I worked at a uh restaurant that was
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about I'd say a mile from the AL Rosa Villa where the shooting took place and in my section I kept getting a lot of um
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younger kids which was weird to get that at like the lunch hour during the week because I I feel like that was that
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concert would have been like a Wednesday night or Thursday night maybe and yeah I I remember it being a
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weird night so I kept getting tables full of these of like 19 and 20 year olds that were dressed like they were
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going to an Alro Sevilla show and I I ended up and they they looked like they had been up all night
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like I I was like man I'm getting some rough looking tables yeah and so I asked uh somebody was kind of consoling
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somebody else at their at the table with them and I felt bad so I I I was like oh
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you know are you guys having a bad day is everything okay you know uh anything I can do just trying to you know break
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the ice a little bit and they told me what what happened I didn't know until right then and there right and I was
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like oh man you know I'm kind of floored so I didn't really know what to say but
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they were explaining to me that they were just like tired and starving they' been up all night and it was because
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after the shooting took place the you know the police and Medics and everybody was checking everybody out but the
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police were also getting questions you know asking questions and getting eyewitness accounts to kind of really
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piece together what happened right and then I think really after then right away a lot of people started going to
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alosa to mourn the situation yeah cuz we we played there a lot when we were in a
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band in high school so we were there and not only were we at the alosa a lot but
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we were in every part of alosa the stage backstage some areas that most people wouldn't have been if they've even just
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seen a show there and so it was kind of surreal because when you watch the video
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footage of that you could see like you know that stage you know any camera angle that they
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had at some point you watch a show at that angle because if you're the headlining
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band maybe you're watching the opening bands on the side or after you got done playing you're watching the headlining
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band from the side so yeah well and we Loosely knew the owner I mean we didn't know him outside of the alosa but we
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knew him from playing there and and talking with him yeah behind the scenes uh Rick catella The Rock and Roll
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Reverend who was locally was kind of famous for his commercials when we were kids you know he had the I'm not going
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to attempt to do his voice but that but that's when you thought you made it when
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you were in a high school band and he would say this is Rick catella of the rock and roll Reverend of the AL Rosa
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Villa mhm tonight yeah tonight or Friday night and then he'd say your band name and you go oh my God we made it his
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commercials which I mean fantastic his delivery and his voice but his commercials it it was like you would
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hear it on the radio between heavy metal songs and hard rock songs on on on a local station here and it was like a guy
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that was introducing a monst monster truck rally or a NASCAR Big Time Nascar event or heavyweight championship fight
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I mean he had that that voice and those pipes and a great delivery tonight you know and You' get even you would get
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pumped up especially if you were going to the alosa to see a band that you liked and you would hear it on the drive
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up you know cuz remember it was a bit of a drive for us when we were 16 17 it felt like it felt like a long drive and
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it doesn't anymore at the most it would have been like maybe 30 minutes 40 minutes right but but back then it felt
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like you're going to another world yeah yeah yeah a lot of people are have been saying that that we should release our
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music for sale our high school band music for sale on on the we on the website so if I remember
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correctly so Rick catella his parents owned Al Roa Villa right and the name comes from his father's name was Al his
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mother's name was Rosa and so that's how they get the name and some of his I don't know if they were brothers and
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sisters or cousins but there were a lot of people that looked like Rick catella that worked in in the uh bar yeah they
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didn't look like him but they look like they could be related right I think one of the bartenders was his brother and I
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think yeah the lady remember the mean lady that worked the door they were always nice to me everybody would always
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talk about oh this person's mean or always nice to me I I only had a problem with the lady that worked the door for
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whatever reason it was probably my fault I I'm not I don't mean I shouldn't say she was mean I can't remember the
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situation but I think that was his sister I was joking about you being a [ __ ] before but you were definitely
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more of a [ __ ] back then so I don't know if I ever told you the story but and we'll get back to the Rollins Rodeo
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murders here in just a second but I want to make sure I tell you this what I'm thinking about it so a few years
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probably 2 years after after Dimebag was killed at the alosa Villa right now mind you how many
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people were that was a that was a public shooting for those of you that aren't aware yeah the the perpetrator he was
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killed by a police officer that came in and saved the day I mean cuz who knows how many other victims and fatalities
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would have been that night oh it would have been bad it would have been very bad but there was if you watched the
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footage you would have been you would realize that if that cop never showed up it would just
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been maybe a hundred well this the the the guy the shooter had every intention of not just shooting the guys on the
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stage but also firing into the crowd yeah and um I bumped into remember Daryl the sound guy yeah um
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we he would do sound for us and he did sound for a lot of people and sometimes the national acts would bring in their
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own sound guy um but Daryl was if he was in a good mood and he which was never well well
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some nights he partied too much and the sound wasn't great but if he didn't party too much I thought he was a pretty
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quality sound guy so I went to a place called The High Beck which gets its name because it's on the corner of high and
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Beck and I used to work second shift near there at the property downtown Security
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administrator and I would go in there some nights usually on like a Thursday after my shift was over so it'd be
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pretty late like 11 o'clock at night by the time I'd walk in and he was sitting on a stool at the bar and I didn't
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recognize him at first like I it's a long bar so I walked past him his back would have been uh to me right and he
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saw me and he goes oh and I don't remember if he remembered my name right away or if it came to him shortly
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afterwards but he called me over and so we sat there and talked old War Stories all night as we drank and uh and then I
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I I brought up the the shooting which I probably shouldn't know but well you're a dick but but I mean he
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see this this show this is just Prov him Point go ahead well I mean why wouldn't
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I though like joking I we knew each other he worked there and I just was like I don't even think I brought it up
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to to get his opinion or right hear his story right I really just brought it up as a like a oh man that was horrible I
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heard about that and I feel bad and um and dude like I got through like one sentence and he started he broke down on
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me broke down on me started crying and uh gave him a few hugs and uh we we talked it out and it was certainly
00:20:03
horrible thing for all involved a horrible thing for the city but then talking to people that were there I mean
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that was the only time that I did and he told me he said um the catella family almost shut down the place and I think
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they temporarily shut it down for a long time so here's here's some information for you on December 88th 2004 damage
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plan was um on tour uh a guy named Nathan gaale which was a former Marine 25 years old he jumped the
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fence which there was a patio and the fence was tall this fence was 6 feet tall he jumps the fence he gets on stage
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he shoots Daryl in the head five times has a 9 mm Brea M9 uh Daryl was pronounced dead at the
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scene um he's going to kill three others and wound seven more Jeff Mayhem Thompson which was the
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head of security went right after you know right after he shot Dimebag he went right
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after him and he got killed uh Al Rosa employer employee Aaron hulke was also killed and an audience member Nathan
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Bray which was a Gross City alumni and a guy that came to our shows by a a kid that I actually played baseball
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with for many years and love the guy to death he's a short guy but if you watch that
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footage Dimebag is shot and Dimebag collapses and at some point Nathan jumps on stage to try to help him mhm and he
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gets shot right in the chest um and like I said there was other there was seven other people wounded now there was
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roughly two uh 250 people at the show yeah and they had two other bands two local
00:22:08
bands that were supporting the show but yeah Nathan was he was this awesome guy and he went to the show with a guy I
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grew up with uh Josh Drake which was a really good guitar player and Josh came into the the place
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I worked right afterwards and we just talked guitars for a while and then all of a sudden he brought up the shooting
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he and he was there he went with Nathan and when he told me the story I mean he just you know kind of zoned out for a
00:22:39
minute and it's really hard to listen to because that's this guy's friend I mean
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Nathan was my friend too right but they would come to when we played in our band
00:22:50
ground war they would come watch us play and and Nathan would always go oh yeah it
00:22:56
was pretty good but you you know oh no he would always say it's pretty good for uh you know [ __ ] music or he'd say it's
00:23:05
pretty good for um boy band music it was always something cuz he really liked you
00:23:11
know he'd kind of bust your balls and then he'd say oh no I like you guys but he liked really really heavy music mhm
00:23:18
and even though we're like heavy like he was like nah it's not heavy enough like
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you know and it was every show but he'd go to a bunch of shows and support and buy our records and like I said I played
00:23:32
baseball with him for multiple years mhm so just what a tragedy of uh Columbus Ohio well and you know what it was it
00:23:42
was such a uh shocker for me when it happened that I didn't I purposely didn't read any of the newspaper
00:23:50
accounts I didn't watch any of the news coverage uh I kind of just avoided it you know how sometimes things hit you
00:23:57
real hard you're you're just not ready to deal with it and so I just didn't I kind of tried to block it out in the
00:24:06
beginning and didn't really pay any attention to it and I think it must have been about six months
00:24:12
later um some TV channel did a a like a 20 minute 30 minute story on it right and they gave the whole rundown
00:24:23
of how what took place and and how it all went down and you know it was a stunner for me was you mentioned the
00:24:31
shooter jumped the fence and this was like a this was like a like you said six foot tall maybe taller 7 foot tall
00:24:38
privacy fence right that was created so that they would have a patio and the the
00:24:46
alosa I thought was a pretty cool setup the way that they had everything because
00:24:51
250 people 300 people really good sound um it was a place that had small field but it hold
00:25:00
it held a few hundred people and they would have these two doors on the sides that went out to this patio area if you
00:25:07
remember when we were young and we first started playing there there that patio area didn't exist that was like part of
00:25:14
the parking lot and the problem when we were younger at the alosa was they would
00:25:20
pack so many people in there and the it would get so damn hot in there by like the second band like that place
00:25:28
never had to turn on the heat cuz remember we'd show up for like sound check and bringing in the equipment and
00:25:33
stuff and it would be frigid in there it would be cold and you would be like oh man how we going to how are we going to
00:25:40
play in here it's like feels like it's 40° and by the time the second band would go on it felt like it was 90 or
00:25:48
100 degrees in there because all the lights all the equipment all the people yeah and that patio area was great
00:25:55
because you'd watch a band and then everybody would flock out to that patio because they needed a breather right
00:26:01
they needed a breath of fresh air and that guy scaled that uh privacy fence went in through one of the side doors
00:26:09
and and watching the account on that show of how everything went down it was another stunner for me because I always
00:26:16
just assumed that the shooter went in the back door remember how like when bands were playing it wasn't uncommon
00:26:22
for the back door to be open right or cracked or cracked yeah because it was so hot in there
00:26:29
that it would be they would just kind of leave it open and it was a door that I don't know if it if you had to
00:26:34
physically lock it or if it just locked behind you but a lot of the band members
00:26:38
and Ries and stuff and security would go in and out of that door kind of constantly throughout the night so it
00:26:44
was always just cracked or propped open yeah and anybody could go through that door but it was kind of known like if
00:26:51
you're not a part of the band they'll go through that door so yeah and to give you an idea of how often that door was
00:26:57
just like left open that's why I always thought that's where he entered the building from I
00:27:03
remember de tones played at the aosa which was a big deal and I don't remember what tickets were but for
00:27:09
whatever reason me and my buddy I think it just sold out so fast that me and my buddy couldn't get tickets to it we
00:27:16
really wanted to see death tones so I told him I said um he was all you know upset he was down that we weren't going
00:27:24
to get to see him and I I said look man it's not going to be as good as seeing them but that door the back the
00:27:31
door to the back of the building that goes right behind the stage is always open it's always cracked let's just
00:27:37
drive up there and we'll just sit by that door and uh listen to the band listen to
00:27:43
De tones that way yeah and what's crazy about this whole situation too is uh Nathan
00:27:50
Gail um was actually an altercation with the band 6 months prior in Cincinnati in
00:27:57
which he damaged like $5,000 worth of equipment and had to be removed from stage by security and it was all this
00:28:05
stuff about like that Dimebag Daryl broke up panta and uh yes and Vinnie Paul is his
00:28:13
brother okay so and then also there was some allegations that Gail made that said
00:28:20
that uh they were stealing his songs Daryl stole a song that he had written yeah the shooter what was his name Gail
00:28:28
yeah he was like super from my understanding he was like super delusional like he I think he was
00:28:34
schizophrenic yeah yeah and and he had um he was kind of living in a different reality than the rest of us and yeah he
00:28:45
he was blaming the band members for a lot of things going on in his life and they obviously had no you know they
00:28:54
didn't know what was going on in his what's also really impressive is responding within 3 minutes to the 911
00:29:01
call made at 10:15 seven police officers enter through the front entrance and move towards the stage mhm within 3
00:29:10
minutes of the 911 call and like I said yes now I know some other friends of mine that were there that said once the
00:29:18
shooting took place people were pushing people out onto that patio or outside and then even once they're on the patio
00:29:28
people were helping people maybe they opened up the fence maybe they couldn't and some people were jumping the fence
00:29:34
but I just remember that there was a lot of people helping out to get people out
00:29:38
of Harm's Way but like I said if this guy had more guns or more ammunition and the cops didn't get there he was just
00:29:44
going to keep killing people I mean like I said I wouldn't be surprised this guy
00:29:50
was probably schizophrenic but thank God that he didn't plan it out better because if he would have
00:29:58
I mean like I said it could be 50 to 100 people murdered so and and and without that response time from the police
00:30:08
officers well and he's he has some military training too you know so yeah um yeah it was a horrible situation but
00:30:18
also one of those ones where you're like you know thank God it wasn't worse than
00:30:23
what it what it could have been right um so back to this Rollin so this is from this next one's from our blog actually
00:30:35
and while I do really appreciate the email that I got that we just went over I actually prefer you know if
00:30:44
anybody out there I prefer to direct people to the blog if they have a comment or a personal story about a case
00:30:52
that we cover well what's interesting is it gives everybody else that listen to the story that's fascinated by that case
00:30:58
a chance to hear that information yes and a chance to join in the conversation as well because sometimes we get
00:31:06
questions that are directed to you or I or both through email that we might not have the answers to but if you put it on
00:31:13
the blog you might get somebody local from the area or local from the time frame that is able to add something to
00:31:22
the story or shed some light on your question this one's weird cuz it's similar this is my mother grew up in the
00:31:27
area and graduated from Rollins High School she knew both carlen Brown and Christy gross she says carlen Brown and
00:31:36
Christy gross were not friends they ran in different circles but she knew them uh her comment when I mentioned the case
00:31:45
to her last night at dinner was that they all knew about those two girls going missing but as far as she could
00:31:52
tell the local authorities kept the other two going missing very quiet this is in resp this is regarding the younger
00:32:01
girls that went missing they didn't want to freak out people especially tourist so that goes
00:32:07
to what we were talking about about Deborah Meyer's case here we have a a daughter of a local woman who says yeah
00:32:17
we she knew about it but they kept it very quiet especially and she puts particularly Deborah's case they kept
00:32:24
very quiet yeah and it's it's interesting to hear from people that live Liv in the area of these cases I
00:32:30
wish I wish we heard more from them so definitely you know go to the blog if you in the area even if you think it's
00:32:37
something kind of silly I mean I've heard some of the most interesting things from our listeners well I love
00:32:42
when people throw a theory out there me too what what about this or did anybody consider this or you know and sometimes
00:32:50
you can you can come up with a good theory in a particular case because of another case that you've heard of or
00:32:56
studied and say you know what does this apply here as well but so a couple other
00:33:04
things she mentions that although hitchhiking was fairly common the state penitentiary is located in Rollins which
00:33:12
I I didn't know that the state pen was in Rollins and she adds folks around here have always been a little more
00:33:18
weary about giving rides to strangers because the prison is located right there right and then regarding remember
00:33:27
we had some uh this was more of me complaining in episode one but there were two very different
00:33:35
accounts of their vehicle situation with the first two victims carlen and Christie One account was that their
00:33:45
vehicle their car was found a long drive away in a place called uh warland a town
00:33:55
called warland and then the other story regarding the same situation right was that they were driving a van that day
00:34:03
and the van was later located at the rodeo grounds like they like their vehicle didn't even leave that uh the
00:34:10
place that they went the fair I think the [ __ ] thing that we said was is it a car or a van and that's a big
00:34:16
difference um one this blogger this person on our blog says that her mother also said that the
00:34:27
reports they all heard about the car was not found at either warland or van found
00:34:34
at the rodeo grounds but rather their car had been found at wagonhound rest stop at the wagon Hound rest stop which
00:34:42
is between Rollins and laramy right so now we have a third account of what happened to the vehicle right but I I I
00:34:48
like this one a little better just because it's somebody from the area from the time right so interesting stuff
00:34:56
there that's interesting case what uh episode numbers do you have those off the top of your I don't off the top of
00:35:06
your Dome what 275 I guess I don't know I'm I'm going to go look it up right now on
00:35:12
my Stitcher app so maybe those maybe that little bit of information there that's was a really
00:35:19
interesting case to research and to um cover on our show here because one it was one I had not heard of remember I
00:35:26
gave you some praise for bringing that one to the table and you praised a listener for suggesting that case I'd
00:35:33
never it's it's one of those ones that when you when you read into it and when you look it up when you study it you're
00:35:40
going why isn't this like general knowledge why isn't this more well known throughout the True Crime um you
00:35:48
know yeah 275 274 275 274 mhm episode numbers yeah so maybe that maybe going going over those emails will inspire
00:36:00
more people to come forward with information regarding that case and what was going on or their speculation or
00:36:06
rumors that they heard I I like hearing the rumors too Captain because I'm a firm believer that while I try to walk
00:36:13
into it you know take a rumor with a grain of salt type of situation I also believe that you know where there's
00:36:19
smoke sometimes there's fire so sometimes there's truth in those rumors especially ones that get handed down
00:36:26
from generation to generation right just like they say there's a little truth in every joke there you go
00:36:39
[Applause]