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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] it's your fault Captain your fault it's
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your birthday listen to this it's my fault but it's your birthday it's your fault
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because last week we talked about West Memphis 3 and I said I was not going to do this because we as you mentioned we
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cover a new case every week we it's tough to look at other cases while we're looking at next week's case right MH and
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but we could look back on cases there's there's a lot of parts of cases we've talked about in private well what I mean
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is your fault is that we talked West Memphis 3 it got me it got me intrigued again and
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I think I tried to log it to see how much distraction was involved but I think I did six or seven hours of uh
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reading and and uh trying trying to prove me wrong no no no just shuffling around on the internet of of just but
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you King any kind of thing of of of the case um not necessarily the theory that we discussed last week but um the cool
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thing though is I received a lot of email from people with high Praise of saying hey love that you talked about
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West Memphis 3 again and the from the comments I got I gather we could talk about West Memphis 3 on off the Record
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every week and everybody would be just completely fine with it yeah and I thought I was heated but uh one of my
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friends said nah that's that's a captain on a three MH and I said okay well I'm going to start taking it up to
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six well what I wanted to do real quick though uh sign know on the west Memphis 3 I had a source and I don't I don't
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know if this is a credible Source um but somebody I've talked to several times about different cases they explain to me
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that they know for a fact that Jason is working on an angle and he said that if you listen to the end of Bob ruff's
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coverage of West Memphis 3 that they talk about a new lead mhm and that this lead is being worked on by the West
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Memphis 3's team right and that um so there is some movement on that now I didn't listen to the whole series um
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with Bob Ruff good buddy of ours just I I haven't had the time well it's a commitment it's a commitment because
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it's like our show it's twice a week um so it's it's heavy lifting for us who are trying to look at other cases for
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you know for our show so yeah that's interesting that you say that because that was my understanding as well was
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that Jason Baldwin is actively involved in the investigation that he is so angered about being accused of something
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that he says he did not do that he wants to write and correct this because ultimately he did plead guilty to it you
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know so and he's not fine with that that's not sitting well with him so he's actively involved uh with the case in
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the investigation we say case we we all have to keep in mind it's not a real case as far as far as law enforcement's
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concerned but then from my understanding Damian that doesn't mean that it won't change though well it could right right
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and here's what I mean by that if they could follow some leads I mean this makes their case harder to solve but
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that doesn't make it impossible and I could totally see there's a lot of times that they get rid of a charge mhm and so
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it's very possible this plea deal that they took they get rid of well and in my understanding Eckles who we noted as not
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being involved in further investigation into this case it's my understanding that his involve that he is involved in
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a way and that is he's for these um kind of Innocence projects and um stopping the death penalty kind of thing the
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source told me that it's the whole team and now this kind of excludes Jesse Miss
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Kelly because he just doesn't want to be involved with anything which is fine I totally understand that but from this
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Source it's the whole team uh kind of spearheaded by Jason but Damien is involved but he's just not going to be
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public about they're just not going to be as public which is probably smart which is fine with me but again I don't
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feel bad for my anger towards them or towards the lack of effort that that I've seen what the hell you shouldn't be
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you I don't think that you should be who cares you got you got a little worked up
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it's a it's a touchy subject well but it actually makes me feel better when I hear that they are working on it because
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then I know if one of these individuals Jason or Damian heard my show they they know where I'm coming from they know
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where my frustration lies they have this same frustration so hey maybe one day they they would talk to me well and you
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know what's interesting is that I actually none of the feedback I got was anything other than praise for talking
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about the case again um so but the way that I liken to what I think went down last week I think that the the teenagers
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you know now adults that have become known as The West Memphis 3 I think they were kind of collateral damage for the
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captain because you like so many other people are just angry that there are three innocent 8-year-old boys that were
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killed and it doesn't feel like there's been any justice and the problem is sometimes when you get angered and angry
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about something like that you got to take that hostility somewhere and you don't always know where to go with it
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and I think the West Memphis 3 guys were a little bit of collateral damage because there was no just there's been
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no justice is what it feels like at the end of the day the collateral damage actually falls on the three boys that
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were murdered and what I mean by that is that's the first Injustice and then if you wrongfully uh commit these three
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boys you say that they commit the crime and then they get put in jail that's Injustice and then the fact that they
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have to take a deal because one of them's on death row and they can't just wait it out I mean it's hard to you know
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I believe Jason Baldwin would have waited out I said to my friend I would wait it out I would not lie I would not
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tell you that I did something I didn't do screw that that's not going to happen that's that's the way I feel so that
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there there's an injustice by them being in prison but then there's an injustice
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cuz they have to claim that they did it they get to say okay I plead guilty but but I'm going to retain my in my
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innocence so that's an injustice but then the Injustice is too because of all that time spent and all that energy
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spent to try to get them out of jail we didn't spend as much time as we should have to try to catch the real
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killer and then that that Injustice then falls again on the backs of three eight-year-old boys yeah and and I think
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as got me pissed off as far as Jason Goes I'm with you I think he would have waited it out I think the problem there
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it's a it's a chess game and the problem is that there's other there's two other
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individuals that are in prison as well so when when you're being approached with this opportunity and let's let's
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look at it like that it we have to it's an opportunity to get out of prison but you have to shame your own
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name to do so the thing is it's a tough decision to make to sit there and go you
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know what no I'm going to be a hard ass and I'm just going to stick to my guns and I'm going to wait this thing out and
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I'm going to do what I think is right what I believe is right by my principles the problem with that though is I got
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two other guys one of them on death row that I have to consider uh yeah you have
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to consider but the other it was a package deal you know it was kind of an All or Nothing thing right but the
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here's here's what makes it even more difficult is Jason Baldwin knows how their investigation's going he knows how
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much money is being poured into this investigation cuz when they go back to trial they have to have all their tees
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crossed all their eyes dotted right and he knew how the investigation was going right okay so if you know it's
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going pretty well and maybe it takes another year maybe it takes two years what do you care because you're going to
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get more and more information to write the wrong M and not only does it write your wrong it brings Justice for these
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8y old boys do you so I mean I said it before but people said to me um during text you know a lot of times people
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listen to the show Friends will listen to the show they'll text me back and forth and uh oh you weren't that heated
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to them I say [ __ ] you no I'm just joking um but they were saying oh you would you
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would have taken the deal mhm and I just want it I mean that's and that's what I
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feel now I'm not in jail I'm not in prison and I don't have that chance to prove that that's what I believe I'd do
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and I and I can't say that I'd 100% do that because I'm not in that situation you know it's yeah I I could give you my
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opinion but I don't think it would hold any weight for many reasons one like you
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said never been in that situation hope and pray never are in that situation then number two from whose perspective
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do you do you decide that you're going to make that decision you know are you Damian who's sitting in a different cell
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elsewhere are you Jason you know what I mean there's three different guys three different angles to take that from right
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right and I I'm talking more from the angle of Jason I think he was adamant that he was not going to take a deal
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again what falls on him heavily is one of his best friends now but you're talking this is years and years pass so
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he's not your best friend anymore and then also you could argue that you know there could be some resentfulness there
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could be some anger towards him that I hung out with this guy and this is what got me charged mhm so I think that has
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to put a play into it but again but if I'm on a death row that's that's way different you know
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and and and look I see why they did what they did but it's it's nice to hear if if what this birdie is telling me is
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true it's nice to hear that they haven't given up the fight where most people could you could argue yes we said that
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we're going to we're going to try to research this we're going to investigate it we're going to get to the bottom of
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this we're going to bring Justice for these three little boys you could say that in your documentary but your
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comeback after that is well we took this deal and because we did that there's nothing really we can
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do and you can make that statement a couple times and people will probably get off your back and and people will
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also sympathize with the fact that yeah you're in jail for life and they gave you an opportunity to walk out of jail
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that day probably would take it myself right mhm so uh it's nice to hear that they're not giving up even though it's a
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bigger uphill battle now right but it's nice to hear that and I hope it's true well that's uh no I think we here look
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I'm not done talking about this yet this shut your face this is what happens this
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is It's your fault you shut your stupid mouth all right so it sounds like you had a conversation with a little birdie
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um and do you have any details or suspicions of of what here's what I think okay from listening to everything that's
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going on with it and keeping up with the case my mind wonders where what is this
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new possible angle what is this new possible lead mhm and I could Wonder several different things is it do you
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think that it's somebody that was close to one of the victims or close to one of
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the suspects that has now gotten involved or is revealing more information and they're able to uh work
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that angle and work that lead do you think it's actually new information or do you suspect that it might be uh a
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person that could have or should have been under suspicion before but was never in the well-known group of
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characters that we know about well when you look at Wes of Memphis it it really points it uh pretty bad at Terry hops
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points of guilt at Terry hops Now you listen to some of the the interviews that Terry has done after
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that they're interesting um they're I don't know if they're people claim that there's physical evidence to
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prove that he was there I don't believe that is the case I know that the found a
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hair in between shoelaces on the boy's shoes mhm um like one hair uh that could have came from could
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have been on the shoelace before the boys ended up there there's a lot of eyewitnesses that saw him um that day at
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multiple times um and then all the weird stuff that really came to light with him
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was years and years later mhm coming from his ex-wife which I'm just going to say this
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Pamela Hobbs she's a little crazy well so no I mean she's there's there's something going on with her and to be
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married to somebody for so long and then all of the sudden all these bad things come to light and it's like you see it
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all the time people get divorced then all of a sudden well I was married to the devil well you were married to him
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for how long and that you're okay with that mhm but then all of a sudden it you turn you know what I mean and these are
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the tough thing is there's so much emotion here so these are the same individuals uh whether it's Terry Hobbs
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whether it's whatever parent there's so many of the parents that when they thought the West Memphis 3 were guilty
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it was they're guilty and I hope they burn in hell mhm right and then once they think it's somebody else you know
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Mark buers once everybody thought maybe it was Mark buers then they were like Mike Mark buers did
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it and I hope he burns in hell and when once that passed then it was like oh Terry Hobbs did it I hope he burns in
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hell you know it's like so I think people are very quick to jump from one Theory to another
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theory and I don't know if it's a casted characters I think there's something weird about Vicky Hutchinson's son's um
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accounts of the events and knowing that there was eyewitnesses that saw multiple eyewitnesses that saw um young
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men of color leaving the woods and then we have a bloody man of color at the restaurant and do they have a lead to
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let us know who that was you know so I think I like to answer your question I have no clue but it wouldn't
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surprise me if it if it was a lead out of left field that they never even thought about right right or here's the
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other thought what if they're able to discredit somebody's Alibi let's say somebody that they looked at way back in
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1993 had an alibi and then all of a sudden that alibi doesn't really exist and somehow somebody's able to prove
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that right you know we talked about that when uh false aliis people provide them
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all the time you know people that should be that probably are guilty of something
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provide a false Alibi and the troubling thing and I don't want to put this on law enforcement's shoulders but here
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here's been my thought and this doesn't go for across the board you know this doesn't mean every individual in law
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enforcement works this way it just like we've said time and time again there are
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people that are good at their jobs and there are people that are bad at their jobs and in every line of work across
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the whole entire world yeah we're proof of that right so you just wonder when you have so many people that were talked
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to and so many people that were interviewed and one of the questions that was a part of their questionnaire
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you know they had these questions that the um the lead detective gell that he came up with and he's like look every
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person you talk to you're going to ask them at least these questions plus any other questions you can think of that
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that come up out of the answers they give you to these questions and one of those questions
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would imply that they you know where were you at the time of the murders you know so here's the thing if you
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interview 200 300 people and you ask them where they were at the time of the murders you may have an alibi for 90% of
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those people let's say 10% are going to give you the old I was sitting at home watching TV because that's what people
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do and and and you're alone doing that you have nobody to prove that you were there watching TV but what I'm getting
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at is if you have all of these aliis hundreds of them essentially they need to be followed up on and I don't know
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that we can believe that all of them were thoroughly followed up on there's probably a couple people in there one
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might be a suspect one might be the killer that has claimed to have been somewhere and it's either a flimsy Alibi
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the one that that they can't discredit or can't prove well even in like the Callahan files I don't want to jump off
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what you're saying too much but it's the same thing with aliis as far as eyewitnesses because we don't H you know
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we have a rough time frame of when we think those boys were M murdered but if you go back and find out that okay so uh
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eyewitness a b c and d are correct but maybe gnf or whatever is not so maybe maybe May that brings uh maybe we can
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narrow down the window of when we think the boys went missing mhm and the one issue is that it's just so
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far um we're so far removed now from 1993 but again could it be somebody that watched one of these documentaries that
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went they said I said what that's not what I said right that's not what I meant or whatever it was let me reach
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out to these people and clear the air and say hey this this is what said this is what I actually said and yeah it's
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it's interesting and and the thing that's so weird about this one is looking at it is there some evidence
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against Terry Hobs yes is there some evidence against Mark buers yes was there some evidence against the West
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Memphis 3 yes it's almost you know having watched portions of those trials you almost think that there's as
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flimsy as a verdict guilty verdict as those were yeah I mean you could have you could have probably convicted Mark
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buers you could have probably convicted Terry Hobbs you could have you could picked you could have picked somebody at
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random in that neighborhood and convicted them M if you wanted if if the bar that was set is those two trials
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that got convictions then you you could have picked anybody at random well again
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I think the other thing that makes this very difficult for investigators is the wounds are those are those postmortem
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wounds or they not and depending on what answer you get from which expert quote unquote expert it will lead you down
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different rabbit holes mhm and so it's really become becomes what you believe but not just in 1993 but in today's
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society I see it all the time with people they they come up with the idea they take a hard and fast you know
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stance on something and they don't waver mhm and that needs to stop you know in my mind if we want to grow as a society
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if we want to get the answers to some of these cases you have to open up your mind mhm well this expert's saying this
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maybe it's that this expert saying this maybe it's that we now we need to go down both rabbit holes you the other
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thing that's crazy too is you know we when we talked about this case and covered it we talked about how there was
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a um a list that was provided to law enforcement and I think there was going off of memory 10 11 maybe 12 names 10 to
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12 people on this list that the one investigator the one detective gave to the police department and said talk to
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these 10 or 12 people I believe the Killer is on this list and that's Damen eckl's name was on that list I believe
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Jason Baldwin was on there as well but most of the people on that list were all teenager types wearing black shirts long
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hair you know you guys that guys and girls that looked like the West Memphis 3 right just
00:22:07
because you listen to Ministry or 9in Nails doesn't make you a murderer I mean it makes you cool because you have some
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good taste in music but doesn't make you a murderer the thing that I've often wondered though Captain
00:22:23
is could could that person could that detective have been right that I believe the killer's name is on this list that
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I'm providing you I don't know who the Killer is on this list but I believe that their name is on here I think
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that's irresponsible no I I agree 100% but I'm I'm just looking at it as an armchair detective person that has holds
00:22:44
no responsibility with law enforcement as somebody that likes to just think through these puzzles and I I've
00:22:51
wondered it's it's an interesting thing to ponder what if the name was on that list but it's not one of the three three
00:22:58
that was convicted right you know I don't think I don't believe Jesse Miss Kelly's name was listed there um or
00:23:06
could it have been one of the West Memphis 3 along with other people listed on that list it's it's an interesting
00:23:14
thing to kind of it's an interesting soccer ball to kick around I think okay so I'm I want to take a point from this
00:23:20
case and go into another case okay okay and follow me on this this is my issue when you when you when you're
00:23:31
closed-minded and you come you need to have these people answer questions a certain way to get to your ending
00:23:40
because you established an ending and and this is where it gets very messy because if they just there's no
00:23:49
hours in between they just said Jesse Miss Kelly talk right and they don't lead him
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anywhere mhm what does he say we don't know because they led him well well he does give a partial confession before
00:24:07
they really start steering it in the direction that they want right right but again we have this Gap in time there's
00:24:14
not there wasn't a confession like hey this guy wants to come in don't talk to him don't ask him any questions hit
00:24:22
record and let's go right there's this Gap we don't know what was said we have no clue I have a lot of
00:24:30
good guesses I think yeah but what I'm saying is so once they hit record we're steering the conversation they were
00:24:35
steering the conversation before they hit record and and the same thing with Vicki Hutchinson's son Aaron Hutchinson
00:24:42
what did they say to him before they hit record and that that that creates a narrative once you create that narrative
00:24:51
because they have their ending so and and and this is something that happened in serial
00:24:58
you have this guy Jay that is supposedly quote unquote confessing to a crime or confessing to be involved in a crime in
00:25:07
some manner right we have conversations that happen that we don't have any record of so we
00:25:14
don't know what was talked about and what we do know is that law enforcement had a cell phone ping diagram and they
00:25:21
had to make his story make sense with this ping diagram right so now we have law enforcement that has the ending
00:25:31
that's their proof that's their physical proof that's something that they can go
00:25:35
to the jury and say we have this physical proof you have to follow this physical
00:25:40
proof but his story has to make sense with that physical proof and we know cell phone ping you know cell phone ping
00:25:49
technology it's a lot of horseshit right it's a lot of maybe it pinged at the closest Tower maybe it
00:25:58
pings at a farther away Tower right it's not definitive Definitive proof so what
00:26:04
we have is this thing that the cops at the time thought was definitive proof so now they need to make Jay's story make
00:26:11
sense with that so much so that they're knocking on the desk MH just like stuff that they did with Jesse Miss
00:26:18
Kelly and then it makes Jay look more and more and more and more like a liar every time and one of my issues with
00:26:27
that has always been when people go Jay's a liar yes he's a liar there's proof that he's lying but what we also
00:26:33
have in that case in the serial case it's proof of law enforcement forcing his hand to say what they want him to
00:26:42
say mhm so does that actually make him a liar you see what I mean oh yeah like yes technically he is lying but he's
00:26:50
lying because they're telling him to lie mhm and that changes the whole shade of the case
00:26:59
because if we go in again no Communications before just hit record tell us what happened and we have that
00:27:06
on record and then if we have it on record later that the cops are knocking on Windows and stuff to make him change
00:27:12
his answers or we don't think that's what happened Jay go back and tell us again mhm then at least we have the
00:27:19
first story and then we can start with that and then based off that first story how much is he changing and is he
00:27:26
changing because J is a liar or is he changing because law enforcement is forcing his hand MH this is something
00:27:33
that you know I would debate all the time at crime con that's if you haven't gone to Crime con you just need to go
00:27:39
just just get in the old station wagon because drive right into town set up shop for about three nights call Bigfoot
00:27:47
he'll drive you come party with the extra extra Chrispy Colonel yeah hang out with the extra crispy Colonel no but
00:27:55
what I find so fascinating about about that is it changes the whole shade of a case and so if I could tell you that all
00:28:03
the lies that Jay told just hypothetically if I said to you all the lies that Jay told about the
00:28:12
timeline where it happened what happened what time all that stuff you know what car it was where they all that stuff was
00:28:19
forced by the hand of the cops but we have initial statement from him that's actually true and he was
00:28:27
still involved in this murder and Adon was still involved in the murder mhm that would
00:28:33
change a lot of these points of interest of the case that people talk about and debate about and discuss and and we'll
00:28:42
never know that though so uh that always leaves doubt so if somebody asks me do I
00:28:49
think Jay's a liar well yeah cuz we have proof of it right right we know he's a liar that's not even a
00:28:58
right that's not even a debate but why is he and who is forc in his hand what's the motivation yeah and and look I like
00:29:05
to ponder these things but I want to ponder these things because there's injustices you know Heyman Lee it's
00:29:12
injust that we don't know we have a man that's accused we have a man that was tried poorly we have a man in jail for
00:29:22
the crime but we don't know and and that's uh again another case where I think law enforcement start going down
00:29:30
rabbit holes before they actually did all their due due diligence you know right well and then the other problem
00:29:38
though too is there's a lot of pressure to solve these cases and then when you're handed something even if you had
00:29:45
to encourage the confession even if you had to push it along and steer the confession in certain ways it's tough it
00:29:56
would be tough even for me for most people I think to be handed some type of a confession and and go well okay I I
00:30:06
don't know if it's 100% right but I feel like it's telling me what we the gist of
00:30:11
what we need to know no I think they need to go the opposite I think the problem with law
00:30:18
enforcement and it's just this is their job right but I think the problem with law enforcement or even just Society in
00:30:27
General is the truth has become something that nobody gives a [ __ ] about anymore for the most point I mean you
00:30:36
hear all the time people say well that's my truth that's called opinion you dumb
00:30:41
piece of [ __ ] when somebody says to me well hey man this is my thoughts These are My Views it's my truth no dumbass
00:30:51
that's called opinion right what I'm interested in is truths you see what I mean and I think
00:31:00
with these law enforcement guys you get this confession start on the opposite side I don't know if I believe Jay okay
00:31:09
I'm going to go in there and Grill him and I'm try I'm going to try to get him to confess that what he's telling me is
00:31:16
[ __ ] see what I'm saying and if he doesn't break on that end then when the floodgates do
00:31:23
open just sit back let it happen you know what I mean well and not in every case I understand you know in a perfect
00:31:33
world yes I would agree 100% with that the the current system that we have is that's not their job it's it's okay I've
00:31:43
I've found a guy a suspect that I cannot rule out and I have evidence to say he is the guy he is the killer here you go
00:31:53
prosecutor this is your case no no no no but hold on and both of these cases Jesse Miss Kell Kelly at first is not
00:32:02
one of the killers right right right noon Sayad case Jay is confessing and telling you somebody else
00:32:13
is the murderer that's when it becomes serious because now you have to attack this
00:32:19
person you have to try to get them to confess that what they're saying is [ __ ] because you have another man's
00:32:25
life on the line it's different if you bring in Daman eckol or you bring in Adon and you go hey you want to confess
00:32:34
yes I do officer I killed them I'm the murderer okay you're at that point it's hard to get a confession we know that
00:32:43
right M at that point that person saying that I think you go okay well explain this and all the stuff that they're
00:32:50
going to tell you is going to be damning and damning and damning and and it's going to build your evidence build your
00:32:55
evidence but what I'm saying is in both of these cases we have these confessions
00:33:00
happening that are involving other individuals and at first the cops are just going that's it we got it that's
00:33:07
the break and and yes maybe it's not their their job now but it should always be their job no but what I mean by that
00:33:17
is their jobs to investigate and to make arrest what I'm getting at is that there
00:33:22
there's a prosecutor a judge a jury and a defense attorney that that's their job
00:33:27
that's their portion of what's going on you know they we don't arrest somebody and then they're marched right into
00:33:34
prison and left there for the rest of their life after the police slapped the cuffs on them no I understand that so
00:33:40
but but but but okay if that's all they're supposed to do right the other stuff is the prosecutor the other stuff
00:33:47
is the defense attorney the other stuff is the jury the other stuff is the judge
00:33:51
if that's their job and the police are just supposed to collect the information then why in both these cases
00:33:57
are the are the cops leading the witnesses why are they taking down confessions that they're altering why
00:34:05
are they discussing the cases for hours and hours on length before they hit record cuz by your definition that's not
00:34:13
their job their job is to just collect collect the data present it to these The Well of course yeah their
00:34:22
their job's not to manufacture evidence it's to collect evidence I didn't say that they're right I say that they're
00:34:27
right I'm talking in in the grand scheme of things as far as the Law and Order relationship goes no no I understand
00:34:35
that but what I'm saying is we need to put back into this idea that there is a truth and let's get to that that will
00:34:42
lead us to everything else but also when you have confessions that are coming against other
00:34:50
individuals don't lead those don't don't fabricate those statements that's it's another man's life you see what I'm
00:34:58
saying it's just different yeah I'm not I'm not arguing with you everybody agrees that the confessions in both
00:35:04
situations are completely wrong and there's nobody arguing that and anybody that would argue that is I mean I
00:35:12
wouldn't murder some field I wouldn't murder somebody but if somebody falsely confessed and put me involved in a crime
00:35:21
oh man I'd start thinking about murder a lot you know I mean can you imagine you're just sitting at your
00:35:29
house one day cops come knocking on your door hey what are you doing here officer
00:35:35
oh you're under arrest for the murder of you know what I mean MH can you imagine it's like my worst
00:35:42
nightmare well okay so and then that's what makes being aggressive towards the West Memphis
00:35:50
3 uncomfortable you know because if if we are to believe that there was an injustice done then that means that
00:35:58
those three guys that spent a lot of their life in prison were innocent therefore they are victims too in this
00:36:06
whole situation and back to the uh confession you know when we talk about Jesse Miss Kelly's con quote unquote
00:36:14
confession the weird thing here is you know Jay's situation and Jesse are different in the aspect
00:36:22
of you know just who they are their personality right so where we have Jay who sits down and might you know
00:36:30
everybody can be easily manipulated there's just people that are easily manipulated and then there are those
00:36:37
that are not I don't know Jay well enough to give you a bearing on to have a bearing on what his personality is but
00:36:44
as far as Jesse Melly goes the weird thing with him is you can almost get him to start off
00:36:53
the confession without even leading him at all and what I mean mean by that is everybody that that has spoke toward his
00:37:01
character before he was arrested and before he was tried for this had always said Jesse was the type of dude that he
00:37:08
liked to help out he he would always want to help in any situation right okay so we bring in this guy this kid to be
00:37:18
clear we bring in this kid and what have we told him before we sit down and you you saidwell what would it what would it
00:37:25
sound like if without saying a word to this guy we just hit record what what what would he say yeah and the thing is
00:37:33
with Jesse mcell I don't know that we could have an idea of what it would be because I get the feeling like if you
00:37:39
just told him and I'm sure this is let's say this was the bare minimum that they
00:37:44
told him I think it would still steer his thoughts and his words from the get-go all you have to do is say hey we
00:37:52
brought you in because we think you know something we know that you know Damen Eckles and and Jason Baldwin but
00:38:00
right there you're steering the that's what I mean that's what I'm getting at with him with his personality that's all
00:38:05
it takes we think somebody should have stopped at some point and said you know what
00:38:10
gentlemen I don't think this boy is all there I think you know he's only operating on
00:38:18
like three cylinders right and I think I think they should have but again what happens is they're
00:38:26
just trying to get their arrest we gota if we get their arrest it goes away right nobody's going to be hounding us
00:38:34
anymore you know what I mean yeah but you you we do have to keep in mind and and look it's completely wrong it's
00:38:42
irresponsible every there's there's not enough words to say about it the problem
00:38:46
is though that there are people out there that you cannot convince that somebody would confess to
00:38:54
something that they didn't do [Music] don't don't that it's a lot easier to confess that somebody else did
00:39:04
something no but you know what I mean right but in both these instances the person confessing has some form of
00:39:11
involvement okay so what what I'm getting at and this is this is just a scientific fact that there are people
00:39:18
out there that that so this is what we call real truth right there are people out there that cannot be convinced
00:39:25
otherwise that that people wouldn't confess to something that they didn't do which is just not true that if they gave
00:39:32
some form of confession whether you like it or not they had some form of involvement which I think at the first
00:39:38
crime con there was a interrogation room when they put you through the ringer yeah and they wanted to kind of prove to
00:39:45
you hey we could talk you into telling you us that you did something yeah that you didn't do it's a whole different
00:39:52
world though I mean you go in there and and you're you're less than human that's
00:39:58
just that is the the way it works I mean once you get in those cuffs you are less
00:40:04
than human and you have to protect yourself if you're in law enforcement so you can't I
00:40:12
mean I think they're for the most part just doing what other individuals would but man once you got those cuffs on you
00:40:20
and once they get a little little jacket on you little little pants that you don't like it
00:40:27
matches but it's uncomfortable scratches the privates but what I'm saying is once
00:40:32
you take you from that room now I know that these guys weren't in their confession rooms all
00:40:38
the time that way but there's a lot of individuals that they arrest put you in cuffs they put you in a room they let
00:40:44
you sit there for a couple hours you know sweat it out there's there's a lot of people that would
00:40:52
confess to something that they didn't do oh yeah and then and again it's just what but I just find
00:41:01
that with these two cases two huge cases um the similarity there and really I mean if you could
00:41:11
just figure out if Jesse Melly is telling the truth or if he's not you you solve that part of the the case and same
00:41:19
way with Jay you know we know that he's a liar yes but if we could but if we just hit record from the beginning what
00:41:26
would he what would he have said and then people always say to me well but Jay CH changed his story multiple times
00:41:34
well was that Jay changing the story or was that the cops going back and saying we
00:41:39
need this to happen instead of this to happen we need you to be in this area hey uh Jay we know that that's not true
00:41:47
because of the cell phone pings well maybe the cell phone pings were wrong and the problem is with with the problem
00:41:54
with Jesse Miss Kelly is he's just he wasn't smart enough to I mean he thought he was going to get
00:42:05
money so he could buy a truck I I don't think he was smart enough to I think anybody on the other side
00:42:14
could they could have probably said Jesse did you do it yes I did Jesse we know you didn't do it that's right I
00:42:20
didn't do it I think that's how that would have went well if he's innocent then his curse is being helpful you know
00:42:27
it's it's his curse is trying to do the right thing even even though you didn't have any involvement you know if if he
00:42:36
is innocent right but I I just I'd really like to hear what Jay story was from the
00:42:44
beginning cuz I just think that would change things would change possibly everything mhm and then
00:42:52
also I think here's the other issue too is how many people say you you ask what this new piece of evidence is what this
00:42:59
new lead is it probably is an old lead that they just didn't follow because they spent so much time falling this
00:43:05
other [ __ ] it's just like when with the Adon Sayad case I'm trying to constantly
00:43:11
say that so we can stay on track but with that case you have somebody that is dating the victim that
00:43:21
she was supposed to see that day work at a place he never worked and established his own
00:43:31
Alibi and was that not looked at because you have this liar in your chair willing
00:43:37
to say anything as long as you point him in that direction well going off of memory here I thought they looked at the
00:43:46
the uh time cards from from that shift that he worked that's what they tell you well well no no but but what I'm getting
00:43:54
at is the individual had it he had a time card right right every time card that that
00:44:04
individual ever used was electronic except for that one day when he worked in a location he never worked and it was
00:44:13
handwritten and it was signed no eyewitnesses no eyewitnesses but one a supervisor the problem with that
00:44:22
supervisor dating his mother conflict of interest well but the other the other thing
00:44:28
though too it's my understanding he would have had some um he he wasn't just a my understanding
00:44:36
he wasn't just a low-level employee that he was a manager or supervisor himself meaning that look okay if my alibi is a
00:44:43
time card but I'm also in charge or I have access to alter that information that alibi is
00:44:51
not so great you know what I mean right and in my eyes it's not nothing you know
00:44:58
it's wait a second you have the ability to create this H I'm just going to go with the idea that you did create it now
00:45:06
let let's get some eyewitnesses if you did work in this location there would have been multiple eyewitnesses that
00:45:12
would have remembered you because you never worked there they would have said who's the new guy you know what I mean
00:45:18
well he could have even been there that day and but not for the length of time that he stated exactly you know so
00:45:26
exactly right so on your birthday you are exactly right It's Tricky but here's here's you know you you keep going to ad
00:45:34
on I keep going back to West Memphis 3 he but we're just we're having fun so listen to this this is something that
00:45:40
that drives me crazy and I can't imagine like you know how when you when you think you've looked at a case a dozen
00:45:47
times and you're like well there's nothing else I can learn about this situation right and you keep learning
00:45:52
though so the last time I looked at at West Memphis 3 uh and I can't remember if it was something I came across or
00:46:01
read somewhere or however I've stumbled upon this I did the the just the fact that there were two Jason Baldwins
00:46:09
living in that same area at the same time blew my mind completely not because Jason Baldwin's a you know an extremely
00:46:17
unique name it's just the fact that okay you have all these officers and investigators out talking canvasing the
00:46:26
talking to everybody in the neighborhood talking to people in daman's neighborhood so on and so forth and any
00:46:32
statement where you take the name Jason Baldwin down in your notes were they specifically asking the individual
00:46:39
that's giving them information which Jason Baldwin are you talking about right are you talking about Jason
00:46:44
Baldwin a or Jason Baldwin B because it gets very confusing when you have two guys with the same name and I say funny
00:46:54
thing I only I mean funny in a in a weird way right right but you know we I mentioned that questionnaire that gell
00:47:01
came up with for the officers to ask everybody gel is such a character when they you know what's weird too is you're
00:47:09
going to steer me down a different path um there's like there's a lot of people that are extremely angry at gel I don't
00:47:17
know what it is I'm not saying I like the cut of his jib or anything like that no he's a bad cut I mean I I right but I
00:47:24
have a hard time like hating him for some reason like you know like FY Malik easy to hate I don't know what it is
00:47:31
about gell that that I don't find myself hating him well first of all ease up on
00:47:36
the dead son uh second of all he's dead put a little respect on his name um here's the
00:47:47
problem with gel is um he thinks he's the smartest man in the room and he thinks he knows
00:47:57
everything and that's the problem with them that's why when you know uh on a scale of 1 to 10 how good is your case
00:48:06
11 right you're a [ __ ] Son Well I use [ __ ] I like some interviews I've seen with him uh you know 10 years later 15
00:48:17
years later where he says stuff like I if I could go back in time and change one thing in my career it would be I
00:48:24
should have never said he's it was just dumb that I said that he said it like something that popped in his head and he
00:48:30
was just excited that they made an arrest and he and he did a dumb thing yeah and look I mean the here's the
00:48:36
thing it's like you said a lot of these individuals will watch that and go well he's kind of a pop his ass and all this
00:48:42
stuff here's what here's what we do know about Kel is he was trying he was doing
00:48:48
the best he could I believe right again maybe with some blinders on no you're right but who's
00:48:55
doing the best he could because there's three boys that died yeah three 8-year-old boys we're not talking you
00:49:03
know it's just there there's a reason why there's children cases that people skip they don't listen to those well
00:49:11
keep in mind what what did we say on our show um it was like 18 19 21 days after
00:49:18
the murders before he received the autopsy back right like and and he was asking them time and time again hey I
00:49:25
need this information so we can investigate this case is getting colder and colder by the day yeah can you
00:49:31
imagine these are the individuals that had to go and pull them out of the water and he's then told hey um we can't give
00:49:40
you the autopsy just yet when it's done we'll give it to you and then he even has to come back like two weeks into the
00:49:46
investigation and say to the corner to the medical examiner and say well if you can't give us the autopsy at this time
00:49:53
can you at least answer these questions question for me and the the medical examiner is like well can you submit
00:49:59
them in writing and I'll get them back to you and it's like [ __ ] gel was playing with with two arms tied behind
00:50:06
his back now I do fault him quite a bit for the Miss Kelly confession I mean he he he played that kid like a fiddle
00:50:20
and um I was in Texas for the last week so fiddle is in my vocab uh shoot what was I saying okay so
00:50:30
we talked about Jason Baldwin there being two of them oh yeah the questionnaire the questionnaire so when
00:50:36
Damian was asked those same questions one of the questions was who do you think did this or who do you think would
00:50:44
know who did this something along those lines I don't know Verbatim what it was but his answer his answer was Jason
00:50:52
Baldwin which is weird because is that a is is that Damen Eckles being funny and
00:50:57
being like Oh jokingly I I I know my best friend's Innocent but I'm going to bring up his name just to be a jackass
00:51:04
right or or or does he know that you're questioning both of us anyways and at this point I'm tired of you questioning
00:51:10
us so no but the rumor is that the other Jason Baldwin he had had run-ins with Damien had had run-ins with that dude
00:51:19
and and he was kind of a known to be a violent dude uh and he was can you imagine he
00:51:24
was like a big bu if Jason Baldwin was responsible for the murders but it was the other Jason Baldwin right the big
00:51:30
bully Jason Baldwin and it's the younger Jason Baldwin that solves the case ooh all right my my head just exploded I
00:51:41
can't I can't do anything else I'm G shotgun this beer all right well happy birthday God you're old extra crispy
00:51:51
everybody thinks you sound like an old fat man and look me up online I'm I'm quite fit fit like a fiddle that's right
00:51:57
he's actually fit as a fiddle he's very he's as fit as a fiddle very trim follow us on Instagram so you can
00:52:04
see the very trim crisp crispy konel extra [Music] [Applause] crispy