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all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
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what I heard was acid is groovy kill the pigs and I believe I heard that twice at
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first that was the first thing that I remember hearing but it's very jumbl because that's mixed up with my wife
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screaming Jeff help me and my daughter screaming she looks fly we have a triple homicide we have a
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man in the hospital the sole survivor of an attack that went down by four Intruders according to his account what
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we have too Captain is a crime scene that does not provide us any obvious signs for a motive we have no signs of a
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Breakin right when MPS responded to Jeffrey McDonald's call explaining that his family had been stabbed they arrived
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on scene and they found the front door to the apartment locked and secured they found the back door open and if and if
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you believe that there was Intruders you go well okay that makes sense but if you
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believe there wasn't an intruder it still makes sense because the weapons were found discarded in the backyard one
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thing that I do like about this case and it's funny to say you like anything about a triple homicide what I like
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about this case from an investigative standpoint is you only have two options okay so if you are out there
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listening to this case you maybe you've never heard of this case before and you're thinking what the hell could have
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happened here let me clear it up for you real quick one of two things happened either four people entered this home
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attempted to murder four people only successfully killed three of them and fled the scene MH or Jeffrey McDonald
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killed his family staged the scene and provided law enforcement with a story to cover why he's alive and the three other
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members of his family are dead those are your only possibilities here so don't let your imagination run wild it's
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either a or b and if you're going to come to a conclusion you have to pick a side and you only have those two sides
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to choose from so either The Intruders entered through this back door attempted to kill everybody in side and then fled
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leaving the back door open or Jeffrey McDonald killed his family and the instruments that he used to kill them he
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opened up the back door tossed them outside and then called the police right and all the weapons that were used like
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you said before were found with inside the house they don't believe these were weapons that were taken to the scene of
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the crime but again still possible if you have forign Intruders that they use weapons that they they could just be
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breaking in they they might not have been planning on murdering anybody and then they go okay well we're here might
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as well and we have let's see what we have as weapons that so that could apply for the Intruder Theory also implies for
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the husband killing his whole family and you really question again a crime scene
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that leaves us with no obvious signs for a motive it doesn't leave us with any obvious signs of a motive that Jeffrey
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killed his family I mean this was a family man his children were five and two he had been married for a while this
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was okay so maybe his daughter wet the bed we know for a fact that she did wet his side of the bed that's that's an
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absolute fact what he decided to do when he noticed that is one of two things either he gets in an argument loses
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control and kills his family or he goes to sleep on the couch as he said but when it comes to The
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Intruders we don't have a robbery that took place we don't have missing items from the home the only evidence that we
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have of anything of motive as far as Intruders would go is this the word pigs Written in
00:08:16
Blood on the headboard Jeffrey McDonald and his family represent the man and and
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represent whatever these people have an issue with with society and maybe they're trying to they're trying to
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carry out Manson family type murders and attacks MH that really are I mean at the
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heart of the Manson family murders was to instill fear and create these race riots and we wouldn't necessarily learn
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that 1970 but it's almost these senseless murders right that they're that they're
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one and the same as a similar thing that went down in California is now going down in North Carolina these drug crazed
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cult hippies are they're willing to break into anyone's home and kill anybody just because and I don't want to
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get into a big debate because we're not covering the Manson case but that's not what I believe in the motive was and
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that murder let's get into Jeffrey McDonald's description of the four Intruders because as said this only went
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down one of two ways the four Intruders did it or Jeffrey McDonald did it this is from his 1970 interview he describes
00:09:31
these four individuals as follows the most famous of the suspects here would be the lone female Intruder she's the
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one that people who have followed this case or if you have any awareness of this case you've heard about her she is
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really one of the centerpieces of of this case so he describes one blonde female wearing a floppy hat high boots
00:10:01
and a short skirt he says he could not recall the color of the boots although I've seen statements not by McDonald but
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I've seen statements put out there that the boots were were either white or brown he says he cannot recall the exact
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color of the boots he said that they were wet when he saw the boots that that they were shiny or they appeared to be
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wet and that this woman was holding a candle or flashlight in front of her face and she was the one saying that
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acid is groovy kill the pigs someone was saying hit him again and he said it might have been the female Intruder who
00:10:44
was saying hit him again this lady he describes as Caucasian female 16 to 25 years of age 5'2 to 5'4 in tall
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approximately 110 to 130 lb long light blonde hair hanging to the middle of her back wearing a large floppy hat dark
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colored high brown or black fake leather boots possibly either a short skirt or shorts medium build and again holding a
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lit candle in front of her body or flashlight the male Intruders he says one was a Caucasian male 18 to 25 years
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old 5' 10 in tall 70 to 180 lb medium build wearing a tan jacket clean shaven wearing a cross on a chain around his
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neck another one of the male Intruders also Caucasian again 18 to 25 years of age 5' 7 in tall 140 to 150 lb dark hair
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slight to medium build Thin Mustache deep set eyes with pock marks on cheeks and Chin wearing a sweatshirt with Hood
00:12:00
dangling down in the back the other Intruder he describes as a black male age 18 to 24 years of age approximately
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5' 10 in to 5' 11 in tall 160 to 180 lbs medium build medium complexion he had black hair cut close
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to the head and was where well kept wearing an army fat jacket with Sergeant E6 stripes the man was clean shaven and
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had a chubby face that's the Brilliance of this case captain again it's one of two things either these four Intruders
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killed this family or Jeffrey McDonald killed his family the thing here though Captain that's so fascinating to me
00:12:51
is it's a very detailed account per McDonald what happened that night and who is responsible mhm not only is it
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picking one side or the other but you're going to if you believe the Intruder Theory his account is so so
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detailed I think that that's where you run into trouble as an investigator on this case because you go he gave such a
00:13:19
detailed account of The Intruders and what went down that night how could he be lying how could he make it up but
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then it's also the details are are so much so there that that could be his downfall as well yeah but it's also the
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way and we talked about this we talked about this after recording yesterday's show was the way he presents the
00:13:42
evidence it's it's almost like he blurs it well and I think I I did this and I think at that point I was going in and
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out of Consciousness and even when he talks about hearing his wife scream that he then thinks he hears his daughter
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scream but it was all jumbled it's almost like by blurring the lines a little bit it's setting up a get out of
00:14:07
free jail card so if you tell him well that the the forensic evidence doesn't back that up he can go well I don't know
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if my details are 100% correct there's also a problem with that part of his account in my opinion to to say that
00:14:21
there were only four Intruders and that he hears his wife screaming Jeff why are
00:14:25
they doing this to me at the same time that he's being attacked by the four Intruders seems a little difficult to
00:14:34
put that all together if in fact there were only four people that broke into his home that night while we're talking
00:14:41
about the crime scene Captain I want to point something out here and and I want to take something out from the
00:14:47
investigation because I think that this case gets very confusing when you start overlapping all of the evidence the
00:14:55
wouldbe evidence or evidence that nothing is there there and one thing is the footprints okay so one thing that
00:15:04
the MPS immediately questioned in their investigation and Jeffrey McDonald's account of what went down that night is
00:15:11
it had been raining all night when these four Intruders came into the home and McDonald's account as well says he
00:15:21
believed the boots the female boots that he saw were wet soaking wet why were there not wet foot prints all over the
00:15:31
house why was there not mud muddy Footprints and debris you know gra grass and stuff like that inside the home well
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this is also a bloody scene so where's the bloody Footprints of of these there was one bloody footprint found inside
00:15:48
the house mhm and it was Jeffrey McDonald's footprint um where he had stepped in Blood and you could see his
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his footprint was found there which makes sense going off of his account he woke up after he was attacked he goes
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room to room looking to help his family so obviously you would expect to find that there the reason why I say let's go
00:16:13
ahead and toss out the footprint Theory because I don't think that you can conclude that there were Intruders or
00:16:20
not Intruders based off of well we didn't find any wet or muddy Footprints inside the house and I say that because
00:16:28
we have a statement from the military police themselves 14 military police were inside that crime scene while they
00:16:37
were investigating securing the area trying to get help to these four people who were attacked and their own
00:16:44
detectives say we didn't find any Footprints from the MPS so if you didn't find any Footprints from the MPS it's
00:16:52
also logical that you may not find any Footprints from The Intruders correct so I think we can go ahead looking at the
00:16:59
crime scene toss out Footprints or no Footprints as it doesn't help us decide if there were Intruders or not the other
00:17:06
thing I want to go ahead and throw out as well are fingerprints because we have statements
00:17:14
in court documents that make it sound like there were probably some Intruders in the
00:17:20
house because we had 30 30 unidentified fingerprints found inside the McDonald apartment oh that's a lot of a lot of
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unidentified fingerprints if you go into most people's homes you are going to find unidentified fingerprints in most
00:17:38
people's homes one thing that's very interesting about this is the daughters they failed to fingerprint the daughters
00:17:48
in their investigation so it's whoopsie isn't it conceivable to believe that two young
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people that lived in this house house every day probably left some of their own fingerprints in that house in you
00:18:04
have 30 unidentified fingerprints because you failed to fingerprint two of the people that lived inside of the home
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and possibly other acquaintances of the family correct so there again I don't think that
00:18:19
fingerprints with or without them helps us decide if there were Intruders or not
00:18:26
that night so toss out the footprints or lack of footprints toss out the fingerprints and we'll continue through
00:18:33
the evidence and while we're on the suspects here Captain the description of The Intruders provided to us by Jeffrey
00:18:42
McDonald one thing that has really confused this case and made it extremely difficult is that the woman he described
00:18:51
the woman in the floppy hat as she is famously known this woman was found this woman was located a Woman matching that
00:19:01
description was located and questioned and said that on the night of the murders that she had gone out for a ride
00:19:10
with three of her friends her three male friends and they were so far out on drugs that she could not tell you what
00:19:17
she did that night or where she was she could have been at the McDonald House she doesn't know that is what led to the
00:19:25
article 32 hearing of dismissing the cas against Jeffrey McDonald the Army said basically look there's not enough
00:19:33
evidence to try this man right and second of all there's been a woman located that matches the description of
00:19:41
the woman in the floppy hat she cannot account for her whereabouts that night she was on drugs now mind you the Army
00:19:50
kind of decided that whoever committed these triple homicides that they were either mentally insane or hopped up on
00:20:00
drugs right LSD yeah or or what have you tune in so tune in and that's what gets
00:20:08
Difficult about this case Captain they found this woman named Helena stokeley who she matches the description because
00:20:17
she says that she borrowed a hat from a friend a floppy hat borrowed a blonde wig from one of her friends because
00:20:26
Helena stokeley does not have blonde hair she has very dark hair and apparently doesn't own a floppy hat she
00:20:31
says that that night her and her three friends they were out doing drugs and she was so hopped up on drugs can't tell
00:20:37
you exactly what she was doing but she knows she was wearing that blonde wig and that floppy hat then we have
00:20:44
witnesses coming forward that start telling police that Helena stokeley told them that she was somehow involved in
00:20:54
these murders that she was at the McDonald house that night that she had seen how it went down yeah I think
00:21:00
there's a clip of her saying that she at one point yelled assd is groovy kill the pigs she also says that
00:21:10
she believed that she said hit him again once or twice while she was inside the home right which is
00:21:15
two things that Jeffrey claims that these Intruders said mhm so then you go look most of the evidence doesn't point
00:21:26
to their being an intruder most of the evidence points to this dude is guilty he's a piece of [ __ ] for killing his
00:21:34
family right mhm but this is a big piece we we we now we now have this lady that
00:21:42
he's claiming was there when he was attacked and when the murders took place and she's going oh yeah by the way I
00:21:49
borrowed a hat borrowed a wig I was there now I'm telling people Not only was I there but this is what I said now
00:21:58
again I wonder where she could have got this information from is it possible that she got this information from press
00:22:06
releases and there were dozens of witnesses saying that she told them that she was there that night yeah this was
00:22:12
before she was being looked at before her name was known to this case and in the papers well and that gives it more
00:22:20
weight to me because if she was only making statements after she was arrested in question then it to me it would just
00:22:29
be like well here's here's maybe some druggie that's looking for their 15 minutes of fame but she's telling people
00:22:38
this before she's identified as one of The Intruders so in 1970 was the year of the murders and the
00:22:47
year of the article 32 hearings that were conducted by the US Army to decide if we're going to try and and and Court
00:22:55
Marshal Jeffrey McDonald even though it was dismissed it sounds like they wanted to
00:23:02
look at this Helena stokeley person figure out her possible involvement in this whole thing but at the same time
00:23:09
Jeffrey McDonald was still considered a suspect in this case even though they dismissed the case right like I said cuz
00:23:16
the majority of the evidence really points to him so shortly after he gets out of these article 32
00:23:24
hearings he starts doing media interview TV shows uh you heard it there in the trailer in some clips there he goes on
00:23:34
and he starts telling what happened uh on live TV or on these different TV shows and remember Freddy cassab his
00:23:43
father-in-law cassab stood by Jeffrey McDonald however he starts seeing his son-in-law on these TV shows and he
00:23:54
starts hearing the stories that McDonald's telling on these TV shows and he's saying wait a second this isn't
00:24:00
matching up with what some of the stories we've heard from McDonald before there's all these slight variations of
00:24:07
these stories well I'm also assuming that he had some private conversations Jeffrey had some private conversations
00:24:13
with his father-in-law and probably told him some details too so absolutely both
00:24:19
Freddy and Mildred cassab the inlaws Colette's parents testified on Jeffrey McDonald's behalf at the article 32
00:24:29
hearings saying that that they were more emotionally invested in this case than anyone else in the room and neither of
00:24:36
them considered Jeffrey McDonald to be a suspect and I think that that rang loud
00:24:42
and clear to the persons at that article 32 hearing right because essentially they're victims right so you
00:24:51
have victims saying hey we don't think this is the guy so it was their daughter it was their granddaughter right because
00:24:58
a lot of times let's say you have just a little pile of evidence and you go but we don't know if this is enough to
00:25:06
convict him but sometimes those jurors are going to weigh in favor of let's at least charge this guy let's put him on
00:25:17
trial because we have these victims and they need justice but now you have live victims in the courtroom saying we don't
00:25:24
need Justice cuz this isn't the guy what you also have is Jeffrey McDonald moves
00:25:29
out to Long Beach California very quickly after the article 32 hearings are dismissed play on player now we have
00:25:37
Freddy cassab who's starting to see his son-in-law on TV going these his stories
00:25:42
are different he's starting to explain different injuries that he sustained during these attacks that he did not
00:25:50
sustain that cassab knew Jeffrey did not sustain right and so he keeps calling his son-in-law La this is over the
00:25:58
course of months and months and months McDonald's out in California and cassab is getting him on the phone constantly
00:26:05
saying we need to find these four people that killed our family in particular cassab wanted a he wanted to have a copy
00:26:16
of the 2,000 page transcript of the article 32 hearings now cassab wanted this and we would learn this later
00:26:24
Captain but cassab wanted this because he wanted to see what McDonald's statements were to MPS that night he
00:26:32
wanted to see what uh Jeffrey had told investigators all along and compare it to What Jeffrey told him and what he
00:26:40
sees Jeffrey telling in the newspapers currently and when he was on these TV shows he wants to compare all this
00:26:46
Jeffrey McDonald keeps telling cassab that that's not a document that the Army is willing to hand out I've contacted
00:26:55
them multiple times I've asked them for this document it's 2,000 Pages roughly they're not willing to give it to me
00:27:02
right well Freddy cassabs he wasn't born 10 minutes ago eventually he decides to
00:27:07
contact that make him a really young father and grandfather he decides to contact the Army himself and they do in
00:27:14
fact provide him with a copy of the transcript of the article 32 hearings yeah and my issue with this is look you
00:27:20
know you're you're the father-in-law it's not about so much the infidelity whether you think married people should
00:27:28
hook up with other people it's the lying about it right if if if jeffy's wife was
00:27:34
okay with it who am I to say what they do in their marriage but when you're lying about it you're doing something
00:27:40
that she doesn't want to do and then now on top of that his father-in-law is catching him in another lie so all that
00:27:46
all I'm stating is that now we know he's a liar so what else is he lying about Freddy and Mildred cassab wanted to
00:27:54
carry on a family type relationship with Jeffrey McDonald after Colette and the kids were murdered they wanted to carry
00:28:02
on a relationship with their son-in-law he's out in California he kind of he responds to their calls talks to him on
00:28:07
the phone but he doesn't really want much to do with them is what cassab would tell us cab keeps saying we've got
00:28:14
to find out who did this well McDonald tells Freddy we don't have to worry about Colette's murder anymore we don't
00:28:23
have to worry that the police have not found anyone have not arrested anyone because me and a couple of other Green
00:28:29
Beret we tracked down one of the men that was responsible for the murders that night we found him in Texas and we
00:28:37
went there and we did some Street Justice that night we we took care of him you killed him I broke my arm in the
00:28:45
process but me and a couple of guys from the Green Berets we took care of one of
00:28:49
the guys so Freddy cassab you don't have to worry about Colette's murder anymore
00:28:55
we're taking care of it here's my big problem with this again we know he's a liar you know that your son-in-law's a
00:29:03
liar so I don't buy this bag of horseshit Story one bit right right Jeffrey McDonald is not some tough guy
00:29:14
and what it seems to me is you go motive was the motive his daughter taking a piss in his bed no no no no the motive
00:29:24
was he didn't want to be married he didn't want to have kids and he wanted to just sleep with whoever he wanted to
00:29:31
and not have to answer anybody and we have now extra evidence of that what does he do does he try to stay in the
00:29:39
area and try to get Justice for his wife and his daughters no and for his unborn
00:29:46
baby no what does he do he goes out to LA he wants to try to act like a Playboy well he says he goes out there Captain
00:29:53
because he just couldn't continue to live his life the way he was when he was married and when he had children that
00:30:00
that being around his in-laws talking with his in-laws only brought up all of the pain full memories and all of the
00:30:07
nightmares that he was having so he says in his own defense that that is a big portion of why he moved out to
00:30:14
California and why he didn't want to look into the murders the way that Freddy cassab wanted to look into these
00:30:20
murders now when was Freddy cassab born Captain uh not yesterday not 10 minutes ago we don't we didn't have it in our
00:30:28
timeline for when he was born but we know it wasn't 10 minutes ago because he contacts Jeffrey McDonald's employer out
00:30:35
in California remember McDonald told him he took a trip out to Texas with some of
00:30:40
his Green Beret buddies and they took did some Street Justice yeah he told him what dates that he was in Texas cassab
00:30:47
speaks with McDonald's employer and finds out no he was in California and he was at work on those days that he
00:30:53
claimed to have been in Texas solving the murder of his wife wife and daughters yeah yeah liar liar pants on
00:30:59
fire now now hear me out though too think about how how this makes zero sense at all by the way you don't have
00:31:06
to worry about the murders anymore cuz we already took care of one of the pieces of [ __ ] if you're willing to get
00:31:12
a couple of Green Beret and go to some prison Justice and possibly put be put into prison for the rest of your life
00:31:18
for murder you're not going to stop at one of The Intruders you're going to make sure that you find every single one
00:31:24
of The Intruders and you make sure they're dead have you ever seen a Liam niss movie when he he went after the
00:31:31
kidnappers and he killed one and said okay well I know there's another three out there but movie's over folks get
00:31:38
your popcorn and get the [ __ ] out of the theater no that's not what happens Liam
00:31:42
niss gives you a call and says I'm coming for you and he comes after all of them and kills them
00:31:50
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addicts cheers to you and cheers to the goat the colonel Hallelujah to the people on the back some people like to
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call you the baby goat I see some of you back there nodding off wake up you know
00:34:15
who I'm talking about yeah Captain I believe that it was Freddy cassab that really was spearheaded this
00:34:23
investigation to finally bringing charges against Jeffrey McDonald the way that this works is McDonald is he's
00:34:31
discharged from the Army so if he would have remained an officer in the Army this would have been an army problem
00:34:38
right they would have had to take this thing to trial and do it their way but once he's discharge he becomes a
00:34:45
civilian again and now it becomes the problem of the local law enforcement agency we have Freddy cassab who he
00:34:54
starts setting up meetings with different Detectives and explaining to them things that they
00:35:00
missed things that Jeffrey McDonald is saying to him that he knows not to be true saying to them why they should be
00:35:07
charging his son-in-law with the murder of his daughter and two granddaughters it's not until
00:35:16
1979 okay they were killed in 1970 the article 32 hearings were in 1970 but in 1979 they finally take Jeffrey McDonald
00:35:28
to trial and he's charged with three counts of murder again because you have the victims pleading for justice correct
00:35:38
what's interesting here is the opening statements by the prosecution they talk in at length about that magazine the
00:35:50
remember the magazine articles that we were talking about in yesterday's show about the Manson family murder
00:35:57
and how Jeffrey McDonald was having a conversation with his friend Lieutenant Harrison about can you believe what's
00:36:04
going on in California can you believe these crazy hippie Cults that are killing people well they discussed that
00:36:12
Esquire magazine at length in the opening statement because they said what happened was Jeffrey McDonald flew off
00:36:21
the handle lost it there was an argument between him and his wife that turned violent at some point McDonald strikes
00:36:29
her in the head with that piece of wood or the club and then he goes on to kill his wife and his two
00:36:37
daughters when he had to come up with a reason of what happened he remembered back to the magazine articles about the
00:36:47
crazy Cults that are breaking into people's homes the drugged out uh insane hippies that are looking for blood acid
00:36:56
is groovy man he remembered those articles and he set up the scene to make it look like that is what went down and
00:37:06
he had the story The Alibi already written for him it was in the Esquire magazine the March 1970 Esquire magazine
00:37:17
issue yeah and it seems believable because it just happened and the trial hasn't even happened yet in the mans and
00:37:24
family murders so if it could happen happen out west why couldn't it happen out east it could happen anywhere
00:37:33
anywhere where there's young people doing drugs that that want to do violence for no reason at all I would
00:37:39
just say it's less likely to happen on Fort Brag or any army facility Well this was not a closed army base this base was
00:37:48
actually open to the public some of them are closed and that that's one thing that you you go okay well if if it went
00:37:57
down the way McDonald's said on a closed base they would have they would have found the people that did this that
00:38:02
night mhm but that's not the situation here I'm just saying what they're going to go on to present Captain is evidence
00:38:11
that McDonald's story it's just not right it's a little hor there there are problems with his story and again you
00:38:19
only have one of two outcomes here he's he's laid the groundwork for us he told us the story the alternative story of
00:38:27
what happened to his family if you don't believe that he killed them you got to believe the other one so they start
00:38:33
tearing apart his story I I don't like the fact that all the weapons or all the instruments of
00:38:40
murder came from with inside the home I also don't like the fact that we have no
00:38:47
Footprints and we have no evidence of fingerprints being from any of these Intruders quote unquote Intruders uh the
00:38:58
other piece of evidence that I really think works against him is he claims that there's this struggle on this fight
00:39:03
and he's being attacked and stabbed inside the home in the family room and they find zero of his shirt
00:39:12
fibers in the family room yes so remember his description of what went down he says at some point his pajama
00:39:19
top must have been pulled up over top of his head it's around his forearms in his
00:39:24
hand and he's using this to fend off the attacker and there's all of these puncture holes in his pajama top he says
00:39:35
that he's using this to fend off them trying to strike him with the ice pick or with the knife he doesn't know it's
00:39:41
kind of a blur You Know It All Happened very quickly but what the captain's pointing out is that attack per Jeffrey
00:39:47
McDonald went down in the living room or family room what have you yeah there are
00:39:53
no fibers torn off fibers from that pajama top found in the living room where you do find pajama top Jeffrey
00:40:03
McDonald PJ top fibers are in the bedrooms right where Colette was killed in the master bedroom
00:40:11
and his daughters who were killed in their bedrooms well and I have an issue with something and it's not really
00:40:16
pointed out in a lot of arguments that you see online but him taking his daughter that wet the bed and putting in
00:40:25
putting her into her bed I know that times were different but a lot of the times you have to clean the kid up
00:40:34
because if not they can get rashes and stuff and so for him to be a doctor and to go okay well I'm going to move her
00:40:41
out of the bed but there's pee and I don't want to clean it up so I'll just sleep on the couch you still need to
00:40:48
clean up your daughter and he's very detailed about so many parts of the story but he never says why I picked up
00:40:55
my daughter and then then I cleaned her off and then I put her to bed well let's
00:41:00
take that fiber evidence a step further because there's something else that lines up with that fiber evidence MH he
00:41:07
says that he was struck in the head with that club or that piece of wood in the living room mhm well we know that some
00:41:16
of the other victims Colette in particular were struck in the head or neck area with that club or that piece
00:41:24
of wood they found splinters little pieces of fragments of the piece of wood right of the club
00:41:33
where did they find those not the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle's father they found them in the bedrooms not in
00:41:40
the living room where he says he was attacked so therefore it didn't happen so again the physical evidence is not
00:41:46
lining up with his story liar liar pants on fire the other issue is he says that
00:41:52
he administered mouth-to-mouth resuscitation on the three victims inside the home yeah this is a good one
00:41:59
that you're pointing out on break out of the three other victims two of them both of his
00:42:06
daughters were found in their beds anybody that's done mouth the mouth even just somebody like me who's just trained
00:42:13
in in CPR and first aid MH I'm no doctor right this guy's a surgeon but you are a
00:42:19
colonel the two daughters are found in their beds and they're found found lying on their sides if he had administered
00:42:26
mouth the mouth to them one would think being a doctor he would know that you're
00:42:32
you should lay them out flat you're going to have to move or manipulate the body once you find them in their
00:42:39
bedrooms lay them flat and administer mouth to mouth that way right makes zero sense so it just doesn't look like he
00:42:47
did what he said that he did let's take it a step further law enforcement the detectives were able to determine that
00:42:56
the pig that was written in blood colets blood on the headboard in the master bedroom mhm whoever wrote that used two
00:43:06
fingers to smear the blood to make the letters and wore gloves when they applied the blood to the headboard mhm
00:43:14
they could tell this because there were no fingerprints they take that a step further they found pieces of surgical
00:43:21
gloves in the master bedroom covered in Colette's blood M they found surgical gloves in the
00:43:31
cabinet in the kitchen that matched up with the pieces of the surgical gloves found in the master bedroom so if you
00:43:39
are willing to believe that four individuals broke into this home or found the door locked unlocked out back
00:43:46
and entered the home managed to go through the home and find the murder weapons pick their weapons while they're
00:43:52
at the scene they also managed to find surgical gloves and decided to put them on after they've already been inside the
00:43:59
home doesn't make a lot of sense does it no it doesn't make any sense and if you
00:44:02
want to take this a step further well and hold on a second CU I want to point out something in this story like I said
00:44:09
I I think this individual Jeffrey smart enough to know how to blur lines mhm I think he's a chronic liar I think he
00:44:17
probably would lie about things that he wouldn't even need to lie about but when
00:44:21
he said in his story something to the effect of that he could tell that one of the the attackers had gloves on now he's
00:44:31
not stating what kind of gloves but he knows he knows that he used surgical gloves wear these and smear the blood so
00:44:39
they can't get my fingerprint but I also have to establish that I know that one of The Intruders have gloves on them at
00:44:46
the trial Captain two very important things happen in this case that stand out from the others one we talked about
00:44:54
all that that evidence we just discussed but he hires a really good defense team
00:45:00
you know this is on par with maybe not the Dream Team like OJ had but these are he's got a whole team of
00:45:09
lawyers and they kind of set up camp together so they're all working day and night on Jeffrey McDonald's defense the
00:45:18
defense team decides to hire Joe mcginness they wanted a an author Joe mcginness was a wellknown author at the
00:45:27
time and they hired him because they wanted to at some point tell the story Jeffrey McDonald's story of how his
00:45:36
family was killed and tell it from the defenses perspective so they hire this author and
00:45:43
have him hold up with their defense team while they're building their case to defend Jeffrey McDonald the other thing
00:45:51
that happens is that the defense team presents a woman to the court Helena stokeley Helena stokeley and they
00:46:01
present witnesses that say that Helena stokeley told them that she was at the crime scene that she was at the McDonald
00:46:07
House and knows what went down that night yeah that she was all hopped up on assd wearing the blonde wig wearing the
00:46:14
floppy dong hat stokeley when she testifies she basically says I don't know where I was that night
00:46:25
I was on drugs me and my friends were on drugs it was not the first night nor was
00:46:30
it the last night that I cannot recall anything that I did that night I'm a golden God I'm on
00:46:37
drugs however the defense is able to point out that she matches given the wig that she would have been wearing given
00:46:45
the floppy hat that she borrowed from a friend she would have matched the description provided by Jeffrey McDonald
00:46:53
but we also don't know exactly when she borrowed that wig or borrowed that hat according to her statements and this was
00:47:03
not presented at court but according to her statements later she says that she borrowed the wig and the hat for the
00:47:10
outing that night and what's weird about Helena stokeley is her story is going to change
00:47:19
and it's going to become more much more difficult as she tells story she starts filling in some of the blanks and then
00:47:28
you start to wonder man it sounds to me like these four Intruders really did enter the house and did carry this out
00:47:36
the short of it is Jeffrey McDonald is convicted of killing his wife and his two daughters convicted of three
00:47:43
homicides but what we would hear throughout time is all of these Witnesses come forward Helena stokeley
00:47:51
told me she was there that night oh her boyfriend at the time was considered to be some kind of violent maniac and he
00:47:59
matches the description of one of the men of the three that could have been with Helena stokeley that night but of
00:48:08
the three that could have been with her is any of them dead well that's what's difficult Helena stokeley the best that
00:48:14
she can provide to anybody for the longest time was I was there that night but I cannot implicate the other three
00:48:23
that were there with me I was there that night I saw what went down but I will not tell you who the three
00:48:30
people were with me that night what one of my problems with her in general is why would you say anything to anyone
00:48:41
about these murders or even say that you were there yes you're saying hey I'm I I
00:48:47
I can't um tell on the others but if these other individuals or these derange druggy Psychopaths they're going
00:48:58
to find you and they're going to kill you you see what I mean mhm I almost feel like yes she doesn't know if she
00:49:05
was there or not and yes she probably has said multiple times asked it his groovy man but I think some of it is
00:49:13
just we see especially in the 70s 7s and the 80s the popularity of these individuals I mean Charles Manson at one
00:49:25
point had to be in the top five icons of the world personalities of the world where everybody has heard that name has
00:49:34
seen his picture could it just be that this individual wanted some kind of notoriety
00:49:41
and it didn't really matter how it was because when push came to shove when when she's being talked when she's
00:49:47
talking to reporters she seems like she's more confident that she was there and that this murder took place when
00:49:54
she's talking to people that matter cuz they could put her in jail seems like she clams up a little bit this case is
00:50:00
very difficult to go through for me to to sit in my chair and try to stay neutral or to try to keep a a level head
00:50:09
because I look at this case and I see appeal after appeal after appeal after appeal filed from the McDonald
00:50:17
Camp I start to wonder how much and how long and how how costly has keep Jeffrey McDonald B to to the state and
00:50:31
then you take it a step further and you go or is this a huge Injustice did these Intruders kill
00:50:39
his family because then you have you have everybody that that are are McDonald backers that say how can you
00:50:48
have multiple Witnesses multiple people come forward that say they believe Helena
00:50:58
stokeley and I I say this to those people it doesn't mean that what she is telling you is the truth just because
00:51:06
you believe her or she told you something it doesn't mean that that is in fact the truth it just means that
00:51:12
that's what she said with Helena stokeley she has always kind of been a big issue a big problem and also a big
00:51:20
reason why the McDonald Camp has so many things to question and to appeal in this
00:51:25
case we talked about the unidentified fingerprints okay well that's a problem for the prosecution we got into the
00:51:32
fibers and the splinters that were not good for McDonald that made him look very guilty however when he was tried it
00:51:40
was agreed upon that there were at least two hairs or two locations inside the crime scene where they found hair that
00:51:48
they could not matched anyone one of those was a blonde synthetic hair a fake hair see that's that's the Helena
00:51:58
stokeley's story was that she borrowed a blonde wig and entered the home that's the problem with this damn story is like
00:52:05
it this is why it's the great debater right is because again you go okay the word Pig Was Written in Blood using
00:52:16
gloves mhm that a surgeon would wear that you found in the house it's more likely that the surgeon that killed
00:52:25
family would know where those gloves were and then he used that as a way to cover up these murders and to then say
00:52:33
it was this this hippie satanic group or whatever right so a piece of evidence like that goes oh well he's definitely
00:52:41
full of [ __ ] right and then they find something like fake hair blonde now here's my my issue with that is that
00:52:52
that seems like a aha aha we guide moment right and if you found that that blonde strand of hair that would come
00:53:04
from possibly a wig then he is totally innocent but you have two daughters and how many Barbies do they have how many
00:53:15
you to me you would have to test that fiber that synthetic hair yeah yeah that synthetic hair against every single My
00:53:23
Little Pony Barbie doll or whatever yeah this is true the other thing that looks really bad for McDonald
00:53:31
and this this is I understand that this case is you know heavily debated I get it the master debator case I can I can
00:53:40
understand why however I think that what we have here and I think it's something
00:53:45
very unique to any of the you know we've covered so many cases Captain I think this is very unique situation where we
00:53:52
have what I can only describe to everyone out there as divine intervention and what that is in the
00:53:59
McDonald case is that you have a family of four and you have a statistical anomaly something that's
00:54:07
extremely rare where each member of the mcdonal family they have a different blood type Colette is a Jeffrey is B
00:54:17
Kimberly is AB and Kristen is O what did they find at the crime scene a lot of blood a lot of the victim's blood when
00:54:26
they figured out and test all the blood in the house they found that the victim's blood is located in places that
00:54:35
it should not be if Jeffrey McDonald's story is correct right so if they found some of his daughter's blood in the
00:54:42
master bedroom that doesn't line up with the story correct the bigger problem for
00:54:48
Jeffrey McDonald is they found his blood in places that it should not be according to his story
00:54:55
another problem is they did not find his blood where it should have been if you were to believe his story and that's
00:55:03
what I call a little bit of divine intervention that we had a situation that is so extremely rare like this
00:55:10
where you could debate it till you're blue in the face but at the end of the day that's God telling us this is what
00:55:18
went down this man murdered his family and he's not going to get away with it so let me rather than go hold on hold on
00:55:24
a second because hold on a second I know what you're saying but if we find blood
00:55:30
like if we found the daughter's blood in the master bedroom one would assume well
00:55:36
his story just doesn't make any sense but it's like but he wouldn't have known what was happening in those rooms and
00:55:43
it's very possible that when they were attacking when The Intruders were attacking the mother that one of the
00:55:49
daughters ran in you see what I'm saying like right and that's why I don't want to go through all of the locations of
00:55:56
where the three dead victims blood was found right because one it would take us an hour to do so and this is information
00:56:04
that is available to anyone out there if you're so inclined to go looking for it
00:56:09
plus would sound like super nerd but I'm going to point out some places that are
00:56:13
just downright obvious where the blood should not be and it you can't explain it away by one victim walking into
00:56:19
another victim's room okay so the most damning place that you're going to find dead victim's blood in this case is in
00:56:27
the living room where he says None of the victims were where he was attacked by himself by three men and a woman is
00:56:35
watching these three men attack Jeffrey McDonald the problem with his story Captain is the location of the victim's
00:56:42
blood so this is Kimberly McDonald's blood and Colette's blood their blood was found on the March 1970 issue of
00:56:51
Esquire magazine why is that such a problem for Jeffrey McD Donald in his story the magazine was sitting on the
00:56:58
coffee table there's supposed to be this big huge struggle between this military
00:57:02
man and three other men in this living room however the only thing that was disrupted in this entire room was the
00:57:09
coffee table it was knocked over when you knock over the coffee table the and police did this test over and over again
00:57:16
it was very difficult for them to get a situation where the coffee table fell on
00:57:21
top of the magazine and pinned the magazine so the magazine is between the edge of the coffee table and the floor
00:57:29
right now they did this reenactment multiple times and it was like one out of out of dozens of times did they get
00:57:38
the coffee table to fall in a way that the magazine fell between the floor and the coffee table okay so it can happen
00:57:45
it could happen right however according to him he's already under attack in the living room that coffee table would have
00:57:52
been knocked over while these men were attacking him mind you nothing else was Disturbed in the living room their blood
00:57:59
is found on that magazine that was pinned to the floor by the coffee table so that what that tells you is their
00:58:08
blood had to have been placed on that magazine before the coffee table was knocked over that just means his story
00:58:15
is is wrong it's a lie what I'm pointing out here is is what I think believe happened is after he murdered his family
00:58:26
he came in there and knocked over the coffee table he he staged the living room to make it appear like he was
00:58:33
attacked in that room and in the process of staging the room he because he's the
00:58:39
murderer and has blood on his hands he's now transferred the blood from his wife
00:58:45
and from his daughter Kimberly onto the magazine itself yeah it could have been him sitting there and pondering well
00:58:53
what the hell do I do and where the when the blood was transferred and then he goes okay well now I need to Stage this
00:59:00
room and you know where his blood was found where it should not have been this is very troubling for Jeffrey McDonald
00:59:08
as well his blood mind you he's attacked in the living room none of his blood is
00:59:13
found in the living room at all only his wife and daughter Kimberly's blood is found in the living room on that
00:59:19
magazine in the living room his blood is located in the bedroom where Colette was
00:59:26
killed and his blood more importantly that's because I mean they find him lying next to her of course they're
00:59:32
going to find his blood there but a place where his blood should not have been found was located on the floor in
00:59:40
the kitchen right in front of the cabinet that was housing the surgical glove that's that's not good for so if
00:59:50
we are to believe the blood evidence it appears that let and Kimberly were killed he goes into the
00:59:57
living room to Stage the living room to make it look like he was attacked transfers blood to the the
01:00:07
magazine then at some point he realizes I'm going to have to I'm going to have to put some superficial wounds on myself
01:00:15
or nobody's going to believe that four people broke in killed these three people and did nothing to me so after he
01:00:21
harms himself after he cuts himself he then went into the kitchen kneel down opened up the cabinet got out the
01:00:28
surgical gloves went back into the bedroom and putting on the gloves cuz he can't use his bare fingers to write Pig
01:00:37
on the headboard because then his fingerprints would smudge in the blood so he puts on the surgical gloves dips
01:00:45
his fingers and Colette's blood and writes Pig on the headboard yeah that's a ring ring ring D is gone D's Nuts
01:00:55
got him Helena stokeley passed away quite a while ago in fact and a lot of people have continue to believe her
01:01:04
story there's some problems with her story because when she agreed to be filmed and interviewed by two
01:01:13
individuals she told a story of what happened that night she said that her and three males went to the McDonald
01:01:20
House the apartment he was a Target they knew he was a doctor they targeted him because they knew he
01:01:26
was a doctor they found the back door unlocked they went into the home and they confronted Jeffrey McDonald in the
01:01:34
living room they were trying to get drugs from him obviously he's not going to have
01:01:41
drugs to give them at his house so they allowed him to use the kitchen phone he makes a phone call he can't get whatever
01:01:49
they're looking for and then the men attack him she says it was out of her control she didn't know anybody was
01:01:56
going to be attacked that night she just knew they were going to go they targeted
01:02:00
this guy and they were going to get drugs from this guy when that didn't happen she said the three men she were
01:02:06
was with became angry they thought they could physically force him to get what they were looking for and this became
01:02:12
the attack and then because they were all on drugs and out of their minds according to the woman in the floppy hat
01:02:20
they went on and killed McDonald's family there's some issues with her story okay
01:02:26
again nobody received a phone call from Jeffrey McDonald that night his account does not say that the attackers made me
01:02:33
call somebody made me use the phone and second of all when asked what the men were using to attack Jeffrey McDonald
01:02:42
were they using a club a piece of wood a knife an ice pick nope Helena stokeley says they were using their fist yeah I
01:02:51
think sometimes it's hard for people to believe that anybody would come forward and I I don't think that like I said
01:03:01
when it matters when she's talking to a law enforcement she's not giving them these piece of pieces of evidence to
01:03:09
lock her up and throw away the key mhm and it seems like she's giving more details or maybe changing those
01:03:18
details when there's some publicity involved I don't know what would motivate somebody to say they were
01:03:26
involved in the murders of an innocent wife and a pregnant wife and two beautiful young
01:03:36
daughters I don't know what would possess somebody to say those things it happens a lot of time where they exclude
01:03:44
themselves and what does she do in all every single one of the stories she excludes herself I was there we're
01:03:52
probably there for drugs and yeah maybe I said this or maybe I said that but uh I didn't kill anybody that was that was
01:04:00
the other ones but we've also seen some people because they've been on drugs confess to
01:04:07
crimes that it was impossible for them to commit so I I think some of it is um it's just really hard to believe her
01:04:16
especially with the amount of drug use that she had well and this was national news from Jump Street this was
01:04:24
Big Time national news immediately after the murders of these three individuals and so there are crime scene photos in
01:04:33
the newspapers Jeffrey McDonald's story of what he told the authorities was in the
01:04:40
newspapers she could gather a decent amount of information straight from the media to corroborate some of McDonald
01:04:48
story but in the end she couldn't cooporate the whole thing 100% what's interesting to me is once we go to trial
01:04:56
she comes forward and refuses I mean she testifies but refuses to testify that she was there that night she's telling
01:05:02
all these other people that she was and what what people would say and and what the claim ended up being is that the
01:05:10
prosecutor sat her down and threatened her and that's why she refused to testify that her and her friends killed
01:05:18
the McDonald family what was the threat that they claimed the prosecutor threatened her with
01:05:25
they say that he threatened to put her in prison if she testified that she was there that night that she was involved
01:05:31
in the murders what kind of I don't understand why anybody would fault a prosecutor for threatening
01:05:37
that right if isn't that their job like of course if you're dumb enough to not understand that if you murder someone
01:05:45
you could go to prison uh I'm just here to remind you of that that's not a threat that's the way of the world
01:05:51
that's the way this [ __ ] works to basically he's saying hey if you confess in the court of law to this murder which
01:05:58
will then get this guy off and he goes free well guess who we're going to charge then the person that we have on
01:06:06
record in court confessing to the murder that's correct and let's top that off with this here Captain because for years
01:06:15
and years and years McDonald and his Camp have filed appeal after appeal 10 minutes ago no they've been filing
01:06:23
appeals up until I think 2009 2012 MH he was convicted uh tried back in 1979 they've been jamming up the courts
01:06:34
with this with this nonsense for decades well one of their claims was that an unidentified hair that was found in the
01:06:44
hands in the grip of Colette it it's been unidentified for years McDonald said that hair belonged
01:06:54
to the killer to Colette's killer and for years and years and years it remained unidentified then and
01:07:03
2006 March 10th to be exact 2006 DNA results confirmed that the hair found in Colette's right hand was her
01:07:17
own and a hair found in Colette's left hand belonged to Jeffrey McDonald so he tried to use those two hairs to say I've
01:07:26
been wrongfully convicted when again once we figure out what this evidence actually is it only
01:07:33
points back to him and one thing that I find so absurd and so strange bizarrely funny to
01:07:42
me is Jeffrey McDonald you finding something funny he claims one that he's innocent and then he went on to sue Joe
01:07:51
mcginness the guy that was hired to write the book write the Jeffrey McDonald story he sues mcginness because
01:07:58
mcginness writes a book called fatal vision and in that he explains that McDonald is in fact guilty just like the
01:08:05
courts found him and he explains why he believes that McDonald was guilty he said that it was a it was The Perfect
01:08:14
Storm it was a all of this lack of sleep the working the 24-hour shift and then working again this complete lack of
01:08:21
sleep McDonald's taking diet pills or some kind of pills that mcginness discovered and possibly taking other
01:08:30
drugs well one of the side effects was going into a rage so you combine that with W with his
01:08:38
stresses and his lack of sleep and this side effect and he says that you know this is the perfect storm that led to
01:08:44
this man that that otherwise you don't believe would would be capable of something like this yeah but what I find
01:08:51
bizarrely funny in this case is McDonald sues Joe mcginness and then he tells the
01:08:58
Press he says you know this man betrayed me he was one of my best friends my girlfriend you know obviously after the
01:09:07
murders my girlfriend that I had at the time not obviously cooked for him cooked
01:09:12
for Joe mcginness he I was betrayed by one of my best friends well guess what Jeffrey McDonald there is no bigger
01:09:19
betrayal in this world than killing your wife and two daughters okay so I guess I don't have to ask I I love
01:09:29
I love the he betrayed me w w sorry out of all the criminals that we've discussed on the on this show in
01:09:40
the garage Jeffrey McDonald is one that I hate he he's he's up there for me Captain he's he's on my uh do not
01:09:48
resuscitate list yeah so I I guess I don't have to ask this but if you're a betting man your bet goes towards
01:09:57
Jeffrey McDonald being guilty of killing his I will stand up on this table and shout it as loud as I can this man is as
01:10:04
guilty as I've ever seen I don't it's one of those cases I understand why it gets confusing there's all these little
01:10:11
there's all these little things that can then muddy the water Des scent yeah there's there's these little things that
01:10:17
you go wait a second but what about this what about this what about this what about this no push them all aside
01:10:22
because only one of two things happened either he killed them or The Intruders did and his blood evidence tells us he
01:10:29
was moving and manipulating that crime scene because he had to because he killed them yeah what was it that Denzel
01:10:35
Washington said it's the little things that get you [Music] caught thanks for tuning in thanks for
01:10:50
letting us be a part of your week we love you make make sure you follow us on Facebook Twitter Instagram @ True Crime
01:10:58
garage Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful people this week Captain we are
01:11:03
recommending American Justice great crimes and trials by two of my favorites Paul bag and Martin Pho this is an oldie
01:11:12
from 1993 and this is an amazing introduction into True Crime American Justice features 28 different well-known
01:11:21
True Crime cases and the authors are not only fantastic True Crime authors but Paul beg and Martin phto Pho we have
01:11:29
recommended some of his other works on the show before but these two are two of the most incredible ripperologist ever
01:11:38
plus old fans of the great TV series American Justice will love this book and we have this great title as well as
01:11:46
other great titles that you will love on our recommended page available for your
01:11:51
viewing and reading pleasure only at at true Crim garage.com and until next week
01:11:56
be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter explore today's must-have Trends and
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