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for all of our old episodes download the free stitcher app and our other show true-crime garage off the record is
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available on stitcher premium and now the Delphi Murders off the record [Applause]
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[Music] how can a case where they've told us so little be so big right this case is just
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it seems huge it seems really small on the outside when you when you look into it and you're like oh well we have a
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couple seconds of a video clip of somebody walking on a bridge we have a couple seconds of some guy talking
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saying guys down the hill and then you look into it and you're like wow this is a huge huge case and part of
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that has been I think a lot of a lot of it is due to speculation and we talked about this quite a bit before is right
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now anytime some some guy does something super violent sexual nature resulting in
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murder any of those different things we're seeing them being brought to the forefront of being a possible suspect in
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the Delphi murders case Ryan not just individuals that are arrested in Indiana by Amy Bay that's arrested that has ties
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to Indiana well one guy we talked about was Paul etter okay now he is super interesting for a million reasons but
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one thing that you and I keep keep going back to is DNA okay so early last week what came out was
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that the sheriff states that the Delphi murder investigators have requested editors autopsy results as well as his
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DNA okay so this guy was 55 years old he's dead he committed suicide after a standoff with police where he was in the
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standoff with police because he had he had attacked a woman he abducted her while she was changing a tire on the
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side of the road in Tippecanoe County which was not terribly far from Delphi well she actually didn't she actually
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like break down right by his house yeah something the way that the the story works that did I read anyway was
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that he she broke down on the side of the road right in front of his property very early in the morning like at like
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4:30 in the morning yeah he offers to help her and she's she's kind of creeped out by this dude
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so she decides you know I don't need any help and just continues on well right and we but we make some leaps here like
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what one of the things that I've heard was okay well this other guy creeped out his victim and that we we know that Abby
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and Libby were creeped out enough to take pictures of the guy bridge guy and so some people make that leap that this
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girl felt the same thing that Libyan a be felt hmm he ends up following her and abducting this woman eventually he
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lets her go after a rape and sexual assault and then the police catch up with Paul at her because he's driving
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around in a stolen vehicle yeah after this standoff he commits suicide and now we find out that the
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sheriff's there saying that the investigators requested his autopsy results and his DNA and we've seen DNA
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requests before and we've we've talked about this before but to me this really solidifies for me what I believe there
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to be DNA and you say well Nick why are they even questioning why are you Nick colonel captain why are you garage
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idiots questioning the DNA well we're questioning the DNA because in the beginning the investigators made it
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sound as if they had it and then at some point that went away from there right there press releases and from there what
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their words that they were choosing to use to the public it just disappeared and so then you have the question is
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there something wrong with the DNA or did they not have it or did they speak did they speak out before they knew if
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they were going to have it or not yeah and one of the statements that they made again that makes me question it where I
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think would make any big question is the idea that they say look we're not gonna
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clear anybody we're not gonna do that we're gonna call it chapter or they've been we've gone over that person he's
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been checked yeah we're not gonna say that they've been cleared until somebody's arrested and somebody's
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convicted and then the next statement is they are convicted right meaning that this law enforcement officer believes
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that they might one day arrest somebody but might not be able to get a conviction that's what it makes it seem
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now they might just be playing it safe and that's fine and I understand that but if they're not playing it safe in
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that statement is a true statement that makes you question if they have DNA because if you have somebody that you
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arrest for the crime you have DNA plus you have other evidence why wouldn't this be a slam-dunk well and then one
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thing too is we discussed the reasons why you would ask someone to submit their DNA even if you did not have this
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you're doing it as a scare tactic as a way to see if this suspect will squirm right and and immediately become
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uncooperative in your questions and in your investigation and then you go well we should be checking into this guy
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further because he doesn't want to seem to help us with this double homicide of two children I mean yeah you can be
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guilty of a lot of bad things but nothing as bad as this so you you you would think persons would comply and
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offer their assistance at the very least to just get their name off of this investigation well you see this summer
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with asking people to take a lie detector we know that we can't use that in a court of law but we're gonna use it
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to kind of see how you play play out this hand right and so the thing though that really kind of I'm really going the
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way of yes they have DNA and I've always kind of been that way on this on this case but I feel like the longer that we
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look into it the stronger my feeling is in my heart the higher my confidence level gets that they do have DNA and so
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it just doesn't make any sense to me when people yeah I I I'm leaning your way I have some reservations about it
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but at the end of the day it's like why would they keep bringing up the idea that they're gonna test individuals and
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even law enforcement kind of said look it would be there'd be very surprised if the fetter
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is is connected in any way but is it just a statement that they're making to the public to let them know we're doing
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everything in our power yeah well not only that you have you have the public saying this guy's a suspect and if the
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public considers him a suspect in law enforcement better as well at least to the point of check-in to him like you
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said he's been checked and then move on to your next guy and I think that's where the argument comes in where people
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start to question if there's DNA because they're going all there's been all these
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suspects in the public's eye right the police and investigators and FBI are saying we're checking into this guy that
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we've been made aware of now because he's been arrested for something else and then we never hear anything as far
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as the guy being cleared and like you pointed out that's for good reason they've already said early on that they
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are not going to clear anyone whether they whether they get somebody's DNA and they compare it to what they have on
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Lyle the sample that was left at the crime scene and they might go he's been checked he's been checked we
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know they may know that that person did not do it but they're not going to say that publicly until as you said captain
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somebody is sitting in court and sitting through the court the the trial process
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well let's break that down a little bit because that didn't make a lot of sense to me why why would you not state that
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somebody's cleared if he cleared them and and one of the things that they were saying is that if you come out publicly
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and say Logan for example you know the girls were found on Logan's property Logan was arrested on other charges if
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they go through and check alibis and do some things they go okay well Logan is cleared and then it comes back that he's
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not cleared and they arrest him and they go to trial that just the statement that
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the law enforcement at one point cleared this individual that could be reasonable doubt right
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that gives the jury reasonable doubt and so that makes a lot more sense and because then you're fighting uphill
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battle you're now saying well at one point we cleared this individual but now no and and so if if at one point law
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enforcement said this person wasn't involved that would like you said it gives you probable cause to go well I or
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gives you a reasonable doubt to go you know if they weren't sure at one point how am I supposed to be sure well the
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the other thing that really strengthens my belief that they do have DNA one I'm just going back to the beginning and
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realizing and knowing and reminding myself that they said they had it at one point and I see that it's disappeared
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from their narrative I'm fine with that and I get why I think that is and I think it's smart and I'll get into that
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in just a second but the thing that really strengthens my belief that there is DNA here is they're requesting it
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from a dead man and we know this to be true / / the news reports that we're coming out last week and on top of that
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the way that the wording that they use when they state that is that they requested it shortly after this guy
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committed suicide shortly after Paul letter killed himself so the thing the thing is it's no longer a scare tactic
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if there's nobody to scare right it's just simply yeah collecting evidence at this point and so that really
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strengthens it for me on that level and then I've recently viewed a short interview where Kim Riley one of the
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officers one of the investigators with the State Police he's not on the local level he's on the State Police where he
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here's the thing with these with these with the investigators here they're all doing a very good job they're they're
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trying to field and answer as many questions as possible they do have a let's say script or a narrative to try
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to stick to that they've all agreed upon but on occasion because they are being so transparent or at least with what
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what they're willing to share and their availability to be in front of the public and to answer questions on
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occasion you can catch a little bit of a slip where you're like I don't know that
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they were supposed to say it like that or well them think about all the emotions that they're carrying around
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yeah so in what in one of these little news clips I saw Kim Riley stating you know basically he's being asked if you
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have DNA or if you have so much evidence on this guy why hasn't there been an arrest and he was saying well there's we
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and he's trying to be hypothetical but you can tell in a way he's probably talking about what's actually going on
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with the case he says you know well we might have a situation here where this person has never done anything before
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and we just don't have any way of tracking him down or tracing this individual right so that really that
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statement to me really makes me feel like the police at least believed that they're working on a suspect that bridge
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guy has not been convicted of anything where he would have his DNA profile already submitted to CODIS and then when
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when he goes further to say wouldn't have anything to track no way to trace this individual that also makes me
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wonder if they have fingerprints as well but they're just not in the system that we do have stuff we just we need to
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find the right guy the right person bring him forward and have his fingerprints and/or DNA to compare this
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to and so I I feel good that I think that it's there I think the reason why you go
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back and you go back and you go oh [ __ ] we talked about DNA let's kind of just
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drop that from the story and not bring it up again because and then there's other times where we have somebody like
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Daniel nations who says I submitted my DNA and you never hear from police saying that they did yeah we asked him
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to do so or he did submit it anything like that they just say he's somebody were not real
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that interested in I think the other thing if you do in fact have DNA or as some guys up in the ami Mahalo Vic case
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like to say bait in the net I always thought that was a strange way to word it but if you do in fact have
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DNA you might want to drop that from the narrative just for the fact that you want this guy to slip up now why do you
00:14:07
find that weird bathing than that I just saw so when when then business a lot at
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Watertown right I mean they're there by water right but what I mean by that is when they're asked if they have DNA most
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of the time their answer is well we have bait in the net rather than just giving
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you a clear general right clear general understanding sometimes they've given a better answer than that but but for a
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while they were sticking to that bait in the net kind of thing which is fine anyway what I was getting at though
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captain is here you have a situation where if you do have DNA of this guy and he is not in the system he has not
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committed any offenses that he's been caught for to the point where he would be in the system
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now you're going you know what let's drop that from the narrative because we wouldn't mind terribly if he goes out
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and commits an offense and gets caught for it right I mean we're nobody sitting nobody's suggesting hey go out and and
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murder somebody so we can catch this guy why well what we're you're hoping for is
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could he get picked up for a DUI could he could he do something dumb you know anything that would warrant a felony
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arrest from my understanding in Indiana now you were forced to submit your DNA so driving drunk home from from from a
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bar one night right right you might end up catching your guy but let's be clear about that so every state is different
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but in the state of Indiana if you are arrested with something that you can be charged a felony for you don't have to
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actually be charged you don't have to actually go through the process and be found guilty but when you're arrested
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they'll swab your DNA and they're gonna take your fingerprints and all that that's how they enter you into the
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system yeah and I you were saying that that didn't pass until 2017 and and then they don't
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implement and until 2018 or whatever that yes that's my understanding of the way that it's going down in Indiana and
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as you said it gets difficult for us to remember there's 50 states and they're all kind of doing that stuff a little
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different from from state to state here's the other thing though Paulette ER is in fact we know that they went
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after his DNA according to the words that they chose to use and made it sound like it was shortly after he killed
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himself so now we're looking at a month ago you would think if he is the guy he's not alive for you to even bother
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talking to him right I feel like he's trying to gather more information he's not the guy but do you think he makes a
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good suspect because the initial did the thing I jumped to immediately is yes paw
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letters a horrible individual he abducted and raped a woman but he let her go we're looking for a killer not a
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not necessarily just a rapist and we don't know either the mounds of possibilities are endless in it and and
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that gets a little it can make everything convoluted but I think what we we have here is individual that
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possibly could look like bridge guy I mean we're only seeing just like a head shot of this individual but you go okay
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here's this guy that has committed crimes before violent crimes sexual in nature is it possible that he he did
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this double murder and then kind of went on a spree if you will that our or had a
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you know weird universe the universe puts for lack of a better word prey right by his house and there or early
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morning he attacks her for whatever reason maybe he knows that this has gone too far we've seen this with other
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killers with other attackers where they were afterwards they'll say that I'm never doing this again or or they take
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their own life maybe he knew he's gonna take his own life for whatever reason it's like okay I did
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this double murder that's been on my mind now I did this at this a basically torture is what it was the sexual
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assault rape torture I'm going to take my own life and maybe that's why he let her go and
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then he takes his own life I mean I mean I understand that there's a five-hour standoff but we can't know for sure what
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was going through this guy's head but it is it that's a possibility so when people say well he let this
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other victim go and he didn't let you know that that rules them out and so people so many people's mind I'm like I
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don't think that rules out anything because we don't know what's going on in this sick individuals mind right I agree
00:19:00
I I but I tend to lean toward I don't know that I'd make him the top suspect partly in part just because he did let
00:19:09
that future victim go and from the way I'm I'm viewing this thing it looks to me like he may have got away with that
00:19:17
and I hate to say this out loud he may have got away with that whole attacking rape if he had not let her go and yes
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the well and the other thing that makes me question it too is again is his age one that's what I wonder because he had
00:19:35
to have some knowledge that she had knowledge of where he was from and maybe she didn't know that area that well but
00:19:42
where she broke down and so by letting her go it's almost like you're setting free the person that is going to
00:19:50
basically be your downfall and the reason why you get captured but again if your vehicle breaks down in front of
00:19:58
this guy's house and he comes walking out or in front of his property and he very clearly comes walking out and you
00:20:05
go oh he must have lived there I mean that's probably the first thing you're gonna say you might not know the the
00:20:10
numerical of the address that you broke down in front of but you're gonna go hey
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I was on on I such-and-such yeah last week I had the note I had the street name in my notes but yeah you could go I
00:20:22
was right around this area on such-and-such Street guy comes out of his house four o'clock
00:20:28
in the morning yeah and AM and then you can identify the guy and what's interesting to me about the whole
00:20:34
connection with with editor is he kind of has a bulbous nose would you say it's bulbous yeah and I've actually yes well
00:20:45
and I'm using that term for in this case because I've actually seen several videos where they're doing new profiles
00:20:55
of bridge man and they start talking about that he has a characteristic that we haven't noticed in the past and I've
00:21:05
actually seen this from at least two individuals where they're saying it he has a character that we didn't notice
00:21:11
but now we notice he has a bulbous nose and I wonder if that is these online armchair detectives if this is their way
00:21:22
of them shifting the narrative okay well we have this guy in custody is he a perfect match for a bridge guy
00:21:29
no like you said logically he attacks one tax to individuals kills them let's another one go that doesn't seem
00:21:40
to line up really but he's he's 55 and which would be past the actual age range that they gave us right from yeah from
00:21:52
the most recent press conference the the big one that kind of blew everything up
00:21:58
in April they're saying 18 to 40 is the age that they believe that they're looking for and so even you know even
00:22:08
two years ago Paul at her would have been 53 now I am sitting here looking at a mug shot of his from 2012 I'm not I
00:22:17
don't have a full understanding of what his charge would have been back then but
00:22:21
it appears to be a mug shot from 2012 right so seven years ago he would have been 48 I will I will say this about
00:22:31
Paul he could probably now mind you this is a very small sample size he's bald if
00:22:37
he had hair would help quite a bit more but I I could maybe see him passing 443 in this
00:22:45
picture yeah and he would be about 48 so he does look younger or appear younger than what he is which that's also part
00:22:53
of what they said in their release that we're looking for someone probably between the ages of 18 and 40 who may
00:23:00
appear younger than their actual age brain but the tricky thing here though is didn't they also claim in this
00:23:09
description and that the perpetrator bridge guy had you know kind of a reddish hair well in the first sketch
00:23:19
yes the first sketch that was released it appears to be reddish hair I what were they saying about the second sketch
00:23:25
they get our color for that one I thought that's the one that they said reddish okay and so that that makes me
00:23:31
question I mean when people still bring up Logan because the girls were found on
00:23:35
Logan's property again clearly Logan has gray hair clearly better has a you know
00:23:44
salt-and-pepper hair I would say but leaning more gray so I don't know well unless that I have some issues and I
00:23:57
think anybody should have issues with the idea that you have us you have two sketches that they claimed were happen
00:24:03
at the same time that went with one over the other they look like two different individuals to me I'm having a real hard
00:24:09
time the more we dive into this case I'm having a hard time actually believe in any of this
00:24:15
as far as eyewitnesses go well I think I think somebody that's still of very big
00:24:23
interest to me is Thomas Bruce who is thankfully in jail waiting on something to happen with his current case right
00:24:34
where he is facing a murder charge and sexual assault and rape charges he's the one that went into the Catholic supply
00:24:43
store for and ordered the women to the back of the establishment right and attacked and assaulted and killed
00:24:53
one of them there the way that this thing goes down and I can't remember I know we went through his timeline
00:25:00
somewhat but he left the store at one point under the guise of going out to get a credit card from his car which he
00:25:09
returns and I I'm assuming that's when he went out and got the gun from his vehicle and this guy is weird too
00:25:17
because again the age is wrong with him that the difference between him and Paul
00:25:21
adder is we know Thomas Bruce to be a killer the thing that also I find fascinating about Thomas Bruce is it
00:25:31
doesn't appear that he's been in any kind of trouble before this strange attack right the results in the murder
00:25:40
and I don't know I'm I'm not saying that Thomas Bruce is the guy I'm just saying
00:25:46
on the on the outside looking in he looks a little more like the guy to me in a sense that it seems like he
00:25:55
committed a crime of opportunity that maybe when he did enter that store the first time I mean look we know he left
00:26:04
the store and came back so there was something in his plan that he needed from the vehicle or something that he
00:26:10
needed to readjust before he carried out the attack or he wasn't 100% planning on
00:26:16
attacking the place when he first walked in there yeah I mean individuals were in
00:26:21
there I think it was I can three women were in there and and again so logic would tell you okay well so at her
00:26:27
attacks a single female and then obviously Libyan Abby being two females but in this other case with Bruce then
00:26:36
you go well he he had no problem going hey there's three people I can control this in his brain right and so that's
00:26:45
the same scenario as Libyan Abby so you're out in a park you see these two girls walking and you think that's an
00:26:53
opportunity and I really think that that narrows down the individual quite a bit
00:26:59
because there's a lot of individuals that they're not going to try to control to to Victor
00:27:07
they're not gonna try to didn't tell it most of these perpetrators that's too big of a situation mm-hm and so you know
00:27:16
logic would tell you that that's a good match yeah and the other thing too is Thomas Bruce was even let's say he did
00:27:25
not plan on attacking those women at the Catholic supply store until after he went in there the first time he
00:27:33
obviously was prepared to do something like that in some former fashion even just to the point where he needed to go
00:27:40
out to his vehicle and get something possibly and that's what I think he I think think this dude had a had a kill
00:27:47
kit rape kit in his vehicle no and he saw an opportunity where maybe he was planning on maybe he was watching and
00:27:56
casing the place and saw his opportunity and right but he goes and retrieves a kill kit rape kit
00:28:03
from from the vehicle right again same type of thing though if you don't know who's gonna be on the trails you don't
00:28:09
know who's gonna be at the park that day but you just bring this stuff with you but you were prepared to do something to
00:28:15
if it's an opportunity presented itself right which again same as the first attack
00:28:21
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00:32:41
thing that I find and the sketches as well so one thing that I find completely fascinating like you were saying when
00:32:47
you see these two sketches they're completely different from one another and and that's frustrating Sal right in
00:32:55
a whole bunch of ways they're completely different from one another and then we have the statement of the suspect we
00:33:01
believe we're looking for a guy between the ages of 18 and 40 who may appear younger than what he is well what's the
00:33:09
population on people 18 to 40 I mean that's a that's 22 years that we're spanning and then okay so we've been
00:33:18
told that those sketches both sketches were developed by eyewitnesses that saw a man matching that description whether
00:33:26
it be sketch a or sketch B that day near the bridge or on the trails that day right so again it's it's it's weird that
00:33:36
we have two completely different sketches and then on top of that here's here's one thing that I really wonder
00:33:42
about the age range here because you should be able to look at somebody's face if you're going to describe them to
00:33:49
the point where somebody can draw a sketch you should be able to answer the question of does he look 18 or does he
00:33:56
look 40 rather than now I couldn't decide if it was 18 could have been as late as 40 what I wonder here is because
00:34:04
we have the two sketches and they're two so different from one another are they not ruling out the possibility
00:34:12
of either sketch being correct and and police are thinking mmm that he looks younger in one sketch than he does in
00:34:20
the other and therefore now we have a range of 20 to 22 years for the possibility well see I just wonder at
00:34:30
first based off eyewitness based off of the video footage that they had if they just went you know what this this
00:34:39
eyewitness gave us this this drawing we were able to look at that drawing look at bridge man look at the video footage
00:34:48
that we have because we're assuming that they have more video footage for the rumor is they have a lot
00:34:54
more footage I could not get that coming I have a weird situation where I do have
00:35:02
a contact that actually worked the case I can't get into that too much but some of the information that I have passed
00:35:11
along to them just to see if they can confirm or deny sometimes I don't want to I don't know how to say this but I
00:35:19
think sometimes it's almost like if they can confirm it like they just won't not
00:35:26
they're not trying to be jerks or anything but it's it's so it's almost like you know like oh I heard they have
00:35:33
a lot more footage can you confirm or deny that and then it's like no answers but it's really like basically they're
00:35:41
confirming what I'm saying so I think they have a lot more footage than than what they're leading on to believe and
00:35:48
so what what if it's just this simple I saw this guy on the bridge okay he looks
00:35:53
like this okay we do a drawing that drawing kind of looks like bridge guy kind of looks like this grainy video
00:35:59
footage we have of the individual you get the next eyewitness they give you a whole different person you kind of
00:36:07
compare that with bridge guy your gut feeling tells you know you that's why you went with the first drawing my
00:36:15
argument is that we have all these people coming forward or not all these people we have a handful of people
00:36:21
saying what we saw these this guy on the path that doesn't mean that they actually saw the killer they just saw a
00:36:29
guy on the path right and that's what I can't get over because I believe this where he took them to to go down by
00:36:43
roughly by that service road keep going down cross the river I think that was all by design and I think it's more than
00:36:56
likely it was either to take them to a more remote situation but even if that was the case
00:37:06
and there was no vehicle down there I either think he was trying to take them to a remote situation and that's
00:37:12
where his getaway was or it was let me take him to this remote situation and then whatever happens happens but then
00:37:21
when I'm leaving I think this individual knew that area so well that they didn't
00:37:27
have to leave back on that path so then I question are these are these eyewitness accounts even of the murderer
00:37:40
well we don't know what we do know is that they tell us that the what we're seeing in the video the the man in the
00:37:47
video Bridge man is is the killer and then we're getting these two sketches of people that were seen in the area on the
00:37:57
paths and the sketches to me are fascinating in the sense of thinking about it this way as well so let's
00:38:08
assume in this situation right you would assume that you would have one person that you wouldn't know who they are
00:38:15
that's the killer the killer is not going to come forward and say no that was me on the path there that day we
00:38:23
find that highly unlikely okay not that it would never happen but we know it probably has not happened to this point
00:38:31
but let's say both of these people and multiple people that offered up this this person that they claimed to have
00:38:42
seen that day if we're to believe all of them then we have two persons at least two people that don't look anything like
00:38:51
each other so I'm gonna go ahead and say two people right that are unknown to us
00:38:56
at this time when we should only have one and so then you and I were talking about this and you brought up a good
00:39:03
point and I countered it with a with a another good point you said well then it also made now that makes me wonder how
00:39:09
many other people you have that you're that are unknown to you yeah it's not like you walk into
00:39:16
parking you check-in you know or there's some like camera that you have to go by
00:39:22
and then we can go well will you know that there was a hundred people there that day and 98 of them were accounted
00:39:28
for 99 of them are accounted for one thing I question in this though is there a chance that we that there's a person
00:39:36
that's been made up that there they dive into that further so what I mean by that
00:39:42
is we're we're we're sitting here going okay if both of these sketches are correct and we have two people that have
00:39:47
not come forward two people that are unknown to us right and then you brought up the good point that well that if you
00:39:55
got to then maybe you have more and I agree with that possibility as well I also think about the idea of maybe we
00:40:03
don't have two people that were there what if one of these people is just a bad description of of a person that's
00:40:10
already come forward right what what if for whatever reason somebody look they had the best of intentions they're
00:40:18
trying to help their misremembering and they're describing somebody that they didn't really see they saw somebody else
00:40:24
instead or it's a mash-up of multiple people that they saw that day right and we we also don't know when working in
00:40:30
these reports and so what we do know at one point you know the we know okay correct me if I'm wrong but we do know
00:40:40
that that the father was there looking for the girls yeah Derek was there we know he was there because he was in
00:40:48
charge of picking them up that day and I could see you know somebody given a bad
00:40:53
description and saying that bridge guy kind of looks like him kind of see that I I think the grandfather looks more
00:41:02
like bridge guy number one the drawing again is are there are these people searching are they asking for
00:41:10
eyewitnesses did somebody come forward a week later and say yeah I saw this guy and give you a bad description and all
00:41:17
they saw was you know Derek looking for the girls from my understanding both of those sketches and I'm just going off of
00:41:26
words that in mind you they're choosing their words carefully but from press conferences and
00:41:33
from interviews that police and investigators and state police have done with with the public in the media
00:41:40
those two sketches from everything I've seen were developed within 48 hours of the girls going missing right
00:41:49
and in both were both they came up with both sketches because they were eyewitness statements and in accounts
00:41:56
and eat look you have was that there's like a meatpacking place pretty close by a lot of sex offenders there there's a
00:42:04
lot of sex offenders in the area it's very possible that somebody was just taking a hike not doing anything
00:42:11
bad but has a record or has a kind of a dark history that it's just not gonna come forward I just don't see and again
00:42:23
we don't know because it's not that that information hasn't been put out there they're not saying that this eyewitness
00:42:29
saw the person coming back through an entrance or exit so we don't know where they actually saw this individual right
00:42:37
well I mean probably no I'm right the police know I can't say for certain but the the things that I'm seeing reading
00:42:47
hearing is okay so we talked a little bit about the flannel shirt man the flannel shirt man is believed to be one
00:42:54
of the witnesses to seeing one of these individuals in the sketch and I believe I think the general thought is that
00:43:02
flannel shirt man saw what he described to be the first sketch that came out okay so the slight the the older-looking
00:43:10
of the two in my opinion and the thing is the way that this has been described is that this man based off of his
00:43:20
timeline would have seen bridge guy on the trail on the 501 trail walking away from the moanin High Bridge and he's
00:43:35
believed it's believed that bridge guy was leaving at that time leaving the area in the process of doing such
00:43:43
so we know from Derek's statements as well Derek saw the flannel shirt man when he arrived around 3:15 to pick up
00:43:52
his daughter so that that would put flannel shirt man and Derek at the intersecting trails at 505 and 501
00:44:04
around 3:14 3:15 p.m. now flannel shirt guy is going to say that he saw bridge guy around the same time mm-hmm
00:44:14
but he also saw Derek so we we have a general marker and place marker for where Bridge guy may have been around 3
00:44:23
let's back it up and say 310 - maybe 320 and the the thing that I would love to see the most in this guy statement and
00:44:32
flannel shirt guy's statement is is it police saying the bridge guy was leaving at that time just basing everything off
00:44:42
of the known facts of the case and in their timeline or was that that dudes statement he was leaving why would he
00:44:51
know if the guys coming or going or anything different that seems a little strange to me I would love to know if
00:44:57
that's if that's flannel shirt guy's words or if that's the investigators words because that would be about the
00:45:04
time he should be leaving right we know they were alive and well at 2:07 and then we have statements from the family
00:45:12
saying that around 3:30 or so the phone was going straight to voicemail wasn't even ringing anymore the thing is we
00:45:21
have a very very small window things happen very fast that day once they started going wrong right we're talking
00:45:31
the this attack and murder and everything happened between 207 and 3:30 and you can even Whittle that down
00:45:39
faster if you believe some of the other known statements right so let's go through this real quick
00:45:46
207 that pictures taken there's no bridge guy on the bridge at that time they say that it would take seven
00:45:54
minutes for somebody to walk that bridge now that's if you're walking you're very mindful of your
00:46:00
steps you're you're you're watching your steps as you go along you're being very
00:46:04
safe cautious I actually think bridge guy moved a lot faster than that wasn't so cautious I think that's what probably
00:46:14
alerted the girls that this dude is weird that he's something is up right or scary right I think they look back on
00:46:23
the bridge and all of a sudden this guy's on the bridge and he's moving he's moving at a good pace he's not running
00:46:29
you can't run on that bridge but he's moving at a good pace and not only is he moving at a good pace he's he's watching
00:46:35
his steps and he's turning and he's checking behind him every now and then to make sure nobody is behind him
00:46:41
nobody's behind him with their and they're thinking yeah what should this guy care if nobody's behind him and why
00:46:49
is he moving so a vast login so he doesn't want to be seen so then I then I question because did he try to make the
00:46:58
girls cross the water or or did they actually make a run for it you know I heard somebody say that they think that
00:47:06
it was his idea for them to cross but that's probably where he lost control of them and that's why they you know he
00:47:14
took their lives on the other side but you know we don't know the details of how he took their lives other than they
00:47:25
believed there was a weapon involved so we know that but then we also know that there's a very good possibility right
00:47:34
what almost at least a hundred percent chance that he was wet on some level and so again yeah he would have to be at
00:47:43
some point that day he he he was in the water right the and that's again what makes me believe that he didn't
00:47:50
backtrack okay now this is done let me get back on that main trail I know I don't know those trails that unless he
00:47:59
had to you know what I mean I I get what you're saying I'm fully with those of the bridge right so it when I look at
00:48:06
this thing if you were going to try to plan this out and make it go down without any problems at all
00:48:12
here's how it goes down you see them a little bit after 207 and this is the thing you would actually go
00:48:21
down trail 505 the less traveled trail the 501 leads to the moanin high bridge okay but on the 505 when you walk down
00:48:34
there and you get Creekside I'm wondering if there's a spot down there because what happens is picture of V
00:48:42
right the the trail start off together and they don't when I say intersecting it's not an X it's more of a thin V
00:48:51
where one goes off to to one side a little bit but you're basically walking these trails and a friend of yours could
00:49:01
walk on the other and and really you just have a small tree line separating you for a while and then it extends it
00:49:07
extends it extends and you get a little further and further from one another but
00:49:11
what I'm getting at is somebody could sit there could post up on the 505 down there near the creek and you could spot
00:49:21
people coming I'm guessing because I've never been there but I would think that you might be able to see people
00:49:27
approaching the bridge from your viewpoint and if you see what you think to be your possible victims hmm there is
00:49:37
just two people there's nobody else with them and there's nobody else around or on the bridge at that time that's when
00:49:44
you you don't have to go back out to that main trail you could cut across and really you're gonna end up right at the
00:49:50
front of the bridge and so at 2:07 they're fine but this guy didn't take seven minutes to move across that bridge
00:49:58
he moved across that bridge and in five or four he was faster he was moving faster than if somebody was watching
00:50:07
their steps mm-hmm he scooted across that bridge that puts us at 12 after two and then he
00:50:16
is if we're to believe that the eyewitness statement is correct and it is in fact the bridge guy then that puts
00:50:24
him back at that intersection of the trail and out one hour later so a lot of things have happened during that time
00:50:31
and I'm with you though captain if you were to plan this thing out perfectly once you see them get to the other side
00:50:38
of the bridge they're completely compromised now you go up well all up most likely anybody that could help them
00:50:45
or anybody could that could view what I'm doing there on the backs they're on this other side of the bridge right the
00:50:51
girls are on the opposite side of the bridge that's where I'm gonna get them that's where I'm gonna take control if
00:50:57
you I mean you just watch the words and you you map out a quick little location of where they were found you can see
00:51:04
down the hill across this little driveway that actually looks like a road and then it's down the hill more across
00:51:13
the creek and then they're found right there both of their bodies are found right there if you were to plan this out
00:51:19
perfectly you probably would have parked your vehicle in the graveyard where there are little roads that go back by
00:51:27
the trees you could have put your vehicle over there and after killing them you could have walked through the
00:51:33
woods up to the graveyard never going on a trail again the only trail you have anywhere near you on that opposite side
00:51:42
of Deer Creek are the horse trails for Ron Logan's farm but those aren't there's a horse trails they're not
00:51:49
traveled by the the people that are visiting the bridge or the park so that would be the fee if you wanted to to not
00:51:57
be seen after the attack that would be your where you would really want to park your car now the issue could be though
00:52:05
he didn't know that he didn't know exactly where he was going to do this attack or exactly how it was going to go
00:52:13
down and maybe his vehicle was left elsewhere beforehand and one thought is the the vehicle that was parked at the
00:52:22
abandoned building which that would have required him to go back up that trail and in the opposite way you would
00:52:30
probably try to walk off the trail as much as possible but at some point you might have to pop back on to that that
00:52:36
trail well getting hard to kind of visualize some of this stuff because like the entrance
00:52:42
where the girls were dropped off at I believe they have like a new gate there so that looks different than the day of
00:52:50
the murders and then where the abandoned car was there's no a band or where the car was by the abandoned building
00:53:00
there's no abandoned building anymore so but it kind of looks like a little service road in between like a highway
00:53:09
where that car would be parked and then it would be facing depending on where you were parking you'd be looking right
00:53:16
at the freedom bridge yeah so you have yeah you have the what was that highway 25 is right there on your on to your
00:53:26
left here's an interesting thing to think of though - okay so if that was his car at the parked at the abandoned
00:53:36
building he would have had to walk back up the 5 of the 501 trail the the most heavily traveled trail and make his way
00:53:47
up that way most likely I'm sure there's probably ways to do that but keep in mind you have the mirrors farm a lot of
00:53:54
this property right here are the is belongs to the Mir family or Mears family and remember you mentioned that
00:54:01
Mike Patti looks something like the bridge guy in your opinion he he might not have been able to been mistaken for
00:54:10
bridge guy because given the timeline we have he would not have been at the park
00:54:16
or near the bridge at the time that the witness saw bridge guy but their statement in the press conference from
00:54:26
for 22 of this year their exact words police where we are seeking the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle
00:54:34
that was parked at the old CPS / DC s welfare building in the city of Delphi that was abandoned on the east side of
00:54:45
County Road 300 North next to the Hoosier Heartland highway that's also highway 25 between the hours of
00:54:52
noon to 5:00 on February 14th 2017 and then it says in this presser note it has been updated that date was misspoken it
00:55:02
should have been February 13th which was the day the girls went missing so this CPS DCs welfare building was a
00:55:11
like a like a child support building at one time right and so it was like a government city building but it was
00:55:22
abandoned at the time On February 13 2017 they're asking for the driver of a vehicle and what makes you wonder are
00:55:32
they just going okay we we saw this vehicle nobody in it or saying hey we want to identify the driver of this
00:55:42
vehicle are they saying that there's a there was a driver in it at that time I don't know it's not clear enough know it
00:55:53
right and so that changes the whole dynamic right we're looking for this driver that was in the car that changes
00:56:01
the whole dynamic right if you were parked there or no whose are saying the driver if you were parked there you know
00:56:08
who was parked there it's like were you in the well yeah the car didn't kill the
00:56:13
girls they're like they're looking for an individual no but what I'm saying is that you know they're not saying we're
00:56:19
looking for the owner of the car now they're saying the driver of the car right somebody put that car there
00:56:27
somebody move that car later right that's who they're looking for saying if going on to say if you parked there or
00:56:33
know who was parked there please contact the officers at the command post at the
00:56:39
Delphi City Building but again that doesn't mean that that that is your killer but that's a very quick way to go
00:56:48
when you start going okay well where did he park because that's that's a really big question that nobody usually gets to
00:56:53
when they start talking about Delphi in my opinion is this guy left some way he left the areas somehow he fled the area
00:57:03
after the attack we don't know what time he got there we could assume I would assume he probably
00:57:10
arrived before the girls did he may have arrived long enough before where he was
00:57:15
he's waiting this thing out and looking for a victim I don't I don't feel like it's highly likely that he just arrives
00:57:25
and immediately spots a victim that doesn't seem likely to me there were other people there that day he didn't
00:57:34
choose some of them in my opinion right right well and I I think that's why if this is premeditated like in the sense
00:57:43
that they this killer knew going and going to this part corner to these trails that he's going to do this you
00:57:50
know the the service road by the bridge you know down the hill like like we said
00:57:55
whether it's a driveway or service bridge or a service road or or well it's it's a road that becomes a driveway to a
00:58:03
residence right and then but then there's also once you cross the water a little bit further down I believe
00:58:11
there's some access there further down I believe it if the person knew this killer goes there knowing they're gonna
00:58:19
try to do this that their truck or car is gonna be parked somewhere they're not so much at an entrance or out of where
00:58:29
people could see this individual that's my gut feeling oh yeah no I agree 100% with you that's why I said he would have
00:58:38
been parked in the the graveyard would be the right right most likely spot I mean and the problem with parking so so
00:58:45
where you would put your vehicle if you wanted to park closest all right yeah well I like hole things the whole
00:58:53
thing's a crime scene right the whole place is a crime scene from the minute he stepped on the ground to the moment
00:58:58
he left yeah every everything that his feet touched is a crime scene however if you were to plan this out in great
00:59:06
detail and everything go your way then ideally you would Park you would want your vehicle I believe to be as close to
00:59:15
the ending point of your crime scene right then the beginning point of your crime
00:59:20
scene because you're going to if this is a messy murder there's any number of ways that you can look different at the
00:59:30
end of this crime then you would walking step stepping foot on to the crime scene
00:59:35
for the first time yeah you know we already talked about his genes likely were wet he went through the water at
00:59:41
some point that day we've there's no question about that unless he unless this [ __ ] can hover he went through
00:59:48
the water that day okay that would make a good shirt and then on top of that he very likely could have had blood on his
00:59:55
person or on his belonging somewhere hmm and either those are giant red flags keep him they were looking for missing
01:00:03
girls that day they weren't looking for murdered girls that day they were looking for missing girls that day they
01:00:08
weren't looking for a murder suspect that day he got away he fled pretty undetected whether he was seen by the
01:00:17
flannel shirt guy or not he fled pretty undetected so if you were to map this thing out and carry it out the exact way
01:00:24
that you would want to ideally you want to put your vehicle as close to the ending point of the crime and the crimes
01:00:33
in the crime scene as possible well right and instead of just having it on a residential Drive all right or some
01:00:40
other road that that would stick out like a sore thumb but if you park at the at the graveyard right yeah if you park
01:00:50
at the here's the problem with that very spot you could park at the graveyard and
01:00:55
be okay I would think the other the areas that are as close to you as the graveyard mind you we're going from
01:01:02
white where the bodies were found the other areas that you could park that would be close to you at that point
01:01:08
that's private property that belongs belongs to Ron Logan that belongs to the Mears family that seems quite a bit more
01:01:17
risky to me than parking at the graveyard yeah unless unless you know you know Logan's whereabouts
01:01:27
or you know the family but still again if you're going there with the idea that you're gonna commit a crime if you know
01:01:36
these individuals you don't want them to be able to say oh yeah I saw I saw this
01:01:41
guy's vehicle on my property that day I think the graveyard makes the most sense
01:01:46
too because it's like there had to be some other visitors right so it's not so suspicious if you have a car that's you
01:01:55
know I can't see anybody here oh they might apart and walk down to a grave and and and spending a little time at the
01:02:03
grave well I mean the graveyard was was it a working graveyard it seems to be right i i i I know what you mean I I
01:02:14
sorry for laughing there but I do think that yes you did it's still spots are available it is what I think you might
01:02:22
buy that and if you look at it on Google map there is a picture a rectangle okay
01:02:30
and right off of the road you're going somewhere else with that the road West 300 north so if you look off of 300
01:02:39
north you have the graveyard right there on one side of the road now the graveyard is lined out like a big
01:02:45
rectangle which it has a drive you can drive in go all the way to the back of the property and I believe at the tree
01:02:53
line you can actually go across the tree line and then then head back out the other way so you have two running roads
01:03:00
or drives from 300 North that basically encompass this graveyard there's places to drive and what I'm getting at here
01:03:11
too is you can you could drive a fair distance away from the road and put your vehicle back by by the tree line and
01:03:19
there's also a little center crossing section as well that you can drive on now I don't know how the width of those
01:03:28
if they're you know two lanes both ways or if it's just a single lane usually with the in a graveyard type setting
01:03:35
usually it's just a single lane to make it easier for people to access different
01:03:40
parts of the grave you to visit people but here's another really interesting thought captain we
01:03:48
have an eyewitness several eyewitnesses actually saying that they saw an individual who's not come forward we
01:03:57
don't know who either of them are it could just be one person could be two I don't want to mix words here I don't
01:04:04
think that there's two killers I think there's one killer well I think that cops would know that based off the the
01:04:10
audio and video footage yeah and but here's the thing with there being no vehicle description police love a
01:04:18
vehicle description they would rather have a vehicle description than a person description they love it it's easier to
01:04:27
find the car it's easier to find the car it's harder to harder to hide the car we
01:04:33
don't have one here so I wonder a little bit did this guy arrive on foot and leave on foot now it seems a little
01:04:41
confusing maybe two people that are not from the area but if you do a type up some some maps you know bring up any map
01:04:51
and end up maps and you bring up some directions and you play around with it one thing I found you could walk you
01:04:59
actually the distance is shorter walking that it is driving because the way that
01:05:03
the roads are laid out in this particular area so you could walk from the middle of the moanin High Bridge
01:05:11
mm-hmm and you could be at East Main Street Delphi and it's a one point two mile walk you would have to go over the
01:05:23
freedom bridge for the shortest route but that would be the direction that it's believed that bridge guy if in fact
01:05:30
he was the killer but the the flannel shirt man says that he saw bridge guy on the 501 trail heading toward the freedom
01:05:40
bridge at about 3:10 to 3:20 somebody could walk that's crazy somebody could walk from the middle of
01:05:49
the moanin high bridge to East Main Street Delphi be it be in Delphi at 1.2 miles right so about 15 to 17
01:06:00
minutes yeah 15 to 20 minutes well let me tell you a little story to open up some possibilities I'll make it quick
01:06:09
so I was intern for a long time as a recording engineer at this point like I I didn't do a lot of sessions I didn't I
01:06:18
had knowledge of this stuff but I have never done it myself other than like maybe bringing in some of my buddies to
01:06:25
record so they said my boss says to me hey there's a night session do you want to do it and of course us nervous and
01:06:37
said no I don't really want to do it he goes well no I'm gonna set it up it's easy two microphones on this piano all
01:06:45
you have to do is hit record and stop the guy he's he's from Athens Ohio was that about an hour and a half away yeah
01:06:56
roughly a drive mm-hmm he's from Athens he's a great kind of jazzy bluesy piano player we had this great piano but it
01:07:06
wasn't tuned and we had some rattles and bellowing but the guy didn't really care
01:07:11
was this demo and so my boss was giving him a discount because the piano wasn't working perfectly so we go and record
01:07:22
three or four tunes and after after two or three songs this guy's is playing live he'd come back in and listen this
01:07:30
guy's very scruffy he has a book bag with him and a guitar case you know that you'd wear as book bag so I go out to
01:07:39
make some coffee and then I go out to my car and I realize he has no car there and I'm thinking well this is strange so
01:07:48
we were almost done with the session and I see he has this guitar case so I unzip
01:07:54
the guitar case because I just want to see what guitar he has in the back right I shouldn't have done that but I did
01:08:02
anyways there was a I see a gun and at this plant I'm freaked out of my mind so in the session
01:08:13
I am back in the day I had a have to make a CD for him here you go take this with you and I said somebody come in to
01:08:23
get you and he said yeah so you get he leaves pays I clean up the studio go to leave
01:08:32
probably five minutes after him I start driving I don't see him anywhere around you know you know remember the studio
01:08:40
was really far back mm-hmm five minutes later I'm I am driving problem on 33 and I see him
01:08:49
walking this guy walked all the way from Athens set up a recording session walked
01:08:58
all the way from Athens played his songs took paid me took the CD and started walking back now I don't know if he was
01:09:09
meeting somebody somewhere but he was walking on the freeway but point of this long story was cuz one I I was thinking
01:09:18
about that gun and how much oh how freaked out I was but the point of the story is this individual could have
01:09:25
walked from really far away and I I hate to be the guy that to say there's so many possibilities but this guy booked a
01:09:39
session walked two hour and a half played five or six songs and then took off walking back it's not out of the
01:09:47
realm of possibilities well and not only that in this situation I'm bringing this
01:09:52
up for a couple different reasons one East Main Street Delphi one mile 1.2 miles from the bridge 15 20 minutes yeah
01:10:04
so this guy I mean there's there's plenty of houses over there this guy could have lived in a neighborhood near
01:10:10
there and just walked home he could have parked anywhere really within 1.2 miles
01:10:16
of the bridge you could have parked in any of these neighborhoods that are a mile and a half
01:10:21
from the bridge no and so he doesn't necessarily have to be parked at the abandoned building or parked in the
01:10:29
graveyard or parked on Ron Logan's property he very likely could have been parked in an area that nobody would
01:10:35
found to have been suspicious at all because it's a heavy heavily traveled area it's it's an area where there's a
01:10:41
lot of cars parked on the side of the road right buddy parks in a parking lot somewhere but you have to be careful of
01:10:48
those areas because if it's a busy parking lot then you have the possibility of being seen if you're
01:10:54
covered in blood mud or water right you know so that I get what you're saying and and and that's what's so frustrating
01:11:03
about this case though it says every time I'm I'm looking into it I start feeling like I'm getting somewhere and
01:11:10
then the doors of the possibility just blown open and and I wonder I wonder if it's gonna be another situation where if
01:11:22
we don't hear anything in in six months to a year if they're gonna have to keep putting out information that they know
01:11:29
because they have to be getting in a lolis I mean this case is highly covered on YouTube I mean there's seems like
01:11:37
there's a million armchair detectives working on this case like solely working on this case not like hey we covered
01:11:44
this case and we moved on to another case the following week like people that are just like that's all they're doing
01:11:51
well and that's why I think it's important to examine the possibilities and the reasons why this is not
01:11:57
themselves [Music] [Applause]