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foreign [Music] foreign [Music] garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host
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Nick and with me as always is a man that just got back from having lunch with Richard Simmons he is the captain thank
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you thank you thank you for some of us it's good to be seen and it's good to see you how's our good friend old
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Richard doing well he's not happy with you Let the River Run Red Captain tonight we
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are drinking the Huntsman Red Ale by barley Mo Brewing Company garage grade four and a quarter bottle caps out of
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thank you to Michelle down in Clearwater Florida next up in Parts Unknown we have Joanne
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Facebook at True Crime garage alright that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer
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let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] this is true crime garage foreign [Music]
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foreign by all accounts the engineer did a masterful job of bringing his train to a
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stop it had taken a screaming screeching half mile by the time the engine had shuttered to
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a standstill conductor Jerry Tomlin was on the radio notifying an approaching train on a parallel track to stop
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because some boys had been run over he had also called the dispatcher have you got injuries to dispatcher asks
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no Tomlin said we've got death I'm sure we've got death they passed under us has to be dead
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[Music] [Music] foreign August 23 1987. this is a Sunday in Arkansas there's a train traveling north from
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Texarkana this train is about a mile long pulling mostly Freight but some empty cars as well the Train's headlight
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is set to the bright position the crew would later say that it was particularly dark that night
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the trains engineer this is Steven shoyer and the conductor Jerry Tomlin noticed a dark spot on the tracks now
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any debris on the tracks of course is a big concern they can see a flash of light from this
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dark spot the Train's headlights beam it must have hit something metal or something that reflected the light back
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to them when the train was approximately a hundred feet away from the dark spot engineer shoyer yelled out oh my God and
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he hit the whistle in the emergency brake at the same time this is because they could tell that there were two
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young men laying on the tracks between the rails they could also tell that there was a gun lying next to them they
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could tell that there was something covering the boys from their waist to their knees both boys were between the
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rails with their heads up against the West Rail and their feet over the East rail both were right beside each other
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and their arms and hands were at their sides their heads facing straight up and they didn't move at all the train was
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traveling approximately 55 miles an hour this would only give the crew just seconds to respond before running over
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the boys as we had said they hit the emergency brake but with the weight and the speed of the train this is going to
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take some time to bring this metal monster to a stop as they are breaking the steel wheels are they're screaming
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on the steel tracks the train cars vibrate the tracks begin to vibrate as well the whistles blowing and still the
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boys do not jerk they do not flinch they do not move a muscle now shoyer couldn't
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tell what the object was that was covering the boys but the other two men on the train Tomlin and this other guy
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his last name is Delamar both said that this item that was covering the boys from waist to knee was a tarp a pale
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green tarp I believe one of the men actually said that it looked like a boat cover and they stated that the gun was
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clearly a rifle the barrel was near one of the boys's head and the stock was mostly underneath the tarp the man
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watched as the bodies disappeared under the Train the men heard the train hit the boys one of the men explained that
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what he was used to on occasion the train would hit a dog and he said that you would hear like a thud and then you
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would hear rocks flying because if it was something that was under the train then the train was scooting the object
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along with the boys and with the gun the men felt the impact and they said it was
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very one two three you could you could feel the hit of the first boy second boy and then the gun it's hard to imagine
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what's going through these guys heads as they're hitting the bodies yeah it's I mean it's complete nightmare when the
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train hits an object one of two things usually happen so there is a scoop on the front of this train that the men
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called a cow catcher I believe this is a commonly used term so either the cow catcher will hit the item and toss the
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object violently aside or it gets sucked up under the train right and this is what happened here and the two boys's
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legs were laying on the track so what happened was the feet were actually severed by the train yes severed from
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the legs and the heads and the torsos were between the tracks so the train would have cleared the bodies and then
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rolled them under the train this is what the three men on board had heard so armed with flashlights the men get off
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of the train and they went looking for what they had hit about 35 cars back they located the first of many pieces
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that they would find right train cars yeah they spotted some dismembered toes the biggest body part that they found
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was the chest and head of the second boy the first boy was he was much more chopped up
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the police had started to arrive on the scene and they basically found parts of the gun and the body scattered along a
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quarter mile of the tracks one thing the crew members noticed very quickly was that there was
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a lot less blood than any of them had expected to see and the blood that they did see and find it was dark it wasn't
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it wasn't red it was a purplish color unlike you said they have experience with you know hitting the Train the
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train hitting a dog or a cow or a deer or something of that nature yeah and in in this area of the country too these
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are guys that were familiar with hunting um so they they knew kind of what to expect unfortunately in this situation
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that's why they were so freaked out was they knew what they were expecting to see and they were terrified going back
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there looking for that well yeah because it's on a whole different level I mean it's one thing to hit a deer but to hit
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two teenage boys the police were there at 4 40 a.m this is just about 13 minutes after the crew
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had reported the incident this fell to the jurisdiction of the Saline County Sheriff's Office
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on the scene we have Deputy Chuck talent and Lieutenant Ray Richmond who was the
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head of the Department's criminal investigation division after checking out the scene the
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officers decided that they were investigating either an accident or suicide the crew working the train
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immediately disagreed with the officers they knew that of course accidents certainly do happen around trains and
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suicides do as well but the troubling thing here is that the men saw neither boy move at all right if if it were a
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suicide they said they might be able to be talked into agreeing that one person could Brave through the terrifying
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situation of the train approaching them but none of the men would agree that two
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people could lay there and not flinch or not move a muscle as the train got closer and closer right which I I think
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I agree with them on uh I just think that's a really hard thing to even speculate also at the scene was state
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trooper Wayne lainhart of the Arkansas State Police now lanehart was concerned by what he saw at the scene but let's
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keep in mind he this is not his jurisdiction right this is the jurisdiction of the sheriff's office so
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he is at their mercy so I'm assuming that it was a the call was made and he was just in close proximity so he then
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showed up to see if they needed any assistance yeah everybody was responding to this call so this is not his case he
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is pretty much just a spectator at this point but the thing that bothered him the most was the sheriff deputy's
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disinterest and the possibility of a murder according to Leonard's training any unnatural death should be
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investigative first as a possible homicide so evidence can be preserved and the most serious possibilities
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eliminated before less serious ones are considered Leonard after having talked with the
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crew members told the deputies that he doubted the deaths were an accident right another cause for concern was the
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observations made by the emergency medical technicians arriving on the scene right the EMTs yeah they both said
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that the bodies looked more like mannequins because there was so little blood and at the impact site the blood
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that they found was really dark in color more purple than a red they didn't see any bright blood and this led them to
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believe that the blood that they were seeing was not fresh who were the two boys on the tracks that
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night and why were they there the boys were 17 year old Kevin Ives and 16 year old Don Henry and I know it's 1987 and
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there wasn't a lot of law enforcement didn't crack down on curfew as often but what is a 16 and 17 year old boy doing
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out by these train tracks I mean it's Saturday they're hanging out Saturday and then
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this happens at 4 00 a.m on Sunday yeah so it was the weekend yep well this is a
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rural area um so uh you don't see curfews really enforced a whole lot out in these parts
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but basically the boys were staying the night at Don Henry's home uh and they they got there around 12 15 a.m uh don
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lives with his parents Curtis and his stepmother Marvel Henry now the two were supposed to be staying the night at
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Don's house they had known each other about six months they have become quick friends hanging out together very often
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this was the summer time nearing the start of another school year so they were you know the two of them were
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trying to make the most of their summer what what they had left right uh Kevin had stayed at Don's Place once or twice
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before but Kevin's mother Linda was not real excited about Kevin staying there that night in fact she'd originally said
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no to the request because last time he had stayed there she didn't approve of what went down on that occasion Don's
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father had called Linda the morning after and asked if the boys were at her house right and she says she says no you
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know they they were supposed to be at at your place I don't I don't know what happened here right so they did a
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Switcheroo well what it turns out that what happened was that at some point Don had gotten an argument with his father
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Curtis uh and then after the argument the two boys went and decided to stay at another friend's house that night
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um so Curtis maybe thought that they went back to Kevin's and it turns out that that was not not the case it was
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very embarrassing when you have a friend over and you get an argument with your parents that's always like you're like
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um I'm really sorry that my mom's being a big old bee right now well I'm sure Kevin's parents would have wished that
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they would have returned to their place rather than just going through someone else yeah this unscripted place that
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they ended up um so of course Linda was reluctant to let Kevin go over there on this occasion
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but you know how it goes teenagers talk their parents into things so on that night the two had been hanging out with
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some friends they were told to be home by midnight or 12 30 at the latest so once they were back at Don's place they
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had asked Don's father Curtis if they could go out hunting this is spotlighting which is an illegal form of
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hunting plus I wouldn't think that anything would be in season at that time of year now Don was an avid Hunter so so
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he was you know this activity sounds a bit strange to me but I get the impression that this could have been a
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common thing here for him plus it doesn't sound to me as if Don's parents or at least Don's father Curtis was the
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strictest of parents right uh one some people remember what their childhood was like when when it's summertime and they
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think you know some parents get a little more loose in the summertime and I think
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that's okay well I used to be a you know have to be in by a certain time but in the summertime a lot of times my parents
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would let me pitch a tent in the backyard you know and have somebody stay over so really I wasn't totally under
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their watchful eye but spotlighting is where you go out with flashlights and a gun and when you come across some
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unfortunate animal and I don't know what they were hunting for or maybe if they were just looking for any type of
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creature out there but basically you you shine your flashlight on the animal and
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the light beam will pretty much lock up the animal like the old saying frees up like a deer in the Headlights well this
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makes the animal a very easy target so they asked Curtis if they can go out spotlighting and he says yes and that is
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the last time that the boys are known to be seen alive yeah last time that they're known to be seen Alive by any
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parents or close family members this story which has not been covered often has so many twists and turns and I dare
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say maybe one of the most interesting cases Most Fascinating cases with as many twists that you will ever hear in a
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case yeah it it it's crazy it starts off as a small town case and it could be I mean it could be huge well it starts out
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as a as a small town case that people think it's an accident or a suicide the next morning Curtis the father he gets
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up around 5 a.m and he wakes up his wife Marvel saying that that Dawn should have
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been home by now but wasn't and he tells her that he really thinks that something
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is wrong here Curtis goes out looking for the boys he knew where the boys were going to go hunt so he headed to the
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woods near the train tracks he's out driving around looking for Don and Kevin and while he's out there he passes a uh
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deputy and he slows down and he stops and he asks the deputy if they had seen two teenagers out there running around
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the deputy asked who the man was looking for and Curtis knowing that the boys were out hunting illegally he decided
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that he didn't want to name any names right you know so Curtis is going to continue on looking for the boys the
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officer also didn't say that they had found two boys on the train tracks when when Curtis had stopped to talk to him
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right after driving around for a few hours Curtis went home and he called Linda and he asked her if the boys were
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at her place and of course now she's thinking oh no not again this happened last time and why the hell can't this
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other parent keep the kids at his house right uh she asked if there was an argument uh he says no there was nothing
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like that that the boys had simply went out hunting and they must have stayed out all night uh he told Linda not to
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worry because Don had hunted often uh he was very responsible with a firearm and
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he knew the woods better than anyone Linda was beginning to get quite worried about Kevin though well and like we said
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was 16 and 17 year old and you have your little stomping grounds so it seems like
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Don one of Don's stomping grounds was these Woods and you know and and back when I was uh probably you know
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elementary school and middle school there was Woods by my house and if you took it you know if a parent came back
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looking for a kid they couldn't find their way around right but but the kids knew how to get through every inch of
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that woods around noon the phone rang again and it was Curtis uh Linda could tell by his voice that this call was
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much different than the last call he says get over here quick they've been shot and tied to the railroad tracks and
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they've been run over by the train now this might sound a little weird here but Linda of course she she's in shock
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by what she has just heard yeah obviously but she she says that she was actually somewhat relieved once she had
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a chance to kind of process what Curtis had said uh Linda was worried that the boys could have been in a car wreck you
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know that they were both young drivers at this time they both owned fast cars Don had a firebird and Kevin had a
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Camaro right uh 1987. but yeah but she said what Curtis had told her sounded so absurd that it couldn't have possibly
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happened that it couldn't be the truth right right so Linda drives over to Curtis Curtis Henry's home
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when she pulled up to the place she sees Kevin's car at the end of the driveway and this makes her feel very good uh
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she's immediately thinking that Kevin had returned to the Henry's and nobody was in a car wreck and you know all is
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good again right maybe maybe something happened and maybe they were on these tracks but they're okay now well that
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feeling quickly left her as she's getting out of the car a deputy this is Deputy Talent came out from the house
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and he asked her to come inside so we go here from from a lot of relief to very worried Curtis right in front of
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the officer tells Linda that a neighbor had told him that the boys had been shot
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they had been tied to the tracks and they've been run over by the train now the police officer he states that the
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boys yes there there had been two boys that had been run over by a train now these boys had not been positively
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identified yet and they were going to be checking dental records at the crime lab
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to figure out who these boys were right but you have no whereabouts of your two of these two teenage boys that you know
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that they went out at night you know what area they went at yeah you know they went in the woods down by the
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train tracks right and you now and they didn't come home and their vehicles are at your house so
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this is this is very Troublesome well Deputy Talent he asked Linda for a description of what Kevin was wearing
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the last time that she had seen him um she describes this and he does say that that fit with the items that they
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had found at the tracks um what led the officers to Curtis Henry's door they had found a camouflage
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baseball cap with the with a Little Rock electric logo on it this is a the electric company in the area right now
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Curtis was a superintendent with that company and Don had had one of those hats Don wanted to become an electrician
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uh just like his father after graduating from high school and that summer he had
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actually kind of Taken Don under his wing a little bit and would bring him into work with him and you know kind of
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show him the ropes a little bit to see if this was something he actually wanted to do after graduating high school so
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unfortunately this is a this is a hat that he knew that Don would have been wearing that night right so the writing
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is pretty much on the wall yeah and unfortunately the boys would soon later be positively identified as the two boys
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who had been run over by the train that night right that being Don hen me and Kevin Ives now there are still plenty of
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more weird things about that night that we haven't even got to yet the first strange thing here is remember
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that at the beginning of the show we had said that the Train's conductor had called another train that was passing on
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a parallel track and he called them telling them to stop because they had just run over some boys
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well once the officers had arrived and they began scoping out the scene the sheriffs told the other train that it
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could then continue on well this is before collecting some of the remains or looking for potential evidence of a
00:24:13
crime here right you know nothing stirs up a crime scene area like a giant train
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passing through right next the crew had said that they and this is all three of the crew members they all got the same
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feeling that the Sheriff's Office the the officers that were on the scene they said that they didn't even believe that
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any of them were looking for any clues as to what had happened first off they were obviously looking at this thing
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like it was an accident or a double suicide and not only that but the officers were overheard being told hey
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treat this as a traffic accident yeah and I'm guessing that this might have been the extent of their expertise you
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know they were probably all familiar with traffic fatalities but not very familiar with you know potential double
00:25:04
double murder scene and probably not as seen as complicated as this one this next bit is is extremely strange in
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my mind regarding the sheriffs that night uh it's like they were trying to pull the old Jedi mind trick on the
00:25:19
train crew after listening to each of the crew members statements the deputy and the lieutenant told the crew members
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that they had all been mistaken that there was no tarp covering the boys do I do not there is no trash yeah they they
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simply told the guys that they were confused by how dark it had been that night and that there was simply no tarp
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um the next thing that the sheriffs did was confusing too as well because they also seem to doubt the men's statements
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that there was a gun present with the boys right and we know from Curtis from Don's father that they were out there to
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hunt so makes a lot of sense that there would be a gun beside the boys right right and we and we know that but but
00:26:03
the officers at the scene they don't know any of that information yet but it's very strange here Captain why would
00:26:09
they when you take the the train crew statements uh and you then you're going to go out and look at the scene and and
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unfortunately have this terrible job of collecting things there why would you have any reason to doubt them without
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walking the scene yet why why would you even say that there was no tarp why would you say that there's no gun
00:26:30
um I don't even know why you would even question that when you just take their statements and not even make any
00:26:35
observations of your own until you've walked the scene well and as you're walking the scene maybe they're just
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having a hard time finding these items so therefore while I can't find it so maybe you are mistaken I mean I I don't
00:26:48
think all that stuff isn't a fear you know nefarious I think some of it is just simply well maybe you know it was
00:26:55
super dark you have this bright light come in from your train and maybe you didn't see exactly what you think you
00:27:01
saw I I can agree with that I can agree with that the train is traveling very fast it's very dark out that night these
00:27:07
men are trained though to spot things on the tracks um that is one thing that they do you
00:27:13
know right but what what a law enforcement should do is just take the statement and if the statement is a
00:27:19
little off that's okay that is the statement from that individual not a statement that you guys made in a joint
00:27:26
effort right right and and don't react to those statements until you have an opportunity to check out the scene and
00:27:32
collect evidence to you know because they're probably walking in there thinking this was an accident or this
00:27:38
was a suicide it's the only things that seem to make sense here um but it's it's weird that they have
00:27:45
this kind of preconceived notion before even really collecting evidence yeah but
00:27:49
we see this time and time again with law enforcement it's you create a narrative
00:27:54
and then you make that evidence fit your narrative instead of collecting the evidence and collecting the statements
00:28:02
and letting that create your narrative yeah and while they're walking the scene with the crew members uh they even State
00:28:10
several times you know where so where is this alleged gun where where is this so-called gun that you guys saw we have
00:28:17
law enforcement creating a narrative now we need to do autopsy on this bodies to
00:28:22
actually figure out you know that's going to point us in a direction too and this is where the first twist in this
00:28:28
story takes place we'll get to that right after this quick beer break foreign [Music]
00:28:43
[Music] [Music] we're back cheers mates yeah we have two boys that are found dead on the train
00:29:01
tracks and we do have autopsies that we need to get to but I real quickly I want
00:29:06
to go through a couple more things about that night before we get to those autopsies we had talked about the gun
00:29:13
you know that the the officers refused to believe the crew statement that there was a gun president the present that
00:29:19
they had seen one right and like we said before Curtis uh Henry Don Henry's father said they went out hunting and
00:29:28
while they're searching the crime scene they start referring to this gun as the alleged gun or the so-called gun it was
00:29:34
not until the Sheriff's Office had actually recovered pieces of a shattered 22 rifle with that they would believe
00:29:42
that there was even a gun present right so they did recover shattered pieces of a 22 rifle uh they there were no bullets
00:29:49
in it at the time there was no tarp found um I could see a tarp just getting ripped to shred threads uh you know if
00:29:58
it's covering the boys well possibly but you also have the other train that just
00:30:03
they let go and I could totally see a a tarp being trapped into a train somehow yeah and when it gets pulled along
00:30:12
you're exactly right and and not only that they're not even looking for a tarp they're refusing to believe that it it
00:30:18
exists right right but so as they're collecting evidence they they weren't looking for these things and these
00:30:23
things were scattered for about a quarter mile of track and there was also other items that were found left at the
00:30:29
track as well so the boys were the train incident took place on a Sunday well Monday morning comes and the deaths are
00:30:37
reported in the news and in the papers so people start going down to the tracks to check out the scene one group that
00:30:46
went down there they found I like to call those people Whiskers Whiskers because they're curious like a cat well
00:30:53
these people uh be careful what you wish for they went down to the track this one
00:30:58
group and they found a severed foot in the gravel that was missed by the sheriff's department right so you don't
00:31:05
believe that there is a gun you don't believe that there's a tarp you find evidence of the gun and then you'd leave
00:31:13
a foot behind yeah right I mean and like we said some of the police officers that were at
00:31:18
the scene at the time said look you have to assume that this is a homicide scene
00:31:23
and you need to do your due diligence so therefore we can get some answers and this is direct evidence to point that
00:31:32
they said well this is a suicide or accident case shut well in fact it became it became
00:31:39
well-known knowledge that the sheriff's investigators never even roped off the scene and some other people recovered
00:31:46
parts of the gun from that scene that the Sheriff's Office had missed well congratulations when they returned Don's
00:31:54
clothing to the Henry's his stepmother found a small bag of pot in his pocket so the officers had missed this entirely
00:32:04
and two days after the boys death the sheriffs they they offer a statement saying hey we haven't ruled out anything
00:32:10
except for Foul Play We ruled that out yeah in review of the investigation it was learned that the Sheriff's Office
00:32:17
spent about a week on the investigation this mostly consisted of interviews with
00:32:23
friends and classmates of the two boys most of these interviews contained the same two questions well heck most of
00:32:31
these interviews only consisted of two questions one how much drugs did the boys use and two were they suicidal
00:32:39
right and this is what makes me go Bonkers man yeah it's it's again like we said they are they have a theory and
00:32:48
then they're trying to create the narrative and we see this time and time again it's it's just it's utter Malarkey
00:32:55
yeah and usually even in an accidental death when they are an invest when they're investigating it they will
00:33:01
typically ask friends and relatives well do you know anybody that would have wanted to hurt this person right or why
00:33:06
and you know and this is not even a question that is posed to most of these people right but you're asking people
00:33:12
the same question I are they suicidal how much drugs did they use and then it creates the story amongst the people
00:33:18
that well that must be what happened here right and then and then obviously think about the family why would you be
00:33:26
why would you tell your parents why one why would you spend the night with anybody and then why would you decide to
00:33:32
oh well let's just go hunting and uh let's now let's just lay down on the tracks and again like you said you'd
00:33:38
have to have I mean you'd have to have the balls nerves of Steel Man to lay there on that track and let that happen
00:33:47
yeah well this story obviously very quickly became Big Time news all across the state of Arkansas Not only was the story
00:33:55
a parent's worst nightmare but it was a strange and horrible story all at the same time of course the rumor mill ran
00:34:03
wild and there were a lot of theories regarding the deaths being traded around dinner tables dinners at local bars and
00:34:12
you know all over the state of Arkansas one of the things that I find a little creepy about this and our longtime
00:34:19
listeners would know we we covered the Phantom killer also known as the Texarkana murders and and having the
00:34:28
train come from Texarkana adds a little bit to the creep factor for me the Sheriff's Office officially
00:34:35
seemed to be describing the deaths as an apparent accident but would not give it
00:34:40
that official title yet stating that the official cause of death would have to come from the State medical examiner's
00:34:47
office unfortunately when the deputies were speaking with the families they suggested that suicide was a more likely
00:34:54
explanation right it can coming up with your own narrative well in both sets of parents disagreed with this thought from
00:35:02
the beginning that you know there was no evidence that the boys were suicidal there was some evidence that the boys
00:35:10
had been using drugs one 1.9 grams of marijuana was found in the pocket of Kevin's genes right and not always is
00:35:18
there signs of somebody struggling with you know Suicidal Thoughts here's another strange thing to this story
00:35:25
though captain that is often not reported Kevin's father Larry Ives he was an engineer for the railroad the rap
00:35:34
out that the train was on that passed over the boys that route just months before
00:35:39
it was his route and it was just pure coincidence that that route was no longer Larry's or he
00:35:48
would have been driving the train that night right so he would have he would have been engineering the train that
00:35:54
basically you know ran over his own son the parents obviously were devastated by
00:36:01
the tragedy but they were also disappointed in the Sheriff's Office and how they handled this incident they were
00:36:07
anxiously awaiting the medical examiner's ruling on the cause of deaths and they wanted answers obviously a week
00:36:16
after the funerals the medical examiner had finished his report in a meeting with the parents was scheduled
00:36:22
when the parents arrived they were first met in the parking lot by officers from
00:36:27
the Sheriff's office there was also an officer from the Arkansas State Police there as well this was really good news
00:36:34
to the parents as they had been requesting multiple times in this short time period that the case be transferred
00:36:41
to the state police but that had not been done uh Kevin's parents brought a potential useful item with them Larry
00:36:51
and some of his friends went to the site where the boys had died when when they were there they found a large piece of
00:36:58
cardboard the piece was large enough that it could have been used to drag two bodies on it there was also a stain on
00:37:05
it and that stain could have been blood right Larry knew that the Sheriff's Office didn't have the technology or the
00:37:12
capability to properly analyze it so he wanted to bring it directly to the medical examiner's office in the parking
00:37:19
lot he showed the piece of cardboard to the state police officer and he turns it
00:37:24
over to him there we have a 16 and 17 year old and obviously they're just teenagers but they're becoming young men
00:37:31
and you know you have a lot of growth spurts at those times so we're talking about two big individuals that you know
00:37:38
now it's very possible if there was Foul Play that they were they were attacked on the train tracks because we know
00:37:44
that's where they're at but if there were attacks somewhere else and they used this piece of cardboard anybody
00:37:51
that knows it's like a sled push or something like in weightlifting yeah you can put on a ton of weight but because
00:37:58
it's on on a different surface you can drag that surface you know I mean most people can't pick up a couch but people
00:38:06
can push it around their living room yeah and unfortunately this possible piece of evidence
00:38:13
um it's not seen again after this situation he the father gives it to the state officer and he's told that it's
00:38:21
going to get where it needs to go to be examined and that just simply doesn't happen right and again the the my issue
00:38:28
is you'd have to test this to one find out if it was blood if there was blood then we can assume that this was used to
00:38:34
maybe transport the bodies but here's the other thing about it this is the thing that frustrates me is whoever used
00:38:41
if that was used to transport the bodies then there's a good likelihood that there was fingerprints on there right
00:38:48
right and and that's what frustrates me when the parents went inside to meet the
00:38:54
medical examiner this is Fami Malik is his name uh they were and his face looks exactly like the way his name sounds
00:39:02
okay uh but for me well the his face is very farmy when the parents first met Malik they found him to be weird when
00:39:12
they first arrived Malik took polaroid pictures of each parent and had asked each of them to sign forms so it was
00:39:18
official as to who was in attendance at this meeting Oh I thought you're going to say he took pictures he took polaroid
00:39:25
pictures of him then he asked him to shake it like a Polaroid picture Malik then passed out copies of His official
00:39:31
ruling the statement read something like this at 4 25 a.m August 23 1987 Kevin Ives 17 and Don Henry 16 were
00:39:42
unconscious in a deep sleep on the railroad tracks under the Psychedelic influence of THC marijuana right when a
00:39:51
trained passed over them causing their accidental deaths the parents began questioning Dr Malik
00:39:58
not really his ruling but they wanted more information because none of them had ever heard of people passing out
00:40:05
from THC right according to the parents Malik seemed very irritated at the additional questions I think that he
00:40:13
thought that they would simply hear his final ruling accept it and then leave this is very surprising to me that he
00:40:19
would not have expected questions or that he would have seemed irritated at the additional questions given his
00:40:25
amount of experience in these matters you know no one handles a sudden death well and loved ones are always left with
00:40:32
a lot of questions when someone suddenly dies especially if it's your kids and especially if the circumstances
00:40:38
surrounding those deaths are abnormal this guy has the bedside manner of a wolverine he basically states that
00:40:46
marijuana levels in the boys were extremely High drawing a line on a chalkboard he writes a large Five Below
00:40:54
the line and a 100 above it pointing to the 100 he says this is how stoned they were well you know old Captain Fami over
00:41:02
here I think part of his annoyance is that you know he's an expert in his mind and
00:41:10
he hears my findings and kind of how dare you question me yeah well of course the parents are still confused as the
00:41:18
doctor has not clearly explained this very well right uh when they ask him what kind of measurement is that Malik
00:41:24
snaps back and says it's units the parents wanted this explained to them in easier terms because marijuana was not
00:41:32
something they were familiar with they didn't know if passing out was possible or likely or or really what
00:41:39
they wanted to know how much pot the kids would have had to have smoked to achieve these high levels of THC Malik
00:41:48
never really answers that particular question right the more the parents questioned him or push him for
00:41:54
reasonable answers the more the doctor gets upset with them and at some point he holds up a large envelope stating
00:42:01
that inside are the autopsy photos and in these photos is the proof that you are looking for
00:42:08
well the parents of course they they don't want to see these photos at all right and they told him that they didn't
00:42:14
want to see these photos yeah I don't know what parent would want to see that yeah they wanted toxicology results and
00:42:22
Malik insisted that they see the photos as crazy as this whole story sounds I believe this is true because remember
00:42:28
the officers are there with the parents at this time and at this meeting yeah and we already know that they are not
00:42:35
all on the same page but one of the officers yeah just meaning that some of the officers
00:42:40
think from the get-go this should be this should have been looked at as a homicide and then some of the other ones
00:42:46
just going this is probably accidental or possibly suicide well and the officers know that the parents are
00:42:52
dissatisfied with with the officer's investigation of this incident yeah and I think the officer's Hearts would have
00:42:59
to go out to those parents and this is why this statement has to be true because one of the officers then stands
00:43:04
up at the table and this is an increasingly heated debate but he says pointing to the photos pointing to the
00:43:12
envelope he says they don't want to see those right that same officer as he begins to take his seat again he tells
00:43:20
the parents that Malik had told them that 20 joints is what the boys would have had to have smoked to to have that
00:43:27
high level of THC that you know I am not a you know pot smoker myself but I would
00:43:33
just assume that 20 joints is a is a lot of joints yes 20 joints would be a considerable amount of I mean even if
00:43:42
you just put it in like terms of like cigarettes like a normal cigarette package has 20 cigarettes in it so they
00:43:50
would have had a smoke 20 cigarettes within hours I I don't know but it sounds that way
00:43:57
because he's pointing to the 100 Mark and saying this is how Stone these guys were
00:44:03
um it seems like yeah but I would have walked up to that board and pointed to that hundred and said Mr Fami this is
00:44:09
how much of an [ __ ] you are that's that's what that 100 means well Malik he denies that he had ever told
00:44:16
the officer such a statement he says I never told the officers that it would have taken 20 joints
00:44:22
um and the officers they had reason to believe that the boys purchased a 10 bag of marijuana on one of their stops that
00:44:31
night um the the police right it's a man if you can get 20 joints out of ten dollars
00:44:37
of marijuana yeah it'd be a bad business to be in because you could you could you
00:44:42
could spend ten dollars and be good for quite some time right uh the medical examiner's findings not only seemed
00:44:48
questionable to the parents but most of the citizens of Arkansas were pretty stunned by the ruling this is according
00:44:55
to the newspapers the parents decided to seek a second opinion they hired a second pathologist to review the deaths
00:45:03
now this was a pathologist that came recommended to them uh from other physicians in the area this is Dr JT
00:45:11
Franciscan go he's located in Memphis Tennessee he was charging the parents two hundred dollars an hour and he
00:45:18
explained to them that he would preserve and test the blood of both boys and the
00:45:24
urine of Kevin they would be unable to test Don's urine because his bladder had been completely
00:45:30
destroyed right and then also the this is the first time the parents are aware that that his urine hasn't been tested
00:45:37
yeah so we're seeing some progress here for the parents they received the results from Dr Francisco
00:45:44
and he actually confirms Dr Malik's ruling he quoted the same levels of THC that Malik had reported 100 97
00:45:54
micrograms per milliliter for Kevin and 122 for Dawn okay upon further review of
00:46:02
the material sent to the parents from Dr Francisco's office they were able to determine that the results were from a
00:46:09
test of Kevin's urine only no blood from either boy or no urine from dawn were tested all right so he's agreeing with
00:46:18
you know Mr Fami yeah so they get Dr Francisco on the phone and after some debate on how he could have confirmed
00:46:27
Malek's findings with only having tested the urine of one boy the doctor then admitted that they had arrived at the
00:46:36
conclusion by inference because his lab and the Arkansas lab followed standard procedures the confirmation of one test
00:46:45
gave weight of confidence that the other findings were going to be true as well right but couldn't they just test both
00:46:51
of their bloods but they didn't that's the whole thing they were led to believe that both sets of blood would be tested
00:46:57
they didn't test any of that but they but they claimed that they can back up Malik's findings right so we have the
00:47:04
Ives family and the Henry family kind of getting [ __ ] around again in February of 1988 the parents
00:47:11
contacted members of the media to arrange for a press conference this is a brilliant idea and they arrived at this
00:47:18
plan because the longer this thing went on they were beginning to realize that the only group interested in this case
00:47:24
was the media no other group wanted to spend any time on this thing the day after the press conference the families
00:47:31
were contacted by Richard Garrett who is the district Deputy prosecuting attorney
00:47:35
Garrett wanted to help he told Linda that until he saw the press conference he had no idea that the parents of The
00:47:42
Dead Boys had been dissatisfied with the sheriff's department he was going to hold a prosecutor's hearing well what's
00:47:50
that exactly well he's hoping that they will re-examine the case but a prosecutor's hearing is not just unusual
00:47:57
they are highly unusual these are intended for only special inquiries particularly when the cause of death is
00:48:05
in dispute well here the the cause of death is definitely in in dispute I mean we have two coroners saying well they
00:48:12
they got super stoned and then they laid down on the tracks and they got ran over
00:48:16
by a train and then the parents are going well that just doesn't add up doesn't make a lot of sense to us well
00:48:23
the deputy prosecuting attorney Garrett he would introduce the families to a man
00:48:29
by the name of Dan Harmon now Dan Harmon is actually a guy that is off in a private practice he's not a prosecutor
00:48:37
but he's going to be brought in as a quote-unquote special prosecutor in this situation and he is going to make
00:48:45
arrangements because he wants to get a grand jury organized so that this case can be looked at by some fresh eyes and
00:48:52
decide if the an investigation should shift gears or if that there's a chance of a trial taking place right right so
00:49:00
basically this grand jury is going to be set up they're going to look at that evidence and they're going to decide do
00:49:06
we need to reinvestigate this case or or is it shut you know open and shut case where these guys smoke some pot and then
00:49:15
they had an accident where the train ran over them and more importantly if if the
00:49:20
the cause of death is what's in question what the big dispute is then can we get
00:49:26
you know another autopsy can we get other autopsies performed on these two bodies right and after a couple more
00:49:32
autopsies are performed I think part of it too is like you don't want the families of these you know victims
00:49:39
they're victims of at least at this point a tragic accident you don't want them to be dissatisfied with uh law
00:49:48
enforcement and the way uh the coroner or anybody else handled their loved one's case so upon further review the
00:49:57
grand jury the first thing that they're going to do is determine if this cause of death is correct and their findings
00:50:03
they're not agreeing with what Dr Malik had stated and they basically overturned
00:50:08
the cause of death as a possible accident as a likely accident to a possible homicide well once that takes
00:50:17
place they're going to need to bring in somebody to conduct a further investigation into this autopsy and take
00:50:24
a look at this thing and and see if their findings are correct right so we already have two autopsies done so this
00:50:32
is technically going to be the third autopsy done yes so this they will bring in a man by the name of Dr Burton and
00:50:39
they actually bring him in from Atlanta uh they wanted to bring in somebody that
00:50:43
had more experience and somebody with outside eyes that wasn't so privy to what was going on in the area they bring
00:50:50
in Dr Burton and what are his findings well to begin with one of the things that he found most disconcerting or most
00:50:57
important to this case is the shirt that was worn by Don Henry or allegedly worn
00:51:02
by Don Henry this is the shirt that was not on the boy's body when he was found this was found some distance away from
00:51:10
the track where the Torso and the body of Don Henry were discovered alright so don didn't have a shirt on but this
00:51:17
shirt was possibly ran over by the train yes yes this shirt as we know has a lot
00:51:23
of tears and defects in it a question that was raised as to whether these tears or defects were made by the body
00:51:29
being pulled down the track by the motion of the train over the body of the victim
00:51:34
what Burton did was he had took the shirt to a private laboratory that he had worked in in Atlanta and they took
00:51:42
one of these tears this was a tear from the lower back area of the shirt that was kind of in the area of of an injury
00:51:49
that they had found on the back of Don Henry and they took a scalpel and they cut this defect out which measured a
00:51:56
little bit over an inch in length they then took this defect and they analyzed it under a scanning electron microscope
00:52:04
which is a very powerful microscope and with this microscope they could tell whether the fabric had been torn or cut
00:52:10
with something like scissors or a knife right so what he's saying is this cut on
00:52:15
the shirt and the body was either made by scissors or a knife yeah well basically basically what he can say is
00:52:23
that the cut on the shirt it exhibited all the characteristics of something that was cut with a very sharp blade
00:52:31
um so there's there's no question as far as this being at care or anything like that as far as Dr Burton is concerned
00:52:38
also around the cut in the shirt they found evidence of blood which means which means that the the boy had
00:52:47
probably bled through some kind of injury before this shirt was removed from his body right so we're starting to
00:52:53
assume that this injury was uh pre-mortem yes yes and and here's the to kind of lay it out very quickly here of
00:53:03
Burton's concerns right first of all we have the the knife he believes a knife made this cut in the shirt second of all
00:53:10
it's majorly concerning to him that this cut matches up with it with an injury to
00:53:15
the boy's back and that more importantly that the shirt was not found on the boy's body meaning that if this was an
00:53:23
injury that was sustained by the train itself that you would expect to see you would expect to see the the shirt still
00:53:30
on the boy matching up with the injury another thing that concerned Burton was an injury found to the left cheek of
00:53:36
Kevin Ives this was an injury that he did not find consistent with any pattern that might have been made from being
00:53:43
struck by the cow catcher in front of the engine uh he explained that he sent photographs of the boy's injuries to a
00:53:51
computer enhancement specialist and he was awaiting those results so we have two things that he finds pretty God
00:53:59
yeah these are injuries that would not be consistent with with the train now the thing is once they get those results
00:54:04
back Captain he finds as well as the the Specialists that he sent them to they find that that injury to Kevin's cheek
00:54:13
is consistent with that of being struck in the face with like the butt of a gun and more specifically uh They said that
00:54:21
the gun that was found with the boys could have very likely made that injury or caused that injury it would have been
00:54:29
a similar type gun or that gun the other thing that's interesting here Captain is
00:54:34
that he would find something in both of the boys that would give him cause of concern this is the amount of congestion
00:54:43
and fluid in the lungs of both of the boys he felt that this was inconsistent with the type of injuries that one might
00:54:49
expect from someone being run over by a train when you have a sudden death occurring he feels that it's very likely
00:54:57
that the possibility exists that because there's this Con congestion and fluid in
00:55:02
the lungs that both boys were either unconscious or already dead when they were placed on those tracks they're
00:55:09
either dead or they're knocked unconscious and that's why they didn't move at all
00:55:15
and so that the train possibly did cause their death but who put them there who made them
00:55:22
unconscious another thing that he included in the autopsies as well and this is more opinion than it is fact
00:55:30
but he had agreed with the train crew members stating that he he didn't see how anyone whether they be passed out
00:55:39
from drug use or be sleeping on the tracks how they would not have you know woke up as the train was
00:55:46
getting closer and closer these rails they vibrate the the train was Extremely Loud anybody that even has ever stood
00:55:54
next to a train just on the ground you can feel the ground moving below your feet uh there was also a state trooper
00:56:01
that was involved with the uh grand jury who had gone down to the train tracks with with some other people witnessing
00:56:10
him and he timed this so that he would be arriving and he could he could do this little experiment as a train was
00:56:16
coming he laid down exactly how the boys were laying on the tracks and he jumped
00:56:22
up from the from the rails pretty quickly but he said that you know when this train was this train was still
00:56:29
quite a ways away maybe a quarter of a mile he said he felt the thing when it was like a mile and a half away from him
00:56:35
he could feel it coming down the tracks and then on top of that he said he he got terrified and to the point where he
00:56:42
says he still has a little bit of like PTSD just from from that moment experiencing that little experience he
00:56:48
was also conscious at the time correct all right so this third autopsy it brings up some questions and and it
00:56:55
seems like it's not that agreeable with the first two autopsies which I think you know causes a lot of concern I think
00:57:03
it also causes a lot of concern with the parents well as far as that second test
00:57:07
goes and let's let's call that a test rather than an autopsy because it was supposed to be a testing of the boy's
00:57:13
blood in the boy's urine um you're exactly correct thank you and and but we know that that didn't take
00:57:19
place um but not only does this point out here that the the autopsies were probably
00:57:26
wrong but now this really starts to make you question the medical examiner himself uh you know what what is he up
00:57:36
to why how would he have arrived at these conclusions uh after performing in autopsy had a significant amount of time
00:57:43
to perform these tests and he comes up with a completely different ruling than what this this other guy comes up with
00:57:51
from from Atlanta right and look then it becomes which doctor is correct well because of this whole case we have
00:57:59
a lot of interesting things come out about Malik and Malik has all these autopsies that were ruled normally
00:58:05
natural causes or accidental and because of this you know because of the parents
00:58:12
and I applaud the parents so they start in the pot and then they start going back and looking at some of his other
00:58:19
autopsies right we have a scenario where he ruled a guy we're just going to tell
00:58:24
you about some of the more Wild Ones let's call them wild and and we won't use any names because these
00:58:30
pick these particular people are only involved in this case through Malik they have really no right you know nothing to
00:58:38
do with this case but this gives you an idea of some of the shenanigans going on with
00:58:43
Fami Malek right so old Fami he you know rules this guy dies of a ulcer not a big deal right that's his ruling
00:58:53
the guy died of an ulcer and everybody actually agrees with him says Hey Malik did his job again
00:59:00
but they had people find this guy's head yeah so he was decapitated apparently that happens naturally when you have an
00:59:11
ulcer uh your head just pops off right um so once they found this severed head they realized this autopsy was
00:59:20
completely botched yeah do you want to know how he defended himself on that particular case sure so
00:59:28
um here's what happened here they they found the the dog that lived with this guy uh he actually lay dead in his home
00:59:35
for for quite some time uh the dog that lived there they recovered some of the dog's vomit and in it they found what
00:59:43
what Fami believed to be uh evidence of of human tissue of skin um so what had happened was Fami said
00:59:52
that the guy had died and he lay there for quite some time and at some point the dog uh chewed on the neck and to the
00:59:59
point of decapitating uh his owner um but of course the thing here is it was ever all the
01:00:08
evidence points to a very clean cut right of somebody killing this guy and taking off his head not the gnawing of a
01:00:16
dog uh chewing chewing up this this guy's neck right and then there's this other case where the guy this guy was
01:00:24
suicidal he he told his family about it yeah they put him in a place for treatment he wanted
01:00:32
help right he went to his family he said help me out and and do it right and it looks like he lost his battle with the
01:00:39
you know suicidal thoughts and he hung himself right and in this case Malik decides well it wasn't suicide it was
01:00:48
actually an accidental death and again it's just stuff like that where it's like and this is just three examples of
01:00:55
probably like does maybe a dozen or 20 of them out there that that are pretty well known right and so the governor at
01:01:03
this time is Bill Clinton and people are calling for this guy's job saying look we got these two boys that now we
01:01:11
believe there's good reason to believe that there was some foul play and this guy is ruling this we dug up all this
01:01:18
other stuff he's not doing his job and taxpayers are paying for that they want him to call you know they want Bill
01:01:25
Clinton to ask for his resignation right look Bill Clinton says well I I'm not really in charge of doing that that's
01:01:33
not really my thing so what do they do do they fire him do they replace him no they give him a 43 raise where this
01:01:41
leaves us now is we now have to look at these two deaths as murders okay so we need to conduct a proper murder
01:01:49
investigation and why were these things covered up and why does it seem that government officials and people with the
01:01:57
medical examiner's office in the sheriff's department they seem to not want to investigate this thing properly
01:02:03
right and at what lengths are they going to go to or what is anybody going to go
01:02:08
to to possibly cover up this murder there's so much more to get into and we're just on the first episode of this
01:02:16
yeah because if the cause of death can be overturned that brings up so many more questions okay first of all if
01:02:22
these boys were murdered why were they murdered what what happened during those four hours between the time they left
01:02:29
Don's house and the time that they're found on those tracks what occurred during those four hours did they see
01:02:36
something that they shouldn't have seen did they come across somebody that they they shouldn't have come across what
01:02:42
happened to those boys in that four hours well we have a really good idea what happened because we have a bunch of
01:02:47
eyewitness accounts and we're gonna have to get into that tomorrow yes and don't
01:02:52
forget to check out all of our old episodes they're available in the iTunes Store and on our store Page at truecrime
01:02:59
garage.com thank you guys so much for sharing this um thank you guys so much for sharing
01:03:05
um thank you guys so much for sharing it with the friends family I just got a text message a couple minutes ago saying
01:03:12
hey I told somebody about your show they don't call it true crime garage they call it the captain show the captain
01:03:18
show well imagine that isn't that special all right we'll see you guys in the garage tomorrow and
01:03:25
until then be good be kind and don't litter thank you [Music] [Applause] [Music]