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GameChanger hey it's it's Nick from True Crime garage and you're listening to this great show so you obviously love
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Crime [Music] week [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:02:21
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who has been sentenced to solitary confinement behind
00:02:29
the glass in the garage Studio Engineers room he is our captain yeah so if I'm not making any sense you know why it's
00:02:37
good to be seen and it's good to see you and I'm telling you I'm tired of the baloney sandwiches thanks for listening
00:02:43
and thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are slow sipping with happiness a delicious double Porter
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called bonfire from Napa Smith bonfire is a beautiful black color with a little caramel sweetness with roasted malt
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flavors that goes down silky smooth garage grade 3 and 3/4 bottle caps out of five and here we go and give praise
00:03:11
and cheers to our good friends first up praise and cheers to Anthony in Craig Colorado and a big special we love your
00:03:20
Jim big thank you to Michelle and Baltimore Maryland next up we have Mary Bell in Paris California and big cheers
00:03:30
to Sarah in Springfield Illinois next up Captain we have my man Shawn in Boulder
00:03:36
Colorado Who Says with each episode he can feel his jib getting bigger and last but certainly not least
00:03:44
flicky yeah M last but certainly not least Captain we have Mark in Toronto Ontario Canada thank you all for
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contributing to this week's beer fund if you want to help us out with next week's
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set of shows go to True Crim garage.com click on the donate button or check out the show page and support your local
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garage True Crime podcast yeah and please write to your local Congress person to free me free me from my
00:04:13
solitary confinement save the captain sa please there's nothing to do and everybody's staring at me forget about
00:04:22
saving the captain just no pants on just go to iTunes and leave us some some Stars we need your stars five STS please
00:04:31
five of them and that is enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:04:40
[Music] crime [Music] where we left off yesterday Captain they had just found missing Ray Rivera's body
00:05:29
ins inside the badier hotel which is now primarily being used for Condominiums and he has crashed through
00:05:38
the roof we still do not know for what reason and his lifeless body is found inside the building Al Reay had multiple
00:05:46
injuries including lacerations fractured ribs punctured lungs of course suggesting that he had fallen from a
00:05:55
height into this room some of Ray's injuries are stated to be consistent with a fall While others are stated not
00:06:04
to be and in particular they site his tibas being fractured the medical examiner will go on record saying that
00:06:13
this does not seem to be consistent with a fall that would be your shins correct
00:06:20
also found we have raay flip-flops that were found on the Roof near the hole that he crashed through one broken and
00:06:28
one withh fresh drag marks raised glasses are found and they appear to be in good shape his cell phone is found
00:06:37
the phone has scratches on it but it is not broken it's in working order raise money clip which was an engraved wedding
00:06:47
gift from Allison that she and his brother say he always carried with him they do not find
00:06:56
this on rais person or on the rooftop other than that it seems pretty consistent that what Allison and others
00:07:04
believe he would have left with him that day taken with him when he left the house that day everything was found on
00:07:11
him with him or on the rooftop and I'm assuming they never found the money clip back out his house or anything right
00:07:19
this was not found on him it's never been located at all I think it'd be something that would be completely
00:07:26
washed away from the story had it been recovered MH okay so the problem with a lot of this
00:07:33
is the hole itself and where Rey is found according to Unsolved Mysteries there were three possible places from
00:07:44
which Ry could have jumped or maybe been pushed mhm from to end up going creating
00:07:53
that hole and then crashing down into that unoccupied room and for people who haven't hav seen the episode I'm going
00:08:01
to post all these pictures there's a bunch of pictures of the actual hotel or condo complex whatever you want to call
00:08:08
it and bunch of different angles and a a rooftop View and even some measurements
00:08:15
that people have taken I'll post all of those to our Instagram that's true crime
00:08:20
garage follow us on Instagram this is where it gets difficult that we are simply audio and there's no video to go
00:08:28
along with it because I think you know we're going to do our best to tell the story and paint the picture for you well
00:08:33
people keep requesting audio because you're so handsome but I keep breaking the cameras video yeah so as police
00:08:41
began to analyze this case numerous aspects seemed odd about Ray Rivera jumping off of the main roof of the
00:08:50
badier Hotel this is partly due to where the location of the hole is in the lower
00:08:57
roof there was a considerable horizontal distance between the hotel Tower and the
00:09:04
location of the hole in the lower roof so I think the way to go about this here Captain because we have these three
00:09:12
different spots that Unsolved Mysteries says he could have come from to end up going through that hole in the roof and
00:09:19
that's a weird way of saying it to go through that hole in the roof it makes it sound like the hole was already there
00:09:25
right his unfortunately his body created that hole but I think you have to say it that way
00:09:31
because it's really the placement of the hole as far as a distance goes from the
00:09:36
surrounding above areas to get to that spot that makes it seem mathematically difficult right and that again is a big
00:09:46
part of the mystery of why did he end up there and how did he end up where we found him so the first one that I think
00:09:53
we should discuss would be the parking garage because this one seems to be the most easily explained away as no it
00:10:00
seems like this is the least likely of these three spots that he could have come from yeah possibly right so the way
00:10:08
that this works is that the parking garage the top of it is the measurements are about 20 ft higher than the lower
00:10:15
roof that he crashed through and the spot the hole in the roof is about 20 ft out the detective that initially looked
00:10:25
at this case he's on record saying I don't think that that is a high enough distance to create an impact that one
00:10:34
would even kill a man or two would cause him to crash through the ceiling so I'm
00:10:40
going to go with that detective's assessment of of that uh angle there from the top of the parking garage well
00:10:49
let's go with the suicide angle as well it' be a pretty far distance for somebody to run and try to jump yes it
00:10:57
would be but I think that there would would be okay so I think that there's a problem with the distance of the upper
00:11:04
rooftop of the badier more so than the distance traveled to make it to that spot on the lower roof from the parking
00:11:11
garage it's only 20 ft out what he's saying is that if if Ray would have jumped from the parking garage he likely
00:11:20
would have survived the jump right and and let's say the other problem is he did create a
00:11:28
hole the ceiling and go through the detective is saying he would have survived it and or not have had a great
00:11:35
enough impact to crash through the ceiling what I've heard and since we're starting with the parking garage uh one
00:11:42
idea that I find very interesting or a theory that I find very interesting is well could you get there and could you
00:11:50
create an impact if the you know the velocity was stronger than somebody throwing you or jumping
00:12:00
as maybe he was hit by a vehicle or thrown from a vehicle that's an interesting question because what you
00:12:09
have to account too if you go well he jumped okay well do you know how hard it is to jump when your both of your shins
00:12:18
are broken if in fact the fall didn't create the break well the doctors are saying
00:12:24
they didn't they say inconsistent right so which is not the same as impossible right but again nothing's impossible he
00:12:32
could have you know aliens could have thrown him from the sky for all we know but I'm going to go with the doctors and
00:12:39
say this injury happened beforehand okay what would hit you around The Shins well
00:12:47
certain cars bumpers possibly could hit you um so is it a situation where he's going to meet somebody up and when he
00:12:57
met them up did they have baseball bats or did they hit him with a car and then was he on
00:13:04
top of the car and then they drove him really fast to the edge and hit the brakes is that a
00:13:10
possibility it I mean you just said aliens could have put him there so I I don't know I don't know how to go about
00:13:17
this there is a wall I mean it's not like a straight ledge that you would go off of or that if a vehicle hit you that
00:13:25
you would just be essentially shot out of a cannon and fired to that spot on the roof so I
00:13:31
think it's I think it gets a little difficult of okay you just said that it would be very difficult for him to get
00:13:37
there jumping wise 20 ft out it also seems possibly even more difficult to get to throw him out that far yeah like
00:13:47
two two people throwing a 6'5 260lb man that does not want to go over a ledge yeah you manage to catapult him out 20
00:13:57
feet now I I get what you're saying about the distance traveled seems to be difficult and everybody agrees with that
00:14:04
the reason why I'm kind of glossing over that moving to the next part is because
00:14:09
the if he were to go from the rooftop the distance traveled horizontally would be even more now granted he would have a
00:14:17
a further distance of falling to to get out that far they do say that it's scientifically
00:14:25
possible it's not impossible that he couldn't have got himself all the way out there so the
00:14:31
way that that works is we just talk 20 ft out if he were to jump or get shot or however from the top of the parking
00:14:39
garage over to the rooftop where he crashed through the horizontal distance from the roof top all the way up mhm one
00:14:48
of the other options is estimated at 40 to 43 ft so almost double the distance correct so they brought in some
00:14:57
Engineers to see if this is even possible and they estimate that somebody traveling at a speed of 10 or 11 miles
00:15:07
per hour could in fact make it all the way out that far now you have to factor in a few different things right one
00:15:16
could he even get up to a speed on foot of 10 to 11 mil hour most people put that as a fast jog or Sprint for the
00:15:27
average fit male this would be you know again wearing sport shoes this guy's wearing
00:15:34
flip-flops one of them ends up broken but yeah it's it's estimated that somebody could get up to that speed well
00:15:43
they could have been in his hand yes and so he could have just ran Barefoot but again then anytime you
00:15:51
factor in that this is suicide I guess you have to then again assume that the fall shattered his shins I don't know
00:16:01
and I I think they were talking a lot about that there's not a lot lot of access to that roof so that be hard for
00:16:07
him to even get access so what we have here is with the other two locations again the parking garage aside because
00:16:16
it doesn't seem that that would have killed Ray right but the other location would be from the 11 from the 11th floor
00:16:25
ledge of the badier hotel now this spot seems to make a little more sense because it puts him much closer to the
00:16:32
hole in the rooftop below yeah and it's enough distance that he could have ran so whatever speed he would have to get
00:16:41
up to to make that distance he could have done yeah and again I he wouldn't have had to make it out that far of a
00:16:49
distance that's why this spot seems to make a little more sense as far as the math goes the problem with the 11th
00:16:56
floor ledge and we say ledge but I mean you see this on Unsolved Mysteries and yeah they're they're kind of quick to
00:17:03
say hey it'd be difficult to to to walk along that ledge it actually looked like
00:17:07
a pretty a pretty decent sized ledge to me mhm as you pointed out the problem with
00:17:14
the 11 floor ledge and getting to the top of the badier itself is that we don't have
00:17:22
anybody who has ever reported to have seen Ray Rivera in the building that night yeah and where's the cameras you'd
00:17:32
think you know this is a hotel that turns into condos they would have some security you know a lot about this I
00:17:41
mean you worked in a high-rise condo facility for a while yeah I worked in a building that would be the general
00:17:49
description would be the same as what we're talking about here the Bader Hotel highrise Condominiums Downtown you guys
00:17:57
had a lot of cameras we had a ton of cameras I guess the major difference here would be that the building I worked
00:18:03
in was built in the late 90s and as we discussed this building was built in the early 1900s right now of course you come
00:18:11
in and you put in those cameras much later they didn't have security cameras when the building was built obviously we
00:18:17
don't have anybody that says that they saw Ray Rivera in the building prior to finding him dead in the portion of the
00:18:25
building below mhm one major problem with that Captain is the 11th floor ledge that he would have had to get to
00:18:34
this is privately owned condos this is not just like some some space inside the building where people can get to well
00:18:41
I'd like to know if any of them are connected to his old work that is the major question I think that is the big
00:18:48
question that is missing from the Unsolved Mysteries presentation as well as anything else that I could find
00:18:56
because the time s that I worked in in these types of of living situations it was very common for
00:19:05
individuals to live in the residential Tower and work at buildings within walking distance of the residential
00:19:12
Tower these are typically fairly well-to-do people that are working downtown and they're living and paying
00:19:19
that higher cost of living to live there so that they don't have to commute in and out of the city MH that they can you
00:19:27
know what oh it's a day I think I'll just cross the street and go up to the 10th floor to my office the 11th floor
00:19:34
has condos that are owned by individuals he would have had to have had access by one of those individuals
00:19:41
somehow to get out to the ledge and then the weirder part is nobody's coming forward saying yeah he he committed
00:19:48
suicide right outside my window yeah but it could have been like a force jump situation either they're attacking him
00:19:57
within a room and he he went to escape and this is what happened or it was look buddy you're going to go off that ledge
00:20:08
and jump for it and if you don't we're going to kill your wife mhm you know it could have been that kind of situation
00:20:16
doesn't he could have jumped and it still could have been murder I mean I think he could have made that distance I
00:20:22
still question injuries to his shin but then I also question is were they was he
00:20:30
being beat up by anybody was he possibly hit with something was there possible fractures and not not breaks until the
00:20:39
actual jump if that makes any sense right if he's trying to escape or there injuries that they can't account for
00:20:46
because of the because of the fall or going through the roof are those because he was being attacked by somebody so you
00:20:55
brought up the security cameras and one thing that really upset me when I first started looking into this case is is
00:21:01
just what upset me when we talked about Jennifer kassie's case or you know be it
00:21:06
a a hotel in downtown Chicago we've covered cases that that have that going on and anytime that we have these right
00:21:14
Brandon Swanson no he was out in the middle of Jesse Ross Kena Jenkins and I mean there's a there's a a good long
00:21:22
list of cases that we've discussed that have security cameras involved and one thing that UPS set me in some of those
00:21:29
cases is that they have no camera footage yet they have the cameras as fixtures on and inside the buildings
00:21:37
this is a situation where we don't have any camera footage as well now on the surface most of the reports out there
00:21:45
State the same thing that they were the the camera was disconnected or there was a glitch in
00:21:52
the system that sounds very suspicious almost like oh we we knew we were going to kill him we knew we were going to
00:22:00
throw him off the side of this building let's make it so the cameras are not working after some more digging what I
00:22:06
found was that it was a simple case of remember he wasn't found very quickly he was missing for a a week the way this
00:22:17
was all digitized so the program was set up to record over its old footage at some
00:22:26
point and because they had they found him within a day 24 hours 48 hours whenever they likely would have had some
00:22:35
kind of footage of what was going on and we would have a whole very likely a whole different story to tell here in
00:22:42
the garage today but the way that I understand this Captain is that it was because he wasn't
00:22:48
found for a certain amount of time that be a week or a little over a week that the the footage was set up it was
00:22:57
predetermined to to record over itself and therefore whatever it captured is just completely lost right
00:23:06
so that's just it's it's unfortunate and I will say this you know because I saw the question come up that says well this
00:23:12
is just a shame you know I could understand it had he been missing for two weeks three
00:23:17
weeks or four weeks or a month that they would have recorded over top of it it's
00:23:22
very common in in most of the situations I've worked in that the footage is recorded over within a week of itself
00:23:31
yeah cuz normally if there's a crime police are pretty quick to go around and collect any footage now at the places
00:23:38
that I've worked Captain where there's an abundance of security and security officers what we would do is actually
00:23:45
have someone view the footage before we would before we would record over it now
00:23:55
mind you the person is viewing it at four times eight times 16 times the speed you're really just looking for
00:24:03
anything blatantly obvious of something wrong going on yeah Bigfoot exactly I mean you can't it'd be difficult to pay
00:24:11
somebody to sit there and watch days and days and days of footage every time you
00:24:15
record over so I went from being pretty upset because the the thing that I pointed out in Jennifer kesse's case
00:24:21
along with a lot of these other cases if you're paying to live there that's one of the things that's built into your
00:24:26
homeowners fees to your condo fees is that they are selling you peace of mind they are selling you that you live in a
00:24:32
secure building okay so just to go over this real quick so the parking garage like I said I heard the theory about him
00:24:39
getting hit by a car and maybe the car launched him but like you said there's a wall there's all these factors is it
00:24:48
possible I don't know if you tried it a hundred times maybe one out of 100 it could happen but doesn't seem likely and
00:24:57
would that be enough Force to send him through this roof the problem also with the roof is we just don't know for
00:25:04
certain because he's also a like you said he's a tall guy he's a heavier guy at what height is that possible so even
00:25:14
though I like that theory I don't think it's likely so the parking garage for me
00:25:18
just doesn't seem like the most plausible right but then even less likely to get to the top of this
00:25:28
facility and to jump off or to be pushed off it doesn't seem like it's that probable it seems like he would have to
00:25:38
be doing a lot of traveling through the air and because it's so much higher up it seems like maybe there would be
00:25:49
more damage to the body and then it doesn't make a lot of sense with the cell phone and the
00:25:57
flipflop flops being found on top of the roof at that height now if you go down lower like you were saying this other
00:26:05
ledge but he'd have to have access through one of the private rooms or private condos but it does seem possible that
00:26:18
that that's more likely to me that that ledge would be where he came from and now with the flip-flops and the phone
00:26:29
now hear me out it could be wrong I've always thought well that seems like maybe that afterwards May did somebody
00:26:37
go to the garage get onto the roof of the building walk across and look down to see to make
00:26:47
sure he's dead right M and then did they leave those items behind or is it possible
00:26:54
those items were in his hands and once he hit the roof he then loses control of them and now
00:27:07
they're only falling you know a couple feet if that makes sense as he's going through the
00:27:15
roof yeah so the way that I've always kind of thought about this and I thought look the the flip-flops the ey glasses
00:27:22
the the cell phone to me is not such a big mystery because as our cell phones have gotten smarter and more
00:27:29
sophisticated they seem to have gotten more fragile over the years his cell phone is kind of a plasticky cell phone
00:27:37
that I think could take what do they say take a licking and keep on ticking that's what she said I could see the
00:27:42
cell phone surviving that fall the eyeglasses seem a bit strange to me but the oh yeah cuz there's a the eyeglasses
00:27:50
are also on the roof as well so the people that discredit anybody saying that he could
00:27:55
have come off of the parking garage off of either of those places of the badier rooftop they say well maybe he was
00:28:02
pushed out of a helicopter which I'm not going to lie to you that mathematically
00:28:08
makes some sense because he's then just dropping straight down right but what eyewitness do we have of a helicopter
00:28:16
being in the area well not only that then you have a problem here like is he if he's dropped out of a helicopter
00:28:23
pushed out of a helicopter he's forced out under that manner is he is he just holding these items because people say
00:28:31
well maybe these items were staged to be there in that location and I look the problem is if you force him off of the
00:28:42
ledge at any of these three locations or force them out of a helicopter then you
00:28:48
have to figure out a way to magically place these items so that they fall right near the hole of the roof that
00:28:56
seems difficult not impossible but it seems unlikely okay go back so what you're
00:29:04
saying is if he jumps or you force him out that if he was holding these items if he doesn't have them on his person
00:29:12
right because there are people that say well maybe these items were staged that oh you know I got to I got to get rid of
00:29:19
his belongings now and I want to put them near where they're going to find his body right it wouldn't be that hard
00:29:26
for them to go the GR and walk on the roof and just place them down but that's what I want to know I want to know when
00:29:32
they say these items were found near the hole in the roof what is that distance right because if they're saying that
00:29:40
they're found within 6 in of that 40in diameter hole that's pretty damn close yeah and also if they're found just on
00:29:48
some you know anywhere on the rooftop then than whatever anybody could have just tossed them from anywhere and they
00:29:54
landed there well I also want to know like we have the flip flops the glasses cell phone that we find on the roof do
00:30:02
we find other items that are around his person in the room no it it seems like the the only
00:30:11
things that were that were reported to be questionable were these items that were found on the roof itself before he
00:30:20
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[Music] Freedom all right cheers you animals true crime animals true crime animals
00:32:51
all right we have a note to talk about here captain and this is a weird one and certainly one of the more weird aspects
00:33:01
of this entire case in my opinion and that is that a note was found taped to the back of Ray Rivera's
00:33:10
computer and the way that this is described was that angel his brother and Allison his wife found this note taped
00:33:18
to the back of his computer after Ry disappeared yeah but it's it almost like he took a bunch of pages and shrunk them
00:33:25
down into one yeah the description I would provide for this note for those who have not seen it
00:33:32
it appears that it's printed off on his computer and it looks like it's three different columns and that he put it in
00:33:41
the smallest font he possibly could to fit all three columns which in themsel selves would be three different pages on
00:33:50
one single page and then he seems to have gone around and cut the edges the blank edges off of the paper to make the
00:33:59
paper itself even smaller and then folds it up and puts it into a plastic bag or
00:34:07
some form of plastic and tapes it to the back of his computer now you know there's a lot of things that you can
00:34:16
question in this case and this note is very bizarre I I really do not know how to
00:34:26
take this note or how to feel about it I will say that the the things that were written on the Note itself it does
00:34:35
appear to me for as an outsider looking in that this was authored by Ry MH and Allison would go on to tell us that she
00:34:44
believes that it was it was written and printed the day that he went missing because she found the Cutaway edges of
00:34:52
the piece of paper in the trash can but again this note folded up and taped to the back of the computer and we should
00:35:02
also mention that along with the note there was they found a blank check from his video production company now the
00:35:10
general description of this note is that it is a confusing note that included the
00:35:15
names of prominent figures in Hollywood Freemasonry quotations and additional ramblings the
00:35:23
FBI analyzed this note and according to the retired detective interviewed on Unsolved Mysteries the he says the FBI
00:35:31
ruled that the note was not suicidal in nature I have seen it noted that the FBI
00:35:36
may have deemed the note to be the delusional ramblings of someone in the throws of a psychotic break I think
00:35:44
there's a lot of people that keep notes to themselves like you know I have notes
00:35:50
that I put in my phone that if you saw them you'd be like what what the heck is this one of them is just like a list of
00:35:57
song titles so if you went through the list and you start going um you know lonely
00:36:05
forever the next song zombie pills you would start reading the list going what the heck is this this it sounds like he
00:36:15
lost his mind mhm yeah I think the location of where they find the note adds to the mystery of it because now
00:36:24
this man's mysteriously disappeared his wife says that she cannot or explain nor understand his death and then we
00:36:34
have this note that's taped to the back of his computer screen I get what you're
00:36:38
saying and that's what my mind immediately went to in my own personal life of of notes that I take be it on my
00:36:45
computer in my phone on scraps of paper in notebooks but that's in notebooks and on
00:36:52
scraps of paper you know what I mean it's like if you bury it in the backyard yard and it's later found or you put it
00:36:58
up in your attic or tape it to your ceiling or behind your computer screen it takes on a different meaning yeah in
00:37:05
some way it's like why why did he go to the effort to print it in this manner trim away the edges cover it up in
00:37:12
plastic include a blank check with it and then tape it to the back of the computer it's it's one of those weird
00:37:19
things where it's like did did he do that because he wanted it to be found but not so easily found h and if it is
00:37:27
just the ramblings of a creative mind who's saving ideas or creating ideas and and and logging them for later use it
00:37:37
also again it seems like a strange place to yeah but there's also a section where
00:37:41
it's a list of a bunch of people he knew as well well I think we should probably
00:37:46
go through what is believed to be on this letter yeah and we'll say that because if you're looking I'll post a
00:37:54
couple of the pictures that I found online but it's but all you're seeing is like the the the note from a distance
00:38:03
and like Nichol saying that the the Fawn is so small that you can't even make out
00:38:08
anything so it's kind of interesting because this case of talked about was on Unsolved Mysteries was requested so
00:38:16
highly from the listeners for us to go over it as well and there's really normally a famous note like this it
00:38:25
would be all over there internet and and be documented and and diagrammed out don't you kind of question the no even
00:38:33
more because they've chosen not to do that yeah that's a good point it seems a bit weird that that Allison look and she
00:38:41
is very level-headed because I've seen interviews with her where she says all I'm asking is that this be looked at and
00:38:49
that people investigate his death because I think we've we've gone through so much minutia in this case that we
00:38:55
probably for forgot to mention that the police deemed this to be a suicide they they say we don't have all the answers
00:39:03
but they say what we have found we don't have any reason to believe that anything
00:39:07
other than suicide took place here well and back to his wife Allison uh very smart you can tell she's very
00:39:16
intelligent so but why wouldn't she want to put out the note right and her exact
00:39:20
words from an interview that I saw with her she says all I'm asking is that people take another look at this that
00:39:26
police and investigators take another look at this for the for my sake and for the family's sake and for uh Rey's sake
00:39:33
and she saying look if you decide upon further investigation that it was in fact suicide I'm fine with
00:39:40
that I just want to feel good and have some peace of mind about the answers I'm getting and she
00:39:46
does not have that right now well and I so then that makes me sorry to cut off but it makes me question it further then
00:39:52
why is this note not more readily available right because you can't I can't find it anywhere and you're good
00:39:58
at computers and you normally find these what I can find is pictures of this note
00:40:03
and what I can find are people who have tried to transcribe the note best they can from blurry images of the note or by
00:40:12
watching Unsolved Mysteries and hitting Pauls on the screen and trying to make out what they see there so when we go
00:40:18
through what this note says keep in mind we we can't say 100% that this is in fact the exact words
00:40:26
word for word of what the note says well I was just going to say a lot of people
00:40:30
are very quick to rule out a possible suicide we have an individual that moved him and his wife across the country for
00:40:39
opportunity that obviously didn't work out or maybe he felt like he didn't let the situation work out because it wasn't
00:40:48
a good fit for him and then he was doing some other stuff but when you have to start a company by borrowing a bunch of
00:40:55
money one of the number one reasons for suicide especially in males is financial
00:41:03
so it's just not out of the realm of possibilities when people say oh well my brother would never do that or my friend
00:41:09
would never do that or my husband would never do that that happens a lot of times in in
00:41:15
suicides you know sadly enough but it's not out of the realm of possibility Captain I'm going to go through this
00:41:22
letter a little bit and I'm not going to necessarily go through every single word
00:41:27
because people can look this up and I think that if we really tried to analyze this down to every sentence and every
00:41:34
word we would be doing another four or five episodes on Ray's case hey I'm I'm down so again this is what people have
00:41:44
interpreted this letter to say brothers and sisters right now around the world volcanoes are erupting what an awesome
00:41:52
site then next we have a masonic quote again more of the Freemason stuff and then that's followed by that was a
00:42:01
wellplayed game congratulations to all who participated I hope you enjoyed it but it is time to wake up so here I am
00:42:09
I'd like to welcome those who accepted our invitations for membership during the game we couldn't have done it
00:42:16
without you I took on this endeavor to find the truth but not for its own sake in accepting this quest for truth I
00:42:24
hoped to make myself with the help of others into a man worthy and ready to receive it members of the council please
00:42:32
note that I will lend careful consideration to the tradition respons traditional responsibilities in light of
00:42:39
these proceedings and I will satisfy the standard request of this Council within
00:42:45
the appropriate time again well done to all who participated I expect the council has invited all the players who
00:42:54
have gave their lives to this Pursuit suit back so they might join us here again we we have no idea what he could
00:43:02
be talking about join us here join us where well and it could because he writes scripts it could be just uh
00:43:10
jotting down an idea for a monologue in a movie yeah and it goes on to say something like before I continue with my
00:43:17
instructions for the council and claim the prize for my service I'd like to allow Porter stanbury to claim his prize
00:43:26
the next couple sentences it's not clear a lot of the words are kind of missing I'm going to jump over that a little bit
00:43:33
but at some point it's thought that he's saying something to the effect of now that the game is finished I expect the
00:43:41
council to blank most people think he's saying reward those who have given what might be time and talent to
00:43:50
this Venture along with myself these players should be made 5 years younger by the council and then it's a long list
00:43:58
of names and you can actually you can find this in two versions you can find a small blurry version or you can find a
00:44:05
bigger version where the last names are redacted but it's a long list of names anything any thoughts so far on
00:44:15
what we've gone through no keep going okay I'm GNA I'm going to offer up some of mine right here because I don't know
00:44:22
what this council is that he's talking about but he keeps referencing the game right it seems a little weird to me
00:44:33
that he is there seems to be some kind of Prize or reward that should be given to himself and to these other people and
00:44:42
one thing that I find very interesting is that the reward that he is saying that these people should get is to be
00:44:49
made 5 years younger by the council meaning the the list of names that follow that because it is a reward these
00:44:58
must be people that he deems to be good people or deserving of a reward and going through this list one name that I
00:45:08
did find on there is Frank stanbury which we said at the beginning of yesterday's episode that his friend his
00:45:17
longtime friend's name is Frank Porter Sansbury so again kind of going back to the idea that a lot of people are
00:45:24
suspicious of this Porter guy but if if he is in fact referencing his friend Frank Porter stanbury as Frank
00:45:35
stanburry in this portion of the letter it's almost like Ry is saying he's a good guy he's deserving of some type of
00:45:42
reward for his effort for his time for his talents for his Good Deeds maybe but then where that becomes a problem is
00:45:51
several times in this same note or letter whatever you want to call it he he refers to this man as Porter
00:45:58
Sansbury so then you have to wonder is France is Frank Porter stansberry's father does he have the same name and is
00:46:07
Ry then rewarding somebody else you know why would you refer to somebody a couple times as Porter
00:46:14
Stanbery but then later as Frank Stanberry yeah well what's also weird because he he lists the the game as in
00:46:23
the section where he's listed movies the that's the I believe it's David Fincher mhm the
00:46:33
David finer movie and but what's weird is and this I think has been kind of blown up through
00:46:43
Reddit is the main character in the game dies in a similar fashion Michael Douglas uh he he dies
00:46:54
from um jumping from the roof of the building through a glass ceiling yeah it's been a long time since I've seen
00:47:01
that movie um 19 97 I actually recall the movie different than that that there is several scenes of somebody committing
00:47:09
suicide by jumping off of a rooftop I don't recall it being who is that Michael Douglas or John Douglas I get
00:47:16
the two Father and Son confused I think it's Michael yeah so a lot of people have referenced that is he talking about
00:47:23
the game and then they take it a step further of was somebody playing a game on him was
00:47:28
he involved in some kind of game well the idea is in 1997 the film follows a man uh who
00:47:35
participates in a scheme which blurs his concept of reality and ends with him jumping from the roof of a building
00:47:42
through a glass ceiling so in the movie he's like extremely wealthy and it's what do you give the man who has
00:47:49
everything for his birthday you give him an experience and the experience is given to him I believed by his brother
00:47:57
which then drives him to Insanity because it's just it's it's it's an insane movie really I
00:48:05
actually feel like if we are going to put meaning to these words and try to decipher what he what he means
00:48:12
here I almost feel like the game it's like he's referencing his life and life being a game right and and so that's
00:48:22
where I think it's weird that the FBI again we're not hearing this from the FBI we're hearing it from a retired
00:48:27
detective who says the FBI said they don't believe the note to be suicidal in nature I actually go the opposite way
00:48:35
and I'm I'm of course no expert but I go the opposite way and I see a note here that looks to me well how many shows do
00:48:41
you have to do until we start just calling you an expert it looks to me like they're like it is suicidal in
00:48:48
nature it's like I could see that you know what I mean it's like he's thanking the people that were involved in his
00:48:53
game and and the game being his life and I I wonder is there something a major event that we are unaware of that took
00:49:03
place within a few years or up to five years before Ray's death because the the choosing of these players should be made
00:49:13
five years younger by the council seems awfully specific it's a very strange line right did did he lose his father
00:49:20
did he lose somebody important to him one one quote that I love and this is an old George Clooney quote
00:49:26
is that the greatest gift that we can give the ones that we love is time and I find that to be such an interesting
00:49:32
quote because it's coming from somebody who's pretty darn wealthy and could give
00:49:36
anybody that he wants a bunch of money and he's right time is one hell of a gift and here we got Ry referencing not
00:49:44
that quote but he States something very similar with a long list of people that he obviously cares about because the
00:49:51
people that are included at the top of this list we have his brother his father his mother his wife his sister so these
00:49:59
are clearly people that he is listing that he loves that he says he believes deserves some type of reward for their
00:50:06
participation and their time in the game he goes on to list a whole bunch of like
00:50:13
inventions and innovations that came about since his be since his game began and then he goes on into some
00:50:22
weird business about the patent and proceeds from all of these items that he list should somehow be transferred to
00:50:32
him and he references several different homes in different countries and continents that he can be found in at
00:50:38
some point and after that it's another list of movies that he that he really likes saying I would love to meet any of
00:50:47
you who helped contribute to these works and he list many movies all of them you
00:50:53
know they're they're interesting movies not just the G game but you have seven in National Treasure The Da Vinci Code
00:51:00
The Matrix one two and three so on and so forth in a specific reference to M9 Shyamalan old
00:51:09
Shyamalan and then he goes on to say I'd also like to single out and there's in the name of somebody
00:51:16
again we have Porter his name referenced a couple of times in this letter and I really can't make or Tales of this
00:51:26
letter Captain I don't and I think that that this letter makes this story that much more confusing in the case that
00:51:34
much more confusing because what is this letter in itself well and like we said Le let's just H hypothetically say the
00:51:44
the Freemason stuff or he started doing research for ideas for screen plays people that are creative can get wrapped
00:51:53
up into that and we have evidence of maybe that turning into reality by not wanting his wife to you know go
00:52:01
somewhere thinks people are breaking into his house or or at least alarms going off in his house is it possible
00:52:10
there was something going on with inside his brain that his friends and family just weren't aware of and that's why I
00:52:16
keep going back to this idea of if he is truly afraid of something why is he not telling people
00:52:24
in his life even on the DL look I'm worried about this situation I'm specifically worried about this
00:52:33
whole thing right here especially his wife who he seems to be concerned of her safety as well and then this note is
00:52:41
left but what is the what is the purpose of this note is it is it meant to be a warning I I that's what I'm I'm getting
00:52:51
at it's not obvious that it's a suicide note that's clear well there's a l lot of actors that have done big movies and
00:52:58
then those movies are connected to the FBI or the CIAA and then there's a lot of conspiracy theorists that go oh well
00:53:06
see um they had Matt Damon do the born Jason Bourne movies and then they bring him into the fold and so he actually is
00:53:16
a government agent now and there's all weird conspiracies of that nature and I just
00:53:24
wonder all these notes are again for some big movie and he's referencing all these movies he likes and wants and
00:53:34
wants to be inspired by this list of movies and here's all these actors that he thinks could play in the movies that
00:53:41
would understand the inner workings of a movie that was based around the Freemasons or whatever like you could
00:53:50
compile this whole thing that seems like a crazy thing and just go this is a web
00:53:56
when you're trying to create something as big as a movie you're you're thinking about characters you're thinking about
00:54:02
their backstory you're thinking about monologues that could be said in the movie you're thinking about sets and
00:54:08
tones and and it could just be a list of uh movies that he likes the tone in them
00:54:14
you know if you watch a you know Goodwill Hunting For example and you realize Gus fan zamp uses it's all like
00:54:21
autumn colors the whole movie is is the list of movies is just stuff he likes about the way it was shot or the
00:54:30
directors if you put it in that context it's like well it all makes sense it could just be research for a movie right
00:54:39
and I think that's why what I'm trying to get at here is that the people that point out that this letter means
00:54:46
something I put a big question mark on that it very likely could mean nothing at all as you're pointing out or how do
00:54:54
we go and look at this and go oh of course he knew that somebody was going to kill him or he knew that he was in
00:55:01
deep trouble and so he left this cryptic letter taped it to the back of his computer as a warning to everybody else
00:55:09
or as a hey this is what happened to me but nobody can figure out or make heads or tals of this letter so it didn't if
00:55:17
if that was the purpose of it he didn't do a very good job of of explaining that to anybody you see what
00:55:25
I mean like it it it to argue that this letter is proof that he was in trouble and people were after him I think that's
00:55:33
a hard argument to make when it's not a clear it's not a clear warning and it's not a clear arrow pointing to who did
00:55:40
him harm yeah and and again this is I mean it sounds like a crazy Theory but I don't know the character of Ray cuz I
00:55:49
wasn't friends with him they didn't show like a bunch of clips of this guy mm I don't don't know was he a gullible guy
00:55:57
or not is it possible that he moves out here is not connecting well with friends
00:56:05
and he's a little gullible and he's talking about some movie he wants to make some conspiracy movie and then his
00:56:12
friends decide to play a trick on him it just like the game right I don't understand why his
00:56:21
friend uh backed away like he did it seems like if it was suicidal or if he thought that there was
00:56:32
something going on with his friend mentally that he would have stuck around and answered as many questions as
00:56:38
possible I also think that if it was suicide that maybe this letter is kind of a cryptic way of leaving some kind of
00:56:48
note but again it's just not obvious so either there was no intent or with this letter itself or it just
00:57:00
it's lost on us if you're going to point to this letter and then then say this letter points more towards suicide
00:57:06
that's when I say I think this letter points more towards there was some kind of psychotic break in this young man and
00:57:14
he lost it and he chose to take his life when his wife was not in town people people have said well he
00:57:23
would have had to have known that Bader Hotel he would have had to have some kind of understanding and he wouldn't
00:57:30
have because he was not from there he was from out of town and I that's where I take it a step further and I go I
00:57:37
don't know that that that is the case I mean I think a big problem with this mystery is that it t it was so long
00:57:44
between the time he went missing to the time that he was found if he chose to take his own life
00:57:51
and chose to purposely not do that at his home so so that his poor wife wouldn't then later find his body maybe
00:57:59
he thought he was jumping into a place that would put him in you know right out there for somebody
00:58:05
to find him almost immediately so she wouldn't have to come home and find him but he just didn't know that building
00:58:13
and didn't know that he was landing and crashing through into a a space that was
00:58:19
for the most part unused right right or or didn't assume he would go through the
00:58:25
roof yeah did did he did he make a make did he make a mistake and think that he was going to land on the street yeah I
00:58:34
do want to go through something else here here Captain real quick and this is from The Baltimore Sun newspaper
00:58:41
Thursday August 6th of this year and this is in response to the release of the ray Rivera episode on Unsolved
00:58:50
Mysteries and I'm just going to read a few selected paragraphs from this but I ask that you bear with
00:58:56
me this article includes an interview with Porter stanbury as well as an interview
00:59:06
with the author that wrote the book about the Unexplained death the body at the badier but it also includes a second
00:59:14
friend of rays and his name is Brad Hopman who said that he knew Ray Rivera since childhood and remained close with
00:59:22
him up to his death he also believes the story has been Twisted quote this is a real conversation the world can have
00:59:31
about mental illness and help people get help when they need it end quote he goes
00:59:37
on to say and it turned out it turned into a murder mystery where they're accusing people of being
00:59:44
involved later in the article Stanberry says he has received death threats and his family has been harassed online he
00:59:52
said he's even been questioned by friends and potential business partners stansbery says quote it's horrific you
00:59:59
can't even imagine what it's like to tell people I had nothing to do with my friend's death then we have when Ray
01:00:06
Rivera went missing Stanbery said he hired a private investigator offered a reward and personally helped look for
01:00:13
Rivera once the body was found Stanberry said we were all sad and shocked by the
01:00:19
fact that Ray killed himself but once we saw all the facts and his financial pressure
01:00:25
it wasn't much of a mystery in the show retired Baltimore homicide detective Michael Bear and Rivera's wife say that
01:00:34
after Rivera's body was found stanbury refused to return calls from investigators and put out a quote gag
01:00:41
order on employees to keep them from Talking Stanbery says quote it's a complete lie it's not a matter of
01:00:49
opinion it's a lie he said only the employees were told to refer media inquir iies to a spokesperson right
01:00:56
which you've said is very common he said he personally spoke with a detective on
01:01:01
June 23rd 2006 so where this gets a little convoluted is remember this is after detective bear was moved to
01:01:10
another division so on Unsolved Mysteries detective bear is saying this man Stanberry wouldn't talk to me Stanberry
01:01:18
saying I did speak to a detective it was just a different detective right bear was moved in it's not any type of
01:01:26
conspiracy because bear did he he says look I did not agree with the police findings that this was suicide and I
01:01:34
think there's a good amount of questions here so I applaud him for going the extra mile to really get to the bottom
01:01:39
of this but it's not a conspiracy that he went against the grain and got moved to another division he requested to be
01:01:47
moved to this new task force that had formed and the way that those things generally work is you apply for a
01:01:53
position or or a department change and it takes some time for that to go in effect so he gets moved now we have
01:02:02
later in the article where Allison Rivera has said the call came from this is the the last phone call the call came
01:02:09
from the switchboard of Agora publishing and the specific caller could not be determined Agora a global publishing
01:02:17
company headquartered in Baltimore has several subsidiary companies including stansberry's and at the time all calls
01:02:25
were routed through a main switchboard a police spokeswoman on Tuesday this would
01:02:31
have been August 4th of this year said the call came from an owned subsidiary company of agore publishing so when you
01:02:41
read reports that say it came from Stanberry and Associates that's not what the police's
01:02:48
position is publicly on this they're not saying it didn't come from Stanberry Associates they're just saying it came
01:02:55
from a subsidiary of this parent company mhm so his friend talks to law enforcement he gets a detective to look
01:03:05
for his friend he puts up a award now you have this other friend coming out saying that Ray had some mental issues
01:03:12
mental health issues but couldn't he still figure out who made the call to Ray and what that call was about
01:03:25
yeah because because I also think when he talks about these Financial pressures he would know more than anybody because
01:03:32
he's the one that had his friend come out there and so he gets there and it's not working out but was it not working
01:03:39
out even more than we're LED on to believe because we we also don't have records and or statements of all there
01:03:47
was all this credit card debt and there was student loans and there was the house they were upside down on the
01:03:53
mortgage we just don't have any reports of that right we again we just have this
01:03:58
Stanbery character saying this publicly all these years later they haven't been in their house very long so I couldn't
01:04:04
imagine that they had much in the way of equity and I've seen many references to
01:04:11
Allison's and Ray's financials online I don't know where that those statements and reports are coming from
01:04:20
so I don't care to bother to report them here because it could just be some some
01:04:25
twerp in his basement typing that up and putting it out as fact I haven't seen it
01:04:30
published anywhere by anybody that's credible the article though cites a lot of really interesting things and if if I
01:04:38
can I'll continue here if you'll allow me I'll continue a little bit longer says Stanberry said that Ray Rivera had
01:04:45
also asked him previously if he had if he was in leadership of the Freemasons which Stanberry said he thought was a
01:04:53
joke he said when Rivera's family and friends were searching for him Rivera's wife told him that the Saturday before
01:05:01
he went missing Ry was morose and would not get out of bed she told me she was very worried about his mental state at
01:05:11
the time he disappeared stanbury said quote I'm not the only friend Ry approached and said these things that
01:05:18
were very odd now back to the other friend the second friend that we referenced earlier Brad Hopman
01:05:24
Ray's childhood friend said not long before his death Ry repeatedly asked him about being a member of the Freemasons
01:05:33
and discussing the film Eyes Wide Shut Hopman who also worked for Stanberry at one time but says they were not close
01:05:43
said the week before his death Rivera asked to be able to visit his top floor apartment in the Jersey City in Jersey
01:05:52
City Rivera had a key to the place but then returned it said quote he was acting really really weird that is a
01:06:00
quote from Brad Hopman in a separate interview that I read with employees and people that worked with
01:06:10
this Porter stanbury yeah they said that it was pretty common for Porter who as you pointed out earlier pretty
01:06:19
successful it was pretty standard practice for him to hire people that necessarily didn't have a background for
01:06:25
the position that he was offering them but they were people that he knew for most of his life right and that it was
01:06:32
people that he trusted you know he needed to put these people in a position of trust where where they would have his
01:06:38
back he would have theirs and therefore he valued that trust level more than them being educated or experienced in
01:06:47
that specific area of work right one thing that I found really interesting and and this goes along with some of the
01:06:56
opinions be it yours in mind that we have shared throughout the years in regards to the Brian Schaefer case
01:07:02
listen closely brotman remember brotman is the author of the 2018 book about Rivera's
01:07:12
death she was a resident of the badier she said that the Netflix show interviewed her for hours and that she
01:07:22
told them the roof was easily accessible not at all difficult to task to reach as
01:07:29
the show asserted mhm in her book she explores the various theories and concludes that Rivera likely had a
01:07:36
mental break and jumped from the roof she says quote I think if they had included my interviews it would have
01:07:43
closed down a lot of the speculation because it would have been obvious that a lot of avenues and angles had already
01:07:50
been explored at length end quote St Berry said the case is being sensationalized quote I think what's
01:07:58
really sad about this is there are people in Hollywood who would do anything to craft a story to get
01:08:05
attention even when it comes to destroying someone's reputation and trying to sensationalize the tragedy of
01:08:13
a death of a 32-year-old man end quote I find that awfully interesting that we have the woman that wrote a book about
01:08:22
this case that lives in the building and says you know what I I she's saying they
01:08:28
kind of conveniently left out my interviews because I was saying it was easy for someone to access the roof well
01:08:35
just like I've told you when I went and interviewed all those security guards at
01:08:40
the Ugly Tuna and they go of course there's blind spots and he could have got out of here without being on camera
01:08:45
yeah and you go well why has it been reported for the last five years or 10 years or whatever that it was impossible
01:08:53
it's because it makes it a better story it's a little more juicy so you have here a situation and one thing I want to
01:09:00
point out too remember we said that when they when they transferred the badier hotel when it went from being a hotel to
01:09:07
being renovated into Condominiums hotel hotel that there were still some portions of the building that were not
01:09:15
privately owned you know these are common spaces and some spaces that were in fact open to the public right the
01:09:21
badier hotel as It's oddly called even all these years later has a space that is called the
01:09:28
13th floor well it's kind of a famous bar so it's open to the public for people to go up all the way up to be at
01:09:38
the 13th floor and have some cocktails and drinks up there well that's not too many floors far away from either the top
01:09:45
or the 11th floor ledge where it's believed that he would have had to have jumped M so I think it's it's a weird
01:09:53
situation of what the story is kind of missing that we're hoping to fill in here is that one yes the Rooftop in the
01:10:02
ledge were probably more likely accessible than what we have a standard you know than what we have an
01:10:10
understanding of so far so what it sounds like here Captain is that the areas where he possibly could have
01:10:17
jumped from were easily accessible mhm that there is a reasonable explanation why the security footage does not exist
01:10:28
to this day and we have Engineers who say that it is physically and mathematically possible for somebody to
01:10:35
make it out that far horizontally if they're traveling at a speed that is is easily attained by a man who's in good
01:10:45
physical condition MH so I rule on the side and well I lean on the side of suicide here unfortunately with Ray
01:10:55
Rivera's case the question I still have at the end of the day even with these answers that we've tried to provide is
01:11:03
why do we have a situation where no one has ever come forward and said I was the
01:11:09
person that called Ray on that day that he disappeared I think one of the reasons why people have a hard time
01:11:16
believing this is suicide is because there wasn't a lot of signs of depression and so normally when people
01:11:23
think of suicides they think of that the individual was depressed again is it possible that he
01:11:31
was having some kind of mental break and not seeing things as clearly as he once
01:11:38
did whatever happened to Ry was obviously very tragic and it's a horrible story to have to tell it's a
01:11:45
horrible case to have to try to sift through and make heads or Tales of what possibly happened to this young man who
01:11:51
had his whole life ahead of him and as said was loved by everyone around him again captain my question goes to if
01:12:00
these other persons who are saying we believe this was a suicide we're backing the police's theory of suicide this is
01:12:09
what was going on in Ray's life at the time and it's a sad situation that we cannot have a discussion about mental
01:12:16
health about mental illness and work toward helping people again why do we not have the person coming
01:12:26
forward and saying I was the person that called Ray that afternoon on May [Music]
01:12:40
16 seems like everybody has a opinion or a theory about this case if you have one
01:12:47
go to True Crim garage.com and leave that for us on the blog Colonel do we have any recommended
01:12:54
reading for this week let's do some recommended listening there Captain it's a good week I think to go check out some
01:13:01
good music and you can do that by checking out the captain's music at Captain fat hands.com or go to True
01:13:08
Crime garage.com and click on the captain's anchor anchors away there Captain I also have a comedy CD coming
01:13:15
out it's called I have a lot of jokes but I don't know if my co-host is listening all right join us back here in
01:13:21
the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't [Music] litter you can live out your Master Chef dreams
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when you find a professional on Angie to tackle your dream kitchen remodel connect with skilled
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professionals to get all your home projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that