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[Music] crime [Music] [Applause] [Music] Nancy Annie's mother jumped on an overnight flight to Dublin she arrived
00:03:55
on Tuesday March 30th and went straight to the local gardi St to report her daughter missing Nancy assured the
00:04:03
guarde that her daughter would not have just left she was happy and thrilled to be living in Ireland even stranger
00:04:11
Annie's possessions anything that you would anticipate somebody taking with them if they planned on leaving they
00:04:17
were all found right where Annie left them in the flat the guard's investigation got off to a slow start
00:04:26
Annie's missing photo and public appeal for information were not issued for another 7 days this is 7 days after her
00:04:34
mother arrived Annie's father joined Nancy and Dublin for the search of their daughter the mcck together stayed for 6
00:04:45
weeks working with the Garde on the investigation the Garde put together that Annie had called her friend an that
00:04:53
day asking her to go hiking that Annie had been possibly seen taking this bus in the direction of inis Ky which then
00:05:03
naturally kind of shifted the focus of their investigation from the Sandy Mount area to the inis KY area right and then
00:05:12
of course we have the possible sightings of her at the post office and the pub after that there was nothing frustrated
00:05:21
with the lack of progress the mccarrick hired a seasoned private investigator recommended to them by the US Embassy
00:05:29
one local printer even offered to print up 10,000 Flyers advertising Annie's disappearance which included her picture
00:05:38
and her description which included the outfit they believe she was wearing that day a
00:05:44
dark tweed jacket right Ox blood colored boots jeans and a Large Satchel type bag
00:05:50
which her mother Nancy says Annie took with her everywhere this description of her clothes is pretty much backed up by
00:05:57
what we saw on on the bank CCTV footage with their private investigator the mccarrick canvas the inisar area going
00:06:08
door too with Annie's photo to all of the homes between the small village and Johnny Fox's Pub Garde officers spoke
00:06:18
with all of Annie's friends two former boyfriends were questioned although Gard would not address whether they were
00:06:25
actually suspects right all those with records of sexual assault in the vicinity were question official searches
00:06:32
were conducted hundreds of Acres were in fact searched in this investigation a computer generated sketch of the man in
00:06:41
the wax jacket supposedly seen by the bouncer was circulated describing this man as being in his mid 20s 5'9 in to 5'
00:06:52
10 in tall with dark brown hair a media blitz saturated the news with photos and
00:06:59
details about Annie resulting in hundreds of tips the mccarrick desperate even consulted psychics right in this
00:07:08
investigation but despite all of these efforts no trace of Annie mccarrick has ever has ever been found the private
00:07:16
investigator hired by the mccarrick family this is Brian McCarthy says that after looking into
00:07:23
Annie's disappearance and to the following all the leads that he could find and I couldn't get a great detailed
00:07:33
answer for this here Captain but he says the private investigator says he does not believe that the woman seen at
00:07:41
Johnny Fox's that night was Annie yeah everybody has their own beliefs and and you wonder is that coming from evidence
00:07:51
or is that just coming from a gut feeling this case is weird because when we look at something like Brian schaer
00:07:58
again so weird to me that these missing person cases schaer goes into a bar he's
00:08:04
last seen on on surveillance Mara Murray she's last seen at a ATM now we have Annie's case she was
00:08:13
last seen that day that she went missing on at that the CCTV footage mhm it it makes that footage so much more
00:08:25
haunting but yeah but yeah it's um this one's different and it feels different because you can't really have
00:08:36
the argument of normally with the missing person case you go okay well is there a reason they would want to run
00:08:43
away she kind of already did she yeah she's living elsewhere yep she's living across the pond thousands of miles away
00:08:53
from her family thousands of miles away from where she grew up so that kind of already happen but she didn't do so in a
00:09:01
way where she wanted to lessen contact with her family she was still close with her family her mother's coming to visit
00:09:09
yes her father didn't want her to go back but at some point your family gets over that so there's no if she wanted to
00:09:20
lose contact with her past or her family all she had to do is just not answer a phone anymore do look and I know that ru
00:09:29
have changed since 911 so this being 1993 may not really apply to what I'm thinking now but do you need a passport
00:09:38
to travel from country to country in Europe because a lot of times you can just H hop on a train and and go to
00:09:44
another country right where in the US we're not so we're not built like that you know it's we're traveling to another
00:09:52
state often but since 911 you need a passport to get to Canada right you didn't before but what I'm getting
00:09:59
getting at here I only bring that up because we do know her passport was found in her apartment right so if she
00:10:05
was planning on leaving she's already kind of slowing down her travel in some manner by not taking that with her I
00:10:12
could be wrong but I would I still think to this day you just need your ID to get
00:10:18
to certain countries that you don't even need your passport over in the UK what did Jerry Seinfeld say about a driver's
00:10:25
license what what is required to have a driver's license apparently just a face yeah you know for the picture taking
00:10:31
process you need no hands sadly Captain after a year-long investigation gardi turned up really nothing new in this
00:10:39
case well again there's also thousands of sightings yeah that they had to run down and when you think about
00:10:46
investigating anything can you imagine every time you get a call saying oh we think we saw her at this restaurant or
00:10:54
we think we saw her here and how many 5'6 to 5' 10 Bernette Americans did somebody meet and go oh my God I think
00:11:06
that's Annie so the amount of work that they had to put into this case was was tremendous Nancy and John her parents
00:11:17
returned to the US This months earlier you know we're at the year-long portion of the investigation now on our timeline
00:11:24
they they went back months earlier but they did go back to Ireland again in uh once more this on the first
00:11:32
anniversary of her disappearance right hopeful that the publicity just from their
00:11:37
visit and the reward money which was now $150,000 I'm guessing that's in dollars
00:11:45
uh was announced they were hoping that this would spur some type of movement on the case it did not nothing new about
00:11:52
Annie's case was reported until October of 2008 yeah when an article in the Irish Times reported the following uh
00:12:02
and bear with me as I read through this gardi investigating The Disappearance of
00:12:07
and presumed murder of American student Annie M mccarrick have interviewed two new suspects the suspects were
00:12:14
identified after the gard's cold case review Squad recommended a reinvestigation of the case by gardi and
00:12:22
Bray County Wicklow the case was formally handed over during the summer and has now resulted in the
00:12:29
identification of two new suspects and the presumed murder of the New Yorker the Irish Times understands the
00:12:37
investigating team selected the two men for interview based on a review of statements taken when Miss mcck
00:12:45
disappeared 15 years ago and also based on more recent information from members of the public gardi Believe Miss car was
00:12:54
last seen in Johnny Fox's Pub and Glenn Colin County wolo on March 26th 1993 so we have the private investigator
00:13:05
who says I don't think she was ever there we have this article that makes it sound like gardi investigators believe
00:13:13
that she was at Johnny foxes um yeah and then it goes on to mention a few different things I'm going to kind of
00:13:20
skip around here um they're mentioning all this stating while this was going on in '93 while a con icted jailed rapist
00:13:30
has long been noted in the media as a suspect neither of these two men that were interviewed is neither of them were
00:13:38
arrested or considered to be a PR a prisoner at any time and as we said uh it doesn't sound like they were
00:13:47
officially suspects and it does say in this article that neither of them have a criminal
00:13:52
record but what is interesting is they're saying we went back and we're reviewing all of the old information
00:13:58
that we did have and because of this we see this in a lot of cases when they go cold and you hand them over to new
00:14:05
investigators they go oh wait a second this lead and this lead these were potential leads that we do not believe
00:14:12
were properly followed up on at that time right or had nowhere to go at that time yeah so now we're going to talk to
00:14:19
these two individuals and try to clear some things up at least it's a lead that they're following up further on but we
00:14:27
don't know the nature of those interviews and we do know that they weren't considered as far as the media
00:14:34
knows to be actual suspects well the laws over there are different as well too because if you're accused of a
00:14:42
sexual assault or rape uh as a male they do not use your name so and I've thought about this just in
00:14:51
the last couple days because there was some charges against uh possibly charges against a UFC fighter
00:14:59
Conor McGregor that have never really hit the mainstream media in America but a lot of that is we're not clear if he
00:15:07
was charged or not because they don't use the person's name so on one sense you think well that's this country
00:15:17
protecting the males but on on some level maybe it's a way to by everything being a little more closed down and a
00:15:28
little more controlled by the courts maybe it's allowing for the female accusers or the female victims to
00:15:36
be able to come forward in such a way that they they feel more likely to come forward if that
00:15:43
makes any sense well I think where we need to go from from here Captain is we need to go through what we introduced to
00:15:51
everyone in the trailer which is Ireland's Vanishing triangle and I I do want to make a
00:15:58
special note here about my research for these cases that we're about to get into I relied quite a bit extensively in
00:16:09
fact on a book called missing presumed by Alan Bailey yeah I kept on hearing that uh in the different documentaries
00:16:17
and things they would talk about that book I'm I'm assuming it's pretty well written something that we have yet to
00:16:24
mention which goes along with the vanishing triangle is the the investigative initiative called
00:16:31
operation Trace so in the time period between 1993 and 1998 a significant number of women vanished in an 80m area
00:16:42
outside of Dublin in the Linder area and what became known as The Vanishing triangle six of these cases are
00:16:50
particularly well known so let's take a brief look at these disappearances which
00:16:56
did begin with Annie mccarrick's case so following her disappearance we have The Disappearance of Jojo
00:17:04
Dollard on November 9th 1995 21-year-old Josephine known better as JoJo Dollard went missing she was a waitress who
00:17:14
lived with her sister in Kalen a small town in the county of Kilkenny that Thursday night she met
00:17:23
with friends in Dublin quite a ways from home and planned to return home by bus however she missed the last bus and
00:17:30
started hitchhiking which as we said was fairly common during this time her first two
00:17:37
rides took her halfway home to the town of Moen and I hope I have that right I probably don't m o n e where she called
00:17:48
a friend from a phone booth this is around midnight Captain she told her friend that she was hitching a ride and
00:17:58
waiting for another ride to come along multiple Witnesses later told the Garde that she saw that they saw a young woman
00:18:06
talking in the phone booth but with the door open and she's still trying to thumb a ride even though she's on the
00:18:13
phone apparently while she's on the phone with her friend she tells the friend hey hold on
00:18:19
a minute she's gone for about 30 seconds before returning to the phone and saying
00:18:23
to the friend I have a lift I'm off a witness driving by told police that she saw a car pull over near that phone
00:18:32
booth and saw a woman get into a vehicle JoJo Dollard was never seen again Garde
00:18:41
officers spoke with the two drivers that picked up Jojo and drove her you know as
00:18:47
far that far that night but again after that point it's it's really a mystery we
00:18:54
also have 17-year-old Sierra Breen who went missing from the seaside town of dundock and this is on February 13th
00:19:06
1997 Sierra's mother said that she and Sierra went to bed around midnight and when she got up about 2: in the
00:19:14
morning she noticed that her daughter was gone they found the latch to her window
00:19:21
it it was unlocked the general thought here and this is the opinion of her mother and
00:19:27
the guard D was that at some point in the night Sierra decided to leave on her own and left the window you know went
00:19:37
out the window leaving it unlocked so that whenever she was going to sneak back into the home she would have a way
00:19:43
in she too has never been seen since then in August of 1996 in the town of tulamar a 25-year-old hairdresser
00:19:55
named Fiona Pender went missing she is reported to to be 7 months pregnant at the time of her disappearance she's last
00:20:02
seen at an apartment that she shared with her boyfriend John Thompson he says he left for work to go work on his
00:20:12
family farm at 6:00 a.m. it was thought that she may have gone out uh after sometime after he left but
00:20:21
what we do know is she is never seen again after this statement of John Thompson saying hey I left and she was
00:20:26
she was fine at the time a friend stopped by her apartment later that day but the curtains were drawn so she
00:20:33
assumed Fiona was asleep and you know nobody answers the door her family does report her missing
00:20:41
this was not until the next day extensive searches and inquiries turned up nothing we have a second Fiona to go
00:20:50
through as well here Captain this is in February of 1998 Fiona Senate disappeared after
00:20:56
leaving Butler's po Pub in Wexford she had recently suffered a breakup with the father of her child but everyone says
00:21:05
she was in good spirits and had social plans she looked forward to this according to her family that night she
00:21:12
met up with friends at the pub and left at closing time to walk a mile along Country Roads to her home this is the
00:21:21
last sighting of Fiona she was not reported missing for 10 days her home uh that she was renting at the time
00:21:30
provided no clues that I could find in any of the reports I think the thought here Captain is that she never made it
00:21:38
back to her home that night right in July of 98 still another mysterious disappearance this was this is the
00:21:48
Tipping Point okay you talked about earlier oh nobody should be hitchhiking we got all these missing women this here
00:21:56
is the that's from 70s though in our timeline yeah yeah different histories uh we certainly learned our lesson
00:22:04
unfortunately here in the 70s uh in the United States but again this is when hysteria
00:22:10
is going to set in at least in the sense of the the press and in the media for Fears of a possible serial killer this
00:22:19
comes about when we have The Disappearance of an 18-year-old student teacher dear D
00:22:26
Jacob as with Annie's case dearr spent the day running errands in her hometown uh she was in Newbridge thanks to CCTV
00:22:35
footage it is known that dearra hit the bank at 2:30 p.m. the post office 10 minutes later and also went to the
00:22:44
grocery store she also visited her grandmother at the Sweet Shop she owned in town called she called a friend from
00:22:51
a phone kiosk and met some friends at a pub she was last seen exchanging greeting with a neighbor according to
00:22:59
one article quote neighbors saw her about 200 yard from her home and then suddenly she was gone she was standing
00:23:07
at the side of the road about to cross over the street and then she was gone according to articles from the time it
00:23:17
was established that deardra never made it to her front door she was never seen again despite Swift and massive official
00:23:26
searches for her her family has some kind of hope it sounds like that perhaps she ran off to start a new life but of
00:23:34
course they know how unlikely this is in the book missing presumed by Alan Bailey
00:23:42
he writes it was as if the Earth had opened and swallowed her hole that's like every missing person case though
00:23:50
right like yeah a lot of them it's it's almost like there's another dimension that they just slip
00:23:56
into well you're hitting on something here that I wanted to really make sure that we pointed out with that of Annie's
00:24:04
case okay that's what we're spotlighting in these two episodes Annie's case yes we have these other ones to
00:24:10
consider but with her case 1993 I feel like the problems all the things that are problematic about her
00:24:17
case and the investigation we wouldn't have those problems in 2020 there would have been a
00:24:25
lot more cameras going on right cell phone ping technology yeah cell phones we would have street cameras business
00:24:33
cameras we might even have cameras on these buses and what I'm pointing out here is not so much
00:24:42
so it's the correction of the timeline and her whereabouts along that timeline we we mentioned that a lot of those
00:24:50
sightings while some of them are very believable they are officially unconfirmed so we don't know what time
00:24:58
she went missing we don't know what account is the first false one right if somebody says hey I saw her at the post
00:25:08
office and she wasn't we we have other video evidence to prove that she never made it to that post office we know
00:25:16
something happened before right that potential sighting yeah or you take the pub for example with technology now or
00:25:22
or people constantly going to places all this is a heavy uh tourist attraction guess what happens at heavy tourist
00:25:30
attractions pictures are taken and would there be a way with the 300 and some people there taking pictures could we
00:25:39
could we have got picture of Annie like in the background of a picture to confirm that she actually made it to
00:25:45
that Pub yeah and and with all of these unexplained disappearances of young ladies in a relatively I mean these are
00:25:53
lowrisk Lifestyles that most of these ladies are living that's when we start seeing the headlines in the Irish media
00:26:02
that are going to talk about a possible serial killer preying on women in the areas around Dublin so we see a bit of a
00:26:09
media frenzy here with this now after Dedra disappeared in 1998 then uh Garde commissioner Pat burn established
00:26:19
operation Trace under an FBI trained assistant commissioner named John Hickey to investigate possible links between
00:26:28
the original six cases the two Fiona Annie JoJo Sierra and deerra right commissioner burn believed that all six
00:26:38
missing women had been murdered although it was premature to suggest that the cases were in fact linked one thing I
00:26:48
want to point out here Captain when we talk about this Vanishing triangle or what kind of list how many victims we
00:26:54
possibly have I've seen this list with as with as few as six victims who we just mentioned it seems pretty common
00:27:04
that eight is the common number reported right but I've also seen this to include
00:27:10
up to 15 strange occurrences and two of them being murders that took place before Annie
00:27:19
mccarrick went dis went missing right what I do want to point out though again eight seems to be the most
00:27:28
common number what's interesting to me about that number eight is within a 5ye and 4mon times span we have eight women
00:27:39
who are all I mean within a what 15 years of one another they all go missing and there this is like no trace of them
00:27:51
has ever found they don't find a body we talked about that in the trailer how at
00:27:56
some point they they're offering up a reward that just results in into leading investigators to an actual body right
00:28:04
you have with missing persons you have you have some terrible terrible things working against you in your
00:28:12
investigation a murder can be easier to investigate than a missing person's case
00:28:17
especially when you have the commissioner coming out and saying hey because there's been no activity we
00:28:24
believe that these eight missing women have been murdered we don't know if there's a link between any of them but
00:28:30
the thing that they don't have that you would have in a murder investigation you don't have a body
00:28:37
which which can contain a lot of evidence a lot of Cl Clues a lot of leads you don't have a crime scene So
00:28:44
you you're really working against it right away and have you seen footage of the surrounding areas that took place in
00:28:52
these searches some of them yes yeah I mean there's some spots that are so desolate and it's almost like the
00:28:59
perfect grounds to be able to go hide a body or to bury a body here's the other thing too we talked we referenced that
00:29:08
um the Wicklow area several times yeah and what we do know is when you look at when you look at lists that contain the
00:29:18
15 that I had mentioned they found some bodies in that Wick in the wicko mountains is what it's often referred to
00:29:26
as the more I kept reading about this Captain I started wondering like you know how like here we say oh the you
00:29:33
know like kind of kind of a common Dumping Ground right to hide bodies be it even when they're the
00:29:41
crimes are perpetrated by by different individuals you know is it like The Place Beyond the Pines where all they
00:29:49
everyone's kind of when you need a place to dump a body this is where you go but
00:29:54
one thing that I think that we see here and I'm I'm not going to to um I don't want to mislead anybody or take them
00:30:01
down any roads that we don't have to go down because we have a lot still to get to there there's no part of me that
00:30:08
believes all 15 of these cases are in fact connected there's no part of me that believes all eight of these cases
00:30:16
are in fact connected there are yes there are some similarities however we have in some of these cases
00:30:25
where individuals close to the missing person to the victim have been suspected of being
00:30:32
involved in their disappearance where we don't have that with Annie Annie's is a little more
00:30:40
mysterious and part of that too is she's not from there she's not from the area she's not lived there her whole life she
00:30:47
has a a shorter time span and a smaller circle of people and yet she goes missing and we don't have any clue as to
00:30:55
where she is [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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[Music] 2023 Captain you have a lovely voice thank you for for singing that for us it
00:33:22
didn't really take me that long no just you know like one take that was me and the shower I I get a little higher so I
00:33:30
do want to mention here Captain we talked about this book missing presumed and really in this case in
00:33:37
these cases here there's really nobody more qualified for this type of book because Alan Bailey spent 13 years as
00:33:48
the national coordinator for the operation Trace task force the task force eventually came to the conclusion
00:33:56
that there was no serial killer involved in a statement that we would see uh by Bailey told to the Wicklow voice
00:34:06
newspaper in 2014 he said quote in the end we could name viable independent suspects in five of the cases on the
00:34:16
other hand others believe that Annie mccarrick Dedra Jacob and JoJo dard are all Linked In some form or fashion that
00:34:26
it is likely that one killer is responsible for those three disappearances right Gard assistant
00:34:33
commissioner Martin donellan who was the initial lead investigator on Annie's case spoke with the Irish
00:34:42
Times about 20 years later this is in 2013 he said to him the similarities between the cases of Annie Jojo and
00:34:52
Dedra could not be ignored these were he considered they all go missing around the same area
00:35:00
around the same time of day there was just too many possible similarities for him to to set that aside now though I
00:35:10
think we should get into some Persons of Interest Who we know were considered in
00:35:16
Annie's case first this is according to the April 2019 University Express article called
00:35:27
Ireland's Vanishing triangle we cited this article earlier in fact but they say that gardi originally focused on a
00:35:35
man Annie knew this was based on information gathered from one of her friends that Annie had a liaz on with
00:35:43
someone she had worked with according to the friend Annie had seen this man on the Saturday before her disappearance
00:35:53
and she told her friend that she had quote let things get out of hand with him and just wanted to forget about the
00:36:01
whole thing gardi questioned the man and blew apart The Alibi he provided which this of course is going to cast further
00:36:12
suspicion on him you provide an alibi that doesn't seem to be true after intensive questioning the man
00:36:19
admitted to the the interlude with Annie and told police he had lied to hide from
00:36:26
his girl girlfriend the fact that he was cheating with Annie Douger according to
00:36:32
this article the guarde took this at face value and it looks like never they never Revisited this man in question now
00:36:41
the book missing presumed also dismissed this man as a suspect this leads us to Robert
00:36:49
Howard in October of 2005 the BBC News reported that the guarde investigating the missing women of the vanishing
00:36:58
triangle had filed paperwork to interview a convicted murderer named Robert Howard he's 61 years old known in
00:37:06
the press as the werewolf Howard's records have been sealed but had recently been opened and
00:37:14
the Press determined that Howard had multiple convictions for rape murder and child abuse the files indicated that
00:37:21
police in both Ireland and England suspected that Howard may be linked to The Disappearance of up to six women two
00:37:29
cases in particular were being examined to see if Howard could be responsible these were the cases of Jojo Dollard and
00:37:38
Annie mccarrick since being convicted in 2003 Howard was serving a life sentence
00:37:45
for the 2001 rape and murder of a 14-year-old girl in London her name is Hannah Williams her body was found 2
00:37:53
years after she went missing Howard reportedly had up to 12 addresses in various parts of Ireland throughout the
00:38:03
1990s he was linked to a sexual attack on a teenage girl in Dublin in 1993 the same year that Annie vanished
00:38:14
so this very dangerous werewolf man is reported or believed to possibly have been in the area the same about the same
00:38:23
time that Annie goes missing right here we have one that I know you're going to like Captain in fact I
00:38:30
shouldn't say going to like I think you do like it this is the IRA Hitman so in 2009 Hitman okay keep going
00:38:40
a retired detective that's what I titled it it might be you might know it as something else in 2009 a retired
00:38:47
detective Sergeant uh remember we have Allan Bailey revealed that he had a very reliable source who told him what
00:38:55
happened to Annie he says this theory is explored in depth in his book now according to Bailey this
00:39:04
man had been seen by the bouncer at Johnny Fox's paying for Annie so under this Theory Annie was at Johnny Fox's
00:39:14
that night with this man who happens to be a what what I'm calling a Hitman he's
00:39:20
a Hitman for the West Belfast Brigade of the Irish Republican Army or Ira listeners might recall that the IRA
00:39:30
was an extremist militant Group which fought to end British rule of Ireland and ensure unification of the Irish
00:39:39
people under the democratic government this supposed Hitman had fled from murder charges in North Ireland and
00:39:50
was on the lamb in the Republic of Ireland living with some friends in a safe house near Johnny foxes according
00:39:58
to Bailey's Source The Hitman and Annie got a little drunk and the Hitman told Annie things he's not supposed to talk
00:40:06
about mhm so this is talking about illegal activities and about his organization might have talked about the
00:40:14
murder charges well when he realized that he had related secret information to her he
00:40:22
recognized that he needed to get rid of Annie he either offered her a ride or otherwise lured her into his Ford Sierra
00:40:33
while making sure that they were not seen leaving Johnny Fox's together after Annie and the Hitman left in his vehicle
00:40:42
he says he strangled her and hid her body under some bushes when he told his colleagues what he had done at the safe
00:40:50
house yeah they they well I don't I don't have information if it was the people at the safe house but I think
00:40:56
that's a safe assumption yeah he said they work to help dispose of her body more thoroughly somewhere in the Wicklow
00:41:06
mountains where she would never be found yeah they buried her apparently this Ira
00:41:12
Hitman later reportedly returned to Northern Ireland where it is believed that he may have
00:41:18
committed a sexual assault to which he then fled to America it seems like the the last known place he was possibly
00:41:26
living was in the state of Texas right right but it wasn't that he fled that the IRA helped him
00:41:35
leave yeah so to make that clear this is a story being told to um Mr Bailey about
00:41:44
what possibly happened to Annie that night yeah and what's tough about this and the reason why this makes a lot of
00:41:53
sense to me is that you have another member of the Ira coming forward and basically saying hey by the way that was
00:42:01
Annie and this guy that was a part of the IRA murdered her and we a collective group of people helped cover it up so by
00:42:13
coming forward you're not you're not just making the claim that again we've seen it in several cases where somebody
00:42:21
comes forward and makes a claim against somebody else and maybe they're more involved than what they're stating
00:42:26
but they're still involved so you have somebody coming forward and not coming forward in the
00:42:33
greatest of light I got to come forward and confess against this guy but I also have to conf I have to confess against
00:42:41
myself and on top of that I have to confess against other individuals that I know are horrible individuals I would
00:42:48
like to know more details of this Theory that's related to Mr Bailey because I think where it falls short
00:42:57
we still have no body there's there's no one to lead us to where Annie is if there's somebody at this area it's going
00:43:05
to be hard for you to remember unless you put her in a certain area based off of a certain Landmark you would it'd be
00:43:14
very difficult we're talking about hundreds and hundreds of Acres that they could have buried her I can get on board
00:43:19
with that I see that so but the other problem is start looking up the IRA and sexual assaults I mean there's multiple
00:43:27
individuals that raped children that they covered that up there sexual assaults they covered up they were
00:43:34
covering up murders people that should have been charged with crimes and they were having them you know they were
00:43:39
sending them to America so they wouldn't have to face these criminal charges mhm
00:43:44
and one of the things that I really do like about the eyewitness at the bar was he even States in his initial thing okay
00:43:52
flat chest uh we we have a broad should shoulders a militant haircut mhm and I just think with that eyewitness
00:44:06
account with the eyewitness account the person that knew or saw her in line to put her on a bus that would put her in
00:44:12
that area that's some evidence that she's in that area and then like I said the other guy
00:44:20
coming forward and then why does it it's going to lead to a dead end anyways because the IRA is covering up all this
00:44:30
nonsense that all their members have been a part of mhm and like I said to even Explore some of these
00:44:38
claims I didn't see anything on the first five or six pages of Google as you search because they're they're showing
00:44:45
all these other cases that the IRA has covered up or or set people away so they couldn't be charged with crimes it's
00:44:54
horrible so that leads us to a man that's probably better known in this case or these cases and his name is
00:45:02
Larry Murphy now according to the Irish American uh which is a publication and many other sources there is a prime
00:45:10
suspect in Annie's disappearance at least among the media this is the convicted rapist and attempted murderer
00:45:18
Larry Murphy age 35 known in the press as the Beast of bolting glass car really bad names in this case he's a well
00:45:29
they're referring to towns and Villages uh car he's a carpenter and handyman at one time he was living in Wicklow County
00:45:39
in 2000 and apparently had no criminal record when he abducted and repeatedly raped a 28-year-old woman who was
00:45:49
walking alone in a parking lot after closing down her business he was stalking this woman
00:45:56
watched her routines he hid his car nearby so he wouldn't be seen on camera he's waiting there for her and as
00:46:08
she goes to get into her vehicle he shoved her inside tied her up removed her shoes and drove to his car where he
00:46:18
transferred the victim to his trunk and drove off with her he drove her to a remote Forest Road
00:46:25
in the Wicklow mountains where he's attacking her and raping her and it looks like he's about
00:46:33
to kill her but the headlights of another vehicle suddenly shine on his vehicle inside we have two Hunters their
00:46:42
names are Trevor Moody and Ken Jones they saw that this woman is being attacked and they go to try to rescue
00:46:51
the woman to which Larry fled but the woman survived and was able to later describe him and furthermore one of the
00:46:58
hunters Trevor knew Larry's name it was somebody he knew it turned out that Larry had a history of violence toward
00:47:06
women including one whom he had tried to strangle but these incidents had never been reported and Trevor had encountered
00:47:15
Murphy in a pub just a week before this where a female friend told Trevor that Murphy was frightening and creepy yeah
00:47:24
when gardi showed up at Murphy's home after the rape and attempted murder his wife asked what was going on and the
00:47:33
guardi to which I'm sorry Murphy responds I raped a girl last night Larry was arrested convicted and sentenced to
00:47:42
15 years however he only served 10 years and was released in 2010 moving around Europe until he was
00:47:49
inevitably recognized and then moving on he was living in the Netherlands with another convicted rapist when the media
00:47:57
tracked him down and so he moved on again apparently sightings of him even false ones by residents of various small
00:48:05
towns have caused near Mass hysteria because of Murphy's Connection in the eyes of the public to
00:48:12
the missing women It is believed that he has returned to Ireland at some point and is living somewhere with his head
00:48:20
down and unbeknownst to his neighbors now Murphy is considered to be a very very serious suspect for Annie's
00:48:29
disappearance as well as some of the others by the Irish press at least for a few reasons
00:48:36
one it it it seems that he was living in the area at the time two his known motive was to abduct rape and aixi young
00:48:47
women walking alone in day time committing his heinous acts in the Wicklow mountains where it is believed
00:48:54
that Annie Poss possibly was heading on that day in question right Murphy fits the description of the man allegedly
00:49:01
seen with Annie at the pub he has been described as having boy next door looks also Murphy made some comments during
00:49:11
his interrogation that betrayed the fact that he had likely done this before when
00:49:17
being questioned about the young woman he was eventually convicted of attacking he says quote well she's alive isn't she
00:49:26
she was lucky this this almost giving off the impression like there might be others
00:49:34
that have not gone away scenario where you have a bunch of people going missing stops yeah so that's why a lot of people
00:49:42
believe that he's connected to more of these cases and like you said I I think you can you say all eight are
00:49:50
connected or all 15 are connected I think that would be irresponsible but our hand handful of them connected very
00:49:56
possibly and is is Murphy responsible for those for maybe three of these yeah very possible it seems like he's a
00:50:03
serious serious suspect in the Deedra deerra case as well um something like later many many years later they found
00:50:15
his phone number was believed to be in the possession of dearra right at the time that she went
00:50:23
missing but of course you know you can't put these things together at the time uh
00:50:27
this was not figured out until much much later so he's a serious person to consider not only in Annie's but in two
00:50:35
other cases as well uh the FBI profilers do say Larry fit the the profile of the
00:50:42
probable person responsible for possibly even several of these unexplained disappearances I do want to go a step
00:50:49
further though here because we say he resembles the description of the man at at the pub I don't believe so we also
00:50:57
say that he fits the the FBI profilers profile of the probable person right both of those scenarios a lot of people
00:51:07
fit both of those the description and the profile yeah but if you look at the sketch they made and you look a picture
00:51:14
a picture of Murphy that's not the same person not saying that the sketch is correct I'm just saying I don't if I
00:51:21
think if you compare the sketch to a picture um it's not the same guy when this dude was in lockup the beast when
00:51:29
he was in lockup uh apparently he told some other guy that he did Kill Deedra Jacob right that he lured her into his
00:51:40
car and killed her but I do want to point out the guy that comes forward and says hey he told me this this is also
00:51:47
another convicted murderer so I think it's easier to believe that person on Reddit who says that taxi cabs were not
00:51:54
that common back in 1993 in this area than to believe somebody who we know has murdered somebody U but it's a
00:52:02
possibility sometimes these guys get locked up they get behind bars and they start trading War Stories so to speak
00:52:08
and um even in some ways living out a little bit of a Fantasy by telling these stories or hearing these
00:52:17
stories before we move on here Captain I think it's important to point out that our expert that we keep referring to and
00:52:25
expert is the perfect word for this gentleman Alan Bailey he says he does not agree that Murphy should be named as
00:52:35
a suspect in all three of the cases that we keep referencing this is Annie deardra and JoJo's case he told the
00:52:44
Wicklow voice quote it's dangerous to name him as a suspect if we say that Larry Murphy did this then people tend
00:52:52
to exclude other possibilities end quote I think that's just responsible I what he's not saying please do not hear what
00:53:01
he's not saying what he's not saying is that he that Murphy is not a suspect he's saying it's dangerous to say he's a
00:53:08
serial killer and we believe him to be responsible for X Y and Z right and then therefore we're not doing our due
00:53:16
diligence and we're we're automatically ruling out other possibilities yeah and another person that has kind of been
00:53:23
brought up in the spotlight as as far as the missing girls all eight or all 15 is
00:53:30
this guy Mark Hennessy because he killed a lady in similar fashion Justine Valdez MH and I believe he ended up
00:53:41
they're some people call it suicide by cop right because he was killed he was a father of two and going out in the blaze
00:53:50
of glory he was found meeting these girls on Tinder and but what happens is he looks pretty old but he's 40 so if
00:54:01
you do the math at in 1993 he would have been 15 so if we believe that Annie went to
00:54:09
this bar if we believe that at all we have her being reported by seeing with a guy that's 20 late 20 in his 20s
00:54:19
yeah and yes this guy he's 40 and he's bald and and could he have been prematured bald possibly but it's just
00:54:30
one of those things that Mark was in the news and it was a similar crime and so then people to sell newspapers go well
00:54:37
we let's bring this guy up and talk about the eight missing girls yeah and I mean if he's 15 that
00:54:44
doesn't you know doesn't rule him out inside the realm of of serial killers uh 15 is certainly an age that that killing
00:54:54
can start it's rare it's very rare but I think where I have a little bit of an issue with it would be more so the
00:55:02
fact of the it seems like if he was responsible for Annie's disappearance and then he
00:55:09
murders in 2018 that there would have been other things that he would have done between that big gap in time well
00:55:16
he got married and had two kids that's true maybe he he was busy with that right but it's also weird because the
00:55:21
outcome it's almost like once he knew he was going to get caught I can't live anymore take my life and so some people
00:55:29
point that to evidence that he killed more than one person he was responsible for more things and that's why he wanted
00:55:35
to die I I just don't see it fitting and again I can't rule out the fact that somebody else came forward to say we
00:55:46
helped bury Annie's body right and that really sticks with me as some like I said you have to come forward and claim
00:55:55
that you did something wrong and you're putting yourself in there's consequences
00:55:59
for that so if they would have done their due diligence if they would have followed this lead if they would have
00:56:05
got the guy maybe he's in America somewhere doing the same same [ __ ] for all we know but it's like if they would
00:56:14
have got the guy that guy that came forward he's going to get in trouble for something too and that's why I put a
00:56:20
little bit of weight onto what he says I also put some weight into what the bouncer says because I feel like there's
00:56:26
a conviction in what he's saying like I didn't know Annie but once I saw her that she went missing I know
00:56:34
that that's the girl I saw that night and he's been very adamant about it and he has not changed his
00:56:40
story now one thing we've seen multiple times in these types of cases unfortunately is what happens here the
00:56:47
mcck divorced about 5 years after their daughter disappeared in Ireland Annie's Father John died died
00:56:55
not too long after that never knowing what became of his daughter Nancy mccarrick is resigned to the idea that
00:57:05
Annie is dead and she has spoken many times of wanting to have her daughter back at least a grave to visit she told
00:57:14
the Irish son quote I'm pretty sure I'll never see her again my greatest wish would be to be able to take her home to
00:57:23
find out what happened really would be a gift at this point end quote in 2010 Nancy mccarrick was awarded a death
00:57:31
certificate for Annie after court proceedings she brought to have her daughter legally declared dead yeah that
00:57:40
same year a friend and colleague of Annie uh Marissa Mackle wrote an oped piece for the heral newspaper about the
00:57:50
release of Larry Murphy she writes of her or that a rapist and attempted murderer a suspect in many abductions
00:58:00
someone who has refused any kind of therapy and prison and who expressed No Remorse for his crimes was being allowed
00:58:07
to go scottf free she laments that Annie was confident and Brash but was also naive and trusting often walking home
00:58:16
alone at night after her shift she writes that Annie told her of her love for Ireland and her conviction
00:58:25
that she that the lovely country was safer than her own the irony did not escape
00:58:33
the writer in 2012 Larry Murphy appeared in a rare TV interview on Irish TV 3's show midweek he denied his involvement
00:58:45
in any of the missing women cases and maintain that if the Garde had any evidence connecting him to the cases he
00:58:53
would have been arrested the woman he raped but who managed to escape thanks to the
00:59:01
hunters invited those two men to her wedding 2 years later after her ordeal thanking them on her special day for
00:59:08
saving her life according to a write up for the Irish TV show cracking crime there is a commonly held belief that
00:59:18
Annie is buried somewhere either in the Dublin area or Wicklow mountains in May of 2019 and I don't know what if
00:59:29
anything has come of this just yet Captain but I found this interesting and wanted to include it here last year the
00:59:36
independent reported that FBI profiler John Douglas reached out to the Garde to offer his help in solving the cases of
00:59:45
the missing women and again we are stuck here all these years later in Annie's case 27
00:59:53
years later and we have at least eight missing women no bodies ever recovered and the the
01:00:02
leads are short and the clues and the trail I mean these are all cold cases by this point do you have one area or one
01:00:12
theory that you lean toward or a suspect that you like I know you've referenced the the IRA thing makes the most sense
01:00:19
to me I mean you have organization that's covering up for people and and again a guy coming forward that could
01:00:26
then be charged with you know tampering with evidence could be uh moving a corpse there there's a lot of charges
01:00:35
that he could have been brought up upon and I know their systems different than ours but just because he comes forward
01:00:42
and confesses that somebody else did it doesn't mean that he wouldn't be charged
01:00:45
with a crime and again it's just look up how many accusations they have been covering up it's it's terrible well and
01:00:55
I I I find that interesting and I like that because there is weight there you know the truth of that theory is that
01:01:05
they're you know be it just a a witness or somebody implicating themselves as well as others at least that's something
01:01:13
where with everybody else that's mentioned it's pretty much speculation there's there's there's nothing carrying
01:01:21
those theories any further or those suspects any further where with with the IRA thing there is I have something my
01:01:30
thoughts my suspicions are total speculation but there's a problem a big big big problem I have with this
01:01:38
timeline and with some things that we know happened okay and if we use a little bit of our thinking caps here put
01:01:48
them on tight and try to figure this thing out I think it points in an in the opposite direction that the
01:01:54
investigation went remember once we have witnesses saying that we think we saw her on a bus
01:02:01
right so that drives the investigation all the way out to the inis Cary area and away from her town that she was
01:02:09
living in I think the highly suspicious thing here is the groceries you know she's she's a baker she's somebody that
01:02:18
is good enough at baking she's being paid by the restaurant to provide them with pies and bake goods and things like
01:02:25
that and I just think to my own life all of those refrigerated items that would have been like priority number one for
01:02:32
me in that moment to where I go I feel like something happened to stop that process that she was going about her
01:02:42
chores and her errands for the day and something abruptly interrupted all of that right and then possibly because she
01:02:51
went missing people coming forward saying they want want to help yeah and by coming forward it draws the
01:02:57
investigation away and like you said I think there's evidence not just of the grocery store items but the fact that
01:03:03
she had clothes in the washer that didn't get to the dryer um the pie on the on the countertop it all appears
01:03:12
like she's in the middle of a bunch of things at her house where she should be safe and then all of a sudden all of
01:03:18
those things those actions stop so either something drew her out of the apartment or something took her from
01:03:25
that apartment and that really Cuts this timeline in half right that really means
01:03:31
that that a lot of those things that were said to have occurred after the time that she came home did not occur
01:03:37
that those were not real sightings and also doesn't mean that the IRA story is wrong it could have just been a
01:03:44
different person but we don't have another account of a missing person that we know in that
01:03:50
area so here here's where I go with with that thought I I want to take it a step further I I
01:03:58
would love to know the you know when we talk about these cases there's always like one person in there somewhere that
01:04:04
you're like I wish I could sit down with that person and get their firsthand account so I can try to figure out if I
01:04:12
believe it to be truthful or not right or if this person's just trying to help but they don't have great information I
01:04:21
would love to talk to this colleague this person person that somewhat knew her or maybe even knew her well that
01:04:28
says that they saw her on a bus because where I remember this is the person that
01:04:35
says I saw her but we didn't speak to one another right they go on to say that that Annie was on the second level of
01:04:45
the bus this woman was on the first she never sees Annie Get Off prior to her getting off right what's missing from
01:04:53
that story is did she see Annie get on the bus because I start to call in a question if Annie's on the second level
01:05:00
and I'm on the first would I have even seen her at all right so that seems a little weird and where I want to take
01:05:07
this a step further where my suspicion immediately goes which I hope that you know when you have a cold case as we
01:05:13
said earlier you go through and you look for leads that were not properly followed up on the first lead that I
01:05:21
call into major question here and maybe it was followed up on we just do not have enough information to say so one
01:05:27
way or the other I question I'm suspicious of this Plumber guy because he is the one that says I saw her
01:05:34
leaving the complex well his statement might only be believable because later you're believing she was seen at a bus
01:05:42
stop and then she was seen on a bus if we can prove that those other sightings didn't take place why is this guy saying
01:05:50
that she left her apartment complex at this time but she left willingly and left a pie on
01:05:57
the counter wet clothes in the wash and in groceries that required Refrigeration
01:06:05
on the floor right but just because this plumber saw her leaving the complex doesn't mean she was leaving and get on
01:06:10
a bus to go on a hike so again his story could be completely true as well I'm not
01:06:17
saying that it's not I'm saying that that would be the first lead that I would want to follow up on because there
01:06:23
there's a chance he's saying he saw her leave that complex because what he needs
01:06:29
for his Alibi or to not be involved is that he needs the investigators to believe that there's a witness that saw
01:06:35
her leaving of her own free will from that area right but one of the reasons why they believe the plumber is that we
01:06:42
have the next eyewitness saying we saw her flagging down a a bus so I I don't know again I wonder I
01:06:50
true true but I already pointed out that those are unconfirmed uh sightings M it seems like they
01:06:57
believe those sightings to be real or at least one of them but again if if those
01:07:03
sightings are incorrect then that's what that really highlights the suspicion on
01:07:10
this Plumber guy because his story becomes believable because of those other later Witnesses in the timeline if
01:07:18
we can prove that something happened to her before and that she never even went to the bus stop
01:07:24
then we got to we got to draw a big circle around just that short time frame it's just a it's just like two hours
01:07:32
that we have to call in a question it's very difficult I think we both believe that when you look at all the missing
01:07:39
women's cases that 15 of them are probably not connected eight of them are probably not connected but a handful of
01:07:47
them could be um I don't know if Annie falls into that scenario or not I would argue
01:07:56
not but as far as like this Murphy guy we we have to do something with our system we have to start looking at
01:08:05
things different the these individuals these women that are assaulted and raped they're living with scars for the rest
01:08:13
of their life and we're putting such small penalties on these criminals and we know
01:08:21
that these criminals after they become a rapist they're more likely to repeat their
01:08:27
offense and we we need to do something to change that and and I was watching that show um it was a series uh
01:08:37
unbelievable and they were saying you know rape is one of the only crimes that if if you said hey officer I
01:08:46
got my bike stolen they just assume you're telling the truth it's one of the only crimes that somebody then combats
01:08:55
you and says oh you were raped oh really are you sure you're not making that up they they wouldn't do that if you said
01:09:02
my car got stolen you sure your car got stolen you know so we need to do some things to to change this and one of the
01:09:11
other things is I think if if men could feel the way women do and there was a threat to
01:09:22
us and there was a threat that I possibly could get raped leaving the house then maybe men would take it more
01:09:30
seriously and like you said when you have um they call him the Beast and they just let let him go um I I think that's
01:09:42
ridiculous well and I I don't want to get into I don't know the ins and outs of the you know the prison system in
01:09:49
Ireland but it's a dumpster fire as far as here go goes what I can say that has changed in the years is an individual
01:10:00
like that here would have served the full 15 yeah not gotten out after 10 to get out early and I don't want to say
01:10:08
never because we have seen certain situations you know everybody's so proud of the fact that that Texas is very very
01:10:17
harsh and strict on their prisoners and they're very quick to put in a a speed ramp to to get you to the execution as
01:10:25
fast as possible they they have only come to that because they learned the hard way they were letting out violent
01:10:33
criminals back in the 70s and in the 80s and 90s because of their prisons were overpopulated and at some point they're
01:10:42
let they're letting out the the guys that are nonviolent offenders and then at some point the prisons are still
01:10:48
overcrowded and they were forced to let out violent violent individuals some of them who were previous murderers some
01:10:56
who went on to murder afterwards so they learned the hard way and now we have the
01:11:01
textas that we know and love today here today what I'm getting at is if this dude the Beast this terrible guy
01:11:09
who I do believe is probably guilty of many more things I don't know if he's responsible for Annie's disappearance
01:11:16
but I believe he's guilty of other horrible acts this individual nowadays here anyway would not be let out until
01:11:23
served the full 15 if he were to get out early it would be because he did try to
01:11:29
rehabilitate himself by taking classes and therapy and so on and so forth while he was in prison for those 15 years
01:11:39
right again though with an individual like this I'd like to bring up something that John Douglas told
01:11:45
us you can't really rehabilitate someone who has never been habilitated in the first
01:11:52
place all right do we have any recommended reading for this week we do and actually
01:12:03
I have a surprise for you Mr Captain this is uh I'm really excited about this one I've not read this week's
01:12:12
recommended reading yet so if it's terrible I apologize but I don't think it's going to be I'm excited about this
01:12:19
one it just came out like a week ago it's called a true story gone at midnight the mysterious death of Alisa
01:12:28
lamb which we covered here in the garage this is by Jake Anderson and the surprise here Captain is the copy I have
01:12:37
in front of me has a note to you from Mr Anderson say very cool Captain congrats
01:12:43
to you and your team I guess that's me and all your hard work and success with the podcast I am honored to have you
01:12:52
read my work and I hope you enjoy the ride your friend Jake Anderson so go to True Crim garage.com click on our
01:13:00
recommended page and you will see this fine book along with several others on there and don't forget to check out our
01:13:07
store page as well until next week be good be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music]
01:13:26
[Applause] [Music] Angie's List is now Angie and we've heard a lot of theories about why I
01:13:43
thought it was an Eco move few your worse less paper no it was so you could say it faster no it's to be more iconic
01:13:51
must be a tech thing but those aren't quite right it's because now you can compare upfront prices book a service
01:13:57
instantly and even get your project handled from start to finish sounds easy it is and it makes us so much more than
01:14:03
just a list get started at angie.com that's ngi or download the app today