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Tails hey I'm Travis Kelce and I'm here to tell you that you can get every touchdown from every game on Sunday
00:00:36
afternoons with NFL Red Zone from NFL Network included in sports pack on Direct TV so you'll never miss a big
00:00:43
moment hey we kind of shared a big moment learning about all this great football on Direct TV didn't we I know
00:00:49
I'll never forget it stop compromising get Direct TV with or without a satellite when you visit
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directv.com [Music] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:45
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man whose mama raised him on huge slabs of meat he is
00:01:53
the big Captain thank you thank you thank you it's good to be seen and it's good to see you cheers mates and it's
00:02:00
still [Music] snowing tonight we are drinking lizard of cause by Founders Brewing Company in
00:02:11
beautiful Grand Rapids Michigan garage grade five out of five bottle caps I love this stuff Captain this beer is
00:02:19
perfect for the winter months I like to start off my Friday night with one of these on draft at my favorite spot
00:02:25
lizard of cause is packed with great flavor it's a complex beer but it has to be to mask the 10.5 ABV you should uh
00:02:33
tell the listeners your favorite spot so they show up I'm not going to do that but you wouldn't even know or detect the
00:02:39
high ABV because lizard of cause is full of chocolate vanilla and wonderful Michigan blueberries aged in Oak barrels
00:02:47
and this fantastic Brew is brought To Us by this fantastic crew you see what you
00:02:52
did there first up we have big Pete from York England Big Pete says I hope I hope
00:02:58
you can make it over to the UK when the Browns play in London well I'd love to do something like that Captain you're
00:03:05
very well traveled have you ever been to London yes I went every weekend every weekend I went there once on a shorter
00:03:11
trip than I would have liked London is a great place to which everyone should experience next up we have Cassandra in
00:03:18
Seattle who says try some allegian split shot that's an espresso milk stout from
00:03:23
Seattle and her name was Cassandra next we have M&L Rec recruiting in Massachusetts let's go to Oregon City
00:03:31
and say hi to Mark also all the way in Berlin Germany we say hi and thanks to Laura and I would like to give a thank
00:03:38
you to Angela in Australia who sent us a wonderful Christmas package with a really cool Australian beer koozie it
00:03:45
was full on man it was full on we we're practically we've practically been adopted by Australia the listeners don't
00:03:51
know that but yeah that's where I'm fleeing to when the stuff hits the fan they they want to they want to make our
00:03:57
show a TV show and uh and they also gave me a job so the Fallout plan for the garage is Australia
00:04:06
is what we're saying right we're heading down under so we want to thank everybody
00:04:09
for pitching in for the beer fun this week and if you want to kick it up and buy us some beers for next week go to
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True CRI garage.com and click on the Donate button and for everything social media you can follow us at Snapchat
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Facebook untapped all that stuff Instagram I got a little Instagram bet with my buddy that I can't get to a
00:04:29
certain number by my birthday so let's make that happen and you can do so at True Crime garage and that's enough of
00:04:37
the business and enough of Australia as well so gather around grab a chair grab a beer and let's talk some true
00:04:44
crime hold on [Applause] [Music] [Applause] man [Music] Captain are you ready are you holding on
00:05:08
to your seat cuz we are going to do a quick update show I'm holding on to something this is a case that we've
00:05:13
covered maybe more than any other case uh we've done a few episodes on this one way back in season one we covered the
00:05:18
Long Island serial killer case and managed to accuse many people along the way of having been the actual killer or
00:05:26
at least maybe you should talk to them a little further uh but we will not let this case rest and anytime there's a new
00:05:33
development we're going to talk about it we're going to talk to each other and we
00:05:35
also asked for the wonderful Joshua Zan and Rachel Mills who did a fantastic job
00:05:41
on the show Killing season I hope everybody checked that out because that was about the Long Island serial killer
00:05:47
case as well as other cases throughout the country I thought it was one of the best documentaries that's come out in
00:05:52
recent past and we've asked them to join us to talk about some of these recent developments right and currently it's on
00:05:58
Amazon so so I'm I'll put a link in the show description so you guys can check that out if you haven't already one of
00:06:04
the greatest things about this documentary is at the end of every episode they they hook you yeah and they
00:06:12
do I don't know if it was Josh I'm going to I'm just going to assume it wasn't Josh and it this was Rachel's doing I'm
00:06:19
going to give her the props for that um but it's at the each at the end of each episode you're like okay well maybe I'll
00:06:26
watch the next one but then they hook you and then you I have to watch the next one this is a
00:06:32
very easy show to binge watch yeah the really cool thing here too is they got the websleuth community involved in the
00:06:38
show yeah very cool and you know I thought I really actually thought that that was going to be a Cheesy thing not
00:06:43
because of the web sluth thing I'm a web sluther myself I've been active on there
00:06:47
for a few years we're not going to talk about that um but if you're on there it's not hard to figure out who I am um
00:06:53
but the thing here is the thing here is though I'm glad that they got him involved but the thing that was really
00:06:58
cool was the web sluther that came forward that they actually had on audio or video they had some amazing theories
00:07:05
like some really good stuff to check out there and the great thing about K well some of it is just not Theory some of it
00:07:11
is just a great insight and actual knowledge I mean it's just not just some speculation the other thing I loved
00:07:17
about Killing season was it what was it about Eight Episodes I think during the course of those Eight Episodes there's
00:07:22
about three or four really sketchy dudes that they come across that you're like oh my God this guy either he's either
00:07:30
the killer that they're looking for or he's he's done something that that that we should lock him up for so check out
00:07:36
The Killing season available on Amazon so a couple things happened with this documentary one they dove into new
00:07:42
information they try to uncover as much as they could but during the course of filming and editing a couple things came
00:07:50
out in this case that we want to talk about in the news and we're going to take you down some different roads with
00:07:55
these new developments in the Long Island Gilgo serial murder case but we're we also going to take you down a
00:08:00
different Road on how we typically do these shows I know that typically with with an interview show it's usually just
00:08:06
me and the interview ease however there were some conversations that I wanted to
00:08:10
have been had between the captain and I regarding this ongoing investigation yeah so it just goes between a little
00:08:17
bit of the interview and then we go back to talking so anyways we'll see you in a
00:08:22
little bit and let's check in with Josh and [Applause] [Music] Rachel [Music] first off congratulations on the show
00:08:43
Killing season was recently on A&E but I'm wondering how long ago were you done with the production of the show and
00:08:51
there's been developments in the case since then did you remain involved in the investigation uh that's a great question
00:08:59
officially I guess you can say that we were done filming last year in January of this past year of 2016 but um editing
00:09:08
process takes a long time and with um active investigations things can happen and um
00:09:15
as we were finishing up literally episode 8 um things things broke May of 2006 in uh in Long Island and that was
00:09:25
the county executive yeah um saying that he was demanding spot's resignation now
00:09:33
that hasn't happened spot is still in um in leadership but that was interesting so we had to open the edit back up um
00:09:41
and make sure we we would be able to include that into the last episode that was literally the last day of editing
00:09:47
right this you have the the highest elected official demanding the resignation of the district attorney in
00:09:54
part by what happened in the Gilgo case so we were just you know kind of flab GED that it would still it was always
00:10:02
happening you know and it's always been happening and it continues to be so it's
00:10:05
it's the case that really just doesn't stop one very fascinating part of The Killing season was that you chose to
00:10:12
work with the websleuth community now I'm a big fan of web SLO what was your takeaway from working with the
00:10:20
participants well you know the the web sloes are an interesting group um it was really interesting we wanted as kind of
00:10:29
Jal ists to look at what not only look at like what the case what was happening with the case but look at what was most
00:10:37
interesting to the webop community you know in a lot of ways we wanted to make a true crime show for True Crime Junkies
00:10:45
you know and the best way to do that was really to go to web [ __ ] and also like
00:10:49
they had kind of done their own sleuthing and so we wanted to pick up where that left off now the interesting
00:10:56
thing is like the web slth Community is like you know they're very particular uh
00:11:01
you know you've got um some really interesting folks on there all different backgrounds all different styles all
00:11:07
different like levels of like you know communication and so it was it was it was very interesting I think people were
00:11:14
skeptical though at first they definitely didn't want to reveal who they were to us right ra you know
00:11:21
everybody's like would you say they're were very nervous up front yeah I mean that's it's very easy to hide behind a
00:11:27
handle or a screen name there's some security in that so for for two filmmakers to come in and kind of you
00:11:34
know communicate with them and try to get them on board it took a little bit of convincing but yeah on film they were
00:11:41
like no no no no no I don't want to go on film I don't want to go on film I was like you've got such great ideas come on
00:11:46
you know but you know it was interesting because that's the whole thing and that's it's a good question actually
00:11:53
because it's really like it's about trying to bring the case out from the shadows out from like behind the veneer
00:12:04
of like the cable pundits like the Nancy Graces and really try and like Empower people just regular citizens to do uh to
00:12:14
do things you know you know and it's interesting with the webs community and going down the rabbit hole of all the
00:12:19
Long Island Sero killer Forums on that site the um some of the bigger issues or the holes in the case um from a public
00:12:28
St stand point from a web sther standpoint kind of Rises to the top I and that definitely came out when we
00:12:34
discovered through websleuth through fieldnotes that the mother of the toddler was not in namus I don't I think
00:12:41
it would have taken us much longer to figure that out if field notes hadn't said anything if he hadn't said anything
00:12:45
and then to really understand what that means what are the repercussions of not having her nameus and Now spoiler alert
00:12:52
fast forward you know to a couple of weeks ago now that she is in namus because of our communication Josh and
00:13:00
myself and um and uh thank you Todd Matthews um working with the medical examiner's office in nasau is that now
00:13:10
she is in namus and we thought we were just GNA you know we wanted to make sure that happened if we we knew we probably
00:13:18
wouldn't catch the serial killer right but we can do something small however that small thing has now kind of been
00:13:25
the biggest break in the case in years development in the case yeah since April 2011 it was really like the last little
00:13:33
thing on our note like oh let's get Jane do number three who's the mother of the
00:13:38
toddler just to back up a little bit of the bodies that were found along Ocean Parkway there was a mother and a toddler
00:13:45
and nobody quite knows like toddler what's a toddler doing there these are all sex workers you know and it's a big
00:13:51
question uh is it a sex worker who bring brings a baby Along on a trick which we
00:13:57
now know actually happen happens quite a bit uh we didn't think so or as some people have said you know is this a
00:14:05
different sort of relationship and this is like somebody who the killer or Killers knew and you know could this
00:14:11
even be the wife and the child so this mother and toddler who are found is very very interesting because that like gives
00:14:19
you a lot of Clues to go off of um you know you can't just give birth without there being a lot of Records you know so
00:14:27
you know a lot of these Victor are really like under the radar sex workers and now we've got a mother and toddler
00:14:33
so it's really interesting for a lot of people but really strange thing is we thought that the killer was being really
00:14:42
devious and this is one reason why people thought it was law enforcement was because the the person who dumped
00:14:48
the bodies separated intentionally separated the mother and the child left the child basically next to another body
00:14:57
who's known as J do number six and in and dump the mother literally across the county line in Nassau County
00:15:06
now all these unidentified victims that are found on the suffk county side of this of this crime scene are in namess
00:15:15
but for some reason Nassau County wasn't putting this Jane Doe in and uh from that you know we just emailed him and he
00:15:22
said oh there we can't put this person in because this these body parts here I think it was like a some extremity
00:15:31
extremity mother something you know they're like oh we can't put these bodies here we can't put this this we
00:15:37
can't create a record for this Victim Because the victim is already in namus and we're like what do you mean what do
00:15:44
you mean and they're like actually we've linked this victim to another victim named peaches now R and I knew quite a
00:15:52
bit about peaches because Peaches was another uh victim I dismembered por so that was found 40 m east in Hemstead but
00:16:04
we you know when this case rolled around we were looking at all the uh dismember
00:16:09
bodies uh around and you know you would think there's not that many but actually
00:16:13
there's a lot of dismemberment you know the question is whether or not uh it's a
00:16:17
forensic countermeasure to prevent identification or is this somebody who's like enjoying dismembering somebody as
00:16:24
as Peter Brent had suggested with um some of the bodies found in Long Island so as a
00:16:32
result it's now basically been proven that if janeo number three is linked to peaches in fact the body parts of the
00:16:43
same victim which we now know through DNA this completely extends the forensic footprint of the killer the Killer is
00:16:51
now just killer or Killers has now not just dumped bodies in Manorville and Gilgo Beach he has also dumped a body in
00:17:01
Hempstead and that is 40 miles even like closer to New York City so now you start
00:17:08
to put your thinking cap on and say hm is this guy from New York City is he live more towards Queens you know it
00:17:16
really changes everything and the disturbing part is that suff County apparently knew this and nasau
00:17:24
County knew that this victim was linked but didn't tell anybody and uh that's what I think we found so
00:17:33
interesting I mean it's not this game of trying to get information out of the police it's kind of more of frustration
00:17:39
of why the police aren't being as forthright as possible and if the answer is well there's an active serial killer
00:17:47
now roaming around two counties I I get it but but I don't know I mean you would
00:17:53
think the public deserves to know so that's where we stand with with at least that side of of the new developments do
00:18:01
we have a known cause of death for either peaches or the toddler or at least how the remains were found well
00:18:11
you know first of all just to go even further with why it's so interesting you want to say the 97 verse 96 and what how
00:18:19
that totally changes so the other thing is Peaches was found in a rubber made tub yeah off a Trail in a state park but
00:18:30
it's really like a very kind of it's not it's not really a park no but and also just um in case you forget she was found
00:18:38
probably within three days of having been murdered right right right which is very important so this body it's a torso
00:18:48
um dark skinned person uh there's a a tattoo of a peach on it and um and it's just a torso literally the midsection
00:18:59
yeah no arms no legs no head um and you know the way it was presented being found in this rubber made tub
00:19:07
there's the idea this is something that web Luther Peter Brent brings up you know it was It was kind of placed there
00:19:13
to be found um and so it's more than just forensic forensic countermeasures when you're chopping up this body it's
00:19:20
also there's a little bit of a ha look at look at you know look at what I've done and and see how horrific I am uh
00:19:30
but the most interesting thing is this body was found in 97 now going back to the bodies that are
00:19:37
found along Gilgo Beach and in Manville um the earliest one was 96 that's that person is known as Fire
00:19:45
Island Jane do uh in 1996 a pair of severed legs washed up in a plastic bag on Fire Island um that was in '96 and
00:19:56
then in 2011 uh they found the rest of this woman's remains on gilo beach now we
00:20:02
didn't quite know was this person really connected you know this is one of the things that maybe if you think there's
00:20:08
numerous different Killers around there and everybody's just using this area as a Dumping Ground you know maybe it's
00:20:14
three but now when you have This Woman's severed legs found in 96 and then this torso found in
00:20:21
97 you start to put it all together and you start to see a little bit more you know go yeah well then just in addition
00:20:29
to that there was that gap between 96 and arguably 2000 with j number six right and Jessica Taylor in 2003 and
00:20:39
then fast forward to 2007 when the first the Gil go Beach 4 went went missing which was uh 2007 and that was Marine so
00:20:49
having peaches now directly linked to Gilgo puts you know brings everything back a little bit 97 right well you say
00:20:58
well the 96 okay 96 97 2000 2003 uh 2007 like it starts to fill in and then where
00:21:06
you have these periodical gaps and you're like no no no this can't be the same guy suddenly you know there's a
00:21:13
difference between a 4-year Gap and a three-year Gap you know what I'm saying or and so it really brings in a question
00:21:19
like is it now we we debate back and forth maybe it is one killer you know we've definitely now started to say like
00:21:26
wow you know um so that was I think the biggest Revelation um on the body side go ahead
00:21:35
yeah no I was gonna say um Todd Matthews has been working with us very closely um
00:21:40
Todd Matthews Todd Matthews is the is the director of the media director media director of namus um which is the public
00:21:48
database yes who happens to be his own he started out as a wasn't a web Sloop through back then but it was a from the
00:21:55
D Network yeah from the D Network yeah he he's uh he's very interesting because he's the guy who found who discovered
00:22:01
who tent girl was right uh and that was his own case for like 20 years so he's a
00:22:07
citizen Luther as well who's now running uh the direct of communication for n so kind of interesting yeah it's
00:22:14
great um but I bring him up and I bring this process up because we' been working
00:22:18
with him very closely for the past I mean for years but very heavily the past month and um between all our work got
00:22:25
the mother of the toddler into namus and Todd um through conversations that I've
00:22:30
had with him um feels this is a big this is big progress and uh I think he is now
00:22:36
going to put more energy from his side into looking at the rest of the unidentified and more active when you
00:22:43
say more energy from his side which is just like maybe tasking a couple more people with with making sure that all
00:22:49
the Biometrics are in like the the the dental records and everything but and and there's also um ways that they can
00:22:58
work with with DNA as well they can be more um they can Outreach more to possible people who could be connected
00:23:05
and do that I don't want to say too much about it but um that should be coming sometime soon so you know it's very
00:23:12
interesting we got in this just all we wanted to do is really bring attention to this case and maybe try and identify
00:23:19
somebody um we we've always said that it's identification of these unidentified which is
00:23:25
really you know the key to solving this case but also I think it's the key to empowering people like if you're
00:23:31
listening to the show and you're interested in True Crime you know and you're like well I'm not going to be a
00:23:36
cop but you can actually go out there on webs you can actually identify yeah you
00:23:41
can help identify and you can make a huge major break in a case well look just today I'm going to bring up the the
00:23:47
pillowcase all right yeah yeah so literally um coming back from you know holiday weekend I go on to webu and I
00:23:54
see that my inbox is full from people saying did you see about the pillow because you see by the pillow they go
00:23:59
online and the web sther so just to back up when Peaches was found in that rubber
00:24:04
container back in 97 a pillow sham and a towel was found with her um and no one had figured out like where those came
00:24:13
from or like had done the the the really deep work to see you know you know what
00:24:18
was who was the manufacturer where was you know where may have someone bought that in Long Island or New York back you
00:24:24
know Circa 90 to 97 right um so they actually were able to trase it back and have discovered that it was manufactured
00:24:32
I believe between 90 and 95 okay by a certain manufacturer that only sold to these places so right now as we're
00:24:40
speaking um they're hard at work at figuring out and cross referencing where that what what store may that have come
00:24:48
from now that me that might might sound not significant but everything's significant
00:24:54
yeah we didn't know that putting the mother of the child in neus was going to be as significant as it was you just
00:24:59
never know right you never know right so now it's like okay like did he get it at
00:25:03
Macy's in like the Roosevelt Mall you know like all these things are going to point to where the footprint of the
00:25:09
Killer is and when you're talking about Geo profiling you know that all that becomes really significant so that's one
00:25:18
um kind of big update and if I could just say real fast that kind of specific information is what web sther do so so
00:25:26
great and where I understand law enforcement not wanting to include webs Luthers you know in all these
00:25:32
investigations I understand their hesitation but for instance if they got and they might know this information
00:25:39
already we don't know but if they have information like that of like let's figure out where this um object was from
00:25:47
um could spin they could save so much Manpower because they are they're as we always say they're overworked and
00:25:54
underpaid so those are the kinds of things that they're super good at yeah [Applause]
00:26:01
[Music] all right we'll get back to our interview with Joshua and Rachel right after this quick beer break this show is
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our beer break you have got to get the public involved when it comes to these cases especially cold cases and we have
00:28:26
seen with cases that we've recently covered we covered the Jacob wling case a couple weeks ago and we saw in that
00:28:33
case it's 27 years old and a blogger gets involved and starts piecing together crimes that were related to the
00:28:40
Jacob wling case and what I'm getting at here is that it seems almost shameful to
00:28:46
me I understand that law enforcement needs to hold certain things close to the vest because they have to be able to
00:28:52
verify if a confession is real or not and know if somebody is an actual suspect but we see something like with
00:28:59
the Amy mahalic case 26 years after the fact they come forward and they say you know what we found this curtain or we
00:29:07
found this rug at the crime scene and we believe that it's part of the crime scene that it's part of the victim that
00:29:12
it's linked to the victim here yeah can can the public help Trace these have you
00:29:17
seen these before do you know anybody that owned this curtain or this rug but you're asking 26 years later people move
00:29:24
away people pass away people forget what what is shameful to me is that it's so late in the game I like with the Lisk
00:29:32
investigation that they're coming forward with this information now and asking do you know about this pillowcase
00:29:38
let's figure this out and that's what the web sluth Community is so good at well and I just think the True Crime
00:29:43
community in general is good at I mean we're all armchair detectives I think that's why we get into the genre right
00:29:51
so and then you know recently you know we covered a case uh season 1 that you know is close to our hometown but there
00:29:59
is uh some developments that we're trying to make behind the scenes uh you know we haven't really talked about that
00:30:05
on the show but we don't really want to discuss that until there's some validity
00:30:09
to what basically you discovered um you know I can't take a lot of credit for that well so but to to put to what Josh
00:30:17
and Rachel are talking about here getting webu and namus involved in these things we've been working with local law
00:30:27
enforcement here and the namus organization for several months trying to put some things together here and
00:30:33
we're hoping to see some developments in a case that that we've worked for and I
00:30:37
never knew what namus was you know so just explain that to some of the audience um listeners that might not
00:30:44
know what it is so it's it's it's not missing persons it's unidentified remains or unidentified bodies you know
00:30:52
so every jurisdiction throughout the country they find unidentified bodies Jane do John do and they put them into
00:31:00
this system it's called the namus system because they you know the victims want to be named you know identify us yeah
00:31:07
yeah it's a good name for the so so the name of system they they are able to put
00:31:12
in certain amounts of information regarding these Jane do and johnos and the the problem with it is it can be
00:31:21
very vague information so on a national Spectrum right now it's voluntary so so law enforcement is not required to go in
00:31:30
and put anything in there um they're they're not required to check namus uh but what has recently developed in this
00:31:38
country which is great it's a great thing they tried to get it passed nationally that it would be a required
00:31:44
uh act that law enforcement would be involved in that they right they would have to put all this information into
00:31:50
the database correct and right now what has taken place is there's only two states in the country that have passed
00:31:56
this and made it law but it started with Connecticut and then it moved to New York where this is now a requirement
00:32:03
that they are checking these that they are putting certain information in there now anybody can go to and I recommend
00:32:09
that you do so go to namus go to their website Scout around on there and see what's going on in your community or if
00:32:16
there's a case that you're interested in and a missing person or somebody that that's been lost for for years you can
00:32:22
you can troll through there and and figure out what's going on and see if there's any kind of match it some of the
00:32:28
information is vague because this is voluntary some of it's very descriptive and detailed um but the thing here is
00:32:37
law enforcement and the FBI they actually have the ability to get onto namus and they can see different
00:32:44
information than the general public can so it's a valuable Source it's a valuable piece that that is not required
00:32:51
and should frankly be required in all states well so here's the interesting thing right so this all stem
00:32:57
from uh the this these parents of this guy Billy smolinski who's from Connecticut we
00:33:05
actually interviewed the smolinsky family uh if you go on uh the A&E uh site you can actually see the interview
00:33:13
we did to smolinsky you can actually even see uh the work we did on peaches before we knew and and we didn't include
00:33:21
it because we can never like say oh she's a definitive victim and suddenly we find out later at when the shows done
00:33:27
that peaches really is a victim and it's funny because we did all this work to try and find out who she was so you can
00:33:32
actually go on the site and see the additional con the additional content about peaches but this is so they were
00:33:39
trying to pass a law for years called Billy's law after this and basically the whole problem is is that this this
00:33:48
public database isn't um sorry when missing person information is entered into the database
00:33:56
um there's two different databases there's the database that the police can see and there's the database that the
00:34:03
public can see and they're not they don't work together and that's because Law Enforcement wants to put some
00:34:09
information in that they don't want the public to see but what happens is no offense to law enforcement or to anybody
00:34:18
but you know data entry is not law enforcement strong suit uh it's not really anybody's strong suit pretty much
00:34:26
I don't know but you know these guys are out like having to hit the streets and like find Killers not hunting and
00:34:34
pecking on a computer to type in information and so as a lot as a result a lot of this kind of missing persons
00:34:41
stuff is all like you know just kind of gets messed up like you know was the person 5'6 or 65 you know or you know
00:34:48
were they born in 19 you know 66 you know 67 or 76 you know all these little number changes you know
00:34:57
uh are are you know could totally do it so you know you're never going to be your best ad nobody else is going to be
00:35:05
the best Advocate except like you or you know if you're a missing person it's like your family so they made this law
00:35:11
in Connecticut and and Murphy is the guy the congressman who we interviewed you know to try and pass this thing that you
00:35:18
know they have to put this information publicly you as a parent need to be able to go in and look at this information
00:35:26
and make sure that the information about your missing child is actually correct because what they had found out when
00:35:32
they went to look is that all the missing person information about their kid was incorrect and so when it was
00:35:37
going through the databases there was no hits because it was all incorrect so Connecticut was the first one to pass it
00:35:44
now Chris Murphy interestingly enough tried to get this bill passed nationally but anything that's required by law
00:35:53
enforcement is not going to pass nationally so unfortunately it's died three times now and and that that was
00:36:01
really frustrating for us because it was like come on it's missing people you know what I'm saying like how like you
00:36:07
put put the information there you know it's it's there's so much tragedy but unfortunately they did it and now so now
00:36:14
it's happening through States and so it was first Connecticut Chris Murphy now Cuomo signed it and uh that's part of
00:36:22
the reason part of the reason is you know it's it's by law and recently there was an article that is specifically
00:36:30
about this case and specifically about namus and they're talking about the unidentified deceased missing persons
00:36:37
that are out there and how namus can be involved in this and the interesting thing here when we talk about the Long
00:36:43
Island serial killer case this article states that in Nassau County where bodies were found we have 11
00:36:50
unidentified deceased persons and in suff County where some of the other bodies were found in this case we have
00:36:56
27 unidentified missing person deceased bodies yeah I mean that that to me that's a crazy statistic yeah yeah it's
00:37:05
it's a heav and and not only crazy but that's scary it's a heavily populated area you know so the you you might
00:37:12
expect a higher number there however these are more recent cases this isn't going back to the beginning of time this
00:37:18
is in more recent times yeah yeah well there's a lot of granted there's a lot of space in suff there's a lot of wood
00:37:26
you know but it's like it's really interesting you know as we kind of get more granular with our data and that's
00:37:33
something we try to show in the whole the whole series whether it's you know Tom hargrove's murder accountability
00:37:38
project so those who aren't familiar with this Tom hardgrove was an investigator and he set investigative
00:37:45
journalist yeah and he set up this uh nonprofit organization that basically tracks unsolved murders MH yeah tracks
00:37:52
them Nationwide and actually when they started putting this data together together and collecting it and then
00:37:58
cataloging it once he had put in all that work and all that effort there was a bit uh he was a bit hesitant to
00:38:05
release this because I saw an interview with him and he stated you know I felt like by releasing this to the public
00:38:12
we're almost saying you know what if you want to if you want to kill somebody and
00:38:15
you want to get away with it then you can do that in Detroit you can do that in Chicago You're you could probably
00:38:21
kill somebody in one of those cities and and nobody ever catch you for it he was
00:38:25
worried about that portion of it however investigatively and the amount of help that it could do yeah in Reverse to that
00:38:34
is what is much more important and what we're going to see you know this is holding local law enforcement
00:38:39
accountable it's not just reading about somebody dying or being found somewhere and and then months later you read about
00:38:45
somebody else or a year later you read about somebody else no it's it's putting it all together in one place to look at
00:38:51
it and say whoa 30 that's a high number 35 that's that that is unacceptable and are they connected yeah yeah do we have
00:39:00
a serial killer here or do we have a group of people doing this uh for some reason these murders are going unsolved
00:39:06
and we've got to hold law enforcement accountable to that yeah I mean that we are paying their I mean I don't want to
00:39:13
sound uh super negative uh towards law enforcement because I support law enforcement obviously a bunch of friends
00:39:20
involved in it but that's this the reason why we have law enforcement this is the reason why we have tax in the in
00:39:27
our cities and going back to something that Joshua and Rachel were talking about earlier that's another thing too
00:39:33
you know when these cases go cold even if it's just a couple of months if they've got nothing if they've got no
00:39:39
leads let's present it to the public let's get this crowd slle thing involved and see how we can take these cases off
00:39:46
of our books and put people behind bars and like we said before I mean we've always joked you know the true true
00:39:52
crime garage but our our listeners we like to call them the True Crime Army and but that's essentially what all
00:39:58
these other podcasts and all these documentaries are doing as as it becomes more and more popular genre you know
00:40:05
there's a lot of intelligent people that dive into these cases uh as a hobby and
00:40:11
I I think we're going to start seeing more and more cases solved um you know by the True Crime Army but you know one
00:40:18
of the things I wanted to say which I found so interesting which we we were talking about earlier which is like when
00:40:23
the police come um and you know say well we need help identifying who this individual is you
00:40:31
know 12 years ago and and you know it's like it's weird but like you almost have
00:40:36
to make it you have to think like a a movie or think like you have to make it engaging for the audience you know what
00:40:44
I'm saying like you it can't it's not we're not in the days of uh you know um it's 10:00 Do You Know Where Your
00:40:53
Children Are or call this thing on a call this face on a milk carton or even um America's Most Wanted you know like
00:41:01
it's 2.0 you know and in the 2.0 world you have to like make it engaging like you have to show people that there
00:41:10
things can be done like when first you do the TV show and then we happen to have this little thing this invest you
00:41:17
know this thing with peaches and now everybody is all over this case and now you really do have
00:41:23
people and a chance to actually solve it one of the things that I like the most about The Killing season and I didn't
00:41:30
know this in advance even having talked to you before the show came out I didn't
00:41:33
realize you were going to travel around the country and check out different cases I thought this was all going to be
00:41:39
Long Island and you ended up covering some cases that we've covered on this show and I have some suspicions about
00:41:46
the Long Island serial killer case and that that stems from one of the cases you covered and we covered the West Mesa
00:41:53
uh body pit case or Bone Collector as he's been referred to um one thing we were able to point out on our show was
00:42:00
that out of the 11 victims found five of them knew one another we were able to connect the five of them and I have a
00:42:07
suspicion that with the Long Island case if we if we can let's take a leap here and think and say maybe one person did
00:42:15
all of these murders well that's that's a lot of bodies right it it would be hard for me to believe that some of the
00:42:23
victims did not know the Killer and and I don't mean that it was like a boyfriend or a best friend or or
00:42:29
somebody that they had a long-term relationship with I'm talking about maybe it's a frequent customer or
00:42:34
somebody that they had known from the area there's a reason why some of these girls went with this guy and that leads
00:42:40
me and that leads me to my other suspicion regarding the Long Island case is that maybe and I don't mean to
00:42:46
discredit your web sluther who said that we probably have a torso killer in the area um we we very well may have uh but
00:42:55
well just to be clear in the documentary one of the websleuth guys is he comes out saying hey look there's a chance
00:43:02
that there's not just one killer that there's possibly two and his evidence of that is that there's a torso killer
00:43:10
right he believes that there's a torso killer so if you go with one being a torso killer and one just being uh
00:43:17
dumping of bodies and not cutting them up then we have two killers right and and I would suspect in either situation
00:43:24
you know whether it be two or whether it be one that the the difference in how they're leaving the bodies to me points
00:43:32
out that there's some way to trace the murderer from the victim and what I mean by that is if you essentially he's the
00:43:42
Torso killer is taking these bodies apart he's removing all the identifiers from the body and he's just leaving a
00:43:48
torso so therefore if you if you need the hands or the the eyes or the face or the head to to identify the body if you
00:43:55
can't find those you can't identify the Torso that I had to get rid of so therefore to me placing a torso in in a
00:44:03
rubber tub and dropping it off of a trail in a park somewhere just seems to me like a quick way of getting this
00:44:10
thing out of my car and leaving it somewhere and furthermore I don't really care if it takes you 3 hours to discover
00:44:17
what I have left here in the park or if it takes you 3 weeks because you cannot trace it back to me well and yeah my my
00:44:24
thought too on you know I think it's crazy to think that a killer can't change we've seen it multiple times in
00:44:31
the past where you know somebody might kill somebody with a gun and then kill all their other victims with a knife so
00:44:38
you know this idea that these serial killers never change they always kill the same way that just I think
00:44:46
historically that's been proven false well actually it's you're exactly right it's been proven time and time again
00:44:53
that they most of them do change they adapt and here's what typically happens in these cases where you have a span of
00:45:00
Many Bodies over the span of many years right so what typically happens is either a they get better at what they're
00:45:07
doing and they improve and they get harder to catch or two they're something outside of the actual Act of Killing has
00:45:15
changed in their life maybe at one time that they they lived with other people so they had to dump in one way and now
00:45:21
they live alone and they have different means and they have more time and more privacy to do whatever they need to do
00:45:27
that that's one way they changed another way that they changed we saw it with Ted
00:45:30
Bundy he just starts losing control and he's just becomes a frenzy killer after at some point he's he's less thought out
00:45:37
and he's just disorganized where beforehand he was very organized and another situation we've seen in multiple
00:45:43
cases and this happens a lot is they start to get lazy they start to get they think that they're good at what they do
00:45:49
after a few bodies they've not caught me I've been out here running around for years they've not caught me they can't
00:45:54
there's no way they can catch me they don't even know what they're doing I don't have to make the extra effort
00:45:59
anymore you know that's that's very interest interesting point number one you know I'm now you know I haven't said
00:46:06
this publicly before but you know now kind of thinking about the the one killer maybe he did get lazy you know um
00:46:14
just like um uh riffkin riffkin you know was cutting up at first and then decided not
00:46:21
to you know there there was look at the care how how dismembered they were earlier and like even how of the
00:46:29
dismembered victims how they started to be less and less dismembered um you know
00:46:35
there's that and and I think we are may we may find out that actually at least on the gb4 side that the girls may have
00:46:44
worked together um you know the West maer thing is very interesting um because we were able to find out that so
00:46:51
many of them knew each other but they didn't but one thing we didn't go into on the show is they actually some of
00:46:57
them actually knew each other from they all went to the same grammar school the thing that we were able able to point
00:47:03
out on our show andove on our show which was really cool was that there was a caller who had called the mother of one
00:47:10
of the victims now the caller herself she's a sex worker and she tells the mother that you your daughter is dead
00:47:17
she's been killed along with another girl and they're both going to be found in the West Mesa body pit and it turns
00:47:23
out later that this girl that had called she's found in that same pit as well with those with those other two girls so
00:47:30
it's easy to link those three together and when we were yeah and the big question is is how did this lady know to
00:47:37
call the mom of the victim right and then who did she know to get this information from and then how the hell
00:47:43
did she end up in the pit exactly well but the crazy thing here though is that we were able to prove that she knew at
00:47:50
least two of the other girls so you could you were pairing five of the victims together and proving that they
00:47:56
knew one another furthermore the the girl that called that ends up being found later yeah the last time she spoke
00:48:03
to her parents before she was reported missing she had called them and she was very excited she had a new boyfriend he
00:48:10
just got out of prison they were going to run away and get married together and she never identifies the boyfriend the
00:48:16
parents never meet him we don't know his name however it's after this phone call
00:48:20
a few months later she's reported missing and then after that she's found in the west meso with along with these
00:48:26
other girls two of which she named by name and five that were all linked together per our show well let me just
00:48:33
give you a little bit of a vice this year in 2017 if you start dating a guy and he's he's the love of your life and
00:48:40
he just got out of prison don't tell your parents that part okay that's not good or at least at least tell his name
00:48:48
yeah yeah or make sure you get his fingerprints yeah absolutely yeah and you saw did you see the latest
00:48:54
developments in the Mesa case from a couple months ago not really for sure what you're talking about I'll fill you
00:48:59
in real fast so with Lorenzo Montoya who a lot of people thinks is you know the number one suspect who is conveniently
00:49:07
killed um or dead so just recently some journalist put pressure on the records department at Albuquerque Police
00:49:15
Department um and got released some videotapes of Loren from Lorenzo Montoya um and the the news release them and you
00:49:26
it's it's Lorenzo you can't see him um and what they released was like a static phot like a static video of like his bed
00:49:36
and side table and then of um the sound of what sounds like duct tape being pulled so the idea is that he was there
00:49:47
with uh some women they actually released photos of these women too um and that you know we know he's he's
00:49:55
killed in the past um this isn't you know evidence that he is the killer but it does exhibit that if that sounded
00:50:03
correct and it's duct tape and you hear garbage bags that you know he might have
00:50:08
been involved in some other NE nefarious activity um other than just the one murder that we do know he committed well
00:50:14
all right but just between me and you and everybody else that's going to listen to this
00:50:19
case I really don't get the vibe that they're actively investigating the West Mesa case oh what you do exactly let me
00:50:26
give you that idea I feel like in this case what has happened here is that they discovered all these bodies they spent a
00:50:31
good year or two working the case they have a suspect who's dead they have a suspect that is behind bars for another
00:50:38
case and I feel like here they're just saying okay well that's going to have to be good enough well and then we see this
00:50:43
all the time when there's a bunch of sex workers that go missing uh they do because because of the public fear
00:50:51
because of the public outcry yeah they put a little work into it but once it goes out of that you once the public
00:50:56
isn't talking about anymore I think they really just throw up their hands and they go look these women were putting
00:51:02
themselves in danger so look they're sex workers we're we're not going to spend all this time and energy to try to solve
00:51:08
their murder I mean the weird thing is is we actually got that on film where like we were TR that's when the when
00:51:16
that's where we like make the phone call to like the hotline because they weren't
00:51:20
speaking to us so we were like going to call the hotline to like try and speak to them but we couldn't even get through
00:51:27
because both of the numbers were down and so we were frustrated that they weren't going to speak to us but then
00:51:33
you you know you see like oh my God guys like you know your your your hotlines aren't even working I mean how much you
00:51:40
know how much work does it take to do that I I I I think you know Albert is a tough Place
00:51:50
yeah Al is a really tough place you know they've had some real issues with their
00:51:55
law enforcement uh we've spoken to the law enforcement since then and they've kind of been like a little bit like um
00:52:02
reactionary to maybe at least take our phone calls yeah um and it again it like seems like they want to do something but
00:52:11
it also is a systemic problem of just the whole thing yeah well and then with a case as old as as old as a West Mesa
00:52:21
case and everything they [ __ ] up from the beginning looking into that case uh and that they've been um investiga and
00:52:28
still are by the Department of Justice um not for this but for other civil right
00:52:33
violations um in the course of investigating this kind of case with so many victims that's so old you may come
00:52:41
up with something that's not going to reflect too good on yourself as a police department um and I think that's always
00:52:48
a concern um when maybe there's been two to three um uh you know different kinds
00:52:56
of leadership going on over the past decade um you don't want to look like you didn't do your best um even if it
00:53:03
maybe it was the responsibility of um your predecessor right I think that's that's
00:53:08
what we're finding in in a couple of these cases like it's one thing like sure they want to do the work but
00:53:15
they're also a little afraid of what they might find EXA and then they're going to have to like publicly be like
00:53:21
you know I don't mean to change sub subjects here but regarding the long island case there's a part on your show
00:53:27
where you're interviewing either the new Chief or the new commissioner of police
00:53:30
and there's discussion of an FBI profile regarding the Long Island serial killer
00:53:36
and he has said that he's going to to seek that out and have the FBI do it and and has that been addressed has it been
00:53:43
presented to the public it has not been addressed um did he promise to deliver it to us
00:53:50
because hell I'm going to call back I don't from my reculation he didn't promise to deliver it to us he said that
00:53:56
a a profile is going to happen that doesn't mean they have to share it with anyone yeah unfortunately yeah and one
00:54:03
of the biggest updates in this case since the documentary The Killing season which is on Amazon you can check that
00:54:09
out now on Amazon uh I'll put a link again in the show description but one of the big things that came out was the
00:54:15
police chief um it has some charges against him he's facing he's in a little bit of hot water can you talk about that
00:54:21
a little bit yeah um so so this was interesting R got a tweet from a woman uh who claimed to be a sex worker and
00:54:34
um we met her kind of candescent in this car and and uh she uh told us that she allegedly had sex with the former Chief
00:54:45
of Police um uh at at a house in Oak Beach um and you know police officers and sex workers is you know it's not the
00:54:56
craziest thing in the world uh for them to have sex but I guess the point was they had sex in the bathroom of this
00:55:04
house basically four miles away from where uh 11 bodies were found basically four months
00:55:13
after so not only like you know you're just literally you know you've got so many
00:55:21
bodies of sex workers found and here you are a police chief having sex with a sex
00:55:26
worker just like around the block literally and just a couple months later and it's it's just one number one it's
00:55:33
kind of tasteless you know and and Beyond the bounds of like you know um what you should be representing as a
00:55:39
police officer but to kind of do that kind of sends a different message of you know you really don't care about what's
00:55:49
going on and so um there had been a lot of talk on wedu and a lot of other places that you know the police chief
00:55:57
you know he has already been incarcerated uh for um for violating a guy's rights a guy basically broke into
00:56:05
his car uh her at the time he was a heroin addict uh we've told that they would actually break into specifically
00:56:13
police cars to steal drugs because sometimes the police officers have drugs in their car from evidence or what have
00:56:20
you yeah confiscating it so they they knew what cars that they were getting into and they stole they broke into this
00:56:26
police chief's car and inside the car they found a duffel bag and inside the duffel bag they found this like quote
00:56:31
unquote nasty porn um we're not quite sure what nasty porn means but it's got to be pretty nasty for someone to call
00:56:39
it nasty porn so uh take your own inference there um so the police chief goes to the guy's house as like he's
00:56:48
being arrested takes the guy and like starts beating the [ __ ] out of him and this mysterious duffel bag
00:56:55
disappears and the porn disappears um which gives you some indication of maybe what we're looking at and then it
00:57:02
suddenly comes out that this guy had been doing a lot of other things he had been surveilling some other detectives
00:57:07
he and the da allegedly had been in cahoots and there had been all this talk about this guy was running a sex ring
00:57:14
and he was a police chief and you know to the point where people were like saying oh my God this police chief is
00:57:20
the Long Island serial killer that was just kind of nuts but um uh you know we now have a sex worker
00:57:27
who's corroborating that uh she did have sex with this police chief um you know not too far away just
00:57:36
really close and so let's just be clear for a minute because with these allegations coming up with the sex
00:57:42
worker she's saying hey look I had sex with the police chief right and I had sex at this party with the police chief
00:57:50
and we don't know if it was we're assuming that it's p paid for right so and what we do know about the Long
00:57:58
Island serial killer case is that we have Shannon Gilbert which was at a party yeah and she something goes Ary
00:58:06
she leaves the party calling 911 saying they are trying to kill me yeah and then
00:58:12
her body is found months and months or years later yeah and it's it's debatable if Shannon Gilbert's even a victim of
00:58:19
the Long Island hero killer hero but we have you're talking about a sex party or
00:58:24
or party where we're being entertained by a sex worker the former police chief has sex with her in the bathroom at this
00:58:32
Oak beach party and we're talking about Shannon Gilbert being present at an oak beach party now obviously these are two
00:58:39
completely separate different parties but we have a situation here where Joe Brewer has been investigated and some
00:58:46
people say that he's been cleared of any um any responsibility in Shannon Gilbert's death but the problem here is
00:58:53
we have we have additional people that are at that party this wasn't just a Joe Brewer party this was multiple people at
00:58:59
the party and we have unidentified persons at this party because Joe burough was not investigated until well
00:59:05
after the fact right so one could speculate that possibly what if there was the police chief at this party and
00:59:12
if the police chief was at the party and Joe Brewers cleared that maybe Joe Brewers shouldn't have been cleared yeah
00:59:20
maybe he's only cleared to cover up for the unidentified persons that were at the party and this also points out a
00:59:26
frequency in these type of events going on in Oak Beach mhm and and like we also
00:59:31
said a lot of these victims of the case when their friends and family are being interviewed they were saying look we're
00:59:38
going out to these parties or going out to meet somebody and it's a and the amount of money is way higher than it
00:59:45
should have been mhm almost like a lore and maybe it's just this this sick um sex ring where they're using these women
00:59:54
and they don't care about them then they're disposing of them because they are they are people of power and so that
01:00:01
that's kind of where we're at with this you know that's that's coming from One Source um now of course we've continued
01:00:06
to hear these rumors year after year um this is the first person who's come forward but to kind of um legitimize her
01:00:14
statement more people need to come forward more women need to come forward we think they are we've heard yeah rumor
01:00:22
not rumors but murmurings that a scary thing right if you're a woman who um is going to allege that there were these
01:00:29
sex parties with probably drugs with um powerful people in law enforcement that's that's really what are you going
01:00:36
to benefit off of that yeah so it sounds very much like a movie um that's kind of
01:00:41
like why we didn't want to put too much Credence in it um also because we thought it took away from the real
01:00:47
investigation but at the same time something is rotten in Denmark and the unfortunate thing is this is what what
01:00:55
happens and I'm I'm probably going to be wrong um spectacularly wrong here um but
01:01:01
this is what happens in a lot of cases where you know you've got police officers or in this case a police chief
01:01:06
doing really bad things and it ends up tainting the rest of the investigation so people start kind of going off on the
01:01:15
on the conspiracy route that maybe this guy's the killer or something like that and it's it's not that this guy's a
01:01:21
killer it's it's you know these tragic events and ends up kind of bringing out everybody's dirty laundry and and that's
01:01:28
definitely what's happened here yeah okay so Joshua and Rachel with all these new developments what do you think that
01:01:33
this is going to lead to I I mean I am less interested in the um sex Pary vot Beach it is interesting maybe there is
01:01:42
something there I'm more interested in identifying these unidentified um victims I think that's probably the
01:01:48
biggest um possibility to create a timeline by if you identify them you're creating a timeline you're you're
01:01:55
building up that narrative to then go backwards and you know cross reference um if you know maybe there's a digital
01:02:02
footprint we don't know we don't know because we don't even know who they are um so moving forward with trying to ig
01:02:10
peaches trying to ID Asian male which we've been working again with Todd um hoping that we can do something there
01:02:17
there's still Jano number six um still Fire Island Jane do who am I missing uh HML
01:02:25
cherries and then yeah yeah yeah I mean look that's the problem we believe in this case that that one of the best
01:02:30
things to do is concentrate on the missing and unidentified on unidentified not on some of the other stuff but I you
01:02:37
know the other stuff is Sexy and You Know exciting and titillating um rather than just iding some you know person
01:02:44
it's really sad and tragic um it's it's not you know sex parties in below in Long Island right um but you know I
01:02:55
think the most interesting thing is is all the people who are now talking about this case
01:03:00
um you know and it's interesting because like it it it takes the show you know and then the show Sparks this and then
01:03:09
somebody else does that and uh you know it's it's it just requires a lot of time a lot of effort
01:03:17
and a lot of coverage basically I mean this is why we continue to do shows like yours which we think is great you know
01:03:23
it's about reaching out out to to people who want to see these cases get solved and we really believe at this point in
01:03:29
the power of crowd sleuthing you know whether it's web SL D Network Charlie project whatever but you know the
01:03:36
answers are out there well your your show has brought this case to what I like to call present day sleuthing to
01:03:43
present day True Crime Army it's it's more than just um old people sitting at home watching dat line you know now our
01:03:51
show is very interactive with our listeners and we get tips from our listeners as well as theories and case
01:03:57
suggestions and we love all that we love having that interaction we feel like we're one big uh army of ants working
01:04:03
together collectively with one Consciousness yeah and what we're working on right now and thing that
01:04:09
you're spearheading we're hoping to prove something yeah in a case that we covered and if we can do so then we're a
01:04:16
part of the a bunch of this happening it started primarily through uh Cal and by
01:04:24
bringing that to the conscious Forefront and then look what's happened with that
01:04:29
and if he gets a new trial or if they offer him an alpha plead that is directly linked to the public pressure
01:04:36
yeah I believe and then if you look at other shows like uh Missing Mara Murray uh a show dedicated to one case and what
01:04:44
they brought to light as well and you know again with the serial case you got undisclosed and uh uh truth and Justice
01:04:51
and stuff like that and and if it wasn't for this Collective um there wouldn't be
01:04:56
Motion in a lot of these cases right right they would be still standing still they would be colder than ever and
01:05:01
what's great about The Killing season is they went out of their way and championed a place like web SLO and
01:05:07
brought them in they brought them out from their basements and they brought the web sleuths out from behind their
01:05:13
computers and put them in the Forefront trolls they put them in the Forefront of
01:05:16
the investigation and low allowed their opinions their theories to be voiced as well as I mean there was such good
01:05:23
speculation from some of these web web sluther on this case and I think what you're going to see here Captain I think
01:05:29
you're going to see this type of thing trending upwards where where and one can only hope so where we're going to see
01:05:36
the documentarians working with the armchair detectives we're we we're already seeing podcasts working with
01:05:42
armchair detectives and we're going to start to see law enforcement working with the whole group with the
01:05:48
documentarians with the podcasters with the web sluther with the armchair detectives and it can only bring good it
01:05:55
can only help the cause yeah and one of the things that are interesting with what we're working on right now is at
01:06:03
first we kind of felt silly like oh we're just a we're just a true crime podcast like is this are any of these
01:06:09
detectives going to take our thoughts serious now we got kind of Lucky cuz we have u a detective friend that you know
01:06:16
we could drop his name and that kind of helps but I've been really surprised lately with uh your theories on on this
01:06:24
case and I'm sorry that we're kind of being secretive about it but again we and we're not talking about the Long
01:06:29
Island case we're talking about a case that we've been working but we we've gotten lucky that there is a Cold Case
01:06:33
detective in Columbus that's been interested in talking with us and we've spoken to him in the past about a a
01:06:40
previous case to gain some knowledge um and we're I mean to you got to you got to shake some trees and see what falls
01:06:46
out right right right and well and and I think the smartest people know especially when you're in a room of of a
01:06:54
bunch of people the you know if you're a smart person I I believe that you're you're well aware that the answer might
01:07:02
not always come from the smartest person or from the expert you know not you know
01:07:08
normally when they have these cases you know they're when they have these cases you
01:07:14
know it's a eyewitness or somebody that just saw something that comes out later and that opens up a whole another can of
01:07:20
worms so it doesn't have to be an expert that Sol these things cuz I mean look you know I never was this true crime
01:07:28
junkie now I'm a part of True Crime garage you know I I just did it so I could you know oh I know how to record
01:07:35
audio so let me get involved and even this dummy you know has had some pretty interesting thoughts on some cases
01:07:42
throughout our last 70 episodes or whatever well and the great part of it too is that these these documentries you
01:07:48
know it was it was once that only the TV waves were reaching everywhere okay now
01:07:54
we have all these great True Crime podcasts out there that that we we have listeners in Russia you know and and in
01:08:01
Australia in Germany in the UK in Canada all over the place and what's great about that is the we're finding that
01:08:09
there's this community and they're everywhere and that should be scary to the bad guys it's going to get harder
01:08:14
and harder to hide as technology gets better and as the community of these these forces get better yeah so when you
01:08:22
are diving into these cases is know that you might be the one that stumbles upon
01:08:27
something that could make a break in something working with the web sluth community and I know that they have a
01:08:32
lot of good theories on this case what were some of the better theories that you heard I I know you don't have time
01:08:38
to investigate all of them the threads on this case are amazing uh what were some of the theories that were presented
01:08:44
to you I know what I I I mean well the two killers versus one you know right what
01:08:52
else two killers vers one Oak Beach Oak Beach it we went over that hack it we went over that yeah
01:09:01
Peter hacket yeah always law enforcement always law enforcement every one of our
01:09:07
cases everybody's like must be law enforcement must be law enforcement and I think we might have touched upon this
01:09:12
before but it is very interesting and I don't think we've ever quite nailed the understanding of this but basically when
01:09:21
you have a serial killer case or that goes unsolved that has a number of victims the
01:09:29
public typically needs an answer for why the case is unsolved and they we have this need to to find a logical answer
01:09:39
because you know because if it's not law enforcement that means that anybody can
01:09:45
be able to get away with this and so it's just very interesting how um it's like a social experiment that uh people
01:09:53
people always say it is the police who are doing it it uh becomes the most logical reason since the killer hasn't
01:10:00
been caught oh it must be a police officer right um that's very interesting and and of course that came up in Long
01:10:06
Island um right and maybe if it's not a police offer it's officer it's someone in power someone with money someone um
01:10:13
in some kind of control role and that's why they're able to get away with it right where the sex the sex party thing
01:10:19
you know it's it's interesting you definitely see a lot of kind of urban legend you know Mass hysteria things come up
01:10:26
over and over again so yeah I don't know it it was hard for us to really separate
01:10:33
you know what's a what's a specific Theory thank you for talking about these updates with us now what do you think we
01:10:41
can expect with this case going forward so I think we're going to be hearing there's pretty maybe new updates that
01:10:48
are happening yeah you know the FBI is involved in the case and so uh we know I I'm excited I'm definitely
01:10:58
gonna looking forward to seeing what's new going to happen but I think we're going to start to be hearing a lot of
01:11:05
more updates over the next two to three weeks right think so I hope so yeah yeah
01:11:10
that's fantastic we're hoping to hear some more as well and who knows you might find your guys you might find
01:11:15
yourself in a situation where you got to pick up the camera and get back out on the road and and do another show well I
01:11:21
mean look if something breaks we're going to pick up a camera and we're going to go even if you know even if the
01:11:26
show isn't active right that second I mean we did that two weeks ago going out in Long Island right um with the press
01:11:33
conference so you know it's it's not other people who do documentary series is kind of um you come in you you do
01:11:41
your punch card and you care about the victims and their families but at the end of the day you go home and you leave
01:11:46
it you know on the edit room floor essentially unfortunately and fortunately for us uh it's kind of the
01:11:53
47 thing for us um yeah we can't get rid of it if we wanted to yeah I know how you feel thank you both and I'll tell
01:12:02
you what if there's any more developments uh let's get together let's do this again no totally appreciate to
01:12:08
and you know everybody watch Amazon and then jump on web SL and let's see if we could solve this case yeah and Josh and
01:12:16
I are dance mob on what and we're also on Twitter you can reach us uh We've have a lot ofver ation going on kind of
01:12:25
all the time with regards to this case so Josh is at Josh Zan and I'm at at Mills Rachel I'll write those handles
01:12:33
again web sluth is dance mob and then it's Josh Zan for Twitter and Mills Rachel Mills Rachel for Twitter so
01:12:46
thanks again for talking to us two of the coolest people in the True Crime documentary world yeah that's right
01:12:51
thank you both it's been fun all right thank thank you thank you you too thank you take care
01:12:57
bye this week's recommended reading is slave slave girls by Wiley Clarkson who is also the author of Hell hath no fury
01:13:06
and whatever mother says uh this is a plunge into a nightmare of unspeakable abuse and depravity uh this case this B
01:13:15
this book actually features several different cases uh so check out slave girls by Wiley Clarkson you can do that
01:13:20
by going to True Crim garage.com click on the ended page we got all of our books listed there don't forget about
01:13:26
Lost Girls by Robert kker which is one of the best books is the best book about the Gilgo case in the Long Island serial
01:13:33
killer so pick up both of those by going through our Amazon Banner but uh anyways
01:13:38
I'm going to leave you with this clip from this press conference about the accusations that this prostitute is
01:13:44
making towards the police chief I think you'll find it interesting it's about 16
01:13:47
minutes long but check it out it's there's some mind-blowing stuff there [Music]
01:14:10
there has now been a significant development in the oak Beach Gilgo Beach murder for murder's
01:14:19
case that development is that an escort an active escort here in sua county has determined to come
01:14:32
forward and discuss with the Press discuss with the public that this escort met former Chief of Police of
01:14:45
suff County James Burke at a party in Oak beach in 20 and at that party she had sexual relations
01:15:00
with former Chief Burke for which he paid this is the first time that there has been an actual connection
01:15:12
made between former Chief police Burke Oak Beach and prostitution it's the first time this
01:15:22
has ever Cur and that's why it is significant up until now there's been a great deal of surmise about Chief bur
01:15:31
and his involvement with Oak Beach we have circumstantial evidence that he had some knowledge of Oak Beach his
01:15:38
assignment for example to uh the first precinct in that area possibly his assignment to the Marine Bureau in that
01:15:47
area um and his connection with Dr Peter Hackett the former former police surgeon
01:15:54
of suff County uh who was the head of Emergency Medical Services for a several years back in the 90s we now know a new
01:16:04
development has also occurred today we now know that James Burk and Dr Peter Hackett were in connection with each
01:16:14
other working with each other in the late 1990s uh with respect to flight 800 and
01:16:21
the Crash so they knew each other they certainly had a connection with one another and when you take that and
01:16:28
combine that with the knowledge that we're we're giving you today you'll see that these are significant developments
01:16:33
down the road on this [Music] [Applause] case Jimmy Burke never mentioned that his involvement with Oak beach in his
01:16:49
sentencing to the federal judge when he was sentenced for the crimes that he has
01:16:55
been convicted of and for which he is in prison he never mentioned that connection now it is being
01:17:02
made to examine Jimmy Burke under oath as part of the case uh that I I have brought on
01:17:13
behalf of the estate against Dr Hackett he is no longer just conjecture he is now a potential witness in fact so I
01:17:23
will attempt to cross-examine or examine uh former Chief Burke under oath as soon
01:17:31
as the case that's pending in court is decided uh so that's another development as well Jimmy Berg the same man who had
01:17:40
porno in his car the same man who was soliciting prostitution the same man who was responsible for the investigation of
01:17:50
the Gilgo Beach Oak Beach uh murders is the same man who met this escort in Oak Beach and solicited her and had sex with
01:18:06
her and paid for it after the investigation had already commenced so that's why we're here today
01:18:15
and with without more than I'm going to have ask uh that lean uh be willing to answer any
01:18:27
questions so you're alleging that um these parties where Burke was at where you were at um were other people there
01:18:38
yeah um were other uh uh law enforcement there I mean I would imagine so um he was there
01:18:47
uh um I mean I don't know specifically I but I mean I would imagine so but it was
01:18:55
a party there were numerous people there yeah there were numerous people there I
01:18:58
mean um drugs yes right and and so this party where did this party happen o Beach can you just start out by telling
01:19:06
us the story of what happened that you how you came to meet James I was invited by a friend uh while I was at Stony brg
01:19:15
University um well during the time in April I was not at the University enrolled as a student I was um at
01:19:24
another at another school um but I was still coming back to Stony Brook because I was going to be re reinstated in
01:19:33
September and I um went to this party with a friend as I often traveled back up uh to New York because I didn't live
01:19:41
here at the time I lived in Rochester so I came um with a with a friend um and there were there were other girls there
01:19:49
that I knew that I would rather um keep uh under the you know I I don't really want to reveal that um I was told by
01:19:58
someone because my area of study in which I have my bachelor's degree from Stony Brooke um is in you know crime
01:20:07
forensics things like that uh so I was introduced uh well not introduced but I was pointed out to him he was pointed
01:20:16
out to me as a high ranking official no one really gave me his title anything like that so um you know I continued to
01:20:23
party and I remember that the outfit that I wore was not really consistent with what you would see an es an escort
01:20:30
wearing I had on um I think abber proman Fitch cut off shorts and you know just some stupid shirt and you know Converses
01:20:38
so I I didn't really come across as anyone who was um you know someone you could solicit for sex so um I remember
01:20:46
walking by him and saying hello um that was pretty much the extent of that interaction um there was really no um
01:20:55
really nothing uh untour that that occurred at that point uh I came back again in August for another party um it
01:21:04
was it was at the same same location um and at that point I was dressed a little
01:21:10
bit differently I remember what I was growing and it was a little bit more Mis risque um I had never up until this
01:21:16
point uh ever accepted money for sex this is actually my very first encounter with um
01:21:25
uh pay pay pay for you know sex so um well what I would like to add from the first party is I did see Jim Jim
01:21:35
Burke grab a Girl by her hair and drag her to the ground uh I don't know how playful it was or how aggressive it was
01:21:42
I don't really know I wasn't right next to them when it happened um but I I do remember that she was she was an Asian
01:21:49
Asian girl um so uh the second party I went I was a little a little more risque um I
01:21:57
encountered him um we had a conversation uh it it wasn't really much um I was I was fairly intoxicated myself
01:22:08
uh I was not on cocaine I've never done cocaine um it just you know a whole lot of Boo and uh I remember hearing that he
01:22:16
was high up and I figured all right this is my opportunity for you know a a PBA card from uh from you know a high high
01:22:24
ranking official that you know that was just a joke in my head um so he started to do things like um as we were talking
01:22:32
he would rub his hand up my leg which you know I mean I'm I'm a woman I know when a man wants sex so uh you know I
01:22:39
kind of took the queue and he he kind of guided me to the bathroom um where we started to engage in uh sexual behavior
01:22:48
um he was uh frustrated because he could not consummate the ACT uh he became to he he began to get really aggressive um
01:22:58
and he used uh the term that I was not a good [ __ ] um uh so at that point uh he began to um
01:23:10
try to uh reach you know ejaculation through uh oral sex um but it wasn't really oral
01:23:18
sex it was more of him grabbing me in an aggressive manner by my hair his himself inside of me um choking I
01:23:26
remember tears not tears from crying but tears from from how aggressive it was I
01:23:34
was tearing up um and he still couldn't shouldn't uh reach reach a point of um of
01:23:44
ejaculation so he kind of just gave up and uh threw money at me which was my first encounter with um getting paid for
01:23:54
uh for sex was with with was with him now at that point I didn't know that he was you know so high ranking I actually
01:24:02
went back to a police officer friend of mine uh later on and um told him about the encounter and he said that uh he
01:24:11
referred to him as Jimmy um that was that was Jimmy Burke and I said who's Jimmy Burke and he showed me a picture
01:24:19
and I said yeah yeah that's that's him and uh then I saw him again when he got arrested I remember seeing him being let
01:24:27
out in handcuffs and thinking well that makes sense cuz he's you know not a very
01:24:32
nice time I had called in a tip um on an unrelated manner to the goo Beach task force um I called in the tip a couple of
01:24:39
months ago um I uh received a call from the detective in charge of the case uh two one of the two that's what they told
01:24:48
me um his name is detective foro CA um he actually revealed me to the person I tipped on he revealed that I was the CI
01:24:58
to the person that I called the tip in on I have a question you were now you were there not as a as an with an escort
01:25:05
service you were there just as a party just as a party you were never affiliate with any particular esort service were
01:25:11
you did you have knowledge or did you know any of the victims of the of of the the Mur I I did not know any of the were
01:25:16
there other escorts at this party yes how do you know uh I mean now that I'm I've in the business now for 6 years and
01:25:24
in hindsight I can look back and say the Behavior Uh two two women on on another
01:25:30
person's lap being led you know leading into adjacent bedrooms and and doing certain things uh but you're making an
01:25:38
assumption you don't know that the individuals were escorts you you don't you didn't identify the women that were
01:25:45
there as escorts I mean if they walk out with money in their hand doesn't that make them you know doesn't that make it
01:25:51
more suspect is that what they did yes and did you and bur agree to a monetary amount how much did he pay you
01:26:00
he he threw me like a wad between 3 to 400 I I can't really recall uh it was it was just a wad it first it looked like a
01:26:08
100 and then when you you know how sometimes when you have really crisp bills you kind of push them apart and
01:26:14
you notice that there are more underneath that was the the situation and I was a little uh dehumanized but
01:26:21
kind of like oh well I didn't know that I could make that money for 15 minutes of not
01:26:31
doing much uh so you know that that's and this happened after the investigation was already underway this
01:26:40
was in uh the first time I met him in just in passing was in April 2011 I in in that area April 2011 and then I know
01:26:49
in August 2011 is when we had our mini trust can you tell us what the Gilgo tip was that you uh wanted to tell theise
01:26:58
it's unrelated to this the the tip uh that was made to the police by Leanne was related to the Oak Beach case
01:27:12
however it wasn't a tip about Jimmy Burke it was a tip about someone else and Leanne does not want to reveal that
01:27:21
person and and it's not it really would not Advance the point that we're here for today and how you characterize his
01:27:28
behavior that night aggressive uh aggressive arrogant uh Untouchable were you afraid that night
01:27:37
or now have you been afraid since not until they revealed me as a CI when you saw when you witnessed uh
01:27:49
him brag a woman down to the ground and you say you don't know if that was um aggressive or playful I mean were you
01:27:56
alarmed did it look to you like something you should be concerned about she seems to be laughing which was
01:28:01
almost maybe that is consistent with his behavior she has you know encountered him before and that was something that
01:28:09
it was consistent he kind of just wrapped her like this and kind of like like you know took her down you
01:28:16
know I mean it's it hurts more if you just grab by one strand but he kind of like went like this and and just kind of
01:28:23
dragged her down and she she didn't seem to be too too frazzled by it I mean I I
01:28:30
I would have been uh she seemed to be more you [Music] know I guess uh used to the behavior has
01:28:44
your friend that was there that night um provided the same testimony to John uh uh they're they're not going to speak
01:28:51
but I have uh I have stated that I will take a l detector test um I have no problem doing that and whose house were
01:28:58
you at the night of the sexual [Music] encounter the house is is she can identify she believes she can identify
01:29:07
the house which was a large house uh a year round house at Oak Beach and it was adjacent
01:29:15
to the beach uh the actual person who owned the house it's not all that clear at this point
01:29:24
and what she does know she'd rather keep confidential at this [Music] point until next week be good be kind
01:29:43
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