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changer 911 what is your emergency um we need someone here at the con Daily Tribune
00:01:08
what's going on I'm I'm not sure I was just told to call 911 there's somebody hurt outside is there anybody who can
00:01:13
tell me what's going on there I here we at the main building at the Tribune and what's going on the parking lot the
00:01:20
sports editor Kent laying on the ground pool of blood looks like he've been shot
00:01:24
or something okay he's on the parking lot behind the Tribune on the KFC side yes
00:01:30
yes who did you see in the area I saw two guys in the area were they white or black white I'd say 1920 what were they
00:01:37
wearing I I don't know this C she saw them she walked out to smoke a cigarette saw them duck down behind the car okay I
00:01:45
looked out and saw them and I said what's going on I knew it was Kent's car and I said Kent and they didn't look up
00:01:51
nobody did anything somebody's been hurt man okay so you saw them duck down behind his car yes okay and then where
00:01:57
did they go after that I don't know up up towards the new building uh towards Fourth Street I guess that's fourth so
00:02:05
just to make sure though he's down on the parking lot yes at all on these guys I don't well they they were close to 6
00:02:12
fet uh thin one of them had blond hair really really short blonde hair they either one of them have hats or caps
00:02:20
they were headed towards four street so that would have been East or I'd say Southeast but I don't know that for sure
00:02:27
because they took off you know and they went up that Alleyway towards fourth all
00:02:32
right we've got officers on the way over there right now all right we'll be out there okay
00:02:39
[Music] [Applause] bye welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:03:19
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me is a guy that less than two weeks ago the mayor of Indianapolis gave
00:03:26
him the key to the city he is the captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to
00:03:32
see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are drinking bobber
00:03:42
logger by the Brilliant Minds over at logboat Brewing Company in beautiful Columbia Missouri garage grade you know
00:03:50
I love a good logger especially in the warm months and this is a great one so garage grade let's go four and a quarter
00:03:56
bottle caps out of five bobber is an unfilter filtered logger brewed with inspiration from pale German loggers and
00:04:03
the Noble Hops provide a little bitterness in my favorite part bobber has a crisp clean finish I was on their
00:04:10
website the other day and you know sometimes a brewer will recommend food pairings with different beers and for
00:04:15
bobber logger they recommend deer sausage and this logger is brought To Us by these little fishes first up we have
00:04:22
Natalie from Grand Ledge Michigan who says please give the beers to the captain because I think I have the hots
00:04:28
for him well look at that Captain you still got it buddy all these years never had it next we have Briana and Brandon
00:04:34
in South Dakota we also have Aaron who is a web sluther turned private investigator in Fort me Maryland that's
00:04:42
the old crabcake State and a big we like your jib to Kendra up in Ontario Canada
00:04:48
and we also have Meredith sending love from Hot Springs Arkansas I've been to hot pants I've
00:04:54
never been to Hot Springs we also give a shout out to laquelle in the Bronx and last but not least we have John from
00:05:00
Western Massachusetts he recommends Spencer Trappist ale and he says obviously here quoting Ferris buer it is
00:05:08
so choice if you have the means I highly recommend picking some up do you have a
00:05:13
kiss for your daddy so thank you to everybody for filling up the fridge for this week and if you want to buy us
00:05:18
around for next week's show please go to True Crim garage.com and click on the Donate button and if you want to check
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out everything with True Crime go to the website we also have some shirts we have
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the purple v-necks we have the team captain tank tops coming out and then we have the gray logos for the men so check
00:05:35
those out all orders are shipped on Friday I must protest here it sounds like there's no team Nick shirt yeah
00:05:41
well we're working on a team Colonel shirt it's like a team of one over here that's enough of the business everybody
00:05:48
gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime this is true crime
00:06:04
garage and this is the case of Ryan [Music] Ferguson how many times did you think
00:06:25
you hit him all together just once just once the only problem I have with that is I know that he hit more than once I
00:06:30
just hit him once you just hit him once you didn't hit him more than like because I distin remember the first time
00:06:36
that I hit him I remember hearing this noise and it just and just seeing his face and it just made me sick if you
00:06:42
only hit him once turn away and got sick you had to hand the thing off to Ryan because this guy's got head rooms all
00:06:48
over his head we're talking minimum 15 strikes I must have done I mean I don't either that or I stopped and he did I
00:06:56
don't know did you ever drop the pipe probably did you hand it off to Ryan I don't I don't know I don't think so
00:07:04
let's go back to when you were talking about how you saw Ryan strangle this guy now we know what the guy got strangled
00:07:13
with that's kind of the thing I've been holding back to all right is it possible that you know what
00:07:18
he was strangled with and just didn't want to tell you cuz I I know know like I think it was a shirt or something well
00:07:23
I know it wasn't a shirt it's like maybe a bungee cord or I don't something from
00:07:27
his car I don't see why it have brok his car well we know for a fact that his belt was ripped off of his pants and he
00:07:32
was strangled with his belt really yeah do you see a belt in Ryan's hand something look like a rope maybe or a
00:07:39
bungee cord I don't know so it's possible Ryan could have strangled this guy with his belt got the keys and you
00:07:45
not the GU the man's belt yeah his own belt yes is that ring a bell not at all like I but you saw Ryan strangling
00:07:54
though I thought yeah yeah okay you said earlier something about Ryan's Ryan want
00:07:59
wanted to choke him down to make sure he was dead is that true I think that he was like
00:08:06
[Music] yeah Ryan Ferguson was convicted of the murder of Kent height Hol Kent's murder
00:08:23
took place in the early morning hours of November 1st 2001 in Ryan Ferguson's hometown of Columbia Missouri at the
00:08:32
time of the murder Ferguson was only 17 years old he was a junior in high school
00:08:38
Kent heol was found beaten and strangled shortly after 2 a.m. on November 1st 2001 in the parking lot of the Columbia
00:08:46
Daily Tribune Kent worked there as a sports editor the murder went unsolved for 2 years until police received a tip
00:08:56
that a man this is Charles Erikson he was was extremely drunk that night and he could not remember some of the events
00:09:02
that took place that evening mhm and most of what took place around the time of the actual murder after reading
00:09:09
newspaper articles Charles Ericson was having dreams about the murder he told a couple of people that he had concerns
00:09:17
that he may have been involved in the actual murder well and Chuck had a drug problem as well correct Charles Ericson
00:09:23
was partying with Ryan Ferguson on Halloween night October 31st now this would be Wednesday night but we all know
00:09:30
how much Everyone likes to party on Halloween Charles and Ryan they were doing quite a bit of underage drinking
00:09:37
at a bar that night M and a party that had started in the evening earlier turned into partying into the early
00:09:44
morning hours Charles or Chuck Ericson would later confess to the murder of Kent heol and implicate Ryan Ferguson in
00:09:53
the murder as well Ryan Ferguson was convicted in the fall of 2005 and what you can hear in that trailer is the
00:10:01
interrogation of Chucky mhm yeah and that was kind of a what we just went through is a summarized version of the
00:10:07
case which we usually don't go through that and summarize the case for you before we go so now they can just stop
00:10:14
listening yeah you now you know everything done all right see you guys next week well we usually don't do that
00:10:19
before we go through it in detail but we wanted to do that because with this case
00:10:24
it's it's actually very important that persons not familiar with this case have that information because when it comes
00:10:31
to Ryan Ferguson Not only was his innocence or guilt called into question before he was convicted but both were
00:10:38
called into question years after his conviction which ultimately would lead to appeals trials and then Ryan
00:10:45
Ferguson's conviction was vacated in November of 2013 so I just wanted everybody to be
00:10:51
aware of that situation fully before we go through the detailed account of what took place the evening of October 31st
00:10:59
and the early morning hours of November 1st 2001 so each of you can make a little mental note of when you think of
00:11:07
you know at some points some things might Point towards Ryan's guilt or if it would Point towards his innocence
00:11:14
yeah don't don't you tell me what to do okay let's go through a detailed account
00:11:18
of that night and first we'll go through the police SL prosecutor story of that evening as what they piece together off
00:11:27
of eyewitness accounts and the Confessor this is Charles or Chuck Erikson and we'll call him Chuck from now on I'll
00:11:35
call him Chucky there you go on the evening of October 31st 2001 as we said many people were out celebrating
00:11:42
Halloween this including students from both of the city's two high schools we will start the evening off roughly in
00:11:49
the time frame of about 9 to 10 p.m. there are several Halloween parties going on and the ones we are talking
00:11:57
about have both High School age kids and young adults just out of high school at
00:12:02
these parties Ryan Ferguson is party hopping that evening and as the night goes on he's getting ready to leave a
00:12:09
party and he sees Chuck Erikson who as we said he knows him from school right some have reported that Ryan and Chuck
00:12:17
were hanging out that night together others report that Ryan offered Chuck a ride as he was leaving the party I think
00:12:24
either way actually works uh it's not really important so however it comes about they are riding together in Ryan's
00:12:31
car Ryan tells Chuck well and let's get this clear too because a lot of people report like that they're buddies kind of
00:12:38
like in the west Memphis 3 case where it's like yeah they're you know two of them were buddies and one was just kind
00:12:44
of acquaintance in this scenario uh Ryan and Chucky they're just acquaintances yeah they know each other from school
00:12:50
they're the same age they probably have a couple classes together but from everything that I could gather you're
00:12:56
exactly right Captain they that doesn't sound like they were they were not best friends they they really didn't even
00:13:02
hang out a whole lot together almost opposite sides of the track I mean we have an individual with Ryan that seems
00:13:07
to be heavily involved in sports um you know involved with his family and a lot of friends and it seems like Chucky is
00:13:16
uh kind of on the slacker side mhm and they ran in the same circles but the circle wasn't just the two of them it
00:13:22
was you know many friends that they had right anyway so regardless of how they end up in Ryan's vehicle but they're in
00:13:30
his car and at some point either before the ride or during the ride Ryan says to
00:13:36
to Chuck you know hey uh let's go to this club my older sister is at a club and she can get us in and we can
00:13:43
continue to party you know we'll go there and have a few drinks right okay sounds great so the two underage
00:13:49
17-year-old boys out looking for a good time they meet up with Ryan's sister well and they're going to meet up at a
00:13:54
bar called uh by George mhm and such a dumb name for a bar sorry if you own that bar and I'm talking about it but or
00:14:03
if your name is George I I don't mind the name George I'm just saying by George is kind of a dumb name for a bar
00:14:08
Chuck Ericson states that the the two spent up what money that they had once they were at the bar okay uh and then
00:14:16
Ryan's sister bought a drink or two for them and then the two left you know because they were out of money once
00:14:23
outside Ryan is calling people on his cell phone now I couldn't gather why Ryan was calling a bunch of different
00:14:31
people but I'm going to guess that Erikson that chuck would have said possibility that that that Ryan was
00:14:38
looking for someone with money to either join them at by George's or looking for
00:14:42
another place to go party because what Chuck Ericson would say is that Ryan Ryan said next would imply that Ryan was
00:14:51
not done partying for the night so with with no one left to call Ryan tells Chuck hey man let's go rob some someone
00:14:59
so we can get enough money to get back into the bar and have some more drinks all right okay yeah here's a plan
00:15:07
yeah I mean you it happens every weekend how many times you're at a bar and your
00:15:12
buddy says let's go rob somebody so we can drink more well before they leave Ryan's car they take a like a tire iron
00:15:19
or one of those tire changing tools that come in the trunk of your car uh they take this item and so they walk to find
00:15:27
their potential robbery or mugging victim uh well they spot 48-year-old Kent he hole Kent as we
00:15:35
had said Kent is working late at the Columbia Daily Tribune uh this would be approximately at 2:15 a.m. or so now I
00:15:43
do want to point out here that several people were working at the Columbia Daily Tribune that night uh early
00:15:50
morning hours whatever you want to call it and the the times well most of the times we give during this detailed
00:15:57
account are going to be more approximate times uh for most of this stuff we do not have exact times for one reason we
00:16:05
have our main witness which is Chuck Erikson who ends up confessing to being a part of the crime implicating Ryan
00:16:11
Ferguson chuck had fully admitted he was so drunk and high that night uh that that he had been drinking doing Aderall
00:16:19
and cocaine that night so quite the concoction inside of him well damn Chuck he slow down and well he admits to being
00:16:26
so messed up that he cannot remember most of the night so there's one reason of not having exact times but what we
00:16:33
will figure out here is that almost you know almost in the same breath that I say that I'll point out that we do know
00:16:39
that these times from the other eyewitnesses are close or somewhat accurate because we are dealing with
00:16:45
such a small window of time that they have to be close Okay MH so how do we know Ryan and Chuck spot Kent at
00:16:53
approximately 2:15 a.m. well Michael Boyd he is another employee of the Daily Tribune he's working he's a writer a
00:17:02
part-time writer he says he left work sometime before Kent height hold did and he knows this because he left around 2
00:17:11
a.m. and on his way out he stops and he has a short conversation with Mike Henry
00:17:16
he's a night custodian at the at the Tribune Michael Boyd walks the parking lot and he gets to his car he will have
00:17:24
to actually pass Kent's car to get to his own car then he goes out to his car and when he's out there he sits there
00:17:32
for a little bit of time listening to some music when he sees Kent leaving work and going out to his car to leave
00:17:40
for the night all right why would you just get in your car and listen to music for a while before you leave it seems
00:17:46
strange to me at that hour right you know especially at that hour uh Michael pulls his car up alongside of Kent and
00:17:54
they have a discussion according to Michael Boyd this conversation it's a work conversation it takes place
00:18:00
sometime between 12 2:12 a.m. sorry and 2:20 a.m. mhm Michael Boyd says after the conversation he leaves in his car
00:18:12
and he's he goes to drive home as he's pulling out and into the alley he says that he nearly hit someone he sees two
00:18:19
people in the parking lot right uh this is not Kent Kent is not one of the people that he's describing here he he
00:18:25
younger people right well uh or does does he not make that claim to be clear all he says is that he sees Michael sees
00:18:33
two people and he cannot tell if the people are male or female so basically no description of the people anomalies
00:18:40
almost yeah so these two people could be Chuck and Ryan because they would have to have have arrived sometime in this
00:18:48
time frame to the parking lot at the Columbia Daily Tribune and you'll see why here in a minute so the attack would
00:18:56
go something like this Kent would be hit in the head or neck area about 11 or 12
00:19:02
times with some unknown object or the Tire Tool as chuck had said all right then as the victim Kent is down on all
00:19:11
fours from the blows he just took someone you know and that someone according to Chuck is Ryan pulls the
00:19:18
victim's belt off now he would have had to have done this according to the police by pulling by pulling up from the
00:19:27
leftand side you know from from like reaching around from behind Kent on the left side and grabbing the belt and
00:19:34
pulling it up and off right they came to this conclusion because two of the belt
00:19:39
loops on the left side of Kent's pants were ripped or torn off then using the victim's own belt
00:19:47
Ryan Ferguson strangled okay hold on a second so you're saying that they believe that the belt was ripped off of
00:19:53
him because there was two cuz the belt loops were broken two two of his belt loops were were ripped okay then using
00:20:01
the victim's own belt Ryan Ferguson strangled Kent height Holt a very short time before 2:26 a.m. a custodian this
00:20:11
is her name is shaa ort she stepped outside for a cigarette break or to walk some trash to the dumpster now or both
00:20:20
yeah my understanding is that sometimes a smoke break and walking trash to the dumpster are the same
00:20:27
thing anyway great reporting there there you go happen at the same time right anyway
00:20:34
she is out there and she she sees two shadowy figures near Kent's car she ran back inside to get her co-worker this is
00:20:44
Jerry Trump she's telling him that there is something going on in the parking lot
00:20:50
and she wanted him to go out there and see what it was he doesn't really want to do this but he gives in and he agrees
00:20:57
to go check it out so now the two of them well they are standing they're standing at one of those like um you
00:21:04
know kind of like a large overhead door you know they're standing just past the opening of that okay and at first they
00:21:11
don't see anything you know you know Jerry Trump's probably like oh great I agreed to come out here and check out
00:21:17
this thing you're just you're just freaking out for nothing there's nothing going on out here they don't see
00:21:22
anything yeah but sometimes that's scarier is when somebody says I see somebody outside and then you go and you
00:21:27
start looking and you go I I see nothing but sometimes that the the you're not as
00:21:33
relieved mhm well they see nothing at first they hear nothing at first M so Jerry Trump decides he he yells out
00:21:40
something like you know I see you you might as well come out you might as well stand up or something like that put your
00:21:45
hands up yeah and two individuals stand up and one of them is at the front of Kent's car near the front of the vehicle
00:21:54
MH the other one is at the rear of the vehicle so both both custodians witnessed two what they what they report
00:22:02
as white college age men now standing near Kent height Holt's vehicle they also both said that the man at the rear
00:22:11
of the vehicle he walked to the front of the car and said something to the effect
00:22:17
of you know this guy is hurt out here or you better call someone you better get call an ambulance something like that
00:22:23
that this this guy's hurt and he needs help so what you're saying is the these two two employees of the newspaper see
00:22:33
these two individuals in the parking lot ducking down possibly hiding behind Kent's car and then one of them kind of
00:22:41
Walks from the back of the car to the front and then says hey you better call ambulance this guy's hurt out here yeah
00:22:47
he says something like get help this guy's hurt now that's something you probably wouldn't say if you hurt the
00:22:52
guy um yeah I I don't know it's it's a it's a strange sit situation regardless right if you but if you're going to take
00:23:00
somebody's belt off put it around their throat and pull as hard as you can so they stop breathing I don't think you're
00:23:06
asking somebody to call ambulance no you want that guy dead for some reason yeah
00:23:10
you don't want him to be able to come to and and give information about you right
00:23:16
uh according to the police report the employees called 911 at 226 a.m. right which we heard that uh 911 call at the
00:23:25
beginning so if you want to hear it again go back to the beginning some of the other uh sport reporters working
00:23:32
that night uh came running out to see what was going on and they found 46-year-old Kent heol lying face down at
00:23:41
the rear of his car now they rolled him over and they tried to resuscitate him and of course unfortunately it didn't
00:23:48
work uh the police department was within just a few blocks of the newspaper parking lot in the newspapers building
00:23:55
so they arrived very quickly um when they got there they saw Kent had been severely beaten with some kind of blunt
00:24:03
object and he was strangled and dead at this point well we we both took a look at the autopsy but and we're not going
00:24:11
to go over in a bunch of details cuz it's pretty simple to summarize but they keep talking about this blunt object and
00:24:16
being hit well over 10 times um you even hear this in the interrogation with the
00:24:22
police and and Chucky mhm but they keep talking about a blunt object but there's
00:24:26
no skull fracture correct there's they don't find any skull fractures on Kent High hold um so
00:24:32
so it's death by strangulation as hyid bone is broken yeah and there's a little there's a little conjecture there's a
00:24:40
little back and forth on uh the hyoid bone being broken as well there's one expert that says that he believes the
00:24:46
hyoid bone was could have been broken because of he because he was hit he was hit about the the head and neck area um
00:24:55
but the original the original expert believes that the hyoid bone was broken during the strangulation process I don't
00:25:02
think that that is necessarily important I think the most important thing that I
00:25:06
see in the autopsy itself is like you said the number of times that that Kent is hit with they keep referring to it as
00:25:14
a blunt object right uh but like you said no skull fractur so to me it's more of uh he's hit 11 or 12 times with an
00:25:23
unknown object right but what was that expert telling you that one time uh like a you take a 10-year-old girl with a bat
00:25:33
or something and and there's going to be skull fractures actually this is it wasn't something that somebody told me
00:25:39
it was um a comment that was made to Ryan Ferguson's father to Bill Ferguson uh that he reported elsewhere stating
00:25:48
that you know it it was strange that there was no skull fractures because an expert quote unquote an expert according
00:25:54
to Bill Ferguson had told him that a 12-year-old girl with the baseball bat if she hits somebody 11 12 or even 15
00:26:02
times you're going to have several skull fractures not just one you're going to have you're going to you're going to get
00:26:09
a a few out of that so he's hit with some kind of unknown object we we'll call it that right and he doesn't so
00:26:15
he's not going to make it right and at this point Chuck Ericson claims that he and Ryan after having murdered Kent that
00:26:24
they take this kind of this very kind of roundabout way of walking back to the bar but before they get there this is at
00:26:32
approximately 2:30 a.m. they are at an intersection and there is a car there stopped at a red light uh and inside the
00:26:42
car well this this is somebody uh that the two boys know and his name is Dallas mallerie Dallas is in a car with two
00:26:51
young ladies Dallas is actually about 2 years older I believe than play play off
00:26:56
thanck ran well Chuck Erikson has a short conversation with Dallas mallerie at the at the red light yeah and Chucky
00:27:05
says how are you in the truck with two women that's all he asked well the the the light eventually turns green and
00:27:12
Away Dallas and the two girls go right so so now it's back to by George's for Chuck and Ryan and we'll get right back
00:27:20
to the case of Ryan Ferguson after this quick beer break this show is sponsored by better help do
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00:29:34
so after Ryan and Chuck Commit This murder they according to Chuck they go out with the motive of robbery they
00:29:44
attack Kent heol uh and they kill him in the parking lot now they've taken this roundabout way of making their way back
00:29:52
to the bar and they're back at by George's according to Chuck they get back to the bar around 2:45 a.m. and
00:30:02
they stay there drinking dancing having a good time until about 4: to 4:15 a.m. in the morning well these bars are open
00:30:09
pretty late and this only makes sense right cuz we we saw this with uh with the Casey Anthony thing right right you
00:30:15
know when when you kill somebody uh the best way to celebrate is to go to a bar and dance and party and have a good time
00:30:22
you know so now now now while the two of them are off having a good time right the police have a murder and a crime
00:30:29
scene to deal with here so the police are going to do a can9 search and I won't go through all of the street names
00:30:37
but basically the police dog is going to track slf follow the trail of the perpetrators and the dog leads them in
00:30:45
the opposite direction as to where Chuck Ericson says that they are going to go of course the dog the dog chase does not
00:30:54
turn up the perpetrators and we do have another problem here with this crime scene the
00:31:01
Tribune's parking lot well it has two two security cameras and these security cameras are very obvious you know
00:31:08
they're the type that would be up on the building and if you were walking by they
00:31:12
weren't hidden cameras you know you would you would notice them from the street and be aware that the parking lot
00:31:18
is under surveillance right however you know we unfortunately we see this time and time again in these situations the
00:31:26
these cameras are not working on this night oh really yeah so the police really have no leads other than the
00:31:34
description that they're given from the two custodians that they are looking for
00:31:38
two Caucasian College age dudes uh per the description given to them short hair one maybe blonde spiked up in the front
00:31:48
they do a uh they do a drawing of the this at least one of the individuals well yeah this is shaa ort and Jerry
00:31:55
Trump the the employe employes at the Daily Tribune um we should point out here that early in the investigation
00:32:03
Jerry Trump's statements were deemed as useless by the police okay as his description that he gave to them it was
00:32:12
so vague that it really provided them nothing of value you know he basically says I I I really couldn't see anything
00:32:19
I really couldn't see anything to describe these guys now as you had mentioned shaa ort uh on the other hand
00:32:26
uh with the with the police department's use of what they call like an identic Kate or an ID kit right uh they come up
00:32:33
with a composite sketch of the guy uh who walked from the rear of the vehicle to the front of Kent height hold's car
00:32:41
you know the the guy telling them to get help well right and shaa is she's younger and so we let's just assume she
00:32:48
has better eyes and uh I think she was what 18 or 19 at the time when she saw the saw she was pretty young and and
00:32:54
Trump and Trump was quite a bit older at the time yes um now basically the way that they come up with this composite
00:33:02
drawing it's it's that old school identic kit um and in some places they may call it something different but
00:33:08
basically what they do is Captain they'll show you they have like a flip book and they're like they'll show you a
00:33:13
bunch of different sets of eyes and you're like oh that looks like his eyes and they're like okay they they set
00:33:19
those eyes on the face and then they flip through the book more and they show you a nose like oh yeah that looks like
00:33:24
his nose and and so you piece together the person face well the problem with this drawing is again it's happening
00:33:31
very late at night or in the early mornings it's very dark out very low lighting so and then if and actually I
00:33:40
would say you know like during if it was during the day obviously you'd be it'd be easier to identify somebody I think
00:33:47
it would be way harder to do this identic kit when there's heavy Shadows from the street lights well I agree and
00:33:54
I don't know that it was fully like as as far as the way I heard the parking lot described I'm sure there are dark
00:34:00
spots and dark areas um Shauna states that when she saw the the man that she was able to come up with a composite
00:34:08
drawing of that that was she believed to be a what she considered a well-lit portion of the parking lot right again
00:34:15
but you're going to have these hard Shadows of course cuz all the lights are coming from above and if you watch any
00:34:20
of the documentaries on on this case it's you know you can see how dark that that area would have been
00:34:27
yeah and to go with the composite drawing um you know she describes the guy as a Caucasian male about 6ot tall
00:34:36
200 lb uh muscular build wearing a white T-shirt and has possibly has short blonde hair now some other things while
00:34:47
we are talking about the crime scene there was a blood trail which makes sense because we have a victim that was
00:34:53
beaten in the head you would expect a certain amount of of blood so there was a blood trail but this went in again in
00:35:01
a different direction than what Chuck said he and Ryan had fled the scene police found a hair either in or on the
00:35:10
hand of the victim this would be collected uh and later tested they did not find the blunt object or as chuck
00:35:19
had said the Tire Tool uh used to beat Kent uh they did not find that at the crime scene they did find the belt
00:35:27
buckle Kent's belt buckle it had broken off and was lying there near the uh near
00:35:33
Kent M they found fingerprints not matching the victim in and on the victim's vehicle uh and and one more thing though
00:35:42
the the police found no evidence to suggest Kent had been robbed um so keep in mind you trying to find the
00:35:51
motive yeah they're they're going to check the victim and try to come up with why would this guy be attacked well they
00:35:56
don't see any obvious signs that that robbery was the motive for this this attack or murder so at this point they
00:36:04
are looking for two young white dudes and they don't have a motive to go on at this point in their investigation well
00:36:11
and so we go to the following day the we I call this The Hangover day I mean we got two individuals that were 17 years
00:36:18
old they went partying uh Chucky was doing a blow drinking doing some Aderall uh and he claims that he doesn't
00:36:27
remember anything of the events the night before yeah he has no memory of Halloween night uh and also you know as
00:36:36
we said there there was nothing other than probably one heck of of a hangover like the captain pointed it out that
00:36:43
anything had went wrong or anything terrible had happened that night Chuck did not notice anything unusual he he
00:36:51
didn't have any injuries uh he didn't have any blood on his clothing um let's talk about let's
00:36:58
talk about Chuck for a minute though okay um you know as we had said earlier he's the same age is Ryan 17 at the time
00:37:06
of this murder and a high school student uh but but one big different thing here
00:37:12
is you know Ryan liked the party obviously like like some high school students do however chuck had a bit of a
00:37:19
history he had a he had a reputation for blacking out right and a history and a reputation for getting
00:37:27
really blitzed you know whether it being drinking or drugs or both um and he would from time to time do something bad
00:37:35
or embarrassing you know he would destroy he was known to destroy property or to get in fights right um and then
00:37:43
typically the next day he would have little to no memory of these events or the things that he had did well then
00:37:51
people would tell him what he had done and sometimes these memories well they would start to come back to him and
00:37:58
maybe sometimes they would not but it's my understanding that he had such a reputation for this kind of behavior
00:38:05
that often he was not invited to parties because nobody wanted him around nobody
00:38:10
wants the nobody wants the douche canoe breaking Furniture right you don't want you don't want that guy at your house
00:38:17
yeah cuz you're going to get busted by your parents if this guy destroy something second of all you don't want
00:38:22
him there if he's going to pick fights with your friends uh getting you know getting drunk destroying stuff and just
00:38:27
being basically a walking party Foul is is what Chuck Erikson would be Chucky Chucky AKA party Foul ericon so
00:38:38
let's okay before we fast forward let's go through what happened that night according to Ryan now of course this is
00:38:46
Who who okay so what we need to be clear about this okay all the reports that you
00:38:52
were just giving to fine beautiful people listening to the show all the reports that you're giving are are just
00:38:59
from from Chucky but also from the police correct it's basically the the the the general story that the
00:39:07
prosecutor SL police piece together about what took place that night right but like we all know there's three sides
00:39:15
to every story well according according to Ryan um you know and I didn't want to
00:39:20
mix the two stories because not only are they very different but um well let's say uh the night and the way things went
00:39:28
down according to Ryan let's say it was much less eventful um according to Ryan Ferguson he and Chuck did go to the bar
00:39:36
they went to by George's uh they met his sister there they had drinks um they left the bar at 1:30 a.m. so we're
00:39:44
already seeing a difference in time here right Ryan drove Chuck to Chuck's home and then Ryan continued on to his own
00:39:54
home arriving at his family's house around 1:40 a.m. so very a very quick drive from by George's to get Chuck home
00:40:02
and then Ryan takes himself home then in the early morning hours after he gets home uh from
00:40:10
1:41 a.m. to 29 a.m. Ryan calls several friends and then he goes to bed he's having murdered no one that evening uh
00:40:21
being and actually being according to his account he's at home at his family's home during the time of Kent height
00:40:28
Holt's murder yeah okay so we got two completely different stories mhm one story we got two murderers in the other
00:40:35
story we got a guy dropping a you know I dropped my buddy off we had a couple drinks dropped him off and dropping his
00:40:41
really drunk buddy off yeah um yeah not just drunk but high too so how about how
00:40:48
about we fast forward here Captain so let's let's fast forward to DeLorean 2003 Now by this time the murder it
00:40:56
remained an unsolved mystery you know in October of 2003 the local media again began they were covering the story they
00:41:04
were covering the murder and Chuck Erikson reportedly had several dreams about the crime after seeing an an
00:41:13
article in a newspaper and he couldn't get over the fact that he had been so close in proximity to where someone had
00:41:21
been murdered at about the same time right and he had almost no memory of that night well right because he has
00:41:29
that history of blacking out mhm and about a month later or so Chuck he he he read another article in the in the local
00:41:37
newspaper but this one included a sketch the sketch of the possible suspect in the case uh remember this was the one
00:41:45
given to police by the eyewitness shaa ort working at working that night at the Tribune mhm Chuck thought that the
00:41:52
sketch looked like himself now he now he's really starting to get concerned that he was somehow
00:42:01
involved in this murder now when when he's at this point when he gets really drunk he starts telling some people that
00:42:10
he thinks he's committed a murder or was at least involved in the murder of Kent
00:42:16
height hole well part part of this is you know you're not fully developed your your frontal cortex and all that stuff
00:42:23
I'm not a doctor so but you taking all those drugs right it's going to mess up your brain a little bit and I I think
00:42:32
this guy took so many drugs he fried his damn brain and maybe too often you know
00:42:37
is it is it the same thing are you beating your brain the same level as like getting multiple concussions over
00:42:42
and over again with what he's doing he's blacking out yeah and how many times is
00:42:46
he hit in his head when he's drunk too I mean that's that's another good point MH
00:42:50
so now he's getting really drunk and he starts telling people that he thinks he may have committed the murder or he's at
00:42:55
least involved in in the murder well he this is definitely not helping you know you with your friends there Chucky yeah
00:43:01
you already had this bad reputation now this guy gets drunk he breaks Furniture he he tries to fight people and then now
00:43:09
he's confessing to murders don't invite this guy to your party rule number one it's not going to be a good time it's
00:43:15
not going to work out well for you you're not going to be the popular kid in school stop inviting Chucky to the
00:43:20
party it sounds like he only told two people these were his friends this is only two people people would hang out
00:43:26
what the crazy dude this is Nick Gilpin and art figuro and the thing is I don't know if the he told these these two guys
00:43:35
on separate occasions or you know if he told them together on several occasions I'm not certain but as as I've heard it
00:43:43
he's only told two people I I'm assuming that he told Nick Gilpin the story one time and then old Captain Gilpin was
00:43:51
like I'm not hanging out with you no more Chucky uh well it's through these two friends uh that Chuck is is you know
00:44:01
that it's later let's hold on for a second just think about this way you're Nick Gilpin right mhm you're hanging out
00:44:08
with Chucky so you don't have a lot of options right this guy breaks stuff gets in
00:44:15
fights and then he tells you he tells you he murdered somebody right mhm or he thinks he did what how low do you have
00:44:23
to be how bored how lonely do you to be to pick up the phone and say call him up
00:44:29
again I'm going to call Chucky up and see if he wants hang out you got to be pretty lonely right we
00:44:35
get some more details about that murder uh well it's through these two friends that the police are later notified and
00:44:42
told that Chuck Erikson uh was one was the one who killed the newspaper reporter or that was involved in the
00:44:51
newspaper reporter's death that took place two years ago so in are you still with me so far in March
00:45:00
of 2004 okay well okay so we have we have the the event happens on Halloween mhm two years later Chuck is having
00:45:10
these dreams he starts telling people starts telling people they contact the cops and even if the look if if somebody
00:45:16
gets drunk and starts telling you they murder somebody call the cops that's what you do mhm um so they call the cops
00:45:22
now the cops need to talk to Chucky yeah so in March of 2004 the Columbia police
00:45:29
department they pick up Chuck Erikson and they question him mhm well not too long after and in fact I believe it was
00:45:36
later that same day they call another Police Department because by this time Ryan was off at uh junior college and
00:45:45
they have Ryan Ferguson arrested as well well these two questionings by police uh
00:45:51
go very differently um and let's talk about this uh let's talk about this starting with Chuck okay so you played
00:46:00
uh some of that interrogation for us right and you know you see in the questioning there's there's a couple
00:46:06
different levels of questioning that take place here first off there's some questioning that goes down off camera
00:46:12
there's some that goes down on camera and there's also a questioning period that takes place on camera where they're
00:46:18
driving him to the crime scene and they're driving him around the area so he can you know they can point things
00:46:25
out to him and they can kind of ask him where did you guys come from uh did you enter the parking lot this way which way
00:46:32
did you exit where did you go after the murder you know uh can you tell us where
00:46:37
his car was parked things like that you know they have to take him there well regarding the questioning or SL
00:46:46
interrogation of Chuck Ericson it's what would you say it's disconcerning Captain it's unethical so
00:46:55
we have a guy here the problem is though they picked this guy up and he's saying
00:47:00
you know I maybe maybe I was involved in this thing I I don't know it's it's I I
00:47:07
blacked out that night I have very little memory he says something like uh he he's seeing almost snapshots uh of of
00:47:15
the of the night well they're going to they're going to it looked to me Captain like it started off like kind of a
00:47:24
friendly questioning period and at some point they start getting you know we see
00:47:29
the typical well here's what the detectives do they like to spread their legs very
00:47:36
wide mhm and they like to get in a little tiny baby chair and then they scoot up really close you know so their
00:47:43
whole you know cocking balls and everything are right on the guy's knee and then they're looking deep into their
00:47:49
eyes and they start saying stuff like you need to tell me the truth you're not telling me the truth
00:47:56
so that yeah starts off friendly then they do the whole let me get right in your grill two CP little bit later they
00:48:04
back up they also once things are going their way they like to do do the lean back mhm you know what I'm talking about
00:48:11
where they they are starting to get answers so they do the lean back well and they keep you they keep you
00:48:17
positioned back in the corner and they they stay right in front of you in your face right but once they start getting
00:48:22
answers they like to back up and do the lean back you know like oh let's make this more comfortable for you and when
00:48:29
you're not telling me the truth I'm going to make it uncomfortable for you well and they're also constantly
00:48:34
reminding that reminding you that you did this that you are guilty they they will emphasize that word you and they
00:48:43
will often point at you when they do that or or touch you in some manner to remind you that it that it is you that
00:48:50
is under the microscope right it's not it's not a whole bunch of other people that they're looking at they have
00:48:55
circled and on you yeah so a couple things one I feel for the detectives because there's no real leads they had
00:49:02
nothing to go on all of a sudden two years later you have this guy Chucky coming forward saying I'm having these
00:49:07
dreams I have a history of blacking out I might have been involved mhm okay so yes the cops need to get to the bottom
00:49:15
of this so I I look I I normally would say no way shape or form should you ever feed
00:49:22
details but I think in this case I'm going give him a little bit of a pass because this guy is saying I don't know
00:49:30
I don't know a bunch of the details where I'm not going to give you a pass is once Chucky brings somebody else into
00:49:36
the equation and once he brings up Ryan Ferguson into the equation your job now is to if you want to find out if he's
00:49:46
telling you the truth you need to focus on trying to prove him wrong mhm and that's what they should have done first
00:49:53
I I'm going to halfway agree with you because it sounds like you're saying if if it were just Chuck that was that was
00:49:59
implicating himself and no one else that it's fine to give up the details not not
00:50:04
fine to give up all the details right because the problem I have with that is the whole purpose of withholding those
00:50:11
details is that so you avoid false confessions and if you start just giving away information that's really going to
00:50:18
help this person whether they did it or not uh get the right answers let's right
00:50:24
so where do we have a problem with some of these things well but what I'm saying
00:50:28
though is you could drive him to the scene you could do certain things uh may you know maybe try hypnosis or whatever
00:50:35
just to see if you can get these memories to come back to the service but I'm not telling them I'm
00:50:41
not saying that you should say uh what the guy was strangled with or details like that no definitely not right and
00:50:48
and in the beginning of the questioning or interrogation it it appears uh and we
00:50:53
we can see it on TV we see it on the camera footage uh it appears that Erikson that Chuck has little knowledge
00:51:00
of the crime um and at one point he tells the police I could be sitting here fabricating all of this right now as the
00:51:10
captain was hinting towards there uh they want some detailed information you know they want to know what did you what
00:51:18
was Kent strangled with okay um how many times was he hit what was he hit with okay so let's go through that as such he
00:51:29
he states that they they took something from Ryan's car and that's what they are
00:51:33
going to attack Kent with and he assumed like a tire iron yes again now if you hit now he was hit about 15 times if you
00:51:42
hit somebody 15 times in the head the tire iron there's going to be a skull fracture MH and maybe not Chucky cuz
00:51:49
Chucky's a small guy but you give a a pretty good athlete and Ryan Ferguson a tire iron there's not going to be skull
00:51:58
fractures it's going to be a mutilated skull one thing we should point out too though to paint a bit of a better
00:52:04
picture for everybody is uh I would actually I would actually consider both Chuck and Ryan to be smaller dudes um
00:52:14
you know I think what Ryan was 5'8 5'9 uh and we have Chuck who's who's about 5'7 um and and and the reason why I say
00:52:24
smaller dudes is that in comparison to Kent heol Kent heol was well over six foot and he he was a large dude he he
00:52:32
played offensive line for for some college before he became a sports writer so yes I understand that they might be
00:52:40
armed with this tire iron or some blunt object or unknown object but it it does seem strange to me that these two
00:52:49
teenage boys would pick a very large male victim to to attempt to Rob yeah but Ryan Ryan was you know he's
00:53:01
athletic um yeah I don't know uh I don't know exactly what his height is but he he he definitely looked very athletic MH
00:53:11
um anyway so as we were stating they need to know what he was hit with and furthermore who hit him and how many
00:53:18
times was he hit with this object well here's one thing that I found really strange about that interrogation you saw
00:53:27
this you know he says how many times was did was Kent hit did you hit Kent uh once he's like no come on we know we
00:53:35
know Chuck that he was hit a lot more than one time mhm and then he throws out some other number that's not correct and
00:53:43
then the the uh detective corrects him and he says now we know that Kent that you hit Kent 15 times is that right and
00:53:52
eventually Chuck gives into this and says yes I hit him 15 times right and this is what I find is so unethical well
00:53:59
not only that the strange part of this thing here is Captain is first of all it's incredibly unethical second of all
00:54:06
the detective fed him information but fed him wrong information he says 15 times the the autopsy report States 11
00:54:15
or 12 times the detective didn't even bother to get the wrong you know the wrong information right right right and
00:54:22
and so he feeds him some bad information and we have Chuck valid that andate with
00:54:29
that and says yes you know yeah 15 but there's a couple times that Chuck is going you know what but I don't really
00:54:36
know I don't really know if I'm telling you the truth or not right and then then
00:54:41
they want to know okay what what did you use to strangle Kent I don't know his T-shirt yeah and actually I I thought
00:54:50
when I viewed the the the full length of the of the questioning the interrogation
00:54:56
yeah I I thought that I saw him almost react he didn't verbally say it but it looked like his his U his body language
00:55:05
was suggesting that he was about to say his hands you know what I mean like yeah
00:55:09
CU he said you know did did Ryan how did Ryan choke him like again implementing Ryan and not Chucky and and he makes I
00:55:17
saw Ryan uh hands you know kind of the symbol he makes a gesture about choking with his hands the Homer Simpson I'm
00:55:24
going to choke Bart Type move so yeah and and they were like no that's not right and he's like well maybe a t-shirt
00:55:31
yeah cuz he states that the officer would tell him you know it might have been something of Kent that was used to
00:55:39
to strangle him and and as you said at first he says a T-shirt and he said no it wasn't his T-shirt and then you hear
00:55:46
this is like questioning like a five-year-old you know that like took a crap on in the family room that that
00:55:54
that's what what this question reminds me of well and then you you hear him say so he says no it wasn't a t-shirt Chuck
00:56:02
then Chuck says maybe it was a bungee cord I don't know because I couldn't see him having a rope in his car right
00:56:09
doesn't Mak any sense to me why he would have a rope in his car yeah so so all right well let's examine that it
00:56:15
obviously wasn't a t-shirt no no start with it wasn't with his hands right wasn't strangled with his hands he
00:56:21
wasn't strangled with a t-shirt wasn't strangled with a bunch cord wasn't strangled with a rope and it wasn't
00:56:27
something that was taken from the victim's car it was something that was taken off of the victim right right so
00:56:33
after five wrong answers after five wrong answers maybe you as a detective should go hey this guy doesn't
00:56:42
know jack [ __ ] yeah right yeah he does he doesn't know what's going on yeah but
00:56:48
right so at what point does the does the detective say hey this is ridiculous this is is nonsense not
00:56:57
only and here's what they do they feed him all this information they feed Chucky all this information they get a
00:57:04
tape confession they think maybe this can hold up and then they pull Ryan Ferguson in well you know and I'm not
00:57:11
even ready to go that far yet because I'm still on the Belt thing here you know we the the officer tells just
00:57:18
outright tells him yeah he was strangled with his own belt no no he sits back with just this cocky son of a [ __ ] type
00:57:27
attitude he's just sitting back and he goes I'm I was kind of holding this from you I was keeping this back from you I
00:57:35
didn't want to tell you but it was a belt that's pretty much exactly what he says right mhm and Chuck says something
00:57:42
like well I don't remember that at all like he seems surprised like that that's the murder weapon like like shocked um
00:57:50
no no he he doesn't even understand what he's saying mhm because CU all of a sudden then Chucky says wait a second
00:57:58
his with his own belt right not Ryan's Belt but his own belt mhm oh like flabbergasted like like this is the
00:58:08
first time he's thinking somebody pulled up on Kent knocked him in his head 10 times 11 times pulled this dude's belt
00:58:17
off of him strangled him with his own belt you have to be a vicious SOB to do that
00:58:26
well and like you said it's he's his reaction is almost like getting fired up man well Chuck's reaction is almost like
00:58:34
I'm trying to help you out here guys but I would not have guessed that you know on my best day I would not have guessed
00:58:40
his own belt on my best day right so anyway then now they got to figure out what is the motive why would you guys go
00:58:47
and attack this large man uh that you don't know in the middle of a parking lot you don't know did nothing to you
00:58:55
and here's the answer that you get after all after you go through all of these details the answer that you get is well
00:59:02
I guess if we killed him then I assume we would have done it for money right but no sign of robbery mhm
00:59:13
right right this is this is unethical horrible horrible police work MH and and I believe just like and we'll talk about
00:59:24
this later you know a a prosecutor for example can't just make up fake evidence right and there's laws against that and
00:59:34
you can face jail time just like I think you know now that we require people to tap these
00:59:42
interviews they need to be well aware that if you cross the line or you do some ridiculous dumb [ __ ] that you can
00:59:50
face jail time MH and I believe in this case that these detectives doing the interrogation they deserve jail time cuz
00:59:58
these interrogations were so unethical you signed up to Serve and Protect not to make up [ __ ] lies and put
01:00:05
innocent people behind bars well the thing here is when they're talking to Ryan Ferguson it's a much different
01:00:13
story you know uh we have we have Ryan Ferguson basically denying everything well do you you want to just hear that
01:00:20
clip yeah [Music] I did not do anything I did not see anything but and I'm here for murder like I
01:00:34
didn't do Chuck says that he got kind of sick to his stomach after you hit this guy during that time uh he looks over
01:00:42
and sees you on top of the the guy who's down and you're choking him out he says
01:00:47
strangling you you believe this I I I believe Chuck probably had something to do with it he said
01:00:55
all right well I mean he could very well been a part of it I'm not you were Cal as up when we come down there we start
01:01:01
talking about the murder you like I do it wasn't there don't know what you're talking about if Poli pull me and say we
01:01:04
want to talk about a murder I'm going to be get about half crazy I am half crazy
01:01:09
dude I'm sorry I'm good at hiding my emotions I'm shaking like here I didn't do anything about to get in trouble for
01:01:16
something I didn't [Music] do all right so that's uh little pieces of the Ryan Ferguson interrogation I got to
01:01:31
tell you Captain I watched that thing and I thought that Ryan actually held it together pretty well um not in a way
01:01:39
that would imply to me that he's guilty like the detective was trying to point out um you know stating that oh if
01:01:45
somebody pulled me in for murder I'd be mad as hell well what's crazy to me is he does appear to be mad as hell to me
01:01:51
yeah but and um and a I think a mature way I mean one you're getting in question about a night that happened two
01:01:58
two years ago so think about that night might be very insignificant to you and then somebody's questioning you about it
01:02:07
and you're going well I I don't really remember cuz and the reason why I say that he appears to be mad at times you
01:02:13
know but but but controlled right is that you see him at times where there's like a split second where he'll he'll
01:02:19
smack the table and he's like man I'm telling you I've told you a hundred times I didn't do this I wasn't there I
01:02:25
don't know what else I can say MH and then second of all you'll see a couple times where he will raise his voice to
01:02:32
the detectives basically making the same argument I don't know how to tell you this any differently than I was not
01:02:38
there right but but what drives me nuts and I I've said this I think since we started looking into this case is when
01:02:46
you watch these these tapes uh Chucky doesn't make any damn sense right mm uh the detectives make no damn sense at all
01:02:56
the only one that's not in this crazy make believe world is is Ryan he seems like the only one that is
01:03:04
is speaking with any logical sense right so I mean just like with the detectives
01:03:11
if you can't get Chucky to remember anything or if all of his details are different and conflicting of the
01:03:20
evidence that you know that you have studied he's not your guy you know what I mean mhm so it makes zero logical
01:03:28
sense to keep pursuing down that road and I like that he says you know at some point he kind of gives in because he
01:03:34
says you know every time he says I didn't do this I wasn't there well then at some point the police start coming
01:03:42
back with the argument well well Chuck was there and we know Chuck did this and you were with Chuck and his his answer
01:03:47
is the same every time he goes okay well fine maybe Chuck did do this maybe Chuck
01:03:52
was there I was not right I didn't do this and then you know he he's asked you see that part where the um the one
01:04:00
detective comes in and he tries to play the good cop you know oh I have a son your age and when I when I look at you
01:04:08
I'm seeing my son so I'm here to I'm here to help you get this off your chest and I'm here to help you talk about this
01:04:14
you know sometimes we do things that we don't mean to do right and for whatever reason we don't know why we do them you
01:04:20
know but he sticks with it you know Ryan is STI with it he says I would have said
01:04:26
hey sorry I'm I'm sorry I'm not a douche like your son but I didn't do this the the thing here is you know not only did
01:04:34
I not only only am I innocent of the murder I'm innocent of having even been there yeah and never was even there now
01:04:42
the police they're stuck in this bad situation okay you know it obviously looks like Ryan's in a bad situation and
01:04:49
Chuck is in a bad situation but the police unbeknownst to the two boys the police they need something because as we
01:04:57
pointed out earlier you know they don't have a lot to go on other than this confession that they've got from this
01:05:05
Chuck Ericson MH and then the person that's supposedly with him Ryan Ferguson is saying the exact opposite I was not
01:05:12
there I I'm not guilty of anything they need someone to somewhat back up Chuck's
01:05:17
story okay so who who would well and also their story it's a collaborative story at this point you're exactly right
01:05:24
who would have seen you there that night oh well you know Chuck points out that at some point after the murder while we
01:05:32
were leaving and going on on our way back to the bar at this intersection we saw this guy that we knew and his name
01:05:39
is his name is Dallas mallerie we saw him he was at a red light in a vehicle with two girls I had a brief
01:05:46
conversation with him at the intersection before the light turned green and he took off well they bring in
01:05:52
this Dallas mallerie and he says I did not see those I did not see Chuck I did not see Ryan I saw neither of those guys
01:06:02
at an intersection in the early morning hours of November 1st he goes on to say I didn't see those guys on Halloween
01:06:09
night either MH well the police keep coming back to him and they say well we know Dallas we know that you saw them
01:06:18
because Chuck keeps saying that he saw you that he had a conversation with you and at some point Dallas is saying you
01:06:24
know like you pointed out Captain this is at least two years ago so Dallas is like he's confused he's like
01:06:32
well how about this if Chuck says he saw me then what was I wearing that night well they go to Chuck and they talk to
01:06:44
Chuck and Chuck says well Dallas was dressed up for Halloween to go to the Halloween parties he was dressed up as a
01:06:51
police officer mhm and of course the uh the detectives go back to Dallas mallerie and they say he says he saw you
01:06:59
you were dressed like a police officer and Dallas mallerie says H I was I was wearing a police uniform that night that
01:07:08
was my character for the Halloween parties uh then then I must if he says that that's what I was wearing then I
01:07:15
must have seen those guys that night right cuz how would he know mhm so now that they have somebody backing up
01:07:21
Chucky's story and their story they're combin efforts to create this elaborate story they're going to charge Chucky and
01:07:28
then they're going to go on trial to charge Ryan Ferguson yeah and and I think let's cover that in tomorrow's
01:07:34
episode we we should talk about how this gets to trial talk about the trial itself the things that they got right
01:07:40
the things they got wrong and where this ends up getting us in the end well yeah
01:07:44
tons to dive into tomorrow until then check out true Crim garage.com go to the store Page we got the tank tops for sale
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