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foreign [Music] thank you foreign [Music] garage wherever you are whatever you are
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doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that
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believes carolers are just panhandlers with good voices he is the captain you show up to my doors singing those songs
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prepare to get a mistletoe or a moose knuckle dropped on your face it's good to be seen and it's good to see you
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thanks for listening thanks for telling my friend [Music] all week long we have been in the spirit
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of the holidays we are drinking Christmas Ale by the great people up at Great Lakes Brewing Company garage grade
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still four out of five bottle caps with an ABV of 7.5 and healthy dose of holiday spices Great Lakes Christmas
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sale will have you sliding down chimneys and scaring the Neighbors in no time and
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Christmas sale was brought to us by some of our very good friends first up we have Courtney and Wenatchee Washington
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and next up we have Jessica and Picton Ontario we also have Deva from Coeur d'Alene Idaho and a big we like to jib
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to Jen and Lisa and Tifton Georgia and a shout out to Kelly in Columbia Tennessee
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also in Tennessee we have Meredith and Emily in Chattanooga and last but not least a shout out to husband and wife
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Jim and Lynn down in Texas so of course a big happy old Jim and Lynn old Jim and Lynn so of course a big
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happy holidays cheers to everyone out there go to truecrimegarage.com and that's where you will find our beer fund
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our blog and our store and just a reminder Parts Unknown was having the can food drive remember this
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nick uh but uh unfortunately our members of Parts Unknown thought it was used can
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food drive so uh we discontinued that we'll have to try again next year captain and that's enough of the
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business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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[Music] foreign [Music] well where we're at right now obviously we're uh two years from the from the
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date of the incident uh the case has been actively being investigated by the division of police and a couple months
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ago we turned our investigation over to the prosecutor's office and uh they have
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convened a grand jury and they have been bringing people into the grand jury and
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taking testimony from from people in the grand jury as far as what that testimony
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is as everyone knows that's that's secret we don't know what that is but there is no one person or persons that
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we're actually looking at we're just trying to gather as much information as we can
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well from from an investigative process I feel like we're a little closer because
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um you know before we didn't have uh enough where we didn't uh the prosecutors didn't feel we had enough to
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even convene a grand jury so yeah I do feel like that we are a little bit closer but you know as you know we're
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you know have to follow the the letter of the law and provide everybody their uh their constitutional rights but yeah
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I do uh I'm optimistic that we are getting closer and how does the um Titans attorney
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well I don't you know that those are those are three separate uh events that took place right now it really has
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nothing to do with this but you know obviously she was down here to meet him so you know that's something that we
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definitely have to look at and something that we have looked at but as far as him
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being indicted those are three separate issues in three different counties that he's going to answer for
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[Music] Elisa Sherman was stabbed outside her lawyer's office in Cleveland Ohio in
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March 2013 just two days before her divorce trial was scheduled to begin it starts with a chilling call to 9-1-1
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after a man heard elise's screams and rushed to her Aid Elisa Sherman and mother of four was in the alleyway of an
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office building bleeding from 11 stab wounds it was Kenny Shepard who ran to her
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he said she was having trouble standing she fell to the ground Kenny did everything he could to try to help her
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Eliza who was just 53 years old died in a hospital emergency room she had her purse with her when she was
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found so police rule out robbery as motive The Savage attack left her best friend Jan lash in shock Jan spoke with
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Eliza just an hour before she was stabbed to death Jan told reporters that they had their usual conversation adding
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Eliza was a little anxious because she was going to court soon that's why Eliza Sherman went downtown
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on that Sunday she was there to visit her divorce lawyer Jan lash told reporters that she offered to go with
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her but Eliza said no thanks Jan lash and some of elise's family say Elisa Sherman wanted to change attorneys
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but it was far too late in her case the meeting that was scheduled for that Sunday at her attorney Gregory Moore's
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request well it now looks like that meeting may have never have happened early in this case it was suspected that
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Eliza was killed after leaving Moore's office but now it appears she was walking to possibly enter the building
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not exit the building we will get into that a little bit more later what was apparent very early on in this
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investigation was that Elisa Sherman's murder revealed a family torn apart she and her husband Samford Sherman a
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retired ophthalmologist was facing a contentious divorce proceedings that were going to take place that week
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scheduled to start just two days after her death the investigation turned up a surveillance video from a nearby parking
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garage showing a person fleeing the scene of Eliza's murder covered nearly head to toe in dark colored clothing
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the video does not tell us much leaving only speculation as to the person's race
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and gender police searched for a murder weapon at the scene and on the rooftops of nearby
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buildings and turned up nothing they searched the Sherman residence for knives but none of them matched the
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murder weapon investigators interviewed employees in the floors above the walkway where she was killed they also
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questioned attorney Gregory Moore and members of the Sherman family and still did not have evidence
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to put together a good suspect in this case now just a few weeks after the murder the justice for Eliza movement
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began this was started by Elisa's daughter that she was so close to Jennifer they teamed up with the
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Cuyahoga County Crime Stoppers to offer a 25 000 reward for information in the case and promoted it on a billboard near
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East 14th Street and Carnegie Avenue in July Jennifer gathered more than 100 women for a self-defense class at the
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Beachwood Community Center then one month later in hopes that someone would come forward with information The Crime
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Stoppers reward was increased to fifty thousand dollars Jennifer also replaced her father as an executor of Eliza
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Sherman's estate Jennifer was very adamant about finding out whoever was responsible for her mother's murder and
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making sure that everything and I do mean everything would come to light now I want everyone to return their seats to
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a fully upright position because it's about to get Harry okay long hair don't care so two months after the first
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anniversary of elise's death Jennifer Sherman filed a civil suit against her father in it she sought to recover more
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than two million dollars Sanford allegedly funneled out of a joint bank account that he held with Elisa while
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she was still alive Jennifer's civil suit claimed that Samford conspired with five unnamed
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individuals to hide more than two million dollars from Eliza by moving it from their joint bank account into one
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in Elisa's name according to the court records this was a Merrill Lynch account that was in question and this was
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discovered by Elisa after she hired forensic accountant Jeffrey Firestone two months just two months before she
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was killed right so how this works uh being a former Banker is normally when you're going through a divorce if you
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have money or some wealth then what they do is they hire basically a detective if you will to go through
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financial chains to see you know what accounts they have because when you go to get the divorce you're
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going to say well let's just split up our accounts well everything that you earn during that wedding is then in
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debate if you don't have a prenup so basically what they found out was he was taking
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you know millions of dollars but what was weird here was he was still put in an account with her name on it
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yeah so there she and just with her name being on it she's entitled to that money
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yeah and and it's it's a little crazy that's why we'll have to get into it but you're exactly right that's just what
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you do you cannot always trust everyone to come to the Forefront and say look lay everything on the table
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this is what I have this is what you have this is what we have right let's just divvy it up 50 50. it doesn't work
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that way sometimes people have accounts and they have funds and things that even
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their significant other who's supposed to be the closest one to them may not be aware of well if they were that close
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they'd probably want to be getting a divorce anyways so well according to the lawsuit Eliza's claim was that she was
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not aware of this account at any time until it was discovered by the forensic accountant she was unaware of this
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account when it was opened in her name back in 2000 and according to emails she sent to her attorney Gregory Moore Eliza
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was also unaware of having ever signed a power of attorney this power of attorney
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that was signed regarding this account gave Samford control over the funds and the account itself he might have had an
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inside person and if he had an inside person then they can basically quickly create whatever accounts they want and
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be all fraudulent just I mean just to let you know how it would work I mean you have to you can't just go into a
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bank and open up account in somebody else's name you have to have their ID their information their signature uh
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they have to be present most of the time um so he had to know somebody on the inside
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okay I know this episode is titled suspects and we are talking about forensic accountants bank accounts and
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power of attorneys but this account just this one account that was discovered just two months before Elisa's Murder In
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Cold Blood on the cold streets of Cleveland I mean we are talking a large sum of money I'm sure not quite two
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million dollars after everything is moved around and transfer fees and penalties and all of that stuff well
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think about it we've had so many cases where you know the motive has been money but that could be as little as a
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thousand dollars or you know a couple hundred thousands of dollars in a life insurance or something but here we
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have at least one uh you know not only are they dividing up all the money but on top of that we have this extra
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fun of 2 million you don't think 2 million is enough reason I mean he's already being
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nefarious by not even telling her about the count anyways well Dr Evil threatened a lot of
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horrible things for just one million dollars so let's keep in mind here this is just one account and one that I must
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say I must say this allegedly found but who knows there could be more of these accounts right of course this leads to
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motive a motive for Samford to have his wife killed if their divorce proceedings
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don't go to court does this account come to light you know is anyone else aware of this account in the Sherman family
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well right but we have the one account that's two million dollars that's great and all but you have motive to begin
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with two days after her murder what was going to happen the divorce proceeding and and
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like the judge said we're not going to have any more continuance this is going forward we're not going to waste any
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more time so half your stuff is going to be and it's such a weird situation to go
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through to have a court tell you what is yours and what is hers you know what I mean yeah and that's
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what's going to happen to him and and let if she's alive that's what's happening in two days so that that's
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motive by itself on top of that you gotta account that's two million dollars well in two million dollars that is a
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lot of late night tacos my friends that's a lot of cheddar okay but but to be fair we should at least present the
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other side of the coin right so Samford has always stated in regards to this account that
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has been called into question that one he told Elisa about this account that that when he had explained it to her she
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had fully a full understanding of that account and two that account was used mostly for family expenses
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everyone anyone in this case that I could find statements from and this included persons that sided with Samford
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and liked him and also those that did not they all say it was the understanding that Samford was primarily
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responsible for paying the family's bills right so Samford says this account paid the family's household bills
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and we're talking about that you know that we spoke of that almost 4 900 square foot home I'm sure that that really nice
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home came with a really nice mortgage right and the account according to Samford was also used for credit cards
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and tuition payments as well yeah which you have some kids in college so those are going to be big payments
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emotions filed in the court this motion contended that these funds from this account were not used for family
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purposes but in fact they were used for strippers maybe another lover trips and a defamation suit that Elisa
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never knew about okay love a lover okay so we need some detail here right yeah because on one side he's
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saying hey I'm I'm using this for my kids college but you know but he's also using this to look at some titties well
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out comes the sleazy stuff all right let's get easy okay so there is believed to have been a trip taken and I have a
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little I have a little I call this into question a little bit well we kind of talked about it yesterday he would take
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these trips to New York and Florida yeah well okay so this is what the court documents State there was a trip that
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was taken to New York City sometime between 2007 and 2009. that seems a little random to me but anyway Sanford
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Sherman's there's a trip taking it sometime two or three year window yeah in these 24 months he took a trip this
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uh that Samford Sherman paid for I guess using this account on this trip it's thought that he and a friend
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um they spend the quote-unquote well well well no well we haven't got to the first quote unquote yeah this was an
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actual real friend okay it's thought that he and one of his friends spent several days with a woman friend that
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Samford had become more than friends with regarding wait so him and his friend were hanging out with a lady friend
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correct double dick and from my understanding it's not that kind of party anyway on this trip uh they spent
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several days or he spent several days with a woman that uh supposedly he had become more than friends with anyway
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regarding the defamation suit this involves Samford making sexual advances toward an exotic dancer and then
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threatening to kill her and her father okay okay wait so he makes sexual advances towards a
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stripper and those go south and then he threatens to kill her and her father correct once I have this what does he
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have to do with anything do we know no we don't have details about this exact stuff okay
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um it's okay here's really what it sounds like to me is that there's some evidence to
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support some of these claims my guess is that there's not enough evidence to be 100 sure that these things actually
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happened so while I bet you that he was actually sued by this person and in within the suit the defamation lawsuit
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there was probably a complaint filed by this individual that sued him so what I'm guessing is the information that
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that's being presented in these depositions in court proceedings is information taken from that complaint
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not not the outcome of right where he was able to defend himself and say I only threatened to kill you not your
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father your father's a great guy um and other golf every week and then the thing regarding the trip to New York
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City like you said he took lots of trips to Florida and to New York City he he went to Florida because they had
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property there right okay so this New York City trip when you when you're going to accuse me let's say of taking
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some strange trip with a woman that I'm not supposed to be involved with and you
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put a date on it that it happened sometime between 2007 and 2009 my guess is what took place is this
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there was a friend he had a friend and I think the friend's name first name was Larry all right let's go with Larry okay
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Larry he had a friend named Larry that apparently his wife um not Larry's wife Sanford's wife Elisa
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she was not comfortable with Samford being friends with this guy and my guess is that when he was out partying with
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Larry they probably got in trouble together from time to time right right everybody has that one friend right well
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at some point in their relationship Sanford must have agreed to not hang out with Larry anymore right no more Lair
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Bear right well I what I'm guessing took place was that he probably took several
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trips to New York City during the course of 2007 2008 and 2009. many of these trips were taken with this friend Larry
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that he's not supposed to be hanging out with I'm guessing that they have some information that he was hanging out with
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this woman on one or more of these trips to New York City I guess he met this woman in Vero Beach Florida
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so here's here's what my thoughts are on this I'm guessing that Sanford took a lot of
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trips with his buddy Larry to New York City during the course of those three years you know could be half a dozen
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could be a dozen um I'm I'm guessing that he went there under the guise that he's going to be
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hanging out with his friend right his friend was probably in New York City during those occasions so it
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kind of backs up that information however he's actually going there to hang out with this woman on at least one
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of those occasions according to these documents right but so but just because you're having an
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affair or doing some sleazy stuff doesn't mean you're a murderer well yeah of course and and that's why you know
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this stuff doesn't really Point toward motive for me however it points towards possible and I'm talking about the
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defamation lawsuit possible violent Behavior or threatening behavior at the least right but with that
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with that lawsuit though you have to take into account that it's a it's a stripper right so let's hypothetically
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they're hanging out he's just a customer oh you know that's fine but then she finds out he has some money and she's
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using this as a way to get money I mean that's very possible again possible violent Behavior or possible
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threatening behavior just after the two-year anniversary of Eliza's murder the police when speaking to the media
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reiterated that they believed early on and still believe that this attack this stabbing death was committed by someone
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that knew Eliza and wanted her dead they also added some new information following this statement adding that
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they have spoke with many people regarding this unsolved case in some people and these are people who are not
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cooperating let's be clear that the police are on record as stating these people are people that knew Eliza so
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they have people that know Elisa they suspect someone that knew her killed her and now they have people within that
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Circle that are not cooperating with the police they of course do not name this person or I should say persons because
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the Curious Thing here to me is they used the word people rather than we have a person that's not cooperating so more
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than one right what does this mean Captain what do you think this means I mean who knows I mean but the thing is
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it's like we've seen this at like like on her memorial service we've seen her son's State my father had nothing to do
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with this so if you have the cops knocking on your door trying to pin this on your father and
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you don't believe that your father is capable of this or capable of hiring somebody to kill her then you're not
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going to cooperate I get that so it could be as simple as that um you know but again the police aren't
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releasing who they are so it's really hard to speculate on any of that it's very possible that one of the people
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that they were talking about was in fact Samford himself because while police acknowledge that they spoke with Samford
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early in the investigation later they were reported as having said they interviewed Samford Sherman but then he
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hired a prominent defense attorney and now he's not talking with the detectives and here here's the thing that happens
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all the time and it's almost uh it's sickening almost how much it happens it's at the
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beginning of the case this person was cooperating and they gave you all this information at some point once you give
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the police as much information as you can and then you realize that you're possibly a suspect but you already gave
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all your information why wouldn't you lawyer up you know what I mean like we've seen this in so many cases and it
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and it's like and I wonder what the demeanor of the cops are in that room does it become does it turn from
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questioning to interrogation and if it does how many times have we seen false confessions yeah you know so at some
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point you know um this guy is not a dumb guy if if they're coming at you know again he was
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cooperating I think that's a key thing that people Miss is well he's not cooperating now
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so what he did before and he has a lawyer so now the cops just in law enforcement just have to go through the
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certain chains to talk to him he's still willing to talk but he has a lawyer so it's his counsel he is someone to help
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him decipher what it is that the police and the interrogators the investigators are
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attempting to do like you said we've seen setups in the past um the thing here is it's exactly what
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you said if if they turn up the heat in the frying pan every one of us want to jump out of that frying pan right so I
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think it's possible that Samford looks like a good suspect here and I I understand why people think he should be
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a good suspect of course the husband's always the person that you look at first and then when you find out later he's
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not cooperating that makes you question it not me personally but it makes you question it maybe a little more the
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money it would be the motive here for me yeah definitely definitely the motive and then he has some sleazy behavior and
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and kind of some suspicious behavior that he's keeping secrets so what else is he hiding I mean he might be hiding
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uh a very vicious person that that the public hasn't really seen foreign [Music]
00:26:38
cheers mates happy holidays to everybody okay there is another person that the police's statement of persons not
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cooperating May pertain to and oddly enough this is elise's attorney Gregory Moore this seems to be a very similar
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situation to the husband's situation Moore spoke with the police he was interviewed the day after her murder he
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cooperated with the police on that day he answered their questions he told the police he was in his office at the time
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of the attack he was waiting for their scheduled appointment they were going to go over everything before the trial
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proceedings were to begin now let's remind ourselves of a couple of things here the trial proceedings were to take place
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from my understanding two days later on that Tuesday I should point out here that a few newspaper accounts and
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Publications state that the trial proceedings were actually scheduled for the next day to start that Monday
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morning in the way it would make sense why they would meet on a Sunday correct and in
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the wake of someone's death a day's difference in the account seems to me like a trivial detail but
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I just wanted to point that out in case we are wrong and someone is screaming at
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their iPhone or their computer right now we chose to report Tuesday as the start
00:28:01
of the trial two days later as this is what is more commonly reported the most important thing here
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but it's also commonly reported that she was leaving the meeting yes and she wasn't she was entering the
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meeting but that is corrected in later uh statements and later newspaper accounts the important thing here about
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what this is is is being reported is that the judge in this case in the divorce case has ordered that the
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proceedings move forward that there were to be no more continuances in this case
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and that's because her lawyer kept on it wasn't ready ever so they had to keep pushing the date back and the date back
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yeah and and at some point Gregory Moore is no longer interested in talking with
00:28:53
police regarding the murder of his former client Elisa and this could be why because Gregory Moore lands himself
00:29:00
in some pretty hot water he gets indicted facing charges in a July 2012 bomb threat
00:29:09
that's wow I know I know people are like why are you laughing at that um well because it's weird well because
00:29:18
he's such an idiot that basically what would happen is he wouldn't be ready for the case he wouldn't be ready for the
00:29:25
trial so what would he do he'd call in bomb threats yeah that's right so not just once right yes multiple times he
00:29:33
called in the old bomb threat typically adults do not commit this sort of crime usually we would be talking about an
00:29:40
idiot teenage boy calling in one of these to get some laughs from his nitwit friends yeah or he'd you know yeah he's
00:29:47
not ready for a test or something yeah or he has to climb the rope and gym class where now the boys are showering
00:29:54
and so he he doesn't want to take showers with the boys so he calls him the bomb threat well yeah here we have a
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man in his early 40s and an upper level Attorney At what maybe not all but a good many would consider a successful
00:30:08
Law Firm being indicted for this sort of thing the details of this thing are pretty simple Moore called in three he
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he called in three bomb threats to the first one well I'm sorry not the first one but the last one he called in bomb
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threats to three Domestic Relations Court employees at the Cuyahoga County Court this being in July of 2012. in
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this the caller stated that a bomb was set and was about to explode in a specific courtroom the crazy thing here
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was later later as you said he's charged with two more of these same offenses allegedly he called in bomb threats to a
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guy uh Gallego County courthouse and a Lake County Courthouse the first was in January of 2012 the second in May of
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2012 and the last one was that one in July of 2012. so the courtrooms were evacuated no explosives were found of
00:31:08
course but now get this all of the courtrooms receiving these threats was just like you said Gregory
00:31:14
Moore was due to appear in those courtrooms with clients on those particular days right and here's what I
00:31:22
wonder captain if he did this once and he got away with it is this the same thought as what we
00:31:28
discussed regarding the 9-1-1 calls that were going on at the Sherman House and what I mean by that is once you've
00:31:34
crossed that threshold does it just make it that much easier to do it again and again does this become this like it
00:31:41
seems like it became his go-to like oh I'm no longer I'm not prepared to to enter this court case my job could be on
00:31:49
the line my my license to practice law could be on the line I'm going to I'm going to call on a bomb
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threat oops it worked once that's what I do from now on oops it worked oops it worked
00:32:06
um well I say I say oops it worked because this is destructive Behavior this is destructive Behavior yeah
00:32:18
this is the definition of destructive Behavior now this guy is incompetent you know it'd be it'd be like me you know
00:32:26
hey I'm not prepared to talk about the case today so uh let me call a bomb threat into the garage that's what it
00:32:32
was I mean this guy was somehow you know he got over his head you know he he didn't do
00:32:40
the work and and and and we saw this you know um think about uh Lisa's statements saying that she was
00:32:50
calling the attorney and he wasn't calling her back and just little things like that
00:32:57
he he had to find a way out now we have this case where we're going to trial and this is a
00:33:04
pretty big divorce process I mean this is a wealthy family and there's a lot of twists and turns
00:33:12
here we have this separate account that you know she claimed she didn't know anything about he needed to be ready
00:33:18
whether it's on that Monday or that Tuesday he needed to be ready so basically what we're getting at is that
00:33:25
would be his motive because if she is injured or obviously dead then there is no hearing right they
00:33:36
can't proceed and the funny sorry I I keep laughing because when I think about this I'm like well the court system
00:33:43
already has something in place for this particular setup when you're not prepared and you need more time it's
00:33:49
called you file a motion for continuance right but but he had already done that so many times that this was to the point
00:33:55
where the judge is like nope there will be no more continuances we have to proceed with this and I'm sure that's
00:34:02
what took place that's Elisa's case I'm sure that's what took place in these other cases as well and he panics
00:34:09
mm-hmm with the old go-to bomb threat right and I think maybe um he knew it wouldn't work in this case
00:34:18
maybe you know if he's responsible then that I I'm guessing that's what his thinking was because the whole bomb
00:34:25
threat uh trick is not going to work this time well I want to shift gears here just for
00:34:30
a little bit okay because we have a lot of suspicious Behavior here um we have the obvious motive making
00:34:37
Elisa's husband Samford a good suspect we have some very very odd behavior uh check that very times three odd behavior
00:34:48
criminal behavior from elise's attorney Gregory Moore plus because his appointment with her would have
00:34:55
it he would have been there or been in that area at the time also making him a very good suspect but I also wonder
00:35:05
who were those five unnamed persons in Jennifer Sherman's lawsuit the five unnamed persons that conspired with
00:35:13
Samford to set up that secret account that ended up worth two million dollars you know I wonder
00:35:20
who that is so there's so much to think about and and I and we have to jump back
00:35:24
to that lawsuit itself because there's also some very interesting information that will come
00:35:32
out as a matter of depositions and testimony in that lawsuit brought forth by Jennifer Sherman against her father
00:35:38
now we talked about the account obviously the account was in Elisa's name however
00:35:44
there was a power of attorney that gave Samford control of the account and of course access to the funds Eliza had
00:35:52
said she never signed the power of attorney in fact she added why would she why would she sign this power of
00:35:59
attorney Samford claimed that Eliza had in fact signed the power of attorney he claimed this in his depositions now
00:36:07
through the course of this in these proceedings we have three witnesses that will give statements regarding that
00:36:14
specific power of attorney these are three names on that specific document other than elise's name and Sanford's
00:36:22
name the first was an employee of samford's the next was a Merrill Lynch employee
00:36:29
signed as a witness and the last was the notary who was a different employee of Merrill Lynch none of these three
00:36:38
persons could recall if Eliza was actually present during any of the processes of signing that document
00:36:46
witnessing or notarizing that document none of them could recall if she was actually there well right first of all
00:36:53
if you're the witness and she's not there then you don't sign it second of all if you're the notary that's your job
00:36:59
your job is to witness the signature and so you have the you have at least two people that basically are like well I
00:37:08
don't know what happened I don't remember you didn't do your job right and I I mean I understand that these
00:37:14
these Court proceedings are taking place 17 years after the fact but like you said if these people are doing their job
00:37:21
it's a very simple answer the answer is yet it was 17 years ago however I can tell you that of course
00:37:27
she was there because as a witness and I've witnessed many of these documents and signed my name to it I have never
00:37:34
signed my name when a person has not been present right I have never notarized a document when the when
00:37:39
assigning individual when a signee was not present for me to notarize that that that document furthermore a forensic
00:37:49
document examiner hired by Jennifer Sherman corroborated her claim that it was highly likely that the signature on
00:37:58
the power of attorney did not match samples of Elisa's handwriting so according to the forensic accountant
00:38:06
his reports state that remember some of this money was moved it was eventually moved from this account of Eliza's to
00:38:15
Sanford's individual accounts and he could do this because of that power of attorney well according to the
00:38:23
forensic accountants reports eight hundred and twenty thousand dollars in Damages were incurred by the
00:38:31
transferring of funds from elise's account into samford's individual account some other strange stuff and
00:38:37
some other possibly incriminating things to look at regarding Samford are the court papers in connection with the
00:38:45
daughter's civil suit over her mother's estate show Eliza wrote to a family friend stating I am really afraid he is
00:38:52
going to have me killed obviously referring to Sanford stating I am afraid of him and what he will do
00:38:59
Jennifer also claims that she the daughter lives in fear of her father and is even afraid to go to a deposition
00:39:08
because she may experience physical harm on her way to or from the deposition right I
00:39:16
mean that's you know because she's speculating that maybe her father had something to do with the death of her
00:39:21
mother and we saw what happened there Samford testified that from roughly 2006 to 2010 he had been having an affair
00:39:30
with a woman who lived in New York and Florida and that he had made several trips to visit her other testimony by
00:39:37
some of samford's closest Friends Revealed that Samford had been at the end of his rope and was emotionally
00:39:45
distressed in the time leading up to Eliza's filing for a divorce now remember she filed for divorce at the
00:39:52
end of I believe it was 2011 because remember this these proceedings were extremely drawn out but it's like I said
00:40:01
I mean when she's beating up the car that's the signs that she knew that she was you know married to cheater cheater
00:40:08
pumpkin eater right so you know I I think this guy uh he tends to be a selfish individual I
00:40:17
mean he's gonna have a four year affair with some lady that lives in New York and Florida
00:40:24
so now how much money are you spending they could go to your family and you're doing this for selfish reasons
00:40:33
and then you don't want a divorce why you know that's that's the easy thing right you're in love with this lady
00:40:40
you're going to New York and Florida um why wouldn't you just get a divorce cut the money in half say hey it didn't
00:40:49
work out we tried we had some kids together you take this part of the money I'll take this part of money we'll both
00:40:56
live good lives but he don't want to do that because he's selfish no is that true though
00:41:02
because as we discussed in in episode two he he did he asked his friends in in elise's friends to speak with her and
00:41:11
try to convince her into settling the divorce that they that they just proceed with it right but she filed first and
00:41:18
then he filed course I think is hilarious when people are like oh you it doesn't take two people to file for
00:41:24
divorce you just one person files but again what we said uh in in the last episode is
00:41:34
he he wasn't necessarily trying to get his buddies to convince her to settle a 50 50 deal
00:41:43
that we know of all we know is that he was telling people around her possibly to manipulate her Hey get her
00:41:51
to agree get her to settle right what is that settle see what I'm saying right no I guess what was the deal on
00:42:02
the table that he was trying to get people to convince her of and for all we know that it was not in favor of her at
00:42:09
all and hey you you dated a you know well you married a guy that's verbally abusive
00:42:17
and he's calling you names and he's cheating on you and he's taken money and hiding it from you and you find this out
00:42:25
before why would you settle you should you know she had every right to go in there and try to get everything
00:42:31
every penny that she felt she was worth or or every penny that she thought she deserved
00:42:38
well Sanford and his friends they claim in their depositions that Eliza may have
00:42:43
worn recording devices to instruct uh per instruction from her attorney and that she had tried to provoke Samford
00:42:51
into arguments so she could capture them on tape now there's more of this and the worst part I find this to be the
00:43:00
most damning of the evidence that is coming out against Samford this really does nothing for the lawsuit against
00:43:08
Samford but this should be a huge red flag with a spotlight on it regarding the murder of Elisa Sherman okay this
00:43:16
was taken from another deposition one of those same friends in their deposition claimed in more than one occasion
00:43:23
Samford inquired how someone could get away with committing a perfect murder at least one of these conversations
00:43:31
occurred during a walk on a Cleveland Beach the friend said that the friend Samford asked this of he was uh worked
00:43:40
in law enforcement or the law enforcement field and when asked how the friend responded to such a question the
00:43:47
friend said he gave Samford this scenario don't use your car or don't let your car
00:43:54
be seen don't use a gun because it can be heard don't use your street clothes use
00:44:01
something that would cover up your entire body your face your hands well right this is super chilling because
00:44:10
it's describing what we see on the surveillance footage we see we see a person fleeing the murder scene with no
00:44:18
vehicle at no point do we see a vehicle we see this person dressed head to toe and clothing that is covering the entire
00:44:26
body just as he said the face the hands according to Sanford's deposition he said he probably had conversations about
00:44:35
Elisa but could not recall the nature of those conversations or where they occurred during samford's deposition he
00:44:42
was not asked directly about the perfect murder conversation Samford Sherman has
00:44:48
never been named as a suspect in Elisa's murder the bizarre twists continue captain in this case this twist takes us
00:44:57
back to Gregory Moore elise's attorney bomb threats you know remember he had the bomb threats but there would be okay
00:45:05
I forget there would be hey you remember this guy he's a bomb it's the bomb threat guy but he would later be
00:45:13
indicted on more charges Gregory Moore was indicted on one count of tampering with evidence one count of obstructing
00:45:20
official business one count of falsification one count of telecommune telecommunications fraud and two counts
00:45:28
of forgery yeah this guy's a scumbag yeah but I think the the key thing here is a lot of
00:45:37
these indictments have to do with Eliza Sherman right when when Gregory Moore was indicted when the indictment was
00:45:45
announced the then prosecutor said in a statement we believe that this indictment and the evidence behind it
00:45:51
takes us one step closer to Bringing Eliza Sherman's killer to Justice right so make no buts about it this this has
00:46:00
to do with her murder with her case now Gregory Moore has denied these allegations originally he pled not
00:46:08
guilty uh he was scheduled to appear in court in May of this year on unrelated charges those were from the the bomb
00:46:18
threat charges uh inducing panic inducing laughter he was pleading not guilty to those charges as well
00:46:26
now let's talk about these new charges because according to prosecutors Gregory Moore never met with Eliza that day
00:46:35
they claim that he initially provided a statement to investigators that he was waiting in his office during the time of
00:46:43
the attack but but data retrieved one year later with the help of the FBI the old cell
00:46:51
phone ping they used this from a downtown cell tower this suggested that he allegedly
00:46:57
lied about his location and misled Elisa okay that's important information on that one sentence right there okay he
00:47:07
allegedly lied about his location this means where he told police he was during the time of the attack
00:47:15
but they also follow that up with misled Elisa meaning he's telling her stuff in
00:47:22
communication that is not true as well so he's lying he's lying to the victim minutes
00:47:31
before she's killed right and then later the next day lying to the police when questioned about
00:47:39
where he was and what he was doing right but then you mess with the [ __ ] FBI and they caught you so so let's I mean
00:47:48
to make this really clear he is telling her come down for a meeting on a Sunday which offices are normally not open
00:47:57
right so he's telling her come down he's telling her that he is there he is not there
00:48:05
he is somewhere else so he is basically putting her in place as that door is she able to get into the
00:48:13
building for safety no so he knows that wherever she parks that she's going to have to walk
00:48:21
and remember she like texts him or something because she didn't wanna uh she wanted to meet him down there
00:48:28
because she don't want to stay in the cold because it was pretty cold out so he knew that she had to walk from her car
00:48:35
to the office building but once she got to that office building the door was going to be locked so she's a Sitting
00:48:41
Duck right that's basically what he set up would she have known that the door would
00:48:48
have been locked that's here here's the reason why I questioned that because I've seen some
00:48:54
of the communication back and forth between them and it almost appears to me like the the door being locked was a
00:49:01
surprise to her and here's here's why I think that that might be accurate you know when I used to work in downtown
00:49:08
buildings it was very typical that we would have front doors that would automatically lock at certain times and
00:49:15
automatically unlock it certain times right so if you're expecting a lot of people in and out it's very tough for
00:49:22
somebody to have their finger on that button and control the locking mechanism to let people in and out during normal
00:49:29
business hours Monday through Friday when you're expecting a lot of people coming and going but we also didn't want
00:49:36
people just randomly showing up into the buildings so typically at a certain hour
00:49:40
let's say seven o'clock at night Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday the door would automatically lock and then
00:49:47
someone had to control it somebody had to use a key card or a security Personnel had to actually unlock that
00:49:55
door physically to let someone in here's what I'm getting at I wonder I'm guessing that if this is how they chose
00:50:03
to do their meetings that she had been to this office on several occasions most of these occasions probably took place
00:50:09
between Monday and Friday during typical business hours right my guess is the door was locked at a certain time on
00:50:16
Friday 5 6 p.m and it was not unlocked until the start of business on Monday now people that worked in the building
00:50:23
people that had caused to be there still have access but they have to use a key card to enter or possibly even exit the
00:50:32
building and this is part of the the problem with Gregory Moore's story is that the
00:50:40
I'm sure that the police found this before the FBI ever got to it I think the FBI probably helped them with the
00:50:47
self out with the cell tower situation but this is pretty simple information to get here
00:50:53
I think they had a record because there was this was a key card system for this front door and they probably had a
00:51:01
record of Gregory Moore coming and going that day a little more insight into the
00:51:07
communication between Eliza and Gregory Moore it's my understanding that they were actually supposed to meet on the
00:51:14
Saturday not on the Sunday they were scheduled to meet on that Saturday I'm a little confused if that
00:51:21
meeting actually took place well no I think he called in the bomb threat so they didn't have to have the meeting
00:51:26
well what I mean by that is at some point he has asked her to go to the office on Sunday and what I mean by that
00:51:34
is I don't know does that mean that the meeting went longer than scheduled and he said hey let's finish this up
00:51:40
tomorrow or did he not show up to the meeting or did he reach out to her and say hey can't do this today let's do it
00:51:47
tomorrow right for whatever reason they end up meeting on that Sunday this is unscheduled in
00:51:53
advance the most this could be scheduled in advance was at some point on Saturday
00:51:59
and then on Sunday more than once from my understanding they didn't go I do not have the
00:52:06
specific wording on this information which was traded back and forth via text from Gregory Moore to Elisa Sherman
00:52:14
but at more than one occasion he pushed back that meeting on Sunday as well so again
00:52:22
but like I said I mean he basically created a scenario that she's gonna no matter what time they meet you know no
00:52:31
matter if she knows if the door is locked or if she doesn't know it's locked that's I mean neither here nor
00:52:37
there for me what he's doing is she he's putting her in a situation where you know she's going to be like I said
00:52:46
the Sitting Duck especially if she has to sit there at a locked door that she didn't anticipate
00:52:52
for it to be locked that's just slowing her down on returning to her vehicle or getting into the the building
00:52:59
um in in the text messages that they Exchange she is telling him hey you know I'm down
00:53:06
here the door's locked right he says okay I'm on my way down to unlock the door he's on the fifth floor of this
00:53:12
building but he's not well he's supposed to be his office is on the fifth floor so she's going to sit there and wait for
00:53:19
a while for him to come down and unlock the door eventually he never comes down there and
00:53:24
she texts him back and says look it's cold outside I'm returning to my car so not only does he he I want to be very
00:53:32
clear he set up this meeting this was not a Lisa scheduling this meeting he scheduled this meeting and then via text
00:53:41
pretends to be in the location where he said he would be right to the point where she eventually says
00:53:47
look it's cold out here I'm walking back to my car right well and this is a guy that doesn't return your calls doesn't
00:53:54
return your emails you've had to have a continuance after continuance because he's not ready
00:54:00
I mean you know she had a good lawyer before that she was happy with and now she has this guy and she doesn't want
00:54:06
this lawyer anymore but it's too late in you know late in the game so to be clear prosecutors allege that
00:54:13
Gregory Moore sent Elisa text messages stating that he was in his office at the time she was attacked but phone records
00:54:20
electronic key card data and witness statements show that Gregory Moore left his his office one hour before Elisa's
00:54:28
Eliza was murdered and didn't return until one hour after police found her bleeding outside when
00:54:36
investigators attempted to follow up with Gregory Moore regarding his whereabouts he refused to cooperate he
00:54:42
started refusing to cooperate after they presented this information to him saying
00:54:46
hey look you told us a story before a made-up story before we want the real deal this time
00:54:53
Moore has denied that he lied to Elisa or the police right but we have it on record that he
00:55:00
lied to her and one investigator said that uh in referring to Gregory Moore said he's got some questions to answer
00:55:07
and hopefully that will come out in court he's not talking to us but if you don't have anything to hide why wouldn't
00:55:14
you talk to us yeah but this guy seems like a weasel so I I really think if they hold his feet to the fire they're
00:55:20
going to get some more information so clearly these are the two that are the main suspects in the eyes of the public
00:55:26
and I think rightfully so I mean there's there's a lot on both of these guys and
00:55:32
what I think is starting to show through and shine through a little bit here is that it looks to me like police and law
00:55:39
enforcement are awfully suspicious about Gregory Moore in particular so there's there's also there's so much to think
00:55:45
about here and we have a lot more to get to and it looks like we'll have to get to that in episode four
00:55:51
[Music] if you would like to check out our merchandise in our old episodes as well
00:56:00
as bonus episodes you can do that by going to True Crime garage.com and I hope this four-parter is helping
00:56:06
everybody out through the holiday work week yeah we will see you back here in the garage for episode four until then
00:56:12
be good be kind and don't litter [Music] foreign [Applause] [Music]