00:00:00
On Mind of a Monster, The Hollywood Ripper, uncover the life and crimes of serial killer Michael Gargiulo, who
00:00:06
stalks and kills his neighbors in Los Angeles throughout the 2000s. Across six episodes, hear from friends and
00:00:12
acquaintances of Gargiulo, along with investigators and experts close to the case as they recount what happened, how
00:00:18
he was caught, and where his trial stands today. Listen to Mind of a Monster, The Hollywood Ripper, wherever
00:00:24
you get your podcasts. >> Courage. I learned it from my adoptive mom. >> Hold my hand.
00:00:29
>> You hold my hand. >> Learn about adopting a teen from foster care at adoptuskids.org.
00:00:35
>> You can't imagine the reward. >> Brought to you by AdoptUSKids, the US Department of Health and Human Services,
00:00:40
and the Ad Council. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever
00:01:22
you are, whatever you're doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick, and with me as always is a man who knows
00:01:28
that podcasting is a battle that is won in the trenches. Here is the Captain. >> Podcasting will make your life go into
00:01:35
the trenches. It's good to be seen and good to see you. [music] Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend.
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>> We are still sipping on some fantastic Midwest IPA by the Great Lakes Brewing
00:01:51
Company, one of the OGs of craft brewing. Midwest IPA, it's hoppy, piney, very clean-tasting with a hint of citrus
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ABV 7% garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five. And cheers to our friends for filling up the old
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garage fridge for us. First up, cheers to Katie from Aurora, Ontario. And last but certainly not least, we have a we
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like your jib going out to Jamie Gordon from Fort Gregg Adams, Virginia. Everyone we mentioned, they went to our
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website, clicked on the pint glass, and helped us out. Thank you all. >> Yeah, b w e r u n beer run.
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Make sure you go to truecrimegarage.com and sign up [music] on our mailing list,
00:02:36
and Colonel, that's enough of the business. >> All right, everybody gather around, grab
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a chair, grab a beer, let's talk some true crime. >> [music] [music] >> When we left off yesterday, Captain, we
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were talking about a situation where we have 21-year-old Johnny Clark, and he's staying at his 20-year-old
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girlfriend's home, Lisa Strob. The home technically belongs to Lisa's parents, who are away on a vacation.
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So, not only are they staying there, but as everyone states, they're also house-sitting while the Strobs are gone.
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We left off at the point on our timeline where Johnny's parents have been notified by a woman named Tiffany
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Williams. Tiffany Williams is 24 years old, and she is an air quotes friend of Johnny's and Lisa's.
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And she, through another person, alerted Johnny's parents of a couple of situations that occurred that night.
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One, that she was on the phone with Johnny Clark at about 10:41 that night, and that she had heard what sounded to
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be a disturbance. That Johnny sounded like he was interacting with somebody, didn't know
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what was going on, and it might be a situation. She is then saying that after about 2 hours, she decides to drive out
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to the Straubs home and check on her friends, Johnny and Lisa. And by getting no response at the door
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and getting no response on their cell phones, she now has alerted Johnny's family that she's concerned and she
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thinks that something is wrong. Where we left off yesterday, Johnny's parents are at the location.
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They're on scene. Police have been called twice. Mayte, Johnny's mother, called police
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911 twice and they sent out Lucas County Sheriff's Office on two occasions, back-to-back. Lucas County observes the
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situation, takes a look at the house, they knock on the door, they shine their flashlights.
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They see no probable cause and they have no probable cause to enter the home. Nobody present after receiving
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those calls can give authority for the authorities to go into the home. Now, one thing that's very interesting
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here is that before the police leave the scene, the Sheriff's Office deputies leave the scene for what is now a second
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time, one of the officers pulls Johnny's father, John, to the side and says, "Look, man,
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not being a cop here, father to father, I can't tell you to do anything, but if this were my son and he was
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staying at his girlfriend's home and I'm arriving to the scene, I would wait for the police to leave and
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I would bust into the house to see what's going on." Now, the officer is saying this and and
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the reason why I think that this is important to note here is some people have said, well, I don't understand why
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the police wouldn't just go in. They can't just bust into a home without probable cause.
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It's called the law. Now, the other thing too is they cannot just tell Johnny's parents, yeah, break a window
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and go in. They they cannot witness a crime. They cannot encourage a crime to take
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place. They cannot witness a crime and then do nothing about it. So, this guy is saying man-to-man, father-to-father,
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and here's why I believe that this officer says this. When they all arrive on the scene, here's what we got going
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on, Captain. >> Yeah. >> The Strobs, the parents, Lisa's parents who are gone, they they own three vehicles.
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Okay, two of those vehicles are in the driveway of this home. Nobody's answering the
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door. Johnny's father, John, is quite the strong guy. He's a bit of a bodybuilder, good-sized man.
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So, when the police are on the scene, he actually physically is able to lift up the garage door just enough that one of
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the cops gets his head down there, looks in, and inside the garage they see the other Strob vehicle
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along with Lisa Strob's car inside the garage as well. Johnny does not have his own vehicle at
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this time. So, what's weird is the two youngsters, Johnny and Lisa, who are staying there and house-sitting,
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all their means of transportation are there present at the home. There's no vehicles missing from the home.
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And then you compound that with Tiffany Williams saying earlier at 10:41 p.m., I'm on the phone with Johnny and he's
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saying, "What are you doing, bro? Who are you, bro?" As if that there's some kind of
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commotion at the house. And I'm very thankful that this officer encouraged the Clarks to do something, to take
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matters into their own hand. So, what the Clarks do, they leave when the cops leave, when the sheriff's department
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leaves. They follow them out of the neighborhood. And then the police go one way, and the
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Clarks go another way. They drive around for a bit, just long enough to make sure
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that the sheriff's department is gone from the property, and then they come back.
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The Clarks just don't bust in, break a window, bust into the house. They have a member of their family that
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is there, that is a service member in our in our military, serving this great country, who says, "Look,
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I either I need to leave before you bust into the house, cuz I don't I I can't afford to get into trouble. I have
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I have a rank and a job and everything." Let's Let's give us reason to bust into
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the house. So, they're going around and they're looking in the windows. They can't see
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anything because all of the blinds are closed. Now, around the backside of the home,
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you know those windows, Captain, where you have the the arc at the top? So, it's not your standard rectangle or
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square window. It is on the bottom, but at the top, there's a there's a glass arc, a windowpane.
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This portion of this window in the back of the home, there's no blinds up there. Often, there
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is not when you have that kind of decorative window. But, there are blinds on the lower portion of it.
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So, one cannot see into the home. This is a window that goes to the kitchen. So, what they decide, because there's
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several of the Clark clan there, if you will, they decide to boost one of the lighter
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individuals up. Remember, John Clark is quite the strong man. He's going to lift up one of the
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other family members, who now can look into the home through that windowpane, without the blind on top, or without any
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coverings. This person sees two individuals lying on the floor inside with bags on their heads
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and they appear to be bound. Now, seeing that, witnessing that, will now ignite a new fire.
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And that is a third 911 call from Johnny's mom, Maite, to emergency services. >> Oh my god.
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You need to get the police out to Long Acre Lane. My son is in the basement tied up with his child. I just saw him
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through the window. I The police were out here earlier and did absolutely nothing.
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Both cell phones are on the ground and we can see the people. Him and his girlfriend are tied up in the basement.
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>> Okay. All right, we'll get them out there. >> Get them Get them out here. I told them
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earlier. They didn't listen to >> Ma'am, I need you to calm down. We'll get them out there.
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>> They're unconscious. >> They're unconscious, ma'am? Okay. You said they're unconscious?
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>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. >> Their cell phones are on their bodies. She only has pants on.
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>> Okay. >> And their hands are tied. >> Okay. All right, we'll get them out there, ma'am.
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>> Oh my god. >> Okay. I need you to calm down. We'll get them out there, okay? >> Oh my god, please hurry.
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>> All right, we will. >> Long Acre. >> Okay, I have the address. >> Long Acre Lane.
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>> I have the address. We'll get them out there. >> Goodbye. >> Seems so ridiculous that these
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dispatchers are so concerned about somebody staying calm or not raising their voices at at them.
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But, uh, this obviously will give police probable cause to enter the the property.
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>> Which they're not going to need. Because what happens here is when you hear Mayte on the phone with
00:11:44
the dispatcher and you hear that she's kind of, you know they're tied up. They're unconscious.
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Cell phones on their bodies. He's only got pants on. The pants are tied. >> Right.
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>> The reason why she's saying it and delivering it that way to the dispatcher is because she's not seen any of this
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with her own eyes. Remember they had to lift a family member or some other person that was
00:12:10
there up into the air, hoist them up to see inside of the home. She is relaying what is being told. It
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That scene is being described to her and then she's immediately describing it to
00:12:23
emergency services on the phone. >> Right. >> So, that that will explain her kind of
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odd delivery because this is news to her as she's telling emergency services. Meanwhile, while she's on the phone
00:12:36
trying to get the police back out there and ambulance now John after he hears what's going on inside
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the house, he sprints around to the front of the home and with a single kick damn near kicks down the front door of
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this house. He runs inside to the kitchen area. Now, remember we hear Mayte saying that
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they're in the basement. She She doesn't know exactly what room that they're looking into.
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They've never the the Clarks Johnny's parents have never been inside this home before.
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And so, John, the father, runs in. He finds two persons' bodies lying in the kitchen.
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And he rips the bag instinctively and rightfully so, rips the bag off of one of the individuals.
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And unfortunately, it is his son who is still unconscious, unresponsive. And then he rips the bag off of
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what would be clear to him is Alyssa's head. >> Right. >> And gets the same result.
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And he then says that he he went to go outside, that he needed to get out of there.
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He gets out, he goes outside, and on his way out, or once he's outside, right now
00:14:02
things are moving very quickly and the parents are are completely in shock. So, their statements, it's a little
00:14:09
unclear how these things panned out or played out, and it's not really important in my opinion.
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But what we do know is at some point he he runs outside and he says he just loses his mind. He doesn't he
00:14:22
doesn't even know what reality is for a while. And he says that at some point, either on his way out of the home or on
00:14:30
or once outside of the home, he tells his wife what it is that he witnessed. Maybe he says something like Johnny's
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gone or Johnny's dead, to which she then faints. >> Right. >> So, that's what takes place shortly like
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immediately after this 911 call. >> And so, what we have at this scene is we have we now know it's Johnny, we know
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it's Lisa. It seems like they were bound. And then their plastic bags were placed over their
00:15:00
heads. But do we have anybody seeing do we see any type of blood or what else are we seeing at this scene?
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>> Well, we'll go through we'll go through the evidence and through the what they
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were able to witness at the crime scene. But one thing we need to point out here, too
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is that Did we play the second call? >> No. >> What was that? >> No. >> So after Myte's call
00:15:35
Tiffany Williams who's still at the scene, she then calls and makes a very brief call to 911 and she's stating very
00:15:43
much of the same that was just stated by Myte Clark. >> Right. >> So she has a very brief conversation
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with the dispatcher and at this point the the police emergency services are already en route.
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>> And it's surprising that Tiffany hasn't left at this point because at some point
00:16:02
there's kind of accusations coming her way as far as like why did it take you so
00:16:08
long to react to them not answering their phones and then you know, they're at the crime
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they're at the scene trying to figure out what's going on and then you have Johnny's mom saying, "Hey, are you
00:16:25
involved in this? Did you set my son up with something?" >> And just so everybody can follow along
00:16:33
with our timeline here, the report I have Captain states that that third and final 911 call for Myte comes in at
00:16:42
approximately 3:50 a.m. >> So obviously the whole family is in a state of shock.
00:16:52
It's hysteria. Then law enforcement comes back onto the scene and obviously now they're able to enter the property.
00:17:02
>> Yeah, and we've reviewed a lot of cases where emergency services have have told
00:17:06
us that if if they can get to a scene and someone has for a lack of better term expired 15, 20, 30 minutes prior to
00:17:16
their arrival, that they've they've witnessed and been a part of situations where they are able to actually save
00:17:23
that person's life, bring them back. And I'm including that because it's important to our timeline to narrow down
00:17:31
the time of death for our victims here. Now, what we have here, Captain, is John Gains, as we said, John Gains entry
00:17:41
to the home. He discovers Lisa and John that are they're both bound at the hands
00:17:46
and neck with plastic bags over their heads. He instinctively rips the bag off of his son's head to expose his face,
00:17:55
but gets no response. John then moves to Lisa and does the same only to get the same sad outcome. She too is not
00:18:01
responding. Deputies from the Lucas County Sheriff's Office respond to the scene yet again, this time along with
00:18:08
firemen shortly behind them who will perform life-saving efforts, but tragically this is to no avail. The two
00:18:17
youngsters have been out for far too long and they are officially gone at this point in our timeline. Sources
00:18:24
report that when the bodies were discovered, that Johnny's head was facing west with his hands and feet bound with black
00:18:33
duct tape. And the same black duct tape was used to seal the bag at his neck. Lisa was found facing east. Her hands
00:18:44
were bound behind her back with duct tape with the same similar bag as uh what was found on Johnny. And the
00:18:53
same duct tape tightly wrapped around her neck as well. Now, one difference between the two
00:19:00
victims here is her legs were not bound. So, when you hear in the 911 call from Mayte saying he he's only wearing
00:19:10
pants and the pants are tied. What she's trying to say is that his legs are bound. Like, they used the
00:19:18
tape to bind up his him at the ankles. >> Right. >> And so, he's wearing sweatpants, so this
00:19:24
black duct tape would have been obvious to them even from outside looking from perched above that that arc
00:19:32
pane window window pane. And Lisa is not bound at the legs. Now, she did say that you know, he's only
00:19:41
wearing pants. Well, they have an obstructed view, and the crime scene the reason why there's an obstructed
00:19:49
view is because they're found in the kitchen. And from their vantage point, some items that will be in the way will
00:19:55
be the kitchen table, as well as some of the table the table and chairs, okay? So,
00:20:02
what they cannot see is actually both of them are fully clothed. Both of the victims are fully clothed. However, the
00:20:10
their shirts are bunched up toward the top of their bodies. And so, it appeared that he has no shirt
00:20:19
on from looking outside looking in. Now, as said, both their shirts appear to have ridden up to expose their stomachs.
00:20:30
But investigators noted that this did not seem to be in any way or any form of sexual
00:20:37
assault or any type of sexual way, but rather because as it would appear to investigators,
00:20:44
both victims were moved after having been bound. So, they were dragged. And the victims' shirts then bunched up
00:20:54
to their chests. >> Right. >> As a likely result of someone or very likely, especially in Johnny's case,
00:21:02
someone's dragging the victims across the floor to stage them or place them in the kitchen.
00:21:08
And I say someone's because look, I get it. You're dragging someone and that that takes away some of the weight here.
00:21:15
But Johnny's 5' 11. 205 lbs. So, he's not a small boy. Um it probably I I would I would wager
00:21:24
Franklin, Captain, it took two to move him. So, I think we're looking for at minimum two perpetrators in this
00:21:32
horrific horrific crime. >> Brian, like you said, we don't have evidence of sexual assault.
00:21:40
But do we we were told earlier that the house looked like it was ransacked. Do we have evidence that
00:21:47
the motive the motive might might have been a burglary here? >> You're spot on here, Captain, because
00:21:55
still to this day this this horrible crime takes place very early 2011. We're sitting here in the garage
00:22:05
2023 and it's unclear to this day what exactly the motive was. Now as we get through this, I think that our
00:22:18
listeners will see and maybe share the same opinion that we have that there might be more than one
00:22:24
motive at play here. Now, especially if we are to consider that we may have more
00:22:30
than one perpetrator. So some more details from the crime scene. An empty wallet is placed on Johnny's
00:22:38
bare stomach. This would turn out to be his wallet. Some have suggested that the
00:22:42
wallet left in this manner by the killer was as if to send a message. Both victims displayed signs of
00:22:50
petechiae on their faces. It was very clear to Lucas County Sheriff's investigators that a struggle
00:22:56
had taken place. Now, listen to this level of damage inside here, Captain. Level of damage inside the Strob home,
00:23:03
per the police reports, there was broken drywall, a clock torn off the wall, a plant
00:23:11
knocked over, and then there were many many to say many items were scattered about is to put it
00:23:17
very conservatively. >> Right. >> It also became increasingly clear to authorities that the garage
00:23:25
was the most likely must have been the point of access for the intruder or intruders to get inside
00:23:32
of the home. And here's why. There was damage to the interior service door, or as long time listeners of this
00:23:41
show know that I like to call it the man door. Meaning, this is the door that the
00:23:45
people walk through, not the door that the cars go through. >> Right. >> So, there there's signs of forcible
00:23:53
entry into the home, and they're getting that from the man door, from garage to the inside of the home.
00:24:01
They're not getting that from the garage door. The garage was closed when police first
00:24:08
arrived on the scene. The garage was closed when Johnny's family's on the scene. Remember, dad had to lift up the
00:24:15
garage door, the car door, so that the deputy could look inside and see that there were two more cars inside the
00:24:24
garage. So, this is indicative that whoever decided to bust into the home or intrude into the home,
00:24:37
the garage door was either open for them to receive them or was already open when
00:24:43
they approached the home. They only had to bust into the man door. And they were so kind enough to close
00:24:52
the garage door before leaving the property. >> [music] >> On Mind of a Monster, The Hollywood
00:25:11
Ripper, uncover the life and crimes of serial killer Michael Gargiulo, who stalks and kills his neighbors in Los
00:25:17
Angeles throughout the 2000s. Across six episodes, hear from friends and acquaintances of Gargiulo, along with
00:25:23
investigators and experts close to the case as they recount what happened, how he was caught, and where his trial
00:25:29
stands today. Listen to Mind of a Monster, The Hollywood Ripper, wherever you get your podcasts.
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Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council. >> [music] >> All right. Cheers, mates.
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Cheers to you, Colonel. Onward and upward. >> Yeah, thank you, Captain. Now, this is
00:29:41
very likely protocol for a double homicide in most jurisdictions in the state of Ohio. I'm not certain about
00:29:48
this jurisdiction in particular, so this is either protocol or simply the investigators realizing that they need
00:29:54
additional expertise for this case and this crime scene that appears to have a lot going on.
00:30:03
Lucas County Sheriff's Office detectives, they rather quickly contact the Ohio Bureau of Criminal
00:30:09
Identification and Investigation, or BCI for short, for their assistance in this
00:30:15
case. So, now we have BCI there to assist in processing this crime scene. As observed by the Lucas County
00:30:24
Sheriff's Office when BCI had arrived, we we get Special Agent Supervisor Ed Bierstad,
00:30:32
who notices that the crime scene does not only show signs of force or forcible entry,
00:30:38
signs of obvious struggle, but now this officer is saying we need to include that this house
00:30:47
appears to have been ransacked. And I mean, let's say very ransacked because I've seen the pictures. Very ransacked
00:30:55
if we were to try to discuss levels of ransacking. >> Yeah, we'll try to post as many photos
00:31:03
about this case and the people involved, obviously. And And those are you can always find
00:31:10
those on our social media. >> So we have To put it short and sweet, we have cabinets that have been opened,
00:31:17
drawers pulled out as if as if someone's searching for something. Now, in the master bedroom, the mattress
00:31:24
was pulled completely off of the box spring uh as if to reveal anything potentially
00:31:29
hidden under the mattress. In the walk-in closet, we have clothing that is you know, torn from the hangers and
00:31:38
thrown all over the floor. >> But But question for you because sometimes when we have
00:31:44
uh house that quote-unquote looks ransacked, is it staged to look that way? To To throw law enforcement off of
00:31:55
what the possible motive of this crime would be. >> Yeah, and we have a a dresser that's
00:31:59
overturned, a panel leading to the attic space is is open. And as said, there's damage to the drywall.
00:32:07
Uh significant damage in areas of the home to the drywall. And this is one could be both
00:32:14
clear sign of a struggle, usually it is. But we usually cover cases where there's
00:32:20
not this level of ransacking going on inside the home. And so I want to point out something
00:32:25
here, too, that the destruction to some of the drywall could be happenstance from a struggle.
00:32:32
Look, Johnny was a tough kid. If with with these intruders, he's not going to just allow them to
00:32:41
just walk into the home. He's going to put up a fight. So, there's our struggle.
00:32:49
But on top of that, with all this ransacking, keep in mind, some of this damage to the drywall may
00:32:55
be part more part of the ransacking than just that struggle. >> It also makes you wonder because, like
00:33:02
you said, we have we have two victims. So, do we have two perpetrators or do we have
00:33:08
even more than two? >> We also find out that Lisa's purse had been emptied and Johnny's wallet was
00:33:14
empty as well. Strangely, however, there was jewelry that was in plain sight. And some have stated that this was
00:33:21
overlooked, but I I don't think that it was overlooked because it One description we get is
00:33:28
that a jewelry box was opened to expose the jewelry. And for whatever reason, they decided not to take any thing that
00:33:35
they saw there. We also end up learning that something that was in the home prior to the homicides and remained
00:33:44
there afterward was six envelopes containing foreign currency. >> Right. >> So, whoever is responsible,
00:33:57
they take Lisa's money, Johnny's money, if he had any, but they pass up the jewelry. They pass
00:34:06
up other valuables inside the home, TVs, computers, things of that nature, and they pass up the foreign currency as
00:34:16
well. >> Were they able to talk to Lisa's parents and was there any idea of maybe a special item that
00:34:24
these individuals might have known that they had that they were looking for? Because also, like
00:34:30
you can't discount a robbery if there are things missing. But like for example, you see foreign
00:34:38
currency a criminal might go what am I going to do with that? I'm going to have to try to find a way
00:34:46
to exchange that into our currency. >> Mhm. >> Or they see jewelry. What am I going to
00:34:53
do with that? >> Right. >> Where's the value there for me? >> Right. And And look
00:35:00
you can sell those items. But now involving another person you're putting yourself at a higher risk
00:35:07
level of getting caught, getting apprehended. And so when I see a scene like this
00:35:16
>> It's confusing though, right? >> It's It's confusing and you're right to point out. It was it made to be
00:35:21
confusing? Was there staging here? You know, it's not uncommon husband kills wife or wife kills husband out in
00:35:30
their home and they ransack the place or or make it look to be ransacked. Now what's What's interesting though is
00:35:40
detectives and cops are pretty good at seeing a scene and knowing when somebody is doing something
00:35:48
just to do it or when somebody's doing something that they've done before. You know, they can look at a scene
00:35:56
at times and go, you know what? This looks like whoever was air quotes ransacking the house
00:36:02
didn't really know what they were doing. Almost like they were doing it purposely
00:36:07
to confuse the scene. >> Right. >> That doesn't seem to be the case here. We never get any investigator saying
00:36:14
like we think that this was a staged scene. This place looked like you you let loose
00:36:20
a pack of wolverines inside the house and they tore it all up. >> Yeah. But also because of
00:36:28
things that you mentioned like the mattress being turned over or that I think you were saying like the
00:36:34
attic entrance. >> Mhm. >> To me that goes again was there something that these people
00:36:41
thought was at this property that they were trying to find and wouldn't we know this
00:36:47
information from Lisa's parents? >> Every closet that had a door in that home, the door was found open as if
00:36:55
somebody went through the home looking in every nook and cranny for something. And this is where things start to get
00:37:03
really weird. Because the first people that you're going to talk to are family and friends
00:37:09
of the two victims. And one thing that they start to find within some of those circles
00:37:15
is this thought or some kind of rumor that there was potentially a safe in the home containing
00:37:25
large amounts of cash. >> Right. >> Now, we have the Strobs who thankfully can tell us
00:37:35
a couple things. And Captain, you know it, what's one of my favorite things to discuss in these cases because it is
00:37:42
often most times the most important detail of these crime scenes. Transference of evidence.
00:37:50
The intruder, the killer, the perpetrator will almost always leave something at the crime scene knowingly
00:37:57
or unknowingly that could lead you back to him or her. And almost always will take something
00:38:04
with them knowingly or unknowingly >> Right. >> that you can link perpetrator to crime.
00:38:11
So, in this situation the Strobs tell us a couple things. One, we do not own a safe.
00:38:17
Two, we don't keep large amounts of cash in our home. In fact, they tell the police
00:38:24
the only money that would have been in the home aside from some change jars would have been $40 or $45 that they
00:38:33
left for Johnny and Lisa to order pizza one night or two nights. That's the only money that they said
00:38:43
that they had in the home. Now, transfers of evidence goes the other way, too. So, what do we have missing from the
00:38:51
scene? We have that $40, $45 if if Johnny and Lisa didn't spend it prior. >> Right.
00:38:58
>> We have Lisa's money, okay? Keep in mind, what did she work that night? We know she worked as a server at the
00:39:04
restaurant that night. Usually they walk away cash in hand. And so, we can assume we can make the
00:39:12
logical assumption that whatever money she took home with her from her work that night was taken.
00:39:18
And then we know Johnny's wallet was found empty. So, whatever money he may have had,
00:39:24
>> that was gone. >> That was gone as well. >> But there's a possibility if that if
00:39:30
law enforcement saying, "Hey, it looks like these guys were looking for possibly a
00:39:35
safe, that it's possible that they're at the wrong residence." >> Oh, it's most certainly possible. I
00:39:44
mean, when I hear this thought that there's a safe in the home and it could be a a huge mistake.
00:39:54
You know, you instantly think of In Cold Blood. Who was that? The Clutter family
00:39:59
that's killed because these two criminals in while they're in prison, they hear this bad rumor that
00:40:07
that the family had a um safe with $10,000 cash in it decades and decades ago when $10,000 was a whole heck of a a
00:40:15
money, much more than it is today. And they go in, they kill the whole family, no safe.
00:40:20
>> Right. >> We covered the Cheshire murders. Now, those two horrible monsters, subhumans,
00:40:30
they claim that they believed because it was a rich, wealthy neighborhood that they were they believed that they
00:40:37
would find a lot of money inside the home and that maybe even a safe and a lot of valuables. They don't find that.
00:40:45
People don't live that way today. Most people walk around with cards. >> Right. >> Plastic.
00:40:50
And the I and I said it and I made my point very clear on the Cheshire murders when
00:40:55
we covered I believe that Carmen Segarra Sky and those perpetrators I think that
00:41:00
that that rape and murder was as much if not more of a driving factor to them than the potential of finding
00:41:09
large sums of money. >> Well, no. And and also sometimes people are house poor. You know, where they
00:41:16
they have a big house and all their finances go to paying for that house. They don't have extras.
00:41:23
>> Unfortunately, I'm garage poor. >> Me, too. But your garage is a little bigger than
00:41:28
mine. >> We got a couple of other things going on at the scene though, Captain, that we
00:41:31
need to get to. We have two knives that are missing from the the block that would be in the kitchen.
00:41:38
>> Right. >> And we know that duct tape was found on our victims. Lisa's parents tell police we
00:41:45
didn't have any black duct tape in our home. And so now we know that the killers did
00:41:54
bring something with them. >> Right. >> And beyond the money, just the cash, they took something with them as well.
00:42:01
Now, the bags a little more difficult. I think these are pretty common bags and I
00:42:07
believe that the Strabbs said that they they were of the belief that the bags would have been found in either in the
00:42:13
garage or somewhere in their home. So now we got to deal with this duct tape. And that's really interesting here. So
00:42:24
what we have, let's talk about these items. Did not have any duct tape present at
00:42:29
the home according to the Strobs. So it must have been brought with them to the scene. Now some have said that this may
00:42:35
imply premeditation. Yes, of course. Yeah. But premeditation of what? Murder, robbery, torture?
00:42:45
I think it's too early in our investigation to conclude premeditation of what. Now one of the investigators collects a
00:42:52
Newport cigarette butt found in the hallway by the door to the garage that lead the main door leading to the
00:42:59
garage. >> Nobody in the family is a smoker. >> Nobody in the family is a smoker and
00:43:05
then on top of that yeah, according to Tiffany Williams, they were going to come over and hang out at the house and
00:43:11
and you know, not really a party according to Tiffany Williams, four people just hanging out at the house.
00:43:16
There weren't the Strobs had a strict rule against that, but they also had a strict rule
00:43:20
against smoking in the home. Nobody was permitted to smoke in the home. And as we just covered
00:43:27
there's no smoker that lives there. So this Newport cigarette butt is going to become just as important as the duct
00:43:34
tape that was found on our victims. >> Well, because like you said, there's so much
00:43:39
forensic king that you have to now you're going to be testing for finger prints and you're going to be
00:43:45
testing for DNA. But some evidence that we're going to have to go through it, you know, as far as law enforcement
00:43:54
is going to have to go through at the scene is what happened to these two victims.
00:43:59
We know that they were bound and we know that there was bags placed on their head. We know they're dead, but how did
00:44:06
they die? >> Yeah, so the petechiae is going to be one of the telltale signs of what may have happened
00:44:15
to them. And I say may have happened to them because when once we get the medical examiner's
00:44:20
report, it's a little inconclusive. So, it's both deaths ruled a homicide, no doubt
00:44:26
about that. What becomes a problem, and not a major one, but something that is undetermined is
00:44:35
that they can could not tell if they died from asphyxia from the bag being placed
00:44:43
over their heads or from the tightness of the duct tape around their necks. So, maybe it may been a combination of
00:44:51
both. To put it short and and not sweet at all, they died of lack lack of oxygen.
00:44:59
Both of them. And one thing that is unique about this case, and I think it's usually important, not always, but I I
00:45:10
think here, given the crime scene and what we're seeing at the crime scene, and some things that we've hinted on
00:45:16
already here, Captain, is there was some concern to try to determine who died first.
00:45:24
And they were not able to conclusively figure that part out. Now, what the crime Here's what the crime scene is
00:45:32
telling the experts. That some kind of struggle with Johnny went down either outside, just inside of, or at
00:45:44
that man door. >> Right. >> The service door leading from the garage to the home. So, signs of a struggle
00:45:51
there, and they they believe that struggle took place between Johnny and the intruders. That's how the
00:45:57
intruders gained entry into the home. Now, unfortunately, Now, look, none of these cases are easy
00:46:04
to talk about. None of the details are easy to talk about. But, what the crime scene indicators are
00:46:10
telling the investigators is that when this is happening, when the commotion is heard by Lisa, she
00:46:19
tries to run and hide. So, she runs upstairs to the upper level to her room, closes and locks the door behind her,
00:46:30
and it's believed that she attempted to hide underneath her bed. The intruders go up the stairs,
00:46:39
kick in her door, >> Mhm. >> and drag her from out underneath of that bed. Unfortunately,
00:46:48
a couple of things could have happened differently that that may have saved at least Lisa.
00:46:55
Had she fled out a another exterior door, rather than flee to her her room. >> Yeah.
00:47:03
>> Um there was a fire escape upstairs that she could have potentially gone out of.
00:47:09
And her cell phone, unfortunately, was found was believed to be in another part of the home. So, she flees up to her
00:47:16
room with no chance of calling anybody for help while she's in there. Now, look, we
00:47:24
>> This case sucks. >> mean to scare anybody, but we do get these false senses of security, right?
00:47:30
Like we we close our bedroom doors at night because we're told as children that if there were to be a fire that you
00:47:35
can you can check the touch the doorknob and see if it's hot. It will prevent smoke from coming large amounts of smoke
00:47:42
from coming into your room. Lock the lock the door so that you have one more barrier between you and a
00:47:49
and an intruder into your home. Those doors, those bed our bedroom doors, they're not strong.
00:47:55
They're Rarely are they even solid doors. They're usually hollow doors. >> Speak for yourself. Mine are solid
00:48:01
doors. >> In most cases, Captain, they are hollow doors that are easily easy to kick in,
00:48:07
number one. >> Exactly. Or I mean, I've seen I've seen people punch right through them. Forget
00:48:13
about kicking through one or using your body to throw into the door. She did She went into flight mode.
00:48:24
She's 20 >> years old, man. She's a little kid. She's a kid. >> She She did what a kid would do. You see
00:48:30
You see something that you don't understand that scares the hell out of you, and she she attempted to run and
00:48:35
hide from it. >> Yeah, there's a if I'm law enforcement, that the call that the friend hears Johnny say, "Bro,
00:48:45
what are you doing?" To me, that points to one individual, but we we again, we don't know. Did he see one individual
00:48:52
and then the next individual made themselves known after that after the disconnection of that call.
00:48:59
But because there's two victims, and like you said, I mean, Johnny's not a small guy, and you have to move that
00:49:06
individual, the amount of ransacking in the house, this again, it points to at least two.
00:49:14
>> Mhm. >> You know, I I don't think if you're law enforcement, you can rule out the
00:49:18
possibility that there's even more than that. Uh because you have to then bound the these individuals, and that would be
00:49:28
very difficult, and we don't have any evidence if the intruder had a gun or not.
00:49:36
So, again, sometimes you can control multiple victims by yourself if you use a gun or
00:49:46
you use a weapon or there's some other threat, but in this case, it just seems like
00:49:53
it's brute force. That's what was used to control these victims. >> You're exactly right that you don't have
00:50:02
any proof that that the intruder or intruders did not have a firearm, but what you do have is you have proof
00:50:08
You have things suggestive at the crime scene that they did not, right? They They did not use a firearm to kill the
00:50:14
victims. There's no bullets that are found. There's no bullet holes that are found.
00:50:19
There's no loud gunshots that are heard by anybody in the neighborhood. And then
00:50:23
you have these clear and obvious signs of a struggle. One at that man door, which is Johnny fighting off whoever's
00:50:30
coming in, and also somebody busting through Lisa's bedroom door and dragging her down the stairs.
00:50:36
And so, those Those struggles are indicative that one, you're not able to control them
00:50:44
with the firearm. You have to use, as you said, brute force. And then on top of that, the premeditation, right? We
00:50:50
don't know what it is premeditative of, but binding that that knowledge of going
00:50:55
of knowing in advance, you know what? We should probably bring some duct tape with us
00:51:01
because we're probably going to have to bind one or two of these individuals at some point.
00:51:06
>> Well, I bet and I would bet money that they if they brought the duct tape that
00:51:09
they brought the bags with them as well. >> One thing that That's I think that's fair to say that,
00:51:17
but keep in mind we have the Strobs saying they believe the the bags came from somewhere in the home.
00:51:22
And they would know better than us. But, here's the thing, Captain. One thing that that is going on immediately
00:51:30
early on in this investigation, and one thing that police will continue to struggle with throughout the course of
00:51:37
this investigation, is the Tiffany Williams telling them that Johnny's saying, "Bro, what are you
00:51:45
doing, bro? Who the hell are you? And they are trying to decipher what they are hearing second hand through
00:51:52
Tiffany Williams. Does anything that that Johnny is saying in that moment, does that tell them that
00:52:00
he can that he knows who this person is or knows the people or one of the people
00:52:05
that are attempting to invade the home? Or does he not know them? And Tiffany Williams and law enforcement
00:52:15
will have changing and differing opinions at times in this investigation about that matter. But the other thing
00:52:23
we also need to consider, again, unfortunately, Johnny's not here to tell us his side of that conversation, of
00:52:33
that short phone call that took place at 10:41 p.m. that night. We only have Tiffany Williams to tell us what she
00:52:40
says that Johnny said on the phone. >> [music] >> So much [music] more to get to in this
00:52:54
case. You're going to have to join us back here in the garage next week. But until then, Colonel, do we have any
00:53:00
recommended reading for the beautiful listeners? >> This week, Captain, no surprise here. We
00:53:05
are recommending Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community by the great Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. In 1967, Dr.
00:53:14
Martin Luther King Jr. isolated himself from the demands of the civil rights movement. He rented a house in Jamaica
00:53:21
with no telephone and labored over his final manuscript. Here he lays out his thoughts, plans, and dreams for
00:53:29
America's future with a universal message of hope that continues to resonate. King demanded an end to global
00:53:38
suffering, powerfully asserting that humankind, for the first time, has the resources and technology to eradicate
00:53:45
poverty. Check out this week's recommended reading, Where Do We Go From Here, Chaos or Community by Dr. Martin
00:53:53
Luther King Jr. You can find that title and many great other recommendations on our recommended page
00:54:01
at truecrimegarage.com. And until next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter.
00:54:09
>> [music] [music] [music] >> Courage. I learned it from my adoptive mom. >> Hold my hand?
00:54:47
>> You hold my hand. >> Learn about adopting a teen from foster care at adoptuskids.org.
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You can't imagine the reward. Brought to you by adoptuskids, the US Department of
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Health and Human Services, and the Ad Council.