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foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] foreign foreign [Music] garage whatever you are wherever you're
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doing it I'm your host the captain and with me as always a man that's back from vacation
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from the Del Boca Vista the crispy Colonel thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to
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see all of you [Music] this week we are very proud to be featuring Midnight Rider robust Porter
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by our good friends at the Piedmont Brewery and Kitchen in beautiful Macon Georgia this baby is black in color with
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Ruby highlights and if you love dark roasted malt intense flavor topped off with chocolate and coffee this delicious
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Porter is for you garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of five and driving the beer truck to garage town
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this week are some of the garage Army's best and brightest first a big cheers to
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Ava in Gordonsville Virginia and a big shout out to Clay and Baton Rouge Louisiana next up it cheers to my man
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Chuck a and Thompson Station Tennessee and a big shout out to Daryl and Ramona in Houston Texas next here's a cheers to
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gen Z and San Diego State classy and last but certainly not least we have Matt Angela Danielle Sam and Cappy in
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Melbourne Australia and with the new year Captain it is important to remind everyone and thank everyone that because
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of their continued support with things like our beer fun and the True Crime garage store it's because of that that
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we have been able to continue the garage's support of the national center for the missing and exploited children
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the Charlie project and the porch light project all of which who are doing very very good work so cheers to them and
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and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
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crime foreign [Music] after graduating high school Mara Murray who was a good student and dedicated
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athlete competing in excelling and track and field she attended military school reports are conflicting as to why she
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left but whatever the case she left and enrolled in University of Massachusetts Amherst
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on February 9 2004 for reasons that are unknown Mara Murray who at the time was 21 years of
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age left school and drove north towards New Hampshire sometime between 7 and 7 30 PM she was
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involved in a single car accident on Route 112 inhavioral her Father Fred believes that the car
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stalled when she was going around a turn and went into a snow bank Mara knew this area fairly well and had
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been there several times before she even called a place that her family had stayed at before
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possibly to reserve a night or two for her to stay However no such Arrangements were made from what we have been told
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her family and schoolmates do not know why she was driving there that evening she was supposed to be at school and her
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car was in no shape to be driving that distance a bus driver who lived across the street
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from the accident according to his statement he spotted her car on the side of the road and offered assistance
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Mara told him that she was fine and that she had already called for roadside assistance and they were in route the
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bus driver called the police but by the time authorities arrived Mara had vanished
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some believe that she was walking or running East on the road Mara vanished sometime after the
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accident and has not been seen since her father believes she may have met with Foul Play
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Fred noted that she was in the middle of nowhere with no place to go due to her damaged car he believes that she
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accepted a ride from a stranger who then killed her some believe she vanished voluntarily
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and does not want to be found another theory is that Mara wandered off into the woods and died of exposure
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these are just three of many theories in this case we featured Mars case several times on
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both True Crime garage and off the Record the strange missing persons case of Maura Murray is one of the more popular
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Mysteries of the last 20 years and unfortunately Mars case remains unsolved [Music]
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thank you foreign up on the 16th year anniversary of The Disappearance of Mara Murray
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True Crime garage was able to sit down and talk with Julie Murray Mara's sister this interview is a long time in the
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making and so we're glad to finally be able to do that and present it to everybody
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and hopefully we're able to create a better understanding of who Mara was as a person maybe clear up some
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misunderstandings or misreporting on some of the events of her disappearance [Music]
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all right Julie it's good to talk to you we met at crime con you were very excited to meet me
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as as I was very excited to meet you as well uh very intimidated by you because I
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haven't been doing my CrossFit and I don't think you take a day off well I was you know thanks for having me
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on and I was a little intimidated by the line to meet you wrapped around the corner
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um but I was very glad that I got a chance to meet you and you know you don't need to do CrossFit every day
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um we talked about it you'll get back on the wagon yeah I think the line was to meet Nick
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um my line was a lot smaller so your sister went missing and has really become an internet
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sensation Almost Do You Remember the first time or who told you that your sister was
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missing yeah I I was at Fort Bragg North Carolina in the Army I was a I think I had just
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penned on first lieutenant I might have been a second lieutenant we were actually getting ready to deploy to our
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to Iraq and I think the call came in from Kathleen my older sister initially and it was basically frantic like have
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you heard from Mara and I told her no I hadn't what's going on and she said she's missing her car
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was found somewhere in New Hampshire it was kind of very frantic and vague the first phone call
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um and then later on I remember talking to my dad and he was asking the same set
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of questions and of course I had no idea where she was or what happened so it was extremely stressful for me to
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be that far away and just sit by the phone and just wait for some answers so that went on for the rest of that night
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and I was calling everyone and my mom was frantic my whole family was frantic and initially I said Dad okay I'm I've
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got to get leave through the army so that I can come up and figure out what's going on and he
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said oh hold up I'm gonna go up there and figure things out right so that was the initial
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notification that I received was there communication between the family about why Mara was where she was at no one had
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a clue right no one had it close so that was that was the big thing and that was kind
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of what caused us well obviously that she she was missing we knew that it was her car but we kept asking well why why
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is she there and it was this big mystery from the minute that that I got the phone call like it was a Monday night it
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was during the school year there was no reason for her that I knew at the time to be up there and like you
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said since the beginning this case has had those two questions one why was she there and then what happened and I don't
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want to put words into anybody's mouth but to me it seems like a lot of these theories of why she would be up there
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have either gone nowhere or they just seem very far-fetched like you have to LEAP from a to uh T to get there right
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that's exactly right and and that's I think that's part of the Intrigue of the case is that we know so little we don't
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know her motive for going up there in the first place and then there are there's such little evidence
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thereafter once we know that she did go missing that just can Boggle the mind and it has
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it's boggled my mind first going on 16 years now you guys grew up playing sports together but besides uh running
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track what sports did you guys actually play together we played every single sport there is
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we played softball we played soccer we played basketball we play we made up Sports we played the handball We we
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played um we used to watch America Gladiator oh yeah if you remember that show oh yeah
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yeah it was a pretty pretty cool show it was kind of like the the early 2000s version of American
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Ninja Warrior yeah for those that don't know and I love that show and so we would like try to recreate the feta
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strength or an obstacle from that show and just battle each other did you guys ever try to build one of those tennis
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ball shooters remember remember the tennis ball shooter they had um quite often actually with my dad and
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uh we always had fun we would practice together we'd play together we were usually on the same teams like growing
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up in high school and because age difference is what yeah so it was two and a half years yeah so not that far
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yeah yeah so pretty competitive with each other who was who was better well it depends on what we were doing
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that was a better Runner runner for sure I like to think I was a better uh soccer player a cool little story about
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Mara with basketball is she was so good at free throw shooting there was a there
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was a basically a qualification for the state where you shoot 10 and the best out of 10 moves forward and it was kind
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of a um um a big deal in Massachusetts and she made it all the way to the state finals
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where she got to shoot free throws at halftime of the Celtics game that's awesome yeah pretty awesome and so you
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were pretty jealous of that I was really jealous I was her ball girl I well I was
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thankful that I was able to go and go out on you know on the the court for the the priest like before the Celtics even
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came out for the warm-up they that they had the kids come in really early and I was her rebounder
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but you know she wasn't how we're gonna let you live that down oh no if no I'm sure if she was here with us right now
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she would be telling you oh yeah you were my ball girl so you guys are really close in high school
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and then she follows you to college yeah so I got into West Point and I I went there two years ahead she was still in
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in high school and then when she was getting ready to choose a college she she applied to West Point as well which
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is not not that easy to get into and you have to get a congressional nomination and yeah you got to go through a whole
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bunch of uh tests and you it's not easy to get in it's it's very prestigious to get in yeah and so
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she she got in uh she also ran track with with me on the track team which was great because at West Point everything's
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so structured and you don't have any time so we were able to see each other multiple times a day which is you know
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very rare for any other Cadets that were siblings there that weren't on the same
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sports team so well better for her than you because you've been there you I know
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but yeah you were Paving your own path but then your little sister gets there yeah and it was so cool it was so cool
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to talk about her when she was still in high school to my teammates at West Point and then I would always tell them
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you know I hope she comes she's an awesome Runner you guys would love her and then when she was finally there it
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was it was really cool but yeah so then your your father which ever since uh I started looking into your sister's
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disappearance there's a bunch of different uh I don't know assumptions about your
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dad right but some people think it's strange that he pushed you guys so hard or that's their
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words but as a kid that played a lot of sports there's been so many times where I've
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been reading about your father and I just think well I couldn't Fred be my dad because
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to me that just seems um to an athlete or somebody that is competitive to have a parent be that invested in you
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uh is that a correct term uh or the correct way to look at your dad absolutely and anyone that says that my
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dad pushed us or pushed us too hard does not know my dad because my dad did not push us
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it was us we pushed ourselves um and this that's just the nature of a distance Runner distance Runners have to
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push themselves no one's out there on the lonely road with you at mile you know seven of a 10 mile run you're
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by yourself you push yourself that's just the mindset that distance Runners have and so
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you know I used to get upset when people said you know categorize my dad as kind of like a
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just mean authoritarian just guy that was pushing us to the brink that is so inaccurate he actually told us to do
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less all the time and both Mara and I wanted to get a job in high school so we could get a little you know
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spending money and he's like no you're you don't need a job your focus needs to be in school work and
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having fun and running you don't have time to add a job on top of that right so but you still wanted
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spending money so did he give you guys some run around money well if we ask but Mara and I we never asked really for
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anything like our the biggest thing we ever wanted was like crab food candy Pizza
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um or and cool like whatever the cool sweatshirt was the champion sweatshirts or whatever but we didn't even care
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about that like we just we wanted to take it easy on them because we we had a big family and both my
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parents works and they worked hard and we didn't have a lot of money so we didn't want to we weren't needy kids is
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what I'm trying to say the time that you got to spend with your father doing that
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is invaluable yeah absolutely like he and he he gave us the resources that we needed and the biggest resource was time
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his time yeah um and we spent hours and hours and hours on the basketball court trying to
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perfect our free throw for instance and clearly Mara did that by making it all the way to the Garden or perfecting our
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we used to uh pitch fast pitch softball we would spend hours doing that and we loved it it's also free it's free for a
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family that maybe doesn't have a lot of money exactly so your dad had to be super proud of
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not just one of his girls but two of his girls going to West Point and so when she started at West Point
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what was the what do you think her energy was like well she knew she knew what to expect
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going in because I made sure she knew and um a lot of what you do as a we call it
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a plebe the first year Cadet is just wrote memorization and you've got to memorize all these different things and
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then you have to recite them so I'm like hey Mara here's my old plebe handbook start memorizing these things it'll make
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your life easier right you know she did that um and so she she excelled I just don't think her
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heart was ever really in it once once she got there well that's hard for people to explain though too is you can
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go to a college that you looked into and and visited and you did all these things
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and then all of a sudden you get there and you just don't feel like you're fitting in
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do you think she had any of that or was it just she was fitting in or could have fit in
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but she just didn't want to or yeah I think it's the letter I think she could have she she did fit in
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um she the schoolwork was no problem for her obviously the running she was doing
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great um she was that I think maybe the one or two top recruits coming in as a freshman as a sophomore she was
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she was beating me um and you know beating the Juniors and seniors on the team she was she was doing well it's the
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military stuff that I don't think she enjoyed right or definitely didn't enjoy as much as I did
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um she was more much more of a free spirit I'm more structured and so I like my routine and my everything in order
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and she was a little bit less of of that um militant type Yeah clean room messy room you seem like the clean room she
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seemed like the messy room type and so she was she was a mess I know that has been talked about a lot on the internet
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is there anything that has been misreported about it or any anything that you wanna
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talk about as far as the her time at West Point transferring over to the new school uh yeah I mean well
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let's just talk about the the issues at West Point so some of the issues were the craziest things you
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could ever imagine like she she was at a summer training her second year down at
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um Fort Knox and she was at what we call the PX Post Exchange and it's just a place where people that live on the post
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or are visiting or are there for training go and you get a discount on whatever it is it's kind of like a
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Walmart for the Army right um and so she's in there and she walks out and the military police person stops her and
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says what's in your pocket or something and she had I think it was four or five dollars worth of lip gloss maybe just in
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her pocket at the Fort Knox PX so Mara was not an idiot I don't know for sure why it was in her pocket if she
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just forgot you know essentially it was um it was a problem because Cadets can't
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lie cheat or steal or tolerate those who do that's our code that's you know what we have to
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vow to when we first enter um so anyway she she got caught for that and then she had to go through a what we
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call a honor hearing Cadet honor hearing it's basically like a trial run by your
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peers other Cadets um and it was stressful for her I was part of the the trial as a character
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witness for her and I remember going in to say you know she I think she just forgot or she didn't mean it if she was
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going to steal something it would have been something more substantial than four dollar lip gloss right but on one
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hand you can go well maybe that's why she didn't think it was so bad there's four it's lip gloss I'll just put in my
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pocket real quick and just move on yeah well that would be I I could see how you
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could think that but she also had the money to buy it so I'm not sure what the motivation would have been but what are
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you thinking in your head like I mean this is your this is your baby sister yeah I'm like what are you doing that's
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why would you do that it doesn't make any sense as she was kind of going through that whole process
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it got to a point where it was just too overwhelming like she was having to miss
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classes and her grades were dropping and she was missing practices and it just wasn't fun anymore and it wasn't
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um she just decided it wasn't for her so she actually voluntarily left West Point
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after her second year and so after your second year at West Point you have to sign a or take an oath to serve in the
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military so a lot of cadets leave after their second year because they they decide at that point hey I
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don't think this military thing is is me I don't think I'm cut out for this right
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and I think she realized I think she realized that so you what you're saying is if you stay past your
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second year you have to sign up to join the military yeah yo yeah you're locked in they got you owe five years
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[Music] foreign [Music] [Music] cheers me matey cheers to you Captain yes I am here in the garage you hear me
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and if you've listened to our little show before then you know that all of our old episodes are available on the
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free Stitcher listening app I am saying that because we have covered Mara Murray's case several times before and
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if you want to listen to those you can look up our coverage of Mars case this is in episodes 28 and 29 from May of
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2016 and also in episodes 152 and 153 from October of 2017. now where we left off Captain you
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are kind of getting into one of the biggest questions that that takes place early on in this case one of the things
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out there that people have speculated on many times over why would Mara leave West Point or was she kicked out did she
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get run out of there did she run out of there what happened in really truly this
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is what I love when we get the opportunity to speak to family members and to speak to people that are close to
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these cases usually you get a pretty simple answer to something that's been widely speculated right and this is a
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very simple answer that makes a lot of sense okay you're going to sign up this is a hard and fast rule here you're
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going to sign up for five years of military service that sounds scary if your heart is not into it and it sounds
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like Mara's heart was not into it I did want to comment a quick thought that I had regarding the
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the theft of the lip gloss right I don't want to question her sister too much regarding her thoughts and opinions on
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it because she was at the trial what I find interesting there is that she still has questions about it but she was at
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these proceedings where we have an opportunity for Mara to defend herself or shine a light on why
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was this item stolen from the uh from the the little store there I almost wonder if if this is some kind
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of not necessarily a cry for help but almost a I'm not really digging this because of
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maybe the military portion of what this education involves maybe was this a a way out that wasn't
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so such a serious offense you know I'm not a bad person but they have such strict rules if I do something as small
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as this maybe I am shoved out of here or maybe it gives me an out yeah or it could be just carelessness
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put something in my pocket didn't realize it was there walked out now now I'm busted why did you steal this stuff
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well I didn't steal the stuff I just forgot it was there and and no matter how many times you
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tell somebody that and you go well here's the items back I'm you know I forgot it in my pocket I've I have
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forgot stuff in my pocket before uh I just never got caught but you know you get to your car and you're like oh crap
00:28:05
why did I put that thing in my pocket I don't know I just did so well and this the store The
00:28:14
Establishment whatever it may be can't very well just accept the the idea of oh I put it in my pocket
00:28:21
and forgot because if they just accepted that reasoning they would have to accept that
00:28:26
a hundred times a month and everybody would be putting things in their pocket and just forgetting so yeah it's one of
00:28:32
those sticky situations and I just wonder you know hearing Julie's thoughts on it
00:28:38
I almost expected to hear more of an understanding as to why it happened other than I mean because really what
00:28:45
I'm left with there is either she intended to steal it and then what was the reasoning behind that was it that
00:28:53
she is just plain and simple a thief yeah I think in the next little bit she'll actually get to
00:29:00
Mars reasoning of or explanation of what happened okay okay because my other thought is that is this just the an
00:29:10
excuse to get out you know is this just a minor offense that I could commit so that I
00:29:16
can get out of something that I don't really want to do [Music] if you had to guess what should a say uh
00:29:37
rate her freshman year or you think she would rate that as we got one to ten being the best right
00:29:47
her experience or how she she did like her experience like yeah I don't I mean she made great
00:29:54
friends um the track team is very supportive I was there I I think she did enjoy the schoolwork
00:30:02
it was challenging so I would say like maybe a seven like she wasn't like overly thrilled like I was like
00:30:11
just wanna right walk around in my uniform all day long because I just love it um she was kind of I felt like she was
00:30:17
kind of over it like it's a lot it's a lot it wasn't like she went there and had a nine or ten
00:30:25
freshman year and just it was the best year ever then all of a sudden this Dark Cloud came over her no no and and then
00:30:33
sophomore year was so bad and no I think I think she it just solidified what she already knew from
00:30:41
the beginning like I I'll tell you this this one time the the very first summer Cadets have to go through what's called
00:30:48
Beast barracks and it's the cadet version of basic training right but it's like basic training on steroids because
00:30:58
not only are you getting beat up physically but you're also having to memorize all of these things that I
00:31:03
talked about earlier in your like 17 18 19 years old and you're away from home and it's so stressful and I loved it Mar
00:31:13
did not love it I remember I was also I was one of the trainers so my job as a when I was going into my junior year
00:31:22
was to train these new Cadets coming in and she was one of them and I dropped into her room one night
00:31:29
just to check on her and I think I brought her I was bringing her Oreos or something because you don't get to eat a
00:31:35
lot and I just found her just crying and just totally just unhappy and this is the this is before she even started
00:31:48
the academic year right and it it I didn't that was the first glimpse into seeing that she wasn't happy it's like
00:31:57
you said it's tough too when you're enjoying so many aspects of that life right and I I told I kept
00:32:06
telling her when I went through that I'm like it's so awesome like these people yell at you and you'll they'll tell you
00:32:10
to do push-ups and you'll like be the best because you're in shape and you'll do these push-ups and then they'll yell
00:32:15
at you more and I don't know maybe I'm gonna say the mask is up but I liked it and so maybe I
00:32:25
gave her the wrong impression she did not like it well no I mean but also just because you're a very good
00:32:33
athlete the different athletes are motivated by different things and like you said you you feel like you
00:32:41
are motivated uh with your life with structure and but she might have been uh motivated more by
00:32:50
and I don't want to use the word chaos but disorganization so that is yeah that is true chaos is
00:32:59
the right word for her right you're like no no stick with the chaos word yeah I'm Fred my two amazing daughters
00:33:09
they're smart they're good looking they're they're very athletic and they go to West Point I mean it doesn't
00:33:19
get much better than that and one sophomore year which like you said the the but the stealing
00:33:28
and I don't even is that what your family considered the lip gloss but we'll call it the lip gloss incident
00:33:37
is that what the family considered it stealing or was it just she just didn't know it was in her
00:33:45
pocket I really think she just got distracted that's and so and that's what she told
00:33:52
me right and I believe you know I believed it why else would she I don't understand
00:33:58
why she would try to steal from a place where she knew that there was people watching for that
00:34:05
type of thing and at this point is when she like you said she went to the the trial that was it's all pretty much
00:34:12
conducted like with in-house and I don't even know do you want to call it a trial
00:34:18
well we call it an honor board so it's I mean I no I don't want to call it a trial it's yeah it's like an honor
00:34:24
hearing but this is where she'll meet her boyfriend Bill Roush yes that is where he met bill
00:34:31
so then mama bear has to come out right and and what do you think of her boyfriend
00:34:38
yeah absolutely so bill was Bill was actually two years older or two classes ahead of Mara and which makes it would
00:34:47
make him my classmate at West Point so bill was my classmate and I didn't know Bill all that well although it's
00:34:57
pretty small there's only I think my class is only like 900 people I knew of him I hung around in the same
00:35:04
circles as him um but I didn't know him that well but then when the honor board kicked off and
00:35:12
he was helping Mara like tremendously helping Mara I thought he was a good guy so your
00:35:19
Spidey senses were telling you that this guy was okay to date your sister yeah and I was a little skeptical because he
00:35:27
was two years older and he was my classmate but I was I mean that was okay I mean in the grand scheme
00:35:34
of things there it was probably I don't know how old bill is now but it's not that big of an age difference whatsoever
00:35:41
right right so no there was nothing that there was nothing that I outwardly disliked about Bill well I
00:35:50
think that it it it's interesting to me because like you said I think that's a key thing that maybe the inter internet
00:35:58
has missed upon is that she's leaving this school and I think the number one reason
00:36:06
would be that she wouldn't want to sign up for military duty yeah you must not want to sign up for
00:36:14
military so much because you have a lot of things there at that school going for you have
00:36:20
you have Athletics that you're excelling in you're doing well in school I mean yes Less in your sophomore year
00:36:29
your sister's there and she's cool all right I don't know well I'm trying to I'm trying to butter
00:36:36
you up right now I don't know if she would call me cool and she's really awesome and uh but then you have your
00:36:44
boyfriend there yeah and so it's kind of a big thing right you go okay well now she's switching schools and that's going
00:36:51
to make a lot of things harder but I don't know my gut feeling is just I had to do it myself
00:36:58
and it was tough it was a big deal to switch schools but what a relief it was once I got to school then I felt like I
00:37:06
belonged so now she gets she starts the next year on time is that correct well she transferred her
00:37:18
she attempted to transfer all her credits from her classes at West Point but I think that put her behind a
00:37:26
semester um at UMass so I think she went into UMass at half a semester behind where she would
00:37:36
have been at West Point the other thing I want to say about that is she she's she switched basically universes she
00:37:43
went from West Point chemical engineering military career to in she got into the nursing program
00:37:53
those are polar opposite things we have a nursing program is very uh difficult and time consuming maybe
00:38:02
the the level of math and certain things like that aren't going to be as high but
00:38:08
it's a very time consuming major yes I definitely agree there and it and it's definitely a hard program but the
00:38:16
careers are are are are opposite I mean you're going to war or you're going to go help people look I mean let's talk
00:38:24
about a couple of situations she gets into there the credit card fraud so Mom at
00:38:32
UMass I Mara was using a another person's credit card to purchase um random things like pizza from
00:38:45
Domino's and subs and stuff so I don't I didn't really get what all that was about but other people have told me that
00:38:53
that she wasn't the only one doing it I'm not saying that that makes it right but I'm
00:38:58
saying if if you really start to think about it who is that important to why is that important that
00:39:08
she was doing that but I think by showing these actions or these questionable states of behavior that it allows people
00:39:19
to create a narrative yeah I agree and you've gotta you gotta kind of peel it back and look at
00:39:26
who are these people focusing on these small little details and what is their motive
00:39:32
why is it like I said why is that important is it important to where Mara is was it important to why she went to
00:39:42
New Hampshire on that Monday night in the grand scheme of things maybe but I don't think so but
00:39:50
you know it kind of brings me to the point of you've got this cast of characters that are
00:39:57
obsessed with this case and some of which are using it for for profit uh for some of them need content
00:40:07
or some of them need to pick apart some of the stuff that a 21 year old girl did in college
00:40:15
to be relevant in you know we could we could pick apart every little thing that you and I did when we were 21 and it
00:40:24
would probably look a lot worse than what Mara did I mean I don't want to speak for you but I mean I did some
00:40:30
really dumb stuff yeah but you also had a clean room but I did have a clean room yeah
00:40:36
so I mean once you have a clean room they people trying to write books or people
00:40:42
trying to start podcasts if they see a clean room they just keep moving yeah they go oh nothing to see here yeah
00:40:49
exactly um what I'm trying to do is to get a sense of where you think she was at and her life how she thinks how you
00:40:57
think things were going because I know with siblings I hear about the Ebbs and flows
00:41:04
and and and sometimes your parents will tell you oh things aren't going so well so then you reach out and check in with
00:41:11
your brother or sister and find out hey things are not actually that bad or they
00:41:16
tell you things are great and then you check in and you go oh things aren't that great
00:41:21
but to me it seems like things are she's doing a lot better and she's heading in
00:41:26
the right direction yeah and one of the things that that I can say about that is she was doing
00:41:34
really well in the nursing program she was on the track team she had a group of girlfriends that she hung out
00:41:40
with she kept in touch with her friends from high school pretty regularly more than than I ever did but the other thing
00:41:49
is she was an athletic tutor so she was a tutor for other athletes you don't just become an athletic tutor
00:41:59
if you've you're a mess you know what I mean so um I don't know what the selection
00:42:07
process was or how you got to be a tutor but um she definitely was one and she met
00:42:15
some kind of qualification yeah exactly um and she she actually had a an appointment or a session I don't know
00:42:24
what it's called the week that she went missing um that she didn't show up to obviously
00:42:31
because she was missing um so I'd be interested in trying to track down who that person was she was
00:42:40
supposed to tutor was that session supposed to be on that Monday I'm not sure the exact day but I know it
00:42:48
was that week yeah because that's the other thing that is kind of unclear is she you know so things are going pretty
00:42:56
well I know there's these these phone calls that she gets at work she seems a little upset so
00:43:02
one of her bosses walk her back to her dorm do you know who that call was to or what
00:43:09
it was about or yeah so that call was um with my older sister Kathleen to the best of our knowledge from what we know
00:43:18
from phone records and talking to everyone um that spoke to her that night so she
00:43:24
had a call with my older sister Kathleen basically Kathleen had just gotten out of rehab
00:43:32
um for um alcoholism and her husband at the time picked her up from rehab and took her directly to a
00:43:43
liquor store and Kathleen was telling Mara that so my thought is you know that call was
00:43:53
earlier in the night I think it was about 10 10 p.m ish um and Mara was at her security desk job where she would
00:44:00
check people's IDs to get into the dorm room at UMass and she hung up the phone with Kathleen
00:44:08
um that way also another job that they don't give to people that are barely making it by exactly yeah struggling to
00:44:15
get through school yeah yeah and that was one of her jobs she had she had another job so she had two jobs uh so
00:44:25
she was she was on the go like she was doing a lot how mad was how mad was your dad about
00:44:32
her having two jobs well I don't even know if my dad knew one of them but I'm not sure if he knew
00:44:42
she worked at an art gallery as well I'm not sure if if he knew about that he probably did because he loves art and
00:44:48
stuff like that but yeah so she gets his call that's pretty upsetting it's a pretty upsetting call
00:44:54
um to get from your sister who you care about and for that to happen um Kathleen was probably upset and
00:45:03
disappointed in herself and felt like a failure and I know Mara was the type of person that would have tried to be stoic
00:45:10
and calm Kathleen down and and you know be that rock for her so I was just going to say that
00:45:18
sometimes you can be a rock for the person on the phone but when you get off the phone then you you have to
00:45:25
um let out that sadness or that negative energy yourself absolutely and so that's
00:45:31
kind of what I think happened I think it really upset Mara that that phone call with Kathleen and I think she wasn't
00:45:38
able to release any of those emotions with Kathleen in the state that she was and
00:45:46
so she probably and she was at her job so she didn't have this breakdown until later towards the end of her shift where
00:45:55
maybe she couldn't hold it together any longer and you know like you said you can't hold that in and Mara was was
00:46:03
emotional um and so she just had this breakdown to the point where the student boss I guess
00:46:10
you'd call it um Kamer was notified and came to where Mar was sitting and basically escorted
00:46:17
Mara um back to her room the other thing that people question a lot is that your
00:46:22
dad came to visit her the weekend before she went missing yes my dad came up from
00:46:31
Connecticut to visit Mara and the purpose of his visit was to buy a new car not a new car a you a new used
00:46:41
car from what new to her new to her yep that's what kind of cars we got so I don't I didn't know what a
00:46:52
new car was yeah oh exactly I was like you mean somebody else's car I believe they went and looked at some
00:46:59
cars uh and possibly called around but there wasn't anything that he was particularly
00:47:06
in love with well actually no that um they did find they they narrowed down they narrowed it down to two two cars
00:47:15
that weekend they they went to several different locations um Mara's uh boyfriend Bill actually
00:47:21
bought a car somewhere at at one of the locations that they looked at himself and so they went there and they felt no
00:47:29
Rouch bought a car yep during this trip no no no before prior Bill bought a car at a previous trip to
00:47:38
UMass to visit Mara okay yep so Mar and my dad went to that location to say hey do you let me see what your
00:47:46
inventory is what do you have they found one vehicle that was kind of in the right price range I that vehicle
00:47:53
was um I want to say four thousand dollars I believe then they went to another location this is on that Saturday
00:48:03
uh and they found another car which was a better car I can't remember the brand but I know it was red
00:48:11
um but that car was six thousand dollars and that's the car that my dad wanted to
00:48:17
get from our because it was a little bit it was a better brand or something I'm it might have been a I don't know what
00:48:23
kind it was but anyway my dad only my dad deals in cash um because when you're trying to go deal
00:48:29
with used car salesmen cash is King and so he had this God you sound like my father cash is King yes yes I know Dad I
00:48:39
know Dad I mean and you my dad's a pretty skilled negotiator when it comes to dealing with those old school type of
00:48:46
guys that typically work at UH used cars places yeah but back in the day car car
00:48:52
dealerships were different you and you could also you couldn't just call your bank and tell them run my card
00:49:01
for six grand no there was limits and stuff like that so the fact that he'd be dealing with cash makes the most sense
00:49:08
in the world but a lot of people then have taken this idea that they were going to go look for
00:49:13
a car which like if you had a rate her car uh one one to ten what would you rate it
00:49:22
it was like a two it was it was trash it was not good right and so they're going up
00:49:31
to get a car but then there's been all this speculation that your father gave her this money which is
00:49:38
I can't find proof of that that he gave her the money and then they say that she was pregnant
00:49:46
and that's why she's been missing all these years because she was pregnant and she was and your dad was helping her run
00:49:52
away yeah that's just crazy talk to me that's someone that needs to need some content or needs to make this
00:50:03
sensationalize this that is not what happened and dumb just says some background like my dad deals in cash not
00:50:10
only with card you know dealing with cars he just he always has cash all the time and I guarantee you when he was
00:50:18
looking at those cars He I'm pretty sure he probably flashed his cash in front of
00:50:23
whoever it was to try to get a you know a a better deal on the car um and listen his his bank was in
00:50:33
Connecticut and it's not like it's not like they had Sun Trust and I don't know Bank of America
00:50:44
um yeah so it's not like you could just get a bunch of cash out from anywhere back
00:50:54
then actually I think his his bank account might have been out of east or yeah eastern Mass
00:51:01
but whatever it wasn't it wasn't near UMass um and so he had limits on how much he
00:51:07
could withdraw he knew he wanted the cash because to incentivize the dealer to give him a better better deal
00:51:14
the bottom line was he wanted to get more of the more expensive car and he didn't have the the other two thousand
00:51:21
dollars so he told her I'm gonna come back next weekend and we're gonna get you this car the other reason why time
00:51:28
was of the essence for her to get this car was be part of her nursing program required her to go to clinicals and so
00:51:38
she had to travel to all these different hospitals for these clinical rotations that she had and part of the the process
00:51:46
was that was she had to confirm that she had reliable transportation which she did not
00:51:51
um so she she needed this car to go to these clinicals because she was just bumming rides from her classmates you
00:51:58
can only miss so many uh clinicals these are huge in a nursing program and some places
00:52:05
that you can't even miss one uh if you miss one you have to do a makeup so to miss one uh could have been a big No-No
00:52:15
yeah absolutely and she was doing so well in the program I don't think she wanted to take that risk
00:52:21
um and it this is just speculation on my part but she could have told her professors she needed time off
00:52:28
and there was a death in the family so that she could buy some time to get this new car and not basically lie and
00:52:38
say for whatever reason she had to go and it could have been to take care of her
00:52:44
reinstatement fee in New Hampshire which she knew she had a she got a speeding ticket New Hampshire the couple months
00:52:51
prior to her going missing um so it kind of all kind of comes together into a theory that that's why she was
00:53:00
going up to New Hampshire in the first place all right so let's okay let's stay on that first second so
00:53:06
and I believe this is like new information that for 15 years we've wondered why she was there and then what happened
00:53:14
and I believe we have the most plausible reason of what why she was there so your dad comes to visit he's going to
00:53:26
buy her car they find one but it's not the car that she wanted so now she decides that she is going to she's going
00:53:35
to go to an area that she went on vacation with uh your father and Bill and during that time she got a speeding
00:53:47
ticket yes and so she then didn't pay the speeding ticket no she she did pay the speeding ticket
00:53:58
she actually she was required to appear because she got a 99 the speeding ticket
00:54:04
was 99 miles per hour so it was pretty pretty fast right she had to appear and pay a pretty
00:54:11
hefty fine which she paid the fine for the speeding but they she never paid the reinstatement fee or we don't know
00:54:20
whether she's paid the reinstatement fee right so it looks like they probably suspended her license for a time period
00:54:26
and then they wanted her to pay a reinstatement fee right and then so she didn't pay that fee so
00:54:37
so you believe that on that Monday when she then tells her school and work and everybody look there's a family
00:54:44
emergency and uh I gotta take care of this and then I'll be back so the thought is that she was going to
00:54:53
drive up there Monday either pay then stay somewhere and then go back to your father's house well yeah it was my
00:55:02
mother's house at the time but that yeah that's sort of what the theory is but basically
00:55:08
she she got into an accident that that Saturday night prior um to her going missing on Monday after
00:55:17
they her and my dad went car shopping and so the thought is that's when she learned that she had a
00:55:26
suspended license that required her to show up in person in New Hampshire to pay a reinstatement fee
00:55:32
because I'm not sure how well she would have known that her license was suspended in New
00:55:39
Hampshire so yeah although her license wasn't suspended in Massachusetts you know if
00:55:44
the the officer at the accident and Hadley on that Saturday would have run her license he may have seen that and
00:55:53
just said hey you know you have this issue yeah and the accident on Saturday she just
00:55:59
ran off the road yeah she just fled off the road she just yeah ran off went into a t she
00:56:07
was at A T intersection and just went straight forward and hit the guardrail so then she she is driven back by the
00:56:14
police officer to your father's Hotel because he's visiting trying to help his daughter get a car yeah well she she she
00:56:22
jumped in the tow the the officer on the scene did not cite her for DUI she he let her go she didn't get any
00:56:33
she didn't get anything and he allowed her to jump in the tow truck in the tow truck took the car the my dad's Corolla
00:56:42
to wherever they take it which happens to which happened to be right next to where my dad's Hotel was and so she
00:56:49
walked in and just went to the hotel so okay so have you talked to your dad about this did he did he think she was
00:56:58
intoxicated because you said she didn't get a DUI or her own VI yeah so I mean it's pure speculation who can say who
00:57:07
can say whether she was intoxicated or not right um obviously a not for the not enough for the officer to think that she
00:57:15
deserved to be arrested for it yeah and I mean we're talking about UMass it's but I would say over half the student
00:57:24
body is intoxicated on Saturday night um but that I'm you know I'm not I think that doesn't mean they should be driving
00:57:31
though yeah oh absolutely I totally agree with you and even if even if she was over tired she shouldn't have been
00:57:37
driving um right but yeah I totally agree with you but I think the police officer like
00:57:43
I said if it was apparent she's been heavily drinking he's not gonna let her off like that no I just I don't buy that
00:57:53
for one minute so he lets her go back how about you just jump in the tow truck and then go back to your dad's hotel and
00:58:00
the another thing about the internet that I mean with this case and I find this just absolutely
00:58:08
uh appalling and disgusting is is some of the stuff that people then have speculated or assumed because
00:58:18
Fred has a hotel and his daughter's going to stay in the hotel with him how has that kind of speculation
00:58:28
you know against your father uh I just don't even want to say the words I don't want to rehash what they're
00:58:35
speculating but I mean how how does that affect you I mean it's just sick it really is because number one
00:58:46
um there was two beds in that room right and it's really upsetting because obviously whoever's spreading this does
00:58:56
has doesn't know my dad um and to say those things about a father with a missing child is nothing other
00:59:05
than sick and there's there's got to be a motive behind why anyone would say that and I
00:59:12
think it's pretty clear what the motive is for any for whoever's saying that so she ends up talking to your father your
00:59:18
sister ends up talking to your father talking to her boyfriend that night well let me let me just clear the record on
00:59:25
that so when she got back to the hotel room in the tow truck she couldn't get into the his room
00:59:36
um so she actually kind of dozed off on the couch in the lobby of that hotel right she didn't have a key to the room
00:59:45
and I don't know whether she didn't want to wake my dad or there was maybe a Lobby
00:59:51
um door that you had to have a key to the room to get in I'm not sure the exact circumstances but my dad didn't
00:59:57
know that anything even happened until the next morning when he woke up somehow she I guess when the the front
01:00:10
desk person came I don't know if it was man 24 hours or whatever somehow she got
01:00:15
to access to my dad's room later on in the morning and she used his cell phone to call Bill
01:00:24
and tell Bill what happened and then that's when she told my dad what happened she has a cell phone we know
01:00:30
she has a cell phone but it's possibly dead at that point and then well she left it she left the cell phone at the
01:00:38
dorms right so she didn't have her own cell phone it was so nice back in the day when we could do that just leave
01:00:45
though just leave your cell phone at home you don't need it yeah I think we'd all freak out right well I mean that's
01:00:53
but but here's another point that I think it's interesting for people to hear is
01:01:00
there's tons of people that have investigated this case there's tons of people that have looked at this case and
01:01:07
to just talk about the time that she gets in a wreck on Saturday and then she goes back to the hotel with her father
01:01:13
and I have never heard that she actually had to go to the lobby first and sleep on the couch
01:01:19
yeah I mean this is the misinformation that gets put out there not for every case but for a lot of
01:01:26
cases there's little and and does that have anything to do with her going missing probably not but it's just to
01:01:32
show that not all details or things that are people are reporting should everybody take as fact I agree and I
01:01:41
think that my kind of rule of thumb with this is to fig to figure out the motive behind why
01:01:48
people are saying certain things and it's been 16 years and you know I've figured out there there's a few loud
01:01:55
voices surrounding this case um and their motives are pretty uh apparent um and so I don't really let that that
01:02:03
type of stuff really get to me and distract me from what my urine is and my motive which is to find my sister so
01:02:11
you're so you're telling me that she's not pregnant and your father's not paying for her to start a new life
01:02:19
yes I can't believe I have to say this um yes that's what I'm saying the four thousand dollars was to buy her a new
01:02:27
buy her a car that actually ran with all cylinders firing and she so there's I have to address it I
01:02:37
can't believe I do but the rumor about the pregnancy um issue is that her computers showed
01:02:44
searches for pregnancy terms maternity terms and that's because her homework assignment was she was going through a
01:02:53
maternity cycle and so her literal homework was to look up maternity terms Julie that sounds a little too
01:03:02
convenient I mean I mean it's not a good story it's not it's not salacious and it's yeah and and also she was on birth
01:03:12
control and the birth control she had four pills missing out of the her current pack of birth control right that
01:03:19
was found one of the items found in her car so and the other thing too is there's been
01:03:25
multiple accounts that after the first year of her going missing your father's up there every weekend and then it I
01:03:33
think then he kind of goes down to every other week and then eventually every three weeks he's going up there
01:03:39
but that's yeah that that's hurtful that is really hurtful for me to hear stuff like that because I sat there and I
01:03:47
watched my dad for 10 years I mean we're going on 16 years yeah but for 10 years
01:03:51
that man that poor man drove up to New Hampshire from whether he was in Connecticut or down at the cape at the
01:03:58
time most sometimes and most of the times all by himself on that Lonely Road and I just can't imagine I wish I could
01:04:05
have been there on some of those trips with him I just can't imagine what he's thinking for four hours in his car
01:04:11
and then for people to say well he didn't go up there enough that man could not have gone up there any more than he
01:04:17
he did and it's really hurtful for me to hear stuff like that every weekend I mean you
01:04:24
have to make a living you have to pay your bills and then every weekend you're going and that's that is not coming from
01:04:30
I did not hear that from anybody in your family I heard that from uh volunteers people that were helping him and then to
01:04:38
continue to do that every year and continue to do that every weekend when you're finding no new information
01:04:46
I mean that I think there's a level of love and care that you just naturally have for
01:04:54
somebody in your family if he didn't have that for your sister there's it would be impossible
01:05:01
to do what he did in the amount of searches and the hours he searched and the amount of money he spent searching
01:05:08
yeah and I mean and like I said before all by himself most of the time I was in the army or in you know in my government
01:05:16
job and wasn't able to get up there as much as I would have liked when he went up there all he hit was roadblocks he
01:05:24
just hit roadblock after roadblock and two years into the case after hitting all these roadblocks the man who
01:05:32
supposedly took four thousand dollars out to help Mara run away is pleading for the release of all the records
01:05:41
at the New Hampshire Supreme Court pleading to get the FBI involved now what man who's trying to help his
01:05:48
daughter Escape pleads for the FBI and also with the speculation out there that she was
01:05:55
that she ran away to start a new life because your father was sexually abusive or physically abusive for her to get in
01:06:02
a crash on that Saturday and then tell the police officer ah don't take me to my dorm take me to my father's hotel
01:06:08
that doesn't make a lot of sense to me we're we're getting logical here I don't know I don't know what the internet can
01:06:16
handle that but then the abusive person that is abusing the person because they don't care about them
01:06:22
cares so much that they go search for him by themselves there's just no logical sense nor is there evidence and that's
01:06:32
the thing that has really drove me nuts about people talking about your sister people that claim that they're looking
01:06:40
for your sister people that claim that they're they're they have a that they're doing this
01:06:47
for good uh making accusations and speculations with no evidence and so so that so that Monday we believe
01:06:56
that she was going up with this with the new theory that I believe is based off of actual evidence
01:07:04
that she was going up to that area to pay pay that ticket yeah and I'm not married to any Theory and I'm
01:07:15
not pushing a theory I don't know where Mara is I don't know what happened to her
01:07:22
I'm open to I have to be open to all possibilities and all theories um not wild speculation but based on
01:07:31
what we do know we can kind of narrow it down a bit but like I said I'm not I'm not convinced that this is the theory
01:07:39
and I'm gonna you know push this narrative um but it's possible it's possible I just haven't heard that many logical
01:07:49
reasons why I should be in that area and this to me sounds like an actual logical
01:07:56
reason yeah I I mean I I definitely agree I I wish I knew I wish I I knew the answer to why she was there
01:08:05
I wish somebody did I wish she would have told somebody like I said like before I've said it so many times it
01:08:14
doesn't make it doesn't make sense for her to be there and it wasn't smart and she wasn't supposed to drive the Saturn
01:08:21
and she didn't drive the Saturn when my dad was around because he she knew that um he'd get her for it and say this is
01:08:30
awful this is also why he said hey while I'm at my hotel not using my car why don't you use my car
01:08:38
go hang out use my car exactly but I will say that I do know that occasionally I guess when she couldn't
01:08:45
find any other person to take her where she needed to go she would jump in the Saturn and drive it short distances
01:08:52
um because and one of her emails to her high school friends she referenced getting stuck in the snow in her stupid
01:09:00
Saturn or I don't know what term she used so she jumps in her Saturn she's going to go we know that she stops at an
01:09:07
ATM we that that footage was finally released I think the biggest thing about them releasing the ATM footage was you
01:09:16
not knowing if you've seen the jacket that she was wearing part of part of that statement I mean and when you when
01:09:23
I'm on the oxygen show and I'm saying that and I'm I'm looking at the computer screen that they put in front of me that
01:09:30
is the very first time in my entire life that I had seen that and I was trying to
01:09:36
hold it together I was really just trying to say something um and I don't know what made me say that
01:09:45
but it's true I mean I didn't recognize a jacket but I was in such shock and it it's a hard thing to to it was a hard
01:09:52
thing for me to see especially with cameras all over me and I'm trying to play it cool and be like
01:09:57
you know not get super emotional um and so I'm like I don't recognize a jacket I'm like why did I say that it's
01:10:04
not an appropriate thing to say but it's true it's just where my mind went um but that was that was hard yeah it's
01:10:12
also emotional because you have been through so much and your family has been through so much
01:10:18
and then you get to see this picture and that's the last known recording of her yeah and I've stared at those pictures
01:10:26
I've analyzed those pictures I've zoomed in and zoomed out just to kind of like try to read her expression try to
01:10:33
figure out her state of mind because I knew Mara better than anyone and the this unfortunately the still shots
01:10:43
that we were shown are pretty bad quality yeah um I can't tell you how how many times I've
01:10:51
stared at those pictures because it literally is that the last time I've I'll see her
01:10:56
[Music] thank you to everybody for joining us here in the garage today join us back
01:11:13
here again tomorrow for much more on this case until then be good be kind and don't live
01:11:28
foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music]