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[Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who when he left for college told his dad okay
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you're the man of the house now he is the captain boy how he cried it's good to be seen it's good to see you thanks
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for listening thanks for telling a friend ah this is great stuff captain today we are very happy to be featuring
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scissor kick by Kings County Brewers collective Casey BC this is a double dry hopped up I PA garage grade four and a
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half bottle caps out of five another great brew from some of our best crew here's a shout out to Becky in
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Redmond Oregon and the big shouts of Dan and Valley Village California all right here's a shout out to Abigail
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and Mechanicsville Maryland and a big cheers mates to Michael and Oslo Norway next up we have Susanne and Eric in
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this show and sign up now yeah bastards and that's enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a
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chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] one of the high-priority leads the FBI
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is checking and Harry a man resembling the drawing of the suspect he left his job last Friday has not returned but
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authorities will not comment further on that Amy disappeared from the shopping center a week ago today and today FBI
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agents and Bay Village police were back in the center talking with people who might have been here then Amy reportedly
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left Bay Square with a man she believed to be a friend sometime between 1:00 and
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4:00 p.m. last Friday the shopping center was busy but few who were here remembered anything unusual about the
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man and the girl what went on was a ploy that was developed and carried through and it looked like a natural action
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going on it didn't look out of the ordinary at all today in that same 1 to 4 p.m. time frame
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officers were trying to jog memories of shoppers to possibly recall something from a week ago
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that they did not consider important then [Music] police want anyone else who was here
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last Friday afternoon to call them regardless of whether they believe they saw anything
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police also are seeking other children who might have been contacted by phone as Amy was by a man as a friend seeking
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the child's help in buying a gift for a parent you have had some of those yes we
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had how many aware of at least three perhaps more John Harrington Channel Freeman earlier this year in episodes
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308 and 309 titled Amy Mahalo Vic that was from June of this year we were able to do a detailed timeline of this
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case this is an unsolved abduction assault and murder case of a ten-year-old girl 10 year old Amy maja
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Levesque this weekend unfortunately will mark a sad anniversary it will now be 30
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years to the day that Amy was abducted taken from a small shopping plaza that was just walking distance from her
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middle school the abduction was not a violent one Amy did not scream this was not a snatch-and-grab situation a man
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calmly walked up to her and she left with this grown man this was witnessed by two of her classmates now for anyone
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who is unfamiliar with this case don't panic you don't have to go back and listen to episodes 308 and 309 before
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listening to this week's coverage we are covering this case in a way that these are pretty much standalone portions of
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what is a very very big story so what is now a 30-year timeline of a very big case you get that in depth in those
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episodes for those that don't know our setup captain you can listen to true-crime garage for free on anywhere
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that you listen to podcasts you can get episodes from the last six months or so now we have been doing this great show
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thanks to all of the one for listeners out there for four years so the older episodes you can listen to
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those for free when you download the free stitcher app go to our website to learn more yeah some would say four
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years too long now I say all that captain to point out that we did an in-depth interview with James Renner the
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only person who has authored a book that is devoted solely to Amy's case that was
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way back in March of 2016 episode 22 the purpose of this week is to discuss some
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of the suspects in this case now the information you are going to hear today comes from many sources
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this being an Ohio case the two of us have been watching this case for a very long time but one source that we will
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use often is Cleveland magazine this here is from their coverage on the ten year anniversary which says the ami
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Mahalo Vic case became the most intense search for a child in local history involving every conceivable law
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enforcement agency and an army of volunteers federal state county and local law enforcement personnel logged
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more than 60,000 official hours and thousands more off the clock hundreds of promising tips were tracked
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down and dismissed 14,000 people interviewed a hundred and twenty potential suspects investigated in
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question intensely eight thousand leads pursued and abandoned the story was featured in major newspapers and on
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national TV shows like America's most wanted and unsolved mysteries two million copies of the ami poster were
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distributed that is in all 50 states and in Europe and all the way to Australia before we get to the suspects first
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let's get into some of the known impossible movements of the killer we've talked at length about the phone call or
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calls to Amy's home setting up the meet up at the Plaza I do want to mention it sounds to me that police and FBI leaned
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toward the idea that there was more than one call to a Mia but regardless there was at least one we
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have talked extensively about the abductor choosing Friday as the meeting up day let's get into the other phone
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call the call from Amy to Margaret so for those not super familiar with the case the way this works is Margaret is
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at work Jason Amy's brother arrives home from school he calls his mother at work
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like he does every day on a typical day Amy would arrive home before Jason and Amy would call Margaret at work each day
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when she arrived home as well on this day Jason is the only one to call and he points out to his mother that Amy is not
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home this is not of great concern as Amy told her mother there was a choir tryout
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that day at school okay then there was a second call on this call again Margaret
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and Jason they determined that Amy is still not home now Margaret is a little panicked and she's going to leave work
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early but then and this is according to Cleveland magazine article at 3:40 p.m. Margaret gets the call that she needed
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it's Amy calling to say everything is fine Margaret asks how the tryout went Amy
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said okay Margaret asks she said she had the impression that amy was calling from
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home so they talked briefly and then bye-bye see you soon that was the last time Margaret ever spoke to Amy now
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before we get into the experts of what they say about this last call I want to address this first for so many years in
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fact up until the last 18 or 24 months it has always just been accepted and understood that this call was made after
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Amy was in the company of her abductor now all of a sudden after all this time people are starting to call that into
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question I get it it's interesting to ponder but it seems extremely unlikely and of course we don't know for certain
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but we do know class got out at 2:10 that day Amy walked with friends and it only took a few minutes to get to the
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shopping plaza and most of the goodtime lines out there say that it was around 3 p.m. when a man
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approached Amy spoke to her and led her away so according to the cleveland magazine timeline we have 40 minutes
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that's a big discrepancy in time so I absolutely believe that amy was in the company of her abductor by this point I
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think the call was made from a pay phone a motel phone or somewhere the abductor
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lived or was staying the interesting thing here I think is you can put a cap on the distance that they could have
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been from the plaza at the time of this call and the maximum would be a 40-minute drive from the plaza now
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people who believe that Amy would have behaved much differently during that phone call if in the company of her
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abductor that's fair but it's possible that Amy may have been unaware that she was being abducted
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yeah let's remember this is supposed to be a secret shopping trip to get a present for her mother so she wouldn't
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want to give away the surprise yeah he could have allowed her to call and reminding her hey don't you know don't
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give up on this idea that we got this secret shopping trip to do SHhhh you can't tell your mother this now I've had
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some people question why I think that a payphone is possible or would have been possible here they point out and this is
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very obvious but very good too they point out if she was afraid if amy was afraid a payphone out in the open she
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could have just fled the abductor then and there but you and I can't than being children of the 80s we are old enough to
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remember payphones quite a bit and use them quite a bit when we were children and one thing that I want to point out
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is something that's kind of forgotten today that a lot of gas stations do you remember the pull-up payphone the one
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that was constructed in a manner that wasn't in a booth but it was out and it was in a way that you would just pull up
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with your vehicle you wouldn't even get out of the vehicle you'd pull up and you could punch in the
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number and make the phone call from sitting inside of your vehicle yeah this could have been a situation that he used
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there what we do know is that a phone call happened we can't say for certain if she was quote-unquote under his
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control you know meaning he had a gun or a knife on her or he had already expressed a
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threat to her that would have kept her under his control right but again let's think about this
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logically are you gonna take that chance have her under your control she knows this is now abduction she knows now that
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she's in some kind of danger oh let's have her call her mother or do you keep playing it cool and yeah let's call your
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mother before we go shopping right either way we do know that the call happened we can only speculate what was
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going on at the time what the experts say about this phone call Amy checking in with her mother and the abductor
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allowing this call the first lead detective on the case Jim Thompkins said quote that's critical
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it bought him an hour or more precious getaway time for the man authorities were calling the unknown male expert
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analysts also believe this event reveals important details about the unknown male
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they are certain he was standing right there and that he may have known that amy was supposed to call now this could
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be from something he learned from Amy on previous phone calls or in conversation
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on the day of the abduction or even possibly Amy threatening him if in fact by the time she figured out that he had
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abducted her he's she saying I have to call home mom and dad will be looking for me you're going to be in trouble so
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some of the experts believe that he stood there and told Amy what to say during that call the latent great FBI
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agent Robert Ressler says it tells us he was executing a bold plot that included
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Amy her family and the police pointing out that the Bay Village Police Department headquarters is right across
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the street from the shopping plaza he goes on to say this is an intelligent man presentable well-spoken this is a
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complicated personal crime when Amy's body was found in that field three months after her abduction
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the County Coroner and the FBI scientists determined that Amy had been deceased for some time
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most likely the murder had occurred shortly after her abduction probably a few days or less she was not killed
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immediately Amy did eat at least one meal after she was taken maybe more her autopsy revealed blunt-force trauma to
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the head and stab wounds to her neck it appears that the blunt force trauma on its own
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was not fatal but the stab wounds were over the years captain there have been thousands of tips and hundreds of
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suspects and in the sense we are using the term suspects very loosely some of these men were just look alike suspects
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these were leads that the police received FBI received because somebody looked like one of the composite
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sketches right and we've seen this with like the Delphi murders somebody goes hey look this guy looks just like the
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sketch or just like the photo but they live in California and you can't prove that they were in Indiana at the time
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yeah that that's why I don't like some of these suspects well and it gets difficult for law enforcement because of
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two factors one with the Amy case with the Delphi case not a lot to go on so you have to throw that sketch out there
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but they throw that sketch out to the public knowing that we're going to get a wealth of leads that are no good yeah
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you know they they only need the one good one but we're gonna get a whole bunch of people coming forward saying I
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know somebody that looks just like this guy in Amy's case and the Amy composite sketches we pointed out in our previous
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episodes technically there were four composite sketches released over a it's a little more than a one-year time
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period but there was a sketch released the first weekend and then FBI artists came in and did two sketches that appear
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on the same flier and that's the one that I refer to as like the famous composite drawing where you see the two
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individuals now it was only one man that abducted her but we have two somewhat different
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looking individuals in that famous composite sketch one two of the eyewitnesses one
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claiming that they saw a man with glasses and one claiming they saw a man without glasses so that's where the
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initial I think confusion started yeah so the first composite drawing is basically a meshing of the two
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eyewitnesses accounts they were like alright we'll take we'll take everything throw it in a blender and boom this is
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the picture that pop that comes out the FBI artist did separate one so why the reason why you're seeing two different
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composite drawings is one is from one eyewitness and one is from the other eyewitness both of these eyewitnesses
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were children 10 or 11 years old both both of these eyewitnesses were not up front and center when they saw this guy
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they were a distance away 2530 feet away and saw this man interact with Amy the thing that law enforcement points out
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and has continued to point out over the years is they think that this is a very quote/unquote general description of
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somebody that it this this is not somebody that is distinguishable right this is not somebody that would stand
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out in a crowd and that's why you get so many look-alike suspects because this kind of just looks like your average Joe
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right now investigators said that out of all of the potential suspects ever to appear on the radar screen less than two
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dozen remain priorities after acute investigating now early on on the local level
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there was rumored to be two very good suspects in fact these men they were suspects even before Amy's body was
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found suspect number one was Billy stru neck from Fairview Park he injected himself into the search efforts he
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joined the volunteers and helped to search for Amy he was questioned several times this both by Bay Village Police
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Department and the FBI his story was checked and then double-checked according to Cleveland magazine Billy
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was found to have serious personal problems both medical and emotional but all unrelated to Amy's case
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after Amy's disappearance he consumed a lethal amount of ethanol dry gas and died three days later
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right but to be clear they believe this was on purpose and this was technically a suicide yes an FBI agent Robert
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Ressler who was briefly involved in the case questioned this suspect personally Ressler maintained that he had a gut
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feeling that Billy Stearn act was hiding something Ressler later cited this suicide as a
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possible indication of guilt and wrestler's book whoever fights monsters Ressler says stru neck was a good
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candidate to be the one they were calling the unknown male now all other investigators insist that he was not the
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guy Stephen ed er who was a supervisory special agent for the National Center for the analysis of violent crime said
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after his death meaning through knack we had access to his home and belongings FBI agent dick ran ads there was not a
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shred of evidence for this or any other crime etter says that Billy Stearn act quote simply didn't have the capacity to
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commit this type of crime some in the local community believe he still could have been the guy we covered this angle
00:21:01
of the investigation in depth on our other show off the record yeah now I have a couple issues with the detectives
00:21:08
the investigators saying that they don't think Billy was capable of doing this because most people probably wouldn't be
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capable of dying from a suicide by ingesting gasoline right gas so that takes a determined individual and I also
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think just his involvement in the search the involvement in the investigation the
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contact with the mother and and like you said their big thing is but once he died
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from this suicide and Ressler is saying well I believe he's basically saying right
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because there's a suicide he believes that Billy had something to hide it might have been an indication of
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guilt then he was overcome by guilt or he was afraid that he was going to be arrested and people were gonna find out
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what kind of monster he was and he's gonna have to spend the rest of his life behind bars any number of those reasons
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or all them together would have been enough for this individual to commit suicide is what Ressler believes right
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and then so now you have these investigators go well he's dead now and so we can investigate his property but
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we didn't find any evidence of any crime I don't know why but my gut has always told me that this crime was the first
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uh-uh as far as a killing would go by this individual there might be some inappropriate touching or looking or
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possibly even exposing themselves to younger individuals but to me this is a this is a one-time thing possibly never
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going to happen again and and so that would lead me to believe well look at somebody like Billy and he makes a
00:23:05
really good suspect and then there you go well what we investigated his house and his property and all that stuff and
00:23:11
we didn't see any sign of a crime well but here's what we do know we know that there's a crime scene I would call it
00:23:20
crime scene where he abducted her even though she went willing I'd still call that a crime scene and then we know that
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she went into a vehicle to me those are the two crime scenes and then plus where
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her body was found those are the three places that we know we don't have much evidence to suggest that she went back
00:23:42
to his house or way to anybody's house mm-hm so I'm just saying that you can be searching in this location but it's like
00:23:51
again what if a Heuer saying what if the phone call was made from a hotel or motel and yeah so it's like you wouldn't
00:24:02
find any evidence at his because he never took the victim back there mm-hmm so look we can't we could
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sit here and spin our tires all day and try to figure out why we have the FBI and we have other agencies later saying
00:24:20
that he Billy Stearn AK is not our guy they're not going to give us all those reasons what I will say though - right
00:24:27
but it's not as clear that we we don't have like some strain of DNA that we can test to make sure that it's it's Billy
00:24:34
or not Billy right correct there is physical evidence in this case but we do not have we do not have DNA evidence
00:24:42
that we can test in the sense of current types of investigations so but but here's here's the thing we got it we got
00:24:51
to keep in mind while we're going through the suspects okay so these same the same investigators or at least the
00:24:58
same agencies are on record over the years as saying we're not going to 100% rule out anyone and we hear that like
00:25:08
with the Delphi case now we can take that for their word we can take that for what that is supposed to mean we don't
00:25:16
know exactly what that means behind closed doors and behind these closed door meetings that they're having
00:25:21
regarding the suspects when they say that look I I think that if we're if we were going to create a top-10 list of
00:25:31
top 10 suspects in this case I didn't just go through and pick out suspects that were mentioned in the
00:25:38
newspaper or mention and local rumor or anything like that I went through there was there's more than ten of those I
00:25:44
went through and I picked out ones that I believe should remain on some kind of top ten list now this is just our own
00:25:51
little garage list here but I would leave Billy strewn AK on that list until I had further information to lead me to
00:25:58
believe that they are in fact right that he's not their guy they could have come
00:26:02
across some things to say that he had a 100% ironclad alibi right for that day we don't we don't know that because
00:26:09
that's never been said in the public they also one thing that I do want to to comment directly on though is where they
00:26:18
say we simply don't believe that he had the capacity to commit this type of crime
00:26:24
now you pointed out that he consumed ethanol and killed himself and that takes a certain something I guess but it
00:26:33
takes us something well but what what they may mean here in this is not so much that he couldn't have physically
00:26:41
committed this type of crime they may firmly believe that he was of an emotional state or he was he had these
00:26:50
personal problems they may fully believe that he could have physically committed
00:26:54
this type of crime he wouldn't have been able to not crack or not tell someone or
00:27:00
not comfort you see what I mean like that right not only did this crime happen but the person as far as we know
00:27:07
has also never confided in anyone never confessed to it never never had a mental
00:27:12
break in just and just came clean or or freaked out so that might be what in fact that they mean on this and again
00:27:21
though yes there there is a crime scene that we are unaware of there was a place
00:27:27
that she was killed that's the missing puzzle piece here but what we have dick Wren saying is there was not a shred of
00:27:35
evidence for this crime or any other crime that they could find at his home or in the belongings that they were able
00:27:42
to view now there is local rumor in the area that and we have wrestler who's on record saying this I don't know that
00:27:52
it's in fact true but we have local rumor that the family removed his items or had access to his apartment before
00:28:04
law enforcement did after his death because they weren't right they weren't fully aware that he was dead at that you
00:28:11
know immediately after his death it took some time for that word to travel to them before they went
00:28:16
in and looked at his apartment so there's local rumor that it's like a it's a really good family secret you
00:28:26
know a best kept family secret that Billy's runic did in fact kill Amy Mahalo Vic and his whole family knows
00:28:32
and they know about it because they were able to view all of his belongings but what we would know later is that there
00:28:38
are things missing from the crime scene there were items that Amy had on her person that have never been found never
00:28:45
been located and we know for certain from dick wrens statement that they didn't find those items in the
00:28:51
belongings or in the space that they were able to view regarding Billy's Runet right which makes me wonder if the
00:28:58
crime scene was a vehicle those items could have been left in that vehicle that vehicle could have been discarded
00:29:04
with all those items but one of the things I like about Billy is when she went missing him was a suspect when her
00:29:12
body was found he he was a suspect and I believe today he still is a really good
00:29:17
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GC alright we're back cheers mates cheers to everyone so suspect number two and in fact he may have been one of the
00:33:59
very first suspects even more so than Billie strewn egg he worked at the horse stable where Amy went horseback riding
00:34:07
on the weekends some say he looks like the composite sketch personally I think that is debatable
00:34:16
I would say his appearance was vaguely similar to one of the composite sketches so this is at the Holly Hill Farms
00:34:24
riding stable where he works amy was an avid horse rider she took lessons for two years and her favorite
00:34:31
horse at Holly Hill was named razzle Holly Hill farms which is no longer there but was for many years in fact it
00:34:39
was just in the last few years that Holly Hill closed for good selling off all of the farmland to make room for new
00:34:47
housing developments Holly Hill farms was located on an angle road and the old address lists the farm as in Avon Lake
00:34:57
but if you look at it on a map it was very close to where several communities meet you have Avon Lake Westlake and Bay
00:35:06
Village angle road was not far from the train tracks that ran behind the Mahalo deck home
00:35:13
in fact the night that Amy went missing police and mark Mahalo Vic and friends were actually looking for Amy around
00:35:21
those train tracks that was one area that they really focused on because Amy would ride her bike there and go back
00:35:29
there and go back there with friends from the neighborhood so that was one area that if you could find her if there
00:35:35
was a reasonable explanation as to why she was missing if she was out on her own playing they thought they might find
00:35:42
her there this the the night that she went missing now at this time they're still trying to explain away why she is
00:35:54
missing right there that no one was aware of the ruse used by the predator to lure her to the shopping plaza right
00:36:01
that info was not learned by the police department until Saturday morning that's
00:36:06
when the case officially went from a missing-persons case to a kidnapping and the FBI was immediately called in now
00:36:13
most of that area back in 1989 was farmland the man that we are talking about the suspect his name was Harold
00:36:23
bound he actually lived at the riding stables where Amy went weekly this dude jumps on the radar for several reasons
00:36:33
first early on investigators were fully focused on the call to Amy's house the ruse for the meet up and abduction
00:36:41
information in the call again could offer insights to who the perpetrator was they were working off of the idea at
00:36:50
the time that the abductor may have known Amy Margaret or both persons involved with Holly Hill stables would
00:37:00
have known Amy and Margaret Margaret actually would ride horses there as well this man Harold bound he was the son of
00:37:09
the owners of Holly Hill according to what I could find he was a Vietnam vet and he lived in an apartment above the
00:37:17
garage at Holly Hill it seems that he was an avid hunter stories have been told of persons going to the stables for
00:37:26
riding lessons and seeing Herald what they said was he's wandering around and camouflage
00:37:32
with a bow and arrow mm-hmm some I think thought this was weird maybe I mean maybe he was just hunting really from
00:37:41
the stories I could find about his behavior it's really a mixed bag right so some of the girls at Holly Hill said
00:37:48
things like we thought he was creepy even before Amy went missing others said he was strange but thought
00:37:56
that he suffered from PTSD from the war years later his brother Greg would say that Harold was a suspect for a couple
00:38:05
of reasons Greg says law enforcement said that Amy was taken away in a blue pickup truck the farm owned a blue
00:38:13
pickup this from my understanding was a shared farm vehicle and Greg says Harold
00:38:19
came home late on the night that amy was abducted Harold bounds parents who owned the farm
00:38:26
and lived on the property this kind of adds to to the whole scenario here they were actually out of town when she was
00:38:35
abducted they were down in Florida for that weekend which would make make sense you know parents are out of town that's
00:38:41
where you're staying this is a perfect opportunity right and we both believe that the abductor picked that Friday for
00:38:49
some reason law investigators also said here's a guy that probably left work and
00:38:55
then probably didn't return so but that that would still put him in that category right right and to be clear I
00:39:05
believe in that clip that we heard there's they're talking about a different individual not Harold bound
00:39:11
right right right but the interesting thing here is and he lives on that property and works there his parents are
00:39:19
the owners they're gone they're out of town yeah there would have been other people in and out of Holly Hill farm
00:39:25
that day that weekend but he doesn't really does he need to be accounted for no right I mean he becomes it goes as he
00:39:35
pleases correct now James Renner says when he first he actually interview or spoke to Harold on at least two
00:39:44
occasions he says that when first asked Harold says he didn't know Amy from any of the other students at the stable then
00:39:53
later Harold tells Renner a very specific story about a time that he saw Amy at the stable and asked her a question so
00:40:02
this is completely different stories from the same guy about the same situation two completely different
00:40:08
answers one to say I wouldn't have known her from any of the other girls to then
00:40:13
go into a very specific story about a time where he had an interaction with Amy right Harold was questioned by the
00:40:20
FBI the day after Amy was abducted well that's what we say I'm a little unclear here captain if it was in fact that
00:40:29
Saturday because remember that V I was called in that Saturday it says that Harold was interviewed the day after she
00:40:36
was abducted but it could have been that Sunday regardless it's going to be that
00:40:40
first weekend he's questioned very early on during this whole situation he's questioned at his apartment and he did
00:40:49
allow the FBI agents and the officers to come into his apartment and he also allowed them to look around yeah not
00:40:57
only look around his apartment but also look around the farm property and inside
00:41:01
of his parents home the FBI agents left and when they left they took nothing with them
00:41:08
the feds questioned Harold bound multiple times the first week that Amy was missing Harold did not like the
00:41:15
treatment from law enforcement that he was getting so he gathered up some of his things and he went and checked
00:41:23
himself into a local VA hospital some suspect he was trying to put up a wall between him and law enforcement ray his
00:41:33
brother says that Harold believed that they were trying to pin this abduction on him
00:41:39
and he he was he got afraid and so he went and checked himself into this VA hospital well yeah and think about this
00:41:47
way you're working on this farm you come back from war you know you're a little off or maybe you don't know you're a
00:41:53
little off you're working around a lot of children and one of them comes up missing mm-hm
00:41:59
and and maybe and you're kind of considered by at least some of the students to be the weird guy for the
00:42:06
creepy guy right but how many times you know as a school had a janitor where the
00:42:12
guy is nothing but nice but kids create you know rumors all that guy's a little strange no he's not being strange is
00:42:21
this saying hello to you or saying hi to you but but those rumors and speculations grow over time too well and
00:42:33
that's the thing too the the I wanted to point out where some of the kids at Holly Hill claimed the guy was creepy or
00:42:41
doing weird things sometimes things are just weird because you're a child and you don't understand a situation right
00:42:49
you know like you see this dude that's wandering around in camouflage and he has a bow and arrow and you're like
00:42:54
what's that guy always doing here right and and then but but as an adult somebody would know a couple things one
00:43:01
he he lives on the property so he should be there there's no reason for him not to be there right - he's a hunter and
00:43:08
this is this is a large property that his parents owned this is private land it's farmland
00:43:14
he is allowed to hunt there right you know so as an adult that doesn't seem so weird as a kid not gonna lie man if I
00:43:24
show up to ride a horse and there's some dude walking around stealth like in the
00:43:28
woods and camouflage with a bow and arrow I'm going I'm staying away from that dude yeah or the fact that every
00:43:34
time you show up he's there you go hey hey well why is this guy always here why is he always at work oh well he lives
00:43:41
there or take this a scenario where a guy comes in to clean an area and maybe doesn't say hello to the kids because
00:43:49
he's trying to stay out of the way some kids will take that as all this guy's being really creepy you didn't say hello
00:43:57
yeah so where we look at Harald bound and say does he look guilty does he sound guilty I go with looking guilty I
00:44:07
would say no but sounding guilty I think yes because of the that to me if if in fact
00:44:14
that's true the in one conversation he claims to not have known Amy at all and then another conversation says he had
00:44:23
direct interaction and names her specifically right but that's that sounds a little weird but that's not
00:44:30
coming from law enforcement or investigators says yeah from James run and you never know it could have jogged
00:44:36
his memory but you also kind of think well if I lived on a property where a young girl frequented and she went
00:44:44
missing and then was later found dead I don't know that I would forget her so I don't know that I would need something
00:44:49
to jog my memory now captain I will say this the you know back to the famous composite drawing of
00:44:57
the by the two classmates who say they saw who took Amy in my opinion out of the two suspects that we have discussed
00:45:04
today personally I think thats true neck looks much more like the composite drawing than this Herald bound right it
00:45:12
would be interested to see if the law enforcement did any kind of line up with these eyewitnesses so we do have to keep
00:45:22
one thing in mind and and and remember you were talking to me last week about misinformation and when there is bad
00:45:29
information thrown out there drives me insane in some of these cases it can hurt the
00:45:34
investigation and it makes you wonder specifically in this case is it possible that the man who took and killed Amy
00:45:43
does not look like the composite drawing and therefore someone who knows something never picked up the phone or
00:45:52
never sent an email with the tip and a name because as uncomfortable as it was to suspect a person close to them maybe
00:46:01
even someone they loved yeah it made it so much easier for that person and so much more convenient when they looked at
00:46:11
that composite and they were able to say to themselves well it can't be him he doesn't look like the composite but well
00:46:18
back to the truck thing you know eye witnesses saying that maybe she's abducted in this truck okay
00:46:26
so my thought is if you don't have a clear-cut eyewitness account of the vehicle how sure can we be of the
00:46:35
eyewitness accounts of the the man they saw with Amy right and and that that kind of bothers me a little bit yeah and
00:46:44
the way that this shopping plaza is kind of divided up you know there's some standalone buildings in the immediate
00:46:51
area there's several parking lots in the media area the thought is there's a couple of ways
00:46:59
of thinking of this one as said earlier this was not a violent abduction this was not a kicking and screaming
00:47:07
situation nobody that saw anything that day knew that she was being led away to be abducted so no one saw her get into a
00:47:17
vehicle and the thought is either just no one saw her get into a vehicle or that he potentially parked his vehicle
00:47:24
in an area that would be less visible and led her you know slightly away and then into his vehicle right it makes me
00:47:33
wonder though you're you have this a ruse going a meet me somewhere we're gonna buy a gift for your mother is it
00:47:41
possible you know here's a guy that works at the stables when Amy sees me she isn't gonna be freaked out because
00:47:50
she has seen me before and that makes me wonder yeah I get that the the issue that I've always had with that and the
00:47:58
issue that I've always had with with people presenting a suspect that Amy would have known directly personally I
00:48:07
think that it's that it's highly unlikely just in the sense that she's being told that this individual was
00:48:13
somebody else on the phone and to arrive and learn that he is not in fact who he
00:48:20
says he was makes it a you know weird from Jump Street right then right so all right well I'm getting off topic here
00:48:28
back to Herald bound so law enforcement blocked off Nago Road and they searched that area extent
00:48:35
of Lee and they captain they searched it for days during the search law enforcement found a pair of sweatpants
00:48:42
in the field or a wooded area in that immediate area these pants very well could be the same
00:48:52
ones that amy was wearing this does not help Harold one bit of course so law enforcement focused serious attention on
00:49:02
him for months they did intense surveillance exhaustive investigation all of this yielding nothing Harold took
00:49:10
polygraph tests and I want to be clear that's plural tests Harold Harold requested that he be questioned after
00:49:20
they administered truth serum the FBI complied with this he was subjected to questioning with truth serum pumping
00:49:28
through his veins now I can't tell you if he passed the polygraph test and I can't tell you what the FBI thought
00:49:37
about his answers during the truth serum questioning but I can tell you at some point they were no longer interested in
00:49:44
talking to him anymore right which makes you believe when he's checking into a VA
00:49:49
hospital this is all a part of it hey look I'm being accused of something this is a this is heinous a I see why an
00:49:58
individual would want to do anything you want to give me truths from you want to
00:50:02
give me a polygraph test I'm not involved in this I I think and we've talked about this before I think it's
00:50:10
one of the scariest things in the world to think about being accused of a heinous crime with little to no evidence
00:50:17
and how much that can affect these individuals lives can I tell you what the local rumor and
00:50:24
local thought was on Herald bound and his reaction to the end of the investigation no I'm tired of you
00:50:31
talking okay so the general thought here is that because he served in Vietnam because he served in the war that what
00:50:41
he witnessed there what he experienced there left him mentally unstable and it was it was Harold that the
00:50:49
understood this though he knew that he wasn't of mind to put up a fight in to proclaim his innocence in the in the you
00:50:59
know in a sense that made sense to him I guess and the idea is that he was living
00:51:05
at home and he was working for his parents because because of what he suffered in the war that might have been
00:51:12
the extent of his capabilities at that time and then when he became under under fire and under questioning for this
00:51:20
abduction of a girl that it that it tipped him and he said this is the only way I know how to handle this I need to
00:51:26
go get checked out and get looked at where some proclaim that that is a sign of guilt that he's trying to shield
00:51:34
himself but a run away from the problem other others suggests that it's just he's innocent and doesn't understand how
00:51:43
to properly fight this and I don't blame him I mean you're being talked to by the
00:51:48
FBI and multiple agencies and in the end what we do know took place is he was polygraphed multiple times he was
00:51:56
questioned after they administered truth serum by his own request and at some point law enforcement
00:52:02
they've never cleared him but we know that they moved on from him brain so again though I mean could you imagine
00:52:10
being accused of a crime like this this is a heinous crime against this young beautiful girl this smart intelligent
00:52:18
girl she has so much promise and and you kind of know her you you at least you might not know her that well but she
00:52:28
works where you write see their eye eyes did you direct ties to you and and the fact that once people didn't I
00:52:38
I'm flustered and these mothers mention in that phone call in the ruse and he would have likely have known her as well
00:52:46
yeah but it's just once you're accused of this or there's some speculation about you and then you're trying to
00:52:52
clear yourself and I'm sure there's some people and his family that gave him some
00:52:57
looks and he knew that they just didn't believe him and I just think that would crush her spirits
00:53:03
yeah I think for for the most part it sounds like his family had his back now regarding his brothers Greg and his
00:53:12
statements that appear in Renner's book Amy my search for her killer that statement about the blue pickup truck
00:53:22
that law enforcement said to the family that Amy was taken away in a blue pickup
00:53:27
truck that's the only place I've ever seen that statement and in fact I don't know how Greg came up with that maybe in
00:53:35
fact he was told that by law enforcement but I've also seen public statements from very early on in the investigation
00:53:42
where they were outright telling the public we do not have a description of a vehicle and on top of that when they
00:53:51
released these composite drawings and I'm sorry I'm holding these up and yelled at the captain when they released
00:53:57
these composite sketches of who they think was at the plaza that day or if they had a freaking vehicle description
00:54:03
it would have been included on that as you and I have said many times vehicle description is so much easier vehicle
00:54:09
easier to track down than a drawing of a person right and I even have a newspaper
00:54:17
article from very early on shortly after her body was found where the chief of police for Bay Village is saying I would
00:54:26
give anything for even a vague description of a vehicle we don't have that right so I don't know where that
00:54:34
information came from but it doesn't seem to be accurate it may have just been a way of cranking up the heat and
00:54:40
asking some questions and hoping that this dude might crack but the other thing that we night we need to think
00:54:46
about too when we talk about Herald being a good suspect or not being a good suspect you can be a good suspect in the
00:54:53
eyes of law enforcement for a period of time and then thoroughly checked and then no longer a good suspect in their
00:55:00
eyes right so we referenced those sweatpants that were found near or on the property of Holly Hill we we need to
00:55:10
think about this portion of the investigation to the pair of pants that were found on Holly Hill farm property
00:55:16
made Harold or someone from Hawley he'll look like they were involved we know the
00:55:23
the results of the autopsy remember when Amy was found she was found fully clothed
00:55:29
right redressed after death most likely but fully clothed those pants that were found on that property simply were not
00:55:36
hers now dick Wren when asked around the ten year anniversary about Harold bounds
00:55:43
specifically Rena said he didn't do it I'm as certain as I can be in an uncertain world is his exact quote in
00:55:52
fact yeah and back to this blue truck Phaeton first a sec you know it's it's heard one time you've seen it no other
00:56:01
time again is it is it something that was brought up by Renard that was then twisted later it's it's a possible it
00:56:10
was a statement from Harold's brother Greg to Renner right that's what I'm saying but the statement this
00:56:17
conversation that happened what was there a twist and turn to get there you see what I'm saying and and just because
00:56:25
somebody put it in his book does not mean it's a hundred percent accurate this is all I'm putting out there well
00:56:32
yeah and that's why I said we don't know where Greg came up with that information
00:56:36
right you know that I mean he could have it could be total fantasy for all we know and that conversation happened 15
00:56:46
years after the abduction I think a lot of things get changed and distorted and and and misremembered now from the
00:56:57
articles that came out around the 10-year anniversary in regards to both of the suspects that we have discussed
00:57:05
so far strewn AK and Harold bound the this is the the statement they gave at the 10-year the 10-year mark it says
00:57:15
investigators are virtually unanimous in the certainty that neither one of these
00:57:20
individuals was involved in the abduction or murder of a Mima Holloway well the other thing that I like about
00:57:27
this individual is that there's there was other phone calls made and there was a set of girls or or
00:57:37
one girl that actually rode horses and those stables so there would be the connection of the phone calls
00:57:45
mm-hmm yes and again it's it's we're unable to determine which in fact phone calls were connected to Amy's amy's case
00:57:55
[Music] [Music] [Music] thank one and all for your support your love and your concern without which I
00:58:17
would not have been able to make it through this past year a year ago today just across the street from the tree on
00:58:23
the granite marker amy was abducted from a Bay Village Shopping Center a little more than three months later her body
00:58:30
was found let's fill the void that her passing has left with positive thoughts with a smile
00:58:37
on her face and say she blessed our life for a while unfortunately she is gone but now we must live on City and civic
00:58:47
leaders and law enforcement officials spoke of love and community together nasaan the Amy Fund and the continuing
00:58:53
search for the child's killer and we're not going to give up until we see this thing through
00:59:00
amy has touched our lives she will live forever the monument says that Amy lives
00:59:05
on in our hearts Amy pulled a community together as a family and we still are a family
00:59:12
supporting each other loving each other we know that Amy is in God's love and care and his love and care are with us
00:59:21
there was morning and there were drawn faces and there were some tears but this was not a ceremony of sorrow but a smile
00:59:28
on thank you for coming in Bay Village John Harington Channel 3 News [Music] simply safe makes home security easy
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01:00:26
tomorrow be good be kind and don't let it [Music] [Applause]