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GameChanger [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:44
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that knows that beer is proof that God loves us and
00:01:50
he wants us to be happy he is the captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to
00:01:57
see you thanks for listening thanks for telling on a [Music] friend tonight we are drinking liquid
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Sunshine by our friends from Breakside Brewery in Portland Oregon garage grade 4 and 1 12 bottle caps out of five this
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is Breakside year round German style pillner because any time of year is a great time for Breakside mhm and like I
00:02:22
said on yesterday's show go get you some because it is good good tasty business and Breakside and Breakside liquid
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Sunshine was brought to us by some of our good friends can't I can't get the words out
00:02:35
of my mouth CU you keep saying tasty business all right it's brought To Us by our good friends first up we have auntie
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and Helsinki and from beautiful Parts Unknown we have Tracy and Louise next we have Kevin from Ludington Michigan Kevin
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says he's just emerged from behind the Walmart referencing one of our old cases of course who knows maybe maybe Kevin
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sleeps behind the Walmart and a big shout out to Catherine in Houston Texas a lot of beautiful women in Houston
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Texas we also have Sarah and Angie they are two former Ohio winds now living in beautiful Denver Colorado oh IO and last
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but not least we have Nicole and Silver Spring Maryland so thanks to everybody for giving us the beer for this week's
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the Donate button we like your jib and for all bonus episodes we have a couple out the brick of family family murders
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and Tony Muny you want to check those out in the iTunes Store so you go to the iTunes Store and search True Crime
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garage and we have some episodes there check those out all right that's enough of the business everybody gather around
00:03:43
grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music] [Music] also new at 11 there are new
00:04:20
developments in the search for a little boy who's been missing for 4 days now and Kiren Horman vanished from his
00:04:25
Portland Oregon Elementary School on Friday since then police have received more more than a thousand tips but so
00:04:31
far have come up empty the search for 7-year-old Kiren Horman is well into its fourth night and
00:04:38
so far nothing 22 local state and federal agencies are now involved searching the
00:04:46
thick wooded area around kirn's Elementary School stopping cars handing out flyers and pleading for information
00:04:54
Kiren we're going to we're going to bring you home buddy um nothing is more important to your
00:05:01
family your friends to us Kiren was last seen by his stepmother after a science fair at the school early Friday morning
00:05:08
walking down a hallway toward his second grade classroom she says he was wearing
00:05:12
this CSI t-shirt and dark cargo pants it appears he didn't make it to any of his
00:05:17
classes and his teachers just considered him absent for the day his stepmother reported him missing when he didn't come
00:05:24
home on the school bus Friday afternoon coming out here you haven't found him this long it's not a good feeling he
00:05:31
just seems to have evaporated in the thin air and that's that's just scary and even with more than 1200 tips to
00:05:38
follow up on police are still asking for more and kirn's mother has not spoken public publicly yet she says she doesn't
00:05:45
want to jeopardize that investigation and authorities are now calling Kiren a missing endangered child but have yet to
00:05:52
say whether he was kidnapped or just wandered [Music] off [Music] [Music] on Friday June 4th
00:06:14
2010 7-year-old Kiron Horman is driven to school by his stepmother they get out of the car around 8:00 a.m. just
00:06:22
afterward and they attend the science fair for a little bit that day now his stepmother is last person to see him
00:06:31
this is at the Skyline Elementary School in Portland Oregon and Kiren is in the second grade now he's last seen around
00:06:39
8:45 a.m. this would be during the hours of the science fair which was to take place from 8 to 10: a.m. that morning
00:06:48
and he's not seen an attendance at his first class that day which started at 10:00 a.m. now on yesterday's show we
00:06:55
got through the Friday June 4th and the events that took place he was was eventually reported missing this would
00:07:01
be before 400 p.m. that day and a full search was conducted of both the Kiren Horman home and the school that he
00:07:09
attended in the grounds nearby and then where we left off was the start of that Saturday June 5th well on June 5th at
00:07:18
5:00 a.m. the Pacific Northwest search and rescue this is another Search Group which was called by the sheriff's office
00:07:25
they join the search effort soon after this time and when they arrive on site there are already about 60 to 70 people
00:07:32
involved in the search a little after 9:00 a.m. that day the Associated Press receives its first official notification
00:07:40
that Kiren Horman is missing via email the subject line was Sheriff's Office continues to search for 7-year-old Kiren
00:07:49
Horman and at this time there is a tip line that is created as well on noon that day there's a news conference and
00:07:57
at that news conference a sheriff spokesman says that the search for Kiren is still a missing person's case and not
00:08:04
a criminal investigation the Portland Public School District uses its rapid broadcast system to alert staff and
00:08:12
parents of skyline school students that were at school on Friday to come to the K through 8 on Sunday for a briefing by
00:08:21
police and federal agents quickly in this case the law enforcement are going to ask for help from the FBI but they're
00:08:27
also going to get the national guard involved in the initial searches yes because that evening the FBI National
00:08:34
Guard they joined the search effort and that afternoon a complete immediate grid
00:08:39
search around the school is conducted now after 1000 p.m. that day a Facebook page is created for supporters of Kiren
00:08:48
and his family the next day on Sunday June 6th just before 9 a.m. kirn's stepmother Terry post on Facebook and
00:08:57
says she has ordered ordered missing persons Flyers uh her words I ordered 1,000 Flyers they will be coming to our
00:09:05
home I will let people know when they are here so we can go from there thank you everyone around this time the FBI
00:09:14
announces that they have brought in a Quantico Virginia based profiler to create a profile of the missing boy just
00:09:23
before 10:00 a.m. that day students and their parents return to the skyline school to interviewed by detectives uh
00:09:32
50 detectives are on hand for interviews that continue until 400 p.m. that day now my understanding is Captain they
00:09:39
they tried to organize this thing best that they could because they have students and parents arriving uh to be
00:09:45
questioned by detectives and interviewed and they set up a system where they actually interviewed the older students
00:09:52
first you know we mentioned that this was a k through eight um so they started with the older kids first working their
00:09:58
way down to the young younger ones which makes a lot of sense cuz we'd assume that their eyewitness statements from
00:10:03
older students would be just more reliable yeah they'll hold more weight and this is an urgent situation if he's
00:10:10
in a situation where he's in danger you need to get to him as fast as you can so
00:10:14
you want to check for those most likely credible tips first one interesting thing about this search is I mean the
00:10:20
Big Grid search that you were just talking about because I mean I guess one of the thoughts would be well if he was
00:10:26
unsupervised during this science their time uh from like 9 to 10:00 who's to say that he didn't just walk out of the
00:10:34
school right and wander off but then how much distance is the seven-year-old going to cover so that that's why they
00:10:40
did that giant grid search like you were talking about yeah and that later that same day relatives begin Distributing
00:10:47
missing person Flyers with a photo of Kiren and this description that he is 3 8 in tall 5050 lb blue eyes brown hair
00:10:58
and last seeing seen wearing black cargo pants white socks and black Sketcher tennis shoes with orange trim at 9 p.m.
00:11:07
the sheriff's department they escalate kirn's disappearance to a missing endangered child case but they do not
00:11:15
call it a kidnapping at this time on Monday June 7th early in the morning 18 certified search and rescue volunteers
00:11:25
resume sweeping the area near the school as deputies canvas the neighborhood handing out flyers and jotting down
00:11:33
license plate numbers of passing Vehicles along Northwest Skyline Boulevard that is a very clever idea and
00:11:40
for those of you wondering why would they do this this seems a bit random what they're doing here is they're kind
00:11:45
of casting a wide net because okay this is Monday morning and at the time that they're doing this this would be roughly
00:11:52
about the same time that Kiren would have been at school and then had gone missing right and so in the same time
00:11:58
frame they just want to get a general idea of who would be typically passing through this area during that time by
00:12:06
jotting down those license plates the the similarities here is it's a business day just like it was on Friday it was a
00:12:12
school day just like it was on Friday who would be traveling who would be you know this would be somebody's normal
00:12:19
route well maybe they're a suspect maybe they happen to see something that day that they don't realize is of importance
00:12:26
I think the other thing too is possibly if somebody took kirn then possibly they're coming back to the scene of the
00:12:33
crime yes and around 8:45 a.m. that day classes resume at Skyline school counselors are on hand and they also set
00:12:42
up some kind of counseling hotline uh this would be to answer questions and obviously offer help to people that are
00:12:49
traumatized or saddened by this situation now on the same morning kirn's stepmother Terry she post on Facebook
00:12:57
that she is hitting the gym um and this has met with a lot of uh a lot of frown faces let's say um a
00:13:07
lot of people a little bit upset that she seems to be hitting the gym and posting that she's hitting the gym on
00:13:14
Facebook while a whole bunch of people were out looking for her stepson now on Wednesday just two days later Wednesday
00:13:22
June 9th uh in the morning Terry she makes her Facebook page private uh which makes sense because she's received a lot
00:13:31
of flak for her hitting the gym comment that she made at 11:00 a.m. on that Wednesday an FBI spokeswoman announces
00:13:39
that the Horman family is not speaking to the media because they do not believe it is in the best interest of finding
00:13:47
Kiron at noon uh news briefings begin uh this is with the sheriff's department uh
00:13:53
Sheriff's Captain Mike Schultz reads a statement from kirn's family stating kiran's family would like to thank
00:14:00
people for support and interest in finding their son the outpour of support and continued effort strengthens their
00:14:08
hope we I mean other than the nons support about the Facebook comments yeah we need for you folks to continue to
00:14:17
assist us in our goal please search your properties your cars out buildings sheds
00:14:24
Etc also check with neighbors and friends who may be on vacation or may need assistance in searching their
00:14:32
property so this is we've seen this in several cases before this is kind of a uh cry for help to the public to the
00:14:39
general public well this is where the search to me becomes pretty sad because it's pretty obvious that this is a
00:14:45
criminal case mhm it's starting to look that way it's been three days he's still
00:14:50
gone MH now on Thursday June 10th and Friday June 11th the search resumes but this time time the search expands to a
00:15:00
place called Savi Island which is I understand it's about 6 miles from the school uh obviously there's a lot of
00:15:08
water there um this is also kind of a very uh inhabited area um I guess a lot of a lot of fields and things like that
00:15:18
so they they've expanded the search to the Savi Island at 1 p.m. they're going to have a press conference this is the
00:15:24
clip that we play in part one of this four-part series yeah you hear the stepfather speaking at this press
00:15:30
conference as well as kirn's father now by this point we're we're one week removed you know one week after The
00:15:38
Disappearance and still no kirant now on that Sunday June 13th at noon the Sheriff's Office announces that the
00:15:46
massive search for Kiron has ended and the case has been shifted to a criminal investigation uh this was a huge search
00:15:55
you know lasted over 10 lasted 10 days by this point point one of the largest in State history they have checked two a
00:16:03
2 m radius round Skyline school and also parts of Savi Island the Sheriff's Office also announces it is looking for
00:16:12
any video footage of traffic on several different Portland area roads in the general area near the school it's clear
00:16:19
to me that the FBI is involved because I mean some of these ideas that they're coming up with these are things that
00:16:25
have been missed in other cases correct now before we move on past this weekend I want to talk about some things that
00:16:33
happened within the first week of the search for Kiren was Terry working out more um yeah apparently she's posting
00:16:42
she posted uh five times on Facebook that she's working out yeah well it was she into the oldies she went to the gym
00:16:50
at least on the day that he went missing and then again on uh early in the week after umh you know it's strange because
00:16:58
because at one point she was um some type of was into bodybuilding it was a hobby of hers for a short period of time
00:17:06
she even uh participated in competitions so when you hear that part of her life you think well this is somebody that was
00:17:14
very regimented and probably working out was a daily part of their life um she was many years removed from from that
00:17:24
hobby mhm and she wasn't as regimented as one would think bodybuilder to be because like I said this is this is five
00:17:32
six years after she last competed in she had a child yes and so I don't think she
00:17:38
was working out that often it seems or maybe seem a little weird though that maybe some time has freed up in your
00:17:47
life and the gym becomes more of a priority uh I don't know how much she was doing this before The Disappearance
00:17:55
you know and so then look it's not that weird that she drops off uh you know her
00:18:00
stepson at school and then she goes to the gym MH that seems like a normal activity especially if you're trying to
00:18:06
get involved it's not even that probably abnormal if somebody you know I get stressed out pretty easy one of the
00:18:13
things that can relieve a bunch of stress for me is if I you know run a couple miles or lift a little you know a
00:18:19
couple weights sometimes that helps uh so maybe that's what she's doing I think the downfall here is that you post it on
00:18:25
social media like you said why you're why people are searching for your kid MH I think I'd also have a really hard time
00:18:32
doing anything other than searching right and I think that's you know kind of suspicious there and like you said I
00:18:40
mean at one point she was in in really good shape she probably it looked like at one point she went to the gym and she
00:18:46
hit the weights hard and now she kind of looks like she goes to the gym and um eats ice cream all right I got a little
00:18:54
sidetracked we got a little sidetracked there but the some things that of other question behavior that I wanted to bring
00:18:59
up before we move on past this weekend here so sometime during the first week that kirn is missing some news reports
00:19:07
start coming out about Cain's brother remember Cain is kiran's Father uh his brother his brother's name is Christian
00:19:14
the news is that back in 2008 Christian molested his 15-year-old stepdaughter uh
00:19:21
he was caught and convicted for these charges but it wasn't until 2009 that he was arrested Ed for this and then in
00:19:30
June uh he started to serve his sentence this was for a third degree charge uh so
00:19:36
he served like about a six-month sentence in this so he would have been out of prison at the time of kirn's
00:19:44
disappearance he was investigated pretty heavily and looked at pretty pretty well
00:19:49
early in the get-go and he was cleared uh for good reason I'm guessing uh very early into this investigation but it's
00:19:57
something should mention yeah they don't State what it is but I'm guessing that he had a solid Alibi and then we also
00:20:03
have the situation Captain where we get a story from kirn's stepmother Terry that she's at the gym no this is a story
00:20:12
that seems a little different than the story that we've already been told okay so what is the previous story was that
00:20:20
she last Saw Kiren walking toward his classroom his first class classroom door he's feet from the door approximately at
00:20:29
8:45 a.m. when she leaves the school to go about her day in this second story she sees him in this same general area
00:20:40
but this time Kiron is with an unidentified male uh an adult so we have we have this addition
00:20:50
of this unidentified person popping up in the Second Story here yeah so what do you think of
00:20:56
that I think it's very fishy um I I think as far as a parent goes when you're being asked when the last time
00:21:04
you saw your missing child whether it be a stepchild or your own that you're probably visualizing everything that you
00:21:12
thought you saw and I you would you would include anything you know what I mean like possi have you ever like I've
00:21:19
been asked questions by the police before for what for things that I that I may have witnessed or may not have
00:21:26
witnessed but what I tend to do when I'm in those situations is I want you lie I
00:21:31
want to be as forthcoming as possible so usually I will even include things that
00:21:36
I think have no relevancy to what they're talking about well no I'm just saying I could see a law enforcement guy
00:21:45
interviewing you and then going this guy is just telling me a bunch of nonsense to throw me off the scent no but let me
00:21:51
give you an an example okay because I'm trying to help be as helpful as possible
00:21:56
so let's say if a if if a detective asked me hey Nick on Friday at noon did you see a brown car on this road mhm my
00:22:07
answer would be probably a little more than he'd want maybe but I would say I didn't see a brown car but I remember
00:22:13
seeing a blue car you know it it it may have something to do with the the situation it may not but I you I tend to
00:22:20
think of everything I could possibly think of and then include it in my statement what I'm getting at by this is
00:22:27
I don't see that a way that she's asked about the last time that she saw her stepson and all of a sudden now this
00:22:33
dude magically appears in her memory yeah yeah I mean I I get what you're feeling for me
00:22:41
though it's like it might have been one of those things where it's like I don't know I I don't know exactly what
00:22:47
happened I saw him walking towards his room and maybe he was talking to one of his friends or whatever and maybe she
00:22:53
just didn't you know at the time it wasn't that big of a deal I mean they probably ask her this first question
00:22:59
like the day he went missing right mhm and then maybe as she was pondering it or the fact that people were like well
00:23:06
there is no record of him being in the home room and maybe that bothered her and as she kept pondering it and
00:23:13
pondering it maybe she was like but well you know what hypothetically speaking what if
00:23:19
she's like well I saw him with this kid and then they talked to the kid and the kid doesn't remember MH then at some
00:23:24
point she's like oh well there was this there was this man that was close and maybe he could um you know have my
00:23:31
story make sense or maybe he has some idea I'm just saying it's not it's not out of the question that somebody would
00:23:39
remember uh start remembering a little more details as time was passing you would think that that story would come
00:23:45
out sooner but again I don't think it's super nefarious you know I get it I get it but I'm I'm thinking that that she
00:23:53
would have been questioned and asked questions many times over and over again about that story
00:24:00
very early yeah would hope so but we've seen seen but we're talking about a situation where we have by the end of
00:24:07
Friday the same day that he went missing their home had been searched so I'm guessing just by that I'm going to go
00:24:13
with she probably been interviewed by police by that point maybe more than once by the by the morning the next
00:24:20
morning the FBI has arrived and they're on the scene I bet you she's questioning
00:24:25
again at that time we don't we don't know notes right but what notes were they taken what was recorded did she did
00:24:32
she ever mention this in passing you know I think it's you know it's an interesting point but I think it's one
00:24:39
of the pieces of this case that kind of gets brought up a bunch like well she changed her story but it's like but she
00:24:44
didn't change her story much it was just oh yeah it's just the addition of this guy right and there might have been an
00:24:50
adult a male adult chaperon by him it's a possibility but I think some people look at at it too even if you don't look
00:24:59
at it as changing the story because but let's stop this cuz that's what it is it's changing the it's a different story
00:25:06
okay um with the addition now we have the addition of this dude is that taking is that adding that's adding to the
00:25:13
equation a possibility no I look I agree but I I think change in the story is is
00:25:19
one thing if she you know if there was a big change at the story I to me this is
00:25:24
addition to the story so that's where I'm saying that's that's the difference for me but is it any different than
00:25:30
saying I last saw him with a python next to him yes yeah I know those words are different there's a human and there's a
00:25:39
p python right but what I'm getting at is I think the implication here is that I last saw him by himself now I've last
00:25:47
seen him with probably his abductor or a python right mhm I get your point though
00:25:54
right I mean because we're talking about we have a a few possibilities that took place he
00:26:02
ran off on his own somebody that knew him took him or somebody that didn't know him take him right so when when you
00:26:08
when you throw out there that oh I saw him with some dude well now all of a sudden you're throwing out something
00:26:14
that likely could be the outcome of what took place it's it's it's a very big addition you know uh I I get that it's
00:26:23
not totally changing it's adding but it's a very big addition into the story we'll get right back to Facebook post
00:26:30
and pythons right after this quick beer [Music] break this show is sponsored by better
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[Music] 2023 all right cheers mates cheers Captain well now we're going to get to
00:28:51
the juicy stuff okay because on Monday June 14th the Sheriff's Office sends divers to Savi Island where divers can
00:29:00
be seen waiting in waste high water near the Savi Island Bridge well why does this Savi Island keep popping up and why
00:29:08
do they keep going back there to search well we have to talk about some cell phone pings going off of the tower that
00:29:15
is located there yeah the famous cell phone pings and as so far as we can tell Terry the stepmother who was in charge
00:29:22
of dropping Kiron off at school that day may have been the last person to seen him in the school well she gives an
00:29:31
account of what she was doing that day and remember we have that window where she's driving the toddler around to try
00:29:38
to ease her earache and help her fall asleep well she can be you basically got to say she's unaccounted for during that
00:29:48
time frame well they her phone her cell phone pings off of that tower that is located on Savi Island so the issue here
00:29:58
is police and investigators are working on the situation that she may have been on that island during that time and like
00:30:06
we know with cell phone technology it is possible that the Ping happened on that
00:30:11
island but she wasn't on the island right but we can assume that maybe that ping is right and she was on that island
00:30:18
at some point during that Gap right and at no time did she ever tell investigators that she was on Savi
00:30:24
Island now we don't know much about this area cuz we don't live there but I wonder if it's like you were saying
00:30:30
before um when we're talking on the phone you said well wouldn't you know if you're on an island right but again it's
00:30:38
like one of those things where it's like it's only six miles away from the school
00:30:42
right so it's like I don't know the aot that well so I don't know if it would be
00:30:47
possible for her just to be driving around and not for sure if she ever drove on the island or not so from my
00:30:55
understanding is this cell phone phone tower on Savi Island would be the second closest one to where she would have been
00:31:03
that day okay so but we the problem is like you said that doesn't we we know this now back in 2010 it might not have
00:31:12
been so clear but we know now that sometimes the the phone call or the pings don't necessarily go to the the
00:31:20
closest Tower right where you are located because there there is that glitch and we've learned that from other
00:31:26
cases I believe that was one thing that was discussed quite a bit in the Adnan SED case um so I think I think we have a
00:31:34
situation here where they're they're probably right to be searching the island but I don't know how much weight
00:31:39
we can put into this because there's a chance that she she could have pinged off that Tower and never have been on
00:31:46
that island that day now that brings us to Tuesday June 15th um at 8:45 a.m. this is the final
00:31:54
day of classes for school uh for the Skyline Elementary School and of course they end school that day at 300 p.m. we
00:32:02
want to be clear about this date because there was some news uh interviews that came out early in this case where
00:32:10
somebody misspoke and said that uh that school was actually the last day of school would have been the day that
00:32:16
Kiren went missing yeah it was actually an investigator so it became a big thing
00:32:21
because everybody's going well this investigator said that it was the last day but it wasn't the last day yeah I
00:32:27
believe it was a retired uh Sheriff's Department investigator um the problem with this why why is this such a big
00:32:35
deal what day the last day of school was well because there's an issue because Terry at one point had told kirn's
00:32:43
teachers that he was to have a doctor's appointment on Friday right and the way that it's reported is that she simply
00:32:51
said he's having a doctor's appointment on Friday well this causes a lot of confusion because he went missing on a
00:32:58
Friday the issue here is that the teachers are saying that it no red flags went off when he was absent from school
00:33:06
that day when he was missing classes because we had been told by the stepmother that he would be at a
00:33:13
doctor's appointment later Terry would tell investigators no I was speaking about the following Friday right which
00:33:20
again it's just it depends on when she said this to the teachers and did they hear her right MH or did she misspeak uh
00:33:29
who knows right I but I think this is one of those things where we have a He Said She Said She Said She Said
00:33:36
situation um you know and it just might just be one of these unclear things but one of the reasons that people point
00:33:43
this out is they think that if they told this the teachers on the Tuesday hey he's going to be absent because of this
00:33:50
doctor's appointment that that would give no red flags on why he'd be gone from the school right and that's why
00:33:56
people keep pointing this out so on that same Tuesday the last day of school um we have the Sheriff's Office releasing a
00:34:07
photo of a pair of glasses that are just like the type that Kiren was wearing when he was last scen and then at 3:30
00:34:16
that afternoon the Sheriff's Office releases a new version of the photo of Kiren at his school science fair this
00:34:23
version created using photo editing softare where shows what Kiron would look like without his glasses mhm so
00:34:32
what the what the heck does this mean well this this is very interesting because now I think we have a situation
00:34:38
where they they've had time to think this through and anybody that looks at kirn's picture as the captain said ear
00:34:44
he's a he's a cute kid he's very very cute kid but he he does wear these big glasses that can potentially distract
00:34:53
you a little bit from the features of his face right mhm well what if he was abducted or removed from the school
00:35:01
against his will and at some point he loses his glasses because of you know some kind of scuffle or the abductor
00:35:09
says hey take your glasses off yeah and throws them out the window of of the abductor car right so now we we need to
00:35:16
be concerned that we could very potentially be looking for the exact same boy without this identifier of
00:35:22
having glasses on the other thing is if you think that that story is plausible or it's something that may have happened
00:35:29
well then you also should be looking for these actual glasses yeah I think they brought this up because there was a
00:35:37
bigger lead that maybe that we don't know about or they didn't discuss CU I mean obviously you're going to look for
00:35:44
you know a pair of glasses that are just laying in the middle of nowhere you're going to be looking for possibly a CSI
00:35:49
shirt you're going to be looking for a bunch of different things of this little boy now two weeks after Kiren has been
00:35:56
missing the Sheriff's Office releases a flyer asking parents and kids about June
00:36:00
4th the flyer has photos of Kiren Terry his stepmother and a picture of a pickup
00:36:07
truck which is similar to the one that she was driving on the day that he went missing right the family approves this
00:36:14
flyer um and it's then sent out to the public and this kind of paints a a strange picture here right because we're
00:36:23
not at any point having the Sheriff's Office say that Terry the stepmother is a suspect right but this flyer kind of
00:36:30
points to that yeah cuz now they're asking hey have you seen this boy okay if you haven't seen this boy have you
00:36:35
seen this woman and have you seen this pickup truck or any of the three you know two of the three together all of
00:36:41
them all of them together I mean cuz that's the big thing here is I mean if she's driving around town with her
00:36:47
daughter in the car and she also has her stepson in the car wouldn't there possibly be an eyewitness out there that
00:36:54
would see all three together mhm uh and then we have on Thursday June 24th the uh kirn's family releases three
00:37:02
home videos and 200 photos of Kiron uh this you know trying to get a different image and different angles of this kid
00:37:10
to get more things out into the public so everybody keeps looking for them on Saturday June 26th at 5:17 p.m. the
00:37:20
first of 2 911 calls were made from the Horman residents this first call comes in as a
00:37:28
quote unquote Threat Call and the sheriff's deputy responded to the call MH later that same day this is just
00:37:37
before midnight a second call was made from the Horman residence 2 911 this call has been classified as a custody
00:37:46
issue so going back to the threat call is that somebody threatening somebody else or so that would be my guess um
00:37:54
because really that's all we have to go off of but here's what we do know we can
00:37:58
use some other information in this to to figure out what that threat call was that's probably some kind of domestic
00:38:03
disturbance or domestic situation between Terry the stepmother and Cain the father right and the reason being is
00:38:12
the second call is a custody issue well Kiron is missing uh the only other kid that would be at the home at this point
00:38:19
would be their daughter that that they had together oh yeah but they have the older son but by this point he's moved
00:38:26
out of the home okay so there's only one child in there and that child has the has both parents live together in this
00:38:33
home right because here's the issue at some point and I don't know the exact date but I do know that it took place
00:38:40
sometime after those 291 911 calls on a Saturday and before like let's say midday on Monday right Kane kyon's
00:38:50
father he moves out of the home out of the family home and he takes the daughter with him when he leaves so I
00:38:57
think it's obvious that there's some kind of there's some kind of argument or thing that escalated between the two of
00:39:04
them within the home that at some point led to him leaving with his daughter I think he's sick and tired of her sick
00:39:12
and tired of her posting about her workouts on Facebook well then we have on okay so let's talk about Monday June
00:39:20
28th this is uh People magazine comes out on this day and it's important because this ISS featured kirn's story
00:39:28
okay now we have Terry's father Larry uh he's interviewed and he told the magazine that she has that Terry has
00:39:36
been subjected to repeated interviews of up to 6 hours each and that the truck she was driving on the day that Kiren
00:39:44
disappeared has been inspected twice now yeah but the problem with that truck is
00:39:49
you're going to find DNA evidence of that little boy being in the truck because that's her his father's truck
00:39:55
yeah I don't think I don't see anything strange with her being interviewed or the truck being inspected uh I think
00:40:02
that there's been there seems to be some kind of focus on her at this point and that's what he's being asked about and
00:40:08
furthermore he's asked whether he thought that his daughter would be arrested to which he applies or replies
00:40:14
with tears in his eyes it's probably 50/50 now later that afternoon Terry denies the news that her husband and
00:40:24
daughter had moved out of the family home home stating everything's good giving a thumbs up uh to reporters
00:40:32
saying that we heard that rumor it's just a rumor that needs to be squelched everything is
00:40:39
fine look I mean I look I know you can't like you shouldn't make fun of people the way they look you know but I mean
00:40:48
she kind of looks like a turtle okay and I'm just picturing a little turtle with
00:40:53
the thumbs up everything's good he he took your daughter and he left his house right not
00:41:02
you know there this is not time for thumbs up well yeah and I mean she's probably getting information to not be
00:41:09
speaking about this yeah yeah of course uh as much as what's going on and who knows what took place with inside those
00:41:15
four walls on that Saturday um now that same day kirn's father mother and stepfather they asked the sheriff office
00:41:26
to release a statement stating they were cooperating in the investigation now the Stepmother's name
00:41:34
Terry's name was obviously absent from this statement so basically you have the the the Sheriff's Office releasing a
00:41:42
statement saying we have four parents three of them are cooperating one of them is not with this investigation yeah
00:41:51
but again if she's doing 6-hour interviews I mean she's cooperating on some level mhm Terry is also served with
00:41:58
a restraining order on that day um and she's not supposed to be near the family home or returning to the family home
00:42:08
until that you know order is lifted now Cain the the father of Kiren does he say
00:42:14
that she made threats during an argument or what's happening here well because there's a restraining order so normally
00:42:22
you have to show proof of why you need a restraining order well we're about to find that out because on Sunday July
00:42:31
4th okay so we're so now we're just about a week after those 911 calls mhm and we are just about what six seven
00:42:41
days after the restraining order yeah we have a newspaper that reveals that a landscaper who worked for kirn's family
00:42:50
at their home told authorities that the missing boy's stepmother off offered to pay him to kill her
00:42:58
husband he said that Terry approached him with a murder For Hire plot approximately 6 to 7 months before Kiron
00:43:08
disappeared and she reportedly offered the landscaper a large sum of money this story or this part of the story is super
00:43:17
odd to me yeah because the cuz what you're going to tell the listeners is that the husband he's pretty shocked
00:43:26
that you know she would try to hire the landscaper to kill him but he's also pretty shocked that they have a
00:43:33
landscaper right so let's get into this because this is really a big part of this case so we have this situation we
00:43:40
would later learn that the investigators informed Caine about this murder for higher plot and it was shortly after
00:43:50
that that he moved out so I'm thinking he finds out she may have tried to have me killed so now now there's going to be
00:43:59
probably some 911 calls that involve some kind of domestic thing and then a uh I'm taking the kid and I'm I'm going
00:44:08
to Idaho you know um because you'll never find me there the um cuz he likes potatoes well let's take let's take a
00:44:17
look at this because the situation is this the landscaper comes forward tells the police about this situation the
00:44:24
police try to do some form of investigation they hook up a wire to this guy they return him to Terry with a
00:44:32
with another guy you know and Terry's like oh who's who's this dude you know I thought you and I were talking about
00:44:38
some things and he goes hey I'm not going to do this I'm just going to be the middleman right you know this is
00:44:44
going to be the supposed Hitman uh that we're going to use for this murder for higher plot the thing is Terry never
00:44:53
says anything to incriminate herself when they are recording these conversations she actually waves it off
00:44:59
and says I don't know what you guys are talking about I don't know why you're here right uh and so that is is pushed
00:45:07
aside real quick as far as the police being able to do anything with this information or with this story now the
00:45:14
way that I've heard that the way that I've seen this reported and what I've read says that the landscaper would tell
00:45:24
police that at no time did she ever directly say to him when they were oneon-one you know would you kill my
00:45:33
husband and I will pay you X number of dollars mhm that never happened that conversation never happened according to
00:45:40
the landscaper what he says is that he that she approached him and through conversation she told him that her
00:45:48
husband was a very abusive man mhm um and that he often walked around with about $10,000 on his
00:45:58
person and basically implying that if if it looked like a mugging and he ends up
00:46:05
dead the person that did the mugging could walk away with quite a bit of money yeah I just don't know how much I
00:46:11
believe this landscaper at all mhm you know because yeah they might you know she never uh asked me to kill him she
00:46:22
just kind of implied it and it's like yeah but maybe she just implied that she wasn't happy in the marriage and this
00:46:29
guy's kind of a jerk of a guy and yeah he carries around money I mean who knows right I mean and then and then the big
00:46:36
thing to me is when did the cops learn about this did they learn about it before The Disappearance did they learn
00:46:41
about it after The Disappearance right because that's where all the weight of the situation comes and the words that
00:46:47
are used come into play because had this guy come forward before Kiren went missing well then you say well this I
00:46:56
would lend I would tend to believe that this likely happened that this conversation happened and that he
00:47:01
believed that he was supposed to kill this man this abusive husband but don't you think this muys up everything like
00:47:10
if you knew about this before The Disappearance you couldn't prove anything and then if you learn about
00:47:14
this after The Disappearance and you couldn't prove anything after The Disappearance then giving this
00:47:19
information to the father doesn't that just like make every Everything really Mucky
00:47:26
right yeah and here here's why I tend to believe that it's it's more likely that
00:47:32
police learn about this situation after kirn had disappeared we're talking about
00:47:38
a situation even if they even if they wiretap right and they come up with nothing right don't you think that
00:47:45
they're going to approach the potential Target at some point to at least notify him that there's a chance that your life
00:47:51
could be in danger yeah do I mean I would think they would would have an obligation to do that but yeah
00:48:00
so maybe I don't know that's a tough one I mean at the very least don't you think
00:48:04
you're getting a phone call from the police saying do you know so and so he says he's your landscaper MH I mean at
00:48:11
the very least and then we hear later the father saying I didn't even know we had a landscaper right and the the
00:48:17
problem with this and we were talking about this earlier is what if this landscaper just full of [ __ ] cuz one the
00:48:23
par the father says I didn't even know we had a landscaper right and I was telling you I think for you not to know
00:48:30
that you have a landscaper and we disagree on this but for me if I didn't if I didn't know I had a landscaper I
00:48:37
would be like well and this guy works from home like a few days a week like at some point you you might hear like the
00:48:46
lawnmower going off or some uh the blower going off and you you see a guy walking around your house you probably
00:48:51
should assume you have a landscaper this guy doesn't even know he has a landscaper and so you brought up a great
00:48:56
point which I I didn't even think about before but you know what if this landscaper just completely
00:49:02
lying about everything to be involved in the story right just to be involved in the story and now again you have this
00:49:09
really odd situation because yeah there's some stuff that's already pointing to the fact that Terry uh the
00:49:16
Stepmom is a little fishy you know or a little turttly whatever you want to say well I think I think the thing here is
00:49:26
okay I didn't even know we had a landscaper and I know you say that it seems crazy that somebody wouldn't know
00:49:31
that they have a landscaper I think the problem is that when we hear in one sentence somebody say she offered their
00:49:39
landscaper that worked at their home money to kill her husband I think we immediately leap to the conclusion that
00:49:46
this guy worked for them long term like every week yeah there there is a chance that that possibly this he may have just
00:49:54
come out and gave them a quote on something right or he may have just came out and fixed or did one job on one day
00:50:03
some trees and they have that conversation after that job or during that job about hey my husband walks
00:50:10
around with $10,000 you should bust up his kneecaps and kill him you know so um I I think
00:50:17
that that I don't think we should look too much into his this guy's occupation or how often he worked for I think it's
00:50:24
very likely that kir you know that that Kane didn't know that some guy on one time came and worked at their home right
00:50:32
but that's the thing about this I I really think there's this is a big piece of the puzzle and there's so many blurry
00:50:39
parts of the story there's so many questions we don't know and if it's like if they it'd be great if there was just
00:50:45
an interview about this with Cain and I think what you're getting at which you're right to say so is that well why
00:50:52
then would this random landscaper just come forward and and talk about this story well we know that all of these in
00:51:00
all of these cases the ones that get all this public attention and that are on TV
00:51:05
and in the newspapers well especially cases involving kids Crazies come out of the woodwork we have people that say
00:51:12
that they're involved in the crime people will come forward and say they committed the crime people will come
00:51:18
forward and say that they saw things that they didn't see or that things happen that didn't happen
00:51:23
so did it happen we don't know now if you believe that it did happen it man it's not very far for you to go well if
00:51:32
she did that then she probably did something or is responsible for kiran's disappearance it's a huge red flag M
00:51:39
it's a this red flags as big as Idaho there's red flags and somehow pythons and turtles have weaved their way into
00:51:48
this tail and then at the end of the day what we have is we still have a missing
00:51:52
little boy he's seven years old we have this and and it's not so much a search for him anymore of course they're going
00:51:59
to keep searching for him right but this has changed from from looking for a little boy to now we have a criminal
00:52:07
investigation here and these minutes these hours these days are crucial very crucial well on top of that we have all
00:52:13
this weird speculation coming out but we also have the stepparents and the parents there's a lot of feuding going
00:52:20
on with when You' think a time that the family would come to together mhm we're just adding gasoline to the fire yeah
00:52:29
and this is a really big case this is a huge case and that's why we are excited to be able to do uh part three and part
00:52:36
four on it that will come out next week um but we got a lot more stuff to get to
00:52:41
we do have some recommended reading for this week Captain this week we are recommending the last Chicago boss my
00:52:48
life with the Chicago Outlaws motorcycle club by Big Pete James Big Pete reveals
00:52:54
how he became became the Godfather of the Chicago Outlaws the last Chicago boss reads like the Sons of Anarchy come
00:53:02
to life complete with never before revealed interviews police files wir Taps recordings and trial transcripts so
00:53:10
get on your bike and ride over to our recommended page at truecrime garage.com check out all of our recommendations
00:53:16
there and if you find something that you like use our Amazon Banner to make those
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purchases cost you nothing extra and it helps out the garage thank you to everybody for joining us in the garage
00:53:26
this week we will see you right back here next week until then be good be kind and don't
00:53:32
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