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GameChanger [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you
00:01:44
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who has trimmed the hedges of many small
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villages he is the captain they call me alapo it's good to be seen and it's good
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to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] today we are very proud to be featuring
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17.5 % only and I repeat only drink this one at home in your own garage garage grade 4 and 3/4 bottle caps out of five
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and this experience was brought to us by a handful of our good garage friends like Laura and caloo Michigan and a big
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shout out to Sydney from Bend Oregon next up we have Kathy in Kena Iowa Kathy says Nick if you can't pronounce that I
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will just be from Parts Unknown well I gave it a shot Kathy hopefully I got close and a big we like your jib to
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Natalie from New York New York next up we have Hillary from Louisville Kentucky and last but not least we
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have and last but not least we have Sarah from Great Falls Montana everybody that we just mentioned went to True Crim
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garage.com and donated to this week's beer fund and for that we thank you and we're a little bit behind on the beer
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fun shout out so be patient young filthy animals and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather
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around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime a real estate agent gets a call from a
00:04:09
potential buyer the young ambitious real estate agent receives the type of call that all realators dream of a motivated
00:04:18
buyer wants to purchase a home and has a large budget the buyer wants to find a place
00:04:27
fast but things that seem too good to be true are usually just that the agent met
00:04:34
with some mysterious clients to show them a beautiful home that met their specifications but once inside the agent
00:04:44
was brutally and viciously killed her attackers fled into the night who would want to kill this pretty and
00:04:54
vivacious young professional and why would they set up a sham real estate deal to get to her and
00:05:02
probably the most important thing to ask is why would anyone want her dead with this crime it appears that
00:05:12
motive may be the fastest road to finding the killer this week we will be discussing
00:05:20
the true story of the unsolved murder of Lindsay Buc the investigation into her killing
00:05:28
has been almost lost in the sheer volume of misinformation out there surrounding
00:05:34
this case it is rare to find a case that is so cluttered with false facts unfounded
00:05:41
rumors baseless allegations and downright contradictory evidence what you will hear this week is
00:05:50
not what you will hear elsewhere we will discuss the actual concrete facts as stated by police investigators and
00:05:58
sources close to the investigation all of the other stuff the rumors and unsubstantiated innuendo we will get
00:06:07
into that when necessary if you've heard of the case of Lindsay boak or even if you have not get ready for the truth
00:06:15
surrounding this case this is true crime garage and this is the case Lindsay buak
00:06:32
[Music] Victoria is the capital city of British Columbia the Canadian province located
00:06:43
on the southernmost tip of Vancouver Island this is close proximity to Seattle on the US side of the border and
00:06:51
to the large Canadian city of Vancouver across the water Victoria has a large population of over 350 50,000 in its
00:07:00
greater metro area but it feels smaller and more intimate than its number suggest most people are connected
00:07:08
somehow and know or are acquainted with many other locals in other words everyone pretty much knows each other or
00:07:17
knows of one another on February 2nd 2008 a 24-year-old realer named Lindsay buak was scheduled to show a house to
00:07:27
some potential clients Lindsay was new to the business she started about a year before and at this
00:07:34
time she had not sold that many homes yet but she loved the job and she was enthusiastic about her future in the
00:07:42
residential housing business Lindsay was a very outgoing young woman who was energetic and ambitious and she had a
00:07:50
lot of friends she also had a sister named Sarah with whom she was very close and she was also close with her mother
00:07:58
Evelyn who lived in the area and she had a good relationship with her father Jeff
00:08:05
Lindsay's parents were divorced and lived hundreds of miles apart Lindsay mentioned to some colleagues and friends
00:08:13
that she was excited because she had been contacted by some very motivated potential new clients this has been
00:08:19
backed up in interviews with her close Circle Lindsay received a call on Friday February 1st the call was from a woman
00:08:27
and from Lindsay's notes in her day planner and from what friends and colleagues have related we can piece
00:08:33
together the conversations she had with this female client the woman caller spoke in a thick accent that Lindsay
00:08:40
could not specifically identify but which led her to nickname the woman and her husband the Mexicans in her cell
00:08:49
phone this woman called Lindsay out of the blue she said that she and her husband were coming to the area for 3
00:08:56
Days to look at houses they they were beneficiaries of a corporate relocation package and they had to find a house
00:09:04
very quickly she specified that they saw a new three-bedroom three-bath home which was moveing ready 15 to 20 minutes
00:09:14
from downtown with a large master bedroom and a separate space for a housekeeper what truly perked Lindsay's
00:09:22
ears the woman said they could spend up to $1 million on a home now Lindy did not receive this call on her business
00:09:32
phone line at the Remax office that she worked out of she received this call on her personal cell phone her cell number
00:09:39
was available posted publicly on some of her listings Lindsay was a lesser known
00:09:46
Junior agent so she did find it strange that the woman contacted her so Lindsay asked the woman how she got her
00:09:55
information the woman told her she was referred to her her by a former client of Lindsay's she told Lindsay this
00:10:03
person's name and it has been reported that Lindsay called the former client but that lady was traveling and could
00:10:10
not be reached in any event this $1 million deal would be very big for a junior agent and Lindsay jumped at the
00:10:19
chance to find homes that would meet the client's requirements over the next 24 hours
00:10:26
there were six calls back and forth between Lindsay and the clients of course we do not know what was actually
00:10:33
said during those calls we do know that the couple and Lindsay made an appointment to see a specific house one
00:10:42
that was listed by some other Remax agents likely known to Lindsay the appointment was set for 5:30 on Saturday
00:10:51
February 2nd to see the home at 1702 deusa place in sanch this is an upscale suburb of of Victoria there are reports
00:11:01
that they scheduled showings at five different homes and 1702 D sua was to be the first of these appointments now some
00:11:11
Reports say that in one of the calls the female client told Lindsay that she would be attending the showing alone as
00:11:19
her husband was Ill there are other reports that say that it was the opposite that Lindsay was told only the
00:11:26
husband would attend the fact fact is we don't know for sure as only Lindsay and
00:11:32
the clients know the content of those conversations now the house on doosa place was a new build that was sitting
00:11:41
on the market for close to a year the asking price was $964 th000 it was situated on a new
00:11:51
subdivision on a CAC named for the developer of the new Street John desosa his company owned the 1702
00:12:01
property he reportedly was present on a building site nearby on that day and wrapped things up by 5:00 p.m. and left
00:12:10
for the day as did the construction workers building another house on the street the culdesac was located off of a
00:12:18
residential Road this is tqu Drive which was aligned with houses now we're going
00:12:23
to have two eyewitnesses from the neighborhood that night and what these two witness reported seeing was a young
00:12:31
dark-haired woman presumably to be Lindsay greeting and shaking hands with two other adults outside of the doosa
00:12:39
place property that evening yeah one male and one female so one witness was driving by in a vehicle he confirmed
00:12:48
seeing three people the other witness was a little more detailed this was a woman walking her dog she was able to
00:12:55
provide police with a description of the couple that Lindsay was talking to M this was a
00:13:01
man and a woman it appeared to her that the couple did not know the young brunette did not know Lindsay she also
00:13:09
reported a car parked in the driveway so note here we have one vehicle three people this car that was parked in the
00:13:18
driveway was later confirmed to be Lindsay's vehicle after shaking hands the three then walked toward the home
00:13:27
the lock box to the doosa place address was accessed at 5:29 p.m. this would be when Lindsay used the key in the lock
00:13:37
boox to enter the home with the clients so no car other than Lindsay was parked in the CAC or in the driveway of the
00:13:47
home according to these two witnesses at 5:45 pm Lindsay's boyfriend Jason Zoo he's a mortgage broker and a
00:13:58
realtor at the same company as Lindsay he pulled up outside of the home Jason was accompanied by a friend named
00:14:06
cohenan Cohen worked with Jason and the two were on a hockey team together and they actually had a game later that
00:14:14
evening Jason was exchanging text with Lindsay prior to his arrival but Jason not being able to reach his girlfriend
00:14:23
eventually went up to the front door of the home and tried the handle the door was lock locked Jason recognized that
00:14:31
during a showing the door should not be locked further he saw Lindy's shoes black heels lying on the floor in the
00:14:39
entryway which isn't that uncommon cuz a lot of times when they have showings they make you remove your shoes this was
00:14:47
a bit he found it to be strange but only in combination with his inability to reach her so right you got to factor in
00:14:55
all these things he sees the shoes in the entryway the door is locked which he found odd plus she is aware that he is
00:15:02
going to meet her at this property and she's not responding to any of his Tex well and also he's meeting her there cuz
00:15:10
she feels odd about the meeting in general she feels a little suspicious of these two individuals so she kind of ask
00:15:17
him to be there something doesn't feel right to her I mean that she's one getting a million dooll listing call
00:15:25
with being such a young agent and then on top of that the accent doesn't make sense to her and
00:15:32
then again on top of that now one of them's going to be sick and so they're just going to show up as one person
00:15:38
instead of a couple well let's go through what he found because there is a good reason for debate on his motivation
00:15:47
for meeting her at that property that night so once he is kind of set on alarm here right the door's locked he's unable
00:15:57
to reach her he he is then going to interrupt the showing and this is he rang the doorbell he knocked repeatedly
00:16:06
when no one answered he called 911 at 6:05 p.m. requesting police to do a welfare check on the property now not
00:16:15
satisfied with waiting for the cops Jason and Cohen circled the house and noted that the French doors facing the
00:16:23
fenced patio on tqu drive on that side uh they were open so Cohen got over the fence and this has been reported two
00:16:34
ways some Reports say that Jason boosted Cohen over the fence others say that there was a gap in the fence where some
00:16:42
boards were missing and Cohen slipped through there while Jason was on the phone with 911 now Cohen entered the
00:16:49
home through the French doors that were already open he walked inside passing through the downstairs to the front door
00:16:57
unlocking ing it to let Jason inside then a second 911 call came in at 6:11 p.m. this time from inside the
00:17:08
house at 1702 desosa the caller Jason reported finding Lindsay on her back lying on the floor in the corner of the
00:17:17
master bedroom seemingly dead and lots of blood in the room there was no one else in the house and they had not seen
00:17:26
anyone leave the police arrived and Jason and Cohen were taken to the police station for questioning Lindsay was
00:17:34
beyond help the CBC reported that she died of multiple stab wounds they have never confirmed the extent of the
00:17:43
injuries they are keeping this information to themselves the scene was secured crime scene tape was put up
00:17:50
around the house crime scene texts began processing the home and the detectives combed through the home and canvased the
00:17:58
the neighborhood so police have not officially confirmed that the 911 caller was Jason or Cohen and they have not
00:18:07
even officially confirmed that it was they who found Lindsay remember they're keeping a lot of this stuff to
00:18:13
themselves but we know this because Jason has given some interviews notably to dline and participated in a police
00:18:22
reenactment of what happened when he entered the home through the front door sanch police Sergeant Chris horley has
00:18:31
also given interviews relaying Jason's movements as he arrived at the house and found Lindsay so let's get into what we
00:18:40
know about Lindsay's movements that day the text between Jason and Lindsay and what was found at the murder scene so
00:18:49
Lindsay and Jason were living together they had ate lunch that day at a restaurant called sauce they paid the
00:18:56
bill there at 425 4 p.m. and they left in separate vehicles we aren't certain where Lindsay went directly after this
00:19:05
lunch but some reports state that she told Jason that she was going home to change her clothes before her meeting
00:19:12
mhm Jason left to go meet Cohen and the two went to an auto shop called shc where Jason was doing a mortgage
00:19:23
deal the two were seen on surveillance camera outside of shc at 5:30 p.m. this is them getting into Jason's Range Rover
00:19:34
now around this time Jason texted Lindsay saying I'll come meet you and I'll be 10 to 15 minutes or so Lindsay
00:19:44
responded okay I'll see you in a bit I got to go the Mexicans are here let's be clear we don't know if
00:19:53
these individuals are in fact Mexican right this is simply a nickname right that that Lindsay gave to these
00:20:02
potential clients I find this all very strange for a multitude of reasons one we can see
00:20:10
online her daily planner where she took notes from the call that she received from the woman with the thick accent
00:20:16
that Lindsay could not identify right I what I find weird here is it doesn't seem to indicate well not that it
00:20:24
doesn't seem it does not indicate in her notes the name of these potential clients right and then on top of that in
00:20:32
her cell phone she nickn nicknames them the Mexicans this based off of what she said was a weird accent right I also I
00:20:41
think it wasn't just that it was weird that it came off phony to her so at 5:38 p.m. Jason texted Lindsay's phone again
00:20:52
this time saying just a couple of minutes away this text was never read on Lindsay's
00:20:59
end at 5:41 p.m. Lindsay's Blackberry made a call to a contact in her phone this is to a friend that Lindsay had not
00:21:09
spoken to in quite some time the friend can hear some things M but it is muffled
00:21:17
and jumbled and there's really nothing clearly audible to the friend police believe that this call was a butt dial
00:21:25
that somehow during the attack a button on Lindsay's Blackberry was pressed and the call went out as she was being
00:21:33
attacked MH sergeant horley said quote so we believe that was actually at the point of attack when the couple attacked
00:21:43
Lindsay somehow it hit buttons on the BlackBerry and it sent out a phone call end quote the Blackberry was found in
00:21:53
Lindsay's pocket after she was killed as said the a tosy findings in Lindsay's case have never been released we know
00:22:02
that she was stabbed to death a press conference held by the sanch police confirmed that Lindsay died from quote
00:22:08
multiple stab wounds but police have never explained or expanded on this information right the the rumor is what
00:22:17
over 40 stabo oh man okay let's get into some of these rumors and just a real quick disclaimer this is going to be one
00:22:24
of the more brutal parts of of this case but keep in mind these are not facts these are what what I'm calling I'm
00:22:33
calling these internet facts where they're they're really just rumor okay so ones that I found was that she was
00:22:40
stabbed 54 times in the chest and head one stating that she was stabbed 40 times and then one that as you mentioned
00:22:49
stabbed over 40 times mhm she was stabbed where her new breast implants yeah Lindsay had a recently got
00:23:00
breast enhancements and and those were mutilated they said right so yeah to further that rumor people say they were
00:23:08
deliberately or intentionally mutilated and then we have the other statement of that she was nearly
00:23:16
decapitated again to be perfectly clear these are just rumors there has never been any official confirmation of the
00:23:24
extent of her injuries or the number of times she was stabbed or the bodily areas where she was stabbed there's many
00:23:32
many cases that the person dies from knife injuries that you hear rumors of almost
00:23:40
decapitated yes so we have a source that is close to the investigation and this is author Gary Rogers whom we were able
00:23:50
to talk to while covering this case he's working on a book about the case now G har says that he was privy to the
00:24:00
autopsy report and he did share some of this information with us and this is information I have not heard elsewhere
00:24:09
he says Lindsay was the victim of between 10 to 15 stab wounds to be clear and to credit Gary Rogers he's being
00:24:21
somewhat vague on that number because we're not going to compromise the investigation that that has not been
00:24:26
released to the public public now this quote from Sergeant horley provides some more information stating when they went
00:24:36
upstairs there's a master bedroom and an in Suite bathroom we know meaning law enforcement that when Lindsay turned to
00:24:45
show the inite bathroom she was then attacked from the rear there's no defensive wounds whatsoever we don't
00:24:54
believe she had any pre- indication that something was a Miss Gary tells us that
00:25:01
Lindsay was in fact attacked from behind almost certainly with a large knife and
00:25:07
incapacitated by severing her central nervous system this means her spinal cord was severed by the knife she was
00:25:15
then rolled over and stabbed in the chest area and down to her abdomen judging by this information it seems to
00:25:23
me that whoever did this wanted to be 100% certain that she was dead now no weapon was found at the scene Lindsay
00:25:33
was found on the floor of the master bedroom near the bathroom her body fell so that it would have been visible to
00:25:40
someone coming up the stairs and glancing into the master bedroom so the injuries to the spine they think were
00:25:48
done purposefully that the person knew what they were doing possibly that that's certainly a a
00:25:55
possibility or could ALS could also be just happen stance but what I think we can point out and say for certain given
00:26:03
this information is she was in fact attacked from behind did not know that she was about to be attacked because
00:26:08
there was no defensive wounds M and I really think that there's there's multiple areas that you could have hit
00:26:16
with that first strike that would have left her incapacitated Lindsay was found lying on
00:26:23
her back there was Zero evidence of sexual assault Lindsay's wallet purse cell phone and jewelry were all found at
00:26:32
the scene undisturbed Lindsay's business suit soaked up much of the blood although there was still plenty left at
00:26:40
the scene how much blood would have been on the killers is anyone's [Music] guess
00:26:59
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2023 [Music] all right we're back maybe you're back watch your back watch your back we
00:29:13
will be at the Ohio crime and Corruption event at the Ohio history Connection in
00:29:19
Columbus that is this Saturday we will be talking for about an hour and we are scheduled to go on at 2 :30 p.m. so if
00:29:28
you want more information or ticket information you can find that at our website True Crime
00:29:35
garage.com yeah and after we're done talking we'll be there for a little bit afterwards to meet with anybody that
00:29:41
shows up that's right that's right and if you still need more True Crime garage don't forget about the Stitcher app and
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our other show on Stitcher premium the wonderful very highly touted show that everybody tells everybody else about
00:29:58
award winning award-winning it's number one in Japan it's called off the Record right and and all everything we just
00:30:07
said is off the Record MH okay Captain so the choice of weapon here in this case really and unfortunately makes a
00:30:17
lot of sense right it's a knife was used in this murder now unlike a gun this is
00:30:23
going to leave little forensic evidence behind it's going to make no noise and does not require a permit so less of a
00:30:33
trail here right Canada has much stricter gun laws than the United States and a knife would just simply be easier
00:30:41
quieter and leave no Trail but the other thing that we can figure out too is that
00:30:47
this knife was brought to the house by The Killers and taken away yeah and given our source he says it was a rather
00:30:57
large knife so if in fact this was a large knife you do have to wonder how it was concealed and I'm also guessing that
00:31:05
the attack taking place upstairs rather than downstairs on the ground level this
00:31:12
was also deliberate so one you would be leaving the body left away from prying eyes the
00:31:21
upstairs in compared to in comparison to the ground level where anybody could just walk up and look through a window
00:31:26
right the other thing too is if the attack does not go as planned then there's a longer Escape
00:31:34
Route for Lindsay to get away from her attackers and again it just seems to be deliberate you know they knew that they
00:31:42
were going to be shown the house so let's wait until she takes us upstairs or let's suggest hey can we see the
00:31:50
upstairs and then when her back is turned the attack went down now Jason and Co enen as we said
00:31:58
were actually taken to into police custody yeah they were actually I believe handcuffed and taken into
00:32:05
custody so this is obviously for several different reasons right they found the body and they're at the scene of the
00:32:13
murder scene now Jason probably had blood on him we do know that he attempted CPR this is in spite of him saying that
00:32:23
he could tell that Lindsay was dead now Jason's a pretty big man I think he's like 62 63 230 240 yeah and he was a I
00:32:34
believe an amateur hockey player or semipro yeah something something of that nature amateur is there a difference
00:32:42
well I think you're you're partially professional much like your your conduct on this
00:32:49
show um so he tells police that he arrived at the house around 5:45 p.m. now I want everybody to really pay
00:32:57
attention here because we're not just we're not going back through stuff that we've already discussed we're going to
00:33:02
go into more detail about what his movements were that night and that day right so he says he arrived around
00:33:12
around 5:45 p.m. at the house that she was showing he and Cohen stayed in the car they parked in the CAC and they were
00:33:20
watching the house well let's back up he was running a little bit later than he would told Lind he would be but that's
00:33:27
because when they left the car dealership that they actually had to call to get directions uh they weren't
00:33:34
really familiar with how to get to that house and I know there are some people out there that are saying hey we're
00:33:41
missing something a big part of this case which is hey Jason may or may not have seen The Killers When he pulled up
00:33:49
near the property I just want to so we can all get a clear understanding of what may be going on
00:33:57
that we go through these items one at a time so they are parked Jason and Cohen are parked in the cesac and they are
00:34:07
watching the house he says they arrived at 5:45 p.m. then at 5:55 p.m. he texts Lindsay
00:34:16
saying are you okay but receives no response Jason then moved the car to an actual parking spot on tqu Drive mhm and
00:34:26
he he says he got out and he went up and looked through the front door glass this
00:34:31
is when he saw Lindsay's shoes he became concerned and made some calls these calls were him trying to
00:34:39
gain access to the home remember the door is locked at this time yeah and this is in fact backed up by cell phone
00:34:48
records when this didn't work when he couldn't gain access to the house this is when Jason made the first 911 call at
00:34:56
6 05 p.m. now crime scene investigators tracking fingerprints and Footprints they have verified Jason and Cohen's
00:35:07
stories about their travel into and throughout the house the home had been thoroughly cleaned the morning before
00:35:15
the showing and was empty nobody was living in this house right so it was very easy for them to establish what
00:35:24
took place or to verify that their stories were in fact correct well let's stay on that for one one second cuz the
00:35:32
house was basically empty is ready to be shown and this is one of the reasons why
00:35:39
they start rolling out the idea of a robbery because all Lindsay's belongings are still there and then there's
00:35:47
obviously nothing to be taken in the house again you got to question the motivation right right and the while
00:35:55
we're talking about evidence the only DNA that was recovered from the house is was
00:36:02
Linds Jason and Cohen were released after this initial questioning and Jason did obtain a lawyer now with his lawyer
00:36:12
assistance Jason cooperated with police in performing the reenactment walkthr of
00:36:18
his actions when he entered the front door of the home he says immediately he ran up the stairs calling for Lindsay
00:36:27
and this has caused a lot of people to be suspicious of Jason why is that so after this video and after the interview
00:36:35
with Jason was aired on Dat line in 2010 people were wondering how they're pointing out and thinking
00:36:44
that he may have known in advance prior to walking through the front door that Lindsay would be found upstairs MH
00:36:53
here's the thing we got to if if you're going to make that that leap let's also keep some other possible leaps in mind
00:37:01
as well right you have to wonder it's possible since Cohen already ran through the downstairs to get to the front door
00:37:10
that Jason may have just anticipated that Lindsay was not on that ground level floor right and we also have the
00:37:17
police statements of her body could be easily seen from somebody who was going up the stairs and looking in the
00:37:26
direction of the master bedroom well now in his own words it took him he said maybe 2 seconds from the time he opened
00:37:33
the door to get up the steps mhm yeah and he knows that his friend by this time had already run through the back
00:37:40
door through the French doors all the way through to the front door yeah I but I could see why they're suspicious of
00:37:47
that I think that's something as far as investigators uh that they want to question and you kind of see them do
00:37:55
that during this uh reenactment or this walkth through so one thing that I really want to dive into right here
00:38:03
before we get to all this other stuff with Jason is the whole reason for him being at the
00:38:11
property that she was showing in the first place all right this is where I'm going to try to really start to cut
00:38:16
through some of the crap that's out there and try to present what I believe is to be real okay so this is another
00:38:25
reason why people are susp ious of Jason and this stems from one narrative that has really taken over this case the
00:38:32
story is Lindsay was nervous about the showing and the prospect of meeting strangers whose accents she was was not
00:38:41
familiar with and that she in fact asked Jason to attend this showing for her protection on February 4th this is 2
00:38:52
days after the murder CBC reported that Lindsay's colleagues said that she had quote a bad feeling
00:39:00
about the cell phone calls right CTV News attributes this quote to her friend Vicky
00:39:07
Mackey this is a story repeated by Lindsay's father Jeff but there is evidence that this story in fact is
00:39:15
incorrect or at the very least extremely exaggerated okay so for one thing Lindsay was a smart ambitious
00:39:25
professional young woman she knew that part of her realtor's job involved showing properties to people
00:39:32
right often people she's never met before Jason for his part he told police that he arranged to meet Lindsay at 1702
00:39:42
desosa place because he was the listing agent on the shc property now remember this is the property that he left with
00:39:52
Cohen to go over to desosa place right the reason why he was going to meet Lindsay there in Jason's words was not
00:40:02
for her protection he was just stopping by there to pick up some paperwork this was just going to be a quick stop talk
00:40:10
with her briefly grab some paperwork mm Lindsay the reason for this is Lindsay was representing a buyer a potential
00:40:18
buyer who made an offer on the shc property that Jason was the listing agent for
00:40:26
okay so the shc owner made a counter offer and Jason wanted to get that to Lindsay to submit it to her client
00:40:37
ASAP anybody that's in the real estate business anybody that's in sales will tell you if you got if you got talks
00:40:45
going on back and forth and you think that you're going to be able to get a deal done you get that deal done right
00:40:53
you don't you don't give somebody time to talk them themselves out of purchasing well it depends on if you're
00:41:00
a professional or if you're semi-professional so it seems like Jason would have had a different reason for
00:41:08
being at the house and this in fact does change a lot of what one could think or
00:41:14
be suspicious of changes it drastically because my first question in all this is
00:41:21
if you're there to protect your girlfriend or even your friend or whatever you're a real estate agent it's
00:41:29
not that these are people these are people people right they want to they wouldn't feel uncomfortable
00:41:40
pulling up in the driveway they wouldn't feel in uh uncomfortable interrupting the showing cuz it's as simple as hey I
00:41:48
work with Lindsay I am here um if you guys need me what a great property it's you know or I'm here as part of the show
00:41:56
they don't need to know why you're part of the showing exactly and if you are in
00:42:01
fact there for her protection then you are there for part of the showing right and so why Park you're you're you're 63
00:42:08
240 lbs hockey this this guy doesn't have a problem if if there's going to be a fight so again the the story The
00:42:18
Narrative has been she felt uncomfortable Jason is going to go there you know for her protection again
00:42:27
doesn't make a lot of sense and that makes you really question Jason but then when Jason says well no that's not why I
00:42:34
was going there I had to give her paperwork well if you're just giving somebody paperwork you're not going to be that
00:42:43
concerned that you're running a little bit late you're not going to be that concerned on yeah because you're
00:42:50
technically not late right if you were there for the showing if he were to be there to be part part of the showing he
00:42:57
would have been late however what he's stating is I'm there to have a a quick meeting with Lindsay regarding this
00:43:03
property that I have the seller she has the potential buyer we have to do some quick paperwork so in fact he is
00:43:11
actually there for another purpose which is going to take place after the showing
00:43:16
so he's not even he's not late he's not part of the showing and therefore like you said if he was there
00:43:24
for protection he would have been late and you would have anticipated he park the car and go into the house and say
00:43:30
hey sorry I'm late I was supposed to be here for the here yeah yeah I mean you think again yeah I I back up all that
00:43:39
stuff I I think of but then it becomes it's it's convoluted which story is correct
00:43:47
because what's weird too is they a little bit of both can be correct at the same time she could have felt weird out
00:43:56
by this girl that she thinks is G put in on a fake accent that's a little strange
00:44:02
but you got a million dooll listing so maybe you mention that to your father n it seems a little strange kind of a
00:44:10
little weirded out by it but we'll see what happens and even if she mentions that to a friend okay maybe that's just
00:44:19
some conversation if that conversation didn't happen with Jason and if his reason for
00:44:26
being there wasn't for protection then his story makes sense so I'm not going to throw the father under the bus or the
00:44:33
friend under the bus to say that she didn't say those things but that didn't that doesn't mean that she went the
00:44:39
extra step to say hey Jason I want you to be there at a certain time and and to be here at the showing with me the other
00:44:47
thing too you know the sanch police they spoke to all parties around this case her colleagues her friends
00:44:56
and their official statement on this is that they say while Lindsay felt the showing was unusual because she was not
00:45:06
the listing agent she wasn't apprehensive about it right and now let's go over that a little bit because
00:45:14
the way the story kind of reads is that they were just like hey we're just looking for a house I believe this first
00:45:21
house the the murder scene house was one that they actually picked out does that make sense when when the
00:45:30
when the quote unquote Mexicans called her this well that's a that again that's why I was quick to point out that other
00:45:39
than Lindsay's notes and some conversations that she had with colleagues and such we don't know exactly what was
00:45:49
discussed on those phone calls right and that has been something that's been hotly debated too how did they end up up
00:45:56
at this property right was it at the client's suggestion was it at Lindsay's suggestion or was it somebody else well
00:46:05
again I'm going to go back to what I heard the logical thing is that some point lindsy was telling her friend or
00:46:13
her father that she thought it was a little strange that they called her and not the listing agent of that house so
00:46:22
to me that is that's she's going well why are you calling me when you could have called the listing agent of that
00:46:30
house so to me they knew about that house to me that house was they brought that house into the equation so I saw
00:46:40
her notes from the initial phone call yeah there's no address that she wrote down in her notes
00:46:50
and so what that leads me to believe I'm not saying that I'm right I don't I'm not going to pretend that I know but
00:46:56
what that would lead me to believe is that that property was not discussed during that phone call and was not
00:47:02
brought up by the clients well it could have been as simple as that she just Googled it and then left it up and
00:47:09
didn't put it in her notes but I I I see uh your logic behind because she wrote down like what they what they were
00:47:18
looking for yeah she wrote down three bedroom three bath space for housekeeper separate living area for housekeeper
00:47:26
large master bedroom I'm just saying the the the idea General distance from downtown right I'm just saying the idea
00:47:34
that this rumor is out there that she's saying hey it's kind of weird that they called me and not the listing agent of
00:47:41
this house the fact that that kind of rumor of that conversation is out there leads me to believe that the the
00:47:49
Mexicans knew about this property which would make some sense too though because
00:47:55
we know that they're not trying to buy a house we know we now know that they were
00:48:01
they were leading her somewhere and they were going to murder her and so why wouldn't you want to pick the location
00:48:09
well not only that why wouldn't you want to pick a a vacant house you know like where I said I believe nobody lives in I
00:48:16
believe the attack going down upstairs is deliberate that's that's for the purpose of them not finding her
00:48:22
body as quickly which would make me if somebody lived there then you're like they they have to return home at some
00:48:29
point right but again her conversation about why would they call me when there's a listing agent well that was
00:48:35
the that was the police's statement we don't know that she actually said those words but what I'm saying is again then
00:48:42
it go another logical step is if you're the one planning this murder planning this attack why wouldn't you want to
00:48:50
know everything about the property so you're the one that found the property Jason in the Public's eye is I
00:48:59
mean the only way to look at this Captain would be to say that in the Public's eye he's likely the number one
00:49:04
suspect according to the internet and there is concern because of two variations of the story that he told to
00:49:14
police about something he saw that night this is something we touched on earlier
00:49:19
but we have not gotten into yet okay so on Dateline on the Dateline episode about this case
00:49:26
Jason told sleepy Josh manowitz that he saw two shadow shadowy figures through the frosted glass of the front door M he
00:49:37
assumed Jason assumed that they were the couple that Lindsay was meeting but on True Crime daily Sergeant Chris horley
00:49:47
said that Jason saw the killers from his car as the front door of the house opened saying quote the killers were
00:49:54
actually about to walk out the front door and leave he turned into the culdesac and interrupted them leaving if
00:50:02
he meaning Jason had been 5 seconds later he would have driven right into the suspects walking out of the house
00:50:11
into the driveway right and it's it's believed that he got a pretty clear look at the male but not so much the female
00:50:19
so according to the Sergeant Jason told police that the couple turned around and closed the door
00:50:28
and that he actually saw them or as you said at least the man and horley goes on to say quote and
00:50:36
his assumption is these are the clients and the showing is just starting as the door
00:50:43
closes quote he then Parks outside because he is waiting for the showing to end but the showing didn't end Lindsay
00:50:51
never emerged from the home and eventually Jason called 911 so let's let's dive into this real quick
00:50:58
here according to Sergeant horley Jason interrupts these two leaving but Jason doesn't know that
00:51:06
Lindsay has been attacked at this point he actually thinks that they just turn around and that they're walking into the
00:51:12
home and the showing is about to begin and that's why he kind of just sits there and chills for a minute but then
00:51:20
when he doesn't hear back from Lindsay and when Lindsay and nobody else leaves the home then he's starting to question
00:51:27
what's going on okay so here's a big problem with these two stories one what was said on Dat line and what was said
00:51:35
by the sergeant on on True Crime daily this looks like it's two different stories right yeah so the Dateline
00:51:46
episode made made it appear that Jason only saw people through the glass of the front door when he actually said he
00:51:55
could see two people through the glass only after they went back inside the house upon seeing his car mhm so this is
00:52:05
this is one of those weird situations where it's not two variations of of a story he's not telling two different
00:52:13
stories it's just different portions of the same story it's just people reporting the story differently right so
00:52:20
the Dateline episode made Jason come across as telling two different stories now
00:52:25
the sanch police and this is one thing that I think is was Keith Morrison on the
00:52:31
episode um did he go aha well I I know that why would Jason be telling a story talk to Sleepy Josh manowitz I like Josh
00:52:41
a lot oh I do too he's a very nice guy I do too he's a great drinking partner he
00:52:45
looks half asleep during his interviews he looks half asleep when you're drinking fully asleep during the
00:52:50
interview so real quick here then Jason pulls up to the house well real quick here's the thing that that people are
00:52:58
missing in this case and this is where you can't have you can't have this whole idea that
00:53:06
Jason told two different stories it doesn't where it gained legs and went off walking on its own it needs to we
00:53:14
can very quickly remove those legs there should not be a story here because the sanch police held a very unusual press
00:53:23
conference this is shortly after the Dateline episode aired mhm in this press conference the San police said that the
00:53:31
episode resulted in rampant speculation that Jason and his family were responsible for Lindsay's murder police
00:53:40
reiterated in the press conference that Jason and his family are not suspects in
00:53:46
the case so what that tells me is which is I think a stupid line anyways because we know now or what we think we
00:53:57
know is that they didn't find any DNA in the house other than Linds but they did
00:54:02
ask Jason to submit a DNA test and as far as I know he's never submitted that DNA test now again goes from the crime
00:54:11
scene gets handcuffed goes downtown you know extensive interview interrogation goes back with his lawyer to actually go
00:54:21
through the property do walkthroughs being very cooperative but they ask for DNA again when you lawyer up what's your
00:54:30
lawyer going to tell you no we're not submitting DNA so I don't know if I put that so much on Jason
00:54:39
but if that rumor is true then you can't sit there and tell me that you that he's
00:54:45
cleared and they're not suspects okay so let's stay on this for a little bit so we have a murdered young
00:54:52
realtor yeah mysterious foreign clients virtually no forensic evidence that the police will discuss and no clues as to
00:55:01
the Killer's identities or motives so let's go through what we do know according to Sergeant horley we
00:55:10
know from forensic evidence that both the man and female did go through the home this is his words right he says
00:55:18
quote we do have evidence of them leaving the home however we don't have anything in the form of DNA or finger
00:55:25
PRS end quote now thanks to our source Gary Rogers we can tell you exactly what this evidence is according to Gary
00:55:34
investigators were able to track sock and nylon impressions of Lindsay and two others throughout the house mhm they
00:55:43
found a bloody trail of footprints one in a larger wool blend pattern sock the other a smaller more feminine nylon
00:55:52
print leaving bloody prints leading from from the upstairs down to the foyer this
00:55:58
probably where they presumably picked up their Footwear their shoes and out the French doors leading to the patio yeah
00:56:07
now based on this police could tell pretty much exactly what happened in the home and determined that the female and
00:56:14
male couple seen with Lindsay were almost certainly the perpetrators of her murder it seems that they just got lucky
00:56:22
that there was a hole in the fence so that they could sneak out of the patio and exit onto the street yeah got lucky
00:56:29
or they knew they knew this house in advance so but it but it does seem that their exit plan was to leave out the
00:56:37
front door the way that they came in but this was got all messed up when Jason drove up to the property right but they
00:56:44
parked on a different Road or we can assume they parked on a different Road well that that that is a good
00:56:52
question um they didn't park on that road we know that now could they have had a getaway car getaway driver where
00:56:59
they dropped off right where they picked up that's also a possibility yeah so again who are these two people we know
00:57:08
that per police statements that they are almost 100% Almost 100% the perpetrators
00:57:14
of Lindsay's murder and back to the two eyewitnesses the lady walking her dog saw two people in the driveway with
00:57:21
Lindsay the description she provided is is of a 6ot tall Caucasian man in his mid-30s with a medium build dark hair
00:57:32
now the woman walking her dog only saw the man from the back she didn't get a a look at the front of him okay MH and she
00:57:42
also described a Caucasian woman in her mid-30s to 40s medium height and build with shoulder length blonde hair now she
00:57:51
only saw the woman from the side the woman woman she described was wearing a dress the dress was a wavy pattern in
00:57:59
white black and reddish pink this is described as a very distinctive dress and actually police wondered at the time
00:58:08
if it was worn specifically to distract any Witnesses from noticing any facial features of the two or any other
00:58:16
distinguishing characteristics and it wasn't reported that the man was wearing a brown jacket of some
00:58:23
kind from my notes I don't have anything regarding a brown jacket but keep in mind the other eyewitness was driving
00:58:31
his car so he only got like a glimpse right of these two people and I I bring that up because I'm not saying it
00:58:39
happens all the time but we have this reddish pink black dress man wearing a brown jacket chances are if the these
00:58:49
couple left together then they would change the jacket to a black jacket and they would match on some level um my gut
00:58:58
feeling tells me that these people didn't leave that they live in separate houses
00:59:04
that's what my gut feeling is telling me um and I know that sounds silly based off of color coordination but that's my
00:59:11
gut feeling they're not they're not wearing some type of uniform to indicate that
00:59:17
they're together no I know it sounds silly but I I that's my gut feeling well regarding man went to pick up the woman
00:59:25
and she got in the car we don't match we don't match regarding the dress I think
00:59:30
the dress is very important because it is described as very distinctive again it was a wavy pattern in in white black
00:59:38
and reddish pink the police went on to say that because it was so distinctive they thought that maybe the dress would
00:59:47
actually lead them to the the killer or at least to whoever the woman was that that attended that show showing right so
00:59:56
but their their statement was quote we think we may have even found the exact brand of the dress it wasn't a designer
01:00:04
high-end name brand unfortunately it was something that could commonly be purchased in a department store so
01:00:12
unfortunately the dress did not pan out for police well I think it had maybe possibly two purposes one to distract
01:00:19
people so they're not looking at facial features but I think on the other hand if it's
01:00:25
red and pink if if you're leaving a house it's a reddish pink so it's it's actually a black and white dress with a
01:00:32
reddish pink um wavy pattern right but what I'm saying is um so you're leaving a house with some blood on you it might
01:00:42
distract people from the the fact that you have blood on you it's possible I personally I think
01:00:49
that whatever they were wearing that day was to look as if they should be looking at a home that cost
01:00:57
over $900,000 okay that's that's why I think when when they get this description when law enforcement gets
01:01:03
the description of this dress I think that's why they immediately thought that it could have been a higher-end designer
01:01:09
brand that there would have been less of and they would have had a chance of tracing it in some form or fashion now a
01:01:17
year after the murder police released a sketch of the blonde female seen by the witness in uh profile unfortunately this
01:01:26
did not lead to any leads now police examined Lindy's phone and her day planner and found the phone number for
01:01:37
the quote Mexicans as she called them they traced the phone number and found something startling the phone used was a
01:01:46
burner phone purchased with cash the previous November at a convenience store in Vancouver there was no surveillance
01:01:53
footage of the phone purchase now keep in mind it wasn't that the store didn't have cameras it was more so that this
01:02:03
took place so long before right nobody had asked for this footage eventually eventually they lose it or you know copy
01:02:12
over it anything like that so the uh burner phone was activated online just days before the actual
01:02:21
murder and it was activated under a name uh Paulo Rodriguez mhm p a o l o Rodriguez I spelled that just because I
01:02:32
probably mispronounced it and was listed to a business address this business was
01:02:38
located in Vancouver now to be perfectly clear when they registered the phone and
01:02:45
to get the phone number they had to provide an address okay so they provided an address to a business and it's been
01:02:53
determined that this this business is unrelated to anything in this case right now the first call on that
01:03:01
phone the first call made to Lindsay was possibly on January 31st 2008 and it came from the Vancouver area the
01:03:13
phone then traveled to Victoria on Friday February 1st 2018 this is by way of the 2hour ferry
01:03:23
from Vancouver this is confirmed by cell phone pings along the way and it was used again to
01:03:29
call Lindsay more than once that day and again on February 2nd which was the day
01:03:35
of the killing the phone was never used again after the murder and it was never it's never been found the phone was only
01:03:45
ever used for one thing communicating with Lindsay Sergeant horley says quote it's a level of planning that clearly
01:03:54
shows Lindsay boak was the [Music] target thank you Captain and thank you to all of you out there for listening
01:04:12
and telling a friend please join us back here in the garage tomorrow for part two
01:04:17
until then be good be kind and don't live [Music] you can live out your Master Chef dreams
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