00:00:00
foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:00:45
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that would like to remind us all that flies in the Vaseline
00:00:52
we are here is the captain and the colonel would like to remind you he is half the man he used to be it's good to
00:00:59
be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend this week we are very happy to be
00:01:10
featuring raspberry Russian Ending by the good folks over at Winter Hill Brewing Company this is a 9.2 percent
00:01:18
ABV delicate Imperial Stout with raspberry this baby is dark and delicious with Rich Aromas of dark
00:01:25
chocolate and roasted malts and finishes with raspberry and caramel flavors garage grade 4 and a five bottle caps
00:01:34
and let's give some bottle caps out to our good friends who helped us out with this week's beer fun first up a nice
00:01:40
cheers to Janelle in Chicago Illinois and a big we like your jib to Elizabeth in High Point North Carolina and here's
00:01:49
a cheers to Barb from right here in Columbus Ohio and a big shout to Sean from Bakersfield and a tiny little shout
00:01:57
out to Dakota in Pueblo Colorado and last but certainly not least we have Kylie and Tulsa Oklahoma everyone we
00:02:06
just mentioned well they helped us out with this week's beer fund and for that we thank you yeah BW Double R you win
00:02:12
beer run a couple new shirts are going to be in the store this week so go check them out today and that is enough of the
00:02:22
business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
00:02:34
[Music] thank you [Music] a beautiful and beloved young woman is brutally murdered just yards from her
00:03:19
own home her battered body left behind a building like discarded rubbish surely only a sadistic experienced
00:03:28
killer could assault and strangle this bubbly popular teen in the middle of a dense City and Retreat undetected Into
00:03:36
the Night or could the killer be someone closer to her someone whom the young victim loved
00:03:44
entrusted the following is a blog post from Catherine kremen I vividly recall this day years ago when I was taking the
00:03:54
train home from work not knowing what to expect when I got there but scared out of my wits
00:04:02
somehow a nun was beside me on the train and reached out to me and helped me to pray
00:04:09
I don't know what I was praying for I just know she may have saved me from losing my mind
00:04:16
I recall every second of that day my Christine also saved me from losing my mind
00:04:22
she was my strength when I walked through the door to my home and her aunt told me Deanna was dead
00:04:30
I did not know what to do I did not know anything I felt like I was not even present
00:04:37
losing my daughter and learning how she was murdered was too difficult to believe or understand
00:04:44
I could not process it at the time as the day went on Deanna's Aunt Kathleen came over and I knew she could
00:04:51
identify with me I found strength from her thank you Kathy in case you never knew
00:04:58
it that is true it was when my brother came that I knew I was horrified he's a Vietnam veteran and I will never forget
00:05:07
talking with him and feeling literally like the floor under my feet was falling and I was falling with it
00:05:14
his presence also helped to save me from losing my mind I am so thankful to all the people who
00:05:20
came to my house to be there for me and for my family now here it is all of these years later
00:05:28
you know how I feel I'm going to solve this murder I'm going to do it soon the person who murdered my daughter
00:05:37
Deanna also severely damaged my family and ways that I cannot explain he did not destroy me
00:05:45
but he came close today I am a force to be reckoned with I believe I can get him and get him
00:05:53
without violence if he is lucky enough for that not to happen I saved him once I won't do it again
00:06:00
I just felt I would share these thoughts today I hope that every member of this group knows how grateful I am for their
00:06:08
love and kindness and continuous Support over the years there are a few people who lack
00:06:15
compassion and have been unkind and bottom line undignified and disgusting but that is on them shame on
00:06:24
them I will end it like this I have my grief and my heartbreak tucked away in a safe
00:06:30
place in my heart I have more strength than you can imagine I am so thankful for
00:06:37
your kindness there will be Justice for Deanna crimin I promise this is true crime garage and this is
00:06:46
the case of Deanna crimin foreign [Music] [Music] was born on March 26 1978. in 1995 she lived in Somerville
00:07:21
Massachusetts with her mom Catherine her stepfather Michael and her brothers and
00:07:26
sister her biological father Albert Rogers lived in New Hampshire now the state border is not far from Somerville
00:07:35
Somerville is a Blue Collar city northwest of Boston with a population of about 81
00:07:42
000 people Deanna was born in the Somerville area but the family moved to California for a short period of time
00:07:49
returning when she was nine years old they moved into a house on Jacques Street in the winter Hill Neighborhood
00:07:57
which Catherine describes as lower middle class but I think that we should clarify something when we hear Catherine
00:08:06
say lower middle class it's my understanding captain that this is kind of of a High Cost of Living area there's
00:08:14
a lot of people so the houses are in high demand and a rather expensive area to live right some people may recall
00:08:24
long time listeners of this show are trail of Blood episodes this is episode number 416 of 417 that we did back in
00:08:33
August of 2020 with the guilty party being Edward O'Brien for the murder of Janet Downing today's case takes place
00:08:43
in the same area Somerville Massachusetts and the same year 1995. Deanna was close with her sister
00:08:52
Christine who was just 17 months older than her they shared a room and bickered over clothing
00:09:00
their younger brothers were Mark 11 years younger in Albert four years younger Deanna was a junior at
00:09:07
Somerville high school she was to a certain extent a normal teenager she hung out with her friends who recall her
00:09:14
laughing all the time she loved to dance and go to the local arcade she stole cigarettes and drank beer behind the
00:09:22
dumpster that's my favorite place to drink beer that's my kind of girl in one episode her friends recount with smiles
00:09:28
Deanna and her friend cut school one day and went to Dunkin Donuts Deanna's stepfather walks into the Dunkin Donuts
00:09:36
to discover her his stepdaughter cutting school and he collected her and drove her back to school after buying his
00:09:45
coffee Deanna was also training to be a cashier at the Star Market this is around the corner from her home where
00:09:54
she had been working for a couple of months she babysat on the side for extra money but she also gave back to the
00:10:02
community volunteering at the local cable channel Somerville cable access television and working with third
00:10:09
graders at a local school as part of the early childhood development program that
00:10:15
she was enrolled in at shs her plan was to go into teaching now unlike most teens her age Deanna valued her family
00:10:25
spending time with her disabled grandmother and goofing around with her siblings she loved cats Pizza the color
00:10:32
purple and she hated being short I have here that she was listed at five foot two inches tall or five foot two inches
00:10:41
short as Deanna may say on the day that she died Deanna wrote out a list of her life goals this is one of those weird
00:10:50
things that you come across in some of these cases these weird stories where on the same day that she was killed she's
00:10:57
writing a list of life goals this was part of a school assignment her goals as she listed that day were to graduate
00:11:05
high school find a job that she enjoyed have a dark green convertible Mustang have a family a happy family and live a
00:11:15
long and healthy life well you also wonder if she wanted to go into education if she was planning on going
00:11:21
to college on the afternoon of Wednesday August 29th 1995. this is just three days before
00:11:29
Deanna's 17th birthday she and her mom found themselves on the same public bus Dana was returning to her neighborhood
00:11:37
after shopping with friends after school and Catherine was coming home from her job in Boston
00:11:43
Deanna got off the bus and went to her boyfriend Tommy's house Deanna had been dating Tommy for about
00:11:50
two years in the years past the two would meet up to do their homework in the kitchens at
00:11:57
one of their homes as they lived not too far apart Deanna's Mother Catherine tells us that Tommy was always polite
00:12:04
and quiet when the teens were at her home but this school year Tommy had already graduated from Somerville high
00:12:12
school he's 19 years old in 1995. so he's older than Deanna now Deanna's curfew was 10 p.m on school nights on
00:12:22
this night she called home and said she would be late she was going to stay and watch some TV with her boyfriend right
00:12:30
Catherine said okay come home after this show's over that you're watching Catherine says that she fell asleep on
00:12:37
the couch around midnight when she woke up she discovered that Deanna was not home so she called the pager that she
00:12:46
had gotten for Deanna for her 17th birthday she had just gave her this pager a few
00:12:51
days earlier but Deanna did not return the page yeah every time I hear the the word pager
00:12:58
it's very nostalgic and a bit silly like when I it's one of those items that seemed very important in the mid 90s and
00:13:07
seemed very cool but it's like I've completely forgotten that they even existed until I till I read some of
00:13:13
these old stories well like you said it's so pointless it's so pointless that one day I got like I don't know five or
00:13:20
six pages in a row and all I could think was it's so nice that you're telling me
00:13:25
to call you but there's no way for me to call you this item is ridiculous and I rolled it rolled down my window and
00:13:33
threw the pager out the window yeah I had one and I think I paid for a full year's plan and used it for about 30 or
00:13:40
40 days and never use the thing again now Catherine says that when she woke up she tries to page her daughter Deanna
00:13:51
never returns the call she says that she just assumed that Deanna may have stayed over at Tommy's
00:13:57
house this is something that would not be the first time that she had stayed there
00:14:04
right so she was planning on you know giving Deanna the what for when she got home you know she didn't call and ask if
00:14:13
she could stay she just called and said she would be late well I'm like look we we know her mother fell asleep on the
00:14:20
couch it's possible sometimes teenagers are watching a movie and they end up falling asleep so on Thursday March 30th
00:14:28
this is when Catherine got up to get ready for her day she discovers that Deanna's not home and
00:14:36
she says that around 7 A.M she called over to Tommy's house and said to Tommy hey put Deanna on the phone Tommy says
00:14:46
she's not here she went home last night now Catherine had to leave to go to work
00:14:52
her husband Michael Deanna's stepfather called Somerville High School remember this was a school night to make sure
00:15:00
that Deanna was at school right assuming maybe she just went to school that morning well at this point you're not
00:15:07
getting any calls back from your pages you just talked to her boyfriend he said look she went home they're going there's
00:15:15
no sign that she ever came home so at this point you're not worried about scolding her or or grounding her you're
00:15:23
just you want to make sure she's okay so you're calling where she's supposed to be Somerville High School turns out
00:15:30
she's not at school either later that day okay Michael called Catherine at work and said you better come home this
00:15:39
is her her father her stepfather yeah so around 8 A.M that morning two little girls
00:15:47
who oddly enough Deanna occasionally babysat they're walking to their Elementary
00:15:54
School they take this shortcut and they cut behind a senior citizen housing complex this is on Jacques Street
00:16:05
there they find lying near a chain-link fence on the cold ground their Babysitter's Dead Body Deanna was lying
00:16:15
on her back and she's not only dead but she's partially nude yeah this is awful I and just think what
00:16:24
these little girls minds are going through now the spokesperson for the Middlesex DA's
00:16:31
office said that Deanna died from manual strangulation someone killed her by putting their
00:16:37
hands around her throat and choking her to death it was also determined that she had been
00:16:43
sexually assaulted although how that determination was made has never been made public right but we
00:16:50
have a time frame here I mean we know that she called saying that should be home by midnight so now we have to talk
00:16:58
to the boyfriend figure out what time she left but her body's found at 8 00 am so we have roughly a eight hour time
00:17:06
period well and one thing that we do not have that I really wish that we have here because I think this would really
00:17:14
help to hone in on the best suspect available right and that would be the determination or you know police can
00:17:24
figure out detectives can often figure out usually quite easily if in fact our victim was killed where she was found
00:17:33
right was this the murder scene or was it just a dump job was she killed elsewhere and placed here that's
00:17:43
something they've never stated publicly that I could find and I would love to know that information well again this is
00:17:51
less than a block from our home a couple questions I'd have for the boyfriend's family is was there some argument that
00:17:58
night and if she was heading home how would she be heading home is she being dropped off by her boyfriend or is she
00:18:08
walking home uh do you have any clear recollection of that well her murder of course was incredibly shocking to the
00:18:17
city of Somerville this was a nice girl she's hard working she's fun everybody that knew her loved her her body was
00:18:26
dumped very close to her home as you pointed out in her own neighborhood where she should be safe this is a safe
00:18:33
area now to say that people were devastated is really an understatement here in this case over 1 000 people
00:18:40
attended Deanna's funeral her friends blasted Billy Joel's Only the Good Die Young from their cars at the funeral
00:18:49
procession that's a great song which numbered over 150 Vehicles now in our research for
00:18:55
this case we spoke at length with Catherine KREM and Deanna's mother who is still pushing for her daughter's case
00:19:01
to be solved after 25 years some of the information Catherine gave us we cannot share with you because it is being held
00:19:12
back by investigators in hopes of a successful prosecution one day but in the interest of lighting a fire under
00:19:19
prosecutors or perhaps even maybe the perpetrator themselves we're going to share a significant amount of
00:19:28
information about the case and the prime suspect after Deanna was found police scrambled to hunt down the killer of
00:19:35
this vibrant young girl they process the scene questioned her friends canvas the
00:19:41
neighborhood they did all the usual things an attempt to resolve this baffling and brutal murder
00:19:48
on April 5th police released a composite sketch of a man quote seen near the place where the body was found
00:19:57
this man was being sought as a potential witness no information was forthcoming the man in the sketch was described as
00:20:06
40 to 45 years old five foot nine to five foot eleven inches tall 165 pounds this is really kind of weird
00:20:18
and maybe a little unique here Captain because Catherine told us that later she was told that the person who described
00:20:27
this man to police made the whole thing up this was a rather misguided effort to jump start
00:20:36
the investigation and maybe flush out some suspects so does eyewitness just said
00:20:43
I I think I saw somebody that looked like this but they just made the whole damn thing up
00:20:48
that's correct that seems completely irresponsible it's very irresponsible but I think what this person was
00:20:56
attempting to do again a misguided attempt in my opinion what I believe they were attempting to
00:21:02
do was put the heat on the actual suspect making it sound like there was a witness
00:21:10
right there that could place the suspect there with the victim but it sounds like
00:21:15
this eyewitness had a suspect in their own mind could be I have no idea but what they were stating was with the
00:21:23
description of this man that this was a potential witness not necessarily a suspect composite right now as time
00:21:32
passed a week after the murder no arrests have been made and the County DA's office which has jurisdiction over
00:21:41
criminal matters in this area said publicly that they did not have a suspect but they were looking at a few
00:21:49
people the Somerville mayor at the time confirmed that there were three Persons of Interest in Deanna's murder being
00:21:57
looked at by the Somerville PD well the first has to be her boyfriend that's where she was at the night four he's the
00:22:05
last person that we think she was seen with so obviously he's on the suspect list
00:22:12
that's correct Captain the three people that they are going to be looking at and
00:22:16
who are announced by the mayor at the time were in fact one the boyfriend to a first responder and three some creepy
00:22:28
neighborhood rapist guy [Music] thank you [Music] [Music] thank you [Music] all right we're back cheers mates cheers
00:23:07
to you Colonel cheers Captain so in no particular order let's go through these three suspects suspect number one we
00:23:16
will call him Charlie the firefighter so one week after Deanna's murder a story ran in the Boston Globe saying the
00:23:26
investigators questioned a member of the Somerville fire department Indiana's death according to that paper the
00:23:33
firefighter comes from one of the city's politically influential families the article cited Victor Pike Deanna's Uncle
00:23:42
who told the media that Deanna's friends from school told the family that one of
00:23:47
the firemen at the central firehouse on Broadway had recently expressed an interest in Deanna Deanna and her
00:23:55
friends would walk by the firehouse on their way to and from school right one source told the globe that the firemen
00:24:04
have been questioned at least twice by the police department and do we know how old this fireman is well we're going to
00:24:11
get into that and that's going to add to the mystery a little bit and probably the suspicions surrounding this man now
00:24:19
Catherine her mother told us that she later found out some more information on this firefighter he was someone well
00:24:27
known to her as he had been a classmate of hers that's right the firefighter was about
00:24:35
the same age as Deanna's mother yeah find some of your own age you creep bag well so he's about twice the age of
00:24:43
Deanna but he was someone that somehow he struck up a friendship with Deanna regularly talking with her as she passed
00:24:53
by the firehouse it's called grooming now when Deanna told him that she was practicing driving to get her driver's
00:25:00
license right he offered to take her out driving in his car to teach her how to drive it is not known how many times
00:25:10
this happened or how many times they may have hung out but on one of these so-called driving
00:25:16
lessons Deanna's little brother Mark he tagged along he's sitting in the back seat he later tells his mother that he
00:25:25
saw Deanna in this firefighter kissing at some point this was in the months before she was killed
00:25:33
Catherine of course was horrified when she found this out and believes that this man behaved completely
00:25:39
inappropriately but Catherine also believes that he has been for the most part ruled out by investigators right so
00:25:47
he's not he doesn't seem to be high up on the list of suspects oh look again like I said find some of your own age
00:25:54
she's 17 years old she might think she's an adult but at that age they don't it's hard for for
00:26:02
a kid to you know whatever knowledge or sense to understand that that this individual is preying on them when
00:26:12
you're when you're interested in a girl that young when you're that old that you're becoming a predator at that point
00:26:19
yeah and as a taxpayer I would say do your damn job quit trying to pick up young girls yeah play with your own
00:26:26
goddamn hoes on your own goddamn time get back to work sir all right suspect number two we'll call him the creepy
00:26:34
rapist Guy this is a man who was considered a possible suspect this is a local Somerville man who liked to
00:26:43
befriend pretty teenage girls drive them around in his neighborhood buying them booze and cigarettes and
00:26:52
trying to get them up to his apartment I found one person online who posted the following saying that authorities were
00:27:01
looking for anyone who had information on this guy and the post says Antonio d is what this guy's name is AKA Tony
00:27:12
or AKA Vinnie no shoes all right since this guy's a proven [ __ ] bag we will use his real name this is
00:27:21
Antonio just call him uh Tony no shoes I mean that's that's the video no shoes Vinnie no shoes that's degrading enough
00:27:30
well since this guy is a proven [ __ ] bag we will use his real name this is Antonio didalto he went to prison for
00:27:38
rape in 1995. the story on him is this many people mostly females had some contact with this guy he liked to cruise
00:27:46
around Somerville and offer young girls rides right he would then coax them to his apartment where he would often times
00:27:56
ask girls to take off their shoes and jump up and down he was known to cruise the winter hill
00:28:05
Somerville area and Assembly Square Mall areas amongst others so the no shoes Vinnie no shoes comes from the
00:28:14
the weird idea that he's asking these young girls to take off their shoes I've never
00:28:21
um I've never really understood the foot fetish thing well police were desperate
00:28:26
for anyone to come forward who had information on this guy specifically so here's their plea to the public and
00:28:34
persons in Deanna's neighborhood in school do any of you know any contact Deanna may have had with this man please
00:28:42
don't be afraid to come forward we are running out of time every bit of information helps this man is an
00:28:49
extremely dangerous sex offender he is due to be released from prison in September of 2007. he has been serving
00:28:58
time for sexual assault and attempted murder since the summer of 1995. so he was active and violent in
00:29:06
the same year that Deanna was murdered yeah and we know that Deanna was sexually assaulted and she was murdered
00:29:13
this guy was charged and and put away because he raped and attempted murder so we know that this
00:29:22
guy he's a he's a [ __ ] bag but we also know that he's capable of crimes like like this and police specified that this
00:29:31
man Antonio is from Brazil although many in the neighborhood thought that he was
00:29:36
Italian but he's in the system so they should have his DNA they should be able to test it against the DNA found at the
00:29:43
crime scene possibly but then again you got to keep in mind they weren't always collecting offender's DNA different
00:29:52
states started up those programs at different times I know here in Ohio that we've only been doing that for a decade
00:30:01
maybe two at the very most so depending on when they started that up in Massachusetts he may not be in the
00:30:09
system what they were afraid of is that when they're going to let this guy out of prison in September of 2007
00:30:17
they're saying we're running out of time because they think this dude if he's guilty of other crimes
00:30:25
particularly murder that he might just flee back to his Original Country right the media
00:30:31
reported that this suspect was imprisoned in Massachusetts correctional institute uh although they I wasn't able
00:30:39
to find out much about this guy although I did locate some sources that can confirmed his 1995 conviction and the
00:30:49
scheduled release in 2007. right Catherine Deanna's mother told us that this guy was a known sex offender he's a
00:30:57
creep he prayed on teen girls although the woman that he eventually went to prison for raping was older
00:31:06
we should point that out again we don't know whether this guy was officially cleared in Diana's case but he was
00:31:13
looked at and they were asking for law enforcement was asking for more information about this guy specifically
00:31:21
if anybody knew Deanna had ever been in contact with this guy well and even though his victim was older that I don't
00:31:30
think that proves anything we have knowledge of him taking younger girls back to his apartment now suspect number
00:31:36
three is the boyfriend of course we've mentioned him several times before in this story we're calling him Tommy the
00:31:45
boyfriend yeah or AKA Tommy two shoes now Savvy True Crime devoted listeners will notice by now that we have thus far
00:31:54
largely avoided discussing this third suspect in the case right he is as you pointed out Captain
00:32:02
believed to be the last man to see Deanna alive boy the first man on investigators list or boy of course
00:32:11
anyone's going to look at Tommy the boyfriend in this case because he's the boyfriend but again because he is saying
00:32:20
he's the last person to have seen her that night and as we know Deanna was over at his house somewhat late we just
00:32:28
cannot determine what time she supposedly left on that Wednesday night the couple's normal routine this is
00:32:36
where things get really suspicious and look really bad for this guy Tommy Two Shoes their normal routine when Deanna
00:32:45
was over at his house is that after they were done hanging out he would walk her
00:32:51
all of the way to her home right and often they would sit on the front porch and hang out you know extend
00:33:00
their visit if you will on the front porch after he walked her home so what is he claiming happened that night well
00:33:07
I want to point out that his home is .6 miles from her residence not far not far
00:33:16
and again normal routine was for Tommy to walk Deanna home now Tommy says on that night on March 29th
00:33:25
he walked her half of the way home the boy's getting lazy he parted ways at the heath and bond Street's intersection
00:33:37
Deanna was found at 125 jock Street per the boston.com her body was found so close to that spot
00:33:48
it cannot be described in miles but in feet about 400 feet from where he says that he walked her to that night
00:33:57
her body is found at 8 A.M the next morning very suspicious very weird very bizarre again that's where you want
00:34:07
the information do detectives believe she was killed in the spot that she was found but since
00:34:14
this uh Tommy two shoes does he have uh any violent history uh I mean they dated
00:34:19
he said for two years as there would have to be some kind of Rumblings of uh violence against her or maybe verbal
00:34:29
abuse or something well we'll get into some of that but there doesn't seem to be really any of that again we have
00:34:36
Deanna's mother saying that she knew this kid and knew him well and there was no violence in their
00:34:45
relationship all it takes is once though right so well of course everyone finds it
00:34:51
incredibly suspicious that on the night that she happened to be killed it's the one time that he didn't walk her all the
00:35:00
way to her house does he have a reason yes he says that he and his good friend his best friend his name will will say
00:35:09
is Jason the Jason jockstrap and Tommy two shoes did the two of them ordered some food a food delivery that he wanted
00:35:19
to get back to accept the food delivery that he was he had a limited amount of time to walk her home
00:35:26
now now his his friend didn't walk with them no that's correct and this friend Jason lived very close to Tommy's house
00:35:36
this is the weird part so he has an alibi right he has his friend Jason who says yes that's what happened he shows
00:35:45
up at my house we ordered some food and by the way they even have the receipt to
00:35:50
show that to investigators look you probably don't know the details on which direction the friend lived in but
00:35:57
you're talking what do you say 400 feet from where he left her you'd think if this guy lived in the vicinity and he's
00:36:06
waiting for his friend to show up that he would have heard some Rumblings well no the friend lived near Tommy's
00:36:13
house right so 0.6 miles away is Deanna's home the friend Jason his home backed up to
00:36:23
the back of Tommy's house right so he's still close still a little more than a quarter mile that's
00:36:30
not that far you think you'd hear something and also well I don't think she was killed there is what I think
00:36:37
went went down I think that this is a bit of a manufactured uh Alibi but but we can get
00:36:45
into that I want to go through what Catherine her mother says because she believes that maybe Deanna
00:36:53
was going to break up with Tommy and maybe even break up with him that night so she could start dating the Old
00:37:01
firefighter well Krusty yeah that could be who knows but she says that at the time you know before Deanna was killed
00:37:10
she didn't see any of this but later seemed to be able to piece this together she thought that she later learned that
00:37:21
Tommy seemed to be very possessive of her daughter this is because Catherine found a bunch
00:37:27
of letters that Tommy wrote to Deanna which she says shows some very strong indicators of this possessive Behavior
00:37:36
almost to the point which she says she called it being obsessive now after Deanna died Tommy's best friend Jason
00:37:45
told Catherine that anytime Deanna left the room even to just go to the bathroom
00:37:51
or to get a drink right Tommy would really kind of give it to her you know asking her where she was going really
00:37:59
kind of overbearing stuff like ponytail Derek again there were no signs of violence in this relationship although
00:38:07
there was one time that Catherine later recalled when Tommy could not find Deanna that he showed up at her home
00:38:14
and he's he's like clutching the doorway you know and very angrily asking and demanding to know where Dina Deanna was
00:38:25
well yeah hold on a second let's let's not throw this guy completely under the bus because if there's rumors
00:38:33
or some Rumblings that she is doing some driving lessons with this older firefighter so who knows what kind
00:38:42
of stories that she was telling him so he might have heard oh well I just saw your girlfriend in a car with an older
00:38:49
man you know and and she's not answering her pager or something I can see why that would be upsetting to a 19 year old
00:38:57
boy well and I mean you got to keep in mind they were together for about two years so
00:39:04
that that situation does not have to go along with the firefighter situation no it doesn't I'm just saying that we we do
00:39:14
have uh people saying that she was taking these driving lessons and making out with this older firefighter during
00:39:22
the time that they were dating right and that's what one thing that Catherine points out that
00:39:27
that either she believes either Deanna was going to break up with Tommy that night
00:39:36
or maybe they had a fight that night and it could really be about anything but possibly about the firefighter situation
00:39:45
question for you uh what time does Tommy Two Shoes call his buddy to set up this hey after I drop off my
00:39:56
girlfriend then I'll hang out at your house that's some information that I do not have the
00:40:03
detectives would have that information as again he did provide a receipt for this food delivery
00:40:11
so they would have that time and and know that timeline I do not have that information it seems pretty late for
00:40:18
food delivery yeah I'm it's a busy area I would imagine you could get food delivered at 11 12 o'clock again it was
00:40:25
also a school night so it's not like the weekend so less things were probably open it's also in the 90s just less yeah
00:40:33
but that means open in general you always talk about the 90s like it's 100 years ago I you get I remember getting
00:40:40
quite a while ago it was right it's 25 years ago 26 years ago I can remember getting food delivered at 11 12 o'clock
00:40:48
on a on a weeknight but the Catherine goes on to say that Deanna would have had multiple reasons she believes for
00:40:57
breaking up with Tommy that they you know it's kind of young love right you grow up and you kind of grow apart and
00:41:06
they didn't really share the same circle of friends Deanna was getting older and
00:41:11
and Tommy was they had different personalities Catherine describes Deanna as happy-go-lucky while Tommy is
00:41:21
described as a bit of a black cloud you know if they were in a group situation he wouldn't get involved he would kind
00:41:28
of sit off to himself well and also when you have a a relationship where one is in high school and one is not
00:41:37
normally the one that's not in high school doesn't want to do the high school stuff homecoming I don't want to
00:41:44
go to that prom I don't want to go to that I'm too cool for that I'm too old for that I've been there done that and
00:41:50
what is a girl in high school wanted what does she want to do she wants to go to all those events and be around her
00:41:56
friends in the weeks and the months after the murder Tommy behaved somewhat strangely
00:42:02
um for someone who professed to love Deanna he didn't seem to act that way after her death he did attend the
00:42:11
funeral he was quite attentive to Catherine at the funeral but he did not participate
00:42:18
in any of the memorials or vigils dedicated to Deanna when Catherine went over to try to talk
00:42:27
to him this would be about three weeks after Deanna's murder she wanted to get some clear-cut answers
00:42:34
to some questions she had about what happened that night from Tommy right she says that he acted terrified when
00:42:43
Catherine talked about the case uh asking him questions and she told him that night that she thought that the
00:42:51
case would be solved very soon and he seemed to be very terrified at this statement right it's almost like a she
00:43:00
hit a nerve he's been somewhat Cooperative with the police okay so he did lawyer up I don't I'm not going to
00:43:09
fault anyone for getting an attorney it's the responsible thing to do right but he very quickly put him itself in a
00:43:18
situation where he's not talking to police or detectives unless his attorney is there he's got the the lawyer wall
00:43:27
between law enforcement and himself he has refused to take a lie detector test which again yeah I'm not going to fault
00:43:36
anybody for that I don't know that I would ever agree to take one well we look what we've said about lie detector
00:43:42
tests is there's normally three results that you passed or you're deceptive or it's inconclusive so two of the three
00:43:53
results are negative well and if you're innocent there's really no upside to to the test at all
00:44:02
for you so this is the weird thing though he and Jason both pled the fifth at a grand jury inquiry into the murder
00:44:16
so they both refused to answer questions on the grounds that they might incriminate themselves right they said
00:44:24
shady is they said this had to do with they knew a small time drug dealer and that they were that the
00:44:34
questions would have led to information about that situation right and they didn't want to incriminate themselves in
00:44:43
Breaking the Law in that manner that it didn't have anything to do with the murder but again one thing that I
00:44:51
always tell people and that I always point to especially in this type of case where
00:44:58
look the mayor says we got three suspects that we're looking at Tommy he looks better than the other two
00:45:05
in my opinion the creepy rapist guy yeah we know him to be violent and he's he's
00:45:10
a despicable human being but we don't even know if there was any contact between the two of them if they did they
00:45:19
even know each other at all yeah yeah or I mean I guess he could have tried to pick her up that night but still again
00:45:25
with Tommy we we know that they knew each other well yeah we know that the spouse is usually uh a good suspect and
00:45:34
two he's he's already he has two shoes known to have been with the victim a short period of time before her murder
00:45:42
yeah and then the alteration of the stories I mean not that he is changing it but
00:45:49
it's kind of strange that you didn't walk her home that night you normally walk her home it wasn't even like it was
00:45:54
that much further along and then they find her body like you said 400 feet from from where he claims they parted
00:46:04
and then this weird hangout and look look I know the 90s was not a hundred years ago
00:46:14
not that odd for a 19 year old to be going to hang out with his buddy I also question what is his buddy doing uh how
00:46:23
old was his buddy was it buddy living with parents do those parents work regular chefs
00:46:29
it's pretty late to be look if I if I had a 19 year old kid and his buddy stopped by on a school night a
00:46:38
night that I had to work after midnight in the ordered food to me that's a little late too late
00:46:44
maybe I'm an old curmudgeon but I'm just saying I think that's a little too late
00:46:48
it's Fourth meal now two months after Deanna was killed Tommy's own mother was granted a restraining order against
00:46:59
her son this is part of the Boston Globe Tommy's mom sought protection in court from her
00:47:06
son Tommy aged 19 at that time who was one of about 100 people who were questioned by police investigating
00:47:14
Deanna's murder a family friend told the reporter that the restraining order was
00:47:20
not related to Deanna's case she would say only that Tommy had threatened his mom who he was living
00:47:28
with at the time now hold on it's it's related in the sense that it shows his character
00:47:36
this guy is going to be abusive towards women his own mother so it's not that far of a cry to think
00:47:45
that this guy would be abusive towards his own girlfriend yes so this is again per the article quote things had been
00:47:51
going on in the house that did not make her very comfortable meaning the mother he meaning Tommy has a pretty bad temper
00:47:58
but he never hurt her the problems had been exacerbated by his mood swings following his girlfriend's killing
00:48:06
according to the article his mother who had some health issues was eager for Tommy to get the help she believed that
00:48:13
he needed so Tommy moved out of the house and this is when he moves in with his friend Jason
00:48:19
before going on to live at another place uh with his uncle which is in another part of the state of Massachusetts
00:48:29
based on all of these behaviors and actions plus additional information that she was told by authorities and
00:48:35
confidence Catherine kremen has stated overtly that although she initially didn't want to believe it she now thinks
00:48:43
that Tommy was responsible for what happened to Deanna she believes that the authorities came to this same conclusion
00:48:51
but they've not been able to get enough evidence to put forth charges or they've just not it won't be that hard
00:49:01
to get his DNA not done a great job on the investigation I mean she could even hire a a pi to get
00:49:10
a sample of his DNA the problem is he's the boyfriend though because if if it's sexual assault
00:49:18
that's why I pointed out that I don't know how they arrived at that determination right it would be
00:49:25
important to the case to know more about that aspect of the crime as well as the
00:49:31
crime scene itself if she was believed to have been killed in that location or at that location because with the sexual
00:49:39
assault if you find someone else's DNA in regards to the sexual assault that gives you a suspect a murder
00:49:50
suspect if you find Tommy's DNA well we know that they were boyfriend girlfriend they had a long-term
00:49:59
relationship she was at his house that night it can be explained away yeah but he doesn't have to be the killer to be
00:50:07
you know he doesn't have to be a rapist and a killer in her situ in this situation he could simply be the
00:50:13
boyfriend in the killer again if I'm if I'm the mother I'm the father I if I'm a family friend or just a
00:50:22
friend I'm hiring a private investigator I'm getting his DNA I'm having it tested
00:50:26
or getting at least two police to say look here's his DNA because what police have is the records
00:50:34
of actually talking to Tommy and maybe Tommy said hey we uh yeah we made out and stuff but no no we
00:50:41
didn't have sex that night we don't know what he has answered uh in the interviews with police
00:50:49
now unfortunately after Deanna's murder Catherine's marriage to Michael kremen fell apart you know we've seen this time
00:50:56
and time again in these cases where bereaved parents are dealing with their grief in different ways
00:51:03
Catherine descended into alcoholism she lost her job at the accounting department she lost her house
00:51:11
and she temporarily lost custody of two of her three other kids uh two of them were minors at this time it took years
00:51:21
for her to pull herself back together Deanna's Sister Christine had to step in and act as a parental figure
00:51:30
as a parental figure to her two little brothers for some time she said to boston.com quote my mother and father
00:51:38
both fell apart I had to be the mother to my two brothers at 18 years old I'm gonna applaud her
00:51:46
effort and her love towards her family she said that it it she said that it wasn't Deanna dying it
00:51:54
was like my whole family pretty much died devastated by the loss of Deanna and the
00:52:02
disintegration of the family Michael kremen died in 2008 at the age of just 58. wow and it stated
00:52:12
quote he truly died a Broken Man over the loss of Deanna it destroyed him and tragically Deanna's Sister Christine
00:52:20
died at the age of 40 in 2017 without ever seeing her sister's case solved yeah again this is a tough one I mean
00:52:29
you would think that again with the three suspects it's hard to know where the the local creep is
00:52:37
but look if this guy as a rapist and an attempted murderer it's probably just going to get worse
00:52:44
and worse for him as far as the crimes and he might possibly be back in jail right now for all we know is it worse
00:52:53
for parents of a murdered child to feel that nothing is happening in the investigation that no one is really
00:53:01
working on the case or is it worse if parents are continually told that there is hope
00:53:08
that there is movement on the case only to have their hopes dashed over and over
00:53:15
again because the latter is what has happened for Catherine kremen authorities keep dangling a resolution
00:53:23
and then it fails to materialize yeah and and we've seen that like within the Delphi murders it seems like they keep
00:53:33
saying hey we're we're one piece away well you've been saying that for years so maybe maybe you're more than one
00:53:41
piece away uh you know I don't know it's it's very difficult because it's same way with like missing person cases I
00:53:49
used to fault the family for not wanting to get heavily involved but then you've
00:53:55
seen families that get heavily involved in a case and then they get railroaded so the more we do this the more on a
00:54:04
case-by-case basis the family the individual has to decide what's correct for them and it's just it's such a
00:54:13
tragic thing to see and again I love how they describe her they don't describe her as perfect but she was perfect to
00:54:19
them with all her flaws she was perfect to them and to see how much this can crush a family and alter
00:54:27
so many people's lives it's it's it's sad and it's pathetic and it's and it's also pathetic
00:54:35
that we live in a society where just because you're female that puts a motive on your back
00:54:44
for murder or rape or whatever I mean it's pathetic I guess I guess having hope is not a bad thing if you're going to
00:54:54
dive into the case doing as much research as you can uh and collecting your own evidence listening to the cops
00:55:02
I think is important but doing your own research and your own investigation would be important as well
00:55:08
well I want to go through some of the timeline of things that have taken place since the murder so
00:55:16
on the 10th anniversary if you will of Deanna's murder the Boston Globe article a Boston Globe article ran that said
00:55:24
Authority said yesterday they are closer than they have ever been to finding the
00:55:29
person who killed Deanna the Middlesex District Attorney's office said that the new forensic technology has helped
00:55:37
authorities make progress in the case and that investigators are looking for specific people who they believe know
00:55:45
what happened in the last couple of months we believe we've made some developments on the forensic front this
00:55:52
was said by the district attorney however the district attorney declined to provide specific details right but
00:56:01
did say we do believe that a person or people know about this murder and may have seen
00:56:08
this murder and we urge them to come forward this article goes on to quote Catherine and says I believe I know who
00:56:17
is the person responsible but I am not allowed to talk about it I don't want to hurt the investigation
00:56:25
so that was in 2005 but nothing happened no charges no arrest all that happened was that six different district
00:56:33
attorneys have since been in office over the years and every time that a new one
00:56:41
comes in the investigation gets a bump gets hyped up a little bit right and then nothing ever really happens in 2009
00:56:52
the new district attorney stated that the murder would be solved but law enforcement needed Witnesses who had
00:56:58
remained silent to come forward again nothing did the new district attorney come forward and say it's going to take
00:57:04
another six District Attorneys to get this thing solved well six more years passed and in 2015 another article ran
00:57:12
in the Boston Herald this time saying that the case is still an open and very active investigation
00:57:18
the district attorney at that time added that within the past six months let's just say there's been some advances in
00:57:26
the case but would not comment further around that same time boston.com contained the following information
00:57:35
evidence is being reanalyzed using forensic technology that didn't exist 20 years ago this according to the district
00:57:43
attorney this continues to be a very active investigation but the family has heard
00:57:49
this obviously before and it's just frustrating that they keep being told that this is going to be solved and that
00:58:01
they're going to get some action here and some results and it just doesn't seem to be going anywhere well the thing
00:58:10
is and and we know this as as time goes on that technology gets better and this is definitely a field of Technology we
00:58:18
need smart individuals that are passionate about solving crimes to get involved in the Sciences Behind These
00:58:26
and we're going to start seeing hundreds of cold cases solved because of new technology and it's just pathetic that
00:58:33
there is there's some scumbag piece of [ __ ] out there that's been out there living a free life while this family
00:58:41
suffers well and I think the situation that they're really looking for here look that's what they have to say kind
00:58:48
of publicly hey we're making some movement on this case it's really heating up we're going to solve this
00:58:54
thing soon but notice every time they say that they are asking for witnesses to come forward right well it's almost
00:59:03
an excuse to get it back in the papers or on the news to say that there's we've made some movement right on this case is
00:59:11
it really just you're just throwing that out there because you're reminding the public that this murder happened that
00:59:17
this young girl who had a big bright future ahead of her was killed in a very violent way in personal way in my
00:59:25
opinion and we need witnesses to come forward we need people to tell us that person a was not where they say they
00:59:35
were that night person a did not do what they said they did that night yeah that
00:59:40
could be as simple as the boyfriend's friend coming forward and saying hey story didn't go down the way he said it
00:59:48
did there was some information that came out in 2017 and I'm not going to I'm not going to go through the full
00:59:57
story because at first I thought this was really something here in this case it made some sense when I first started
01:00:04
looking at it there was information that came out that said that it was a cover-up at the time
01:00:09
that the the whole thing was covered up by the mayor's office in 1995 that they were investigating someone that was
01:00:18
somehow connected to powerful people and that the mayor the office may have covered it up somehow the reason why I
01:00:27
don't want to stay on this very long is because Deanna's family does not believe
01:00:32
that that is in any way true at all and I think that the thing that we can cite here is the Somerville mayor at the time
01:00:43
publicly stated that the police department was looking at three suspects and Deanna's mother says that the mayor
01:00:51
at the time back in 95 has been one of the most supportive people in this entire case supportive throughout the
01:01:00
the years right uh over and over again so right but to cover something up you need to be extra supportive if if she
01:01:09
doesn't believe it if the family doesn't believe it I don't believe it I don't know that this is any credible
01:01:14
information at all again the the problem with any type of cover-up is a lot of these people get into positions where
01:01:24
they're trying to serve the community they get in those positions because they're good people that want to make a
01:01:28
difference so for those people to just turn a blind eye to this 17 year old child being murdered
01:01:37
you have to be a A Low Down pile of scum to to do that I'm not saying that cover-ups don't happen I'm just saying
01:01:47
that it's normally where this whole institution is turning a blind eye or this whole organization or you know
01:01:55
sometimes people go oh well it's a cover-up by the police department so you're telling me
01:02:00
20 good people are turning a blind eye to a murder uh it normally just doesn't line up or
01:02:07
add up it seems like Deanna's family believes that it's generally known who killed Deanna but that the case is
01:02:16
stalled because of a lack of evidence or at least that's what they've been told by the district attorney
01:02:23
now whether or not a prosecution could be successful based on what they have or what we've seen that's been
01:02:30
released to the public is really just a matter of opinion you know we've seen circumstantial evidence against Tommy
01:02:38
the boyfriend the fact that he didn't walk her home the fact that he hasn't cooperated the fact that he was the last
01:02:46
person to see her that he had two but then you have to wonder what is the actual physical evidence again we want
01:02:52
to know more about the crime scene more about the evidence authorities are not saying what they have or what they do
01:02:59
not have and it has been stated however that Deanna was sexually assaulted but again it's not known how they came
01:03:10
to that conclusion so one thing that investigators are not talking about in this case is DNA
01:03:19
you know it seems to me that had they found DNA on Deanna that did not belong to Tommy the boyfriend or a family
01:03:27
member if there was stranger DNA on her then that would have been revealed at some point over the years one like you
01:03:37
said I mean you go well Tommy's her boyfriend so of course his DNA is going to be on her touch DNA is going to be on
01:03:45
her but if there's nobody else's DNA on her then Bingo well and the thing too Captain why would this not be
01:03:54
revealed because one it would help the public it might help these witnesses that you keep asking for come forward
01:04:02
and if there was stranger DNA in theory that would virtually clear Tommy from any suspicion at all when we start
01:04:11
questioning why the cops did this and why didn't they do this or why why are they coming out with more information
01:04:16
that's why you say well no [ __ ] the case hasn't been solved yeah and I I really think that we're
01:04:24
going to start learning more from this as time goes on and in cases that are not solved from the 80s cases that are
01:04:32
not solved from the 90s that law enforcement now is going to say hey we need eyewitnesses to come forward in
01:04:39
this murder case that happened over the weekend we have to come out now with information because we can't wait 10
01:04:47
years we can't wait 20 years when people move out of the area people stop talking
01:04:51
about it you again you said oh well the 90s man it's it's not that long ago it feels to me like a million years ago so
01:05:00
if you have an individual that kind of has some suspicion or maybe did see Tommy walking a little bit further with
01:05:10
his girlfriend that night than he claims he did well so much time has gone past you're
01:05:16
not going to sit around and feel guilty or bad about it you've probably moved on
01:05:21
or you probably convinced yourself that maybe you didn't see it that way you see what I'm saying so as time goes
01:05:30
on you're less likely to get a witness that is sitting around all worried about it or somebody that
01:05:38
maybe at first was scared that if it was Tommy two shoes that he's going to come after them well
01:05:47
now after 20 years maybe no contact with Tommy two shoes and they're going hey I don't feel any threat I don't feel any
01:05:55
reason for coming forward it's none of my business well I will I will try to put this in a in a
01:06:02
brighter light with a little bit of optimism here because in 2019 the district attorney announced the
01:06:10
launch of a new Cold Case unit so of course they're going to be looking at murders and cold cases in that area
01:06:19
so I think that that is a positive move especially in a case that I think is a little cold after all of these years
01:06:30
now Catherine her mother has been a fierce advocate for her daughter for her daughter's case not only has she spoken
01:06:38
publicly about the case on TV and in podcasts and in articles but she's also the administrator of the justice for
01:06:45
Deanna kremen Facebook page and has written a blog post about the case she has organized marches demonstrations
01:06:54
where she yells for justice through a megaphone and she has made it clear over and over again to Tommy that she
01:07:03
suspects him of killing her daughter she has told Tommy time and time again that
01:07:08
she will continue to be a pain in the ass until the case is solved and her only real hope in light of the failure
01:07:17
of the authorities to prosecute the case is that he may crack at some point and confess what he has done despite all the
01:07:27
challenges facing the kremen family they have done a remarkable job of managing to keep Deanna's Spirit Alive
01:07:35
for now over 25 years in 1997 they got a billboard erected in Somerville that advertised a reward for information in
01:07:46
the case the billboard is renewed annually on it appears the amount of the reward
01:07:53
which is currently seventy thousand dollars seven zero thousand dollars and the words on the billboard say quote
01:08:02
you know what you did to me how much longer must I wait please help make my time in heaven restful
01:08:11
there are trees and benches around the city that are dedicated to Deanna the Deanna kremen rewards scholarship gives
01:08:18
500 annually to a recipient in the child development program at shs where Deanna
01:08:26
was enrolled in 2013 hundreds of people gathered to observe the 18th anniversary
01:08:33
of Deanna's Murder By symbolically walking her home marching from the intersection where Tommy says he left
01:08:41
her to the family's home Catherine now has three grandchildren her granddaughter's middle name is Deanna
01:08:49
anyone with information regarding Deanna crimin's death can contact the Middlesex
01:08:54
County District Attorney's office at 617-679-6600 or the Somerville police department at 617-625-1600
01:09:09
[Music] if you need a more True Crime Garage in your ear balls check out our bonus show
01:09:24
called off the Record it's only on Stitcher premium also all of our old episodes are available everywhere
01:09:31
Spotify Apple podcast Stitcher app and now on Sirius XM app Colonel do we have any recommended reading I own a couple
01:09:42
of books from this father-daughter writing Duo this is the new book from David Myers and Elise myers-walker and
01:09:49
it's titled A murder in Amish Ohio the martyrdom of Paul koblins it's kind of weird because last week we recommended
01:09:57
Harold schechter's new book Maniac and I said he is one of the greatest True Crime historians well David Myers and
01:10:04
Elise are some of the very best crime historians when it comes to the great state of Ohio as these two unravel some
01:10:12
of Ohio's most intriguing murder cases check out their latest a murder in Amish Ohio you can find that great title and
01:10:20
many more on our recommended page at truecrime garage.com I want to thank everybody for listening and joining us
01:10:26
here in the garage until next week be good be kind and don't litter thank you foreign