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[music] [music] Heat. Heat. >> [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
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you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host, Nick, and with me as always is a man that very
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recently claimed to know a lot of mothers. [laughter] Ladies and gentlemen, lock up your moms.
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He is the captain. Thank you. Thank [music] you. Thank you. It's good to be seen and it's good to see you.
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Tonight we are drinking White Witch IPA by Black Diamond Brewing Company. Garage
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Grade four out of five bottle caps. We've been very lucky lately, Captain. It's The weather has been beautiful. I
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call this IPA weather. Sit on the back porch and have a nice beer. Get your white witch on. And we can do so because
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some of our best friends filled up the fridge for us this week. First up, we have Karina in Newport, Rhode Island.
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Karina says, "Thanks for covering the case that I requested. This round is on me." Nice gym. Next up in beautiful
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Parts Unknown, we have Kelly Nasim, and Samantha. Parts Unknown. You know, the kids are calling it PU for short.
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[laughter] Real quick note, uh yeah, we had a guy peeing on the tennis courts yesterday.
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>> [music] >> Uh we can't confirm or deny if that was Nick or not, >> but we've we've unleashed a full
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investigation investigation and we will take the appropriate measures uh to make
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sure this does not happen again. >> And a big cheers to Melody up in Nova Scotia. [music]
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>> Let's go out to Wisconsin. We have a very nice person in Wisconsin, >> Cheese Head
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>> Alyssa, who says this is on behalf of her dear friend Leanne. Leanne is celebrating a birthday this month. She
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loves the captain. So, happy birthday from the garage. >> You cheese head. You crazy cheese head.
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>> Next stop, let's [music] say thank you to Jamie in Arizona. And last but not least, we have a round from the Trails
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and Tap House in Snowomish, Washington. >> I'm sure you said that right. >> Possibly. So, thanks to everybody for
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filling up the fridge this week. And if you want to buy us around for next week's show, go to true crimegar.com and
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click on the donate button. And make sure you follow us on all social media, true crime garage.
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>> Speaking of which, we're getting a lot of questions about the old episodes because we did our top 10 recently. Uh
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the old episodes, we did a season 1, we did a season 2, so those would be episodes 1 through 40. They're available
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in the iTunes store. You got to look for episodes and albums, uh things of that nature. So check out the old episodes.
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They're on our store page at trueimeg.com as well. All right, that's enough of the business. Let's [music]
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get to the troll. Everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
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[music] >> [music] [music] >> Yes, we've uh this is Orange County Utilities Emergency Dispatch. We found a
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human skull. >> Oh my gosh. >> I know. Uh we got a is it a meter leader? >> Yes.
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>> I'm going to speak right now with a representative from our field services facilities. Hi. And uh everything is
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recorded. Here he is. >> How are you doing? uh skull of a Disney believes is human.
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>> What's the location? >> It's right off of Suburban and Chickasaw in the Kelly Anthony area. Right by the
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>> Oh. Um do you have a specific address for me or not? >> No, it's right by the school if you take
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>> Suburban and in Golden. >> What? Suburban and Chickasaw. >> Chickasaw. I'm sorry.
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>> Yeah. And the school is right there. I can't think of the name of the school.
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Just go right straight down. It dead ends right into the woods. >> It'll be on the east side of uh
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Chickasaw. Suburban. >> Um East side of Chickasaw. And what is your um party's name that we're going to
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meet with? >> He's not touching this, I hope. Okay. >> No, he's a um >> he's a meter reader.
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>> Meter reader. >> Yeah. And I'll just tell him to stay at that location and just stay away from
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everything. >> Okay. Um and if you can try to stress to him to please not draw attention to the
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area. [music] You heard at the end of yesterday's show an interview that took place just 2 days
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before this 911 call. Now, this 911 call is from a man named Roy Krunk. This took
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place on December 11th, 2008. Roy went into the woods off of Suburban Drive and he found something and he poked at it
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and then he calls his supervisor who in turns calls 911 because Roy had found a skull. Police rope off the scene. The
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medical examiner, her name is Jan Gavala, >> uh Fami Malik. >> No, thank God not in this case. Uh for
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those of you who watch true crime shows, she is better known as Dr. G Medical Examiner. Um, I don't know if her show
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is current. I've seen it a few times, but she did have a show uh called Dr. G Medical Examiner, but this falls in her
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jurisdiction. Dr. G describes the crime scene as such that a body was placed in a wooded area about 20 ft off of the
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road. Now, there are a lot of plants and weeds and trees in this area, but in this spot, they find two tangled up and
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torn up black trash bags that are grouped with this large gray canvas bag. She says there are some bones that were
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in the bag. There are also some bones that were scattered amongst the vegetation. And then next to that there
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is the skull that Roy had seen. It's obvious to police when they show up and they start canvasing the area that
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they're probably looking at the remains of a child. >> Mhm. And then and this is also in the
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vicinity of the Anthony household. >> Yes. It's approximately a quarter mile from the Anthony household. Now, this
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case could not get any stranger. But here here's one very strange thing about this case. Roy Kronck had actually
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reported seeing something suspicious at this very same location on several other
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occasions. Now, it's been reported that he has called this in twice before, and it's also been reported that he's called
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it in three times before. I was unable to to verify which is the more accurate statement. But when you say that he's
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called this in three times, >> we're talking about this particular skull. >> He's he's stating that he has called in
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that there was something suspicious in the woods. And I'll kind of take you through that. On the first occasion,
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Kron says that he was there with co-workers. Now, Kron is a meter reader, and [clears throat] he and two other
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meter readers had finished their checks early on that day. >> Big shout out to all the meter readers
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out there. had had had some buddies that did that job for a long time. >> Well, and I don't know how this works,
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but they basically say that they finished the day a lot earlier than expected and rather than going back to
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whatever facility that they work out of, they decided to take a a bit of a break
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and just kind of hang out in this section. Now, if you look at where this body was found on a on a Google map,
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>> um it's you you basically have a big neighborhood and then you have this road. This is suburban road that that
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comes from behind the kind of behind the neighborhood there and it kind of goes off into this deadend area. So it would
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be an easy spot for people to kind of just hang out and and and you know shoot the breeze after work.
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>> Well, you see this a lot with like housing developments. The there's a road that's a dead end that's really going to
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probably lead to more development down the line. >> That's kind of what what I'm assuming
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I'm looking at. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so the three of them decide to hang out there. They say
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they're there for about an hour or so just, you know, chit cchatting and smoking cigarettes and such.
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>> Uh while hanging out, Roy Krunk goes off to relieve himself, uh peeing in the
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woods, basically. Uh he says that he tells his co-workers that he thinks he saw either a bone or a skull in in this
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wooded area. >> Mhm. >> So he he goes over and he tells his friends about this. Well, the three of
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them walk back to this location so that Kron can point out the skull or the bones that he thought that he saw
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before, you know, and what ends up happening is they spot a rather large dead snake. I think it was like four or
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five foot long snake that they saw there. >> And well, this distracts the three men.
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>> Don't live in Florida. >> This distracts the three men because then they're kind of checking out this
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this snake. And I don't know if if Roy got confused if he thought, you know, well, maybe part of the bone that I saw
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or whatever white object I saw was just part of the snake. But what ends up happening is we know that we can verify
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some of Royy's story here because of two situations. First off, the men with their cell phones start taking pictures
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of the snake and they show these to other co-workers, you know, that later that day or the next day. So they leave
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the spot that day, right? Well, Roy Krunk late that night, he decides to call the sheriff's department and report
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what he has seen in the woods. >> So they dispatch an officer out to the area, but we got to keep in mind, it's
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it's very dark out now, and this is a wooded area. The officer looks around and does not see bones or a skull or
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anything. No remains at all. Uh, and keep in mind we also have a situation where Roy Kron is not there to point
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this object out to the officer. He calls it in, the officer goes out, checks the
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area, nothing is found. >> So, that's his first call or first attempt. What was his second attempt?
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Well, one thing I want to point out here, captain, is we heard on that 911 call when they're calling in this body,
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and it you heard that a bit of confusion between the caller and the the the dispatcher of, you know, kind of
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pinpointing this location. So, my guess is that >> just like we said with with it being
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dark out and without Roy being there, there was she probably the officer in her defense was probably just looking in
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the wrong location. >> I don't think that that somebody wasn't doing their job. They just didn't know
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the right location to look. Now, what ends up happening though after Roy follows up, you know, he wants to know
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what did you find anything, >> right? >> And he is told that, you know what you should do? We're going to you should
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call this in again. Uh, but make sure you call it in when it's still light outside so we can get an officer over
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there to look around and find the exact location and take a look at what you think you have seen
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>> or possibly meet the officer out there. >> Yeah. So, I believe it's the next day
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that Roy Kron, he then calls it in again, and this is right after his work shift. Um, and at this point, an officer
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meets Kron at the location. But what happens here, Captain, is this is this is according to Roy Krunk.
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>> Mhm. >> He states that the officer seemed agitated, that the officer didn't seem
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very thrilled about the whole call itself. He said it was raining that day and he didn't know if it was because of
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the story about the snake. He told the officer, "Yep, we saw this giant snake that was dead there."
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>> Can't blame him for that. >> He says that he he didn't get the vibe that the officer wanted to go into the
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woods. Again, it could have been the rain, could have been the the snake, whatever.
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>> But but what ends up happening >> just having a bad day, right? >> Well, what ends up happening, according
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to Roy Krunk, is that the officer does go into the woods. He's in there for a brief amount of time. He comes out, he's
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fairly rude to Roy and tells him that he's mistaken. He's seen nothing. There's nothing there. And then the
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officer goes about his business. >> Now, later we would learn that there was a different story from the officer. The
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the officer says that the two of them went into the woods together and all he found was a what he described as a bag
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containing um like debris like like lawn clippings and leaves and things of that
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nature. Um, the situation here though is nothing is found. All of this takes place in August of 2008. In August,
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>> the body's found in December of 2008. So, it's not until December 11th that a
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third or fourth call is placed to law enforcement and that's when they go out and find the remains that that very same
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day. >> Well, this is you, like we said, this is huge news all over the country and
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especially in this area. This is huge, right? >> So, you got this meter reader that's out
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in that neighborhood probably often tells you, "Hey, look, I saw a skull. I don't know if it was human or not. Come
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check it out." >> Mhm. >> And then nobody kind of really follows up and people are still talking about
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this missing girl. It probably weighed on him. And so then he was like, "Well, I got to go back out and look again for
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myself." >> Yeah. >> I'm going to find it. And and I applaud him, you know, because if if he didn't
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do that, if he wouldn't have put the extra effort in, uh maybe never found. Well, you know what I'm wondering, too?
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Is it maybe he thought, "All right, two officers have been to the location. They
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tell me that I'm mistaken. Does he just take their word?" You know what I mean? And that maybe is why so much time
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elapsed between the actual discovery? Does he just say, "Well, I called it in twice and and nobody nobody saw what I
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saw." And then you know how these meter readers work. They're not in the same neighborhood every day of the week. He
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was probably out there a few months later and thought to himself, "You know what? I'm still convinced I saw
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something over there." >> Oh, yeah. You saw what you saw. >> He goes into the woods. He says to
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relieve himself. I I actually think he went into the woods looking for what he thinks that he saw. Now, he would come
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under some speculation because what comes out very quickly in this situation is, you know, there's a lot of push back
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from the community onto law enforcement. They're saying, "Well, this was called in three times at least."
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>> Yeah, there was definitely a ball drop >> and and there was there was this body
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that was found there. How do you miss that? And I don't know if this was leaked from the law enforcement angle or
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if this was just something in the media, but there was some speculation that maybe Roy Krunk had this information and
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because there was this growing reward that maybe he sat on this information as the reward grew.
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>> I personally don't think that that's the situation. I think he saw something in
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the woods. He was convinced of it. He was talked out of it by law enforcement because I don't think they did anything
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wrong. I think they just they didn't see what he saw and he happened to be back in the neighborhood and he decided I'll
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tell them that I went in there to relieve myself. But I'm actually back there looking for what I what I'm pretty
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convinced that I saw. >> Mhm. And did you see I mean you saw video of him at at the trial. Right.
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>> Correct. >> I mean I to me he comes across as a very standup guy. >> I I don't know much about him but his
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story is very believable to me. Now what what we end up finding here is the the situation is this that
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>> it's a crime scene. >> Yes. And Dr. G states that uh she believes that animals had moved some of
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the bones. >> Um they discover that there is no tissue at all on this on this body on the
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remains. It's completely uh decomposed. Uh the thing with that is this is going to make it very hard to determine the
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cause of death because the body sat there for 6 months. So the other situation is the jawbone is still
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connected to the skull which normally would not happen. Usually once all that soft tissue I has has decayed from the
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body uh the the jawbone would drop off. The situation here though is they discover duct tape that is still holding
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basically the jawbone to the skull. >> Mhm. >> Now again like we said because of the
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level of decomposition that has taken place. It's very hard to determine the cause of
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death. >> Right. So we have a skeletor remain. >> Skeleton. >> Skeleton remain. Skeletor. What is this?
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He >> he's a bad villain. >> No. So we have a skeleton remain. We have this bag, this uh canvas type bag.
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>> Uh we have black trash bags found at the scene. >> And we have duct tape which is over the
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skeleton's mouth holding the jaw >> in place. That's what we have. >> Correct. And so they are unable to
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determine the cause of death because of the level of decomposition. However, they do rule the death a homicide. Well,
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some people >> because let's be clear, the the the size of the skeleton is is the size of a a
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child. >> Mhm. >> And so, you know, however it however the child died by having the skeleton just
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sitting out in the middle of nowhere, that's that's all the proof you need to know that there's this is homicide.
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>> Well, thank you for saying that because some people have had a big problem with
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this, stating that if if you can't determine the cause of death, how can you rule it a homicide? And it's exactly
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as you said, we have we have a body that was concealed that somebody put it there
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so that people may not find it or that a certain amount of time would elapse before it was found. The other thing
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that we know is that we have the trash bags, we have the canvas bag and the duct tape. All things that you probably
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shouldn't be finding with a body that that would have an accidental death. Mhm. >> Um so again this is furthermore you know
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it takes 8 days but after DNA testing on the 19th they reveal that this is in fact the body of the little missing girl
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Kaye Anthony which is very sad. So on top of that, you have more cause to believe that it's a homicide because you
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have a girl that went missing, was not reported as such for an extended period of time,
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>> 31 days, >> and then she's been missing for 6 months before they find her body. It's pretty
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obvious to me this has got homicide written all over. >> Yeah, this is kind of no duh.
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>> So now we've found the body of the missing little girl, right? And it's been identified as Kaye Anthony. And we
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have this situation. We already know that Casey, the mother, is currently in jail at this time, right?
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>> And suspected of the murder of her daughter because the daughter had not been found. Now, the situation is this.
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>> The body is found a quarter of a mile from their home. It's you could pull out
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of their driveway and you would go down the street, make a right-hand turn, and basically you could pull something out
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of your trunk and walk it 20 ft into the woods. And that's that's the body. That's how it would take you 3 to 5
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minutes to to do that act and then to return home. You could do this under the cover of night and probably nobody would
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see you. Again, if you look at the way that this is situated on on a map here, there's not any reason for there to be
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traffic going through this location. There's not houses back there that I could see. Um, so
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>> or if you wanted to, you know, walk it down yourself, it take you probably 5 to
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10 minutes. Mhm. The thing here is so now we got this mother who looks she's already looked guilty
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>> even with your little troll legs. She could do it in 5 to 10 minutes. >> She's already looked guilty before the
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body's found. Now she's looking especially guilty. And we have a situation where we have her parents
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visiting her in jail and and talking with her. And you know I what is there's one famous clip out there where there
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there's some interaction between her and her mother and it doesn't Cindy say something she kind of starts off the
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conversation by saying uh we miss you uh we we we forgive you. We believe you. >> Yeah. She says I uh I forgive uh we
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forgive everything you said and we forgive anything that you you did. >> You did. And this must be shortly after
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this body is found or at least identified as Kaye Anthony. >> Mhm. Yeah. This roughly around that
00:21:05
time. >> But a very strange interaction between the two of them. And it it's almost
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like, you know, I really get the feeling that Cindy was hanging on to hope that that this really wasn't happening, that
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this whole this whole reality show that's taking place on the news that's about her daughter and her granddaughter
00:21:24
that it might not really be happening. or that maybe maybe Kaye is out there somewhere and she's safe. She's holding
00:21:31
on to hope or is she holding on to the hope that her daughter's not guilty of such a horrible crime?
00:21:37
>> Well, no. I think if you look, if you look back 2 days before the body's found, she's sitting there saying, "Hey,
00:21:42
look, you know, Nancy Grace is condemning my, you know, has already convicted my daughter. This is
00:21:48
>> top mom. >> Top mom. Well, top mom. Um, anyways, it she's convicted her already and the
00:21:55
truth is going to come out when Kaye comes home and guess what? Your granddaughter's dead.
00:22:02
>> Mhm. >> And I'm sorry, but you're the spawn of you, your daughter is most likely guilty of that,
00:22:14
>> right? >> And that has to hit you pretty quick as parents. >> Mhm. And you know, especially for
00:22:23
these are not normal grandparents, right? >> Oh, they're not. >> No, no, they're not. They're not normal
00:22:30
in the sense Well, I mean, some of the stuff they say is just crazy. But they're not normal in the sense that
00:22:37
that the these were more Kayle's parents than they were grandparents. >> Yes. >> You know, I see what you're saying.
00:22:46
there. This child lived with them, right? This child lived with them every day. You know, the mother of this child
00:22:57
troll Casey troll. You know, she li who knows who the father is, right? I think she lied about
00:23:05
all that [ __ ] And and who was the father? Who who was the acting father? George Anthony, right?
00:23:13
>> Mhm. those were her parents for all you know the the term mother and father that
00:23:20
is just you know that is just some [ __ ] you know you're you're not a mother or father unless the action you
00:23:29
have the actions to back it up. So just because you had a kid for this is for all the deadbeat dads out there deadbeat
00:23:36
mothers out there just because you have a kid doesn't mean you're a mother. Yeah.
00:23:40
>> Right. It's the actions. It's the raising of that kid. >> Yeah. >> You know, so
00:23:47
now they have to deal with the fact that this girl is gone. Your daughter, technically your granddaughter is gone
00:23:56
and she's not coming back. And you have to deal with that guilt and all the all the questioning and all
00:24:03
that stuff. But now you're faced with reality that your your daughter's been lying to
00:24:10
you this whole [ __ ] time. Well, and according to the defense according to Casey Anony's
00:24:17
defense that the the the parents had two very different reactions to the finding
00:24:24
of the body because keep in mind there were eight days that passed before they through DNA evidence, you know,
00:24:30
announced that it was in fact Kaye Anthony, >> right? And during this time, the defense
00:24:35
states that George was handling it very almost very policemanlike. You know what
00:24:42
I mean? He's he's a fax guy. You know, you know, with most officers, there's not a lot of gray with them. It's a lot
00:24:48
of black and white. >> And the situation here is he's he knows, man. He's he's going, "This body was
00:24:54
found so close to my home. >> I know the last time I saw this little girl. this and and he's basically going
00:25:01
into the mode of, well, we need to step up this investigation now and find out what happened,
00:25:07
>> right? We need to >> This is this is before Kayle's identified, >> right? >> The mother Cindy at the same time is
00:25:14
saying, "Well, there's a lot of kids that that live in this area, and on top of that, I think that I overheard that
00:25:21
some another kid has gone missing somewhere in the area. It's probably not Kaye." They had two completely opposite
00:25:27
reactions to this situation. Now, in their defense, in in Cindy's defense, I don't want to harp on her too badly
00:25:34
because she's gone through something nobody ever should have to go through, but in her defense, I I don't know how I
00:25:41
would react to any of this information myself. I I you know, we all want to hold out hope at some point. Um, it's
00:25:49
strange to me that you can have people two people living under the same roof with completely different reactions
00:25:55
though. >> Well, and those people being, you know, married individuals. I mean, >> or married couple, I should say, married
00:26:01
individuals. Married couple. >> Let's get let's get back into this uh right after this quick beer break.
00:26:13
>> [music] [music] >> All right, and we're back. >> Cheers, everybody. >> All right, Captain. What we need to do
00:26:27
here is we need to fill in some blanks because yesterday when we were talking, we went through the situation of uh the
00:26:34
last time that Kaye was seen. And then we have 31 days pass before she's reported missing, before Casey is
00:26:42
arrested, but we have a lot of blank space in there during that 30 days. And we have some information as to what was
00:26:48
going on during that 30 days because well, some of us has seen pictures of this on on TV and on the news. But
00:26:55
furthermore, we have statements given from the Anthony family. This uh being George and Cindy, but also including
00:27:02
things that her brother Lee has said. Uh, we also have statements by Casey Anony's friends and her boyfriend.
00:27:09
>> Right. And now we're we're investigating this as a homicide now. Now that the
00:27:14
body is found, >> so we have to dive into these actions a little bit more. >> Yes. And so the last time that it is
00:27:23
agreed upon that that Kaye Anthony was seen alive was June 16th, 2008. This is at the Anthony family home. Now, on that
00:27:34
day, Cindy Anthony testified that she left for work a few minutes before 7:00 a.m. Now, while this was while everybody
00:27:43
was still asleep at the house, at 7:52 a.m., we start to see some activity from Casey Anony's password protected account
00:27:52
on MySpace, >> and she is re doing some kind of research for shotgirl costumes. Um and
00:28:01
this is believed to be for Tony Lazaro. Remember that's her boyfriend at the time.
00:28:06
>> Yeah, he has um you know these nightclub type events that that he goes to and she
00:28:13
is going to be a part of that. Now, it's been reported that she might have been managing um some of these shot girls or
00:28:20
or assisting in some manner with that. >> Um or she could have just been looking
00:28:24
for some kind of outfit to wear to to the nightclub. Um, at 7:56 a.m. we see uh more more computer uh activity. Uh,
00:28:35
this is being in some chat rooms. At 12:50 p.m. Now, this is according to George Anthony. Uh he states that Kaye
00:28:44
departed with Casey in their vehicle in the Sunfire around 12:50 p.m. Um and he goes on to describe,
00:28:53
you know, he can even describe some of the outfit that that both of them were wearing, right? Uh stating that there
00:28:58
were backpacks on their shoulders. Um and he is under the impression that that Casey is going to go off to work and
00:29:07
Kaye is going to go to the baby babysitter's house, >> right? So, yeah, she's going to go to
00:29:12
Zany n the Xany the nanny's house and that that Casey's actually in work attire is what he claims.
00:29:18
>> Now, at 1:39 p.m. there's activity associated with Casey's uh instant messenger and MySpace and Facebook
00:29:26
accounts. Uh on the home computer, uh the last browser activity session is at 1:42 p.m. At 1:44, Casey calls her
00:29:37
friend Amy. Uh remember now this is Amy that is uh living with her ex-boyfriend that she supposedly lived with for for
00:29:46
some period. >> The one she stole some checks from. >> Yeah. Yeah. That that good friend.
00:29:50
>> Um at 2:21 p.m. the call with Amy ends. And at 2:30 p.m. George Anthony testified that he left the home at this
00:30:00
time to go to work. Now, at 2:49 p.m., Casey Anony's cell phone connects with a tower nearest the home, and the Anthony
00:30:09
the Anthony family's desktop computer is activated by somebody using a password protected account uh for Casey Anthony.
00:30:19
>> At 2:51 p.m. on the home computer, there is a Google search made for the term of
00:30:25
foolproof suffocation. Uh the word suffocation was misspelled. Um, but whoever was searching this uh clicks on
00:30:34
some articles regarding foolproof suffocation or ways to die, >> right? And in this article, they talk
00:30:41
about black trash bags. They talk about duct tape. >> Mhm. >> Different things of that nature.
00:30:47
>> Then shortly after that, we see more activity on MySpace. Um, at 2, just before 3:00, Casey answers uh a phone
00:30:57
call from Jesse. Uh this this guy says that he describes this conversation as abnormal. Uh Casey stated to him that
00:31:06
her parents were divorcing and that she would need to find a a new place to live.
00:31:12
>> Mhm. >> Uh at 3:04 p.m. Casey disconnected the phone call from Je from Jesse uh to take
00:31:20
an incoming call from her father, George. Now, according to according to the trial records, uh this was a 20
00:31:30
26-second call uh from her father, and he says that well, we got some conflicting stories on this.
00:31:38
>> Of course, we do >> because what what the defense is going to try to tell us >> is that basically what happened is
00:31:45
George called Casey as soon as he got to work. And the reason that it's such a short call is that he was basically
00:31:53
saying, you know, I took care of everything. Hint hint. You know, that kind of situation. Um
00:32:00
>> that's what the defense says. >> Yes. Basically telling Casey that he had disposed of the body. Uh warning her not
00:32:06
to tell her mother about the child's death and that he had disposed of the body on his way into work that day.
00:32:12
>> Mhm. >> Um what are your feelings about this phone call here, Captain? because it is
00:32:17
very strange to me. First of all, we we have a situation where Casey supposedly left the house at 12:50, but we see some
00:32:25
activity on the computer that one might expect that to be more of Casey Anthony type activity, right? Um it was a shared
00:32:33
computer. It was it was the family computer. >> Yeah. But if somebody doesn't log out of
00:32:38
something, you know, if [clears throat] I have my computer open and there's Facebook open and a bunch of other stuff
00:32:42
open, um, and you're clicking around and maybe exiting it out of some programs, I
00:32:48
I don't know if that would count as the same activity cuz I'm not an IT expert. >> Mhm.
00:32:52
>> But so it could be somebody clicking around cuz George was there at the house
00:32:56
or it's possible that she left for a minute and came right back and George didn't notice. That is possible as well.
00:33:02
>> Yeah. I I think my thoughts are one of two things. Either George is lying and
00:33:08
that the two of them didn't leave or maybe mistaken. Maybe the two of them didn't leave at 12:50 like he thought
00:33:14
they did. Or two, that exactly as you said, it's it's a shared computer. Maybe he's just clicking and closing out of
00:33:21
some things so he can check his personal email. I I I really don't know how those
00:33:26
things work. >> Right. But let's talk about what the major problem with this case is. is it's
00:33:30
very similar to like Adnan Sed's case. >> I hope I said that right or I'm gonna get a bunch.
00:33:36
>> You're very close. >> Exactly right. >> You're exactly right. The one of the issues is same with that case is because
00:33:46
it's 31 days before you even report the child missing. >> Mhm. >> And now everybody's trying to figure out
00:33:54
when is the last time we saw this individual. >> Yeah. And then once you kind of figure
00:34:00
out that date, because here's a couple things. Casey Anthony claims the 9th, the parents then say, "No, it's the
00:34:08
16th." And and at some point the the uh on one of the phone calls, um the mother says
00:34:18
it was the 7th or something like she gives a whole different date. So, the fact that they have to start looking
00:34:26
back and yeah, we have these records, but as far as when George left, you know, look, I can't I can't buy any of
00:34:34
that stuff. And the fact of the matter is we got three we got three liars, right?
00:34:41
>> Yeah. >> And there's constantly times that they're lying about stuff. Now, a lot of
00:34:46
people would say, "Well, don't throw George under the bus. What was he lying about?"
00:34:50
George and his wife, they separated for a while. And one of the reasons why they
00:34:55
separated was because he was lying to his wife and got in a bunch of financial trouble and he was being dishonest. So
00:35:02
there's evidence of him being a liar. Sydney is constantly lying about stuff, constantly covering up her tracks,
00:35:11
constantly lying to help her her daughter. And then and then obviously Casey Anthony, we know she's lying
00:35:19
because she lied for for 31 days to her parents. >> Yeah. >> So I can't believe anything that they're
00:35:25
saying. All I can go on is by work records. And so if if George clocked into to his job, I believe that.
00:35:34
>> Why did he call? I don't know. I'm not going to believe the defense over or over over George. And and what we do
00:35:42
know is George is at work at X time, the mother's at work early in the morning. The only person really home is Casey,
00:35:51
>> right? >> And Kaye. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and the thing here is we, you know, with the Adnan case, you
00:35:57
know, they one thing they bring up when you're talking about trying to remember what happened a week ago or two weeks
00:36:02
ago or in this case 31 days ago, uh, sometimes things are easier to remember when you have
00:36:08
>> a special day, you know what I mean? When something something exciting or something big happened for you that day.
00:36:14
I think that they got the date right of the last time that they saw Kaye because
00:36:18
Cindy clearly remembers going to visit her father on Father's Day and and swimming with Kaye that night. Uh so I I
00:36:27
believe that they have the date right, but I'm with you, Captain. I don't know if they would know exactly when uh Casey
00:36:33
>> I'm saying some of the Yeah, the date is correct, but what I'm saying is some of
00:36:36
the details are blurry. George would say that before Casey and Kaye left that day, um that she that Casey had told him
00:36:47
that she had a work function uh that would require her to either be out of town or stay overnight somewhere,
00:36:53
>> of course. >> Um and that Kaye was going to be staying at the nanny's overnight and that she
00:36:58
had already previously discussed this with her mother. Um, I don't have any information from Cindy backing that up,
00:37:05
but again, like you said, sometimes it's hard to believe uh some of these things
00:37:09
that we're hearing. Now, regarding the phone call though, >> so he gets >> 26 seconds. I don't know what it is.
00:37:15
>> He gets to Well, I don't know what it is either, but here here's here's the vibe
00:37:18
I get. All right. I get the vibe that Cindy is is willing to turn a blind eye to certain things that Casey does.
00:37:27
Probably because she wants her granddaughter close to her. She wants the granddaughter to stay at home. The
00:37:32
vibe I get from George is that he probably for a long time has had a lot of problems with the things that Casey
00:37:38
does. He he has stated several times before she was suspected of anything that she's a liar.
00:37:44
>> Uh he's stated plenty of times that he doesn't appreciate her uh being suspected of taking money from them,
00:37:50
abusing privileges, taking the car. No. No. But I'm getting to what I think that
00:37:54
the phone call was because this phone call is suspicious on George's part. In my opinion, it it's strange to just show
00:38:01
up at work and the first the first thing you do is call your daughter on the same
00:38:05
day that we believe Kaye Anthony disappeared and have a 26-second phone call. It does look good for the defense
00:38:14
and bad for George. What I'm saying here is the vibe that I get is that Casey probably did something small to piss him
00:38:20
off. It could have been anything. I get the vibe that he had a problem with a lot of the things she was doing. And I
00:38:26
and I can say we know this. We all have dads and some of the dads keep an eye on
00:38:30
their turf on their territory. They are the king of the castle. It might have just been a quick phone call that said,
00:38:37
you know what, you left the garage door open again. I'm sick of this crap. Or, you know, I found this here. You know,
00:38:43
this these dirt you left dirty clothes all over the floor. Or you left the computer on again. You know, any of
00:38:48
these little things that tick you off as a parent. He's probably just calling her
00:38:52
to to state that. >> Yeah, possibly. Now, at this is after the phone call from George. At 3:34,
00:39:00
Casey made a phone call to her then boyfriend Tony Lazaro, but the call goes unanswered. Um, between 4:10 and 4:14
00:39:09
p.m. Casey made six unanswered phone calls to her mother. Mhm. >> Now, what we see with this cell phone
00:39:16
activity, you know, we have the call from her dad, the unanswered calls to her mom and to the boyfriend. uh we see
00:39:23
a situation where her cell phone is pinging uh off of a tower that would indicate that she is near the house near
00:39:32
the Anthony home up until about 4:11 p.m. Now, it's believed that at this time she left the home and she was
00:39:40
driving toward Tony Lazaro's apartment. Um at 7:54 p.m. that night, we have video footage for this. Uh Casey Anthony
00:39:51
and Tony Lazaro are seen entering and walking around casually at a Blockbuster video store. Remember those the blue
00:39:59
buildings that they had the videos that they would rent you? >> Mhm. >> Um so we have Tony and Casey. They're at
00:40:05
the Blockbuster that evening on videotape. Um and they they're renting movies. They rent uh the movie Jumper
00:40:13
and Untraceable. Um, there is video footage of this of the two of them walking up and down the
00:40:18
aisle looking for something interesting to watch. But the curious thing here is >> trolling around. Just trolling around.
00:40:25
>> The curious thing here is that Kaye is not with them in any of this video footage. On to the following day. We
00:40:32
have June 17th, 2008. Uh George and Cindy Anthony would later report that on this date that they noticed that the
00:40:40
gate to the swimming pool is open and that the ladder is next to the pool. They had one of those ladders that you
00:40:46
had to kind of you had to place it onto the above ground pool and you could take
00:40:51
it down later for for safety precautions. Um the the thing here is there are several people at Cindy's work
00:41:01
that did state that that on they remember at least one occasion Cindy explaining that the the pool the the
00:41:09
ladder to the pool was left up on many occasions. Um stating that she actually thought that people while she was at
00:41:16
work that neighborhood kids were climbing in the pool and swimming in the pool while nobody was at the house.
00:41:21
>> That's possible. Um, now a lot of these, well, I shouldn't say a lot. All of the
00:41:26
people that reported remembering having heard her say this, they could not give a date. They could not place a date on
00:41:32
this, right? >> Um, so we don't know if this 17th is is just good for Cindy's story or if it's
00:41:38
factual. Um, but what also took place that day is that Casey Anthony posted a message on her uh Facebook page. And
00:41:45
again, I'll use air quotes when I describe this person her to her friend. Well, it's on her friend's page, Amy,
00:41:52
uh, the girl that she stole the checks from. And on her Facebook page, she writes, "Cheer me up, lady. I love you,
00:41:58
and I can't wait to get you finally moved in." Um, I'm guessing they might be talking about the ex-boyfriend's
00:42:05
apartment or something. On the next day, on the 18th, uh, Casey is visiting with
00:42:11
friends, again, without Kaye. Uh during this visit, Casey tells her friends that
00:42:17
her parents are having a lot of problems that uh Casey's father, George, has been
00:42:22
cheating on Cindy and that the two were going to get divorced. Uh she told her friends that her mother had told her
00:42:31
that George is going to be out of the picture and that it would just be the three of them girls. Um but also that
00:42:38
same night she she tells her friends that she's planning to buy a home um in a subdivision on Curry Road, stating
00:42:46
that the home would be just for her and Kaye and that she was planning on spending about $250,000 to buy a nice
00:42:54
home for the two of them. >> Wait, this is what this is what Casey is saying. >> Yes. Case Yeah. Yeah. So, you have this
00:43:01
story at the beginning of the night about the parents are going to split up >> $250,000 home.
00:43:07
>> Mhm. >> With that job you've been working really hard, that fictitious job you've been
00:43:10
working really hard for 2 years at a fictitious job, and you're going to buy a house for $250,000.
00:43:16
>> Mhm. >> Stealing money from all your family members. Okay. On the 19th, Casey makes
00:43:22
arrangements for her and Tony to go look at an apartment together. Uh, according
00:43:27
to the guy that showed them the apartment, this is actually somebody that Casey had gone to high school with.
00:43:34
Uh, he says that Casey was very upbeat during the visit. Uh, she was full of smiles. She was extremely happy and that
00:43:42
>> yolo, bro. Well, and he he says that he was happy with the the meeting as well
00:43:47
because uh it seemed to him that the decision whether or not they were going to get the apartment mostly fell on Tony
00:43:56
uh whether he liked the apartment or not because the situation was explained to him that Tony would have to break his
00:44:02
current lease. Remember, he's at the condo >> uh to get a new place. I probably should
00:44:08
check myself and calm down a little bit and get back into just the podcast. All right.
00:44:14
>> All right. Well, try try to remain calm because this might upset you. Um, now
00:44:18
later that day, and this is well into the evening, and maybe it's because they wanted to go out and celebrate.
00:44:24
>> Well, let me just tell a little story about Tony, his his roommates, >> just so we have this kind of picture
00:44:29
going. She starts seeing this guy Tony, which is, you know, >> he's like college age.
00:44:35
>> Yeah. He's a DJ and his friends are kind of DJs and throw these parties. No big
00:44:39
deal. What is interesting about this is when she first started visiting Tony, she brought her child around,
00:44:46
>> right? >> And so Kaye was around and and it seemed like all the roommates were like, "Oh,
00:44:51
this is a cool little kid." >> Mhm. >> You know, and and a lot of kids, even though they're in their early 20s, a lot
00:44:56
of people have, you know, uh younger siblings or whatever. So, they all really liked Kaye. And then it was like,
00:45:05
I'm going to come over and bring my kid for a couple weeks. And then it became, I'm not taking my kid over anymore. So
00:45:13
it was weeks and weeks of the roommates going, "Oh, hey, where's your daughter? Oh, well, she's with grandparents or
00:45:20
she's with the nanny." >> Well, >> I just want to kind of set that scene for you.
00:45:25
>> Yeah. And and and by this point, we're at the 19th. You know, she stayed the night there a couple nights in a row
00:45:30
without the daughter. Um, but you know, they've looked at the apartment and now they're going to go out to the
00:45:36
nightclub. And like I said, I don't know if it's they were celebrating because they were going to get an apartment
00:45:41
together or if they were just, you know, out at one of Tony's functions or whatever
00:45:45
>> or networking or what. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. But this is somewhat it could be somewhat related to Tony's
00:45:50
work. Um the the thing here is this is the this is the night that we all kind of know about because they go out on the
00:46:00
19th and they're partying until the early morning hours of the 20th. Well, that's where that famous picture is from
00:46:07
where she's in the blue dress and she's, you know, dancing on another on another
00:46:12
woman >> trolling around. >> Yeah. So that's that's the night that this picture is from. M. And this is the
00:46:19
picture that they claim she was paid for. It was a promotional picture, but this is also the one that they claimed
00:46:24
that it was a hot body contest, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. This is this is a photograph
00:46:28
that was that took place when she was participating in the hot body contest at the fusion night.
00:46:34
>> Well, good thing it wasn't like a hot face contest cuz she went and won. A couple days later, on the 23rd of June,
00:46:41
Anthony Lazaro would later testify that he helped Casey Anthony break into the shed at her parents' home to take gas
00:46:49
cans for Casey's car. >> Uh, this car had run out of gas, obviously. Uh, Lazaro said that he
00:46:55
watched Casey open the trunk of her car and he did not see the inside of the trunk. Uh but he did he did state that
00:47:03
he did not detect any odor or remembered uh detecting any odor when that took place.
00:47:09
>> On the 24th, the next day, George Anthony calls the police to report a break-in um to report the gas cans as
00:47:18
missing. Um later this day, he sees Casey at the Anthony residence, and he confronts her about taking the gas cans.
00:47:26
Uh George said that when he went to get the cans out of Casey's car, she like runs past him. She quickly opens up the
00:47:33
trunk. >> What actually happens is he was asking for a jack because he was, you know,
00:47:38
where you jack the car up >> and he was going to jack his wife's car up so he could change the tires. And
00:47:45
when he said, "I want to go get that jack out of your car." She was like, "No, no, no, no, no. I got it." Mhm.
00:47:50
>> She runs past him, opens up the hook, the trunk, pulls out the jack, and by the way, here's your gas cans.
00:47:59
>> Mhm. >> And that's where he gets upset because he's going, "Oh, you make me look like a
00:48:03
jackass because I called and reported these stolen." >> And I always found it weird that he
00:48:08
called and reported the gas cans as stolen. But when I looked into it a little more, there there's there's more
00:48:13
to that story. You know, they actually physically broke into the shed. You know, growing up, we had a shed in our
00:48:20
backyard. We we my house, we didn't keep it locked most of the time. Anybody could have just walked in there. Um, but
00:48:26
his situation, he had a pad lock or some kind of lock on the shed that was actually broken so that the person could
00:48:32
get in and and steal the gas can. So, that makes sense to me now having the full report of it.
00:48:38
>> It's also 2008, so gas was a lot more expensive. You know, you're looking at $4 to $5 a gallon, maybe more in
00:48:44
Florida. Well, and and what else does this tell you? If somebody's willing to break into the shed, you know, this is
00:48:50
something you want to report regardless of how small the item is that they may have taken.
00:48:55
>> On the uh 30th of June, uh this is when the vehicle is towed um to the lot. Um
00:49:03
it had sat there for a few days. Um and her her purse and a child's car seat are
00:49:09
found in the back seat of that Pontiac Sunfire. And on July 2nd, 2008, well, that's when Casey gets the very famous
00:49:18
Bellvita tattoo on her back. We've all seen pictures of that tattoo. Um, and then that takes us to roughly July 15th
00:49:27
and 16th. Uh, this being when George and Cindy pick up the vehicle, the Sunfire from the impound lot. Um, and they bring
00:49:35
the vehicle home and they finally get Casey home that evening on the 15th. and then they discover that the
00:49:41
granddaughter is missing. Um, some things that I do want to point out is regarding some statements that the uh
00:49:48
that Tony Lazaro and his roommates have said uh that took place during this time.
00:49:54
>> You know, they had you know, Casey would stay there. You know, this that wasn't
00:49:58
super abnormal. Um, however, she would never stay for an extended period of time like this. And she was there
00:50:05
basically basically staying the entire time. Um, one thing there was a few things that the guys found odd about her
00:50:13
her visit, let's say. First of all, they never saw Kaye during any of that visit
00:50:19
>> during that 30 some days. Yeah. >> Mhm. Which they found to be extremely strange. However, Casey had a story for
00:50:25
that. And the story was that her parents were going to be separating and that there was a lot of arguing going on at
00:50:32
the Anthony household and that she didn't want to be there and she didn't want her daughter to be there.
00:50:37
Furthermore, because this condo is occupied by by a bunch of college-age dudes, um she didn't think that it was
00:50:44
the place was fit for her daughter to be staying there for an extended period of
00:50:48
time and that Kaye was simply off with the nanny uh that she was being watched uh daily and nightly by the nanny. Um,
00:50:57
the the other thing that they found strange was unless they went to the club or unless one of them went somewhere
00:51:04
with Casey, she never seemed to really leave, which they found strange because she supposedly had this job. Now, one
00:51:11
thing they were they kind of they kind of overlooked some of this stuff, I think, because they did say while she
00:51:18
was there, >> you know, she was she was in a good mood all the time. She was extremely
00:51:22
friendly. She was cleaning up after them. she was cooking meals. Um, when they asked her about her job, you know,
00:51:29
don't you have a job to go to? Uh, she basically told them that, uh, her boss was really cool and because they had a
00:51:36
computer there, she was able to do a lot of the work, uh, her event coordinator position, uh, for Universal. She was
00:51:43
able to do a lot of that work at the apartment. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Guess when you have a
00:51:50
fictitious job, >> she's got an answer for everything. You can do a fictitious work on any
00:51:55
computer. You can even do fictitious work for your fictitious job at a fictitious computer.
00:52:01
>> Well, and the [clears throat] other thing too is they noticed that that more often than not, I think even one of the
00:52:08
guys reported that he believed that every time >> that Casey's cell phone would ring that
00:52:13
she would get up, leave the apartment, and take the call outside. Uh, and they would see her pacing back and forth
00:52:22
outside on these phone calls. Some of them were long phone calls. >> Well, some people are pacers when they
00:52:27
talk on the phone. I I am one of those. >> Mhm. >> Uh, and but maybe at the time it
00:52:33
probably didn't seem that suspicious. Oh, well, she's going to talk on the phone. Maybe she just wants some
00:52:38
>> quiet space. Yes. >> Right. And who knows who she's talking to? I mean, it could be talking to you
00:52:42
would assume probably the nanny or your parents or or somebody of that nature. >> Yeah. And it's assumed now by most um
00:52:51
that a lot of those calls were the calls that Cindy was making to Casey trying to
00:52:56
find out where they are, do they need anything, uh when is she going to see Kaye?
00:53:01
>> Um things like that. And you know, Casey always seemed to have an answer for when
00:53:07
Cindy would call because, you know, Cindy was like, "Well, at least let me let me say hi to her. You know, let me
00:53:14
talk to her real quick." >> Right? She's here or there. >> Yeah. She's well, she's not with me.
00:53:18
She's napping. Uh, you know, she's with the nanny. Uh, so there was always an answer. Now,
00:53:24
>> well, you hear that in the 911 tape, too. I think pretty well. >> It's when she says, uh, I I I gave you I
00:53:31
gave you many of times, many of days. No more days. Yeah. >> You don't get any more days.
00:53:38
>> Yeah. And actually, at one point, Cindy pushed her pretty bad, you know, like,
00:53:43
well, you got you gotta at least you gotta at least come by the house or, you know, let's at least let me see Kaye.
00:53:50
And I don't know exactly the date, but there was supposed to be a there was a date that Casey agreed to go back to the
00:53:58
Anthony home. >> Um, and I believe it was on a Monday and she was to bring Kaye over to see the
00:54:04
grandparents. Well, that day came and went. Well, Cindy calling Casey repeatedly finally gets Casey on the
00:54:12
phone to say, "Hey, what happened? We were supposed to we were supposed to hang out today. I was supposed to see
00:54:16
Kaye today. What happened?" And Casey states that um Xany was driving and she was in a u in a accident.
00:54:26
>> Oh, of course. >> And it was a pretty severe accident. and that Zany would be staying at the Tampa
00:54:31
Hospital and Casey and a friend of hers uh who who >> they were going to do the surgery for
00:54:38
>> well her friend supposedly her her daughter was being watched by the nanny as well.
00:54:44
>> Right. Right. And so, uh, but you would you'd feel so disrespected as, yeah, you're the
00:54:50
grandparents, but like I said, you're doing all the actions of the actual parents, you know, especially George,
00:54:57
you know, this is you are the father figure in this baby's life. And so, it doesn't matter if you move out, you know
00:55:06
what I mean? >> If you have a grandkid, those grandparents wouldn't be involved.
00:55:11
>> Mhm. Hey, that's fine that you're you're out and you're doing your thing. That's
00:55:15
fine. Just make some time. We want to see it. We've done all these things to help you and to help your daughter.
00:55:22
Just, you know, we just want to see the kid. >> Mhm. Well, [clears throat] regarding
00:55:25
that accident with Zany, um not only was she in the Tampa hospital, um but her and her friend as well as the kids were
00:55:33
forced to stay in a hotel in the Tampa area and they weren't going to leave until Xan's um family members came in
00:55:42
from out of town to be with her. So, it's it's a situation of we see her basically buying time, you know, buying
00:55:50
buying a few hours or buying an evening and then with something like this Tampa situation, we see her buying multiple
00:55:57
days. I can get I can get mom off my back for multiple days. >> An interesting question. I don't know
00:56:03
the answer, but I wonder if they actually did research on the on the the DJ and the room the boyfriend and the
00:56:11
roommates of their computers. what she was searching for, you know, why she was doing her fictitious work, what Casey
00:56:18
Anthony was searching for on those computers. >> Probably a lot of MySpace and Facebook
00:56:24
activity would be my guess. Pretending pretending to work. >> No. Yeah, I understand that. But I I
00:56:30
wonder if there'd be some incriminating stuff. >> You know, you know what happens
00:56:35
when you're charged with murder, >> right? >> Right. All right. You want to give final
00:56:40
thoughts on this? We haven't even got to the trial yet. I mean, we [clears throat] there's so much
00:56:44
more to cover. We got >> Some people have to work >> the allegations by the defense team,
00:56:49
what the prosecution alleged happens. I mean, it's one of the one of the most fascinating and more intriguing trials
00:56:56
that I can recall and it has significance in in uh true crime history. So, we got a lot more to get
00:57:03
to. >> All right. And well, let's get to that next week. >> Yeah, cuz I got to get out of here. I
00:57:08
entered myself in the hot body contest down at the Jimmy's Chicken Shack. [laughter]
00:57:15
You're You have no chance of winning. >> Oh, have you seen the men at the Jimmy's
00:57:20
Chicken Shack? >> I don't I don't even No, I haven't. >> They're full of wings and beer. And
00:57:24
check out this week's recommended reading, Incendiary by Michael Canel. For 16 years, long before the spectre of
00:57:31
terrorism haunted the public's imagination, the mad bomber terrorized the citizens of New York City in the
00:57:37
1950s. Read this book because you can enter the mind of a mad man and a real life story
00:57:44
of how three men came together to capture him and change the face of detective work. Incendiary, the
00:57:50
psychiatrist, the mad bomber, and the invention of criminal profiling by Michael Canel. Check it out wherever
00:57:57
books are available. >> All right. Cheers, mates. Thanks for the love. Thanks for Make sure you follow us
00:58:02
on Instagram. >> I need to get my Instagram numbers up. I'm in a race with somebody. I can't
00:58:06
tell you who it is, but let me just tell you, >> it's Oprah. >> It's [laughter] this person's a real
00:58:12
douche canoe. Okay. And and I want to beat this person. So, I got my paddles out, right? And I want to catch up.
00:58:18
Follow us on Instagram. And and like always, hope we uh kept you company at work or on your commute. Uh you mean a
00:58:26
lot to us. >> And for the record, we did not call Oprah a douche canoe. That just
00:58:30
accidentally came out [laughter] like that. So for everybody, thanks for chipping in this week. Thanks for
00:58:35
joining us in the garage this week. We will see you next week. And until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.
00:58:40
>> Oprah's saint. >> [music] [music] >> Heat. Heat.