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GameChanger [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always as a man that would like to remind us all that you can
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observe a lot just by watching he is the captain and I'd like to remind you that
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playing a game of flicky flicky in public is a crime it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for
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go to True Crime garage.com and click on that donate button and that's enough for
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the business that's right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:22
[Music] crime [Music] 911 where's your mergency 1810 C Street please what's wrong my
00:03:52
wife had an accident she's still breathing what kind of accident still down the stairs she's still breathing
00:03:57
please is she conscious is she no she's not conscious okay how many stairs did you fall down huh how many St stairs
00:04:05
stairs how many stairs calm down sir calm down no 15 20 I don't know please get somebody here right way
00:04:15
please okay somebody's dispatching the ambulance while I ask you question it's it's a for CH okay please
00:04:24
[Music] pleaseee [Music] Kathleen Peterson was born February 2st 1953 in Greensboro North Carolina she
00:04:50
grew up in Lancaster Pennsylvania and graduated first in her class at high school also voted Girl of the Year so
00:04:58
it's quite obvious she was well-liked and respected by her fellow classmates she moved to Durham North Carolina to
00:05:06
attend Duke University it's been reported she was the first female student accepted into Duke's engineering
00:05:13
school so a very bright young woman she met her first husband Fred Atwater at Duke they had a daughter Caitlyn their
00:05:23
marriage did not last later she met Michael Peterson Michael graduated from Duke as well after extensive schooling
00:05:32
and education Peterson took a job with the US Department of Defense to research military involvement in Vietnam he also
00:05:40
had a first marriage to a lady named Patricia Sue she taught Elementary School on the ryy main air force base in
00:05:49
West Germany they had two children Clayton and Todd in 1968 Peterson enlisted in the Marines and served in
00:05:58
Vietnam in 19 1971 he received an honorable discharge with the rank of Captain after a car accident left him
00:06:06
with a permanent disability Michael and Patricia lived in Germany for some time there they befriended Elizabeth and
00:06:13
George Ratliff and their two children Margaret and Martha now unfortunately George would pass away and after his
00:06:21
death the Petersons and the Ratliff families became very close when Elizabeth Ratliff died in 19 1985
00:06:30
Michael became the guardian of her two children after Michael and Patricia divorced in 1987 Clayton and Todd the
00:06:38
two sons went to live with their mother Patricia and Margaret and Martha stayed with Michael who then moved to Durham
00:06:46
North Carolina Clayton and Todd would later also join their father okay so both are divorced then when later
00:06:55
Michael and Kathleen meet and then they are together in 199 92 the couple bought
00:07:00
a 14 room dream home on Cedar Street and 5 years later Kathleen and Michael married in
00:07:07
1997 now our murder case and the day in question takes place in 2001 by this time Kathleen is and has been a
00:07:17
successful business executive for Norton making about $150,000 a year Peterson Michael
00:07:24
Peterson wrote three novels based around his experiences during the yanes conflict The Immortal Dragon a time of
00:07:33
war and a bitter peace are the three titles of his books he also co-authored several other books and he worked as a
00:07:41
newspaper columnist for the Durham herold's son where his colums became known for their criticism of police and
00:07:48
Durham County District Attorney James Harden Jr mainly because of what Peterson suggested was a lack of ability
00:07:56
for the local Law and Order to solve cases and get convictions well let's start with the timeline of the murder so
00:08:03
we'll start a day before the actual event so on Friday December 7th 2001 Kathleen takes the day off from work
00:08:12
that afternoon the Petersons Michael and Kathleen go Christmas shopping Friday evening the Petersons attend an event
00:08:20
for the North Carolina independent party Michael was involved in politics at different points in his life so it makes
00:08:27
sense that they would be attending this event now on Saturday December 8th at approximately 3:30 p.m. hundreds of
00:08:37
files are deleted from Michael Peterson's PC with a dis purging program called quick clean at 4:41 p.m. Michael
00:08:48
arrives at the YMCA gym at approximately 6:00 p.m. the married couple talks about
00:08:54
renting a movie for the night at 6:59 p.m. m Micha rents America's America sweethearts at Blockbuster
00:09:04
Video at 9:45 p.m. Christine thetti arrives at the Peterson's home to take Todd their son to a party she sees
00:09:14
Kathleen and Michael sharing a bottle of wine at this time around 10:20 p.m. Christine and Todd leave for this party
00:09:22
at 10:40 p.m. the password Atwater logs into the Peterson's PC Michael Peterson says that they finished
00:09:32
the movie probably around 1100 p.m. and then they went to the kitchen and talked
00:09:38
for a while Michael later says that the two would talk at night for 2 to three hours sometimes and that he knows that
00:09:45
they drank two bottles of wine that night he does not give a more exact amount of time that they are in the
00:09:52
kitchen drinking and talking but pay attention because the following times are extremely important to our case at
00:09:59
11:08 p.m. Norton Network's coworker Helen pringer later testified that she talked to Cathleen Peterson at this time
00:10:09
and that Kathleen did not sound intoxicated and did not seem abnormal in any way she did not sense that Kathleen
00:10:17
and Michael Peterson were fighting at this time and he heard Kathleen ask her husband for his email address Miss
00:10:26
pringer said Kathleen needed a document for a teleconference scheduled for 10:00
00:10:31
a.m. the next day and was expecting an email with that a doc with that document attached the email was in fact sent to
00:10:41
Michael Peterson's email address at 10:53 p.m. pringer email arrives the blank email's PowerPoint attachment was
00:10:51
never opened the attachment was titled Readiness on Sunday December 9th 2001 Maybe sometime after midnight the
00:11:00
Petersons drank and talked outside near the pool please note it is about 50° out
00:11:07
at night that night at this time according to Michael after talking in the kitchen the two went to the pool and
00:11:14
quote we were talking here indicates near the pool for a fair amount of time again Captain not giving us a great
00:11:23
exact understanding of how long he believes they were out there and at what time did they go to the pool but
00:11:30
indicating that they were outside talking and another statement he actually says that they're out on the
00:11:34
porch for a while mhm then they go out to the pool area but Michael was a a pipe smoker so he would smoke his pipe
00:11:45
and talk outside so yes it's kind of chilly outside but he's smoking I think Kathleen might have been a
00:11:53
smoker maybe on some level you know you know we have those people that smoke when they drink
00:11:59
um and I that because later Nico in her body she could have joined a smoke or just took a puff or two uh when they're
00:12:09
outside having their conversation but there's also a lot of people that when they drink it's like uh right when they
00:12:16
start drinking they don't need one but once they get past a certain point they need many cigarettes so right away I
00:12:24
don't see I don't have any red flags no major red flags going on off regarding Michael Peterson's statements about that
00:12:31
night well I mean other than the computer being cleaned right right that seems odd but on top of that I mean as
00:12:39
far as what's going down at this point in the evening 11:00 12:00 maybe a little bit
00:12:45
later having watched the docu series the staircase they didn't directly show this
00:12:51
but often when Michael Peterson is kind of doing the one-on-one thing with the camera I almost always see like little
00:13:00
red stains on the side of his lips like this comes off to me as a guy that very much likes drinking his wine um and so
00:13:09
him saying that him and his wife were hanging out on a Saturday night having a couple bottles of wine does not strike
00:13:15
me as weird it actually I I think this is probably exactly what was going down at that time and we also have the
00:13:23
eyewitness that came in to pick up the sun says hey I saw the two hanging out and they were drinking together
00:13:29
now according to Michael this is where I start to wonder about things because according to
00:13:35
Michael at approximately 2:30 a.m. he leaves the pool area he goes inside and he finds his wife at the bottom of the
00:13:43
stairs go back what time did she leave the pool area well that's what's a little bit unclear to me because he
00:13:50
states that we were out here for a fair amount of time talking we were uh talking together and he estimates that
00:13:58
she could have left as long as 45 minutes to an hour before he left the pool area or it could have been as
00:14:06
little as 30 minutes from when he left the pool area but during that time sometime during that time Kathleen
00:14:14
leaves the pool area and heads inside for bed Michael stays outside to drink and has a smoke like you said then
00:14:22
Kathleen at some point suffers multiple deep complex lacerations and avulsions to the SCP multiple small abrasions and
00:14:31
contusions to the face and a fracture with Associated Hemorrhage of the thyroid cartilage in the neck so quite a
00:14:40
bit of injuries during this time right now depending on which report you read and this is not a major deal because
00:14:48
we're talking about a difference of 60 seconds or so some Reports say at 2:40 a.m. some say 2:41 a.m. Michael Peterson
00:14:55
calls 9911 and that's the 911 call that you heard at the start of the show now the operator picks up and says Durham
00:15:03
911 where is your emergency to which Michael replies uh 1810 Cedar Street please operator what's wrong Peterson my
00:15:13
wife had an accident she's still breathing operator what kind of accident Michael Peterson she fell down the
00:15:20
stairs she's still breathing please come 911 is she conscious Peterson what 911 is she conscious Peterson no she's not
00:15:30
conscious please 911 how many stairs did she fall down Michael Peterson what what
00:15:38
911 how many stairs Peterson uh uh uh he's failing to give an answer there regarding the stairs I get this doesn't
00:15:49
seem like a question he might have been expecting whether he's guilty or innocent the 911 operator tells him to
00:15:56
calm down calm down sir calm down Peter no damned 1620 I don't know please get somebody here right away please 911 okay
00:16:06
somebody's dispatching the ambulance while I'm asking you questions Peterson it's uh oh it's Forest Hills okay please
00:16:16
please 911 okay sir someone is dispatching the ambulance is she awake now Peterson um um 911 hello hello
00:16:27
Peterson um um um now that's the end of that call asked if she's awake now Peterson does not give an answer and for
00:16:37
whatever reason we don't know but the call is ended 2:46 a.m. Michael Peterson calls 911 a second time 911 durm 911
00:16:47
what is your emergency Peterson where are they it's 1810 Cedar she's not breathing please please would you hurry
00:16:54
up 911 sir Peterson can you hear me 911 sir Peterson yes 911 sir calm down they're on their way can you tell me for
00:17:04
sure she's not breathing sir hello hello at 2:48 a.m. paramedics arrive and Kathleen Peterson is found dead in a
00:17:14
hallway at 3:00 a.m. police and detectives begin to arrive and search 1810 Cedar Street at 3:24 a.m.
00:17:23
investigators secure the scene now between 4:15 and 5 a.m. some point Peterson logs on to his
00:17:31
office computer and he's overheard mumbling something about email at 5:00 a.m. Michael Peterson calls his
00:17:39
attorney now let's go into some more detailed accounts of what took place during this time shall we so we have
00:17:48
James Rose and Ron paage paramedics with the durm County Emergency Medical Services they arrive at the Peterson's
00:17:56
Residence at the same time Michael son Todd Peterson arrived the Peterson's house is a large estate home with an
00:18:05
open 4year entrance the paramedics found the front door open and noticed blood on
00:18:10
it straight ahead through the front door is the large main staircase leading to the second floor immediately to the left
00:18:19
after entering is a front hallway leading down to the kitchen off of this hallway near the kitchen is an enclosed
00:18:27
narrow stairwell also leading to the second floor yeah it kind of there's a turn in in the staircase as well yeah
00:18:36
and upon entering the house the paramedics observed Kathleen lying at the bottom of this stairwell her legs
00:18:43
were out into the hallway and her head was just inside the encased open door frame where the first few steps are
00:18:51
located now the stairwell runs parallel to the hallway but has a few angled steps as you had just mentioned at at
00:18:58
the bottom designed to open up the staircase perpendicular into that hallway Michael was seen standing over
00:19:06
Kathleen in a semi- knees bent position with blood on his hands arms legs and feet he wore shorts and a t-shirt uh
00:19:16
this t-shirt is partially soaked blood soaked with splatter spots when paramedics arrived at Kathleen's body
00:19:23
Todd the son tried to pull his father away stating dad she's dead the paramedics are here paramedics Rose and
00:19:31
Paige quickly determined that Kathleen had no pulse and she was not breathing Michael stated that he had gone outside
00:19:38
to turn off the lights came back in and then found her at the bottom of the steps paramedic Rose testified later
00:19:46
that there was an enormous amount of blood he said dried blood was on the steps and also on the wall and it also
00:19:55
looked like it had been wiped away or wiped on on it had been smeared instead of just blood droplets on the wall he
00:20:04
testified that based on his experience there was an unusual amount of blood for a fall and that the most severe injury
00:20:12
he had seen from a fall was a broken neck the blood under Kathleen's head had already clotted and started to harden so
00:20:21
detective Holland was asked to give his opinion on this scene yeah he's from the
00:20:26
homicide unit and they wanted to bring him in because they were a little confused about what they are seeing
00:20:32
right there's we have a a call that a a person fell down the stairs that there's
00:20:37
been an accident yet they're seeing a lot of blood and they're seeing blood in different places throughout the house
00:20:43
which is calling it they're calling the scene suspicious right so Holland says that he received a page approximately
00:20:50
around 3:00 in the morning and that he was going to arrive at this death investigation he he said that the call
00:20:59
he received came in as someone had fallen down the steps but upon arrival detective Holland says this does not
00:21:05
look like an accident forming an immediate opinion detective Holland identified himself to Mr Peterson and
00:21:12
even shook his hand and explained to him that he was sorry for his loss but that
00:21:18
it appeared that the scene looked suspicious and it needed to be processed at trial detective Holland was asked was
00:21:26
Michael helpful at that point did he answer your initial questions detective Holland said no no he pretty
00:21:33
much was very quiet kept to himself didn't say a whole lot now police videotaped the scene as the officers
00:21:41
found it Michael Peterson's tennis shoes and socks by the foot of the body white
00:21:48
towels soaked red with blood from Kathleen's injury to the back of her head blood smears up the oak staircase
00:21:57
and on the wall above detective Holland called for a crime scene analyst and expert in blood spatter who in turn told
00:22:06
the detective he felt strongly that this was a homicide for the next 20 hours officers meticulously photographed and
00:22:15
documented what they now regarded as a crime scene there was a small amount of blood outside on the walkway blood
00:22:23
stains on the front door the blood on the kitchen sink uh uh a wine bottle and glasses on the counter every inch of the
00:22:32
3 Acre property was combed luminol testing revealed bloody Footprints leading from Kathleen Peterson's body
00:22:39
into the laundry room then going to the kitchen refrigerator and sink then moving to a wine glass cabinet which
00:22:47
also had blood on it the footprints mysteriously stopped at the cabinet they just stopped yeah later at trial the
00:22:55
defense would challenge the cops on what they didn't do at the Peterson house the
00:23:00
police didn't tape off the area of the stairwell until 3:34 a.m. almost an hour after the call came in and by then it
00:23:09
was too late Peterson's lawyers criticized what they called sloppy police procedures the blood in that area
00:23:18
had been altered the scene at the house had been contaminated example Michael goes up to Kathleen with the police
00:23:26
watching hugs her Todd takes him the son puts him on the couch where there's blood transfer and
00:23:34
then Todd says can I get some soda in a glass and the police say sure and he goes there he goes Todd walking around
00:23:43
the kitchen with blood on his hands so at trial police would point out that they found blood in suspicious locations
00:23:51
mainly in different areas of the kitchen right and that these were red flags however as I just stated you can see you
00:24:00
can kind of see why there may have been blood in strange locations throughout the kitchen and in my opinion the blood
00:24:07
in the kitchen area for example was a complete irrelevancy once you establish that there was contamination there in
00:24:15
the kitchen with the police standing right by well they also did tests to make sure that there there wasn't any
00:24:21
cleaning products used in the kitchen to clean up any evidence and there was none
00:24:26
found later that day Dr Dr Deborah radish a pathologist with the office of the North Carolina medical examiner
00:24:33
performed an autopsy on Kathleen's body toxicology results showed that Kathleen's blood alcohol content was
00:24:41
.7% the autopsy report concluded that Kathleen sustained a matrix of severe injuries including a fracture of the
00:24:49
thyroid neck cartilage and seven lacerations caused by a homicidal assault to the top and back of her head
00:24:57
consistent with blows from a blunt object the result of repeated blows with a light yet rigid weapon and had died
00:25:05
from blood loss 90 minutes to 2 hours after sustaining the injuries they also found that she took a volume that night
00:25:13
later Michael Peterson's defense disputed this Theory according to their analysis Kathleen's skull had not been
00:25:21
fractured by the blows nor was she brain damaged which was inconsistent with injuries sustained in a beating death
00:25:28
forensic expert Dr Henry Lee hired by the defense testified that the blood spatter evidence was consistent with an
00:25:36
accidental fall down the stairs police investigators concluded that the injuries were inconsistent with such an
00:25:44
accident we'll get right back to the staircase right after this quick beer [Music]
00:25:56
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[Music] all right cheers mates cheers to all cheers to everybody how about some theories Captain let's get into some
00:28:22
reasons why the prosecution and law enforcement would believe that that Michael Peterson had motive to kill his
00:28:30
wife okay so we have Durham County District Attorney James Harden Jr and the prosecution attacked Peterson's
00:28:39
credibility focusing on his alleged misreporting of his military service and what they described as Michael's secret
00:28:47
life and we will get into that in a bit but first Michael's credibility during a
00:28:53
campaign for mayor michet Michael Peterson claimed he was awarded Ed a silver star a bronze star with Valor and
00:29:01
two purple hearts he had all of these medals but said he did not have the documentation for them he claimed he
00:29:09
received one Purple Heart after being hit by shrapnel when another Soldier stepped on a landmine and the other when
00:29:17
he was shot Peterson later admitted his War injury was not the result of the shrapnel wound in Vietnam but was the
00:29:26
result of a V vehicle accident in Japan where he was stationed after the war as a military policeman okay so he was a
00:29:36
military policeman he's hit by a car or he's in a car accident and then he claims that he got
00:29:44
a purple heart for that but not for that but for something else well when he's running for mayor he claims that he
00:29:51
sustained big time Big Time wounds during the course of War he was inflicted with SH shrapnel and then then
00:29:57
he was also shot which is a much bigger difference than being in a car accident so we have a liar on our hands well not
00:30:04
only that and these are Big lies I mean this is also a guy that wrote three books about the Vietnam War right right
00:30:12
fictitious books I believe but they centered around the Vietnam War well some articles refer to him as a war hero
00:30:21
um I don't know if I would go as far say he's a war zero yeah I mean I mean technically I guess in my mind anybody
00:30:29
that serves overseas serves this great country is some form of hero the problem I have here is he's elevating himself to
00:30:37
a whole different level and he was obviously not deserving of any of that credit that he was willing to take I
00:30:43
mean we have we have men and women that come home to their families in caskets right that receive purple hearts that
00:30:53
receive some of the awards that he is claiming that he earned and he didn't and and like you said a
00:31:00
liar and these are Big lies another motive for Kathleen's murder would be a $1.5 million life insurance policy the
00:31:10
prosecution witness uh Raymond young said that the Petersons were spending about $100,000 a year more than they
00:31:19
made during the each during each of the three years before Kathleen Peterson's death young also testified that when
00:31:27
Kathleen Peterson died the Petersons were carrying more than $142,000 in credit card and credit line
00:31:36
debt spread across 20 active accounts now the defense objected to this unsuccessfully that Young's credit card
00:31:45
information essentially a report of a report amounted to hearsay testimony the defense also complained
00:31:54
that young did not distinguish between different kinds of expenses such as reoccurring bills and discretionary
00:32:01
purchases during his analysis of Peterson's cash flow the defense pointed out that young had counted checks
00:32:10
written to buy stocks as expenses but didn't count the sale of those stocks as quote normal income the defense also
00:32:19
questioned young about why he did not account for the thousands of dollars that flowed through Kathleen Peterson's
00:32:26
accounts when Norton networks her employer reimbursed her for business expenses using Young's own figures of
00:32:34
the coup's assets mortgage liabilities and credit card debt the defense showed that the Petersons had a combined net
00:32:42
worth of more than $1.4 million defense lawyer Thomas Mayer asked as they sat there that December weekend even with
00:32:52
your analysis this couple was worth more than $1.4 million isn't that correct that's right young replied so again the
00:33:00
prosecution is trying to prove that they had some money issues and that would be
00:33:04
the motive because then he could collect the insurance check that kind of backfired on the prosecution so their
00:33:10
next theory for motive is going to be kind of a dark secret yeah this this Theory would be that Kathleen's murder
00:33:19
uh was motivated by the discovery of Michael's Secret Life by Kathleen on the night of the murder
00:33:27
so the prosecutor believed that Kathleen stumbled upon something explosive on the
00:33:33
Peterson's home computer downloaded images of naked men there was two approximately 2,000 of them there were
00:33:42
also Liaisons outside of the marriage a series of email exchanges between Michael Peterson and a local male
00:33:49
prostitute he had found through the internet that Kathleen didn't know about the other man introduced in trial was
00:33:56
Brad from Raleigh so he's said wait 2,000 downloaded naked pictures of dudes correct pornography on his computer
00:34:05
that's a lot of twig and berries well this guy Brad from Raleigh was a 20 year old 26y old excuse me former Soldier and
00:34:14
I think he went by the moniker top Soldier his website pick was a Beefcake pose complete with dog tags according to
00:34:22
the prosecutor by late summer 2001 4 months before Kathleen's death Michael Peterson agreed to get with Brad for sex
00:34:31
at Peterson's home Brad on the stand said we were to hook up I believe on September 5th 2001 the prosecutor asked
00:34:41
and what was the price you quoted him Brad said I believed it was $150 per hour but Brad told the court when the
00:34:50
appointed day came around he was tired and cancelled the prosecutor so you just just simply didn't contact him back at
00:34:59
all Brad stated I don't think I contacted him that night I have found out that I contacted him about 25 days
00:35:07
later to apologize for not showing up prosecutor asked after you contacted him to apologize for not showing up did you
00:35:15
have further communication with him Brad no ma'am Brad testified that he and Peterson had never met until they were
00:35:23
in court together for the prosecutor the brand episode was to show that the marriage was anything but Rock Solid and
00:35:34
the trail of email messages that became the quote trigger that the state talked about I I want to throw out something a
00:35:42
little strange that I I noticed during the documentary one Brad is very Charming on the stand he telling jokes
00:35:51
he's smart yeah and uh and a good-looking guy and at some point Michael Peterson's daughters are are
00:35:59
listening to his testimony and one of the daughters is kind of glowing in the way a girl would be listening to an
00:36:06
attractive guy talk and be Charming you know she's kind of being Smitten by him if that makes any sense and
00:36:13
then and then and then he says something to basically remind the courtroom that he's a gay man and her face like
00:36:22
shrivels up well I I hate to say this but it's durm North Carolina um this is tough for some people in the audience
00:36:32
to identify with let's say let's continue on with with some of the things that Brad said um you mean by that what
00:36:40
do I mean by that I mean exactly what I said it's Durham North Carolina this testimony uh the thought of a bisexual
00:36:48
married man going outside of his marriage is going to be tough for people in that audience to identify with now
00:36:55
the defense was asked was that an unusual occurrence for you to have or plan to have sexual relations
00:37:03
with a with married men right Brad stated to the contrary married men are in the majority of most of the clients
00:37:11
that I saw when I was an escort the defense with regards to the kinds of men that you tended to have escort
00:37:20
relationships with can you give us some indication as to their professions for example Brad answered sure usually they
00:37:29
are professionals because my fees are quite High I saw doctors attorneys and one
00:37:36
judge and then the judge says not this judge right and it was noted it was noted in in the court transcript the
00:37:45
defense then asked did a number of the men the married men that you had sexual relations with have wives that knew they
00:37:54
were bisexual Brad stated I believe most of them did from my experience yeah the
00:38:00
defense asked in your experience was it unusual for a wife married to a bisexual
00:38:06
man to know that he was bisexual Brad's answer was not at all the defense asked was it unusual for a bisexual man using
00:38:17
your services to be in a happy marriage Brad answered not at all most of the men
00:38:22
who would see me would have their time with me and then go back to their happy healthy lives It's Not Unusual to be
00:38:31
loved by anyone the defense asked was there any kind of personal relationship involved between you and Michael
00:38:37
Peterson Brad stated no sir I believe in one of the emails it was very explicit that there would be no emotions involved
00:38:46
no personal relationships involved and it would be strictly physical yeah I mean I think he also stated he loved his
00:38:53
wife and they had a really good marriage you you're you're exactly right right the defense asked did Michael Peterson
00:39:00
ever do or say anything either on the phone or by email to indicate that he was not in love with Kathleen Peterson
00:39:07
Brad answered to the contrary in his emails unlike most of my clients he indicated that he had a great
00:39:14
relationship most clients don't want to say anything about their relationship he
00:39:19
said he had a warm relationship with his wife and nothing would ever destroy that
00:39:24
the defense showed the jur Peterson's own words in an email to Brad which stated I am married very happily married
00:39:34
with a dynamite wife yeah the prosecution alleged that Kathleen would have been infuriated by learning that
00:39:41
her husband was having an extramarital relationship not with another woman but a man right their statement that once
00:39:49
she learned this information that an argument ensued and then a homicide occurred the the defense argued that
00:39:58
Kathleen accepted Michael's bisexuality and that the marriage was very happy a position supported by Michael and
00:40:05
Kathleen's children and other friends and Associates now we do know that Caitlyn so Kaitlyn is technically
00:40:14
Kathleen's daughter from her first marriage yeah Caitlyn stopped supporting Michael Peterson when this information
00:40:21
was deos disclosed so let's jump back to the children shall we M we have children
00:40:27
of Michael Peterson from his first marriage that's Clayton and Todd his two sons and they support him correct and
00:40:35
then we have children of George and Elizabeth Ratliff who are both deceased but were raised by Michael Peterson this
00:40:42
is Margaret and Martha yeah they both support him as well correct then we have the daughter of Kathleen Peterson uh
00:40:52
Caitlyn Atwater she initially proclaimed Michael's innocence in publicly supported him but after learning of
00:40:58
Peterson's bisexuality and after reading her mother's autopsy report she broke off from the rest of the family and this
00:41:07
motive is kind of hard to decide if it could even work as a motive cuz you don't know if his wife knew about his
00:41:15
bisexual yeah I agree Captain for me it kind of like you know I I fancy myself a
00:41:21
pretty open-minded dude and for me it really just kind of put me at the top of def fense you know where I could see one
00:41:28
side and see the other side and mainly practically agree with both sides you know I think what they did here is I
00:41:37
think the prosecution made a strong case that this could be a motive I think the
00:41:42
defense did a good job of stating maybe this is no motive at all right cuz if she knew and she and that was the
00:41:49
arrangement that their marriage had where and even Brad the escort said that he felt that most of his
00:41:56
clients were mainly heterosexual with some homosexual tendencies and so it was just kind of you know maybe a percentage
00:42:07
out well they're 80% uh straight uh 20% gay or whatever it is and and so if that's the arrangement that their
00:42:16
marriage had then who are we to say how they should live their life or or how they should conduct their marriage that
00:42:23
that's on them but the issue here then becomes as far as like the children go did you have any knowledge of this did
00:42:32
you did you even have a thought process that your father was doing this MH so that would be so I can see why the
00:42:41
children are supportive I can see why they would not be and because I also think it if you didn't know and now
00:42:48
they're saying that you're your mom knew but you had no proof well again we have him lying about
00:42:55
his War record now he was not you know not lying but not telling the full truth to his
00:43:02
children about his sexuality so so I don't question that so much because I don't know that I don't
00:43:10
know that if I had children if I would share you know the things that I'm into with them I don't think there's that's a
00:43:17
weird conversation to have this podcast is I I actually what I mean is that they
00:43:24
they might feel like it was another way of being lied to is what I'm saying no I
00:43:30
agree with that but what I'm stating is that I don't find the children not knowing to be weird right you know I I I
00:43:38
don't of course if they knew then obviously I'd be convinced that there was no problem with this thing but if
00:43:45
they didn't know that doesn't to me suggest that there is a problem and actually furthermore you know somebody I
00:43:50
was talking to to said hey so really the sole question regarding the state's case
00:43:55
is did Kathleen know or did she not know and I said well I see what you're saying
00:44:01
there but however it's not necessarily did she know or did she not know it's was she okay with it if she did know
00:44:08
right and they're trying to present a motive the problem with this is especially in a
00:44:14
marriage there could be thousands of different motives that we would never know because there could be hundreds of
00:44:21
conversations that they had in private that nobody even knew about mhm see what I mean so it's like they're just trying
00:44:28
to establish a motive and like you said they do a good job prosecution does of presenting it defense does a great job
00:44:37
of deflecting it and so yeah it kind of puts you on the the center of the post yeah and I think what they did was they
00:44:43
both present their side and then it's left up to the members of the jury to figure out what side they fall to and
00:44:51
what they believe actually occurred one thing though that I do question here is his defense was very good I thought it
00:45:00
was a good team a smart group of people they questioned a lot of things they defended him very well the thing that
00:45:09
that did not happen and I know it doesn't exist because I know that they were smart enough that they would have
00:45:14
presented this at trial was they couldn't prove that Kathleen Peterson knew that Michael was bisexual right
00:45:22
they couldn't prove that Kathleen was okay with it so you know that a conversation took place between the the
00:45:30
head defense attorney and Michael Peterson that there's a sit down in a closed room where he says to Michael
00:45:36
Michael is there anything anywhere any proof that you can show me that Kathleen knew and that she was okay with it or
00:45:44
was there any proof that you can show me that she at least knew that gets us over
00:45:48
one speed bump right and so that didn't exist and when you have Michael Peterson
00:45:54
who talks about this he's a little vague too don't you wouldn't you agree he says
00:46:00
yeah she knew uh did you guys talk about it no it wasn't really something we spoke about but again but this is a this
00:46:07
is a tricky thing because these are conversations behind closed doors and could it be a situation where she's like
00:46:14
okay I understand that I mean they could have been you know they develop into a relationship and he says to her I have
00:46:21
this side of me m that I like to explore and she might have said that's fine with me don't want to hear
00:46:28
about it right you know just as long as you're not being with other women right that could have been the agreement who
00:46:34
knows you know I mean uh and that's I don't know it's it's it's very tricky and again though I stick by what
00:46:43
I said where it's less important that Kathleen knew it's more important that she was either okay with it or not okay
00:46:50
with it well let's start with the idea of should this even been been allowed in the courtroom and I believe the judge
00:46:59
said later that he almost wishes that he would have just said no we can't talk about this and the reason why was cuz he
00:47:07
was afraid you know it's in the South would it be prese prejudicial basically right basically if you bring up that
00:47:16
this guy is is bisexual would there just be one or two people on the jury that would
00:47:21
just find him guilty because he's bisexual right and I think for me if I were the judge or the prosecutor my
00:47:31
argument that it would would it be in the trial and I understand don't send a weird email that
00:47:39
I'm claiming that the judge and prosecutor work together I understand the way the system works but what I mean
00:47:45
by this is it's a part of the state's case right the state's case is that Kathleen Peterson that night stumbled
00:47:53
upon information she found on his computer that suggested that this kind of activity was going on therefore she
00:48:00
confronted him about that that night they got into an argument and he beat her to death that's the state's case
00:48:08
yeah but that's because the other motive wasn't going to stick so well so when they found this I think it was more
00:48:14
about let's make this a part of our motive so we can brain up the fact that he has almost this double life and and I
00:48:23
cuz I do think that shows something if she didn't know about the double life and his kids didn't know about the
00:48:28
double life and it seems like nobody nobody knew about the double life then it's like then what is HE capable of you
00:48:35
don't know because you don't really know the real person I agree with that but what I mean by it goes with the state's
00:48:41
cases if you follow the timeline of events of known events that night not what Michael Peterson says but what
00:48:47
others state right is that Kathleen Peterson was using his computer that night to receive information from from
00:48:55
her work we know that from her coworker who says I overheard Kathleen asking him
00:49:02
for his email address and we have the password being accessing the computer and so the state's case would be this
00:49:11
was a computer that she didn't often use or didn't regularly use maybe used it for the first time who knows and
00:49:17
discovers this information there that night and when confronting Michael about it it turns into uh an argument that
00:49:25
lead s to him killing her yeah I think the other thing too about this is we have some kind of record that he's
00:49:33
trying to use software to clean the computer so what did the prosecution find what did the investigation find on
00:49:41
his computer afterwards and was that supposed to been cleaned off of his computer and
00:49:48
wasn't well there was there was at least all of those pornographic pictures of men were they were they supposed to be
00:49:55
wiped away I don't I don't know what his intent I don't know who we can't say for
00:50:01
certain who who applied that uh computer scrubbing software to the computer we can't say for certain all we can say is
00:50:10
that it was used and so if we can't say who was using it it's tough to gauge the
00:50:17
uh intentions of the user I think the thing here too is that sometimes when people hear the wife finds out that he's
00:50:25
having affairs with men and they start thinking well well why would he kill her because of that it's like well no
00:50:33
because that's going to lead to divorce that could lead to separation that could
00:50:38
lead to I mean he's not making a lot of money or even he just lost it in the Heat of the Moment right and the thing
00:50:46
that I think or embarrassment maybe he didn't want people to know the thing that's interesting here though I I I
00:50:51
differ from you where I think that the the the secret life that the state claims he was hiding from his wife I
00:51:00
think that if we're going to look at the state's case as a cake I look at that to
00:51:06
be the cake and that the money motive would have just been icing on the cake it would have been another another
00:51:13
example another reason why but what's interesting is and I didn't see anybody point this out during the portions of
00:51:21
the trial that I was able to view was the defense I think I would have attacked that as the defense because on
00:51:29
one end you're saying wait one motive is money well then that would be premeditated that would be me sitting
00:51:35
here realizing we have money problems how can I fix it oh I'm going to kill my wife right the other is she finds my gay
00:51:45
pornography that I'm a big huge fan of that I'm I'm I'm enjoying that while she's at work I guess I'm gonna edit
00:51:52
that out of the show and and then she she confronts me we get into some kind of argument and then I kill my wife well
00:52:01
that's two different things that's one's in In the Heat of the Moment I lost it and I killed my wife the other is
00:52:07
premeditated right so can one the the state never builds a bridge to connect the I'm sitting at home planning on how
00:52:16
I'm going to kill her to I lost it erupted one night and killed her yeah and one's with a boner one's without
00:52:23
there you go well that is a good segue into the possible murder weapon um the prosecution said that the murder was
00:52:31
most likely committed with a custommade fireplace poker called a blowpoke it had
00:52:38
been a gift to the Petersons from Kathleen's sister but was missing quote unquote missing from the house at the
00:52:46
time of the murder investigation and Kathleen's sister actually gave a bunch of people in their family these blow
00:52:51
poers yeah I think she gave it to her her parents and to some other people in the family um her sister Candace
00:53:00
Kathleen Peter's sister Candace when asked about the blowpoke said yes it was always in the kitchen stating that she
00:53:07
had used it and had observed Kathleen using it and that it was always located in the kitchen well it's a big house so
00:53:15
we have a kitchen that's connected to a little room and there's a little fireplace by that so anytime you see
00:53:22
like home video footage you'll see a little kitchen and you pan and you'll see a fireplace and it's normally was
00:53:28
sitting there um and you actually see at one point in the documentary one of the
00:53:33
daughters going back through old like Christmas footage to try to find out when the poker disappeared mhm well you
00:53:40
have the prosecution which would tell the jury that you've got to realize he meaning Michael Peterson had several
00:53:48
hours that he could clean up and in the prosecution's opinion they think that that is when when the blowpoke was
00:53:56
removed from the property now the problem with that as the defense would later point out the defense claimed that
00:54:03
the blowpoke was later found inside the home right covered with cobwebs and dead
00:54:08
insects implying that police and everyone else had just simply overlooked it it was not hidden said the defense
00:54:16
because it was never used it was not the murder weapon in the first place forensic test revealed that the blowpoke
00:54:25
had been untouched and un removed I'm sorry unmoved for far too long to have been used in the murder yeah and people
00:54:34
ask well how did they not find this well they had a garage like in the basement M
00:54:40
part of the basement had a garage door and he had some car he was working on and it was kind of hidden in the corner
00:54:47
like not hidden on P purpose but probably what happened was he was messing with the fire one day was
00:54:52
working on his car went downstairs working on his car and put the poker beside it and then because there's other
00:54:59
tools and other pipes and stuff around cops just probably just didn't see it they probably also didn't look that hard
00:55:05
I also think that at least that night and the following day they didn't realize that that would be a potential
00:55:11
murder weapon right you know so even if you saw that night or the next day you don't care because it's not of
00:55:17
significance at that time I actually think that what probably happened is it was an item that went unused up near the
00:55:26
fireplace itself and at some point you know that's where things in the basement in the garage that's how they get there
00:55:32
sometimes there are things that are just not used and you go I'll put it out in the garage I'll put it out in the
00:55:36
basement and like you said things start to pile up and collect around it and then it may appear years later to have
00:55:42
been hidden but rather it's just simply placed there well the pointed poker end was missing and the round end that the
00:55:51
poker would go into was bent and so I wonder if he's working on this old car and he has a old Jack and he's not able
00:55:59
to jack it up with a crowbar if he went and grabbed this poker to use it to jack
00:56:04
up the car that's an interesting thought they they don't really present any of that though at at trial yeah but this
00:56:10
guy the other problem with Michael Peterson look we all like to drink it's a good time the problem is it makes your
00:56:19
memory a little blurry that's interesting you say that I was just going to ask you do you find him to be a
00:56:25
forgetful person or is he conveniently forgetful no I think I mean I just I think he's getting he was getting older
00:56:35
and I think he didn't remember a bunch of stuff like he's like when they find the poker he's even like I don't know I
00:56:42
don't know why I would be there or how I got there and it's like maybe it was from you maybe it was from one of your
00:56:47
kids that's the other here's the other issue here we don't have little kids we have adult kids so they're doing a a lot
00:56:55
of stuff in the you know when you're a kid if there was something if there was a hammer misplaced in the garage and
00:57:01
you're 5 years old it's it's from your father was misplacing the hammer chances are you weren't messing with the hammer
00:57:09
but when you're 20 years old and you're messing with cars and who knows what happen one of them might have used it
00:57:15
then they forget I just think he's also he's getting up there in age and he has some effects from that so I think a
00:57:23
couple of things here regarding his memory first I'm going to go back to the wine drinking I I actually think Michael
00:57:32
Peterson probably like to indulge in quite a bit of wine drinking I think him him saying that they had two bottles of
00:57:39
wine that night might have been conservative I think he might have had two bottles of wine that night and she
00:57:45
helped drink some other bottles of wine with oh yeah but isn't that what you do I mean if you're hanging out with your
00:57:50
wife or you're hanging out with some friends it's like you don't count drinks you just drink and talk have a good time
00:57:55
yeah I mean when you're a kid you count drinks when you're 20 you're going ah I'm up to 10 beers all right when you're
00:58:02
adult you actually go less I've only had six you know you had 10 you know what I
00:58:08
mean that's well I I think the a com a combination of a few things one this guy has seen wartime so there could be some
00:58:16
uh PTSD from that the effects of that in very difficult war time I think as well
00:58:23
is there's probably been history of nights consecutive nights of drinking wine or maybe even a lot of wine or
00:58:31
alcohol and once he puts on those fake Metals he got I mean he they probably weigh him down a little bit and he
00:58:37
probably trips and falls a lot because of it he's getting older so I think a combination of those three things lends
00:58:43
to him being forgetful and maybe not so much conveniently forgetful right the other Vibe too and I have no proof of
00:58:52
this this is just a gut feeling that I got when watching the his children and the way that they spoke about their
00:59:00
household and the family and one thing I do want to point out here is it seemed to be a very close family even though it
00:59:07
was a bit of a patchwork quilt it was a close family to the extent that I hear his children Michael's children
00:59:17
referring to Kathleen as mom over and over again and I also hear her daughter refer to Michael as
00:59:25
Dad yeah so the the two adopted kids they call their mom their real mom their birth mom MH and they call Kathleen
00:59:35
their mom mom yeah they they took away the whole stepmom or whatever right and I think and who knows maybe there was a
00:59:42
conversation about it but you know that that's also them showing respect to her she has uh made them a part of her life
00:59:52
she treated them exactly like daughters were going to treat you just like a mother I think that and also you got
00:59:59
these very well-rounded smart intelligent kids they seem well adjusted oh yeah yeah and they seem well adjusted
01:00:09
and they have all this craziness that's going on with their lives you know what I mean like you would expect them to be
01:00:14
like okay maybe maybe our mom died accidentally maybe our father murdered her we're not for sure you would think
01:00:24
that the hinges you know the hinges would come off and they're not and that's a sign
01:00:30
of how you were raised and how you're raised is not always the lessons that you were
01:00:36
taught it's the actions that you were shown right so meaning and then again every friend every family member says
01:00:46
they had a loving marriage that that means something all right Captain we have so much stuff to get to do we have
01:00:52
enough time you think to get into to some of the blood experts that testified during the trial yes okay so the state's
01:01:00
blood spatter expert told the jury that he was certain Kathleen Peterson was beaten to death because the droplet
01:01:10
patterns of blood and spray on the steps and walls of the stairwell were just what he expected to see if you imagine a
01:01:19
weapon Rising striking Rising casting off blood up the wall with each new blow right and blood found on the inside
01:01:30
lower leg of Michael Peterson shorts confirms his theory he said he saw evidence of an attempt to clean up some
01:01:40
of the blood on the stairwell of course his his testimony was much longer and lengthier than this
01:01:47
that's the team Nick simplified version yeah but it's also he's stating that that she's hit with a blunt object
01:01:56
that's what's creating these marks on Kathleen's head mhm but there is no cast off like if she was hit in the head
01:02:07
there would be a castoff meaning blood is coming from an object there'd be a cast off normally that would hit the
01:02:14
ceiling okay from her height mhm so he he's saying that there was cast off on the wall with each new blow and that he
01:02:24
expected to see um yeah and during his testimony he's going to show you a bunch of experiments he did to try to get
01:02:32
these to recreate these patterns mhm and so it's basically that that she gets hit
01:02:40
one time Kathleen then Falls and then all the rest of the hits would happen while she's on the ground MH making the
01:02:47
spot from the inside of his shorts makes sense right because he would be on top of her um or standing over her and that
01:02:56
would be the reason there'd be no cast off on the ceiling so it's it's almost like he has this picture now he has to
01:03:05
figure out how we got there right right if that makes sense and well in in a way
01:03:12
though the defense is going to have to do the same thing or try to do the same thing right when they put on a celebrity
01:03:19
expert witness Dr Henry Lee now I'm sure most of our listeners are familiar with
01:03:24
Henry Lee he's been in several of the more well-known cases including uh he was involved in the OJ Simpson case now
01:03:33
Lee explained that the blood spatter uh he explained it in a theatrical manner he swigged a small amount of katchup
01:03:42
took a deep breath and then spit it out replicating he said the victim of the Fall coughing up blood staggering about
01:03:51
the stairwell yeah the result Al he says blood spatter up the wall of the staircase and on the inside leg of
01:04:00
Peterson shorts as he tended to her Dr Lee told the jury that the copious blood spatter on the back staircase convinced
01:04:10
him Kathleen Peterson had died of a fall not a beating so if you're trying to forgive me if you're trying to picture
01:04:18
this at home what he's talking about is he's saying she fell and as she's laying
01:04:23
there She's coughing up blood she's breathing blood and that is what is projecting that blood onto the wall
01:04:31
behind her right and they also believe at some point she tried to get up which would explain the blood that's on the
01:04:37
bottom of her feet but also explain like if she did try to get up and she slipped
01:04:42
that her body would have moved so she was more outside of the door her head's still inside the doorway again once she
01:04:51
then continues to cough up blood at that position would account for some of the rest of
01:04:56
the blood splatter yeah to to help the jurors imagine how a woman would fall and end up like this that they're
01:05:04
indicating you know keep in mind Kathleen was in flipflops uh she was medicated with valume she might be tipsy
01:05:11
with having drinking wine that night no no not not might be tipsy I mean one of the things that people really should
01:05:17
look up is the effects of volume the effects of a volume are pretty much the same effects as as far as alcohol is
01:05:25
concerned but once you mix both of them times it by 10 let's say right so one of
01:05:32
the major effects is dizziness loss of balance um and so you're talking about a very odd staircasing I almost argue that
01:05:42
that staircasing should have been made where you just go into a little square room turn to the right and then you go
01:05:50
up the steps so there would be no initial stairs Direct ly in front of you so the stairs basically if you walked
01:05:56
into this into this uh stairwell it's almost like a mini spiral staircase it looks like stair like a closet that
01:06:04
you're walking into almost right and you take a couple of steps and then you turn
01:06:07
to your right and you go up the rest of the stairs and the stairs to your right there's quite a bit more stairs there
01:06:14
than what would be at the bottom straight ahead of you now like the captain pointed out you're right it
01:06:20
would have been a safer situation to just have that be a flat Landing there as if you are walking into a closet turn
01:06:28
to your right and then go directly up the stairs without turning so the other thing too is this would be would you
01:06:36
call this like um you know how they have some older homes they have like servant
01:06:41
quarters and and right that's that's probably what it probably what this is is a second staircase for people to work
01:06:47
behind the scenes of a big house like that it's been referred to as a mansion I I think you could could call it that I
01:06:55
think that's somewhat of an accurate description it's a big house but here here's what's weird though too is
01:07:00
because you have this weird landing at the bottom and you have these steps that actually curve whether you fall by
01:07:07
accident whether you fall by G push whether you fall because you got pulled down whether you fall because you got
01:07:13
hit by something once you're in that area you're on multiple levels that aren't level and so by trying to get up
01:07:22
by trying to move you you are then going to be push if there's any blood you're going to be pushing A lot of blood
01:07:28
around you there's it's very possible that you could make a big mess in this small area because of the the floor not
01:07:36
being level not only that the turn and how narrow this space is on a normal staircase you might not be able to spit
01:07:45
or cough that much blood onto the wall because you would be more centered you would be more away from the wall right
01:07:52
and it's man and when you see the scene the the pictures of the scene you're like it's a lot of blood it's a lot it's
01:07:58
it's enough blood to the point where you're like did he beat her head against the wall for an hour like it I mean the
01:08:05
blood is um it I mean it's traumatic to see it and and I can see how the state and how
01:08:14
the investigators jump to this is a murder this is not an accident there's too much blood here I
01:08:21
mean when you see the initial photos the first thought is this is not an accident
01:08:26
right but then it then it becomes odd too because you you have her feet covered and blood and you just wonder if
01:08:35
she Tred to get up again that does not blood on her feet does not determine whether she was hit pushed or she fell
01:08:44
well and the state is going to try to point out to the jurors that a woman in flipflops medicated with volume had been
01:08:52
drinking all all of this could have been a combination that might have led to a fall and the the body motion expert
01:09:00
showed in an animation that Kathleen climbs the stairs to go to bed she suddenly loses
01:09:07
her balance Falls backwards from the fourth step hitting her head on the molding cutting open a nasty wound to
01:09:15
her scalp yeah which wasn't roughly a vshape and she's stunned she tries to get up but she slips in a puddle of her
01:09:23
own blood falls again and then now she's doomed to lay there and bleed out well we also have impact points on the
01:09:31
molding in the staircase mhm and one of the impact points they basically it's it's science the you know this oh I
01:09:42
don't remember what he was called bio I don't know I can't remember but we're with you Captain but what he did
01:09:49
was they they basically made a model of her her height her weight if she fell at
01:09:56
this point then she would have hit that frame the would hit here right she would
01:10:01
have hit here about this height well we have matching impact points based off the the science they
01:10:09
did M so uh I don't know I mean they tried to discredit this guy I thought he was very
01:10:16
creditable but that I think the problem with this guy is the prosecution should have P pushed more okay okay this is
01:10:24
true if she fell from the third step or the fourth step or whatever but all these things are also true if she got
01:10:32
pulled down at that step correct or pushed down at that step so again I believe I think what he is stating
01:10:42
happened or is most likely what happened okay but I think that doesn't prove if somebody helped her her or not and that
01:10:52
doesn't prove other theories whether those are true or not either we get to those later a couple of things
01:10:58
though here regarding what you just stated was you know I didn't count the stairs the number of steps it's it's 15
01:11:05
to 20 is what I think he says in the 911 call but so let's let's use that as as the general math right let's say it's 15
01:11:14
Steps what what I think you point out here which is interesting is that the prosecution once they hear hey she fell
01:11:21
this guy says she fell from the fourth step and this is how where she hit and this explains her injuries where the
01:11:29
prosecution failed then was they said they could have said well that's one out of 15 Steps mathematically it's less
01:11:37
likely that she fell from that exact step than any of these you know what I mean right she she likely could have
01:11:43
fallen from another step and therefore those impact points don't match up with your theory the other thing that you
01:11:50
pointed out that's interesting is that they never bothered to present the idea that maybe she was pushed down the
01:11:58
stairs right that she was at a different location and pushed down the stairs they
01:12:03
stuck with the she was struck with the blunt object and beat to death and the blunt object let's just cover that real
01:12:10
quick the issue with her being struck with a blunt object is going to be that there is no brain swelling there's no
01:12:17
brain uh there's no fractures to the skull there's no fractures to the skull and there's no um brain brain bruising
01:12:24
either which sometimes you won't get a fracture but you have a brain bruise underneath and none of those three three
01:12:31
things happen so you'd have to basically hit so lightly that you don't cause any fracture yeah so for
01:12:43
those of you that have not seen the staircase or are unfamiliar with this case picture this most people are
01:12:50
familiar with a fire poker that you would have at any normal fireplace okay it's I've never had a hollowed one
01:12:57
though so that's the only that's really the only difference between a blow poke and a fire poker is that it's hollowed
01:13:05
so that when you poke at the fire you can blow adding air that would then spread the Sparks or spread the fire uh
01:13:13
inside your fireplace right it's like stoking the fire um so the only difference here is that this item would
01:13:20
be we can assume that it's lighter than a additional fire poker because it's Hollow right but it still has that
01:13:26
Jagged end that end and what the captain's trying to point out is the thing that I can't get over is if
01:13:34
somebody is attacking somebody with a weapon or an object shaped like that that how in the hell are you going to be
01:13:42
able to strike the skin of the skull with enough Force to create these lacerations and these are Big
01:13:50
gashes but be precise enough or or get I guess lucky enough that in the process of creating those lacerations you didn't
01:14:00
fracture the skull at all it seems inconceivable to me well then right but then everybody believes that she had to
01:14:07
be clawed with something maybe fingernails or maybe she was clawed by um the the poker end right um because
01:14:19
she has these lacerations again they're getting up in age you're your skin becomes thinner it is possible that you
01:14:26
could bump into something hard enough that would not create brain bleed brain bruising or fracture but still puncture
01:14:38
the skin and therefore creating you know a massive amount of blood and basically
01:14:43
the defense is not going to deny that these injuries occurred that these lacerations to her scalp occurred but
01:14:51
they're basically their answer is stating look she had several points of impact where her head would have
01:14:57
impacted with something else and it didn't necessarily tear the skin open some of that is the the skin splitting
01:15:05
hit you know once you hit upon impact that it's a cut as well as the skin splitting that created these strange
01:15:13
shaped lacerations on her her the back of her head right the analogy they were using is if you take like a watermelon
01:15:20
or pretty much any melon and you drop it on the ground it's not going to just break in half it's not going to just
01:15:28
have one point of impact it's going to actually split so is it possible that she hit her head against the frame the
01:15:36
framing of the wall and that caused one split or possibly two splits uh I mean it's it's possible I mean and and that's
01:15:45
what um the one eyewitness that did the bio whatever it was called mhm U test that
01:15:53
that they proved that it was possible some circumstantial evidence Captain the officers uh called by the prosecution
01:16:02
noted that the husband Michael Peterson his sneakers and bloody socks they noted
01:16:07
this and stated that this is odd because Michael was barefoot upon paramedics arrival to the home and they asked the
01:16:15
question how did one of those same sneakers leave a bloody footprint on the backside of his dead wife's sweatpants
01:16:25
the side facing the floor there was testimony from other prosecution witnesses that Peterson had tried to
01:16:33
clean a large stain of blood off of the front of his shorts now some other details on the kitchen counter police
01:16:41
saw a well hold on let's stay with his shorts for a second his shorts were soaked in blood right and so again was
01:16:48
he trying to clean off a section or was he wiping his hands off cuz his hands were covered in blood too mhm so that's
01:16:57
where it gets tricky with some of this stuff it's like there's a lot of blood if he was trying to help her if he
01:17:03
picked her up up and got blood all over his hands then he tried to wipe that on his pants wiping that on your pants is
01:17:10
going to look the same as if you're trying to wipe it off your pants some other details on the kitchen counter
01:17:15
police saw a bottle of wine and two glasses neatly arranged uh implying perhaps the couple had passed
01:17:23
a relaxing evening at home sipping wine together the problem with that cozy image though according to the
01:17:30
prosecution is that his dead wife's fingerprints weren't on either glass the prosecutor argued that Peterson had
01:17:40
prominently set out the bottle and glasses to suggest that Kathleen had too much to drink and had tumbled down the
01:17:47
stairs inebriated the defense presented the idea that the police may have had it
01:17:54
in for the husband once they realized he was the same Michael Peterson taking regular pot shots at them in his newsp
01:18:02
paper column accusing them of only solving a small fraction of crimes and not getting a handle on drug trafficking
01:18:11
in the city and maybe this was payback [Music] time make sure you go to True Crime
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Garage in your life get off the Record join us back here in the garage tomorrow for part two of the staircase until then
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