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Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1 888 [Music] freedom
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[Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me in the garage as always my friend who I have to say is like the
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Paul Simon of the show still C crazy after all these years he is the captain well you are my gar funcle sir good to
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be seen and it's good to see [Music] you today Captain we are drinking green by Treehouse Brewing Company garage
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friends we have Rebecca and Victoria Australia also there's crystal in Alberta Canada next up we have Dugan in
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Christine says she knows everybody loves the captain but Nick is her favorite of
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button I never get tired of hearing people talk about listening to the show while they commute to work or listening
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why they're getting paid at work so for all you people out there that are listening at work or on your commute or
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doing dishes or whatever the heck you're doing we like your JY all right Captain
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season 3 coming toward an end here but we wanted to go the extra mile for you guys cuz we know you're out there you're
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working hard you're doing your thing it's the busiest time of year right the holidays are upon us and we wanted to
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show our dedication to you we're in the garage we locked ourselves in here for the whole damn week thank God there's
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way of supporting you guys we appreciate it and that's enough of the business all
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right gather around grab a chair grab a beer and let's talk some true [Music] [Music]
00:04:58
crime [Music] in Seattle this morning police are hunting a mass murderer believed to have
00:05:32
killed as many as 21 prostitutes in the last 22 months David burington reports been called The Green River
00:05:40
Killer ever since the first bodies five of them were pulled from this River since then seven more bodies have been
00:05:46
discovered nearby all those of young prostitutes according to police and the number of missing increases steadily two
00:05:53
were added to the list this week all the victims work this strip near the Seattle
00:05:58
Airport fr with hotels motels and strip joints angry residents are demanding police do more to stop the killings one
00:06:07
young prostitute who operates along the strip said she's terrified every time she's picked up I don't know I'm just I
00:06:13
guess I'm just lucky that I never came across that certain freak police say the victims are similar
00:06:21
runaways very young Disturbed most were strangled their bodies left d a police task force has little hard evidence but
00:06:30
it thinks a single Psychopathic killer is responsible however it would be illogical and improper from an
00:06:36
investigative perspective to become that tunnel vision and exclude the possibility of any copycat crimes or the
00:06:43
possibility of a multiple suspect police suspect other prostitutes might be able
00:06:47
to provide leads but because of their profession they've been uncooperative David Burrington NBC News
00:06:55
[Music] Seattle police in Washington state believe they found the remains of another victim of
00:07:03
the so-called Green River Killer the victim identified Monday as 17-year-old Cindy Anne Smith was last seen in March
00:07:10
of 1984 police believe that Smith is the Killer's 37th known victim all of them women ranging from 16 to 36 years of age
00:07:20
the murders began in summer of 1982 and since then an army of detectives and a multi-million doll computer system have
00:07:27
been unable to crack the case [Music] in this country in Washington state still another victim has been identified
00:07:39
in the nation's longest list of unsolved murders the Green River killings 37 women have died nine missing all thought
00:07:47
to be victims of the same killer John Sandifer of kgtv in Seattle has the [Music]
00:07:55
latest it was a familiar routine for the Green River task force sifting through any remaining evidence at a site where
00:08:02
someone in this case three young boys had stumbled across human remains after the passage of 3 years they would not
00:08:09
find much more than a skeleton late Monday the remains would be identified as those of 17-year-old Cindy Anne Smith
00:08:17
last seen in March 1984 hitchhiking from her mother's home to that of her sister
00:08:22
in Seattle she is victim number 37 Cindy disappeared from a strip of Highway south of Seattle where no fewer
00:08:30
than 18 other young women mostly prostitutes dropped out of sight beginning in the summer of
00:08:36
1982 the first Grizzly discoveries of their bodies was along the picturesque Green River hence the name that has come
00:08:42
to represent Untold horror to many in the Northwest the Green River Murders have included victims ranging in age
00:08:49
from 16 through 36 most of their bodies have been recovered in Wilderness dumping grounds in groups of two three
00:08:56
and up to seven the Green River task force has employed up to 50 full-time detectives and a multi-million dollar
00:09:03
computer system to crack the case they have served at least two search warrants but as of this morning the killer
00:09:09
remains unidentified and Cindy Smith's disappearance was the last one in this area 3 years ago John Sandifer for NBC
00:09:17
News in Seattle in Seattle in Seattle [Music] it's the early 80s and Ted Bundy is safe
00:09:48
let's say safe behind bars right he was convicted of killing the girls at the kai Omega sorority house Not only was he
00:09:57
seen in the area prior to the crimes but he was also seen fleeing the kai Omega sorority house with the uh weapon that
00:10:06
he used to attack the women yeah the oak log and then he goes on to represent himself in trial for these murders and
00:10:16
he thinks things are going his way but everybody else has a better perception of what's actually taking place well
00:10:22
everybody else is not a sociopath and a psychopath and not only do we have the eyewitnesses that see him fleeing but uh
00:10:29
one thing that's presented in court is he had bit one of the girls while he was in the sorority house one of the young
00:10:36
women that he attacked he bit her and they were able to use the his dental records to show that it was he in fact
00:10:44
who had caused that wound you mean Theodore Bundy yeah not him but Theodore Bundy yeah so let's say he's safe Behind
00:10:52
Bars and he's on death row in Florida but Bundy's never safe Behind Bars because this like this guy is a slippery
00:11:00
cat right yeah he escaped twice uh prior to this and thank God he never escaped again and finally they must have taken
00:11:07
him seriously and saw him for exactly what he is and what we described him as the Devil in Disguise and he is behind
00:11:14
bars on death row in Florida well in early uh in the early 80s this would be July 15th 1982 there is a body that is
00:11:23
found floating in the Green River this is near uh Seattle Washington and this is where Bundy is from yeah he started
00:11:31
his murders in the state of Washington and very close to this site as well now this body is spotted um by a civilian
00:11:40
and it's underneath a bridge but it's a river you know this is moving water so you wouldn't always expect to see
00:11:46
something just floating there you would think the water would carry it however this body was snagged on growth U you
00:11:52
know things that were growing in the river at the time mhm and this would end up being Wendy Lee Coffield um and she
00:12:01
disappeared July 7th 1982 so she disappeared just 8 days before her body is found now in a very short time they
00:12:10
would end up finding five bodies in the same river and again this is the Green River and this is how this unknown
00:12:17
serial killer gets his name the Green River Killer now this killer would have to be killing with such frequency with
00:12:24
with with an an exceedingly quick frequency because short after they find the body of Wendy colfield they find the
00:12:32
these other four bodies well in one situation they find two bodies uh in the water and then in another situation
00:12:40
there's a body that is spotted and the police go down to investigate to pull the body from the river and try to
00:12:45
figure out what's going on well in the course of pulling that body from the river one of the officers uh and this is
00:12:53
uh Lieutenant rker he he actually practically steps on another body as he's going to as they're working to get
00:13:02
this other body out so as said they pull five bodies uh within a short time period in the 1982swagger
00:13:20
[Music] runaways uh so people that might have been living a higher risk style lifestyle um and yeah but you hear in
00:13:36
the trailer I mean even back then um they viewed the sex workers as almost this low lower level human I mean there
00:13:46
were they said some degrading stuff just in the news broadcast yeah and I think at in that area of the country you know
00:13:55
there are a lot of sex workers well there were back then I don't know currently what's going on uh but this
00:14:02
was it was something you know when they found a dead woman somewhere whether it be on the side of the road or in in the
00:14:09
river or near the woods or in the woods there were so many sex workers that they
00:14:14
almost kind of just have assumed immediately that this is another you know another sex worker that's been
00:14:20
killed now shortly after this the killings would not stop with these five but what would take place is they
00:14:26
stopped finding bodies in the river and started finding them near the river in wooded areas right October 1st
00:14:34
1984 there is a man on death row that is Theodore Bundy that we talked about in Florida and he writes a letter to what
00:14:42
is now the Green River task force um and let's keep in mind one of one of the people that were involved in Ted's case
00:14:52
that was hunting Ted Bundy and couldn't get to him fast enough right was Robert Keele and now he would I think I may
00:15:00
have misspoken one of our earlier Ted episodes and said that he was a FBI agent but he in fact he was a a
00:15:06
detective for King County and he would go on to work for the Attorney General's office in uh in the state of Washington
00:15:15
so naturally this would bring him after Ted's locked up and and put away in Florida this this puts Robert Keele in a
00:15:23
situation where he's assisting in the Green River uh case and he's a part of that task force now there were a lot of
00:15:30
people involved in this case and a lot of detectives this this almost mirrors bundes investigation remember we talked
00:15:38
about all these officers yeah the Ted murders yeah working together and they're they're taking in all these tips
00:15:44
and all these Clues and then they had to figure out a way to categorize everything so that they could
00:15:48
efficiently go through the information and try to link things together well this is similar where when they found
00:15:56
one body you might have one detective on the the case and then there's two more bodies well we've got to pull in some
00:16:02
more detectives and after you find body after body after body then you you have this whole group uh assisting in it and
00:16:11
and you know largely this is the Green River task force yeah and well well and the fact that with the Ted murders you
00:16:19
know especially when there's a murder taking place in one area of the country and then there's a murder taking place
00:16:23
in another area of the country you have now multiple task force not just detectives yeah and so he he writes this
00:16:32
letter Theodore Bundy writes this letter to the Green River task force and he's basically saying you know what I'm from
00:16:38
that area and you know who I am and maybe I can offer some some insight sorry to laugh well I I only say that
00:16:47
because I don't know what at the time what he is willing to say of him and his crimes mhm but clearly they know who he
00:16:54
is and things he's been capable of and he knows that they've hunted him for so long long and he's saying you know maybe
00:17:00
I can offer some insight to help you find this person and maybe at this point you know you know Ted denied his
00:17:08
involvement then he defends himself and now he's in jail he's on death row maybe
00:17:13
at this point he is just coming to the terms that this is who I am this is what I've done I might as well just accept it
00:17:22
yeah I see I go back and forth with where I think Ted's head was at at this time because remember we said there was
00:17:28
that rumor that he had spoken to his attorney and asked about you know what state would they put most likely put you
00:17:33
to death right and they the attorney said Florida and then Ted ends up in Florida commits murder CRI yeah and and
00:17:41
also crimes that he wasn't that careful about all the other stuff it seemed like
00:17:45
he was these this seemed like a a murderous Rampage yeah the kyoga or Kaya uh killings it seemed like just a crazy
00:17:56
Rampage and that said it he said set himself up to you know for people to be able to find weapon the the the murder
00:18:04
weapon and for them to have eyewitnesses so it really did seem like I'm just committing this crime so then this state
00:18:11
can put me to death yeah possibly I mean that that's the thought is if he did in
00:18:16
fact go there with that intention then he was a man that had a death wish um I personally think that beforehand you
00:18:23
know he was he was kind of dabbling and killing he was killing one at a time and
00:18:27
then this was like an addict that that ends up binge killing uh once he gets to Florida uh he offers his assistance and
00:18:36
he went in the beginning you know they're especially Keele he's a little he's a little concerned about talking to
00:18:43
Ted they definitely all the investigators do want to talk to him however they know how how manipulating
00:18:50
and what a liar in in con man yeah that Ted Bundy is so their first thought is you know what he he's just going to try
00:18:59
to play us one more time he just wants us to go all the way to Florida I mean you couldn't get any more further in the
00:19:05
United States almost when you talk about Washington State all the way down to Florida yeah he just wants us to stop
00:19:10
what we're doing go all the way down to Florida and talk to him and he's just going to BS us and give us the runaround
00:19:16
for you know days and days and days and however there's this thought that you know what even if he does try to play us
00:19:26
maybe we could go down there and even if we don't learn anything about the Green
00:19:30
River Killer maybe we can learn some things about Ted Bundy because now keep in mind there are still B to this day
00:19:38
there are bodies of bundies that have never been found mhm and so they thought you know very least case scenar worst
00:19:47
case scenario we go down there and maybe we can recover some of these victims of
00:19:51
Ted Bundy yeah on record it seems like he confessed to about 30 some sites some uh sources will say 35 is roughly the
00:19:59
Ted bunny murder count but you know you know we're not at the point where but he's he was confessing all the way up to
00:20:07
his death sentence and was that was some of those [ __ ] who knows but he he was constantly confessing I mean his
00:20:16
kill count could be in the 40s 50s who knows well and the the thing that makes me wonder about the death wish is I
00:20:24
always thought that this was a way for Ted Bundy to delay his death sentence that okay now he's on death row and he
00:20:34
you know the the end day is coming it's it's approaching and I could only imagine how fast that seems to approach
00:20:40
for somebody that can you imagine knowing the day and time that you're going to die mhm that would be awful so
00:20:48
well he deserves every right definitely he definitely deserves every minute of it but it's a strange situation to try
00:20:54
try to put yourself in that mindset so he's down there and now you know what how can he delay his death sentence
00:21:02
right so is he just talking to this task force you know in order to delay than than inevitable yeah and I mean he could
00:21:10
say you know I can I can help you with this case uh I can also assist you with finding some of the bodies that that I'm
00:21:18
in charge of that were you know things that I have done now um but but Ted ever being the con man you know he's going to
00:21:27
when you start talking to him about bodies and stuff like that he's he's never really willing to fully divulge
00:21:33
everything that he knows he's always got to keep something to himself you know one of his confessions States now we got
00:21:40
to keep in mind here when he's on death row in Florida MH and to this date you know even before he was executed he was
00:21:48
never convicted of every single one of his crimes um so one thing he would do there's there's one confession he gave
00:21:56
which I always found interesting was he would say you know in Washington I killed 11 women and young girls right I
00:22:03
killed 11 girls and young women uh here's eight of their names you know that's the kind of confessions Ted Bundy
00:22:10
would give he's never going to give you everything he's going to hold on to something um and the other thing too is
00:22:17
well then the question also becomes did he even know all the victims names well and the other thing he would do is you
00:22:23
know I oh I can help lead you to these bodies but you know I was driving a lot back then I committed these crimes in
00:22:31
multiple States you know you're going to have to give me something you're going to have to provide me with some maps and
00:22:36
I'm going to need some information from you and maybe you could show me some of the case File and I could I that might
00:22:42
help uh jog my memory so I can I can tell you where this body would be located and help you find it and maybe
00:22:49
he was also using this you know even if he wasn't involved in the case I mean you know he he had this love of reading
00:22:56
the detective books and stuff like that maybe some of this was just a way to have resources you're in this cell and
00:23:04
you're for entertainment hey I I keep talking to these police and they keep writing me and they keep visiting me and
00:23:12
they keep calling me and it's something to do well and one thing that he did when he was younger you know before the
00:23:18
well probably when these crimes first started for Ted back in Washington was he you know we talked about him working
00:23:25
on the crisis hotline you know people could call in that or suicidal or or having you know a crisis um but he also
00:23:33
worked on some form of uh it wasn't like a task force but he did like paperwork for uh rapes and sexual assaults and
00:23:42
things like that so he was kind of studying these these attacks as he was out committing them well and he might
00:23:49
get some kind of sexual gratification or sexual stimulus oh he definit from reading this stuff yeah he he had all
00:23:58
kinds of motives for wanting to quote unquote help the police he he definitely had all kinds of weird Ted Bundy motives
00:24:06
for why why he was doing this I mean like I said before and and I'll say it again I mean not a not I never found him
00:24:15
that interesting and then we started diving into him and he is complete he's a complete monster and
00:24:22
he's super fascinating you know and that's not to try to glorify him because I think he's scum of the Earth but I
00:24:29
mean this guy had some layers well they went down there with the expectation that maybe we'll talk you know we'll go
00:24:36
down there we'll talk with them once or maybe over the course of a day or two and just see what's going on and then if
00:24:42
if it is what we think it is where Ted's trying to play us and just you know mess
00:24:46
with our minds then we're just going to get out of there and ignore it however we have a duty to do and if there is
00:24:51
somebody that knows this person definitely knows more about murder than the investigators that are investigating
00:24:57
murder so we we would be a disservice to our investigation and the people of this
00:25:03
community if we don't to and furthermore as said Ted was from the area he knew the area this was a guy that was
00:25:10
constantly driving and he was putting bodies in the woods as well and that's what happened with the Green River
00:25:16
Killer he started off putting the bodies in the water and then he started putting
00:25:20
them in the wooded areas near the river well let's get into that right after a quick beer break this show is sponsored
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sign contracts with rigid data plans to tra you into a kind of forced phogy sounds pretty insecure if you ask me at
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Consumer Cellular we believe in a more consensual and healthy form of phogy free of contracts and more flexible to
00:26:37
your data needs this way you stick around not because we force you to with contracts and fees but because you love
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our phone plans like ardently love our phone plans monogamously Consumer Cellular when Freedom calls we're here
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to answer call us at 1888 Freedom Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theor I about why I
00:26:58
thought it was an Eco move few your worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic
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must be a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service
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just a list get started at angie.com that's AI or download the app today all right cheers everybody back
00:27:29
into the garage cheers the investigators that are researching The Green River Killer and trying to apprehend this man
00:27:37
uh they are down in Florida and they're going to be talking with Theodore Bundy somebody that knows murder better than
00:27:43
most um and and they want to well here's they're going to sit down and they want
00:27:48
to approach him and explain to him that we are only here to talk to you to see if you can help with this investigation
00:27:56
we're not going to put up with any of your Shenanigans we're not going to play any of your games we don't want to hear
00:28:00
a whole lot of Bundy talk we are here to see how you can help us apprehend this guy and they they almost come off a
00:28:08
little like they they give him the impression of we don't really believe you can help us like what can you offer
00:28:15
us which which I think is smart I think that's how you challenge somebody like a
00:28:20
Ted Bundy you know because Ted likes to show his bravado and he likes to show how intelligent he is and how smart he
00:28:27
is and so to challenge him almost makes him well he's a narcissist well it corals him a bit right it corals him a
00:28:35
bit and it and it makes him uh he's going to have to talk about the things that you want he's going to have to hold
00:28:41
your interest or you're going to leave you have you have no reason to talk to him other than this
00:28:47
investigation um they they would talk for hours and hours and hours and we're not going to talk for hours and hours
00:28:52
and hours so I will sum up some of the yes we are that's what we do that's what that's our our job well I'm going to sum
00:29:00
up for you uh some of the some of the bits of information that Theodore Bundy offers to the Green River task force now
00:29:08
the first thing that they he says to them now keep in mind the GRE the river man we have to talk about the river man
00:29:16
right because that's what Bundy starts to call the Green River Killer he refers to him as the river man right and the
00:29:23
investigators talking to Bundy they will they will adopt this nickname and refer
00:29:27
to him as the Riverman just not a fan of nicknames you know so Bundy says that that the Riverman MH his firsto was that
00:29:37
he would get these girls and again most of them are sex workers or presumed runaways and he would get these girls
00:29:45
pick them up on the Strip somewhere and then he would take them we don't know where and he would kill them and they
00:29:51
would end up in the river well after the first five we start to see him he's changed what he's adapted a little bit
00:29:58
he's now putting the bodies in the woods and near the river and they were having
00:30:03
a hard time finding these bodies but when they would come across one they would usually come across a second or a
00:30:09
third as well so he's dumping them in what what Bundy would refer to as clusters now Bundy it it's been
00:30:17
speculated that Bundy probably did the same thing uh when he would when he would un unload a body or two that they
00:30:24
would end up in these cluster dumps yeah and if you if you're watching The Killing season they talk about this with
00:30:29
the Gilgo Beach murders mhm and one thing that Bundy says is that you you may want to uh know that he is probably
00:30:39
the Riverman is probably returning and visiting these victims after death right and he's and he wouldn't say why but
00:30:48
he's saying that they probably would visit them and spend some time with the body well what we know about Bundy is he
00:30:55
would and this this is going to be graphic but he would have sex with the victims after they're dead uh he was
00:31:02
also known to sometimes put makeup on them um so that's where Bundy's coming from on this idea again if you know I
00:31:12
don't mean to bring up The Killing season again but some people use it as like a trophy room here's my cluster of
00:31:19
bodies so when I come back to visit I don't have to you know go a mile here and a mile there to see two different
00:31:25
victims I put them close enough to each other so when I go I can go look at my trophies MH well the the other thing too
00:31:34
is that the killer can return to the dump site not only to have sex with the corpse but to also kind of see what's
00:31:42
going on has the is the body gone is has it been moved has there been any activity in this area since the last
00:31:49
time I've been here and so it's kind of a way of checking on what's going on as well as doing these other activities now
00:31:56
at the time this really was some helpful insight to the investigators because this is not something that they
00:32:03
considered with the Green River Killer and it also taught them something about Bundy at the same time that's when they
00:32:10
started figuring out Bundy was returning to his victims and he was spending time
00:32:14
what he called spending time with the bodies and one thing to to kind of underline what the captain was saying
00:32:21
that we know about Ted Bundy was one of the sisters of of his victims a sister of one of of his victims identified the
00:32:28
body and noticed that there was makeup and finger paint on on the girl's nails andish yeah nail polish sorry and finger
00:32:37
paint well actually the book I was refe reading referred to it as finger paint they call it finger paint yeah uh well
00:32:44
these were written by by police officers that written by a man he's like hey honey are you over there finger painting
00:32:52
yourself but there was there was lipstick and there was makeup and there was fingernail polish that did not
00:32:57
belong to the victim and even though her belongings disappeared with her it you know he didn't use the he used some
00:33:05
other you know fingernail polish some other makeup that wasn't her so we know that he was doing these things another
00:33:13
method of detection that Ted Bundy was offering to the police was he was saying that this person this killer is obsessed
00:33:21
with sex and violence and so if you are desperate you know if you are in act as desperate as you are telling me you are
00:33:29
in this investigation you may want to set up some kind of surveillance operation outside of of uh pornography
00:33:37
theaters or um theaters that are showing these these horrible uh horror flicks you know where there's a slasher film
00:33:46
because back in the day you would actually have to go to a theater in most cases to watch this kind of material
00:33:52
yeah they had the trip X theaters that you could go to and again but we know with these type of killers that they
00:33:59
have this this mental uh proclivity about them that where they have it's sex and violence and it's violence and sex
00:34:07
and it's all wrapped up in one it's all in one big convoluted mess for them some
00:34:11
of them cannot cannot get it up without the violence in the sex some of them cannot they they cannot achieve whatever
00:34:19
they're looking for they can't be gratified without the sex and the violence all mixed up into one and this
00:34:25
I don't think that this was was so helpful as much as the returning to the bodies yeah but it gives you right well
00:34:32
well you got the returning to the bodies but you it gives you a a place to start
00:34:36
looking uh the the officers and Ted Bundy are not always going to agree on everything and actually one of the
00:34:42
arguments they got into was the Green River task force they they reached a point in the investigation where they
00:34:49
thought that the killings had stopped because they were finding bodies with such frequency and then all of a sudden
00:34:56
they're not finding finding bodies and they wanted to know you know Ted Bundy why would this guy stop why would he
00:35:04
stop killing we're not finding anybody and Ted says you know he's not stopped killing and they said yeah we know that
00:35:11
he has we haven't found any new bodies no they've not stopped he's not stopped killing Ted insisted that what had
00:35:18
actually happened is that the killer had adapted and that either he was dumping them in places where you just couldn't
00:35:24
find the bodies or he's slightly changed his victimology where he's no longer focusing on sex workers maybe he's gone
00:35:34
after a younger victim or now he's only going after delinquents or people that are you know young runaways well we also
00:35:42
see with serial killers also they they get invested in their own life family life or personal matters work sometimes
00:35:50
they get involved in different things and that that's also a reason why sometimes there's breaks the killings
00:35:58
and later on we would learn that two of those statements were in fact true uh that the Green River Killer did in fact
00:36:06
start seeking out younger victims for a period of time the other thing this is this is where the police thought they
00:36:13
were going to get their big break and I really think that they would have however there's there's outside factors
00:36:19
that can screw things up in an investigation now you know remember Bundy gave him the tidbit of the the
00:36:27
Killer's probably returning to the crime scene and he's probably returning to the
00:36:31
crime scene in in spending time with the bodies yeah which is sick so Ted says if
00:36:38
you really want to catch this guy this is what I would do the next time you find a body do not announce it to
00:36:45
anybody do not tell anybody that you found a body furthermore don't even remove the body don't move it at all
00:36:53
because if you if you move it at all he will know what you should do is is leave the body
00:37:01
alone and you should stake out the area and wait for him to return now this might take this might take days it could
00:37:08
you know it could take months yeah and he and he may not be coming back there just to spend time with that body it
00:37:14
could take months he could be coming back to put another body there right it could be the start of a cluster yeah
00:37:20
well the police are going to use this tactic and I really think this would have worked however there was there's an
00:37:27
outside factor involved in this investigation and as with most investigations especially one of this
00:37:34
size it's the media well what had happened was they had found a body and they had every intention of just staking
00:37:42
out the area and waiting for the killer to return however once they started their stake out and surveilling the area
00:37:49
media somehow got a hold of it I don't think that they knew in fact that there was a body there but they saw police
00:37:55
activity out out in these areas that were were compatible with what the Green River Killer was doing right and they
00:38:03
basically the the police are trying to surveil the area and the media is trying to surveil them yeah they're trying to
00:38:11
figure out why the cops are there so unfortunately this is going to shut down that operation they're not going to be
00:38:17
able to sit there and watch this body and watch this area as they're being watched by the media and you know how
00:38:23
the media are if if there's one person from the media that starts watching you well then they you know it's they're
00:38:30
like vultures they you start seeing the second and then a third and it kind of kind of gives you away it kind of calls
00:38:36
your bluff there right uh so real quick here these are some things that that uh Ted Bundy was able to assist the Green
00:38:43
River task force with uh he had mentioned that the person would return to the dump site and that he would
00:38:50
potentially spend time with the bodies he's going to come back there to dump other bodies because he's using using
00:38:56
this cluster dump uh as Ted would call it and later we would hear other serial killers call this as well as a cluster
00:39:04
dump um he had also suggested that the sex and violence is all one big thing for this guy and this is really all this
00:39:12
guy thinks about and fantasizes about and so if you are desperate then maybe you check out who's coming and going
00:39:19
from trip XX theaters or slasher films um the other thing he would he would talk about and this is something that we
00:39:25
talked about when we were discussing Ted Bundy in the last episode is he said you
00:39:30
know you are looking for somebody that drives a lot that is constantly in their vehicle you're looking for somebody that
00:39:37
that might have to acquire new vehicles more often than one would be expected because he's putting so many miles and
00:39:44
so much wear and tear on a vehicle you're looking for somebody that might need to replace the tires very often in
00:39:51
in their vehicle uh or has access to multiple Vehicles the other thing and now this was something that the Green
00:39:58
River task force already knew and they had already implemented in their investigation was that Bundy said this
00:40:04
is somebody that is very comfortable around sex workers meaning that he was a Jon that he was probably a Jon before he
00:40:11
started killing and at other times he might be a JN and not pick up a woman and kill her he he might he might return
00:40:19
her to where he picked her up from right uh that sometimes he's killing and sometimes he's not but he's somebody
00:40:26
that they are they're not afraid of seeing him on the strip and seeing him where he's picking up these young women
00:40:34
which is a statement that we knew to be true something that we knew would hold water because the task force they
00:40:41
believed you know once once the uh TV started telling everybody the the news and the media and the newspapers started
00:40:49
announcing that these sex workers are being picked up and they're being killed and they're being dumped in the river
00:40:54
and then in the woods they really believed that the killings would stop why because at some point the the
00:41:01
working girls would quit getting into vehicles and they yeah but that's not going to happen well you and I know that
00:41:08
and back then they didn't know that that this was just something they expected because they thought well this is this
00:41:14
is as bad as it can get and so what they did these workers are already living a super high-risk life anyways but the
00:41:21
investigators even took it a step further where they went down to the strip and they were were telling the
00:41:27
other they were telling the workers what was going on you know this is the stuff
00:41:31
we're seeing we're looking for a very bad man it could be two you know they at the beginning they didn't even rule out
00:41:37
the possibility of there being two killers because the killings were happen happening so fast and so often and they
00:41:45
thought you know once we once we inform the community as to what's going on that
00:41:50
this is going to slow the killer or it's going to scare the killer or it's going
00:41:53
to scare the victims the potential victims that would get in his vehicle it becomes obvious to the
00:42:00
investigators that after a while that while they're asking Ted Bundy to help them look for the Green River Killer
00:42:07
they also start to figure out that sometimes Bundy's referring to himself and what we mean by this is that you
00:42:16
know it it's not Bundy saying oh you're looking for a 5 foot 10 white guy and he
00:42:21
lives in this neighborhood and he's married or he's divorced or whatever he's not giving a specific profile of
00:42:27
the person he's just saying you know judging by the victims the number of victims and where the bodies are located
00:42:36
this is what I think this guy is doing and he can only he can only surmise what this guy is doing by either guessing you
00:42:44
know what the what the Killer's movements might be or by going back in his own history and referring to things
00:42:51
that he done or things that he would do in this situation so at some point they realize that that in some form he's
00:42:59
talking about himself and that's how you know they they really find out some more
00:43:04
of the details about you know Bundy with the uh necrofilia and uh where he you know and
00:43:11
why he left the areas that he left and in searching new areas and the way that he would find new victims they're able
00:43:17
to study a lot of Bundy's movements from Bundy's own words and at some point too
00:43:24
they they need to start having Bundy tell us where these other victims are of his you know where can we find some of
00:43:30
these bodies and he will start to tell the the investigators where to find them and tell as much as he can well I think
00:43:39
that's because he couldn't help himself yeah yeah I think and you can see it pretty clearly you know when you watch
00:43:46
some of these old interviews that he does enjoy talking about himself he enjoys the FaceTime he likes sitting
00:43:52
down and he likes people hanging on his every word mhm um and at some point there's you know he's he's got to you
00:44:00
know speak about specific victims and mention their names and where they can be found and things that he did to them
00:44:06
and how he abduct abducted them and that's why when you have these situations with these victims that were
00:44:13
not found at the time or the victims that uh were unable there no eyewitnesses and they didn't Escape so
00:44:21
they can't give us an account of what happened this is why we know that you know he was using things like uh
00:44:27
pretending to have a broken arm you know uh and things that he would do to his vehicle and ways of abducting these
00:44:33
young women so we have Ted Bundy trying to help this uh law enforcement with the
00:44:40
capture of the Green River Killer he was not successful but he gave him a bunch of information and some leads he also
00:44:47
talks more about himself and his crimes but we still have this thing looming over Ted Bundy he's going to be
00:44:53
sentenced to death by the state of Florida but before doing so he does a lengthy interview MH um with a lawyer I
00:45:02
believe or I believe this was with James Dobson yeah yeah and so what what was interesting about this was about 20 30
00:45:10
minute interview maybe longer but the what they actually tape the footage of it they released to all media Outlets
00:45:18
but there was a stipulation you had to show it in its entirety but we're going to play a little clip from that so you
00:45:23
can hear uh a little bit of this interview but also just uh Ted Bunny's demeanor and and kind of hear his own
00:45:32
words yeah you know if I were able to ask you the questions that are being asked out there uh one of the most
00:45:39
important as you come down to perhaps your final hours are you thinking about all those victims out there in their
00:45:47
families well who are so wounded you know years later their lives have not returned to normal they will never
00:45:54
return to normal absolutely are you carrying that load that weight is the remorse
00:46:03
there again I I know that people will accuse me of being self- serving but we're beyond that now I mean I'm just
00:46:09
telling you how I feel but through God's help I have been able to come to the point where
00:46:18
I much too late but better late than never feel the hurt and the pain that I am responsible for yes absolutely in the
00:46:27
past few days myself and a number of investigators have been talking about unsolved
00:46:34
cases murders that I was involved in and it's hard to it's hard to talk about all
00:46:40
these years later because the revives in me all those terrible feelings and those
00:46:44
thoughts that I have steadfastly and and diligently dealt with I think successfully with the
00:46:56
love of God and yet it's reopened that and I felt the pain and I felt the horror
00:47:02
again of all that and I can only hope that those who I have harmed those who I've caused so much
00:47:14
grief even if they don't believe my expression of sorrow and remorse will believe what I I'm saying now that there
00:47:27
is loose in their towns and their communities people like me today whose dangerous impulses are being
00:47:41
fueled day in and day out by violence in the media in its various fors particularly sexualized
00:47:50
violence and what scares me and let's come into the present now because what I'm talking but happened 30 20 30 years
00:47:58
ago that is in my forist stages and what scares and appalls me Dr Dobson is when
00:48:05
I see what's on cable TV some of the movies I mean some of the violence in the movies uh that come into
00:48:13
homes today with stuff that they they wouldn't show in x-rated adult theaters 30 years ago this stuff the slasher
00:48:22
movies that you're talking about that stuff is I'm telling you from personal experience the most that is graphic
00:48:30
violence on screen particularly as it gets into the home to children who may be unattended or or unaware that they
00:48:39
may be a Ted Bundy who has that that vulnerability to that that predisposition to be influenced by that
00:48:46
kind of behavior by that kind of of movie that kind of violence that was Ted Bundy's last interview with James Dobson
00:48:54
and it took place as you heard James say you know in the final hours leading up to your death that's because several of
00:49:02
his death sentences had been delayed because he was helping investigators and he was giving them information at some
00:49:09
point he was no longer able to buy additional time and he he was executed the next day and one thing you should
00:49:18
look up or or look into if if you want to dive further into this case but there was when the date that he was killed
00:49:25
this was in January of 1989 that you I have never seen in my opinion a time where more people were
00:49:36
backing the death penalty than in this situation it was you know it was like a nationwide almost celebration uh that
00:49:44
they were going to finally put this horrible man to death right and it's actually been referred to as the Bundy
00:49:51
barbecue because back then in in Florida I don't know what means of of death sentence that they use nowadays but uh
00:49:58
back then they were prob probably lethal injection yeah they were using the electric chair back then so they
00:50:03
referred to it as the Bundy barbecue but there was a party going on outside of the prison and you can look this up
00:50:11
there's you know people holding signs that were were celebrating the death of this horrible man and it almost looked
00:50:19
like a football tailgate uh outside of the prison at that time a big a big party of people getting to together
00:50:25
drinking beer cooking food and and like rallying around together well it's kind of sad in a way because here's this guy
00:50:32
that is even confessing to crimes on the way to the chair and and the reason why
00:50:39
I think it's sad is you know maybe extend the time a little bit further and maybe get some closure for the other
00:50:46
victim's families yeah I I can see your point of view with that and and I would agree with that most of the time I but I
00:50:53
do think that at times he was refusing information right right and he was he was playing them at times you know we
00:51:02
had said that you know he would say things like well I can help you find this body but I'm going to need you to
00:51:06
provide me with maps and and some information on the case and these were things of him of of him saying you know
00:51:14
I can help you but you're going to have to go away for a few days and come back with some information for me and then
00:51:21
let's see what I can give you um so he wasn't always willing to just outright answer everything like we said he
00:51:27
confessed to the deaths of 11 women in the state of Washington and was only willing to give the names of eight of
00:51:33
them right um and we have some curiosity to who some of those other victims could
00:51:38
be you know there was a a a what's been referred to as his neighbor um her name was Anne Burr uh and uh she had lived
00:51:48
with within a few miles of Bundy when he was 14 or 15 years old and he's often been suspected of killing her you know
00:51:56
yeah she was the one that um her piano instructor was actually his uncle was his uncle or or his Uncle
00:52:03
lived in the neighborhood no I believe she she took piano lessons from the uncle so there was this direct link so
00:52:10
he may may have even met her or have slightly known her but basically somebody came into their home in the
00:52:16
middle of the night the parents were home they someone came into the home in the middle of the night slipped through
00:52:21
a window and when they woke up the next morning couldn't find their daughter an and I don't believe that her body has
00:52:28
ever been located she could be one of those three people that he was refusing to name in his confessions I believe she
00:52:34
was eight and he was possibly around the age of 15 or so I could be wrong yep so
00:52:41
uh you know check out the Bundy barbecue uh if you want to see those pictures but
00:52:46
let's let's go back and let's talk about the Green River Killer okay uh who was the Green River Killer well this
00:52:54
investigation is as much as Bundy tried to help them or or was pretending to help them uh this investigation
00:53:01
basically took about 20 years you know it was almost 20 years looking for the Killer and it was about 20 years to uh
00:53:10
put some of these cases to to bed because they were still looking for bodies in the early 2000s now and what
00:53:18
took place was in the late summer of 2001 they started going back and testing a lot of the evidence they found at some
00:53:26
of these crime scenes and on some of the victim's bodies right for DNA and stuff
00:53:30
like that correct and the first the first link that they find they're using they're testing sperm and they they
00:53:37
determined that this man Gary Ridgeway uh he had left his DNA uh inside and on some of these victims bodies okay now
00:53:46
they were they were also able to collect other evidence at the crime scenes that
00:53:51
they were able to link him to some of the bodies where he did not leave DNA now what what's interesting here is that
00:53:58
back in the early 80s they are these investigators and we got to take our hats off to these guys and girls because
00:54:06
they're out there collecting evidence that they don't even know if they're ever going to be able to use it for
00:54:11
anything but not only collecting it but PR preserving it properly for for decades and it ends up coming back and
00:54:18
it ends up finding the guy that they've been looking for for so long mhm in 2001
00:54:25
Gary Ridgeway he confessed to killing 71 young women and girls now as we said most of these were SE sex workers some
00:54:35
of them were thought to be runaways and other type of delinquents however he confesses to 71 he's only ended up
00:54:42
convicted of 49 now they would spend the next approximately two years with the assistance of Gary Ridgeway to locate
00:54:51
some of these bodies as we said a lot of these bodies were not located at the time and actually still to this date uh
00:54:59
last you know they haven't found all of these supposed 71 bodies um is he just coming up with the number is he wrong um
00:55:08
he could be he could be he he's actually said several statements where he has killed so many women that he cannot
00:55:14
remember their names or where he found them or where he left them um so it's possible I do believe that that
00:55:22
personally I believe that that number is going to be high than 49 now last I heard local law enforcement King County
00:55:29
Law Enforcement they are no longer looking for these bodies as said they spent about two years with his assistant
00:55:36
assistant locating a lot of these bodies they are no longer doing that part of that comes down to you know it's the
00:55:43
it's the economy of the whole thing at some point you don't have enough money to be spending that amount of resources
00:55:49
and that amount of time looking for these bodies which is unfortunate for a lot of the victim's families and the
00:55:55
victims themselves but you know these these investigators and the King County Police Department they have other cases
00:56:03
on their desk today that they're looking into now there was um there is a gentleman uh he's retired uh I believe
00:56:11
retired military investigator and he has opened up his own um search team and they are working to find some of these
00:56:22
other bodies and they've actually been able to work with Gary Ridgeway himself he has he has tried to give them some
00:56:29
Clues and some tips as to where they might find these bodies and yeah and it's not like he's sitting there holding
00:56:35
the information hostage he just doesn't remember a lot of the stuff right well and actually or that's what we can
00:56:41
assume actually I came across a list that he provided to these uh to these Searchers and to this group uh where he
00:56:50
basically has listed as many names as he can recall and approximate dates that he
00:56:55
believes that he abducted these women as well as you know did he leave them nude
00:57:01
did he leave them with any clothing on um I don't know his I don't know the his reasoning for wanting to help um I I
00:57:10
don't think that he feels bad about any of this stuff I don't think that he's found God uh and wants to become right
00:57:18
with God or anything like that I actually think that I think that it's a numbers game for him because in in a
00:57:24
later even though he has confessed to 71 killings he did say you know when when asked why he is helping in this search
00:57:33
he has said because he wants to prove that there are 80 victims out there so now his number's gone up even higher
00:57:39
he's now saying 80 and I think for him that he wants to be he is technically America's most prolific killer of all
00:57:47
time and I think he's proud of his number and I think he wants that number to be as high as possible right and he's
00:57:54
trying to prove Pro it by doing you know it's like right now it's like oh well just we're just speculating that this is
00:58:00
the number he's like no no we can prove it now what were some things that that Ted Bundy got right about Gary Ridgeway
00:58:07
uh well he was right Gary was returning to the victims and he was spending time with the bodies um now how Gary started
00:58:15
off and we don't have you know we're we're coming towards the end of our show here uh but to give you a little
00:58:20
background on the Green River Killer you know he starting killing back in 1982 this was after his second marriage he
00:58:29
was divorced uh two you know the first time and then after the second marriage he was divorced again he would later say
00:58:35
that he believes that had he just killed his second wife that he might not have killed any of these women I don't
00:58:43
believe that for one no for one minute um it's it's it's just a way for these guys to blame their actions on somebody
00:58:50
else and on other things out of their control well and just like you heard in the interview I mean like Bundy you know
00:58:56
blames these murders on you know soft porn and stuff like that that's not the reason why you're killing people you
00:59:02
don't watch you know I I would just argue that you know how many people millions and millions of people watch a
00:59:09
a soft uh softcore porn or something they're not going to go out and start murdering people and so G Gary does the
00:59:16
same thing it's always coming up with these excuses you know I was well if I would have just killed my second wife
00:59:21
then everything would have been fine you you killed 80 women mhm you idiot like you know oh well if I would have just
00:59:30
killed her I'd be fine but but Gary Gary was always that way and he will always be that way I mean when he was when he
00:59:38
was young when he was just out of high school now this is a guy he he's not a brilliant guy you know Ted might be one
00:59:45
of the smarter and more intellectual serial killers that we've had to deal with but that wasn't the situation with
00:59:52
Gary Ridgeway he W he was good at what he was doing he was good at alluding detectives in the investigation but he's
00:59:59
not a brilliant mind I mean he's got an IQ of about 80 to 85 depending on uh which source you check but he graduated
01:00:07
high school at the age of 20 and immediately after high school he goes into the Navy and now when he's off in
01:00:12
the Navy he starts uh having sex with um with Filipino sex workers when when he's
01:00:19
out in the Navy now he he contracts the narial disease because of this and he we
01:00:25
know this because we can see this in his Navy records however what how does he react to this he he blames it on the
01:00:33
girls you know this oh it's their fault that he got this disease and then in 1972 he comes home from the Navy to find
01:00:41
his wife and his wife is being unfaithful and had been unfaithful to him while he was in the Navy and they
01:00:47
get a divorce and he blames the divorce on her well guess what yeah she might have been unfaithful but you weren't
01:00:53
being very faithful yourself right um in the second uh the second marriage that he has that he ends up having a son uh
01:01:03
he's not very happy about this situation I don't know why uh but they eventually
01:01:08
divorce in 1981 and again this is the the woman that he said he should have killed rather than all of these other
01:01:15
women uh this is when he starts killing is in 1982 shortly after his divorce and
01:01:22
his his noce operandi back then is he would go pick up these girls off the strip now mind you he was just like
01:01:31
Bundy had said in the task force uh had expected he was already frequenting sex workers before he started killing them
01:01:40
but once he starts killing them what he would do is he would bring them back to his home and he would kill them in his
01:01:45
home and now he lived in a house that is much like most people's homes where you
01:01:50
are surrounded by other houses and homes and so there's no no reason why uh you know somebody shouldn't have seen this
01:01:58
activity going on but he would walk in the walk in his home he didn't have a garage he would walk in his home with
01:02:05
with a woman that he picked up and then he would kill her and bring her back to his vehicle and drive off and he would
01:02:11
dump them in the river now as said he started dumping them in the wooded areas nearby in these cluster dumps remember
01:02:20
that period of time where the they thought that the killings might have stopped because they were no longer
01:02:25
finding bodies and and Bundy was saying no they haven't stopped yet and Bundy was slightly right on a couple things
01:02:31
you know he said he's either changed where he's dumping them or he's changed his victimology well he did do both of
01:02:38
those things in a sense uh at one point he did think that he would stop picking up sex workers and killing them he
01:02:47
wanted to he did want to find runaways and delinquents and but one thing that he definitely did was was he stopped
01:02:55
using these cluster dumps where he would take one of the victims out into a wooded area and he was even driving
01:03:00
further and further away as these killings continued and just leaving them you know independently individually so
01:03:08
you think after two marriages he would just stop right but doesn't he get married a third time yeah he did get
01:03:14
married a third time and this is when he has to change and adapt once more he stops killing in his home and now he's
01:03:22
killing in his vehicle and he's doing this either late at night when his wife is asleep or very early in the morning
01:03:29
he would get up and leave hours before he was supposed to go to work and go off and pick up a girl kill her dump her and
01:03:36
then go to work now there were some strange things that happened with this case but they're also similar to what we
01:03:44
saw with the Ted murders in Ted Bundy's case where any time you have a large investigation that spans months and
01:03:53
months and months that has this number of victims this number of potential eyewitnesses remember how many suspects
01:04:00
they believe that they had in the Ted killings they they said like 3500 suspects and they were trying to narrow
01:04:06
it down to the best 100 suspects well very much like the Ted murders they had the same situation in the Green River
01:04:14
killings where they had thousands of suspects thousands of suspects but usually in an investigation of this type
01:04:22
and just like in Ted Bundy's they have usually spoke to or or have heard the name of the actual killer at
01:04:30
some point in the investigation now they were led to Gary Ridgeway on more than one occasion somebody had spotted his
01:04:37
vehicle and they had spoke with him every time Gary Ridgeway was able to kind of convince them that he was not in
01:04:44
fact the Green River Killer and actually just to show you how far gone this dude
01:04:48
is they actually at one point hooked him up to a lie detector test because at some point they're like wait we we've
01:04:55
seen this guy's name before and now we're seeing it again and there's got to be something here but every time we talk
01:05:00
to him he leaves us convinced that he's not the guy mhm so let's hook him up to a polygraph and see what how that goes
01:05:07
down he passes a polygraph test because he feels No Remorse because he feels no guilt for these killings he he's not
01:05:15
ashamed on the inside of what he's done he's not even nervous that you're going to catch him in a lie because to him
01:05:22
he's not done anything wrong he does not see these women as people and he doesn't
01:05:27
have the same feelings and emotions that you and I have and this is a reason why
01:05:31
we put we shouldn't put a lot of weight into polygraphs in the first place well especially with people of this nature
01:05:38
because again he he doesn't feel and think the same way that you and I do and an Evidence of this is he actually had
01:05:46
his 8-year-old son present with him on one of the killings at some point if you look if you look up his his victim list
01:05:55
and see when they disappeared uh you will see a frequency that is so disturbing it I mean it will
01:06:02
freak you out this guy was killing roughly about three women a month uh during during his Peak now at one of
01:06:09
those points he had his son for the weekend and he was coming back from his brother's birthday party and he decides
01:06:16
to pick up a a woman on the way home while his son is in the vehicle and he walks with the woman out into the woods
01:06:24
they're gone for a while he comes back she does not and his son ask where did the girl go and he says oh she lives
01:06:31
near here and she decided to walk home but he actually used his son as a ruse to to let these women's guard down and
01:06:39
that specific situation he had the son with him but he talks about because remember we said that the the sex
01:06:46
workers would have had a heightened state of awareness now keep in mind these women probably have more Street
01:06:52
smarts than the police invest inating the crimes to begin with you know so these are not people that are easily
01:06:58
tricked now they're they're getting into vehicles and they understand that there's a maniac out there that's
01:07:03
killing women so they start doing things on the street to kind of watch each other's backs and to watch their own
01:07:09
backs right but he did things like where he would you know the he said that at some point the women started asking to
01:07:16
CID because they want to see you know are you a cop or you know show us your ID so we know that you're a regular dude
01:07:24
uh and he would show his ID and he would purposely take his finger and cover up his name when he would but he would hold
01:07:29
open his wallet so that you could see pictures of his son in the wallet so it would let their guard down and he oh
01:07:37
right right like he has a little boy and so so he's a family man not going to hurt me uh and he would purposely leave
01:07:44
some of his son's belongings in his vehicle as well now another thing that's one messed up dude another thing that
01:07:51
Ted was absolutely right on and and anybody that studied this stuff long enough it doesn't take any you know
01:07:56
Sherlock Holmes to figure this out but Ted was right that Gary Ridgeway was driving constantly much like Ted was
01:08:03
doing you know it we've talked you know people always ask what do these serial killers have in common you know is it is
01:08:11
it they had a head injury or was it that they wet the bed until they were 15 or that they uh I'm going to go with what
01:08:18
the bed or that they were strangling cats or setting things on fire when they were children what are what's the
01:08:23
identifier to figure out who these guys are to separate these monsters from the rest of society well in my opinion it's
01:08:30
much like what we talked about in the last episode their number one killing tool and killing weapon in my opinion is
01:08:36
their vehicle well with these two gentlemen with these two but you will see this time and gentl these two
01:08:44
[ __ ] so but you will see this time and time again with a lot of killers they are people that prow constantly
01:08:50
they're driving constantly they will go to Great dist es to hide their crimes these are people that are tearing
01:08:57
through tires and tearing through vehicles at at a large rate now one thing that Gary did to help elude
01:09:03
detection was he had multiple Vehicles over the course of this investigation but he also worked as a painter he he
01:09:10
was a tape guy at the at the uh Kenworth Factory now what was Kenworth they would
01:09:16
paint vehicles so he was often able to change the color of his vehicle because he would just paint it a different color
01:09:23
now the strange thing here is we we had said that the investigators had spoken to Gary on more than one occasion now
01:09:30
his co-workers knew this because he was actually picked up at work one on one of
01:09:34
these occasions so his nickname at work now and you can you can look this up but
01:09:39
there's plenty of co-workers that said you know he was a weird dude he wasn't the kind of guy he wasn't scary but he
01:09:45
wasn't the kind of guy that you would go get a beer with after work you wouldn't
01:09:48
invite him over to your party or to your family get together so he's like Nick no but they nicknamed him Green
01:09:55
River Gary at work that's what they kind of called Green River Gary Green River Gary they would kind of call him that
01:10:02
behind his back why because because the the police showed up to question him about the killing right so then work and
01:10:09
they're well yeah because from now on anytime you're taking a Spoke break or you're at lunch break the conversation
01:10:15
is well is Gary really the killer or is he not you know and everybody had a different opinion but they all agreed
01:10:21
they didn't want to hang out with him uh and after that why I wouldn't want to hang out with the dude either but Gary
01:10:27
is always the type of of person to get even too as well now one thing he did he would hear the co-workers snickering and
01:10:35
calling him Green River Gary and and you know but one thing that he did was he would often keep some of the women's
01:10:43
jewelry these women that he killed um and one thing he did at work on at least one occasion was he would take the
01:10:51
jewelry and he would place it somewhere like somebody had dropped it you know or
01:10:55
somebody had lost it and a coworker picked it up and would wear it and he would have this thing in his mind every
01:11:02
time that he would pass that coworker in the hall or walk by her like if you only
01:11:07
knew what I know you know you you guys goof around and you call me these names yet you're wearing a dead girl's jewelry
01:11:13
around you know around the office some of that jewelry that he had would end up in his and his wife they would have
01:11:19
these uh garage sales and they would sell some of the jewelry as well as shoes of of some of the
01:11:26
victims in in all you know as said he ended up confessing to 71 and he's convicted of 49 now part of that he he
01:11:36
is not on death row you know he's serving a life sentence and part of that life sentence was that he would confess
01:11:42
to these these murders and he would help assist with the finding of those bodies
01:11:48
so with the Green River Killer case um we still have a task force looking for these bodies
01:11:54
still working with Gary um Gary has to work with him that's his sentence and and hopefully more victims they find
01:12:02
more of the bodies and more evidence MH yeah well he he did have to work with law enforcement this is a separate uh
01:12:10
situation going on where this is a basically a company you know that uh they don't work for the police
01:12:17
department but he is offering them some of some assistance yeah right okay but uh yeah yeah it's a it's an interesting
01:12:24
case was Bundy right on on things yes he was certainly right on a handful of things um and then other things you know
01:12:30
were were just guesses or he was talking about himself MH you know sad with Ted Bunny's help that they couldn't catch
01:12:37
Gary sooner MH yeah you know and I've often wondered had Ted Bundy been able to help them like right out of the right
01:12:46
out of the gate there and they would have been able to catch Gary Ridgeway a lot sooner especially what you know when
01:12:53
Bundy was still alive within the first couple of weeks that he was helping them would they have kept him alive longer do
01:13:00
you think and used him as some kind of investigative tool you know through for these other big cases going on
01:13:06
throughout the country I I've wondered where that would have gone had that worked out differently and that's Ted
01:13:12
Bundy yeah well Ted Bundy is one of the uh you know he's one of the more interesting and more fascinating serial
01:13:19
killers monsters that we've had to deal with and one that we've learned about through Tri True Crime and through his
01:13:25
crimes uh but one thing that makes him so interesting is you know his willingness at the end to
01:13:33
discuss these crimes his crimes and other people's crimes with law enforcement and with the media that he
01:13:40
is truly one that that is the best to study uh how about some recommended reading before we wrap up season 3 here
01:13:48
we don't worry don't worry we'll be coming right back for season 4 pretty quickly back in the garage we'll come
01:13:53
back in like uh 6 months yeah so we we're taking a six Monon break we'll be back in six months don't worry about
01:14:01
us so we've recommended some pretty good Ted Bundy books so far we had uh um the
01:14:06
Bundy murders by Kevin Sullivan and last week we recommended I survived Ted Bundy
01:14:12
uh this week uh one of my favorite one of the arguably one of the best True Crime authors of all time somebody that
01:14:19
knew Ted Bundy of course an rule we're talking about an rule and her book The Stranger Beside Me So if you want to
01:14:26
check out any of our recommended books if you want to pick one up I'm actually writing a book with the same title
01:14:32
Stranger Beside Me if you want to pick up any of our recommended books go to True Crim garage.com click on the
01:14:38
recommended page and we have a whole smattering of books there for you to check out and you can just click on the
01:14:44
Amazon banner and pick up your true crime books or anything else that you want to buy for the holiday season yeah
01:14:50
you can buy anything uh I just bought a nice bass fiddle not a bass fiddle bass guitar slap in the bass and you can buy
01:14:58
anything just go to True Crime garage.com click on the Amazon Banner buy all your gifts and they give a
01:15:04
little kick back to us with no charge to you that's right and we will see you back here in six months in the garage
01:15:10
and until next time two years and 6 months yeah and until next time be good be kind and don't
01:15:22
live [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
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must be a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare up front prices book a service
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