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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
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with me weighing in at a little more than a bucket of nails and a little less than a shopping cart full of bowling
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balls hailing from parts unknown USA, the people's champ, ladies and gentlemen, the Captain.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's good to be seen and it's good to see you. Thanks for
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listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Happy American Craft Beer Week, everybody. Today we are drinking Pirate
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Bomb by the geniuses over at Prairie Artisan Ales in beautiful Tulsa, Oklahoma. Garage grade four and three
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quarter bottle caps out of five. Get out your snifter glasses and try this Imperial stout. They basically take
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their already awesome Prairie Bomb beer and age it in rum cast to create Pirate Bomb.
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And the outcome is delicious. You get hints of vanilla and coconut flavors and it is very full-bodied and a very smooth
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beer. And this brew is brought to us by First up in Livermore, California, we have Lynn. Also in Cali, out in Napa, we
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have Terry. And in Bay Harbor, Florida, we have Allison. All right, Elvis. All the way out in
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Seoul, South Korea, we say hello and thanks to Sarah. And in our favorite stop Parts Unknown, we have Marilyn,
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Vanessa, Jenny, and Jason. And a little announcement for Parts Unknown, if you're going to drop your
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probably want to get this done before you get a swift kick to the grundle. All right, that's enough of the
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business. Everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
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This is True Crime Garage. And this is the case of the missing Welch girls. Laure Bible is described as 5'5" tall,
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130 lb, with brown hair and hazel eyes. Ashley Freeman is 5'7" tall, 145 lb, with dark blonde hair and blue eyes.
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She has a scar on the upper left side of her forehead. Both are Caucasian females and were 16
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years old at the time of their disappearance. They have been missing since December
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30th, 1999 from Welch, Oklahoma. They are both classified as endangered missing.
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This is True Crime Garage. This is the case of the missing Welch girls. The Freeman family lived in a trailer
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home outside of Welch, Oklahoma and the family consisted of parents Danny and Kathy Freeman and their 16-year-old
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daughter Ashley. On December 29th, 1999, the family was celebrating Ashley's 16th
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birthday. Yeah, and like a typical girl thing, she's going to have her best friend
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spend the night and her best friend is Laura Bible. Yes, they are both 16 years old by this
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point. They are lifelong friends. Both were very good students. Ashley was a basketball player, Laura was a
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cheerleader and both of them were very well liked. So, Ashley and Laura went with Kathy Freeman who took the two
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girls out to dinner. Some have stated that they went to a Pizza Hut, others said that it was Big Bill's Barbecue,
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but regardless, they go out to dinner that evening. They also picked up feed for the
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Freeman's livestock and water from Kathy's mom's house. After dinner, they went to their local
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Walmart store. There, Ashley met her boyfriend Jeremy Hurst. Jeremy gave Ashley a silver chain with a
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heart-shaped pendant that also contained her birthstone. This was her birthday gift. And then after the Walmart, Kathy,
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Ashley and Laura all went back to the Freeman's home and Jeremy joined them as well.
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Laura already spent the night the night before at the Freeman's house, but since
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it's getting dark, they're going to stop by her family's house to see if it's okay if she spends the night again.
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Yeah, it was it was going to be for one night, turns into two nights because Laura's parents do not let her drive
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after dark. She's already driving by this time. Her car is parked at the Freeman house. Now, they drop by just to
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make sure they'll be okay because it's well after dark by this point. And we can assume that they're on winter
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break at the at this point. Now, back at the Freeman home, Jeremy Hurst, the boyfriend, he says that while
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he was there, he didn't think anything was abnormal. He didn't see anything out of place. Uh he says that he left the
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Freeman home around 9:30 p.m. But Danny, the father, he had some relatives there
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at the Freeman home, and one of the relatives said that Jeremy left closer to 10:30 p.m. So, about an hour later
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than Jeremy remembers. Yeah, but as we know with eyewitness accounts, they can be off by a little
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bit. Both of the girls the next day had things that they had to do. Ashley was going to take her driver's test, and
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Laura had scheduled a dentist appointment for the following morning. Well, the following morning around 5:30
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a.m., a passing motorist reported a fire in the vicinity of the Freeman's trailer.
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Mhm. When fire and police first responders first showed up to to find the trailer
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ablaze, they put out the fire, and inside on the bed, they found the body of a female.
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They would learn that this is the body of Kathy Freeman, and they learn that she was not killed by the fire. She had
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been shot in the head before the fire. So, now we have a dead mother, and we have a missing father, and we have the
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missing two teenagers. Yes. Laura and Ashley. The sheriff's department, they're going
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to start investigating, and they have a theory. They immediately have a theory, and their theory is that Danny Freeman
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probably lost it, and he shot his wife, he set the trailer on fire, and he took off with both of the 16-year-old girls.
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Now, he he was known to have a temper. And he had a few run-ins with the sheriff's department. We'll get to that
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in a minute. The next day, Laura's parents, Jay and Lorene Bible, they are at the scene of the fire and the murder.
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And they are looking amongst the rubble for clues regarding the girls' whereabouts.
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Mhm. They see the Freeman family dog. This is a Rottweiler. Uh so, a very big dog. And
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the dog is kind of laying on a collapsed portion of the trailer. And around the dog, or as some have
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suggested, underneath of the dog, Jay spots something, and it's clear to Jay that he is looking at the dead body of a
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man. The body of Danny Freeman. Always been super fascinating to me how in tune with the world and surroundings
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dogs are. Well, the this crazy thing here is that Laura Bible's parents, they could tell
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that Danny did not die as a result of the fire, either, because as they described it, in quote, he did not have
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anything from the upper teeth all the way to the top of his head. That portion of the face was totally gone.
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Jesus. Now, the first question So, gunshot blast to the to the face, yes. And the first
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question that we have to ask ourselves is, how did the police and the firefighters miss the body of Danny? You
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know, and does this make you think that they could have overlooked the bodies of
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the two 16-year-old girls, as well? Well, and then obviously that the public has access to this crime scene.
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Yeah, we have a situation where the Bibles were up there looking for clues about their daughters and her friend.
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And the thing is here, the once they call and report that they found the body of Danny, they get a little pushback
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from law enforcement stating that, you know, we've been over that crime scene, and you must be mistaken. Well, what
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took place I guess is that Yeah, we're mistaken. We just saw a guy with his face blown off.
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They they showed up and they put out the fire. And this probably took a good deal
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of time. But after that, once they're looking amongst the the rubble and the debris, they find the body of of Kathy.
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They failed to find Danny's body, but they leave the crime scene around 5:30 to 6:00 p.m. that night. Now, keep in
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mind it's the winter months, so it's getting dark about that same time. Right. There was a good chance that they may
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not have found it uh Just due to time. By the Right. So, by the time they get the fire out,
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you know, the sun is setting, and they find the one body, but let's So, let's not, you know, jump down law
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enforcement's throats too quick. Maybe it's like, well, now it's dark. We're just going to stop. We'll start again in
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the morning. Exactly, but I don't think they planned on starting again in the morning because
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they released the crime scene. They they They leave the area. Well, that's that's an error.
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That's irresponsible. Now, the Now, the Bybles are up there looking for stuff. They find Danny. And
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also talking about a very very small community. Extremely remote area as well. It's like
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six 600 people live there. Yeah, so I mean, let's just say under a thousand. We know for sure under a
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thousand. Mhm. So, the Bybles are up there looking, and now once they get pushback
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from law enforcement, uh law enforcement wants to take the crime scene back. However, by this point, the Bybles are
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up there with a bunch of their friends and family that are assisting them looking through the debris. And they're
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actually lifting up heavy objects, you know, refrigerators, beds. Uh they're looking for anywhere that these girls
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might have hid and maybe passed away in the fire. Uh hold up a second. That's definitely
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not what they're thinking. They're thinking if they died in that house, it's not from a fire. They were
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murdered, just like the other two victims. Well, and they're also freaking out because all of the cars are still there
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in front of the Freeman home. And we're talking about a big stretch of land, too, you know, so there's a lot of area
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and ground to cover when you're when you're conducting the search. But one thing that I found interesting was that
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the Bybles had said to law enforcement, you know, all of the cars are still here. Have you checked the vehicles?
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They claim that that law enforcement tells them, "No, we we didn't we haven't checked the vehicles yet." And of
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course, you know, the Bybles and and their family members and friends are there wondering, "What kind of search is
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this? You missed Danny the first day. Right. And then you've not even thought to
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check the vehicles. Could these girls be in the vehicles? Could they be in the trunk of one of these cars?"
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Well, I mean, again, let's not jump down law enforcement too much Sorry. because you're you're there with your
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friends and family touching all the debris. Mhm. That's a crime scene. There's two
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murdered victims, and you just contaminated that. So, good luck, you know, if you do find somebody
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responsible, good luck having enough evidence to convict them. Well, let's talk about Danny's run-in
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with the law real quick, right? Mhm. Uh and to do this, we're going to have to introduce Shane Freeman. Shane was
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was Ashley's older brother. Mhm. And deceased now. Yeah, and we'll have to go back in time
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a little to tell this story. Um in 1998, Shane was experiencing behavioral problems. The family was ordered to
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participate in a counseling program. This was after Shane stole his uncle's pickup truck. Now, I do want to be kind
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of clear here because I've heard this story a few different ways. Unless Shane was out stealing multiple vehicles,
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um I've heard it reported that he had stolen the uncle's truck or he had taken the grandparents' vehicle.
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Right. Um maybe it's the one one in the same. I don't know, but for whatever reason, he
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took this vehicle. That's what teenagers like to say, "borrowing." Yeah, and now there's there's another
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story that has a few different perspectives, let's say, on it. Um regarding this vehicle being stolen,
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Danny calls it in and he reports his son Shane as missing. At the same time that
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the vehicle is reported as stolen. Mhm. Now, Shane is picked up for this. Now, during this situation,
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the Shane has been abused, okay? It's obvious to the deputy that that arrest him that that Shane has been abused.
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Physically abused, like beat up. That's one way that the story goes. The other way that the story goes was that
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Shane was at school and a school counselor or a coach had noticed that his his buttocks area was was bleeding
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and he was extremely bruised up uh to the point where it wasn't just, you know, Well, that's
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it wasn't just mom or dad with a little discipline to to straighten Shane out. It was it looked like an obvious beating
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type situation. And like we said before, the father, Danny, was known to have a temper, so
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maybe his parenting was getting a little out of control. Yeah, and this was not the only
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situation where we saw his temper flare up. Um back in 1985, Well, hold on. Hold on. We're assuming
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it was Danny that was disciplining him too hard or maybe just being a drunk and beating his child?
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Well, we're we assuming here? We're assuming that it was Danny because he would be charged with with child
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abuse in the situation. And what what law enforcement would contend that that this was excessive force that Danny had
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used. Where Danny is saying, "No, you're you're taking a family situation and you're blowing it way out of
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proportion." Mhm. Um but again, this is not the first time that his temper has got him into trouble
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because back in 1985, he got Danny got in trouble for beating up his father-in-law. They had some kind
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of what sounds almost like a minor disagreement, gets, you know, gets crazy and out of hand, and Danny ends up
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getting charged with that. And that's the evidence of Danny having a temper problem.
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Yeah, and after Danny is charged with abusing his son in 1998, Shane does not want to return to his parents' home. He
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ends up staying briefly with the with Ashley's family, with the Bible family. Mhm.
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And in early January 1999, the Bible family filed a complaint with authorities stating that Shane took some
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of Laura's belongings and her money, and that he also stole several of the Bibles' firearms.
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Well, you know, no good deed goes unpunished. Come to our house, steal our stuff.
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Yeah, he takes he takes some of Laura's money, he takes the firearms. Now the police are looking for Shane, and he
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ends up taking another vehicle. This is somebody in the Freeman family. And while he's out on the run, well, he this
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is very strange. the other car, Mhm. he does it again, he doesn't steal somebody else's car, he he takes one of
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his own family members' cars. Correct. And while the while the law enforcement are looking for him, he he
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tries to pull over a female driver. And the the female does not believe that this person is a sheriff or a police
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officer. Um you know, he's he's 19 years old. Uh he probably doesn't look anything like law enforcement. And she
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calls 911, and she reports the situation stating that, you know, there's this guy
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saying he's he's law enforcement, trying to pull me over. I'm not going to pull over. I'm going to
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drive somewhere where I feel safe before I pull over. So well, interesting, too, because cell
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phones aren't really super popular in '99. And police are already looking for this
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guy. Mhm. So, what ends up happening is the the vehicle that he has taken, it it
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eventually breaks down. And law enforcement locate him on the side of a road. When they encounter him,
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they, you know, they're they're doing the traditional things, but keep in mind, Shane's got firearms with him by
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this point. Right, and they know he does. Yeah, and Cuz they reported stolen. He had told some people, you know,
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friends and whatnot, that he was suicidal and that he was thinking about doing suicide by cop. Well, in this
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situation Suicide by cop. Yes. Mhm. And in this situation, he ends up reaching for the gun. There's two
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different stories here. One story is that he pulled the gun on the officer. The other story is that he was reaching
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for the gun. What ends up happening is that the officer shoots Shane and he kills him.
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And what will be disputed though, is what was the interaction between the officer and Shane.
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This is Oklahoma law enforcement officer David Hayes. He shot and killed Shane on
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January 8th, 1999. Now, the incident was investigated and Hayes's actions were found to be
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justified. David Hayes acted in self-defense. The Freemans believed that Shane was attempting to run away from
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Hayes at the time of his death. Several of their family members believed that the autopsy results proved that Shane
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was killed as he he his back was turned to the officer. Right, so the bullet entry would have
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been in Shane's back. We can't say that for certain. What we can say is that the family members
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believed that his back was turned, that the incident was investigated and it was
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ruled to be a justified shooting. Now, this is what's going to bring on this whole kind of thing that's going on
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between Danny Freeman and law enforcement because he believes that his son was murdered by the police. Now,
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Danny reportedly inquired about the location of David Hayes' residence. This was 1 month after his son was killed.
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Investigators apparently believed that Danny was planning some kind of revenge against Shane's death. The Freemans
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claim that several officers vehicles were parked in front of their trailer after after he had inquired about their
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residence. The way that I've heard that this has gone down was that that Danny would go and he would park his vehicle
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in front of the officer's home. Mhm. And he would kind of follow around his family members from time to time. And
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this is mind you, like we said, this is a small town. There's not a lot of people there. These things don't go
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unnoticed. And so what ends up happening is we have a situation where it looks like Danny might be harassing law
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enforcement or their families. And then the Freemans believe that in turn law enforcement starts harassing them by
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parking their vehicles in front of the Freeman home. Well, right. Go ahead. And obviously
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that law enforcement has they have to protect themselves and they have to protect their family. On the flip side
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of things though, Danny just lost his son. Mhm. And even if it was based off his own
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actions that he, you know, wanted to have suicide by a cop or or you know, he was I'm going to pull out a gun and
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they're going to shoot me or maybe he's just going to pull out the gun to shoot at the officer.
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He he lost his son. You know, and and so that grief is a lot to deal with. I mean, you shouldn't go
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around harassing people, but it's like I I kind of feel for him on that on that angle.
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Now, law enforcement, they start following Danny basically everywhere he's going. Maybe looking for any reason
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to pull him over or give him a citation or arrest him for something. Uh but he believes that he's being harassed by
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this point. To the point where he informs his brother, as well as other family members, stating that if anything
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ever would were to happen to me, Mhm. um you know, look at the sheriff department. They're they're the ones
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that that are harassing me. And you know, he also gave a statement that he said to the fact that when he
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was uh in some kind of verbal altercation with law enforcement, that they had told
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him that they could do whatever they wanted to him and Danny's family. That was nothing that they could do to stop
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them. All right. Well, and But this is second-hand, you know, we don't know that this this interaction
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actually took place or those exact words were said. Well, we've all been pulled over by, you
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know, some jackwagon officer, right? That's just running their mouth, you know, over nothing. So, whether or
00:22:04
not a police officer was in an altercation, you know, verbal altercation with Danny and he's saying,
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"Hey, we'll do whatever we want. We are the law. Yeah, I am the law." Whatever it is, that doesn't necessarily mean
00:22:18
that they are responsible for these deaths. Well, we have this situation though here, Captain, where 2 months after the
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death of Shane. Now, Danny Freeman, he's got to go on trial for the child abuse charges. And this takes place in March
00:22:32
of 1999. The jury ended up they deadlocked on the situation because they asked the judge
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if they could order Danny to attend counseling rather than to send him to jail or to prison.
00:22:46
Right. Uh the judge says, "No, you can't do that. This is This is the sentence. He's He's
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either guilty and he's going to face these charges and get sentenced in this way, or he's not guilty." And I think
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this is a tough thing for the jury to to make a call on here because we got a we
00:23:05
got a case where we don't have the number one witness the the the the kid that was
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was supposedly abused. Um we don't have him there to testify as to what took place in that situation and now you have
00:23:20
to question a parent's you know, where's the line when you discipline your child? Um so what they
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end up stating is that they he's acquitted of these charges because they wanted to send him to counseling. But
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the judge would not allow it. After the death of Kathy Freeman, her father and mother, they were telling people that,
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you know, Danny not only did he have this bad temper, but he was also abusive to his wife and to both of his children.
00:23:49
Um so this leads us to some of the early theories in this case. One of those theories being that after years of
00:23:58
physical abuse Ashley with the help of her friend, they shoot the parents with one of the parents' own guns with their
00:24:07
guns and they flee the area. The next theory it is very similar to that but that the two girls left town
00:24:15
with two men or boys that that may have assisted them in the attack on Ashley's parents.
00:24:22
The third theory that we should discuss here is the police killed Danny and then
00:24:27
his family and set the fire to destroy evidence. Theory number four is that law enforcement wasn't involved and Danny
00:24:34
was targeted due to drug activity. Theory number five is it the girls were the actual target that the motivation
00:24:41
for the attack was abduction and that the parents were killed and the fire was set just to simply hide evidence.
00:24:49
And the final theory is that someone that knew the family had killed and abducted the girls. The this would be
00:24:56
any example that you can imagine, but you could also consider possibly the boyfriend Jeremy Hurst who was there
00:25:02
that night, as well as relatives of Danny's that were at the trailer that night. So those are the the six theories
00:25:09
that they're working off of early into this investigation. I think we kind of need to look at this
00:25:14
evidence to point us in the right direction and what theory makes the most sense. Let's get into that right after
00:25:20
this quick beer break. All right, we're back. Cheers, mates. Make sure you support our sponsors cuz
00:25:43
they support us. All right, let's get to this evidence. Yes, so we both we know that both Danny
00:25:50
and Kathy had died of a result of gunshot wounds. Mhm. The medical examiner determined that
00:25:56
Danny's right collarbone had been fractured prior to the fatal shot. The coroner also determined that Kathy
00:26:04
died approximately 5:00 a.m. that morning. And of course, investigators believe that the fire was intentionally set in
00:26:13
an attempt to destroy evidence of the crimes. Now, regarding the family itself, regarding the Freeman family and their
00:26:21
home, Lorraine Bible told reporters that Ashley Freeman had been saving her money
00:26:27
to purchase her first vehicle when she turned 16 in December of 1999. Lorraine said that she believed that
00:26:34
Ashley had accumulated $1,200 in her savings account. Now, Jeremy Hurst, the boyfriend, said that Ashley actually
00:26:43
didn't have a savings account. Um but Ashley had told him that she had saved between $3,000 and $4,000 for her first
00:26:54
vehicle. She was employed part-time at Roscoe's, which is a convenience store in Welch.
00:27:01
Uh Jeremy went on to say that that, you know, she didn't have a bank account and
00:27:05
she kept her money sealed in Tupperware in a Tupperware container in the family's freezer.
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Authorities were unable to locate any evidence of the cash after the fire. Lorraine stated that Ashley and Danny
00:27:20
had been arguing earlier in the month regarding the vehicle. You know, she wanted to purchase a certain vehicle.
00:27:27
He had a different one in mind and they were not agreeing. We've all kind of been there, you know, the teenager has
00:27:34
earned their own money. They want to make their own decisions with their money and, you know, dad is disagreeing
00:27:40
with her. Well, some of that could just be telling a tall tale as well, you know, like well, first of
00:27:47
all, you're telling your friends' parents, well, I got savings account. Well, where's the evidence of that? You know,
00:27:54
now that they're missing. And then on top of that, you're telling the boyfriend, well, you got I ain't got
00:28:00
three to four grand, which where's the evidence that you had any money? Mhm. Um the the other thing here, too, which
00:28:08
I want to kind of talk about this for a little bit because because it's very unclear. Now, the authorities at some
00:28:15
point disclosed that there were rumors that Ashley had been sexually abused, but they were unable to confirm these
00:28:23
rumors. By the by the by the father? That's why I wanted to talk about this because it nowhere does it claim to
00:28:30
state by who. You know, could it have been could it have been her father, her her brother, could have been a family
00:28:37
friend or or you know, somebody at the school? Right. Um when you say sexually abused, you
00:28:43
know, your your your imagination wonders immediately who could it be? But we don't have anybody to point the finger
00:28:50
at. The other thing I I kind of thought about here in this situation was we have you have a whole, you know, this
00:28:57
town of 600 people and a day goes by where the town the people of the town they're under the belief that the father
00:29:05
killed the mother, abducted his daughter and her friend. Well, is that long enough? That's got to be long enough for
00:29:13
the the people in the town to start you know, talking about these rumors. Well, if he abducted those two girls, he
00:29:19
must have been sexually abusing her. Um and I I wonder if I think it's a little irresponsible of
00:29:26
law enforcement to say that there were rumors of this, uh but we're unable to confirm these
00:29:32
rumors. Again, a very small community, so not probably the best or most uh advanced
00:29:38
law enforcement unit in the in the world here. And that's causes a lot of problems cuz one you leave the crime
00:29:46
scene without knowing how many victims are there. Mhm. And then then you don't close off that
00:29:52
crime scene and you allow people to come in there and contaminate it. And then on top of that, now we got this
00:30:00
third thing where you you're creating rumors. Right. And and you're you're fueling the
00:30:06
fire, really is what you're doing. And and But you're creative you're creating a
00:30:10
motive. And what I'm saying is that the birth of those rumors could very well be that
00:30:15
because they didn't discover Danny's body until the following day. Well, and right, but that's if those
00:30:20
rumors are established then or if they're established after because if you establish that uh well, there's rumors
00:30:27
that she was uh sexually abused. You're creating a motive on why the girls would want to kill the parents.
00:30:36
Mhm. And I feel like whoever's establishing Look, Well, said it before. There's been
00:30:41
several cases that we covered and oddly people will establish alibis. They're creating their own alibi.
00:30:49
And when somebody starts creating their own alibi, that to me, that's a a sign of guilt. Right?
00:30:56
Mhm. And so it's odd that on the other side of the spectrum, when people are creating a narrative for motive
00:31:04
for you to look at some other individual. Right. And to me, that's a shade of guilt.
00:31:10
So you're what to be clear, what you're saying is that the the sheriff's department by stating that there's there
00:31:18
are rumors of her being sexually abused, that that's almost creating an alibi for
00:31:24
the sheriff's department because you're presenting a whole different theory that
00:31:27
does not involve the sheriffs having committed any crimes. Correct. And And first of all, it's just
00:31:34
very irresponsible that you're stating, well, there's rumors. Don't state rumors. You're the law
00:31:40
enforcement. State facts. State evidence. I wish we knew exactly how this went down. And I'll tell you why because
00:31:47
could it be something as simple as as the sheriff's departments being interviewed. They're asked by a
00:31:53
reporter, hey, there are there have been rumors that Ashley was sexually abused.
00:31:58
Right. And the sheriff simply says, we have heard those rumors. Right. And that changes the whole
00:32:02
Then you have somebody later going on the record stating that the sheriff's department says that there were rumors
00:32:09
of her being sexually abused. When really they're just acknowledging that they have heard those rumors. I I see
00:32:14
what you're saying with them establishing an alibi. I don't know that it's that for me because for me it it
00:32:20
for me it seems like there was opportunity if that kind of stuff was going down um with how close Ashley was
00:32:28
with Laura, they spoke on the phone all of the time and it seems to me like Laureen uh Laura's mom seemed to know a
00:32:36
lot of what was going on in the Freeman household. Well, she knew what she was told.
00:32:42
Mhm. And there was also that that mandatory counseling that took place as well re- regarding
00:32:49
um the situation with Shane. So, what I'm getting at is I think there was opportunity for that to come out where I
00:32:55
I feel like these are rumors that were just kind of created by the townspeople during that time period that they felt
00:33:01
that that she was abducted by her father. And you We know how these rumors go, right? It's It's like the the
00:33:08
never-ending game of telephone. Now you got 600 people involved where if I say, "You know what? I bet you he was
00:33:14
sexually abusing her and that's why he took her and abducted her." And then 24 hours later we find out
00:33:19
Well, he's dead. Poor Poor Danny, he died, too. You know, he was murdered and he was killed, too.
00:33:25
We know that's not true, but that doesn't immediately put out the fire on those rumors.
00:33:29
Well, okay. So, answer me these couple questions. One, how does how did his collarbone get broken?
00:33:36
Right. Like do we know? I mean, is that reported? Uh that this case is difficult to cover
00:33:42
because there wasn't It's such a small town and such small community that there's just not a lot of, you know,
00:33:48
information as far as it goes on the internet. So, the way But But how But cuz there's multiple
00:33:53
ways that that could have been broken. I mean, it could have been That collarbone could have been broken.
00:33:58
It's not too difficult to break a collarbone. No. It could be broke by a fist. It could be
00:34:04
a butt of a shotgun. Um And then what What is the evidence that points of what kind of guns were they
00:34:11
killed with? Right. Well, they've not the law enforcement has not disclosed what kind
00:34:17
of gun they were shot with. Of course. They They've They've held that back as well as they have admitted that there
00:34:23
was an accelerant used to start the fire. This wasn't an accidental fire that happened after the fact.
00:34:29
Mhm. Uh they know that an accelerant was used, but they've also not stated what what in fact that was. Now, the thing
00:34:36
here is if you were to be considering that the girls did it uh, or were involved in it,
00:34:43
you know, we have Okay, we have a situation where the Freemans, they had a lot of firearms in that home. They could
00:34:49
have under that situation or scenario, they could have been killed with one of their own firearms.
00:34:55
Well, on the other problem there is they're avid hunters. And the gun laws were different also
00:35:02
back then. So, how many guns were in the house that were weren't registered? I mean, there'd be no way of knowing. Cuz
00:35:09
cuz the two people that would know, they're dead. Yeah. So, if there's a shotgun missing, we
00:35:14
wouldn't know. So, if you have if you get the ballistics, right? If you if you're
00:35:19
trying to test to to confirm if they were killed with one of their own firearms, you wouldn't be able if that
00:35:25
firearm was not found in that home, you couldn't confirm that one of their own firearms were used because you would
00:35:32
assume that if you didn't find it that it was either taken from the scene or that the perpetrators brought their own
00:35:38
firearms with them. Let's talk about the the Freeman the house real quick, okay?
00:35:43
So, the Freemans trailer, it did not have running water. Um, it was primarily heated by a wood-burning stove that was
00:35:51
located in the living room. Um, the family, as you had said, was described as avid hunters
00:35:57
uh, and outdoor enthusiast who enjoyed living in a remote location. This was a very remote location. The trailer was
00:36:05
equipped with a telephone and electricity. Uh, there were numerous firearms stockpiled inside the home and Ashley
00:36:13
assisted with hunting food. The family would go out and sometimes hunt their own food food. Danny enjoyed walking
00:36:21
outside on their property behind the mobile home. Uh, he was a collector of arrowheads.
00:36:29
Um and his relative stated that he had an extensive collection of items that he had found that were rumored to be
00:36:37
valuable. Here's another one of these rumors. But we don't you don't have Well, that's causing a motive of the
00:36:43
idea that somebody came in to break into the house to steal valuables and they killed two
00:36:49
people in the process. And possibly stealing the cash that uh young Ashley was keeping in the freezer.
00:36:55
Which I would argue that that is more likely to happen if you live in a remote area.
00:37:01
I know that's going to sound maybe a little strange to some people, but I'm serious. It's like when especially if
00:37:06
you I've lived, you know, my house you're exactly right. You are exactly Go ahead. Sorry.
00:37:11
But it you know, my house was out of the city a little bit. And if somebody's coming onto my property to steal
00:37:17
something, it could end up very bad for for me or them. Mhm. So, that that's all I'm saying is if you
00:37:25
And you also it's such a small town that you'd go, "Well, they're an avid avid hunter. If I'm going to rob this person,
00:37:34
we know how this is going down. This is this is this is robbery by force." Mhm. And again, but then that also goes with
00:37:41
the creating the motive because if he has drug activity, then maybe it's like, "Well,
00:37:47
uh you know, he has a bunch of guns. Maybe he has some drugs there. Maybe he has some drug money there."
00:37:53
You know. Yeah, and we should talk about this drug activity because there's there's several
00:37:59
Yeah, so it's not just rumor. Right. There's a there's a lot of different stories about what drug
00:38:04
activity could have been going on in in the area. So, it it's believed that Danny was himself a drug user.
00:38:13
Um there What but there's different kinds of drugs. Yeah, and it's believed it's it's pretty
00:38:17
widely believed that he grew marijuana somewhere on that property for his own personal use.
00:38:23
Mhm. Okay, so that's that's what's widely believed. There are some other things that come into play here, though. There
00:38:30
are some people that state that he was he was selling marijuana. Right. That he was in cahoots with somebody
00:38:38
else and they had a little drug operation where they were both moving and potentially growing marijuana.
00:38:44
Um there was one report that stated that inside the trailer and I want to be very clear about this.
00:38:51
One single report out of all the little reports out there, there's one single report that says that they found
00:38:57
evidence of drug manufacturing. Which to me it it it using those words is completely different than growing
00:39:04
marijuana. Unless unless unless you're claiming that mother nature is your manufacturer of
00:39:10
marijuana. So what that sounds like to me is that they must have found some kind of drug equipment, you know, some
00:39:17
kind of creating these drugs equipment. Now, I don't think that he was running any kind of meth operation because
00:39:23
Why not? We've seen Well, because this is just my belief. I have no evidence of such. But
00:39:30
we have seen where where certain people will use certain terminology and certain words and then
00:39:37
when you dig down deep and you find out exactly what they're talking about well,
00:39:42
they've kind of they've kind of stretched it a bit, right? They've kind of embellished a
00:39:47
little bit where evidence of drug manufacturing could be something as simple as that they found a small
00:39:53
digital scale somewhere in the trailer that might not have had anything to do with drugs at all. But but
00:40:01
Right, I get I get your point. See where I'm going with this? If you if you find a digital scale and you find a
00:40:07
stack of baggies, that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm manufacturing drugs. Well, right, but they could be used for
00:40:14
pot as well. I look, if you're growing your own pot to smoke it, I I got nothing against you. And if you have a
00:40:19
little extra and you're selling a baggy here or there to your buddy, that's not To me,
00:40:25
that's not You're not a drug dealer. Mhm. You're just kind of helping out your buddies. That's not like drug operation.
00:40:33
But, one report. Now, let's go Let's go Let's Let's dive into this a little bit because it's 1999.
00:40:40
This is not a wide, uh, you know, it's not this epidemic like it is now. You know, heroin and crystal meth and all
00:40:47
that stuff and these rural areas. Now, it's killing the It's killing the country.
00:40:53
So, so maybe there's only one report because a lot of that crystal meth stuff is kind
00:41:00
of household items and you might not really know what it was. That's true. Yep. Also, accelerant
00:41:09
Well, this stuff is very flammable. Mhm. So, was that what was used for the accelerant? It's almost like because of
00:41:17
the lack of evidence or the lack of them collecting the evidence or the lack of them presenting the evidence to the
00:41:23
public, it just becomes more question after more question and we can speculate on that all day. But, I But,
00:41:31
to me, a family that's not doing so well financially wants to move out to the country, which
00:41:38
nothing wrong with that. But, maybe the the father was also using this as an opportunity
00:41:44
to make ends meet. Yeah. Like, we're going to move out onto some land on into this trailer, but because
00:41:52
we're doing that, I'm going to have some job opportunities and that's going to be
00:41:56
drug activity. Mhm. Yeah, and Kathy was the breadwinner. Um, she had a good job. Um,
00:42:02
Danny, from my understanding, was kind was often unemployed. Right. Uh, usually between jobs and, like you
00:42:09
said, maybe, uh, maybe selling a little dope here or there was was a way to make
00:42:14
up for that. Well, this is what I find Okay, first, you're the breadwinner. You're the mom. This
00:42:20
guy has a shitty temper, you know, and we know that he's abusive to to your son, so chances are he's abusive
00:42:27
to you. Just leave. You know what I mean? To find somebody else. Some And I understand, you're
00:42:34
you're in town of 600 people, but move to another town. Yeah, they were originally from the
00:42:40
neighboring town, which had like over 6,000 people in it. I believe they moved there just a few
00:42:45
years before this whole incident went down. But yeah, I'm with you. It seems like
00:42:51
But again, there's different dynamics to every family, every relationship, but it
00:42:56
from the outside looking in, it definitely seems like the Freeman family was odd and dysfunctional.
00:43:04
Well, I'm just saying that she could love a winner with money as much as she can this loser with nothing. That's all
00:43:11
I'm saying. Okay, so let's you know, before we move on from the evidence and start seeing how that might
00:43:16
apply to these different theories and maybe kind of ruling some of them out as we go.
00:43:23
One more thing regarding the evidence though, the police did state that remember we said that the the Freemans
00:43:29
had telephone service to the trailer. Mhm. They did state that there were no outgoing phone calls from the Freemans
00:43:35
trailer late that night or during the early morning before the fire was set. And there's no report by anybody that we
00:43:42
know of that they had a cell phone of any kind. Correct. Correct. And the thing here is
00:43:47
too, you know, we stated that all of the vehicles were out front that were located on the property. None of the
00:43:54
vehicles were missing. But regarding Laura's car that was still there, the keys were found in the ignition. This is
00:44:01
probably probably just means that she never took them out of the car. The the house was quite a bit of a ways
00:44:08
off of the road. There might not be any need to do so, but she did have a purse and she had approximately $200 in that
00:44:16
purse. The purse was located inside the trailer after this incident took place. So,
00:44:23
where you have money that that is rumored to have been in the freezer, a substantial amount of money, depending
00:44:29
on who you talk to, between 1,200 and 4,000 dollars, where that is not found, um, we also have a situation where
00:44:37
there's money found in a in a purse, uh, $200 that could have been taken that was
00:44:42
left behind. Yeah, but here's my issue with that is law enforcement and a lot of people
00:44:47
looking into this case like to say, "Well, there's $200 left in a purse, so there that proves that proves right
00:44:55
there that there was a robbery." Well, that doesn't prove crap. That just proves it wasn't a robbery for just
00:45:03
money or, you know, random belongings. This could have been a robbery just for drugs or just for drug money.
00:45:12
Mhm. And so that doesn't really prove anything. Just because there was money left somewhere.
00:45:18
That's all I'm putting out there. It's just time and time again when you see this stuff about this case, well,
00:45:24
there's $200 left out of her purse, so therefore that definitely wasn't a robbery.
00:45:29
I don't think anybody's saying that. Because because everyone's saying that there's
00:45:33
Nobody. That's what is reported all the time. It's every almost every video that you
00:45:38
ever see made on this thing is like, "Well, there's $200 left, so chances are it wasn't a robbery."
00:45:44
It just wasn't a good robbery. Maybe they made off with the 1,200 or 4,000 dollars that was in the freezer and
00:45:50
thought, "Well, this is all the money they got. I'm peace. I'm out of here." Right. Or like I said, I mean, if he had
00:45:55
some drug activity, then that's why that's why people would be there, you know, for
00:46:02
his drugs and for his drug money. Mhm. So, do you do should we go back through these theories that we were
00:46:08
Well, no, no. I think let's stay on this $200 right now, right? Okay. I think that $200 to me
00:46:15
means uh it starts ruling out the idea for me that the girls would be involved. Right. And that's why I asked if you
00:46:23
wanted to go back through the theories cuz theory number one is that after years of physical abuse Ashley, with the
00:46:29
help of Laura that they shoot the parents and with one of the guns that they find in the home and they together
00:46:37
they flee the area to go off and live wonderful lives elsewhere away from this you know, and I'll say quote unquote
00:46:46
abusive father. Well, I think you can say abusive father just on the evidence of physical abuse.
00:46:52
Not sexual abuse, but we can definitely say that there is enough evidence that shows that this guy
00:46:58
He abused Shane. Where we we have evidence of that. I don't know that we have evidence that he abused Ashley, is
00:47:04
what I mean what I meant by that. We have all the speculation or all the the accounts brought up by um
00:47:11
the you know her grand- her grandpa I think calling somebody an abuser of it it's a very
00:47:19
powerful label to to put on somebody. And and I see what you're getting at. Half of me agrees with you, but the
00:47:26
other half of me I'm talking about of you is smart and the other half is is And the smart half the smart half of me
00:47:33
is is stating that in this situation we're talking about a situation where Shane no longer exists.
00:47:39
Yeah, I understand. We're talking about a situation where we're going to say did Ashley kill or
00:47:43
participate in the murder of her own parents because she was being abused by her father
00:47:50
is a very powerful statement. Yeah. And I don't think that speculation would would point me in that direction strong
00:47:57
enough for me to believe that. I would want hardcore evidence that he was in fact abusing specifically Ashley.
00:48:04
Okay, so what's your long-winded point? What are you saying? point here is that I don't know why the
00:48:08
smart half of me cannot fix the creek in this chair that I'm sitting on. Every time I move it so I apologize everybody
00:48:15
out there if you're hearing weird noises. It's it's me. It's coming from his ass.
00:48:20
That's That's That's where the creek noise is coming from. area. So I didn't have a long-winded
00:48:25
point. I think you got me upset because we're calling him a specific specific abuse.
00:48:32
But but regarding this theory so Okay, so this this first theory, yeah, right. It
00:48:38
doesn't add up. It doesn't. You're exactly right. Because and I think that's why we bring
00:48:43
up the $200 in Laura's purse. It seems strange to me that Laura would leave behind her own money.
00:48:51
Or or her own purse. Correct. Even if you wanted to try to make it look like you were abducted. I
00:48:57
don't know that kids These are kids, right? I know they're 16 years old. I know they're good students. I know that
00:49:02
they are smart young ladies. The thing here is though I don't know that that a kid would come up with this wild theory
00:49:11
that you know what? We can kill these two and we'll take off and maybe we'll get lucky and they'll think we were
00:49:16
abducted. So leave behind your purse. You know, I And furthermore Well Furthermore none of the vehicles none of
00:49:23
the family's vehicles or Laura's vehicle was taken. So by that by that point alone you can cross off theory one in my
00:49:32
opinion because now you have to have outside help. There has to be some form of trans- transportation getting you out
00:49:40
of the area. Well, look the purse behind not that big of a deal. Leave the purse behind.
00:49:46
The cash is big. You need the cash. Right and you know, but I don't know. Was there cash in the
00:49:52
freezer? I'm going to say not. Look, we we've all I look, the other question I have, too, which might seem a lot pretty
00:49:59
silly to everybody, but but how long was she dating her boyfriend? Uh I don't know.
00:50:05
And the only reason why I want to know is because sometimes in the initial stages, you kind of just,
00:50:12
you know, over exaggerate maybe a little bit. Mhm. You know, I I've had that happen before.
00:50:16
I've been on a date where somebody's, you know, telling you what they do for a living, you know, and they kind of a
00:50:23
little bragadocious about it. And and I think And the And these are, you know, women in their 30s.
00:50:30
Right? So, what's a girl in their her six you know, she's 16 years old. Oh, I'm going to get a car. Well, what kind
00:50:36
of car you're going to get? Well, I'm going to get a nice one cuz Well, how do you got money for that? Well, I got a
00:50:41
couple thousand saved up. I got some cold hard cash in the freezer. Right. The thing here is though, Captain, okay,
00:50:47
so I want to uh I want to kind of present something that I was thinking about the other day. What
00:50:54
if I were to think that maybe Ashley killed her parents, um could could the tipping point or could
00:51:02
the trigger moment could that have been if she came home and discovered that all
00:51:07
of her hard-earned money that she had saved and saved and saved for her very first car that her father had taken it
00:51:14
from the freezer and went off and did something with the money? Mhm. Yeah, not Look, look, I see that.
00:51:22
Uh again, then you're going to drag you're going to drag your friend into this. Mhm.
00:51:27
And it's we're going on how many years now? Well, it's been 16 years, yeah. So, 16 years you've been in hiding
00:51:35
and your friend hasn't came forward. No, and the other thing, too, is it I think
00:51:40
if it was a based on the abuse, right? Mhm. Then here's what would happen or this is
00:51:46
my speculation. You're overcome with whatever, an embarrassment or whatever you're feeling, rage that your
00:51:57
father would be abusive towards you sexually or physically and you've had enough and and I'm not going to take
00:52:04
anymore and you snap and shoot your father. Mhm. How does that go on to shooting your
00:52:09
mother? Right. And then on top of that, then you have to light your house on fire.
00:52:15
I mean, other than you're covering up one one murder with another. Yeah, but I think for somebody that by
00:52:21
all accounts, you know, was a good kid, Right. you know, had something to live for, was
00:52:27
progressing in her own life, didn't seem like she had many problems, you know, she's celebrating a happy time, you
00:52:33
know, 16 is a a great time, you know? You're going to get your freedom, you're going to get
00:52:39
your independence, more independence. 16's a good time. So, I it's a snap and then on top of that, then you have to
00:52:46
have a friend going along with this and she's going to drop everything that's going on in her life and she's 16 and
00:52:52
has a bunch to live for, so she can just help you out now? It's, you know, it it doesn't seem too
00:52:59
likely. And then and then when you run away, you're going to forget the two $200?
00:53:04
Right. And I think that's what does it for you. All those things that you said plus the the other fact that they didn't
00:53:09
take a vehicle and they left the $200. You just you wouldn't do that. You wouldn't leave
00:53:15
behind a car, you wouldn't leave behind additional funds when you know you're planning on starting a whole new life
00:53:21
elsewhere because you got to run from these murders you committed. Yeah. there is nothing in the background of
00:53:29
either of these two young ladies. These were smart young ladies, honor students.
00:53:36
They were good, they you know, worked. Um it sounded like it sounds to me like Laura Bible's family life was probably
00:53:44
much different than Ashley Freeman's family life. It does sound to me though that Ashley Freeman was very close with
00:53:50
her mother. Even if she hated her home life or hated her father, she only had two more years to go to be out of that
00:53:58
house. And I I just don't see anything in their background to point toward them having committed this and taken off.
00:54:06
Yeah, because you you know uh we don't know what kind of gun they were shot with.
00:54:12
The thing that points towards them is that half the dude's face was missing. And to me that would be a
00:54:19
shotgun blast. To me a shotgun or a rifle would be something if she was going to use something I would assume
00:54:26
that she would use something that she was more familiar with. And I'm again just also assuming that she would be
00:54:32
more familiar with a rifle based on hunting. Um but but then you have to have the
00:54:39
cojones. You got to be one bad hombre. And I also shoot your father in the face with a with a rifle.
00:54:46
And keep in mind his his collarbone was broken. This almost points towards some kind of scuffle before he shot. Where I
00:54:54
would think, you know, if you're this situation, if you're going to shoot your parents, you're going to walk into
00:54:59
their bedroom in the middle of the night and shoot them in their sleep. You know,
00:55:02
that that's typically how these things go down. It wouldn't lead to some kind of altercation. So I think you can
00:55:07
scratch off the first theory that the two girls did it themselves and took off on their own. And that kind of helps us
00:55:14
scratch off theory number two as well because it's basically the same theory but that they they had the assistance of
00:55:21
one or two men or one or two boys that may have assisted in the attacks and that they left town with this person or
00:55:28
persons. What's your gut feeling on the boyfriend? I mean, I look you know, that he claims he left at
00:55:34
9:30. A lot of other people say, well, it's probably at 10:30. I I I that that doesn't bother me either
00:55:41
way. You know, if you're off a little bit, we're not talking about a detail. There was people there afterwards.
00:55:47
Right. So, to me that little detail is not, you know, he's not being nefarious and
00:55:52
trying to you know, cover his his ass, you know, but uh what's your gut feeling on this guy?
00:55:59
So, Jeremy Hurst, my gut feeling is I like him. Um I don't like him I don't like him as
00:56:04
a I don't like him as a suspect while I he I don't even know if he's attractive or not.
00:56:09
But the thing here is Captain, first of all, I like you said, doesn't bother me that he's off approximately an hour on
00:56:16
his time because the other dude that said he stayed later could be off on his time.
00:56:20
Right. Um what I think we have is a situation where he reports that he left their home
00:56:26
at at such and such time. He probably he's a child he's under 18, he goes straight home to his parents' house. His
00:56:34
time is probably accounted for. That's what I'm getting at. His time between and it's a small
00:56:39
window. It's not like these people this crime happened sometime in the week of this. No, this crime happened sometime
00:56:45
between let's say 10:30 p.m. and we believe the mom was killed at 5:00 a.m. the next morning.
00:56:52
Right. So, it's a small window. I believe his time was easily accounted for during the
00:56:56
course of that time. And on top of this going to seem kind of strange, but I'm going to say it anyway.
00:57:02
Go for it. The birthday gift that he purchased for his girlfriend. Uh-huh. You know, don't we all love that young
00:57:09
love, right? That's that's that's great. Those those high school romances that you have.
00:57:14
Yeah, watch where you're going with this. His birthday well, we were all I was in
00:57:18
high school once. When you were in high school? Yes. I don't know look, high school romances are okay when
00:57:24
you're in high school. longer participate in high school romance. Very good. Um but to me
00:57:30
need you around, Colonel. And and I'm playing to the ladies now, okay? Okay, ladies. Hey, how you doing?
00:57:36
Jeremy's birthday gift to his young girlfriend seems to me to be well thought out. That he didn't cut any
00:57:44
corners on this birthday gift. And what I mean by that, what did we say it was? A a silver chain with a heart-shaped
00:57:51
pendant that also contained her birthstone. Let me tell you, men as a whole, sorry men, now I'm not
00:57:58
now I'm playing against the men. Sorry, men. Especially when men are 16, 17, 18 years
00:58:03
old, we do not know what birthstone you have depending on what month you're he What I'm getting at is I think he he
00:58:12
put in good effort. He put put together a thoughtful gift. That tells me that I think he truly
00:58:18
cared for that young girl. And that I think that because of such, he wouldn't do anything to harm her family or harm
00:58:26
her. Yeah, but if he really cared about her that much, maybe he would harm the family and help her cover it up.
00:58:34
I don't know. But then he but then he stays in town. He doesn't leave with this this young
00:58:39
girl that he's Men have done some strange things for ladies before. But you point out a good a good reason
00:58:46
why I think that theory number two can be scratched off as well because okay, if they have the had the
00:58:52
assistance of a boy or boys or a couple of men or whatever, Mhm. where and who are these men and boys?
00:58:58
You know, wouldn't they be reported missing at some point as well? You're living in a town of 600 people.
00:59:04
Right, right. When two of them disappear, If there's another two missing, well, obvious, you know, so I think we can
00:59:11
scratch off theories number one and number two. All right, Colonel. Wait, scratch off some theories.
00:59:18
I'm not the Colonel. I hold no rank anywhere. It's the Captain and the Colonel show.
00:59:23
I'm Nick. We're chang- We're changing the name of the show to the Captain and the Colonel True Crime
00:59:29
Gay Ridge. Anyways, thanks for listening and uh we're going to have to get to these theories and there's some suspects
00:59:36
that are going to come up in this next episode. Plus, we need to get your chair fixed cuz I'm tired of hearing your your
00:59:43
butt squeak. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Thanks for sharing on social media.
00:59:48
And until next time, be good, be kind, and don't litter.