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[Music] so [Music] [Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening i'm your host nick and with me as always is a man that knows that fortune tellers
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make a killing nowadays here is the captain call me old swamy it's good to be seen it's good to see
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you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] this week we are featuring black tuesday
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you can find a link at our website at truecrimegarage.com and that is enough of the business all
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right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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directly to the killer who may be in this room only a coward would do such a thing
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what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls
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only a cow wouldn't do such a thing don't give up [Music] we will not stop [Music]
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24 hours of course since they were reported missing 13 year olds liberty german abigail williams last seen around one
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o'clock monday afternoon near the monon high bridge that abandoned rail bridge just outside of delphi news
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18's brad oppenheim joins us now live from carroll county where that search continues at this hour brad
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jeff like you said liberty german and abigail williams were last seen yesterday afternoon when they were
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dropped off near that bridge now they had made arrangements to be picked up by family members later that
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afternoon but they never showed up now a staging area has been set up at the delphi fire
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department and since i've been here i've seen hundreds of people come in and out of this staging area
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we are told that volunteers will be sent out in groups where they will comb the area in efforts to find these two girls
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i was able to actually catch up with abigail williams mother anna williams and she says she is amazed by the
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outpouring of support from the community i also spoke with the carroll county sheriff tobe lesenbee and he says they
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are working with officials on getting an amber alert issued just in the last couple hours i have
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been at the staging area i've seen and spoke from volunteers that don't even live in carroll
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county including one man from west lafayette who came over and joined the search
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he said he has a teenage daughter himself and wanted to do what he could to make sure those girls make it home
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safe directly to the killer who may be in this room only a coward would do such a thing
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what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls
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only a cow wouldn't do such a thing don't give up [Music] we will not stop [Music]
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we're here in the garage me and the colonel talking with skip jansen about who he
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believes should be the number one person of interest skip when did you start your
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investigation into the delphi murders that's a good question i've probably been looking into it for
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the last year or so i guess i got into it because i thought it was i was intrigued by the fact that there
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were audio and video of the killer and i thought it was even more unique that one of the victims had was the one
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who had done the video of him so that's how i kind of got started looking into it
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and why do you think so many people on the internet have been fascinated with the delphi murders another good question
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i think probably those reasons as well as i think the small town aspect plays a part in it and i think that uh
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the the fact that you know anytime two children are murdered you know people have a fascination with that
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and for people that don't know delphi has a population of just under 3 000 individuals yeah very
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very low populated area and the unusual thing about it is for a town that has less than 3 000
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people i've i've never seen a case that had this many potential persons of interest yeah on
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the internet there's hundreds of side by sides but law enforcement has stated over and over in different press
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conferences that they believe the killer is local to delphi correct yeah i mean i agree with that if that's
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what you're asking i think the the area that the crime was committed in is is such a remote area
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that the odds of this being someone who is from out of town or a random type murder i think the odds
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are probably a little too long for that yeah i want to echo that but i do want to point out that they have
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what what their exact words are is that we believe that you the person is local someone either from
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delphi living in delphi or someone that works there so not necessarily doesn't have to
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be an actual member of the delphi proper population according to those words and statements
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that have been released by law enforcement but i do agree 100 with you skip and captain
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given the nature of the crime scene and the monon high bridge and the trail system there
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there are people that live in delphi and live in carroll county that i've spoken to
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or heard in interviews state that they didn't even know those trails existed or the bridge existed so
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for some random person to just find that and use that as a the killer used this as a hunting ground whether he
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intended to kill someone there or not he was hunting for prey for a victim or victims that day at that
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location and given what i've seen and reviewed as far as maps go i would like to go there and walk the uh
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terrain myself but given the remoteness of that area and the lay of the land somebody had to have familiarity with
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that location i agree with that i think people get misled a little bit sometimes
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they see they'll look at google maps and and see that one of the roads that the bridge is off of highway 300 which
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is it's just a little small you know country two-lane road i think people think that that's maybe a larger more
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traveled area and it's just not so we have discussed many possible people of interest on the show and with
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arrests like chadwell and so many other arrests throughout the country and people having side by sides
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one thing that's tough with all those individuals are they capable of committing the crimes
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yes but can you put them in delphi the day of the murders but with your person of interest
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you can actually put them at the park the day of the murders yeah that's right he was there he
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admitted he was there he was there he said he was with a female he actually was was the uh one of the witnesses for the
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original sketch that was released some people referred to as old bridge guy uh to answer that
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question yes he's he's the first one that i know of it that was admittedly there
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so your person of interest admits that he was there and also admits that he has talked to law enforcement and he came
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forward and he is the reason for the first sketch that has been released do you know if your person of interest
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was a part of any of the searches that day i don't i don't know that he was part of uh any search
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i just know that he was there around the time of the murders and he was in pretty cl close proximity
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to uh to the area that uh where the girls were found so the girls went missing on
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february 13th but their bodies weren't found until february 14th yeah that's correct around noon on the
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14th so just to add a little clarity here uh in regards to the time frame that we're talking about we're talking about
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february 13 2017 now libby and abby were dropped off approximately 1 45 in the afternoon this is according
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to kelsey who dropped them off at the trail head and the snapchat picture of abby was posted at 207
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pm on that day and it's believed based off of the evidence that we have that being the still picture which comes
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from the video which was then released at a later date the still picture of bridge guy yeah
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correct it due to the positioning of the sun uh what we can see in that video we can
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tell that the abduction took place between 2 20 p.m and 2 40 p.m that afternoon so relatively quickly
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things are moving very fast the girls are dropped off in less than an hour later they are abducted
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less than a half an hour later that picture is posted on snapchat of abby it's kind of mind-boggling how
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we have this perpetrator lurking waiting in the shadows if you will looking for potential prey and it just so happens to
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line up with about the time that they're dropped off and from my understanding skip and you
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can correct me if i'm i'm wrong that it's approximately about a half mile from the trailhead to the
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bridge itself which two girls taking their time maybe they went a roundabout way there's two
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different options to get you to that monin high bridge that time lines up all those times really line up with
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about how long it would take someone on foot to get to that bridge and when you say that this guy
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your guy has admittedly his own words put him place him at the crime scene at about the same time that the
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abduction and murders took place and i don't want to be clear there even though they're
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murdered at that location and left there they were abducted i mean they were they were
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moved and corralled and directed by the killer where to go before we know that because we have
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audio evidence of that correct and we don't know for exactly what reasons but you're saying this guy
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has placed himself there during this time frame and the other thing that's key to hone in on
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at this point too when we're discussing times on that day is according to law enforcement they
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believe whatever took place because again they're not telling us exactly what happened
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whatever took place was done and over with probably relatively quickly but at least
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by 5 pm that day yeah correct because that's what that's the time frame that they say that
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the car was at the cps building at the 2019 press conference they led that off with that that they were
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looking for the driver which i thought was interesting of the vehicle that was parked there from 12 to 5.
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i thought it was unusual they asked for the drive about the driver it seems like
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maybe they know about what the who the vehicle is and that's something that that we can get into a
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little bit but let me say a couple of things that i think are important one thing one thing i've learned is that
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law enforcement and a perpetrator have 180 degree opposite agendas and i'm not talking about just the
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simple fact that law enforcement wants to catch this guy and this guy the perpetrator doesn't
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want to be caught how that relates to this case is and it goes back to what you were
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talking about about the time is law enforcement wants to place somebody there between under that bridge
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near that crime scene between about 2 30 and 3 30 that afternoon okay the perpetrator wants to be
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anywhere else but under that bridge between 2 30 and 3 30. okay and that's something i think that
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that the listeners should keep in mind as we as we go along here because there's been
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a ton of misinformation deflections false information put out as we again as we talk about that you'll see
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some of that maybe people changing their time frames of when they were there who they were
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with where they parked and things like that well it's hard to know because we're not
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from that area we don't know how popular this park is it's a day where there's no
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school how many people do you think are at the park during the time of the murders it's hard
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to say i've i i've identified maybe six or seven i know there's been i know there's been
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people who've said uh they're up to 50 people i don't buy that at all i think there
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were just a few i've identified six or seven so people put the time frame of the
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murders in between 2 30 and let's say 3 30. but we know that because the girls weren't responding and
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somebody was trying to pick them up and this uh miscommunication was would have started about three o'clock
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yeah i think i think libby's dad derek had arrived and started walking the trails around
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three o'clock just after and that was that was about the time they they started realizing you
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know something was wrong derek called libby's phone at 3 11 that afternoon and this is as he was getting close he's
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driving in a vehicle to go pick up the girls there was no set time when they were
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dropped off what time they would be picked up it was a roundabout time right and the the statement was
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or always has been that derek would call libby when he got close so they could meet him at the trailhead
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and we know that that call took place at 3 11. he's unable to get a hold of her she
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doesn't answer the phone he then arrives shortly after that 311 phone call and starts to walk the trails looking
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for the girls i think one of the important things is is is that where he parked is an area called the mirrors lot which
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is the same place that the girls were dropped off it's just a small area private area but
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uh the locals knew it as a place to they had easy access to the trails there's the trailhead like you said
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right there so it's just a short walk to the bridge and it's called the mirrors lot because
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the mirror's family farm is right almost it's right across the street yeah exactly they may have owned portions of
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that additional land at one time right in this area area that you can just get a
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few cars in at one time three or four five maybe max so it's just a small area but the locals knew about it one of the
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importance of this being a small location and like you said it could only fit maybe five
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cars is that your person of interest claims that around three o'clock his car would have
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been parked in that lot that's what time he said he arrived yeah and he said he started walking
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slowly down the trail with a female but we haven't had any other eyewitness come forward and
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say that they saw your person of interest walking with this female we have anybody come forward and say
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that they saw them that's correct well that yeah that's correct not anybody that we
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that has said anything publicly i do believe that that he was seen later on but but no no nobody has
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publicly said they saw him nobody's corroborated that and what's also odd about this one claim that
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your person of interest made is the time frame he would have run into possibly derrick or possibly flannel shirt guy
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at the trailhead around this time period yeah he like i said that when derek got
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there he started on walking on the on the trails he ran into an older man older gentleman
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who's referred to his flannel shirt guy and asked him if if he had seen the girl
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two girls and he said no but there's a couple arguing under the bridge so derek took the other path i guess
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assuming that that was not who he was looking for so so maybe the girls were on the other
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path one thing i've always wondered about here skip is there's actually two bridges right
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there's one that goes over the indiana hoosier highway what's that the freedom bridge
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freedom bridge yes part of me wonders when he gets told by fsg flannel short flannel shirt guy
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can do you have his name in front of you i think he's been identified i think we
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can just say his name yeah his last name is mccain and mccain he was in charge of the
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the trail system there correct so he's involved with the parks and rec or something of that
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nature but so he speaks with mccain and mccain says i i saw a couple arguing under the bridge i think well i
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think you actually said i heard a couple arguing under the bridge and i'm with you it could mean one of
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two things either he goes okay well that's not the people i'm looking for so i'll go this
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opposite way maybe he just assumed the freedom bridge rather than the monan high bridge it's possible that mccain
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was coming from that from that direction so i think the assumption is that he would had just
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been at the brit at the monon high bridge like i said you know he he asked you know about two young girls you know
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somebody describing a couple they heard would not be the same description so so he you know he
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said he said no he hasn't seen him so it you know that part of it i think is fairly
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simple well in this case there's so much information and i think there's some misinformation
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that's being put out by certain people and when you hear about this eyewitness uh mccain that talked with derek
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at the trail head and he says that i heard a arguing couple roughly around 2 50 to
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3 o'clock to me one of the things that people are missing is that would be roughly at the time that
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abby and libby are making contact with bridge guy and we don't have the full audio tapes
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so we don't know and we don't know if those audio tapes have the evidence on there
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was there an argument was there did one of the girls start arguing with bridge guy and if
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that is true then around three o'clock mccain did not hear a arguing couple he heard
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bridge guy arguing with abby and libby yeah i think i think that's likely i think
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you know one of the biggest questions that people have had in this case is you know why didn't anybody hear
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anything you know why didn't the girl scream why didn't anybody hear anything well maybe they did you know maybe
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mccain uh heard something and and but but nobody's put that together like you just said so so your
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person of interest we know that he was there he claims he was eyewitness he claims he's the
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reason for the first sketch that was released he also claims that he enters the same
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parking lot that derek parked in roughly about three o'clock but then other times he has told sources
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and talked on the internet about being a part of the arguing couple which would put him at the crime scene
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at three o'clock correct he also didn't come forward to law enforcement saying that he saw anybody like i mentioned he
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was a witness to one of the witnesses to the first sketch until well after the video had been put out at least a week i
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think that kind of asks the question why if you saw somebody he says he saw somebody
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dress like bg was with a scarf over his face if he saw if he saw somebody like that
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why didn't you come you know and you know two little girls were murdered that day
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why didn't you come forward immediately you know and and he later recanted that uh statement
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yeah i have a couple problems with this person of interest one you're at the park roughly around the
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time that this family is looking for two missing girls there's no witness that says he stayed
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to help so what kind of person are you what kind of canoe are you i think our listeners know what
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i'm getting at but on top of that you're there's this you're claiming that the day
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these girls were murdered and you would have known that the next day that you were at the park the same day
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these girls were murdered and you saw a suspicious person you're not coming forward to law enforcement
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for seven eight days well he originally said he was with his girlfriend okay he later
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changed that to a girl that then he never mentioned her name just uh told uh apparently one of the uh stories
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that was at earth was that he was part of a cheating couple so that was the reason for maybe uh white
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was so ambiguous about who you know who he was with was because he was saying he you know he was trying
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to keep it on the download that he was with another girl well and that's really interesting
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because this person of interest he's coming forward and saying look i'm the i'm the eyewitness
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i saw bridge guy i am the reason for the first sketch that is released we now know that law enforcement is
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saying hey don't that's that sketch is secondary essentially saying well we don't buy this eyewitnesses
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account at one point saying well i was at the parking lot roughly the same time derek
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was there ah but he didn't see me and at some point i was yeah i was with there with my
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girlfriend uh now we know that's not to be true so then he has to then go on and then
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tell people okay look i wasn't there with my girlfriend i was cheating on my girlfriend and so
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therefore you know but i i was covering for that which a lot of times eyewitnesses come forward and they
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lie to law enforcement and lie to the public because they were doing something bad
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that necessarily doesn't make him a murderer but my issue is we don't know who he claims he was
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with under that bridge key phrase there under the bridge which by definition guys down the hill
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under the bridge anything under the bridge becomes a part of the crime scene they found articles of clothing
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around that area under the bridge in the water so we have this individual lying and
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constantly changing his story but what does he do he puts himself at that crime scene and i don't believe
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anybody saw arguing couple they just heard arguing couple arguing couple then equals bridge guy arguing with abby and
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libby equals that's the murderer and he is putting himself in that position that location arguing with somebody
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which we believe would be abby and libby and that puts him at the crime scene that makes him bridge
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[Music] gun [Music] [Music] so we're back talking with skip janus about his person of interest and how
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this person of interest has claimed he was eyewitness he saw bg he's the reason for the first
00:25:39
sketch that was released and that he was there with his girlfriend then changed his story to that he was
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there with somebody he was cheating on his girlfriend with shows you the type of character this individual
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is and on top of that he just constantly keeps changing his story he said he saw bridge
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guy leaving going toward freedom bridge around the same time that flannel shirt guy and derek would
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have been uh talking so they would have had they had been close to each other in
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proximity to each other at the time he said he saw him leaving there he described him as
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like i said with the the clothes that bg was wearing seen in the video and also with a scarf over his face again i can't
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get over the fact that if you're just a normal guy and maybe you don't want to come forward
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right away because you're going to be caught cheating but you can tell law enforcement that and
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they don't have to release that information to the public but you can tell your friends
00:26:39
family and girlfriend hey by the way i was there that day well why were you there oh well i was
00:26:46
taking a lunch break or whatever reason you have to come up with to tell your friends and family but you believe that
00:26:52
you saw this individual and you're waiting seven days to come and talk to law enforcement
00:26:59
it just seems very suspicious it seems very shady it doesn't you know pass the sniff test if you will well
00:27:10
he said that he came forward after the video had been released and said that's the guy i saw that day
00:27:15
yeah so when exactly is this photo or video released after the crime they released the video
00:27:24
i think two or three days after the murders or the photo of the photo taken from the video yeah yeah the still
00:27:31
photo was released a few days afterwards it wasn't until that 2019 press conference that we get the video
00:27:38
right and let's be clear about one thing the younger sketch the second sketch that was released in 2019
00:27:46
was actually created three or four days after the murders that was actually the fir the the others
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the the old bridge guy sketch was done was not released until july of 2017 so it was five months before
00:28:00
the first sketch was released yet they had the sketch of the younger guy three or four days after the murders
00:28:06
so the second sketch that was released they had pretty quickly but for some reason
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this eyewitness comes forward seven or eight days after the murders gives his account
00:28:19
and they go with his sketch at least yeah a week later saying that that was the guy
00:28:26
he came after the uh picture was or the photo was was shown on television he said that's
00:28:33
the guy i saw again i'm just curious why you wouldn't come if you saw a suspicious guy there
00:28:37
close to where two girls were killed why you wouldn't come forward immediately let's pretend that dp is bridge guy for
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a minute okay he's coming forward now because he has an out that that sketch is his out right he doesn't
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want to come forward before like you were getting to that oh i don't want to come
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forward because they can identify me if i was there right and so he he sees the sketch it's not doesn't
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appear to be him to him so dp comes forward and says yep i i would like to second that i saw that
00:29:13
person i was there that day and saw that person there as well i yeah he actually he saw the video he saw
00:29:19
the video or the pic the photo not the sketch i think he became aware of the sketch
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i've spoken with person friend of mine locally whose family has a brother who's in law enforcement
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that i think is is an incredible source and he told me that a lot of local people knew about this
00:29:35
there was a second sketch they didn't know what it looked like obviously earlier but they knew very early on that
00:29:40
there was a second sketch i think i think the time how the timing works is he came after
00:29:45
the second sketch had been created uh hadn't been released yet but the second sketch had been created
00:29:51
and that's when he came forward the second sketch that was actually released is actually the first sketch
00:29:56
that they created correct but how is law enforcement getting that information for the second
00:30:04
sketch that was released from a witness a witness that saw something that needed to be reported that day and skip
00:30:11
correct me if i'm wrong it's been my understanding that the second sketch released
00:30:16
is based off of eyewitness statements description right and the first sketch that was released
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was based off of the still photo then later video evidence uh and it was all well a lot of people believe
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that the law enforcement's uh take on it is that it was it was created by multiple witnesses okay so both the
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sketches are law enforcement says both of the sketches were were created uh based on uh witness
00:30:44
testimony i believe i agree with you though i think that the first sketch was had the the photo and
00:30:50
video had some influence on it and your person of interest which we are calling dp
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i don't know if you guys picked up on the fact that nick called the person of interest dp we're calling
00:31:02
him dp for legal reasons obviously and for safety reasons for himself but he came forward and was telling
00:31:09
people online he was responsible for the first sketch that was released that's correct yeah again i think that's
00:31:16
a little bit unusual that you know law enforcement usually insists that the witnesses don't say
00:31:22
anything in cases like this he certainly injected himself into the case by speaking on social media
00:31:29
kind of getting his story out there but both of his stories put him with another person at the
00:31:35
trails that day right so where's this other person right i mean if i'm law enforcement
00:31:42
that's my first thing i'm going okay dp was there and in story a he's with so and so and in story b
00:31:50
he's with someone else who are these people and do they exist well again i think i
00:31:57
think the reason for the change of the story was that he was with another girl and didn't
00:32:02
want that information getting out i think that was the excuse to get to the second story which was the
00:32:08
the cheating girl yeah i think that that probably raised the red flag of some some sorts you know
00:32:12
but he was he was considered a witness they thought that um you know law enforcement seeks
00:32:17
witnesses they know they need witnesses and this guy came forward voluntarily so
00:32:22
they assumed he was uh city and described something that looked like what they were seeing on video so they
00:32:28
had no reason not to believe him okay so this dp guy's there and he's with this girl that he's cheating on his
00:32:35
girlfriend with i mean that's pretty scumbag anyways but we don't have this other girl that he was cheating on
00:32:44
his girlfriend with coming forward and saying hey i was there with dp and the other
00:32:49
thing about it too is he's saying he was arguing with this girl that he was with
00:32:54
under the bridge again putting himself and putting whoever this girl he was with if there was even a girl
00:33:02
there with him under the bridge again under the bridge you have to understand that under the bridge
00:33:08
or on the other side of the bridge is all a part of the crime scene so he would be saying not only was i
00:33:14
cheating with this girl but she was over at the crime scene with me about the same time that the killer
00:33:21
would have been making contact with abby and libby but yet yet they didn't see anything again he wasn't seen by anybody
00:33:29
except one person a girl named cheyenne ingles and she's the only one there that
00:33:34
has corroborated seeing him do we know where cheyenne says she saw she never said exactly where she saw him
00:33:40
she said that she her story and i'll be kind of frank here i don't i haven't found anything that she said to
00:33:45
be truthful she originally said she got there at 3 50. changed her story to she got there at 2 50. she showed a
00:33:52
picture of uh from the day says that she said she went there to take pictures she shows a picture and it's
00:34:00
taken around three o'clock of the bridge she never said you know she saw what time she saw him
00:34:05
just that she saw a heterosexual couple and also i ran into a friend of hers who she said she didn't know was going
00:34:16
to be there well the biggest point about dp being a person of interest is he was at
00:34:22
the park that day claims to be in the vicinity of the bridge and has changed his story
00:34:28
multiple times now you have cheyenne that is eyewitness to dp being there but she's constantly changing her story
00:34:37
as well it's very very suspicious i think i think there are four i think there are four people
00:34:41
involved in involved in that equation i think dp cheyenne cheryl and a girl named shelby
00:34:48
and i think they that one of them has has something to do with a car that was parked at the cps building
00:34:54
that law enforcement inquired about so who is this shelby she's a friend of uh all they're
00:35:00
all friends um she was i know she went to law enforcement to talk to tell them kind of straighten out the
00:35:08
vehicle situation i think there was a lot of confusion about where everybody parked what time
00:35:12
everybody got there whose cars were there i think she went and told them that you know her
00:35:17
yes her car was there uh and here's how it got there i don't think no i think again nobody
00:35:23
saw her nobody saw dp i don't have any reason to believe she was there because you know there's
00:35:28
no there's nobody corroborating the story that she was there i'm not sure she she ever said she was there
00:35:33
yeah she and cheyenne are friends because they were married to well one was married to uh two brothers
00:35:39
one was married and one was had a child with the other brother so they they were friends that way
00:35:46
but does cheyenne ever say when she saw cheryl she says she says that cheryl got there she's
00:35:51
shane says she got there about 2 50. she said that cheryl got there about 2 30. uh she didn't say exactly what point she
00:35:58
ran into him or ran into her i'm sorry so other than so we're going to exclude shelby because we don't believe that she
00:36:08
was there but other than cheyenne and cheryl do we have anybody we don't know that cheryl was
00:36:15
there either right but do we have anybody at the park seeing dp that day no nobody saw dp except cheyenne
00:36:28
okay but nobody saw cheyenne nobody saw cheryl nobody saw shelby they all they all were there at the park
00:36:35
in the in the same uh time frame that several other people were there including fsg
00:36:42
but nobody saw any of them i think again i think the time that the timeline and the vehicles
00:36:49
are the critical part of the case i think it's likely law enforcement knows or has a particular poi person of
00:36:57
interest and i think that that was probably gathered from those two things the timelines never made sense amongst
00:37:05
any of the witnesses or any of the people that were there and neither has the vehicle situation
00:37:10
so you're telling me that cheyenne says i saw dp at the park but we don't know what time
00:37:16
she's claiming she saw him is she saying that he was with somebody or alone she was saying he was with somebody that
00:37:23
was part of the they were part of the heterosexual couple as how she described it but the person
00:37:29
that she's saying he was with is this person that acts yes that's what makes this person so
00:37:35
interesting to me is because none of the stories line up none of the stories make any sense so if
00:37:43
you're having a hard time following the story well don't blame you because their stories just don't line up but
00:37:50
cheyenne also said that she saw dp's car in which parking lot uh it was parked i
00:37:55
believe at the mirror's lot but there's another eyewitness that disputes this claim yeah there was an eyewitness
00:38:02
that drove by around three o'clock and said that she only saw two cars if all the people who were
00:38:07
there say they were there all the people that say they were there actually were there then there would be
00:38:11
a lot more than two cars because we know fsg was there and possibly parked there
00:38:16
um we know derek was parked there yeah and derrick got there and parked there around
00:38:20
just after three o'clock so and it's not clear even where cheyenne parked right yeah it's and uh
00:38:29
i guess there's there's reason to question that if she was even there that day absolutely there's she as a matter of
00:38:35
fact she says she leaves at four o'clock and if she's leaving she notices a man who she later finds or realizes derek
00:38:45
uh sitting in the parking lot with another person in the in the car doing what looks like
00:38:50
a drug deal well derek wasn't with anybody that day okay tara later came and came but but she didn't arrive till 4
00:39:00
10. so how did she how did cheyenne see see anybody in the car as a matter of fact
00:39:06
when when tara got there she says that derek jumped in the car with her so how did cheyenne see derek doing what
00:39:12
looked like a drug deal at four o'clock it's possible that her her time frame is
00:39:16
just off right but they did she got he got in he got in the other car did she identify
00:39:21
derek as being derrick or just some guy she said originally she changed it later
00:39:26
on to really when she realized it was derek or is that the way she put it she changed she said it was derek
00:39:32
i mean come on people how many times are you going to keep changing your story again again that just goes to part of
00:39:38
the the stories and how they've changed i understand people's recollection but a lot of this seems a lot more than that
00:39:47
than just you know misinterpreting times and things like that she the reason you know she she knew she got
00:39:54
there because at 250 because she remembers a robo call she got and she remembers leaving
00:39:59
at four o'clock because she didn't have good enough uh cell service to upload the picture to
00:40:06
snapchat that she took and she did that about ten minutes before four so she knew her times were right or at
00:40:13
least she said she knew her times were right well this is a small town and i think
00:40:18
some of this information was getting leaked or at least some rumors were happening it sounds to
00:40:23
me like cheyenne is having one story and then once she finds out well no derek was in that area
00:40:30
at that time then she comes back and goes oh it just wasn't some man that i saw it was derek again
00:40:38
we have a eyewitness that is changing his story that puts himself at the scene of the crime roughly around
00:40:45
the time of the murders doesn't come forward right away knows the girls i believe at some point
00:40:53
people said he was following one of them on facebook possibly could have been following them
00:40:59
on snapchat said that he rode the bus with them that they lived you know a couple miles away so he knew
00:41:05
the victims but again their stories keep changing and how suspicious is that then cheyenne says that she sees
00:41:13
dp's car at the other parking lot but it seems like he would have been parked at this
00:41:19
cps building and waiting for the girls i think it's possible yeah kind of i think i think if you if you if you go by
00:41:25
what law enforcement says that the car parked at the cps building could have possibly been there from
00:41:30
as early as 12 o'clock i think uh it seems likely i don't think the 12 i don't think that
00:41:36
the 12 to five i think that's just giving them some leeway but i think they know that uh he
00:41:42
was probably there longer than than what what he said so dp is changing his story constantly cheyenne
00:41:50
is changing her story she is the only one that claims to see his car there we have other credible eyewitnesses that
00:41:58
don't see his car so that's very suspicious why would you be driving somebody else's car
00:42:03
to the park that day maybe because you don't want your car to be seen because maybe you're going to do
00:42:09
something bad possibly again that go that goes back to you know law enforcement saying in the 2019 press conference that
00:42:17
they were looking for the driver of the vehicle that tells that tells me it's likely that it was uh
00:42:24
whoever they were whoever they're trying to find information of was driving a vehicle that wasn't his a borrowed
00:42:29
vehicle but we also believed that there was an eyewitness that would have saw the driver of that vehicle yeah i think
00:42:36
i think that uh yeah obviously there was there was a witness that saw there was a witness that saw somebody
00:42:43
that that that ends up being the second sketch um i think there's a possibility that
00:42:48
that's that which is the same person who saw the car uh as as bg was exiting the park now even though
00:42:58
sketch one and sketch two they're worlds apart but there are some similarities but your person of interest dp
00:43:07
matches both of these which is very concerning and the second sketchup was a release of
00:43:14
the younger individual he matches he matches that sketch more than any other person of interest i've seen
00:43:22
match a sketch now hopefully that gets out to the internet and people can make their
00:43:28
own predictions and own assumptions on that well let me ask you this if like we mentioned earlier
00:43:36
a lot of locals knew that there was a second sketch early on if you'd killed some two people and you
00:43:43
had gotten you had gotten wind that there was another there was a sketch out there
00:43:47
i mean you obviously yeah or no this at this point i'm talking about the sketch being done three or four days later
00:43:53
because he didn't come forward till after that you got you know what i'm saying is
00:43:57
if you killed somebody and you found out law enforcement didn't just have this photo that they released
00:44:03
but they also have a sketch exactly yeah you would think you had been seen right i mean you you know so
00:44:11
that's certainly an incentive to come forward to explain your words explain your whereabouts and why you were there
00:44:16
that day you waited a week to come forward or at least a week why you know why why did you do that first of all and
00:44:23
secondly uh uh is that is that the is that the reason you know law enforcement has
00:44:28
has thought that this person is following the case and getting information you want to know what we know and so uh
00:44:35
i think it's likely that somebody was sharing information with him or he had access to that and uh and
00:44:41
that's why he came forward well and you also after you're doing a lot of your research and you're looking
00:44:46
into dp you notice that a lot of the comments that the police officers are making or
00:44:52
law enforcement is making about their suspect or when they talking to the killer
00:44:57
that it really applies to the research and the misinformation that they got from these
00:45:04
eyewitnesses early on they talked about we believe that we were lied to early on
00:45:09
or that we didn't identify this person correctly and so to have the confidence that he had to go into law
00:45:21
enforcement and say hey look i was there i was an eyewitness i saw bg and i think
00:45:26
the small town of component comes in here because they believed him because they said well
00:45:31
look at him look at his family and look at what they've done in the community this is a kid
00:45:38
that we can trust and i think they bought whatever story he was selling initially
00:45:50
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